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November Community Calendar

Heroes are no longer the priority. Add content for troopers.

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Replies

  • ID_8615 wrote: »
    Well by definition of “crutch” then vehicles and reinforcements are crutches as well. Especially how easy points accumulate in vehicles compared to any other class.

    Don’t see how hero’s are the only crutch, anything that makes gameplay easier would be one. Can’t leave them out. And especially in CS, I would even say hero’s arent the crutch but vehicles are the sole one.

    It’s not the hero’s fault that nobody shoots them

    Sure - let's break this down again, shall we?
    When you design a game, you have essentially 3 or 4 basic variables to work with. Mobility, Health, Firepower, Recovery (if that's a thing: BF2015 it was for the base troopers, but not vehicles and heroes---but in Battlefront 2, it is). For all the base-4 troopers, all things said, those 4 aspects are within reason of one another. In rational game design imbalances are created to foment interesting game play. But, imbalances are kept in check by deducting one value for another. An increase in health is offset by a decrease in mobility---e.g., the Heavy Class trooper. When the Heavy goes in to Rapid Fire mode, his mobility is cut down. An increase in Fire power is offset by a decrease in mobility.

    Vehicles and base Enforcers follow these principles fairly well. Vehicles (on the ground) are easy to hit (have a larger hitbox than players, typically), and tanks are more cumbersome. They have additional health and firepower, but their mobility is limited... especially in places like Naboo. Star fighters are so difficult to maneuver, it's practically impossible to line up a true strafing run (except on Crait, but most players are in the tunnels anyway). Health Regen is also slower. The base enforcers - Dark Troopers and Wookie Warriors, e.g. - also have trade offs in mobility for their added fire power and health. Essentially a jacked up Heavy trooper.

    These do not break the equation NEARLY as much as Aerials, Infiltrators, and Heroes do. DICE threw out nearly every tenet of Game Design when they went on their POWER binge and created these classes. (BP cost could be used as an argument, but then I have several bones to pick with you about how the BP system is designed.) Aerials have sensational mobility, great firepower, good health, small hit box, standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Infiltrators have phenomenal health and firepower, small hit box, standard regen, and good mobility. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Heroes have sensational health, firepower, mobility, small hit box (ultra small for Yoda), and standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.

    Now, do you still want to champion the argument that its not the heroes fault nobody shoots them?

    So we’re gonna act like each class doesn’t have 2-3 effective ways to deal with hero’s?!
    Shotgun, Granada
    Sentry, detonate charge or however you spell it
    Turret, blast command to give you free ammo
    Stinger infiltrator

    People look for more “help me against hero’s” excuses than actually using what they have to kill hero’s ☹️. You’re not gonna win 1v1 against a hero and that’s fair. You’ll usually win 3/4 v 1 against a hero if everyone can use what they have.

    And arcs and jet droids have quite a large hit box. And 2 of the 3 classes have abilities that make them run faster than every other class. And isn’t the aerials health lower than the other enforcers?! And arcs run just as slow or fast as most of the classes, not accounting for a star card that gives them absorber dodge. Kinda nitpicking, try using a hero and run straight to a heavy using a sentry, lemme know if those trade offs work in your favor, not to mention most hero’s have a bigger hit box than troopers except 2/3/4.

    If this was the case that hero’s have no drawbacks then hero’s would never die in games since they are all powerful, but even a stinger pistol can kill god apparently

    Great post. very well put. The Hero moaning does get tiresome. They really aren't a big deal if you use some sense.

    I’m glad we can find common ground if you’re not being sarcastic 🤘🏻😊

    My problem with Heroes is not that they are unkillable, but the fact that they are an utter nuisance and the whole match becomes about the Heroes, running, killing or dying to them, instead of the Objective. I mean you can try, but Heroes just make it more of a chore than a fun game experience

    I would agree the last phase of GA maps is all about who has better hero play and the troopers are just for obj play, that’s an issue with 4 hero’s each im with ya. But 1-2 hero’s keeps the Star Wars feel to me, no other game can replicate the “hero” factor. Ive been a believer that phase 1 shouldn’t have hero’s and phase 2 should get 1 per side and 2 per side for the final phases. It’s a stretch but idk

    1-2 Heroes is fine with me, obviously I’d prefer none, but that is highly unrealistic and I agree, it does add to the unique Star Wars feel

    Does it?

    Solo, Leia, Calrissien, the bird from inferno squad (I can't believe I've forgotten her name) etc are Star Wars legends but in terms of abilities their pretty much normal (I know Leia later goes on to become immortal Mary Poppins) their health and ability to regenerate should be no more than the average trooper.
    In fact considering most don't wear body armour it should be less.

    And as always, it's not about whether killing Heroes is hard or easy. It's that some people prefer to fight on a level playing field for all, it's just what floats our boat.

    And if this is what you loved about previous Battlefront titles it's what we haven't got in this one, not one single poxy mode and the infantry mechanics are just so sub par.

    Best way for anyone who disagrees that the infantry crowd deserve this, imagine in the next title that Dice decide to back to the primary focus being Infantry. No hero only modes and the base hero selection and abilities that you get at launch are all you'll receive for the entire duration of Battlefront 3.

    Be honest are you telling me the Herolords wouldn't be on here kicking off?

    Agree. Hopefully bf3, if there is one, will go back to being a shooter first and focus on infantry again with heros as support. The herolords currently have their hero game with bf2. We need dz/cargo again, all stats, private matches, more options, more infantry play, and most of all a balanced game that rewards skill. They should email everyone with an ea account that’s actually logged in and played bf15/2 what they prefer, a shooter based game or a hero based game.


    To the last part of your post, hero mains wouldn’t even be here in this was infantry focused, most weren’t here for bf15. It’s the same as most all the 15 guys I know, 99% have long left bf2 because they don’t just dislike this game, they seem to hate it. We need those guys back because they’re Starwars fans to, something this crew seems to have forgot.
  • ID_8615 wrote: »
    Well by definition of “crutch” then vehicles and reinforcements are crutches as well. Especially how easy points accumulate in vehicles compared to any other class.

    Don’t see how hero’s are the only crutch, anything that makes gameplay easier would be one. Can’t leave them out. And especially in CS, I would even say hero’s arent the crutch but vehicles are the sole one.

    It’s not the hero’s fault that nobody shoots them

    Sure - let's break this down again, shall we?
    When you design a game, you have essentially 3 or 4 basic variables to work with. Mobility, Health, Firepower, Recovery (if that's a thing: BF2015 it was for the base troopers, but not vehicles and heroes---but in Battlefront 2, it is). For all the base-4 troopers, all things said, those 4 aspects are within reason of one another. In rational game design imbalances are created to foment interesting game play. But, imbalances are kept in check by deducting one value for another. An increase in health is offset by a decrease in mobility---e.g., the Heavy Class trooper. When the Heavy goes in to Rapid Fire mode, his mobility is cut down. An increase in Fire power is offset by a decrease in mobility.

    Vehicles and base Enforcers follow these principles fairly well. Vehicles (on the ground) are easy to hit (have a larger hitbox than players, typically), and tanks are more cumbersome. They have additional health and firepower, but their mobility is limited... especially in places like Naboo. Star fighters are so difficult to maneuver, it's practically impossible to line up a true strafing run (except on Crait, but most players are in the tunnels anyway). Health Regen is also slower. The base enforcers - Dark Troopers and Wookie Warriors, e.g. - also have trade offs in mobility for their added fire power and health. Essentially a jacked up Heavy trooper.

    These do not break the equation NEARLY as much as Aerials, Infiltrators, and Heroes do. DICE threw out nearly every tenet of Game Design when they went on their POWER binge and created these classes. (BP cost could be used as an argument, but then I have several bones to pick with you about how the BP system is designed.) Aerials have sensational mobility, great firepower, good health, small hit box, standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Infiltrators have phenomenal health and firepower, small hit box, standard regen, and good mobility. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Heroes have sensational health, firepower, mobility, small hit box (ultra small for Yoda), and standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.

    Now, do you still want to champion the argument that its not the heroes fault nobody shoots them?

    So we’re gonna act like each class doesn’t have 2-3 effective ways to deal with hero’s?!
    Shotgun, Granada
    Sentry, detonate charge or however you spell it
    Turret, blast command to give you free ammo
    Stinger infiltrator

    People look for more “help me against hero’s” excuses than actually using what they have to kill hero’s ☹️. You’re not gonna win 1v1 against a hero and that’s fair. You’ll usually win 3/4 v 1 against a hero if everyone can use what they have.

    And arcs and jet droids have quite a large hit box. And 2 of the 3 classes have abilities that make them run faster than every other class. And isn’t the aerials health lower than the other enforcers?! And arcs run just as slow or fast as most of the classes, not accounting for a star card that gives them absorber dodge. Kinda nitpicking, try using a hero and run straight to a heavy using a sentry, lemme know if those trade offs work in your favor, not to mention most hero’s have a bigger hit box than troopers except 2/3/4.

    If this was the case that hero’s have no drawbacks then hero’s would never die in games since they are all powerful, but even a stinger pistol can kill god apparently

    Great post. very well put. The Hero moaning does get tiresome. They really aren't a big deal if you use some sense.

    I’m glad we can find common ground if you’re not being sarcastic 🤘🏻😊

    My problem with Heroes is not that they are unkillable, but the fact that they are an utter nuisance and the whole match becomes about the Heroes, running, killing or dying to them, instead of the Objective. I mean you can try, but Heroes just make it more of a chore than a fun game experience

    I would agree the last phase of GA maps is all about who has better hero play and the troopers are just for obj play, that’s an issue with 4 hero’s each im with ya. But 1-2 hero’s keeps the Star Wars feel to me, no other game can replicate the “hero” factor. Ive been a believer that phase 1 shouldn’t have hero’s and phase 2 should get 1 per side and 2 per side for the final phases. It’s a stretch but idk

    1-2 Heroes is fine with me, obviously I’d prefer none, but that is highly unrealistic and I agree, it does add to the unique Star Wars feel

    Does it?

    Solo, Leia, Calrissien, the bird from inferno squad (I can't believe I've forgotten her name) etc are Star Wars legends but in terms of abilities their pretty much normal (I know Leia later goes on to become immortal Mary Poppins) their health and ability to regenerate should be no more than the average trooper.
    In fact considering most don't wear body armour it should be less.

    And as always, it's not about whether killing Heroes is hard or easy. It's that some people prefer to fight on a level playing field for all, it's just what floats our boat.

    And if this is what you loved about previous Battlefront titles it's what we haven't got in this one, not one single poxy mode and the infantry mechanics are just so sub par.

    Best way for anyone who disagrees that the infantry crowd deserve this, imagine in the next title that Dice decide to back to the primary focus being Infantry. No hero only modes and the base hero selection and abilities that you get at launch are all you'll receive for the entire duration of Battlefront 3.

    Be honest are you telling me the Herolords wouldn't be on here kicking off?

    Hero’s and trooper were on a level playing field in every other battlefront game?!? Lol

    If you expect to have Star Wars Main Characters (hero’s/villains) to be on a level playing field that’s just silly, then they wouldn’t be worth using or “hero’s”. No other battlefront, if I’m not mistaken, had infantry only game modes. This one has 3? If you love objective trooper play what’s wrong with strike and extraction?! If you like having trooper v trooper fights what’s wrong with blast?!

