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Last Jedi Question

So. Why do all the dark side users we’ve seen in the movies always have the trademark yellow eyes and pale skin denoting they are consumed with hate and pain, but Kylo Ben and Supreme Snorkel have basically no traits of dark side corruption? Big Snork even has some baby blues so I want to know what’s up.
Examples:
  • Darth Maul
    j05jb7ldn8cm.png
  • Anakin(turned Vader)
    3y7c5pnk96ec.jpeg
  • Darth Sidious
    hfadv463cbg7.jpeg
How come the sequels are so preachy about those 2(now 1) being raw evil and unchallengeable, yet they show no signs of even being a dark side practitioner?
jar-jar-binks-dancing-gif-3.gif

Replies

  • Because they aren’t consumed by the dark side like sith. Kylo and snoke both aren’t sith. Snoke even taught kylo to use both the light and dark side of the force. They may be evil but they aren’t consumed by hatred and the dark side.
  • alunguy wrote: »
    does asking these questions mean that i'm threatened by strong women like Jar Jar Abrams says?

    Has he really said that?
  • Cad_Bane
    6252 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    Quizolio wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    alunguy wrote: »
    does asking these questions mean that i'm threatened by strong women like Jar Jar Abrams says?

    Has he really said that?

    Unfortunately he did, and in doing so completely ruined any chance of me seeing Episode IX. TLJ killed my interest in IX, but JJ put the final nail in the coffin with that comment.

    http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/j-j-abrams-weighs-on-fans-who-hated-female-driven-last-jedi.html

    Personally, I wasn't 'threatened' by the TLJ for that reason, it was how pointless, pandering and low quality the plot and film was as a whole.

    Ahh great. If I didn’t not like this guy enough already.

    The arrogance of this guy. So criticisms of his film aren’t reasonable and anyone who criticizes his film must feel “threatened by the strong women in the film?”
    SMH
    Post edited by Cad_Bane on
  • Cad_Bane wrote: »
    Quizolio wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    alunguy wrote: »
    does asking these questions mean that i'm threatened by strong women like Jar Jar Abrams says?

    Has he really said that?

    Unfortunately he did, and in doing so completely ruined any chance of me seeing Episode IX. TLJ killed my interest in IX, but JJ put the final nail in the coffin with that comment.

    http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/j-j-abrams-weighs-on-fans-who-hated-female-driven-last-jedi.html

    Personally, I wasn't 'threatened' by the TLJ for that reason, it was how pointless, pandering and low quality the plot and film was as a whole.

    Ahh great. If I didn’t not like this guy enough already.

    The arrogance of this guy. So criticisms of his film aren’t reasonable and anyone who criticizes his film must feel “threatened by the strong women in the film?”
    SMH
    I hated VII, I thought he did a terrible job. Zero creativity and a terrible direction for the sequel trilogy. So no one can find Luke because he doesn’t want to be a Jedi anymore so he went to the Jedi home world? Sure. A random guy on a deserted world has a map to him? Sure. The world was the site of the largest battle since Endor and is also home to a random ultra powerful nobody girl-genius? Sure. And they brought along a moral expositional stormtrooper that holds the plans to all first order secret projects and weapons just off the top of his head? Sure? The Falcon just happens to be there and also pick up Han and Chewie on the way? Sure. A random bar on a random planet has yet another expositional person who gives Rey Anakin’s saber of all things that fell into the Bespin gas giant? Sure. Nobody Girl suddenly is a master of the force? Sure. A trained Jedi killer is beaten by a nobody genius-girl and expositional stormtrooper? Sure. A planet killing super weapon with innumerable defenses is beaten by a squadron of X-Wings again for the 3rd time in galactic history? Sure.
    Should’ve called it Episode VII: The Ex Machina Awakens
    I also hated VIII, because it only made it worse. Thanks guys for getting me out of seeing IX, didn’t know about some of that.
    The dark side eyes thing is pretty minor really, but for me it seems to break continuity with the other villains. I guess the gray stance makes sense somewhat.



    jar-jar-binks-dancing-gif-3.gif
  • WildSpace wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    Quizolio wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    alunguy wrote: »
    does asking these questions mean that i'm threatened by strong women like Jar Jar Abrams says?

    Has he really said that?

    Unfortunately he did, and in doing so completely ruined any chance of me seeing Episode IX. TLJ killed my interest in IX, but JJ put the final nail in the coffin with that comment.

    http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/j-j-abrams-weighs-on-fans-who-hated-female-driven-last-jedi.html

    Personally, I wasn't 'threatened' by the TLJ for that reason, it was how pointless, pandering and low quality the plot and film was as a whole.

    Ahh great. If I didn’t not like this guy enough already.

