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The Last Jedi Haters Can Take a Hike

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Looking at the top-selling Blu-Rays in the US this year, it's clear to see that people don't hate The Last Jedi, and the haters are indeed a vocal minority. All the whining about 'bad writing' or 'betrayal of a legacy' or whatever other nonsense is spewed can take a back seat to the fact that this film resonated with people as much as, if not more than, films like Black Panther or The Greatest Showman. Personally, every time I watch it I like it more and more. Turns out YouTube is NOT a good measure of quality or overall audience approval.

https://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/bluray-sales/2018
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Replies

  • Was glad to see this too.

    Solo releases in digital tomorrow also and I’m hyped.
    #infantrylivesmatter

    ggef7ygw22dp.gif
  • I agree with you Jim, but you DO understand the hate, right? I mean, I'm over 40 and I totally understand it and was very much irked/peeved/confused/angry on first viewing, left the theatre thinking Rian royally disrespected Luke and Snoke, but I immediately read all his rebuttals on twitter (very well done I thought), returned to the theatre a week later to watch it in a different light, from a different perspective (hard to imagine but it was easy thanks to Rian's rebuttals), and actually laughed at the parts that I didn't before, esp the saber toss, and still do, and each and every subsequent viewing has me more and more appreciating the film. And I'm a stubborn dude! I really like it a lot now. I own the 3D blu ray. I think Luke's force projection is awesome and makes for a waycool third act twist. It was also foreshadowed by Snoke in an early scene when he used his projection to slam General Hux on the ground on that ship's bridge. if people think that was a hologram, it was not. It was Snoke force projecting. Good filmmaking! Oh, and I think Snoke's death by "overconfidence being his weakness" is awesome. Totally a callback to RotJ. Just my 2 cents.
    "We own the sun, we own the sky. We own tomorrow and we want to fly..."
  • It is true, that it is a very popular movie. But you don't have to go hating a group of people for just disliking a movie.

    I didn't. I said the haters (those who unleash vitriolic diatribes on the film) are a minority and should get plenty of exercise.
    I agree with you Jim, but you DO understand the hate, right? I mean, I'm over 40 and I totally understand it and was very much irked/peeved/confused/angry on first viewing, left the theatre thinking Rian royally disrespected Luke and Snoke, but I immediately read all his rebuttals on twitter (very well done I thought), returned to the theatre a week later to watch it in a different light, from a different perspective (hard to imagine but it was easy thanks to Rian's rebuttals), and actually laughed at the parts that I didn't before, esp the saber toss, and still do, and each and every subsequent viewing has me more and more appreciating the film. And I'm a stubborn dude! I really like it a lot now. I own the 3D blu ray. I think Luke's force projection is awesome and makes for a waycool third act twist. It was also foreshadowed by Snoke in an early scene when he used his projection to slam General Hux on the ground on that ship's bridge. if people think that was a hologram, it was not. It was Snoke force projecting. Good filmmaking! Oh, and I think Snoke's death by "overconfidence being his weakness" is awesome. Totally a callback to RotJ. Just my 2 cents.

    I understand being confused. I admit to being a bit lost after first viewing. It's such a dense film and so many things that connect to other things that I wasn't sure what I thought of it. However, being a Star Wars film I knew I was going to see it again, and I loved it the second time. You at least gave it that second chance.

    What I don't understand is the total knee-jerk display of profound ignorance and vitriol.
    #VestedinVesti #InTrydlingWeTrust #DennistheDefinitive #BettingonBen
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  • petemish
    50 posts Member
    edited September 14
    I like it too and can't understand all the hate. I'm of a generation that I could see the latter movies of the OT in the cinema (well ROTJ at least, I'm not THAT old) and have been a fan all of my life. I didn't hate the prequels as much as I was supposed to at the time, the biggest problem I actually had them was the over reliance on preexisting characters (did R2 and C3P0 need to be in the prequels at all? And why include Chewie? That was just unnecessary) as well as how the movies didn't quite tie up in a bow to lead into the OT (particularly Padme, it would have made more sense if she'd had the twins in secret towards the start of ROTS and told Annakin they died in childbirth because she was fearful of him - would work for his descent towards Darth and would have given her a bonding moment with Leia at least). But what I loved about the prequels was all of the world building, a lot of pop culture SW references actually come from the prequels and not the OT.