    Most people that buy this game are enticed because of nostalgia and to play with hero’s, that’s just the flat out truth. The majority are not buying this game because of it being a 1st/3rd person successful shooter, because they’ll be disappointed. Hero’s in your game isn’t the problem, it’s how many and how often should be the problem. These “herolords” are far from the issue 🔮

    I don't think I've ever stated that Heroes and troopers have ever been level in previous games? Just making a point of interest (to me at least).

    In regard to modes like Blast, Strike or Extraction again it comes down to craving a gaming experience that provides a level and balanced playing field. It's why modes like DropZone and Cargo are so praised here, because it provided that experience.

    Consider what I've just said and now have a think about the 'Infantry' modes this game offers from our perspective. Why do you think we don't really consider them Infantry modes at all?

    I absolutely agree that Heroes are an integral part of the Star Wars experience for the majority, I would never want them removed or downgraded in the way that Infantry play has been.
    But for me and others playing as a trooper is the Star Wars experience we love.

    I definitely don't think people buy this game because it's a successful shooter. Because it's not a good shooter at all. The infantry mechanics in comparison to every other Dice created game I've played are distinctly sub-par in BF2.

    But if you look at the gaming industry as a whole the 'shooter' franchise is just a cash making phenom. If you upgraded the infantry mechanics then you would draw in even more people to this game.
    Battlefront becomes more successful meaning even more funding and resources is put into content and before you know it everyones a winner.



  • Reinforcements are reinforcements, not weapons, weapons are weapons
    But those Reinforcements are holding weapons.

    So explain to me how I can use the DC-17 as a Heavy or the Droidekas blasters as an Assault
    Lol that's like asking me how to use the CR-2 as a Specialist.
    Some weapons are tied to certain classes, in this case a Reinforcement. You're telling me that just because a weapon isn't available for normal troopers, it's not a new weapon?
    Your journey nears its end.
    fg4b6t2kcplam2qmfrnt.gif
  • ID_8615 wrote: »
    Well by definition of “crutch” then vehicles and reinforcements are crutches as well. Especially how easy points accumulate in vehicles compared to any other class.

    Don’t see how hero’s are the only crutch, anything that makes gameplay easier would be one. Can’t leave them out. And especially in CS, I would even say hero’s arent the crutch but vehicles are the sole one.

    It’s not the hero’s fault that nobody shoots them

    Sure - let's break this down again, shall we?
    When you design a game, you have essentially 3 or 4 basic variables to work with. Mobility, Health, Firepower, Recovery (if that's a thing: BF2015 it was for the base troopers, but not vehicles and heroes---but in Battlefront 2, it is). For all the base-4 troopers, all things said, those 4 aspects are within reason of one another. In rational game design imbalances are created to foment interesting game play. But, imbalances are kept in check by deducting one value for another. An increase in health is offset by a decrease in mobility---e.g., the Heavy Class trooper. When the Heavy goes in to Rapid Fire mode, his mobility is cut down. An increase in Fire power is offset by a decrease in mobility.

    Vehicles and base Enforcers follow these principles fairly well. Vehicles (on the ground) are easy to hit (have a larger hitbox than players, typically), and tanks are more cumbersome. They have additional health and firepower, but their mobility is limited... especially in places like Naboo. Star fighters are so difficult to maneuver, it's practically impossible to line up a true strafing run (except on Crait, but most players are in the tunnels anyway). Health Regen is also slower. The base enforcers - Dark Troopers and Wookie Warriors, e.g. - also have trade offs in mobility for their added fire power and health. Essentially a jacked up Heavy trooper.

    These do not break the equation NEARLY as much as Aerials, Infiltrators, and Heroes do. DICE threw out nearly every tenet of Game Design when they went on their POWER binge and created these classes. (BP cost could be used as an argument, but then I have several bones to pick with you about how the BP system is designed.) Aerials have sensational mobility, great firepower, good health, small hit box, standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Infiltrators have phenomenal health and firepower, small hit box, standard regen, and good mobility. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Heroes have sensational health, firepower, mobility, small hit box (ultra small for Yoda), and standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.

    Now, do you still want to champion the argument that its not the heroes fault nobody shoots them?

    So we’re gonna act like each class doesn’t have 2-3 effective ways to deal with hero’s?!
    Shotgun, Granada
    Sentry, detonate charge or however you spell it
    Turret, blast command to give you free ammo
    Stinger infiltrator

    People look for more “help me against hero’s” excuses than actually using what they have to kill hero’s ☹️. You’re not gonna win 1v1 against a hero and that’s fair. You’ll usually win 3/4 v 1 against a hero if everyone can use what they have.

    And arcs and jet droids have quite a large hit box. And 2 of the 3 classes have abilities that make them run faster than every other class. And isn’t the aerials health lower than the other enforcers?! And arcs run just as slow or fast as most of the classes, not accounting for a star card that gives them absorber dodge. Kinda nitpicking, try using a hero and run straight to a heavy using a sentry, lemme know if those trade offs work in your favor, not to mention most hero’s have a bigger hit box than troopers except 2/3/4.

    If this was the case that hero’s have no drawbacks then hero’s would never die in games since they are all powerful, but even a stinger pistol can kill god apparently

    Great post. very well put. The Hero moaning does get tiresome. They really aren't a big deal if you use some sense.

    I’m glad we can find common ground if you’re not being sarcastic 🤘🏻😊

    My problem with Heroes is not that they are unkillable, but the fact that they are an utter nuisance and the whole match becomes about the Heroes, running, killing or dying to them, instead of the Objective. I mean you can try, but Heroes just make it more of a chore than a fun game experience

    I would agree the last phase of GA maps is all about who has better hero play and the troopers are just for obj play, that’s an issue with 4 hero’s each im with ya. But 1-2 hero’s keeps the Star Wars feel to me, no other game can replicate the “hero” factor. Ive been a believer that phase 1 shouldn’t have hero’s and phase 2 should get 1 per side and 2 per side for the final phases. It’s a stretch but idk

    1-2 Heroes is fine with me, obviously I’d prefer none, but that is highly unrealistic and I agree, it does add to the unique Star Wars feel

    Does it?

    Solo, Leia, Calrissien, the bird from inferno squad (I can't believe I've forgotten her name) etc are Star Wars legends but in terms of abilities their pretty much normal (I know Leia later goes on to become immortal Mary Poppins) their health and ability to regenerate should be no more than the average trooper.
    In fact considering most don't wear body armour it should be less.

    And as always, it's not about whether killing Heroes is hard or easy. It's that some people prefer to fight on a level playing field for all, it's just what floats our boat.

    And if this is what you loved about previous Battlefront titles it's what we haven't got in this one, not one single poxy mode and the infantry mechanics are just so sub par.

    Best way for anyone who disagrees that the infantry crowd deserve this, imagine in the next title that Dice decide to back to the primary focus being Infantry. No hero only modes and the base hero selection and abilities that you get at launch are all you'll receive for the entire duration of Battlefront 3.

    Be honest are you telling me the Herolords wouldn't be on here kicking off?

    Hero’s and trooper were on a level playing field in every other battlefront game?!? Lol

    If you expect to have Star Wars Main Characters (hero’s/villains) to be on a level playing field that’s just silly, then they wouldn’t be worth using or “hero’s”. No other battlefront, if I’m not mistaken, had infantry only game modes. This one has 3? If you love objective trooper play what’s wrong with strike and extraction?! If you like having trooper v trooper fights what’s wrong with blast?!

    Most people that buy this game are enticed because of nostalgia and to play with hero’s, that’s just the flat out truth. The majority are not buying this game because of it being a 1st/3rd person successful shooter, because they’ll be disappointed. Hero’s in your game isn’t the problem, it’s how many and how often should be the problem. These “herolords” are far from the issue 🔮

    I don't think I've ever stated that Heroes and troopers have ever been level in previous games? Just making a point of interest (to me at least).

    In regard to modes like Blast, Strike or Extraction again it comes down to craving a gaming experience that provides a level and balanced playing field. It's why modes like DropZone and Cargo are so praised here, because it provided that experience.

    Consider what I've just said and now have a think about the 'Infantry' modes this game offers from our perspective. Why do you think we don't really consider them Infantry modes at all?

    I absolutely agree that Heroes are an integral part of the Star Wars experience for the majority, I would never want them removed or downgraded in the way that Infantry play has been.
    But for me and others playing as a trooper is the Star Wars experience we love.

    I definitely don't think people buy this game because it's a successful shooter. Because it's not a good shooter at all. The infantry mechanics in comparison to every other Dice created game I've played are distinctly sub-par in BF2.

    But if you look at the gaming industry as a whole the 'shooter' franchise is just a cash making phenom. If you upgraded the infantry mechanics then you would draw in even more people to this game.
    Battlefront becomes more successful meaning even more funding and resources is put into content and before you know it everyones a winner.



    If we agree the shooter mechanic is sub par at best, what’s the benefit of an infantry only mode? People would only use the SE and the 4th and 3rd unlockable assault gun? Which would I turn cause more “nerf buff” threads for guns.

    Assuming you don’t think those modes are fair because of enforcers but they are infantry and can’t you only have 1 or 2 max?


    Your premise was that you believe majority or some hero shooters should be the health of normal shooters, which would take away their greatest strength and usability. You also say people are looking for an even playing field against hero’s, what does that mean? 1v1 a hero with a trooper shouldn’t be in the troopers favor EVER. It happens that the trooper wins sometimes but not the majority or even the norm. Strength in numbers against a hero usually works in majority.

    Trooper game mode is cool and all but it’s just beating a dead horse at that point. As I have pointed out, all they need to do is Limit the usage of hero’s and the trooper bros wouldn’t be so hysterical
  • ID_8615 wrote: »
    Well by definition of “crutch” then vehicles and reinforcements are crutches as well. Especially how easy points accumulate in vehicles compared to any other class.

    Don’t see how hero’s are the only crutch, anything that makes gameplay easier would be one. Can’t leave them out. And especially in CS, I would even say hero’s arent the crutch but vehicles are the sole one.

    It’s not the hero’s fault that nobody shoots them

    Sure - let's break this down again, shall we?
    When you design a game, you have essentially 3 or 4 basic variables to work with. Mobility, Health, Firepower, Recovery (if that's a thing: BF2015 it was for the base troopers, but not vehicles and heroes---but in Battlefront 2, it is). For all the base-4 troopers, all things said, those 4 aspects are within reason of one another. In rational game design imbalances are created to foment interesting game play. But, imbalances are kept in check by deducting one value for another. An increase in health is offset by a decrease in mobility---e.g., the Heavy Class trooper. When the Heavy goes in to Rapid Fire mode, his mobility is cut down. An increase in Fire power is offset by a decrease in mobility.

    Vehicles and base Enforcers follow these principles fairly well. Vehicles (on the ground) are easy to hit (have a larger hitbox than players, typically), and tanks are more cumbersome. They have additional health and firepower, but their mobility is limited... especially in places like Naboo. Star fighters are so difficult to maneuver, it's practically impossible to line up a true strafing run (except on Crait, but most players are in the tunnels anyway). Health Regen is also slower. The base enforcers - Dark Troopers and Wookie Warriors, e.g. - also have trade offs in mobility for their added fire power and health. Essentially a jacked up Heavy trooper.