    The arrogance of this guy. So criticisms of his film aren’t reasonable and anyone who criticizes his film must feel “threatened by the strong women in the film?”
    SMH
    I hated VII, I thought he did a terrible job. Zero creativity and a terrible direction for the sequel trilogy. So no one can find Luke because he doesn’t want to be a Jedi anymore so he went to the Jedi home world? Sure. A random guy on a deserted world has a map to him? Sure. The world was the site of the largest battle since Endor and is also home to a random ultra powerful nobody girl-genius? Sure. And they brought along a moral expositional stormtrooper that holds the plans to all first order secret projects and weapons just off the top of his head? Sure? The Falcon just happens to be there and also pick up Han and Chewie on the way? Sure. A random bar on a random planet has yet another expositional person who gives Rey Anakin’s saber of all things that fell into the Bespin gas giant? Sure. Nobody Girl suddenly is a master of the force? Sure. A trained Jedi killer is beaten by a nobody genius-girl and expositional stormtrooper? Sure. A planet killing super weapon with innumerable defenses is beaten by a squadron of X-Wings again for the 3rd time in galactic history? Sure.
    Should’ve called it Episode VII: The Ex Machina Awakens
    I also hated VIII, because it only made it worse. Thanks guys for getting me out of seeing IX, didn’t know about some of that.
    The dark side eyes thing is pretty minor really, but for me it seems to break continuity with the other villains. I guess the gray stance makes sense somewhat.



    Great post. Lol
  • Let's not forget that Dooku was missing traditional Sith features as well.
    PSN: Trooper8059
    "Remember: Your focus determines your reality."
    ezgif_5_a643336582.gif
  • DarthJ wrote: »
    Quizolio wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    alunguy wrote: »
    does asking these questions mean that i'm threatened by strong women like Jar Jar Abrams says?

    Has he really said that?

    Unfortunately he did, and in doing so completely ruined any chance of me seeing Episode IX. TLJ killed my interest in IX, but JJ put the final nail in the coffin with that comment.

    http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/j-j-abrams-weighs-on-fans-who-hated-female-driven-last-jedi.html

    Personally, I wasn't 'threatened' by the TLJ for that reason, it was how pointless, pandering and low quality the plot and film was as a whole.

    I fear thats the route the new fandom of the ST, and the franchise killers that are kathleen and JJ/Rian, will take. 'Well if you dont like the films you must be sexist'. Yeah OK. Couple that with the 'force is female' stuff (imagine the uproar though if someone went around in a 'force is male' t shirt), and Kathleen saying that she doesnt have to cater to the male star wars fans, and its clear they have an agenda they want in the films. TLJ was the poster boy of agenda films.

    The funny thing is though, at least for me, is that I could care less on the genders of characters. If Rey actually went through stuff she would probably be really likeable. I think I'd like her. But the whole flawless thing scares everyone off her. Holdo is another who was complained about, but it was more people felt she took a place Ackbar could have had. And Rose was probably the worst character in Star Wars, suffering even more with being the main in the Canto section,which was the biggest PC promotion I have ever seen.

    Yeah, that was atrocious.
    Also, OP, whenever you post anything with the words "Last Jedi", the thread's gonna go off topic real quick (unless the thread is about how you feel about TLJ, then it's right on track lol).


    As for your question, Kylo and Snoke aren't Sith. The Sith let the Dark Side consume them, and they had a certain level of commitment to it that gave them those yellow eyes. However, Kylo and Snoke didn't practice the Dark Side like Sith did, and neither did Dooku. I always felt that Dooku was merely a Dark Jedi with Sith abilities, but never reached his full power.

    Also, it is stated that, in order to have the yellow eyes, one must be under the full effects of the Dark Side. This happened with Anakin in ROTS, where he has normal eyes before the attack on the Jedi Temple, and once he slaughtered all the Separatists, his eyes are yellow. He is under the effects of the full power of the Dark Side, just as Sidious said so. When he meets Padme, he immediately goes back to normal. And then, after Obi Wan sliced and diced him, he has his Sith eyes for pretty much the rest of his life, up until ROTJ, when Luke helps to redeem him.

    Back to the question at hand,
    Let's not forget that Dooku was missing traditional Sith features as well.

    Dooku was also very different from your average Sith. He had the mannerisms of a Jedi, and nearly always stayed in a cool and collected state of mind. He wasn't ever to overly emotional, and he didn't use the Dark Side for merely just personal gain. He thought he was also doing the RIGHT thing for the rest of the galaxy, being a part of the Separatists. Honestly, he's more like a "Grey Sith", kinda like Starkiller was in TFU where he used the Dark Side to help the Rebellion before learning to harness the Light as well.

    TL;DR only true Sith, who are under the effects of the Dark Side, who are truly consumed by it, who let it run through their veins, have the trademark yellow Sith eyes. Otherwise, they don't.
    We need a Tier System for the Heroes. It would justify the "op-ness" of Vader over Han and Chewbacca. It would cost much more to unlock Vader, and would require you to save a lot more than for other heroes and vehicles, but it would be rewarding in the end...

    "It would essentially ruin the eras and turn them into nothing much more than the same thing and same experience but with a different skin. Which is contrary to the point in having eras in the first place." - ZmanGames
  • Also, I would imagine that Maul being a Zabrak could have something to do with it...