    As for the TFA and TLJ I think they did a great job of re-balancing and trod a line between the OT and the PT. In the way that the PT made the world bigger, the ST made the OT characters more complex and nuanced, it built in a massive way on character which has not been seen to that extent in SW before at least in the movies. As for Luke, a comparison I would use would be Logan and the earlier movie iterations of the character. I appreciate there is comic book precedence here but if there wasn't the character had fundamentally changed and become more nihilistic as a direct impact of numerous tragedies. He is absolutely changed from the character in X-Men and X2. That movie was (pretty much) universally lauded and the thing that made it so great was the impact of grief on the characters, why should that be any different for Luke? If people don't grow or change it is a much less interesting narrative and much less satisfying story.
    Post edited by petemish on
  • Oh and I'm glad it's done well on DVD as this might mean we get more films, some will be good and some will be bad I'm sure but that's films for you.
  • I think for me of the four new movies I probably liked TFA the most. Rogue One was great but very stand alone and actually could have done with been a little longer to develop the characters a bit more. Solo was fun but kind of inconsequential but did deserve to do better at the box office and TLJ was complex with some amazing scenes but probably just less fun than TFA. If you said I had to put on a SW movie to watch right now, I'd much more likely go for the fun ones such as ANH, ROTJ or TFA than the darker ones like Rogue One, Empire or TLJ.
  • I also think that Rey (and her origins) reflect what Luke was for us before Empire came out. Just a random kid, with some amazing powers even he didn't know about who got caught up in this story. He was a bit of an everyman for kids - maybe you could grow up to be a hero. That changed with Empire and particularly Jedi (and even more with the prequels) where you realise that it was all destiny. The thing I liked the most about TLJ is it reverts back to that sense that anyone could possibly be a Jedi it doesn't matter who your parents were (and that applies to Rey and the kid with the broom). It's much interesting if the force is universal than dynastic, it will be interesting to see what JJ does with it but I really hope he doesn't retcon Rey's origins.
  • bfloo
    11245 posts Member
    Depends on what people disliked about it.

    It already had characters I had no feeling for, didn't understand any of their motivations, and saw them as shallow stereotypes. I haven't missed the irony that Rose was well developed and hated for it.
    Rose is the only character I fully understand why she does the things she does in the st.

    The TLJ story didn't bother me, it was just paced so slowly I got bored with it the 2 or 3 times I watched it, which is also an issue I had with AotC. By the time they get to Geonosis and it picks up I already lost interest.
  • DCDT wrote: »
    Just because people bought the movie on blu-ray, that doesn´t mean they didn´t hate it.

    Yeah... right. But still, don’t you think it’s safe to assume that most people don’t buy the films they hate on blu-ray and instead, save their money for something they actually enjoy?... I think that is the common practise.
  • DCDT wrote: »
    Just because people bought the movie on blu-ray, that doesn´t mean they didn´t hate it.

    Yeah... right. But still, don’t you think it’s safe to assume that most people don’t buy the films they hate on blu-ray and instead, save their money for something they actually enjoy?... I think that is the common practise.

    I mostly agree with this and it would be crazy to buy films on BR you don't like but then I did buy Mission Impossible 2 to complete the set and that movie is pretty horrible apart from Thandie Newton and Tom Cruise's hair. But the sales figures of TLJ certainly do reflect the Cinemascore ranking and not the Rotten Tomatoes user score which is pretty easily manipulated by a motivated minority. Generally speaking it's the people with the extremes of opinion that comment on this stuff - they either love it or hate it which is why some things get 10/10 or 0/10 scores before anyone could have possibly seen them. Most people, I would think don't care that much and probably were some where in the 'it was okay' to 'it was pretty good' range and a good proportion of these are buying the BR.
  • You at least gave it that second chance.