    These do not break the equation NEARLY as much as Aerials, Infiltrators, and Heroes do. DICE threw out nearly every tenet of Game Design when they went on their POWER binge and created these classes. (BP cost could be used as an argument, but then I have several bones to pick with you about how the BP system is designed.) Aerials have sensational mobility, great firepower, good health, small hit box, standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Infiltrators have phenomenal health and firepower, small hit box, standard regen, and good mobility. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Heroes have sensational health, firepower, mobility, small hit box (ultra small for Yoda), and standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.

    Now, do you still want to champion the argument that its not the heroes fault nobody shoots them?

    So we’re gonna act like each class doesn’t have 2-3 effective ways to deal with hero’s?!
    Shotgun, Granada
    Sentry, detonate charge or however you spell it
    Turret, blast command to give you free ammo
    Stinger infiltrator

    People look for more “help me against hero’s” excuses than actually using what they have to kill hero’s ☹️. You’re not gonna win 1v1 against a hero and that’s fair. You’ll usually win 3/4 v 1 against a hero if everyone can use what they have.

    And arcs and jet droids have quite a large hit box. And 2 of the 3 classes have abilities that make them run faster than every other class. And isn’t the aerials health lower than the other enforcers?! And arcs run just as slow or fast as most of the classes, not accounting for a star card that gives them absorber dodge. Kinda nitpicking, try using a hero and run straight to a heavy using a sentry, lemme know if those trade offs work in your favor, not to mention most hero’s have a bigger hit box than troopers except 2/3/4.

    If this was the case that hero’s have no drawbacks then hero’s would never die in games since they are all powerful, but even a stinger pistol can kill god apparently

    Great post. very well put. The Hero moaning does get tiresome. They really aren't a big deal if you use some sense.

    I’m glad we can find common ground if you’re not being sarcastic 🤘🏻😊

    My problem with Heroes is not that they are unkillable, but the fact that they are an utter nuisance and the whole match becomes about the Heroes, running, killing or dying to them, instead of the Objective. I mean you can try, but Heroes just make it more of a chore than a fun game experience

    I would agree the last phase of GA maps is all about who has better hero play and the troopers are just for obj play, that’s an issue with 4 hero’s each im with ya. But 1-2 hero’s keeps the Star Wars feel to me, no other game can replicate the “hero” factor. Ive been a believer that phase 1 shouldn’t have hero’s and phase 2 should get 1 per side and 2 per side for the final phases. It’s a stretch but idk

    1-2 Heroes is fine with me, obviously I’d prefer none, but that is highly unrealistic and I agree, it does add to the unique Star Wars feel

    Does it?

    Solo, Leia, Calrissien, the bird from inferno squad (I can't believe I've forgotten her name) etc are Star Wars legends but in terms of abilities their pretty much normal (I know Leia later goes on to become immortal Mary Poppins) their health and ability to regenerate should be no more than the average trooper.
    In fact considering most don't wear body armour it should be less.

    And as always, it's not about whether killing Heroes is hard or easy. It's that some people prefer to fight on a level playing field for all, it's just what floats our boat.

    And if this is what you loved about previous Battlefront titles it's what we haven't got in this one, not one single poxy mode and the infantry mechanics are just so sub par.

    Best way for anyone who disagrees that the infantry crowd deserve this, imagine in the next title that Dice decide to back to the primary focus being Infantry. No hero only modes and the base hero selection and abilities that you get at launch are all you'll receive for the entire duration of Battlefront 3.

    Be honest are you telling me the Herolords wouldn't be on here kicking off?

    Hero’s and trooper were on a level playing field in every other battlefront game?!? Lol

    If you expect to have Star Wars Main Characters (hero’s/villains) to be on a level playing field that’s just silly, then they wouldn’t be worth using or “hero’s”. No other battlefront, if I’m not mistaken, had infantry only game modes. This one has 3? If you love objective trooper play what’s wrong with strike and extraction?! If you like having trooper v trooper fights what’s wrong with blast?!

    Most people that buy this game are enticed because of nostalgia and to play with hero’s, that’s just the flat out truth. The majority are not buying this game because of it being a 1st/3rd person successful shooter, because they’ll be disappointed. Hero’s in your game isn’t the problem, it’s how many and how often should be the problem. These “herolords” are far from the issue 🔮

    I don't think I've ever stated that Heroes and troopers have ever been level in previous games? Just making a point of interest (to me at least).

    In regard to modes like Blast, Strike or Extraction again it comes down to craving a gaming experience that provides a level and balanced playing field. It's why modes like DropZone and Cargo are so praised here, because it provided that experience.

    Consider what I've just said and now have a think about the 'Infantry' modes this game offers from our perspective. Why do you think we don't really consider them Infantry modes at all?

    I absolutely agree that Heroes are an integral part of the Star Wars experience for the majority, I would never want them removed or downgraded in the way that Infantry play has been.
    But for me and others playing as a trooper is the Star Wars experience we love.

    I definitely don't think people buy this game because it's a successful shooter. Because it's not a good shooter at all. The infantry mechanics in comparison to every other Dice created game I've played are distinctly sub-par in BF2.

    But if you look at the gaming industry as a whole the 'shooter' franchise is just a cash making phenom. If you upgraded the infantry mechanics then you would draw in even more people to this game.
    Battlefront becomes more successful meaning even more funding and resources is put into content and before you know it everyones a winner.



    If we agree the shooter mechanic is sub par at best, what’s the benefit of an infantry only mode? People would only use the SE and the 4th and 3rd unlockable assault gun? Which would I turn cause more “nerf buff” threads for guns.

    Assuming you don’t think those modes are fair because of enforcers but they are infantry and can’t you only have 1 or 2 max?


    Your premise was that you believe majority or some hero shooters should be the health of normal shooters, which would take away their greatest strength and usability. You also say people are looking for an even playing field against hero’s, what does that mean? 1v1 a hero with a trooper shouldn’t be in the troopers favor EVER. It happens that the trooper wins sometimes but not the majority or even the norm. Strength in numbers against a hero usually works in majority.

    Trooper game mode is cool and all but it’s just beating a dead horse at that point. As I have pointed out, all they need to do is Limit the usage of hero’s and the trooper bros wouldn’t be so hysterical

    I’d play a trooper only mode and enjoy it. Itd be a nice change of pace. I personally think it’s a crime that since there’s a HU event, why we can’t have trooper only events once a month. HU and TROOPERS UNLEASHED should each be once a month
  • I also find extraction a fairly popular mode on this forum
  • ID_8615 wrote: »
    Well by definition of “crutch” then vehicles and reinforcements are crutches as well. Especially how easy points accumulate in vehicles compared to any other class.

    Don’t see how hero’s are the only crutch, anything that makes gameplay easier would be one. Can’t leave them out. And especially in CS, I would even say hero’s arent the crutch but vehicles are the sole one.

    It’s not the hero’s fault that nobody shoots them

    Sure - let's break this down again, shall we?
    When you design a game, you have essentially 3 or 4 basic variables to work with. Mobility, Health, Firepower, Recovery (if that's a thing: BF2015 it was for the base troopers, but not vehicles and heroes---but in Battlefront 2, it is). For all the base-4 troopers, all things said, those 4 aspects are within reason of one another. In rational game design imbalances are created to foment interesting game play. But, imbalances are kept in check by deducting one value for another. An increase in health is offset by a decrease in mobility---e.g., the Heavy Class trooper. When the Heavy goes in to Rapid Fire mode, his mobility is cut down. An increase in Fire power is offset by a decrease in mobility.

    Vehicles and base Enforcers follow these principles fairly well. Vehicles (on the ground) are easy to hit (have a larger hitbox than players, typically), and tanks are more cumbersome. They have additional health and firepower, but their mobility is limited... especially in places like Naboo. Star fighters are so difficult to maneuver, it's practically impossible to line up a true strafing run (except on Crait, but most players are in the tunnels anyway). Health Regen is also slower. The base enforcers - Dark Troopers and Wookie Warriors, e.g. - also have trade offs in mobility for their added fire power and health. Essentially a jacked up Heavy trooper.

    These do not break the equation NEARLY as much as Aerials, Infiltrators, and Heroes do. DICE threw out nearly every tenet of Game Design when they went on their POWER binge and created these classes. (BP cost could be used as an argument, but then I have several bones to pick with you about how the BP system is designed.) Aerials have sensational mobility, great firepower, good health, small hit box, standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Infiltrators have phenomenal health and firepower, small hit box, standard regen, and good mobility. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Heroes have sensational health, firepower, mobility, small hit box (ultra small for Yoda), and standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.

    Now, do you still want to champion the argument that its not the heroes fault nobody shoots them?

    So we’re gonna act like each class doesn’t have 2-3 effective ways to deal with hero’s?!
    Shotgun, Granada
    Sentry, detonate charge or however you spell it
    Turret, blast command to give you free ammo
    Stinger infiltrator

    People look for more “help me against hero’s” excuses than actually using what they have to kill hero’s ☹️. You’re not gonna win 1v1 against a hero and that’s fair. You’ll usually win 3/4 v 1 against a hero if everyone can use what they have.

    And arcs and jet droids have quite a large hit box. And 2 of the 3 classes have abilities that make them run faster than every other class. And isn’t the aerials health lower than the other enforcers?! And arcs run just as slow or fast as most of the classes, not accounting for a star card that gives them absorber dodge. Kinda nitpicking, try using a hero and run straight to a heavy using a sentry, lemme know if those trade offs work in your favor, not to mention most hero’s have a bigger hit box than troopers except 2/3/4.

    If this was the case that hero’s have no drawbacks then hero’s would never die in games since they are all powerful, but even a stinger pistol can kill god apparently

    Great post. very well put. The Hero moaning does get tiresome. They really aren't a big deal if you use some sense.

    I’m glad we can find common ground if you’re not being sarcastic 🤘🏻😊

    My problem with Heroes is not that they are unkillable, but the fact that they are an utter nuisance and the whole match becomes about the Heroes, running, killing or dying to them, instead of the Objective. I mean you can try, but Heroes just make it more of a chore than a fun game experience

    I would agree the last phase of GA maps is all about who has better hero play and the troopers are just for obj play, that’s an issue with 4 hero’s each im with ya. But 1-2 hero’s keeps the Star Wars feel to me, no other game can replicate the “hero” factor. Ive been a believer that phase 1 shouldn’t have hero’s and phase 2 should get 1 per side and 2 per side for the final phases. It’s a stretch but idk

    1-2 Heroes is fine with me, obviously I’d prefer none, but that is highly unrealistic and I agree, it does add to the unique Star Wars feel

    Does it?

    Solo, Leia, Calrissien, the bird from inferno squad (I can't believe I've forgotten her name) etc are Star Wars legends but in terms of abilities their pretty much normal (I know Leia later goes on to become immortal Mary Poppins) their health and ability to regenerate should be no more than the average trooper.
    In fact considering most don't wear body armour it should be less.

    And as always, it's not about whether killing Heroes is hard or easy. It's that some people prefer to fight on a level playing field for all, it's just what floats our boat.

    And if this is what you loved about previous Battlefront titles it's what we haven't got in this one, not one single poxy mode and the infantry mechanics are just so sub par.

    Best way for anyone who disagrees that the infantry crowd deserve this, imagine in the next title that Dice decide to back to the primary focus being Infantry. No hero only modes and the base hero selection and abilities that you get at launch are all you'll receive for the entire duration of Battlefront 3.