    Idk, they might just naturally have red/yellow eyes?
    OOM19 wrote: »

    Imagine it

    A horde of Bipedal Millennium Falcons with cheeseburgers for legs
    If there seems to be random words or phrases in my post that don't make sense, blame Autocorrect.
    #COOMCAIBDJF
  • When FA came out there was lots of uproar from men's rights types about it. I disagreed. I thought they were totally off base and pretty much just threatened by strong women or more accurately projecting their political narrative onto the film. I didn't find it overall "feminist" or "liberal".

    But TLJ was another beast. It was so blatantly pushing a political narrative I couldn't stand it. I could likely go through the movie scene by scene and pick it out.

    The movie was all about destroying traditions and building something new from the ashes. Currently liberals political are taking a direction of wanting to destroy existing traditions and institutions to build something new. Destroy the patriarchy and create a more equal world where women are the focus. Destroy the gender binary. Destroy the traditional family. Destroy monogamous relationships. Destroy the sense of good and evil. All things that are seen as oppressive and bad for people.

    The Conservative side of things was never really shown in the movie. The idea that sometimes we need tradition to bring balance to things and the fact traditions exist for a reason. Not just to ruin everyone's fun. Yoda was a symbol of this in previous films. He was the guardian of tradition and the one not wanting to train Luke because of age limits while obi wan pressured him to loosen up a bit. Yet in this one Yoda literally burns down the sacred place of the Jedi order because now he's all on board with the force is within us all bandwagon which itself is a mirror of the idea we don't need organized religion or organized anything.

    Here's the thing though. What made the first star wars so great is it drew on traditional narratives that has been with us since we started writing. The struggle of good versus evil. The struggle of tradition versus progress. This film threw that out the window because again it's all about destroying those old narratives to make something new. Look at kylo. Is he bad or is he good? While Snoke could be said to be the main villain he really wasn't in the same way Kylo should be but we're left with Kylo resting in a grey area. And who is Kylo's greatest enemy? It's not Rey like the good versus evil formula would suggest, it's Snoke, the guy that represents the tradition of the Sith. Even Luke, the good guys good guy, is portrayed as being in a grey area with those flashbacks.
  • DarthJ wrote: »
    Quizolio wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    alunguy wrote: »
    does asking these questions mean that i'm threatened by strong women like Jar Jar Abrams says?

    Has he really said that?

    Unfortunately he did, and in doing so completely ruined any chance of me seeing Episode IX. TLJ killed my interest in IX, but JJ put the final nail in the coffin with that comment.

    http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/j-j-abrams-weighs-on-fans-who-hated-female-driven-last-jedi.html

    Personally, I wasn't 'threatened' by the TLJ for that reason, it was how pointless, pandering and low quality the plot and film was as a whole.

    I fear thats the route the new fandom of the ST, and the franchise killers that are kathleen and JJ/Rian, will take. 'Well if you dont like the films you must be sexist'. Yeah OK. Couple that with the 'force is female' stuff (imagine the uproar though if someone went around in a 'force is male' t shirt), and Kathleen saying that she doesnt have to cater to the male star wars fans, and its clear they have an agenda they want in the films. TLJ was the poster boy of agenda films.

    The funny thing is though, at least for me, is that I could care less on the genders of characters. If Rey actually went through stuff she would probably be really likeable. I think I'd like her. But the whole flawless thing scares everyone off her. Holdo is another who was complained about, but it was more people felt she took a place Ackbar could have had. And Rose was probably the worst character in Star Wars, suffering even more with being the main in the Canto section,which was the biggest PC promotion I have ever seen.

    Yeah, that was atrocious.
    Also, OP, whenever you post anything with the words "Last Jedi", the thread's gonna go off topic real quick (unless the thread is about how you feel about TLJ, then it's right on track lol).


    As for your question, Kylo and Snoke aren't Sith. The Sith let the Dark Side consume them, and they had a certain level of commitment to it that gave them those yellow eyes. However, Kylo and Snoke didn't practice the Dark Side like Sith did, and neither did Dooku. I always felt that Dooku was merely a Dark Jedi with Sith abilities, but never reached his full power.

    Also, it is stated that, in order to have the yellow eyes, one must be under the full effects of the Dark Side. This happened with Anakin in ROTS, where he has normal eyes before the attack on the Jedi Temple, and once he slaughtered all the Separatists, his eyes are yellow. He is under the effects of the full power of the Dark Side, just as Sidious said so. When he meets Padme, he immediately goes back to normal. And then, after Obi Wan sliced and diced him, he has his Sith eyes for pretty much the rest of his life, up until ROTJ, when Luke helps to redeem him.

    Back to the question at hand,
    Let's not forget that Dooku was missing traditional Sith features as well.