    What I don't understand is the total knee-jerk display of profound ignorance and vitriol.
    The ignorance and vitriol (great word by the way) I would simply chalk up to "the internet and trolls," and like you said, they are knee-jerk responses. I replied yesterday because I want to sort of give the haters some hope that if they just look at it from a different point of view, namely Rian's, then you might, (oh no!) actually enjoy it. It's easy to hate on something. It's more difficult and more rewarding to appreciate something you didn't initially appreciate. Take music for example. Your favorite band releases a new album, say it's their 4th album; what if you don't immediately like it? Are you going to throw it away? Not me, I'm going to listen to it often, and 9/10 times, it will grow on me and I will eventually like it. Is that defeatism? Maybe, but I'm a lot happier with this attitude.

    "We own the sun, we own the sky. We own tomorrow and we want to fly..."
  • They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    Dang, also thought I was a fan. What are all these toys and cardboard standups doing in my apt? I'd better get to work on becoming as good a fan as Alex64. Since when do films incorporate fans' wishes? I don't remember Infinity War having Wolverine in it.
    DyNGHQ2.jpg
    "We own the sun, we own the sky. We own tomorrow and we want to fly..."
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    Dang, also thought I was a fan. What are all these toys and cardboard standups doing in my apt? I'd better get to work on becoming as good a fan as Alex64. Since when do films incorporate fans' wishes? I don't remember Infinity War having Wolverine in it.
    DyNGHQ2.jpg

    Agreed. I have a little Nien Nunb that goes with me to every Star Wars event.
    i3z4b6022hme.png
    Old Profile: FreakyCrawdad
    Give me an Old Luke skin, and we will be best friends. He is the only one I plan on buying with real $. :-)
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  • Its ok to like bad movies. League of extraordinary gentleman is my favorite movie. I know its a bad movie but I like really it.
    Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/TroopperFoFo/ .
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  • Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Well, I obviously don’t respect it. Because it’s wrong. Fans weren’t left out of the equation.
  • Prof_Moriarty
    891 posts Member
    edited September 14
    Deleted
  • Prof_Moriarty
    891 posts Member
    edited September 14
    Its ok to like bad movies. League of extraordinary gentleman is my favorite movie. I know its a bad movie but I like really it.

    Agreed. But in this thread we are talking about a good movie.

  • Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Well, I obviously don’t respect it. Because it’s wrong. Fans weren’t left out of the equation.

    If you don't respect my opinon then you're wrong, I respect your opinon about this movie, i invite you to respect mine.
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Yeah, but he doesn't have to like it. Fans are allowed to like whatever they want without people attacking them, and vis versa.
    i3z4b6022hme.png
    Old Profile: FreakyCrawdad
    Give me an Old Luke skin, and we will be best friends. He is the only one I plan on buying with real $. :-)
    Poe/Hux Concept Ideas: https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/117608/poe-dameron-armitage-hux-concept-ideas/p1?new=1
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Yeah, but he doesn't have to like it. Fans are allowed to like whatever they want without people attacking them, and vis versa.
    It's ok to disagree and to be honest too, what's not ok is to be rude, his/her answer was rude.
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Well, I obviously don’t respect it. Because it’s wrong. Fans weren’t left out of the equation.

    If you don't respect my opinon then you're wrong, I respect your opinon about this movie, i invite you to respect mine.

    Whether you like it TLJ not, I don’t care. I have no problems with you disliking the film and I respect that. But...
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Yeah, but he doesn't have to like it. Fans are allowed to like whatever they want without people attacking them, and vis versa.
    It's ok to disagree and to be honest too, what's not ok is to be rude, his/her answer was rude.

    ...to me saying that TLJ left fans out of the equation is the rude statement here, since that implies that we who really liked the film aren’t Star Wars fans. Rubbish.
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Please, enlighten us with YOUR The Last Jedi script/screenplay. I would love to read it, and would give you an honest answer if I think it's better than Rian's. Go to film school if you're so in-tuned with what star wars fans want. You stated that "they" filled the movie with a totally ludicrous plot. Well, "they" were hired to do so, and presented "their" script to Lucasfilm, who approved of it so we have that film now. They approved so much, they even let him write a new trilogy.
    The fans aren't even in the equation, unless you count Rian and Ram, who are both fans and filmmakers.