    Be honest are you telling me the Herolords wouldn't be on here kicking off?

    Hero’s and trooper were on a level playing field in every other battlefront game?!? Lol

    If you expect to have Star Wars Main Characters (hero’s/villains) to be on a level playing field that’s just silly, then they wouldn’t be worth using or “hero’s”. No other battlefront, if I’m not mistaken, had infantry only game modes. This one has 3? If you love objective trooper play what’s wrong with strike and extraction?! If you like having trooper v trooper fights what’s wrong with blast?!

    Most people that buy this game are enticed because of nostalgia and to play with hero’s, that’s just the flat out truth. The majority are not buying this game because of it being a 1st/3rd person successful shooter, because they’ll be disappointed. Hero’s in your game isn’t the problem, it’s how many and how often should be the problem. These “herolords” are far from the issue 🔮

    I don't think I've ever stated that Heroes and troopers have ever been level in previous games? Just making a point of interest (to me at least).

    In regard to modes like Blast, Strike or Extraction again it comes down to craving a gaming experience that provides a level and balanced playing field. It's why modes like DropZone and Cargo are so praised here, because it provided that experience.

    Consider what I've just said and now have a think about the 'Infantry' modes this game offers from our perspective. Why do you think we don't really consider them Infantry modes at all?

    I absolutely agree that Heroes are an integral part of the Star Wars experience for the majority, I would never want them removed or downgraded in the way that Infantry play has been.
    But for me and others playing as a trooper is the Star Wars experience we love.

    I definitely don't think people buy this game because it's a successful shooter. Because it's not a good shooter at all. The infantry mechanics in comparison to every other Dice created game I've played are distinctly sub-par in BF2.

    But if you look at the gaming industry as a whole the 'shooter' franchise is just a cash making phenom. If you upgraded the infantry mechanics then you would draw in even more people to this game.
    Battlefront becomes more successful meaning even more funding and resources is put into content and before you know it everyones a winner.



    If we agree the shooter mechanic is sub par at best, what’s the benefit of an infantry only mode? People would only use the SE and the 4th and 3rd unlockable assault gun? Which would I turn cause more “nerf buff” threads for guns.

    Assuming you don’t think those modes are fair because of enforcers but they are infantry and can’t you only have 1 or 2 max?


    Your premise was that you believe majority or some hero shooters should be the health of normal shooters, which would take away their greatest strength and usability. You also say people are looking for an even playing field against hero’s, what does that mean? 1v1 a hero with a trooper shouldn’t be in the troopers favor EVER. It happens that the trooper wins sometimes but not the majority or even the norm. Strength in numbers against a hero usually works in majority.

    Trooper game mode is cool and all but it’s just beating a dead horse at that point. As I have pointed out, all they need to do is Limit the usage of hero’s and the trooper bros wouldn’t be so hysterical

    Apologies I think I'm doing a terrible job of explaining myself. My point about Han, Lando and co was just that when you get right down to it, their basically just regular humans, no special Force powers or abilities granted by alien biology.

    Actually just realised Han (smuggler) Lando (gambler? gas mine owner?) aren't even trained for a war. They should definitely be naff in a ground war.

    Just musings, I didn't mean to imply they should be as weak as troopers.

    Although now I'm writing this personally I think I would like it if they where infantry options in a new class.

    In regard to an even playing field I don't mean Hero/Infantry. I mean for me Infantry/Infantry again like DropZone/Cargo and 2015 Blast.

    I'm not for banning heroes at all. I used to play Supremacy and I absolutely loved Extraction in 2015.

    The point is that there is a portion of the Battlefront fan base that has been ignored since launch.

    Your correct Reinforcements to me are just higher tier units and don't belong in a mode that is classed as 'Infantry'.
    And your right that the 'Shooter' mechanics have fallen so far behind that I don't think it will ever reach the heights of BF2015 Cargo etc, basically at this point I'll just take whatever I can get and if that's a Reinforcement free Strike I'll take it.

    But just one weekend, hell one day where it's Infantry and Vehicle only GA or CA (Is it Conquest Assault?) would be nice.
  • ID_8615 wrote: »
    Well by definition of “crutch” then vehicles and reinforcements are crutches as well. Especially how easy points accumulate in vehicles compared to any other class.

    Don’t see how hero’s are the only crutch, anything that makes gameplay easier would be one. Can’t leave them out. And especially in CS, I would even say hero’s arent the crutch but vehicles are the sole one.

    It’s not the hero’s fault that nobody shoots them

    Sure - let's break this down again, shall we?
    When you design a game, you have essentially 3 or 4 basic variables to work with. Mobility, Health, Firepower, Recovery (if that's a thing: BF2015 it was for the base troopers, but not vehicles and heroes---but in Battlefront 2, it is). For all the base-4 troopers, all things said, those 4 aspects are within reason of one another. In rational game design imbalances are created to foment interesting game play. But, imbalances are kept in check by deducting one value for another. An increase in health is offset by a decrease in mobility---e.g., the Heavy Class trooper. When the Heavy goes in to Rapid Fire mode, his mobility is cut down. An increase in Fire power is offset by a decrease in mobility.

    Vehicles and base Enforcers follow these principles fairly well. Vehicles (on the ground) are easy to hit (have a larger hitbox than players, typically), and tanks are more cumbersome. They have additional health and firepower, but their mobility is limited... especially in places like Naboo. Star fighters are so difficult to maneuver, it's practically impossible to line up a true strafing run (except on Crait, but most players are in the tunnels anyway). Health Regen is also slower. The base enforcers - Dark Troopers and Wookie Warriors, e.g. - also have trade offs in mobility for their added fire power and health. Essentially a jacked up Heavy trooper.

    These do not break the equation NEARLY as much as Aerials, Infiltrators, and Heroes do. DICE threw out nearly every tenet of Game Design when they went on their POWER binge and created these classes. (BP cost could be used as an argument, but then I have several bones to pick with you about how the BP system is designed.) Aerials have sensational mobility, great firepower, good health, small hit box, standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Infiltrators have phenomenal health and firepower, small hit box, standard regen, and good mobility. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Heroes have sensational health, firepower, mobility, small hit box (ultra small for Yoda), and standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.

    Now, do you still want to champion the argument that its not the heroes fault nobody shoots them?

    So we’re gonna act like each class doesn’t have 2-3 effective ways to deal with hero’s?!
    Shotgun, Granada
    Sentry, detonate charge or however you spell it
    Turret, blast command to give you free ammo
    Stinger infiltrator

    People look for more “help me against hero’s” excuses than actually using what they have to kill hero’s ☹️. You’re not gonna win 1v1 against a hero and that’s fair. You’ll usually win 3/4 v 1 against a hero if everyone can use what they have.

    And arcs and jet droids have quite a large hit box. And 2 of the 3 classes have abilities that make them run faster than every other class. And isn’t the aerials health lower than the other enforcers?! And arcs run just as slow or fast as most of the classes, not accounting for a star card that gives them absorber dodge. Kinda nitpicking, try using a hero and run straight to a heavy using a sentry, lemme know if those trade offs work in your favor, not to mention most hero’s have a bigger hit box than troopers except 2/3/4.

    If this was the case that hero’s have no drawbacks then hero’s would never die in games since they are all powerful, but even a stinger pistol can kill god apparently

    Great post. very well put. The Hero moaning does get tiresome. They really aren't a big deal if you use some sense.

    I’m glad we can find common ground if you’re not being sarcastic 🤘🏻😊

    My problem with Heroes is not that they are unkillable, but the fact that they are an utter nuisance and the whole match becomes about the Heroes, running, killing or dying to them, instead of the Objective. I mean you can try, but Heroes just make it more of a chore than a fun game experience

    I would agree the last phase of GA maps is all about who has better hero play and the troopers are just for obj play, that’s an issue with 4 hero’s each im with ya. But 1-2 hero’s keeps the Star Wars feel to me, no other game can replicate the “hero” factor. Ive been a believer that phase 1 shouldn’t have hero’s and phase 2 should get 1 per side and 2 per side for the final phases. It’s a stretch but idk

    1-2 Heroes is fine with me, obviously I’d prefer none, but that is highly unrealistic and I agree, it does add to the unique Star Wars feel

    Does it?

    Solo, Leia, Calrissien, the bird from inferno squad (I can't believe I've forgotten her name) etc are Star Wars legends but in terms of abilities their pretty much normal (I know Leia later goes on to become immortal Mary Poppins) their health and ability to regenerate should be no more than the average trooper.
    In fact considering most don't wear body armour it should be less.

    And as always, it's not about whether killing Heroes is hard or easy. It's that some people prefer to fight on a level playing field for all, it's just what floats our boat.

    And if this is what you loved about previous Battlefront titles it's what we haven't got in this one, not one single poxy mode and the infantry mechanics are just so sub par.

    Best way for anyone who disagrees that the infantry crowd deserve this, imagine in the next title that Dice decide to back to the primary focus being Infantry. No hero only modes and the base hero selection and abilities that you get at launch are all you'll receive for the entire duration of Battlefront 3.

    Be honest are you telling me the Herolords wouldn't be on here kicking off?

    Hero’s and trooper were on a level playing field in every other battlefront game?!? Lol

    If you expect to have Star Wars Main Characters (hero’s/villains) to be on a level playing field that’s just silly, then they wouldn’t be worth using or “hero’s”. No other battlefront, if I’m not mistaken, had infantry only game modes. This one has 3? If you love objective trooper play what’s wrong with strike and extraction?! If you like having trooper v trooper fights what’s wrong with blast?!

    Most people that buy this game are enticed because of nostalgia and to play with hero’s, that’s just the flat out truth. The majority are not buying this game because of it being a 1st/3rd person successful shooter, because they’ll be disappointed. Hero’s in your game isn’t the problem, it’s how many and how often should be the problem. These “herolords” are far from the issue 🔮

    I don't think I've ever stated that Heroes and troopers have ever been level in previous games? Just making a point of interest (to me at least).

    In regard to modes like Blast, Strike or Extraction again it comes down to craving a gaming experience that provides a level and balanced playing field. It's why modes like DropZone and Cargo are so praised here, because it provided that experience.

    Consider what I've just said and now have a think about the 'Infantry' modes this game offers from our perspective. Why do you think we don't really consider them Infantry modes at all?

    I absolutely agree that Heroes are an integral part of the Star Wars experience for the majority, I would never want them removed or downgraded in the way that Infantry play has been.
    But for me and others playing as a trooper is the Star Wars experience we love.

    I definitely don't think people buy this game because it's a successful shooter. Because it's not a good shooter at all. The infantry mechanics in comparison to every other Dice created game I've played are distinctly sub-par in BF2.

    But if you look at the gaming industry as a whole the 'shooter' franchise is just a cash making phenom. If you upgraded the infantry mechanics then you would draw in even more people to this game.
    Battlefront becomes more successful meaning even more funding and resources is put into content and before you know it everyones a winner.



    If we agree the shooter mechanic is sub par at best, what’s the benefit of an infantry only mode? People would only use the SE and the 4th and 3rd unlockable assault gun? Which would I turn cause more “nerf buff” threads for guns.

    Assuming you don’t think those modes are fair because of enforcers but they are infantry and can’t you only have 1 or 2 max?