    Dooku was also very different from your average Sith. He had the mannerisms of a Jedi, and nearly always stayed in a cool and collected state of mind. He wasn't ever to overly emotional, and he didn't use the Dark Side for merely just personal gain. He thought he was also doing the RIGHT thing for the rest of the galaxy, being a part of the Separatists. Honestly, he's more like a "Grey Sith", kinda like Starkiller was in TFU where he used the Dark Side to help the Rebellion before learning to harness the Light as well.

    TL;DR only true Sith, who are under the effects of the Dark Side, who are truly consumed by it, who let it run through their veins, have the trademark yellow Sith eyes. Otherwise, they don't.
    Makes a lot of sense thanks for the write up. I guess it’s just strange to me how they can be portrayed as so evil but show none of the effects. Reminds me of Kreia from KOTOR 2, always wondered how she hid her true warped physical form until I replayed it recently. You’d think in Kylo’s first force choke scene he would’ve momentarily had the yellow eyes, but I guess that was an oversight.
    Also I’m all aboard for anyone who wants to rail against those dog **** movies. VII, VIII, and soon IX are the biggest franchise busts I’ve ever seen. I felt like I was wasting my life while sitting through VIII premier. The agendas, crap writing, all the grey ground where no one apparently stands for anything anymore, that whole casino garbage, the dialogue was mentally challenged, and there wasn’t even a real lightsaber duel! How do they think they produced a good movie? I mean how did anyone concieve, write, film, cut, and edit these 2 movies and not laugh hysterically?! Utter filth. No wonder Mark Hamill is so disgusted with the direction they took. I’m sure in episode IX they are going to tell us Rey is actually the chosen one, and Kylo Ren while run off somewhere wimpering like the indecisive child they portray him to be. The prequels had their bad CGI moments and some cringey dialogue but there was a strong narrative that was engaging and fun. Can we petition to return to legacy? That stuff was way better by 1000’s of miles.


    jar-jar-binks-dancing-gif-3.gif
  • WildSpace wrote: »
    DarthJ wrote: »
    Quizolio wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    alunguy wrote: »
    does asking these questions mean that i'm threatened by strong women like Jar Jar Abrams says?

    Has he really said that?

    Unfortunately he did, and in doing so completely ruined any chance of me seeing Episode IX. TLJ killed my interest in IX, but JJ put the final nail in the coffin with that comment.

    http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/j-j-abrams-weighs-on-fans-who-hated-female-driven-last-jedi.html

    Personally, I wasn't 'threatened' by the TLJ for that reason, it was how pointless, pandering and low quality the plot and film was as a whole.

    I fear thats the route the new fandom of the ST, and the franchise killers that are kathleen and JJ/Rian, will take. 'Well if you dont like the films you must be sexist'. Yeah OK. Couple that with the 'force is female' stuff (imagine the uproar though if someone went around in a 'force is male' t shirt), and Kathleen saying that she doesnt have to cater to the male star wars fans, and its clear they have an agenda they want in the films. TLJ was the poster boy of agenda films.

    The funny thing is though, at least for me, is that I could care less on the genders of characters. If Rey actually went through stuff she would probably be really likeable. I think I'd like her. But the whole flawless thing scares everyone off her. Holdo is another who was complained about, but it was more people felt she took a place Ackbar could have had. And Rose was probably the worst character in Star Wars, suffering even more with being the main in the Canto section,which was the biggest PC promotion I have ever seen.

    Yeah, that was atrocious.
    Also, OP, whenever you post anything with the words "Last Jedi", the thread's gonna go off topic real quick (unless the thread is about how you feel about TLJ, then it's right on track lol).


    As for your question, Kylo and Snoke aren't Sith. The Sith let the Dark Side consume them, and they had a certain level of commitment to it that gave them those yellow eyes. However, Kylo and Snoke didn't practice the Dark Side like Sith did, and neither did Dooku. I always felt that Dooku was merely a Dark Jedi with Sith abilities, but never reached his full power.

    Also, it is stated that, in order to have the yellow eyes, one must be under the full effects of the Dark Side. This happened with Anakin in ROTS, where he has normal eyes before the attack on the Jedi Temple, and once he slaughtered all the Separatists, his eyes are yellow. He is under the effects of the full power of the Dark Side, just as Sidious said so. When he meets Padme, he immediately goes back to normal. And then, after Obi Wan sliced and diced him, he has his Sith eyes for pretty much the rest of his life, up until ROTJ, when Luke helps to redeem him.

    Back to the question at hand,
    Let's not forget that Dooku was missing traditional Sith features as well.

    Dooku was also very different from your average Sith. He had the mannerisms of a Jedi, and nearly always stayed in a cool and collected state of mind. He wasn't ever to overly emotional, and he didn't use the Dark Side for merely just personal gain. He thought he was also doing the RIGHT thing for the rest of the galaxy, being a part of the Separatists. Honestly, he's more like a "Grey Sith", kinda like Starkiller was in TFU where he used the Dark Side to help the Rebellion before learning to harness the Light as well.