    I agree with the Prof's get over yourself statement.
    "We own the sun, we own the sky. We own tomorrow and we want to fly..."
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    Dang, also thought I was a fan. What are all these toys and cardboard standups doing in my apt? I'd better get to work on becoming as good a fan as Alex64. Since when do films incorporate fans' wishes? I don't remember Infinity War having Wolverine in it.
    DyNGHQ2.jpg

    Agreed. I have a little Nien Nunb that goes with me to every Star Wars event.

    Your Lucky Sullustan, eh? Nice. :)
    "We own the sun, we own the sky. We own tomorrow and we want to fly..."
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Please, enlighten us with YOUR The Last Jedi script/screenplay. I would love to read it, and would give you an honest answer if I think it's better than Rian's. Go to film school if you're so in-tuned with what star wars fans want. You stated that "they" filled the movie with a totally ludicrous plot. Well, "they" were hired to do so, and presented "their" script to Lucasfilm, who approved of it so we have that film now. They approved so much, they even let him write a new trilogy.
    The fans aren't even in the equation, unless you count Rian and Ram, who are both fans and filmmakers.

    I agree with the Prof's get over yourself statement.

    I don't need to be a movie producer to say that it was a ludicrous plot 'cause there are a lot of people agree with me(you called them haters)
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Well, I obviously don’t respect it. Because it’s wrong. Fans weren’t left out of the equation.

    If you don't respect my opinon then you're wrong, I respect your opinon about this movie, i invite you to respect mine.

    Whether you like it TLJ not, I don’t care. I have no problems with you disliking the film and I respect that. But...
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Yeah, but he doesn't have to like it. Fans are allowed to like whatever they want without people attacking them, and vis versa.
    It's ok to disagree and to be honest too, what's not ok is to be rude, his/her answer was rude.

    ...to me saying that TLJ left fans out of the equation is the rude statement here, since that implies that we who really liked the film aren’t Star Wars fans. Rubbish.

    I can say anything here if i follow the rules and respect every opinion here, all i can say is that there is a lot of people who just don't like this movie, we are out of the equation.
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Well, I obviously don’t respect it. Because it’s wrong. Fans weren’t left out of the equation.

    If you don't respect my opinon then you're wrong, I respect your opinon about this movie, i invite you to respect mine.

    Whether you like it TLJ not, I don’t care. I have no problems with you disliking the film and I respect that. But...
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Yeah, but he doesn't have to like it. Fans are allowed to like whatever they want without people attacking them, and vis versa.
    It's ok to disagree and to be honest too, what's not ok is to be rude, his/her answer was rude.

    ...to me saying that TLJ left fans out of the equation is the rude statement here, since that implies that we who really liked the film aren’t Star Wars fans. Rubbish.

    I can say anything here if i follow the rules and respect every opinion here, all i can say is that there is a lot of people who just don't like this movie, we are out of the equation.

    Yeah, there is. And there’re tons and tons of people who love the film, and we are Star Wars fans too. Respect that, pal.
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Well, I obviously don’t respect it. Because it’s wrong. Fans weren’t left out of the equation.

    If you don't respect my opinon then you're wrong, I respect your opinon about this movie, i invite you to respect mine.

    Whether you like it TLJ not, I don’t care. I have no problems with you disliking the film and I respect that. But...
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Yeah, but he doesn't have to like it. Fans are allowed to like whatever they want without people attacking them, and vis versa.
    It's ok to disagree and to be honest too, what's not ok is to be rude, his/her answer was rude.

    ...to me saying that TLJ left fans out of the equation is the rude statement here, since that implies that we who really liked the film aren’t Star Wars fans. Rubbish.

    I can say anything here if i follow the rules and respect every opinion here, all i can say is that there is a lot of people who just don't like this movie, we are out of the equation.

    Yeah, there is. And there’re tons and tons of people who love the film, and we are Star Wars fans too. Respect that, pal.