    Your premise was that you believe majority or some hero shooters should be the health of normal shooters, which would take away their greatest strength and usability. You also say people are looking for an even playing field against hero’s, what does that mean? 1v1 a hero with a trooper shouldn’t be in the troopers favor EVER. It happens that the trooper wins sometimes but not the majority or even the norm. Strength in numbers against a hero usually works in majority.

    Trooper game mode is cool and all but it’s just beating a dead horse at that point. As I have pointed out, all they need to do is Limit the usage of hero’s and the trooper bros wouldn’t be so hysterical

    Apologies I think I'm doing a terrible job of explaining myself. My point about Han, Lando and co was just that when you get right down to it, their basically just regular humans, no special Force powers or abilities granted by alien biology.

    Actually just realised Han (smuggler) Lando (gambler? gas mine owner?) aren't even trained for a war. They should definitely be naff in a ground war.

    Just musings, I didn't mean to imply they should be as weak as troopers.

    Although now I'm writing this personally I think I would like it if they where infantry options in a new class.

    In regard to an even playing field I don't mean Hero/Infantry. I mean for me Infantry/Infantry again like DropZone/Cargo and 2015 Blast.

    I'm not for banning heroes at all. I used to play Supremacy and I absolutely loved Extraction in 2015.

    The point is that there is a portion of the Battlefront fan base that has been ignored since launch.

    Your correct Reinforcements to me are just higher tier units and don't belong in a mode that is classed as 'Infantry'.
    And your right that the 'Shooter' mechanics have fallen so far behind that I don't think it will ever reach the heights of BF2015 Cargo etc, basically at this point I'll just take whatever I can get and if that's a Reinforcement free Strike I'll take it.

    But just one weekend, hell one day where it's Infantry and Vehicle only GA or CA (Is it Conquest Assault?) would be nice.

    Agreed. Like I said, if HU gets a weekend Trooper unleashed deserves one
  • Reinforcements are reinforcements, not weapons, weapons are weapons
    But those Reinforcements are holding weapons.

    So explain to me how I can use the DC-17 as a Heavy or the Droidekas blasters as an Assault
    Lol that's like asking me how to use the CR-2 as a Specialist.
    Some weapons are tied to certain classes, in this case a Reinforcement. You're telling me that just because a weapon isn't available for normal troopers, it's not a new weapon?

    Weapons are a choice, it changes how you play a class, a weapon on a reinforcement is tied to the reinforcement and is not a choice. For your example then, why don’t you change the ARC Troopers weapon to a Blurgg?.........You can’t, the weapon is fundamental to the reinforcement, it is just as much a part of the reinforcement as its hitbox, speed and abilities, therefore, it is not a new weapon, it is a new reinforcement.
    Now if you add new weapons to the classes, it changes the class, as it itself is not fundamental to the class, that is why it is a new weapon not a new class
    Weapons are not just a choice, they are weapons. Dictators of how you excel in combat. Almost anything that has this value should be viewed as independent.
    The Reinforcements' weapons dictate how you play. The weapons aren't just part of the larger Reinforcement, they are still weapons at the end of the day. The Clone Commando's DC-17m is not a part of the Reinforcement, it's a new weapon.
    Weapons do change how you play a class. It's a good thing that all weapons for the base classes suit all possible playstyles.
    Your journey nears its end.
    fg4b6t2kcplam2qmfrnt.gif
  • ID_8615 wrote: »
    Well by definition of “crutch” then vehicles and reinforcements are crutches as well. Especially how easy points accumulate in vehicles compared to any other class.

    Don’t see how hero’s are the only crutch, anything that makes gameplay easier would be one. Can’t leave them out. And especially in CS, I would even say hero’s arent the crutch but vehicles are the sole one.

    It’s not the hero’s fault that nobody shoots them

    Sure - let's break this down again, shall we?
    When you design a game, you have essentially 3 or 4 basic variables to work with. Mobility, Health, Firepower, Recovery (if that's a thing: BF2015 it was for the base troopers, but not vehicles and heroes---but in Battlefront 2, it is). For all the base-4 troopers, all things said, those 4 aspects are within reason of one another. In rational game design imbalances are created to foment interesting game play. But, imbalances are kept in check by deducting one value for another. An increase in health is offset by a decrease in mobility---e.g., the Heavy Class trooper. When the Heavy goes in to Rapid Fire mode, his mobility is cut down. An increase in Fire power is offset by a decrease in mobility.

    Vehicles and base Enforcers follow these principles fairly well. Vehicles (on the ground) are easy to hit (have a larger hitbox than players, typically), and tanks are more cumbersome. They have additional health and firepower, but their mobility is limited... especially in places like Naboo. Star fighters are so difficult to maneuver, it's practically impossible to line up a true strafing run (except on Crait, but most players are in the tunnels anyway). Health Regen is also slower. The base enforcers - Dark Troopers and Wookie Warriors, e.g. - also have trade offs in mobility for their added fire power and health. Essentially a jacked up Heavy trooper.

    These do not break the equation NEARLY as much as Aerials, Infiltrators, and Heroes do. DICE threw out nearly every tenet of Game Design when they went on their POWER binge and created these classes. (BP cost could be used as an argument, but then I have several bones to pick with you about how the BP system is designed.) Aerials have sensational mobility, great firepower, good health, small hit box, standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Infiltrators have phenomenal health and firepower, small hit box, standard regen, and good mobility. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Heroes have sensational health, firepower, mobility, small hit box (ultra small for Yoda), and standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.

    Now, do you still want to champion the argument that its not the heroes fault nobody shoots them?

    So we’re gonna act like each class doesn’t have 2-3 effective ways to deal with hero’s?!
    Shotgun, Granada
    Sentry, detonate charge or however you spell it
    Turret, blast command to give you free ammo
    Stinger infiltrator

    People look for more “help me against hero’s” excuses than actually using what they have to kill hero’s ☹️. You’re not gonna win 1v1 against a hero and that’s fair. You’ll usually win 3/4 v 1 against a hero if everyone can use what they have.

    And arcs and jet droids have quite a large hit box. And 2 of the 3 classes have abilities that make them run faster than every other class. And isn’t the aerials health lower than the other enforcers?! And arcs run just as slow or fast as most of the classes, not accounting for a star card that gives them absorber dodge. Kinda nitpicking, try using a hero and run straight to a heavy using a sentry, lemme know if those trade offs work in your favor, not to mention most hero’s have a bigger hit box than troopers except 2/3/4.

    If this was the case that hero’s have no drawbacks then hero’s would never die in games since they are all powerful, but even a stinger pistol can kill god apparently

    Great post. very well put. The Hero moaning does get tiresome. They really aren't a big deal if you use some sense.

    I’m glad we can find common ground if you’re not being sarcastic 🤘🏻😊

    My problem with Heroes is not that they are unkillable, but the fact that they are an utter nuisance and the whole match becomes about the Heroes, running, killing or dying to them, instead of the Objective. I mean you can try, but Heroes just make it more of a chore than a fun game experience

    I would agree the last phase of GA maps is all about who has better hero play and the troopers are just for obj play, that’s an issue with 4 hero’s each im with ya. But 1-2 hero’s keeps the Star Wars feel to me, no other game can replicate the “hero” factor. Ive been a believer that phase 1 shouldn’t have hero’s and phase 2 should get 1 per side and 2 per side for the final phases. It’s a stretch but idk

    1-2 Heroes is fine with me, obviously I’d prefer none, but that is highly unrealistic and I agree, it does add to the unique Star Wars feel

    Does it?

    Solo, Leia, Calrissien, the bird from inferno squad (I can't believe I've forgotten her name) etc are Star Wars legends but in terms of abilities their pretty much normal (I know Leia later goes on to become immortal Mary Poppins) their health and ability to regenerate should be no more than the average trooper.
    In fact considering most don't wear body armour it should be less.

    And as always, it's not about whether killing Heroes is hard or easy. It's that some people prefer to fight on a level playing field for all, it's just what floats our boat.

    And if this is what you loved about previous Battlefront titles it's what we haven't got in this one, not one single poxy mode and the infantry mechanics are just so sub par.

    Best way for anyone who disagrees that the infantry crowd deserve this, imagine in the next title that Dice decide to back to the primary focus being Infantry. No hero only modes and the base hero selection and abilities that you get at launch are all you'll receive for the entire duration of Battlefront 3.

    Be honest are you telling me the Herolords wouldn't be on here kicking off?

    Hero’s and trooper were on a level playing field in every other battlefront game?!? Lol

    If you expect to have Star Wars Main Characters (hero’s/villains) to be on a level playing field that’s just silly, then they wouldn’t be worth using or “hero’s”. No other battlefront, if I’m not mistaken, had infantry only game modes. This one has 3? If you love objective trooper play what’s wrong with strike and extraction?! If you like having trooper v trooper fights what’s wrong with blast?!

    Most people that buy this game are enticed because of nostalgia and to play with hero’s, that’s just the flat out truth. The majority are not buying this game because of it being a 1st/3rd person successful shooter, because they’ll be disappointed. Hero’s in your game isn’t the problem, it’s how many and how often should be the problem. These “herolords” are far from the issue 🔮

    I don't think I've ever stated that Heroes and troopers have ever been level in previous games? Just making a point of interest (to me at least).

    In regard to modes like Blast, Strike or Extraction again it comes down to craving a gaming experience that provides a level and balanced playing field. It's why modes like DropZone and Cargo are so praised here, because it provided that experience.

    Consider what I've just said and now have a think about the 'Infantry' modes this game offers from our perspective. Why do you think we don't really consider them Infantry modes at all?

    I absolutely agree that Heroes are an integral part of the Star Wars experience for the majority, I would never want them removed or downgraded in the way that Infantry play has been.
    But for me and others playing as a trooper is the Star Wars experience we love.

    I definitely don't think people buy this game because it's a successful shooter. Because it's not a good shooter at all. The infantry mechanics in comparison to every other Dice created game I've played are distinctly sub-par in BF2.

    But if you look at the gaming industry as a whole the 'shooter' franchise is just a cash making phenom. If you upgraded the infantry mechanics then you would draw in even more people to this game.
    Battlefront becomes more successful meaning even more funding and resources is put into content and before you know it everyones a winner.



    If we agree the shooter mechanic is sub par at best, what’s the benefit of an infantry only mode? People would only use the SE and the 4th and 3rd unlockable assault gun? Which would I turn cause more “nerf buff” threads for guns.

    Assuming you don’t think those modes are fair because of enforcers but they are infantry and can’t you only have 1 or 2 max?


    Your premise was that you believe majority or some hero shooters should be the health of normal shooters, which would take away their greatest strength and usability. You also say people are looking for an even playing field against hero’s, what does that mean? 1v1 a hero with a trooper shouldn’t be in the troopers favor EVER. It happens that the trooper wins sometimes but not the majority or even the norm. Strength in numbers against a hero usually works in majority.

    Trooper game mode is cool and all but it’s just beating a dead horse at that point. As I have pointed out, all they need to do is Limit the usage of hero’s and the trooper bros wouldn’t be so hysterical

    Apologies I think I'm doing a terrible job of explaining myself. My point about Han, Lando and co was just that when you get right down to it, their basically just regular humans, no special Force powers or abilities granted by alien biology.

    Actually just realised Han (smuggler) Lando (gambler? gas mine owner?) aren't even trained for a war. They should definitely be naff in a ground war.

    Just musings, I didn't mean to imply they should be as weak as troopers.

