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Hate the target system in HvV? Love it? I have a solution that will please everyone (but trolls lol)

2

Replies

  • bfloo
    13709 posts Member
    It's more pronounced in consequence in modes with few players such as HvV and HS.

    Besides you are just speculating, we have the evidence with how often people quit target HvV.

    If you had played OG BF 2 you wouldn't even think that. Quiting was quite rare relative to how often people quit with the target system.

    People will of course quit in any mode but it'd be undoubtedly worse for target HvV if it remains given how often people quit on top of a fractioned player base.

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • The vacancies in those modes do not represent a split player base. They represent unpopular or unsuccessful modes. HvV is neither. In fact the opposite is true. Otherwise, HvV would be empty just like SA. Conceptually, there’s nothing wrong with the the target system. It works where I play. If it doesn’t for you then ask for something else. Something new. Don’t ask to take something from others because you don’t like it. I just can’t fathom why folks aren’t understanding this.

    They do represent a split. People are spread across more modes which include empty modes that could instead be eliminated so resources could be used in better ways.

    It's a zero sum game- sometimes elimination is what is best for all even at the expense of the minority.

    Conceptually there is something wrong because it promotes stalling and passiveness which is as boring as it gets for most.

    HvV would have more even people playing if it were as fun as the OG BF 2. Just look at the front page of Reddit or here there are constant posts about eliminating the target system in favor of a more active and vibrant game mode. That is how samples work.

    I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.

  • I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.
    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • bfloo
    13709 posts Member

    I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.

    You are citing issues I generally don't run into. Why should I have to have something I enjoy because other people have different experiences. There are times I'm glad that one player quit because he was just holding us back anyway. I've had games that were a blood bath at 4v4 turn into 2v4's and we staged a comeback (still lost but turned a 5 point deficit into 2 at the end).

    As far as the og bf2 goes, you can't compare a player base from back then to now. Gaming communities were not nearly as toxic back then as they are now.

    Look at Dice's track record with this game, they have disappointed us every chance that they've gotten. Don't pull a mode a lot of people enjoy and trust them to make something better.

    I don't follow reddit, but if the 50 or so of us who regularly post on this forum are a major part of the community, this game has bigger problems than leaving in 2 4v4 hero modes.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • bfloo wrote: »

    I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.

    You are citing issues I generally don't run into. Why should I have to have something I enjoy because other people have different experiences. There are times I'm glad that one player quit because he was just holding us back anyway. I've had games that were a blood bath at 4v4 turn into 2v4's and we staged a comeback (still lost but turned a 5 point deficit into 2 at the end).

    As far as the og bf2 goes, you can't compare a player base from back then to now. Gaming communities were not nearly as toxic back then as they are now.

    Look at Dice's track record with this game, they have disappointed us every chance that they've gotten. Don't pull a mode a lot of people enjoy and trust them to make something better.

    I don't follow reddit, but if the 50 or so of us who regularly post on this forum are a major part of the community, this game has bigger problems than leaving in 2 4v4 hero modes.

    Because it is inefficient and takes away developmental resources which can be put into making the game even better.

    You must not have played OG BF 2 because people were just as toxic if not more. People now get offended easily, if you heard the stuff from back in the day youd likely quit.

    Which exactly why I am saying they need to focus on less content but make that content as polished as possible for a smooth game with less bugs and annoying glitches.
    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • bfloo
    13709 posts Member
    bfloo wrote: »

    I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.

    You are citing issues I generally don't run into. Why should I have to have something I enjoy because other people have different experiences. There are times I'm glad that one player quit because he was just holding us back anyway. I've had games that were a blood bath at 4v4 turn into 2v4's and we staged a comeback (still lost but turned a 5 point deficit into 2 at the end).

    As far as the og bf2 goes, you can't compare a player base from back then to now. Gaming communities were not nearly as toxic back then as they are now.

    Look at Dice's track record with this game, they have disappointed us every chance that they've gotten. Don't pull a mode a lot of people enjoy and trust them to make something better.

    I don't follow reddit, but if the 50 or so of us who regularly post on this forum are a major part of the community, this game has bigger problems than leaving in 2 4v4 hero modes.

    Because it is inefficient and takes away developmental resources which can be put into making the game even better.

    You must not have played OG BF 2 because people were just as toxic if not more. People now get offended easily, if you heard the stuff from back in the day youd likely quit.

    Which exactly why I am saying they need to focus on less content but make that content as polished as possible for a smooth game with less bugs and annoying glitches.

    How are they taking resources away? The current HvV hasn't been touched in ages.

    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • Billkwando
    1145 posts Member
    edited January 11
    Stating opinions as fact (over and over), poor reasoning, and personal insults (Boba player=bad person) aren't helping to win any arguments.
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sort of an atypical/joke song, all their other songs are way better)

    Gamertag: Billkwando
    Find me circling, and crashing, in Starfighter Assault.
  • bfloo wrote: »

    I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.

    You are citing issues I generally don't run into. Why should I have to have something I enjoy because other people have different experiences. There are times I'm glad that one player quit because he was just holding us back anyway. I've had games that were a blood bath at 4v4 turn into 2v4's and we staged a comeback (still lost but turned a 5 point deficit into 2 at the end).

    As far as the og bf2 goes, you can't compare a player base from back then to now. Gaming communities were not nearly as toxic back then as they are now.

    Look at Dice's track record with this game, they have disappointed us every chance that they've gotten. Don't pull a mode a lot of people enjoy and trust them to make something better.