    My statement It wasn't about to be or not a SW fans, it was to show that people who you call "haters" we are just fans who doesn't like this movie, and my reason to "hate" this movie is that they use a ludicrous plot. I'm not being disrespectful.
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    They took Star Wars and filled it with a totally ludicrous plot leaving fans out of the equation.

    So we who really enjoy TLJ aren’t Star Wars fans? Get over yourself, and more more importantly: Let. It. Go.

    ”Ludicrous plot”... jeez.

    That's my honest opinion and you must respect this, your answer was rude.

    Please, enlighten us with YOUR The Last Jedi script/screenplay. I would love to read it, and would give you an honest answer if I think it's better than Rian's. Go to film school if you're so in-tuned with what star wars fans want. You stated that "they" filled the movie with a totally ludicrous plot. Well, "they" were hired to do so, and presented "their" script to Lucasfilm, who approved of it so we have that film now. They approved so much, they even let him write a new trilogy.
    The fans aren't even in the equation, unless you count Rian and Ram, who are both fans and filmmakers.

    I agree with the Prof's get over yourself statement.

    I don't need to be a movie producer to say that it was a ludicrous plot 'cause there are a lot of people agree with me(you called them haters)

    I called them haters because they hate the movie. I said above I didn't enjoy it the first view, but I willingly tried to alter my perspective because I knew, I totally FELT I was looking at it from the wrong angle, so I realigned (with Rian's help) and to be honest, didn't think I would like it the second time, but I did. I really did. I think it's great, and am so happy now that I don't hate the new star wars movie, because I'm such a huge fan of the OT and PT, so I don't know what else to say other than perhaps give it another chance, you might surprise yourself like I did. (But read Rian's twitter rebuttals first :) )I do feel like Rian and Ram deserve to be defended, so that's what I'm doing. Lemme ask you this, are you already writing off the new trilogy helmed by Rian? Or will you watch it and then decide? Because it's happening, and I'm fairly confident it will be pretty cool. It's more fun (and much easier on my psyche) to have confidence in someone rather than assume they will disappoint.
    "We own the sun, we own the sky. We own tomorrow and we want to fly..."
  • I didn't like the movie because it was a really boring car chase that took to long to get to the end.

    Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/TroopperFoFo/ .
    Battlefront 2 , Battlefield and more.
  • petemish wrote: »
    I also think that Rey (and her origins) reflect what Luke was for us before Empire came out. Just a random kid, with some amazing powers even he didn't know about who got caught up in this story. He was a bit of an everyman for kids - maybe you could grow up to be a hero. That changed with Empire and particularly Jedi (and even more with the prequels) where you realise that it was all destiny. The thing I liked the most about TLJ is it reverts back to that sense that anyone could possibly be a Jedi it doesn't matter who your parents were (and that applies to Rey and the kid with the broom). It's much interesting if the force is universal than dynastic, it will be interesting to see what JJ does with it but I really hope he doesn't retcon Rey's origins.

    I actually had a theory since in the OT, Obi-Wan said this about the Force "it binds us..." like it's a mystic, unexplainable thing whereas in the PT they refer to the Force coming from Midichlorions, a more scientific explanation, so my theory is that during the PT they intentionally gave a different explanation to the Force, to show that it's an earlier belief about the Force, and during/before the OT they had a better understanding of the Force, and they learned that the Force is more mystical than they thought it was.

    I really enjoyed The Last Jedi, especially old man Luke, and I think his story with Kylo Ren is similar to his confrontation with Darth Vader in Episode VI (where he was fighting Darth Vader not to end his reign of terror, but because he was goaded to by the Emperor "good, good, let the hate flow through you").
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  • EA_Cian
    505 posts EA Moderator
    Let's quit it with the arguing over what's "respectful" and what isn't. Any more issues like this and the thread'll be closed.
  • petemish wrote: »
    I also think that Rey (and her origins) reflect what Luke was for us before Empire came out. Just a random kid, with some amazing powers even he didn't know about who got caught up in this story. He was a bit of an everyman for kids - maybe you could grow up to be a hero. That changed with Empire and particularly Jedi (and even more with the prequels) where you realise that it was all destiny. The thing I liked the most about TLJ is it reverts back to that sense that anyone could possibly be a Jedi it doesn't matter who your parents were (and that applies to Rey and the kid with the broom). It's much interesting if the force is universal than dynastic, it will be interesting to see what JJ does with it but I really hope he doesn't retcon Rey's origins.