    Although now I'm writing this personally I think I would like it if they where infantry options in a new class.

    In regard to an even playing field I don't mean Hero/Infantry. I mean for me Infantry/Infantry again like DropZone/Cargo and 2015 Blast.

    I'm not for banning heroes at all. I used to play Supremacy and I absolutely loved Extraction in 2015.

    The point is that there is a portion of the Battlefront fan base that has been ignored since launch.

    Your correct Reinforcements to me are just higher tier units and don't belong in a mode that is classed as 'Infantry'.
    And your right that the 'Shooter' mechanics have fallen so far behind that I don't think it will ever reach the heights of BF2015 Cargo etc, basically at this point I'll just take whatever I can get and if that's a Reinforcement free Strike I'll take it.

    But just one weekend, hell one day where it's Infantry and Vehicle only GA or CA (Is it Conquest Assault?) would be nice.

    Agreed. Like I said, if HU gets a weekend Trooper unleashed deserves one

    Bloody hell a civil non reductive conversation on a gaming forum where each walks away with an understanding of the others perspective!!

    Miracles do happen!

    I now have renewed faith that we might end up with a trooper only mode. Nice chatting with you mate.
  • ID_8615 wrote: »
    Well by definition of “crutch” then vehicles and reinforcements are crutches as well. Especially how easy points accumulate in vehicles compared to any other class.

    Don’t see how hero’s are the only crutch, anything that makes gameplay easier would be one. Can’t leave them out. And especially in CS, I would even say hero’s arent the crutch but vehicles are the sole one.

    It’s not the hero’s fault that nobody shoots them

    Sure - let's break this down again, shall we?
    When you design a game, you have essentially 3 or 4 basic variables to work with. Mobility, Health, Firepower, Recovery (if that's a thing: BF2015 it was for the base troopers, but not vehicles and heroes---but in Battlefront 2, it is). For all the base-4 troopers, all things said, those 4 aspects are within reason of one another. In rational game design imbalances are created to foment interesting game play. But, imbalances are kept in check by deducting one value for another. An increase in health is offset by a decrease in mobility---e.g., the Heavy Class trooper. When the Heavy goes in to Rapid Fire mode, his mobility is cut down. An increase in Fire power is offset by a decrease in mobility.

    Vehicles and base Enforcers follow these principles fairly well. Vehicles (on the ground) are easy to hit (have a larger hitbox than players, typically), and tanks are more cumbersome. They have additional health and firepower, but their mobility is limited... especially in places like Naboo. Star fighters are so difficult to maneuver, it's practically impossible to line up a true strafing run (except on Crait, but most players are in the tunnels anyway). Health Regen is also slower. The base enforcers - Dark Troopers and Wookie Warriors, e.g. - also have trade offs in mobility for their added fire power and health. Essentially a jacked up Heavy trooper.

    These do not break the equation NEARLY as much as Aerials, Infiltrators, and Heroes do. DICE threw out nearly every tenet of Game Design when they went on their POWER binge and created these classes. (BP cost could be used as an argument, but then I have several bones to pick with you about how the BP system is designed.) Aerials have sensational mobility, great firepower, good health, small hit box, standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Infiltrators have phenomenal health and firepower, small hit box, standard regen, and good mobility. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Heroes have sensational health, firepower, mobility, small hit box (ultra small for Yoda), and standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.

    Now, do you still want to champion the argument that its not the heroes fault nobody shoots them?

    So we’re gonna act like each class doesn’t have 2-3 effective ways to deal with hero’s?!
    Shotgun, Granada
    Sentry, detonate charge or however you spell it
    Turret, blast command to give you free ammo
    Stinger infiltrator

    People look for more “help me against hero’s” excuses than actually using what they have to kill hero’s ☹️. You’re not gonna win 1v1 against a hero and that’s fair. You’ll usually win 3/4 v 1 against a hero if everyone can use what they have.

    And arcs and jet droids have quite a large hit box. And 2 of the 3 classes have abilities that make them run faster than every other class. And isn’t the aerials health lower than the other enforcers?! And arcs run just as slow or fast as most of the classes, not accounting for a star card that gives them absorber dodge. Kinda nitpicking, try using a hero and run straight to a heavy using a sentry, lemme know if those trade offs work in your favor, not to mention most hero’s have a bigger hit box than troopers except 2/3/4.

    If this was the case that hero’s have no drawbacks then hero’s would never die in games since they are all powerful, but even a stinger pistol can kill god apparently

    Great post. very well put. The Hero moaning does get tiresome. They really aren't a big deal if you use some sense.

    I’m glad we can find common ground if you’re not being sarcastic 🤘🏻😊

    My problem with Heroes is not that they are unkillable, but the fact that they are an utter nuisance and the whole match becomes about the Heroes, running, killing or dying to them, instead of the Objective. I mean you can try, but Heroes just make it more of a chore than a fun game experience

    I would agree the last phase of GA maps is all about who has better hero play and the troopers are just for obj play, that’s an issue with 4 hero’s each im with ya. But 1-2 hero’s keeps the Star Wars feel to me, no other game can replicate the “hero” factor. Ive been a believer that phase 1 shouldn’t have hero’s and phase 2 should get 1 per side and 2 per side for the final phases. It’s a stretch but idk

    1-2 Heroes is fine with me, obviously I’d prefer none, but that is highly unrealistic and I agree, it does add to the unique Star Wars feel

    Does it?

    Solo, Leia, Calrissien, the bird from inferno squad (I can't believe I've forgotten her name) etc are Star Wars legends but in terms of abilities their pretty much normal (I know Leia later goes on to become immortal Mary Poppins) their health and ability to regenerate should be no more than the average trooper.
    In fact considering most don't wear body armour it should be less.

    And as always, it's not about whether killing Heroes is hard or easy. It's that some people prefer to fight on a level playing field for all, it's just what floats our boat.

    And if this is what you loved about previous Battlefront titles it's what we haven't got in this one, not one single poxy mode and the infantry mechanics are just so sub par.

    Best way for anyone who disagrees that the infantry crowd deserve this, imagine in the next title that Dice decide to back to the primary focus being Infantry. No hero only modes and the base hero selection and abilities that you get at launch are all you'll receive for the entire duration of Battlefront 3.

    Be honest are you telling me the Herolords wouldn't be on here kicking off?

    Agree. Hopefully bf3, if there is one, will go back to being a shooter first and focus on infantry again with heros as support. The herolords currently have their hero game with bf2. We need dz/cargo again, all stats, private matches, more options, more infantry play, and most of all a balanced game that rewards skill. They should email everyone with an ea account that’s actually logged in and played bf15/2 what they prefer, a shooter based game or a hero based game.


    To the last part of your post, hero mains wouldn’t even be here in this was infantry focused, most weren’t here for bf15. It’s the same as most all the 15 guys I know, 99% have long left bf2 because they don’t just dislike this game, they seem to hate it. We need those guys back because they’re Starwars fans to, something this crew seems to have forgot.


    Like many of your other posts I agree with everything you've said, except the parts about stats.
    I think they're great for measuring personal growth, but they just turn everything into a E-Peen measuring contest. And worse I think they propagate K/D farmers. PTO is the only stat that counts (outside of Blast).
  • Ppong_Man12
    2761 posts Member
    edited August 22
    ID_8615 wrote: »
    Well by definition of “crutch” then vehicles and reinforcements are crutches as well. Especially how easy points accumulate in vehicles compared to any other class.

    Don’t see how hero’s are the only crutch, anything that makes gameplay easier would be one. Can’t leave them out. And especially in CS, I would even say hero’s arent the crutch but vehicles are the sole one.

    It’s not the hero’s fault that nobody shoots them

    Sure - let's break this down again, shall we?
    When you design a game, you have essentially 3 or 4 basic variables to work with. Mobility, Health, Firepower, Recovery (if that's a thing: BF2015 it was for the base troopers, but not vehicles and heroes---but in Battlefront 2, it is). For all the base-4 troopers, all things said, those 4 aspects are within reason of one another. In rational game design imbalances are created to foment interesting game play. But, imbalances are kept in check by deducting one value for another. An increase in health is offset by a decrease in mobility---e.g., the Heavy Class trooper. When the Heavy goes in to Rapid Fire mode, his mobility is cut down. An increase in Fire power is offset by a decrease in mobility.

    Vehicles and base Enforcers follow these principles fairly well. Vehicles (on the ground) are easy to hit (have a larger hitbox than players, typically), and tanks are more cumbersome. They have additional health and firepower, but their mobility is limited... especially in places like Naboo. Star fighters are so difficult to maneuver, it's practically impossible to line up a true strafing run (except on Crait, but most players are in the tunnels anyway). Health Regen is also slower. The base enforcers - Dark Troopers and Wookie Warriors, e.g. - also have trade offs in mobility for their added fire power and health. Essentially a jacked up Heavy trooper.

    These do not break the equation NEARLY as much as Aerials, Infiltrators, and Heroes do. DICE threw out nearly every tenet of Game Design when they went on their POWER binge and created these classes. (BP cost could be used as an argument, but then I have several bones to pick with you about how the BP system is designed.) Aerials have sensational mobility, great firepower, good health, small hit box, standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Infiltrators have phenomenal health and firepower, small hit box, standard regen, and good mobility. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Heroes have sensational health, firepower, mobility, small hit box (ultra small for Yoda), and standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.

    Now, do you still want to champion the argument that its not the heroes fault nobody shoots them?

    So we’re gonna act like each class doesn’t have 2-3 effective ways to deal with hero’s?!
    Shotgun, Granada
    Sentry, detonate charge or however you spell it
    Turret, blast command to give you free ammo
    Stinger infiltrator

    People look for more “help me against hero’s” excuses than actually using what they have to kill hero’s ☹️. You’re not gonna win 1v1 against a hero and that’s fair. You’ll usually win 3/4 v 1 against a hero if everyone can use what they have.

    And arcs and jet droids have quite a large hit box. And 2 of the 3 classes have abilities that make them run faster than every other class. And isn’t the aerials health lower than the other enforcers?! And arcs run just as slow or fast as most of the classes, not accounting for a star card that gives them absorber dodge. Kinda nitpicking, try using a hero and run straight to a heavy using a sentry, lemme know if those trade offs work in your favor, not to mention most hero’s have a bigger hit box than troopers except 2/3/4.

    If this was the case that hero’s have no drawbacks then hero’s would never die in games since they are all powerful, but even a stinger pistol can kill god apparently

    Great post. very well put. The Hero moaning does get tiresome. They really aren't a big deal if you use some sense.

    I’m glad we can find common ground if you’re not being sarcastic 🤘🏻😊

    My problem with Heroes is not that they are unkillable, but the fact that they are an utter nuisance and the whole match becomes about the Heroes, running, killing or dying to them, instead of the Objective. I mean you can try, but Heroes just make it more of a chore than a fun game experience

    I would agree the last phase of GA maps is all about who has better hero play and the troopers are just for obj play, that’s an issue with 4 hero’s each im with ya. But 1-2 hero’s keeps the Star Wars feel to me, no other game can replicate the “hero” factor. Ive been a believer that phase 1 shouldn’t have hero’s and phase 2 should get 1 per side and 2 per side for the final phases. It’s a stretch but idk

    1-2 Heroes is fine with me, obviously I’d prefer none, but that is highly unrealistic and I agree, it does add to the unique Star Wars feel

    Does it?