    TL;DR only true Sith, who are under the effects of the Dark Side, who are truly consumed by it, who let it run through their veins, have the trademark yellow Sith eyes. Otherwise, they don't.
    Makes a lot of sense thanks for the write up. I guess it’s just strange to me how they can be portrayed as so evil but show none of the effects. Reminds me of Kreia from KOTOR 2, always wondered how she hid her true warped physical form until I replayed it recently. You’d think in Kylo’s first force choke scene he would’ve momentarily had the yellow eyes, but I guess that was an oversight.
    Also I’m all aboard for anyone who wants to rail against those dog **** movies. VII, VIII, and soon IX are the biggest franchise busts I’ve ever seen. I felt like I was wasting my life while sitting through VIII premier. The agendas, **** writing, all the grey ground where no one apparently stands for anything anymore, that whole casino garbage, the dialogue was mentally challenged, and there wasn’t even a real lightsaber duel! How do they think they produced a good movie? I mean how did anyone concieve, write, film, cut, and edit these 2 movies and not laugh hysterically?! Utter filth. No wonder Mark Hamill is so disgusted with the direction they took. I’m sure in episode IX they are going to tell us Rey is actually the chosen one, and Kylo Ren while run off somewhere wimpering like the indecisive child they portray him to be. The prequels had their bad CGI moments and some cringey dialogue but there was a strong narrative that was engaging and fun. Can we petition to return to legacy? That stuff was way better by 1000’s of miles.


    No prob, mate. To be completely honest, I kinda liked TFA, although there were definitely parts that made me go "WTH". I could deal with it.

    In TLJ, though, utterly disgusting. Not only is it bad from a fan point of view, but with all these critics saying it is great, I don't get it. There are HUGE, gaping plot holes, and there are several points that are horrendous from just a critic's point of view. Look up Film Theory's video on TLJ, skip 3/4th though it and he addresses some major plot flaws that any REAL critic would recognize. I honestly feel that Disney may have bought some people off to inflate their score.
    We need a Tier System for the Heroes. It would justify the "op-ness" of Vader over Han and Chewbacca. It would cost much more to unlock Vader, and would require you to save a lot more than for other heroes and vehicles, but it would be rewarding in the end...

    "It would essentially ruin the eras and turn them into nothing much more than the same thing and same experience but with a different skin. Which is contrary to the point in having eras in the first place." - ZmanGames
  • TheGeneral122513
    3809 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    Here we are, go to 9:56


    We need a Tier System for the Heroes. It would justify the "op-ness" of Vader over Han and Chewbacca. It would cost much more to unlock Vader, and would require you to save a lot more than for other heroes and vehicles, but it would be rewarding in the end...

    "It would essentially ruin the eras and turn them into nothing much more than the same thing and same experience but with a different skin. Which is contrary to the point in having eras in the first place." - ZmanGames
  • I honestly feel that Disney may have bought some people off to inflate their score.

    It could be me, but I don't think that's even a question at this point. I thought that the sheer amount of 'critics' and people praising the movie like no other when the release came around was suspiciously high. After reading of all those positive vibes, there was an immediate disconnect when I was in the theater. I wondered, and still do quite frankly, just what movie they saw, because whatever they hyped TLJ to be... it was not the train wreck I endured.
    "A thing called grammar needs a buff."
    - tankertoad
  • Quizolio wrote: »
    I honestly feel that Disney may have bought some people off to inflate their score.

    It could be me, but I don't think that's even a question at this point. I thought that the sheer amount of 'critics' and people praising the movie like no other when the release came around was suspiciously high. After reading of all those positive vibes, there was an immediate disconnect when I was in the theater. I wondered, and still do quite frankly, just what movie they saw, because whatever they hyped TLJ to be... it was not the train wreck I endured.

    So true...Sadly...
    :disappointed: :cry:

    I feel like a 10 year old wrote this script.
    We need a Tier System for the Heroes. It would justify the "op-ness" of Vader over Han and Chewbacca. It would cost much more to unlock Vader, and would require you to save a lot more than for other heroes and vehicles, but it would be rewarding in the end...

    "It would essentially ruin the eras and turn them into nothing much more than the same thing and same experience but with a different skin. Which is contrary to the point in having eras in the first place." - ZmanGames
  • The critics aren’t biased by past experience with SW. It is definitely a good movie but an odd one. With time, I believe that people (myself included) will see this as one of the better SW movies.



    Also thought it interesting to mention that the New York Times initially gave The Empire Strikes Back, now considered the best SW movie by some, a poor review.
  • It appears that @TheGeneral122513 has beat me to sharing the info.
  • EvazanJr wrote: »
    It appears that @TheGeneral122513 has beat me to sharing the info.

    :lol: sorry
    We need a Tier System for the Heroes. It would justify the "op-ness" of Vader over Han and Chewbacca. It would cost much more to unlock Vader, and would require you to save a lot more than for other heroes and vehicles, but it would be rewarding in the end...