    I agree, and what I find even more uplifting with The Last Jedi is the notion that the Force doesn’t even belong to the jedi. It sort of challenge the Star Wars paradigm that the force has to be learned, channeled and mastered through jedi training when Luke basically touches on some Han-level cynicism towards the old knight order, talking about ”laser swords” and how it needs to end. That was some much needed fuel to the franchise imo.
  • Force awakens was a good start for the last jedi.

    Last Jedi was a disaster. Just because people bought the movie doesn't make it good. I personally bought the last jedi on blu ray because I didn't see it in theatres. Certainly wasn't as good as I was hoping.

    Heres what I didn't like.

    Finn should've been force sensitive.

    I doubt Luke would've became a jerk hiding on a small planet in the unknown regions.

    I also doubt that Luke wouldn't care if both Chewie and R2D2, two of his closest friends, pleading for help. He literally temporarily stopped his Jedi training at the *suggestion* that his friends were in danger at cloud city. Even if he witnessed his Jedi order being destroyed by Ben and the first order, I don't believe he would ever give up.

    I was hoping for a large space battle taking place between Snoke's fleet and his mega star destroyer versus the resistance and it's allies which are mentioned several times. Instead, we got some unlikable purple haired lady defying the rules of hyperspace and smashing through the mega star destroyer. Really lazy writing imo. Hyperspace isn't just moving really fast.

    That whole scene with Leia flying through space didn't make any sense. Space is a vacuum. The air in her lungs would be sucked out through her mouth with ease, and she would instantly die.

    Snoke was a terrible villian. His death is on par with Boba Fett's when it comes to ****.

    Tons of plot armor. The First Order has extremely intelligent naval officers and even normal people could make a better strategy. The First Order's intelligence in that situation was borderline down syndrome. The Resurgent Battlecruisers literally did nothing during the assault. Mandator IV is not designed to fight on its own. Those orbital cannons take a lot of time to recharge, and considering there aren't any ventral point defense turrets or *any* turbolasers, the mandator IV could be destroyed easily by a single Free Virgillia class bunker buster, by just flying underneath the ship and shooting at those orbital cannons with the Virgillia's weapon systems. It's a joke.

    After Crait, the resistance only has like 15 members left. Luke dies for some reason, Rey, the ultimate Ma-Rey Sue, somehow moves like 50 boulders at once with 2 minutes of training, which each probably weigh like 80 pounds, with little to no struggle. It was difficult for Luke Skywalker, the chosen one and the son of Anakin Skywalker, to lift 3 boulders at once on Dagobah, being trained by the Former grand master of the Jedi Order. He couldn't even come close to lifting his X-Wing out of that swamp, It even took Yoda a bit of work to get it out.

    I don't hate the movie, I just don't think it was a good sequel. I seriously don't know how Episode IX is even going to be possible, the resistance is outnumbered 1000 - 1 at the end of the Last Jedi, not to mention even if they do cripple the First Order somehow, as Rey said, they control most of the major systems, I.E. the Deep/Inner Core, so again, if the 15 man Resistance can cripple the comparatively massive First Order, there are still a ton of FO forces scattered en masse across the Galaxy, and according to canon, the First order has a ton of ships left over from the GCW, like Imperial II's, old tie fighters, etc. They can't be stopped by 15 people on a YT-1300 Corellian light freighter. I know, the Falcon is a heck of a ship, but regardless, shes past her hay day.

    That MC85 dreadnaught was the only ship of that size left.

    Thats my opinion, let me know if you disagree.













  • Thats my opinion, let me know if you disagree.

    I disagree and I feel fortunate, based on your comments about The Last Jedi, that you aren’t the one making these films. I can’t imagine a more shallow Star Wars experience personally. There are however people that’d love your version of the film.