    Solo, Leia, Calrissien, the bird from inferno squad (I can't believe I've forgotten her name) etc are Star Wars legends but in terms of abilities their pretty much normal (I know Leia later goes on to become immortal Mary Poppins) their health and ability to regenerate should be no more than the average trooper.
    In fact considering most don't wear body armour it should be less.

    And as always, it's not about whether killing Heroes is hard or easy. It's that some people prefer to fight on a level playing field for all, it's just what floats our boat.

    And if this is what you loved about previous Battlefront titles it's what we haven't got in this one, not one single poxy mode and the infantry mechanics are just so sub par.

    Best way for anyone who disagrees that the infantry crowd deserve this, imagine in the next title that Dice decide to back to the primary focus being Infantry. No hero only modes and the base hero selection and abilities that you get at launch are all you'll receive for the entire duration of Battlefront 3.

    Be honest are you telling me the Herolords wouldn't be on here kicking off?

    Agree. Hopefully bf3, if there is one, will go back to being a shooter first and focus on infantry again with heros as support. The herolords currently have their hero game with bf2. We need dz/cargo again, all stats, private matches, more options, more infantry play, and most of all a balanced game that rewards skill. They should email everyone with an ea account that’s actually logged in and played bf15/2 what they prefer, a shooter based game or a hero based game.


    To the last part of your post, hero mains wouldn’t even be here in this was infantry focused, most weren’t here for bf15. It’s the same as most all the 15 guys I know, 99% have long left bf2 because they don’t just dislike this game, they seem to hate it. We need those guys back because they’re Starwars fans to, something this crew seems to have forgot.


    Like many of your other posts I agree with everything you've said, except the parts about stats.
    I think they're great for measuring personal growth, but they just turn everything into a E-Peen measuring contest. And worse I think they propagate K/D farmers. PTO is the only stat that counts (outside of Blast).

    I know stats is irrelevant, and it’s far to late now anyway, I’m mainly campaigning for the next game lol. Though if it would help lessen some of the kamikaze gameplay it might help lol. Agree they should definitely have a pto or obj time and not just a highest score.
  • ID_8615 wrote: »
    Well by definition of “crutch” then vehicles and reinforcements are crutches as well. Especially how easy points accumulate in vehicles compared to any other class.

    Don’t see how hero’s are the only crutch, anything that makes gameplay easier would be one. Can’t leave them out. And especially in CS, I would even say hero’s arent the crutch but vehicles are the sole one.

    It’s not the hero’s fault that nobody shoots them

    Sure - let's break this down again, shall we?
    When you design a game, you have essentially 3 or 4 basic variables to work with. Mobility, Health, Firepower, Recovery (if that's a thing: BF2015 it was for the base troopers, but not vehicles and heroes---but in Battlefront 2, it is). For all the base-4 troopers, all things said, those 4 aspects are within reason of one another. In rational game design imbalances are created to foment interesting game play. But, imbalances are kept in check by deducting one value for another. An increase in health is offset by a decrease in mobility---e.g., the Heavy Class trooper. When the Heavy goes in to Rapid Fire mode, his mobility is cut down. An increase in Fire power is offset by a decrease in mobility.

    Vehicles and base Enforcers follow these principles fairly well. Vehicles (on the ground) are easy to hit (have a larger hitbox than players, typically), and tanks are more cumbersome. They have additional health and firepower, but their mobility is limited... especially in places like Naboo. Star fighters are so difficult to maneuver, it's practically impossible to line up a true strafing run (except on Crait, but most players are in the tunnels anyway). Health Regen is also slower. The base enforcers - Dark Troopers and Wookie Warriors, e.g. - also have trade offs in mobility for their added fire power and health. Essentially a jacked up Heavy trooper.

    These do not break the equation NEARLY as much as Aerials, Infiltrators, and Heroes do. DICE threw out nearly every tenet of Game Design when they went on their POWER binge and created these classes. (BP cost could be used as an argument, but then I have several bones to pick with you about how the BP system is designed.) Aerials have sensational mobility, great firepower, good health, small hit box, standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Infiltrators have phenomenal health and firepower, small hit box, standard regen, and good mobility. What's the drawback? Answer: none.
    Heroes have sensational health, firepower, mobility, small hit box (ultra small for Yoda), and standard regen. What's the drawback? Answer: none.

    Now, do you still want to champion the argument that its not the heroes fault nobody shoots them?

    So we’re gonna act like each class doesn’t have 2-3 effective ways to deal with hero’s?!
    Shotgun, Granada
    Sentry, detonate charge or however you spell it
    Turret, blast command to give you free ammo
    Stinger infiltrator

    People look for more “help me against hero’s” excuses than actually using what they have to kill hero’s ☹️. You’re not gonna win 1v1 against a hero and that’s fair. You’ll usually win 3/4 v 1 against a hero if everyone can use what they have.

    And arcs and jet droids have quite a large hit box. And 2 of the 3 classes have abilities that make them run faster than every other class. And isn’t the aerials health lower than the other enforcers?! And arcs run just as slow or fast as most of the classes, not accounting for a star card that gives them absorber dodge. Kinda nitpicking, try using a hero and run straight to a heavy using a sentry, lemme know if those trade offs work in your favor, not to mention most hero’s have a bigger hit box than troopers except 2/3/4.

    If this was the case that hero’s have no drawbacks then hero’s would never die in games since they are all powerful, but even a stinger pistol can kill god apparently

    Great post. very well put. The Hero moaning does get tiresome. They really aren't a big deal if you use some sense.

    I’m glad we can find common ground if you’re not being sarcastic 🤘🏻😊

    My problem with Heroes is not that they are unkillable, but the fact that they are an utter nuisance and the whole match becomes about the Heroes, running, killing or dying to them, instead of the Objective. I mean you can try, but Heroes just make it more of a chore than a fun game experience

    I would agree the last phase of GA maps is all about who has better hero play and the troopers are just for obj play, that’s an issue with 4 hero’s each im with ya. But 1-2 hero’s keeps the Star Wars feel to me, no other game can replicate the “hero” factor. Ive been a believer that phase 1 shouldn’t have hero’s and phase 2 should get 1 per side and 2 per side for the final phases. It’s a stretch but idk

    1-2 Heroes is fine with me, obviously I’d prefer none, but that is highly unrealistic and I agree, it does add to the unique Star Wars feel

    Does it?

    Solo, Leia, Calrissien, the bird from inferno squad (I can't believe I've forgotten her name) etc are Star Wars legends but in terms of abilities their pretty much normal (I know Leia later goes on to become immortal Mary Poppins) their health and ability to regenerate should be no more than the average trooper.
    In fact considering most don't wear body armour it should be less.

    And as always, it's not about whether killing Heroes is hard or easy. It's that some people prefer to fight on a level playing field for all, it's just what floats our boat.

    And if this is what you loved about previous Battlefront titles it's what we haven't got in this one, not one single poxy mode and the infantry mechanics are just so sub par.

    Best way for anyone who disagrees that the infantry crowd deserve this, imagine in the next title that Dice decide to back to the primary focus being Infantry. No hero only modes and the base hero selection and abilities that you get at launch are all you'll receive for the entire duration of Battlefront 3.

    Be honest are you telling me the Herolords wouldn't be on here kicking off?

    Hero’s and trooper were on a level playing field in every other battlefront game?!? Lol

    If you expect to have Star Wars Main Characters (hero’s/villains) to be on a level playing field that’s just silly, then they wouldn’t be worth using or “hero’s”. No other battlefront, if I’m not mistaken, had infantry only game modes. This one has 3? If you love objective trooper play what’s wrong with strike and extraction?! If you like having trooper v trooper fights what’s wrong with blast?!

    Most people that buy this game are enticed because of nostalgia and to play with hero’s, that’s just the flat out truth. The majority are not buying this game because of it being a 1st/3rd person successful shooter, because they’ll be disappointed. Hero’s in your game isn’t the problem, it’s how many and how often should be the problem. These “herolords” are far from the issue 🔮

    I don't think I've ever stated that Heroes and troopers have ever been level in previous games? Just making a point of interest (to me at least).

    In regard to modes like Blast, Strike or Extraction again it comes down to craving a gaming experience that provides a level and balanced playing field. It's why modes like DropZone and Cargo are so praised here, because it provided that experience.

    Consider what I've just said and now have a think about the 'Infantry' modes this game offers from our perspective. Why do you think we don't really consider them Infantry modes at all?

    I absolutely agree that Heroes are an integral part of the Star Wars experience for the majority, I would never want them removed or downgraded in the way that Infantry play has been.
    But for me and others playing as a trooper is the Star Wars experience we love.

    I definitely don't think people buy this game because it's a successful shooter. Because it's not a good shooter at all. The infantry mechanics in comparison to every other Dice created game I've played are distinctly sub-par in BF2.

    But if you look at the gaming industry as a whole the 'shooter' franchise is just a cash making phenom. If you upgraded the infantry mechanics then you would draw in even more people to this game.
    Battlefront becomes more successful meaning even more funding and resources is put into content and before you know it everyones a winner.



    If we agree the shooter mechanic is sub par at best, what’s the benefit of an infantry only mode? People would only use the SE and the 4th and 3rd unlockable assault gun? Which would I turn cause more “nerf buff” threads for guns.

    Assuming you don’t think those modes are fair because of enforcers but they are infantry and can’t you only have 1 or 2 max?


    Your premise was that you believe majority or some hero shooters should be the health of normal shooters, which would take away their greatest strength and usability. You also say people are looking for an even playing field against hero’s, what does that mean? 1v1 a hero with a trooper shouldn’t be in the troopers favor EVER. It happens that the trooper wins sometimes but not the majority or even the norm. Strength in numbers against a hero usually works in majority.

    Trooper game mode is cool and all but it’s just beating a dead horse at that point. As I have pointed out, all they need to do is Limit the usage of hero’s and the trooper bros wouldn’t be so hysterical

    Apologies I think I'm doing a terrible job of explaining myself. My point about Han, Lando and co was just that when you get right down to it, their basically just regular humans, no special Force powers or abilities granted by alien biology.

    Actually just realised Han (smuggler) Lando (gambler? gas mine owner?) aren't even trained for a war. They should definitely be naff in a ground war.

    Just musings, I didn't mean to imply they should be as weak as troopers.

    Although now I'm writing this personally I think I would like it if they where infantry options in a new class.

    In regard to an even playing field I don't mean Hero/Infantry. I mean for me Infantry/Infantry again like DropZone/Cargo and 2015 Blast.

    I'm not for banning heroes at all. I used to play Supremacy and I absolutely loved Extraction in 2015.

    The point is that there is a portion of the Battlefront fan base that has been ignored since launch.

    Your correct Reinforcements to me are just higher tier units and don't belong in a mode that is classed as 'Infantry'.
    And your right that the 'Shooter' mechanics have fallen so far behind that I don't think it will ever reach the heights of BF2015 Cargo etc, basically at this point I'll just take whatever I can get and if that's a Reinforcement free Strike I'll take it.

    But just one weekend, hell one day where it's Infantry and Vehicle only GA or CA (Is it Conquest Assault?) would be nice.

    Agreed. Like I said, if HU gets a weekend Trooper unleashed deserves one

    Bloody hell a civil non reductive conversation on a gaming forum where each walks away with an understanding of the others perspective!!