    "It would essentially ruin the eras and turn them into nothing much more than the same thing and same experience but with a different skin. Which is contrary to the point in having eras in the first place." - ZmanGames
  • Cad_Bane wrote: »
    Quizolio wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    alunguy wrote: »
    does asking these questions mean that i'm threatened by strong women like Jar Jar Abrams says?

    Has he really said that?

    Unfortunately he did, and in doing so completely ruined any chance of me seeing Episode IX. TLJ killed my interest in IX, but JJ put the final nail in the coffin with that comment.

    http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/j-j-abrams-weighs-on-fans-who-hated-female-driven-last-jedi.html

    Personally, I wasn't 'threatened' by the TLJ for that reason, it was how pointless, pandering and low quality the plot and film was as a whole.

    Ahh great. If I didn’t not like this guy enough already.

    The arrogance of this guy. So criticisms of his film aren’t reasonable and anyone who criticizes his film must feel “threatened by the strong women in the film?”
    SMH

    JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson are shills for Kathy Kennedy and her SJW agenda and will say whatever it takes to defend the garbage that's TLJ.
  • Cad_Bane wrote: »
    Quizolio wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    alunguy wrote: »
    does asking these questions mean that i'm threatened by strong women like Jar Jar Abrams says?

    Has he really said that?

    Unfortunately he did, and in doing so completely ruined any chance of me seeing Episode IX. TLJ killed my interest in IX, but JJ put the final nail in the coffin with that comment.

    http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/j-j-abrams-weighs-on-fans-who-hated-female-driven-last-jedi.html

    Personally, I wasn't 'threatened' by the TLJ for that reason, it was how pointless, pandering and low quality the plot and film was as a whole.

    Ahh great. If I didn’t not like this guy enough already.

    The arrogance of this guy. So criticisms of his film aren’t reasonable and anyone who criticizes his film must feel “threatened by the strong women in the film?”
    SMH

    JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson are shills for Kathy Kennedy and her SJW agenda and will say whatever it takes to defend the garbage that's TLJ.

    Yeah. I like how people point out that, if George wore a "the Force is male" shirt, it would be sexist and he'd be a neo-**** etc etc, but when Kennedy wore it, it is a sign of female independence and pride.

    Yeah, that's not equality.
    We need a Tier System for the Heroes. It would justify the "op-ness" of Vader over Han and Chewbacca. It would cost much more to unlock Vader, and would require you to save a lot more than for other heroes and vehicles, but it would be rewarding in the end...

    "It would essentially ruin the eras and turn them into nothing much more than the same thing and same experience but with a different skin. Which is contrary to the point in having eras in the first place." - ZmanGames
  • Cad_Bane
    6252 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    EvazanJr wrote: »
    The critics aren’t biased by past experience with SW. It is definitely a good movie but an odd one. With time, I believe that people (myself included) will see this as one of the better SW movies.



    Also thought it interesting to mention that the New York Times initially gave The Empire Strikes Back, now considered the best SW movie by some, a poor review.

    I don’t understand how that’s a valid point. Critics during the OT weren’t biased by past experience with SW because it was the beginning of SW. The OT wasn’t continuing an already established story like the ST.
    So of course people are going to judge the film based on what’s happened in the past. This is a continuation of an already established story. The ST doesn’t expand on a established story, it tears down what was built in the other trilogies. These aren’t independent films. They shouldn’t be judged or criticized as ones either
    Post edited by Cad_Bane on
  • Trooper8059
    10197 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    EvazanJr wrote: »
    The critics aren’t biased by past experience with SW. It is definitely a good movie but an odd one. With time, I believe that people (myself included) will see this as one of the better SW movies.



    Also thought it interesting to mention that the New York Times initially gave The Empire Strikes Back, now considered the best SW movie by some, a poor review.

    I don’t understand how that’s a valid point. Critics during the OT weren’t biased by past experience with SW because it was the beginning of SW. The OT wasn’t continuing an already established story like the ST.
    So of course people are going to judge the film based on what’s happened in the past. This is a continuation of an already established story. The ST doesn’t expand on a established story, it tears down what was built in the other trilogies. These aren’t independent films.

    People came around to Empire because over time they could see what a great story it presented, with great characters and believable motivations. Even without the questionable lore changes, The Last Jedi has a confusing story with plot elements that simply don't add up. It'll be hard for a film like this to rise in popularity when there are glaring flaws in what is the essentials of storytelling.
    PSN: Trooper8059
    "Remember: Your focus determines your reality."
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  • IMO..............and spoilers ahead......














    The Last Jedi fails at being cannon SW. And it fails from a technical standpoint. Where were the Y wings? They traded Y wings for those big cluncky bombers that tryed to have a WW 2 bomber feel? And that Casino.........what were they thinking? A big chunk of the movie with like a sub plot that is just silly stupid....Jar Jar goes to Disney world.?