    Oh, and if you think Rey is a Mary Sue character, you might wanna read up on the term. Strong character, yes. Mary Sue, no.
  • I was looking forward to watching The Last Jedi but by the end of the movie I was just glad it was over. I left the cinema not bothered about what happens to any of the characters or how this trilogy ends.

    There isn't even one big reason why I dislike this film and any plot choice I disagreed with I wouldn't mind in isolation. It just felt like one poor plot twist and one grating joke after another.
  • Snoke wrote: »
    Looking at the top-selling Blu-Rays in the US this year, it's clear to see that people don't hate The Last Jedi, and the haters are indeed a vocal minority. All the whining about 'bad writing' or 'betrayal of a legacy' or whatever other nonsense is spewed can take a back seat to the fact that this film resonated with people as much as, if not more than, films like Black Panther or The Greatest Showman. Personally, every time I watch it I like it more and more. Turns out YouTube is NOT a good measure of quality or overall audience approval.

    https://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/bluray-sales/2018

    This is actually quite amusing.

    Look at the box office for The Last Jedi. At a first glance it is rather impressive, the film generating 1.3 billion dollars. But now let's actually analyze that number.

    The Last Jedi fell by 76% on its second Friday and a total of 68% on its second weekend, being the "largest second-weekend drop of the franchise" ever. This is explicit evidence people were excited to see the film but were ultimately disappointed after they did see it and thus decided not to watch it again, hence the huge drop.

    Moreso, take the Last Jedi and analyze the surrounding Star Wars films and their box offices. The Force Awakens generated over 2 billion dollars and Rogue One, which was a spin-off and not even part of the main trilogy, generated over 1 billion dollars. Yet after the Last Jedi released, the following Star Wars film (SOLO) failed miserably at the box office, generating only 390 million dollars with a budget of 275 million. Again, more evidence the film disapointed many.

    Heck, even look at toy sales. Retail orders for the Last Jedi toys fell by 47 percent from the previous year. Yes, the previous year, in which Rogue One, a spinoff movie, was released.

    That brings us to Blu-ray sales, which you used as evidence. According to the same website you cited, The Last Jedi made a total of 85 million dollars in video sales, 69 million of that being from Blu-ray. Now compare that to the Force Awakens which generated a total of 190 million dollars from video sales, 152 million of that from Blu-ray. The Force Awakens made about 30-40 percent more than The Last Jedi at the box office yet somehow made over 50 percent more than the Last Jedi in video sales. Even Rogue One, which made 250 million dollars less than the Last Jedi at the box office, actually made about the same as the Last Jedi in video sales, making 84 million dollars in total video sales, 66 million of that being Blu-ray.

    Bottom line is this: any popular franchise will generate a lot of money; that's obvious. The real determination of how well that franchise is growing however is comparing every new release to previous releases. Citing total numbers doesn't prove a thing. But I'm sure you knew that.

    Cited websites:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Last_Jedi

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solo:_A_Star_Wars_Story

    https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Star-Wars-Ep-VIII-The-Last-Jedi#tab=cast-and-crew

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/lukethompson/2017/12/21/why-arent-star-wars-toys-selling-as-well-this-year/amp/

    https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Star-Wars-Ep-VII-The-Force-Awakens#tab=summary

    https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Rogue-One-A-Star-Wars-Story#tab=summary

    Nice reply, good to see the facts.
  • SourceFroob
    3 posts Member
    edited September 16

    Thats my opinion, let me know if you disagree.

    I disagree and I feel fortunate, based on your comments about The Last Jedi, that you aren’t the one making these films. I can’t imagine a more shallow Star Wars experience personally. There are however people that’d love your version of the film.

    Oh, and if you think Rey is a Mary Sue character, you might wanna read up on the term. Strong character, yes. Mary Sue, no.

    She is a mary sue. What struggle does she have? Is there any serious character development? The closest thing she has to a "struggle" is her dead parents (which she lived fine on her own without) and maybe the resistance. Thats it.