    Miracles do happen!

    I now have renewed faith that we might end up with a trooper only mode. Nice chatting with you mate.

    😂😂😆🤘🏻 have a good one
  • Ppong_Man12
    2761 posts Member
    edited August 22
    Side note, for any of you COD guys the alpha is available tomorrow for ps4 users, no preorder or codes, just download from psn. It’ll definitely have trooper content.
  • lowell wrote: »

    What was he responding to?
  • Ppong_Man12
    2761 posts Member
    edited August 23
    Not sure what he means but he’s right, weapons and/or weapon systems suck in this game. He made great weapons and infamy play in bf15 so I know he knows what he’s talking about.
  • Another thing is if Dennis is dating this it leads me to believe he didn’t design weapons this time around.
  • lowell wrote: »

    Do you know if it was the same tweet where he made that “joke”?

    Don’t know what to make out of this, he’s right, the weapon system sucks- so... perhaps change it?

  • lowell
    1647 posts Member
    edited August 23
    skincarver wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »

    Do you know if it was the same tweet where he made that “joke”?

    Don’t know what to make out of this, he’s right, the weapon system sucks- so... perhaps change it?

    Not the same tweet but in the same thread, apparently it just became a Q&A over several days with other newcomers.

    This is my thought: Definitely, the CT was not for everyone even though it was promised to be so but this weapons overhaul development was likely to be included on it and possibly removed at the last minute.

    Perhaps, there's something involving the approval process on this from Lucasfilm and the Story Group and DICE just got the green light to start the overhaul process now.

    They could be now underway deciding in advance already what to do for 2020 content. There is a lot of stuff I do want to see them touch on after TROS and Rogue One are covered alongside TCW Season 7 and the Mandalorian Season 1.

    New weapons could easily be grabbed for inspiration outside of the films like Rebels, TCW, Marvel Comics, etc.

    That's how we got DL-18, Blurrg-1120, X-8 Night Sniper, EE-4, etc. in these two games.

    Also, want to see new maps, vehicles, heroes, reinforcements (don't have a priority order since different developers work on different categories).

    I'll take anything that the game churns out as long as we continue the development process with quality not being sacrificed for rushed quantity.
  • Thx @lowell might have happened just as you say, who knows...

    I hope there will content after TROS, to me bf17 will only be a finished game once we get more weapons and a large scale infantry option.

  • lowell
    1647 posts Member
    edited August 23
    skincarver wrote: »
    Thx @lowell might have happened just as you say, who knows...

    I hope there will content after TROS, to me bf17 will only be a finished game once we get more weapons and a large scale infantry option.

    I have been wondering if it's out of the question for us to get more factions beyond the standard two for each era.

    Definitely, there should be at least one main large scale infantry mode (without reinforcements, vehicles, or heroes). Do you mind them scraping Extraction, Strike, Blast, and Ewok Hunt to bring this mode forward or just add the mode to the game without eliminating those modes?

    I'm just wondering about this because the size of the game is growing during each update by many GBs and perhaps eliminating those three modes to put in the infantry mode might make the game file size a little more manageable for players.

    But even after getting weapons and the infantry mode, I'd like the devs to grow the game as much as they can because they aren't as restricted to eras or movie-only content in this game as Battlefront 2015.

    Considering they keep up with the canon beyond the films, I'm pretty sure they have some ideas that they haven't been able to put forward yet. They have untapped potential that we've seen opening out only a little bit in the lifespan of this game so far.

    I wondered how many ideas for this game that Lucasfilm denied them on.

    Also, if this game gets better as it evolves over time, I hope that further delays the development of a Battlefront III down the line towards 2022. I want to see how EA is willing to go on the live service strategy they've been adopting so far.

    Really want EA to give DICE extra support from Criterion and DICE LA to make more content for the game but with high quality.
  • I’ve always been an advocate for having more options rather than less, so scrapping the smaller modes is- against my nature, if you will. Those modes still do have fans despite Dice partially abandoning them, I played predominantly Blast until I found the reinforcement spam to be unbearable.

    Yes, the filesize is growing with each update- I thought of maybe an uninstall option for the campaign portion of the game to reduce the GBs, no dev ever responded if this would be possible.

    For me on ps4, there most likely will come a time where I have to manage my disk space (looking at you CP2077 🤤) and make some room.

    I too, would love to see constant updates until close before a potential BFIII and if Dice is committed and would give “me” the content to stick with the game I’d have no problem in buying an external drive just for this game, so filesize is only an issue if it’s not worth it.

  • lowell
    1647 posts Member
    skincarver wrote: »
    I’ve always been an advocate for having more options rather than less, so scrapping the smaller modes is- against my nature, if you will. Those modes still do have fans despite Dice partially abandoning them, I played predominantly Blast until I found the reinforcement spam to be unbearable.

    Yes, the filesize is growing with each update- I thought of maybe an uninstall option for the campaign portion of the game to reduce the GBs, no dev ever responded if this would be possible.

    For me on ps4, there most likely will come a time where I have to manage my disk space (looking at you CP2077 🤤) and make some room.

    I too, would love to see constant updates until close before a potential BFIII and if Dice is committed and would give “me” the content to stick with the game I’d have no problem in buying an external drive just for this game, so filesize is only an issue if it’s not worth it.

    Ok, that's good to know. I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. And honestly, I don't really feel we need a Battlefront III right now if the devs are going to stick to this game for a longer period.

    I do think that the creation of this game was necessary. I just didn't really like how the system in Battlefront 2015 worked and felt I was able to fit in with how this game works a few months after launch. Clearly, that's not the same opinion everyone has but that's just my thought. It is similar to how the original Battlefront II played in a way but it is still a distinctively different installment of the series on its own.
  • No, a BFIII is not really necessary while they could bring content for 17. And it’s reception will (for me at least) depend on how they finish with this game.

    15 and 17 both have a different appeal, and it’s somewhat strange- although I prefer 17 over 15 overall, I think I had more fun playing 15, particularly as infantry.

    I strongly dislike the tiered unit gameplay that’s forced down upon everyone; not giving us an option without it is an epic fail.
    And tbh, I seriously don’t know how long they can drag infantry players like myself along if they continue to overlook us.
    Two years of nothing is becoming old really, really fast.

  • lowell
    1647 posts Member
    edited August 23
    skincarver wrote: »
    No, a BFIII is not really necessary while they could bring content for 17. And it’s reception will (for me at least) depend on how they finish with this game.

    15 and 17 both have a different appeal, and it’s somewhat strange- although I prefer 17 over 15 overall, I think I had more fun playing 15, particularly as infantry.

    I strongly dislike the tiered unit gameplay that’s forced down upon everyone; not giving us an option without it is an epic fail.
    And tbh, I seriously don’t know how long they can drag infantry players like myself along if they continue to overlook us.
    Two years of nothing is becoming old really, really fast.

    If they can do something for infantry players that adds to the experience but doesn't ruin most of the things that's been established, they should go for it now.

    At least, the weapons overhaul is a start on how they're going to keep the game continuing with live service interesting for everyone.

    While the Story Group takes a larger oversight role on the approval process, I don't think their role will harm the infantry side a lot in future infantry content.

    There's a lot of weapons from the shows, comics, etc. that I really want to see make it into the game like:

    WESTAR-35

    latest?cb=20130606235304


    AB-75 Bo-Rifle (with full quarterstaff-length melee)

    latest?cb=20141226064646


    J-19 Bo-Rifle (also having the same melee as the AB-75)

    3bf3f85e3fde75f7e43d4060a2f59b0205be1749_hq.jpg


  • The forum made so many good and detailed weapon suggestions, the SW universe delivers more than enough material- it surely isn’t down to a lack of ideas but rather dices set of priorities.

  • lowell
    1647 posts Member
    skincarver wrote: »
    The forum made so many good and detailed weapon suggestions, the SW universe delivers more than enough material- it surely isn’t down to a lack of ideas but rather dices set of priorities.

    And as long as Lucasfilm keeps opening up the canon with new Star Wars projects, DICE won't ever run out of material to make for the game. I think one thing, though, is that it would be cool if more of the player base is open to non-film content coming to the game.

    Content is content and I'll take what I'll get, no matter what medium it comes from. A show or a film might be bad in some way but it has been acknowledged as canon and that clears it into being under consideration to make into the game.

    It could be a crappy story but the heroes, locations, weapons, etc. might be cool to play with.

    There's been controversial arguments from both sides about why we should or shouldn't get this or that and it might explain why DICE has been trying to find the right moment to introduce more of the canon to the player base.
  • lowell
    1647 posts Member
    This is a pretty bold stance DICE is taking-breaking the 2-year game life cycle tradition. I'm excited to see where this game is going next in development.

    https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-08-22-restoring-trust-in-star-wars-battlefront-ii
  • lowell wrote: »
    This is a pretty bold stance DICE is taking-breaking the 2-year game life cycle tradition. I'm excited to see where this game is going next in development.

    https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-08-22-restoring-trust-in-star-wars-battlefront-ii

    Interesting. This does sound good in general, time will show how it will pan out and if they will really “respect the past”.

    Good for them to realize they haven’t done that so far.

  • lowell wrote: »

    As glorious as it is seeing our magnificent trooper brothers and sisters taking the fight to Twitter, Dennis isn't actually saying anythings going to change, he just agrees that Infantry play is naff.

    It is still good to see him acknowledging it though, cheers for the post
  • When the Trooper revolution comes, this one will be shown no mercy!

    tmq9s45ul4sf.png

    Unbelievable.
  • When the Trooper revolution comes, this one will be shown no mercy!

    tmq9s45ul4sf.png

    That in a nutshell is the sad mentality of to much of the battlefront 2 playerbase imo. Instead of competition they want basically live players as bots to farm, or want it as close to arcade on easy mode as possible.
    Or they want fighting heroes as troopers to actually be a challenge.

    What
  • And a Coruscant map
  • lowell
    1647 posts Member
    edited August 24
    Timeline of existing films and series with new projects:

    ECsfoRHXkAATz10.jpg


    Post edited by lowell on
  • When the Trooper revolution comes, this one will be shown no mercy!

    tmq9s45ul4sf.png

    That in a nutshell is the sad mentality of to much of the battlefront 2 playerbase imo. Instead of competition they want basically live players as bots to farm, or want it as close to arcade on easy mode as possible.
    Or they want fighting heroes as troopers to actually be a challenge.

    What
    Typical.
    Your journey nears its end.
    fg4b6t2kcplam2qmfrnt.gif
  • When the Trooper revolution comes, this one will be shown no mercy!

    tmq9s45ul4sf.png

    That in a nutshell is the sad mentality of to much of the battlefront 2 playerbase imo. Instead of competition they want basically live players as bots to farm, or want it as close to arcade on easy mode as possible.
    Or they want fighting heroes as troopers to actually be a challenge.

    No
  • When the Trooper revolution comes, this one will be shown no mercy!

    tmq9s45ul4sf.png

    That in a nutshell is the sad mentality of to much of the battlefront 2 playerbase imo. Instead of competition they want basically live players as bots to farm, or want it as close to arcade on easy mode as possible.
    Or they want fighting heroes as troopers to actually be a challenge.

    No
    Got nothing to say.
    Your journey nears its end.
    fg4b6t2kcplam2qmfrnt.gif
  • Bumped.
    #StarWars-y
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