    It was good to see the reunion of Luke and R-2, like Lucas said it was beatifully made, but it was simply a travesty what they did to the character of Luke Skywalker...........the things they made Mark Hamil do and say....Like he said "That ain't Luke Skywalker......thats Jake Skywalker"













    There is only ONE WAY..........IMHO..................................To save episode 9 and the entire SW franchise.



























    Luke had a dream...............................................A DREAM...................................that included all the old characters and the new.

    The events of episode 7 and 8 have not happened yet..................they might happen...................or not...........................but Luke is some how aware of Rey............and hewants her to come see him and "properly" train.

    And this way nobody is dead...Like Han even for example.

    The more I think of these crazy ideas, the more I believe there is going to be something like this in episode 9.............a dream a vision or something........a recall.....change the past????..........that will more set things right. I just can't believe Disney would be willing to flush one of the greatest science fiction IP's down the toilet. When Episode 9 would probably be the true end. Though to me personally...............Revenge of the sith in 2005 DID feel like the end or the completion for me. But hey it's back.
  • SrawDawg wrote: »
    IMO..............and spoilers ahead......













    The Last Jedi fails at being cannon SW. And it fails from a technical standpoint. Where were the Y wings? They traded Y wings for those big cluncky bombers that tryed to have a WW 2 bomber feel? And that Casino.........what were they thinking? A big chunk of the movie with like a sub plot that is just silly ****....Jar Jar goes to Disney world.?


    It was good to see the reunion of Luke and R-2, like Lucas said it was beatifully made, but it was simply a travesty what they did to the character of Luke Skywalker...........the things they made Mark Hamil do and say....Like he said "That ain't Luke Skywalker......thats Jake Skywalker"













    There is only ONE WAY..........IMHO..................................To save episode 9 and the entire SW franchise.



























    Luke had a dream...............................................A DREAM...................................that included all the old characters and the new.

    The events of episode 7 and 8 have not happened yet..................they might happen...................or not...........................but Luke is some how aware of Rey............and hewants her to come see him and "properly" train.

    And this way nobody is dead...Like Han even for example.

    The more I think of these crazy ideas, the more I believe there is going to be something like this in episode 9.............a dream a vision or something........a recall.....change the past????..........that will more set things right. I just can't believe Disney would be willing to flush one of the greatest science fiction IP's down the toilet. When Episode 9 would probably be the true end. Though to me personally...............Revenge of the sith in 2005 DID feel like the end or the completion for me. But hey it's back.

    Actually, that's a FANTASTIC IDEA! It still means TLJ was a waste of a movie, but IT SAVES THE FRANCHISE!

    You, sir or ma'am, are a genius.
    We need a Tier System for the Heroes. It would justify the "op-ness" of Vader over Han and Chewbacca. It would cost much more to unlock Vader, and would require you to save a lot more than for other heroes and vehicles, but it would be rewarding in the end...

    "It would essentially ruin the eras and turn them into nothing much more than the same thing and same experience but with a different skin. Which is contrary to the point in having eras in the first place." - ZmanGames
  • Cad_Bane wrote: »
    Quizolio wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    alunguy wrote: »
    does asking these questions mean that i'm threatened by strong women like Jar Jar Abrams says?

    Has he really said that?

    Unfortunately he did, and in doing so completely ruined any chance of me seeing Episode IX. TLJ killed my interest in IX, but JJ put the final nail in the coffin with that comment.

    http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/j-j-abrams-weighs-on-fans-who-hated-female-driven-last-jedi.html

    Personally, I wasn't 'threatened' by the TLJ for that reason, it was how pointless, pandering and low quality the plot and film was as a whole.

    Ahh great. If I didn’t not like this guy enough already.

    The arrogance of this guy. So criticisms of his film aren’t reasonable and anyone who criticizes his film must feel “threatened by the strong women in the film?”
    SMH

    JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson are shills for Kathy Kennedy and her SJW agenda and will say whatever it takes to defend the garbage that's TLJ.

    We need more cool non-shill directors like Gareth

    Yup. RO was delicious.
    We need a Tier System for the Heroes. It would justify the "op-ness" of Vader over Han and Chewbacca. It would cost much more to unlock Vader, and would require you to save a lot more than for other heroes and vehicles, but it would be rewarding in the end...

    "It would essentially ruin the eras and turn them into nothing much more than the same thing and same experience but with a different skin. Which is contrary to the point in having eras in the first place." - ZmanGames
  • Cad_Bane wrote: »
    Quizolio wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    alunguy wrote: »
    does asking these questions mean that i'm threatened by strong women like Jar Jar Abrams says?

    Has he really said that?

    Unfortunately he did, and in doing so completely ruined any chance of me seeing Episode IX. TLJ killed my interest in IX, but JJ put the final nail in the coffin with that comment.

    http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/j-j-abrams-weighs-on-fans-who-hated-female-driven-last-jedi.html

    Personally, I wasn't 'threatened' by the TLJ for that reason, it was how pointless, pandering and low quality the plot and film was as a whole.

    Ahh great. If I didn’t not like this guy enough already.