    She literally has no flaws. She defeated Kylo Ren, in 5 minutes, who is a trained Dark Jedi, and one who is *very* fortunate in the way of the force, being that he not only has skywalker blood but was trained by Luke Skywalker, in which it took him 3 feature films to even come close to defeating Vader. In that time he lost his hand on Bespin, his mentor was murdered, *and* he had to train for possibly months with Yoda to get where he was in Episode VI.

    Rey learned how to fly the MilFalc like a professional in a few days, and even managed to shoot three tie fighters with one shot on crait. (han would cream himself if he ever managed that)

    And yes, I did look up the definition.

    A mary sue is defined as:

    "an original character (oc) and has no flaws. Of course the author of this oc will say "they are clumsy" or "they are not very good at maths" or whatever. They will most probably have a power or an evil twin/ dark side. They also might have an impossible bloodline. Such as a half werewolf or half fairy."

    Seems pretty similar to Ma-rey sue. :#

    Post edited by IronSoldier on
  • WarfareKiller41
    5879 posts Member
    edited September 16
    I think TLJ was great, but I hate the way Lucasfilm is treating the fanbase.
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    Army or not, you must realize....you are doomed.
  • petemish wrote: »
    I like it too and can't understand all the hate. I'm of a generation that I could see the latter movies of the OT in the cinema (well ROTJ at least, I'm not THAT old) and have been a fan all of my life. I didn't hate the prequels as much as I was supposed to at the time, the biggest problem I actually had them was the over reliance on preexisting characters (did R2 and C3P0 need to be in the prequels at all? And why include Chewie? That was just unnecessary) as well as how the movies didn't quite tie up in a bow to lead into the OT (particularly Padme, it would have made more sense if she'd had the twins in secret towards the start of ROTS and told Annakin they died in childbirth because she was fearful of him - would work for his descent towards Darth and would have given her a bonding moment with Leia at least). But what I loved about the prequels was all of the world building, a lot of pop culture SW references actually come from the prequels and not the OT.

    As for the TFA and TLJ I think they did a great job of re-balancing and trod a line between the OT and the PT. In the way that the PT made the world bigger, the ST made the OT characters more complex and nuanced, it built in a massive way on character which has not been seen to that extent in SW before at least in the movies. As for Luke, a comparison I would use would be Logan and the earlier movie iterations of the character. I appreciate there is comic book precedence here but if there wasn't the character had fundamentally changed and become more nihilistic as a direct impact of numerous tragedies. He is absolutely changed from the character in X-Men and X2. That movie was (pretty much) universally lauded and the thing that made it so great was the impact of grief on the characters, why should that be any different for Luke? If people don't grow or change it is a much less interesting narrative and much less satisfying story.

    Absolutely spot-on, sir.
    #VestedinVesti #InTrydlingWeTrust #DennistheDefinitive #BettingonBen
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  • So... Black Panther wasn't a smashing success, then. A film widely lauded by most moviegoers, lagging WAY behind a film on which opinion was split.

    This means that overall Blu-Ray sales are down for the year, and The Last Jedi is still running away with the lead.
    #VestedinVesti #InTrydlingWeTrust #DennistheDefinitive #BettingonBen
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  • DaxStorm wrote: »
    I didn't like it. I watched it 3 time in the cinema and once again on the telly, I read the rebuttals and can understand what he was trying to do, it didn't change my opinion of the film though, it was just a step to far away from the Star Wars format and dismissed everything that JJ had setup to follow his own direction.

    Actually if you look at it again, Rian only answers the questions J.J.'s script posed. The Force Awakens sets up a bunch of mysteries with J.J.'s 'Mystery Box', and Rian paid them off. Not always the payoff you wanted, but paid off just the same. Remember it was J.J. that put Luke on that island. Han in TFA says, "Luke felt responsible so he left." J.J. didn't put him there because he needed a ride. Luke felt responsible and Rian made it plausible. That's just one example. Different point of view and all that.
    #VestedinVesti #InTrydlingWeTrust #DennistheDefinitive #BettingonBen
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  • Old Jedi on a hike
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    Young Jedi on a hike
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    Old Jedi and young Jedi on a hike
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This discussion has been closed.