    The arrogance of this guy. So criticisms of his film aren’t reasonable and anyone who criticizes his film must feel “threatened by the strong women in the film?”
    SMH

    JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson are shills for Kathy Kennedy and her SJW agenda and will say whatever it takes to defend the garbage that's TLJ.

    Yep the SJW is strong in this one. They're looking to destroy all tradition and build something new because all tradition is seen as toxic. Which is actually a very naive and dangerous agenda to push. Traditions exist for a reason and there have literally been countries that have tried to socially engineer from the top down and it failed.

    Hell with TLJ they even removed the Wilhelm scream. They acknowledged it was a tradition they thought needed to end and have a new scream they'll be using instead. Why even do that?
  • IonYaleY wrote: »
    I do not think JJ or Rian ruined the Saga.

    The large numbers of people assuming themselves as a true fan do care about one single thing whenever they are bred with Star Wars food; fancy lightsaber fights. When they can not see such content such moments, such people start to flame blame and spoil the directors and scriptwriters.

    TLJ and TFA might not have had so many eye-popping or thrilling fights. But, audiences who blame these movies to be irrelevant or just a humiliation to the Original Trilogy or Prequels are seriously wrong in my eyes.
    I do not claim this not because i am dying for either directors but i also watched back both Original Trilogy and Prequels which include various hilarious scenes almost closer to TFA and TLJ in that case.

    My whole point is its my opinion yet mere point of view that either directors moved the Saga to another point while putting some unusual stuff to the audience. People just do not wanna broaden their point of view. Do feel rather lazy to see beyond the limits or casual stuff.

    I like JJ Abrams body of work, i thought TFA was a good start to the trilogy. If you read what people are upset about it's not that the TLJ was too ground breaking or forward thinking for fans to comprehend, it's that it had major plot holes bad pacing, disregarded everything that was set up in TFA, pointless character arcs that led no where, killing off iconic characters for quick shock value and a lot of other reasons.
    Here's one quick example. Roses stops Finn from destroying the cannon and says 'we wont win by destroying what we hate but saving the ones we love' yet she actually just stopped Finn from saving the ones he loves. That's called bad writing.
    Do you honestly think sci-fi fans don't have the imagination to accept something new and different if it's done well? Sci-fi is all about expanding our horizons but TLJ fails on too many levels to ignore.
  • IonYaleY wrote: »
    I do not think JJ or Rian ruined the Saga.

    The large numbers of people assuming themselves as a true fan do care about one single thing whenever they are bred with Star Wars food; fancy lightsaber fights. When they can not see such content such moments, such people start to flame blame and spoil the directors and scriptwriters.

    TLJ and TFA might not have had so many eye-popping or thrilling fights. But, audiences who blame these movies to be irrelevant or just a humiliation to the Original Trilogy or Prequels are seriously wrong in my eyes.
    I do not claim this not because i am dying for either directors but i also watched back both Original Trilogy and Prequels which include various hilarious scenes almost closer to TFA and TLJ in that case.

    My whole point is its my opinion yet mere point of view that either directors moved the Saga to another point while putting some unusual stuff to the audience. People just do not wanna broaden their point of view. Do feel rather lazy to see beyond the limits or casual stuff.

    Perhaps you could look at the reasons people disliked the Movie, such as plot holes poor writing/pacing, character development disregard of continuity, and explain why fans are wrong about these issues. Saying that sci-fi fans lack the imagination and forward thinking to accept TLJ because it's too much for us to comprehend is as dumb as saying we didn't like the movie because we are threatend by women. Instead of trying to attack us on a personal level you should explain exactly what it is we are all missing that is so amazing about this movie. The same way we have explained what is wrong with the movie.
  • Guys, gals, let's take this to a different thread.

    Here:
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/89882/the-last-jedi-spoiler-thread#latest
    We need a Tier System for the Heroes. It would justify the "op-ness" of Vader over Han and Chewbacca. It would cost much more to unlock Vader, and would require you to save a lot more than for other heroes and vehicles, but it would be rewarding in the end...

    "It would essentially ruin the eras and turn them into nothing much more than the same thing and same experience but with a different skin. Which is contrary to the point in having eras in the first place." - ZmanGames
  • Troopper_FoFo
    1029 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    pertaining to the op.

    Yellow eyes are only for a Sith. There are many different types of dark side users as with light side users. We have Sith , dark Jedi, Nightsisters, The Son force fielder ,as well as others added in the newer comics.


    I think Snoke and Kylo are a new type of Dark Side user or maybe very old. It is why Ben took the name Ren that is different from a Sith.

    We have the Knights of Ren. There doesn't seem to be a rule of two with a Ren as these knights are dark side users.

    While a sith is consumed by the dark side a Ren might be closer to a legends idea introduced in the old republic the Light Sith or maybe a dark jedi. Not really sure until we get a comic , book or game going into more depth.

    Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/TroopperFoFo/ .
    Battlefront 2 , Battlefield and more.
  • Maybe it should have been nominated for best picture though. :)

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