    I don't follow reddit, but if the 50 or so of us who regularly post on this forum are a major part of the community, this game has bigger problems than leaving in 2 4v4 hero modes.

    Because it is inefficient and takes away developmental resources which can be put into making the game even better.

    You must not have played OG BF 2 because people were just as toxic if not more. People now get offended easily, if you heard the stuff from back in the day youd likely quit.

    Which exactly why I am saying they need to focus on less content but make that content as polished as possible for a smooth game with less bugs and annoying glitches.

    Man, you've got it all wrong here.

    What's efficient is HvV.

    You want to change that, but not if it involves any kind of test of running your new Blast mode in a contest of popularity against HvV.

    And do you actually believe that a 1v1 HS would fracture the HS player base in any noticeable way or did you just reason yourself into a corner?

    If that's true, I assure that is on a platform that isn't Xbox and on a server that isn't Virginia, in which case, you're doomed no matter what happens.

    Get an Xbox?
  • bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »

    I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.

    You are citing issues I generally don't run into. Why should I have to have something I enjoy because other people have different experiences. There are times I'm glad that one player quit because he was just holding us back anyway. I've had games that were a blood bath at 4v4 turn into 2v4's and we staged a comeback (still lost but turned a 5 point deficit into 2 at the end).

    As far as the og bf2 goes, you can't compare a player base from back then to now. Gaming communities were not nearly as toxic back then as they are now.

    Look at Dice's track record with this game, they have disappointed us every chance that they've gotten. Don't pull a mode a lot of people enjoy and trust them to make something better.

    I don't follow reddit, but if the 50 or so of us who regularly post on this forum are a major part of the community, this game has bigger problems than leaving in 2 4v4 hero modes.

    Because it is inefficient and takes away developmental resources which can be put into making the game even better.

    You must not have played OG BF 2 because people were just as toxic if not more. People now get offended easily, if you heard the stuff from back in the day youd likely quit.

    Which exactly why I am saying they need to focus on less content but make that content as polished as possible for a smooth game with less bugs and annoying glitches.

    How are they taking resources away? The current HvV hasn't been touched in ages.

    Maintaining servers. All the potential bug fixes that should happen. New content such as HvV specific maps etc.

    I mean there was supposed to be Crait HvV months ago.
    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆

  • I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.

    *sighs*... I will demonstrate restraint.

    The result of a zero sum game is always zero. If you apply this to a debate, then the pros and cons of the opponents will fully balance out, and also always equal zero. Upon analysis, or any decision making process, if the result is zero sum, then nothing changes. No policy, procedure, or anything else changes unless either pros, or cons, outweigh the other. If you really want to apply a zero sum game to our discussion then fine. Since our opposing points have balanced out to zero, and there is no argument stronger than the other, the status quo will remain, and so will HvV.

    There are no resources being used to maintain the game that are being withheld from development. That’s not how it works. Development is its own department.

    TDM May be more fun... to you. That’s subjective. Honestly, I’m very interested in it myself and may even like it better in the end. Here’s a couple of issue that you can immediately expect though. Running will likely still be a part of it, but almost certainly to a lesser degree. Map exploiters... no reason. If randoms run or exploit their teammates may quit but these will be much fewer. Steamrolls will be the order of the day and the DS’s dominance will be amplified. Quitting will increase as a result and you might be lucky to actually finish one full match in five. Balanced, close matches, minus the target objective, will be virtually nonexistent.
  • bfloo
    13709 posts Member

    I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.

    *sighs*... I will demonstrate restraint.

    The result of a zero sum game is always zero. If you apply this to a debate, then the pros and cons of the opponents will fully balance out, and also always equal zero. Upon analysis, or any decision making process, if the result is zero sum, then nothing changes. No policy, procedure, or anything else changes unless either pros, or cons, outweigh the other. If you really want to apply a zero sum game to our discussion then fine. Since our opposing points have balanced out to zero, and there is no argument stronger than the other, the status quo will remain, and so will HvV.

    There are no resources being used to maintain the game that are being withheld from development. That’s not how it works. Development is its own department.

    TDM May be more fun... to you. That’s subjective. Honestly, I’m very interested in it myself and may even like it better in the end. Here’s a couple of issue that you can immediately expect though. Running will likely still be a part of it, but almost certainly to a lesser degree. Map exploiters... no reason. If randoms run or exploit their teammates may quit but these will be much fewer. Steamrolls will be the order of the day and the DS’s dominance will be amplified. Quitting will increase as a result and you might be lucky to actually finish one full match in five. Balanced, close matches, minus the target objective, will be virtually nonexistent.

    ay07mgqglaww.png


    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png



  • I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.

    *sighs*... I will demonstrate restraint.

    The result of a zero sum game is always zero. If you apply this to a debate, then the pros and cons of the opponents will fully balance out, and also always equal zero. Upon analysis, or any decision making process, if the result is zero sum, then nothing changes. No policy, procedure, or anything else changes unless either pros, or cons, outweigh the other. If you really want to apply a zero sum game to our discussion then fine. Since our opposing points have balanced out to zero, and there is no argument stronger than the other, the status quo will remain, and so will HvV.

    There are no resources being used to maintain the game that are being withheld from development. That’s not how it works. Development is its own department.

    TDM May be more fun... to you. That’s subjective. Honestly, I’m very interested in it myself and may even like it better in the end. Here’s a couple of issue that you can immediately expect though. Running will likely still be a part of it, but almost certainly to a lesser degree. Map exploiters... no reason. If randoms run or exploit their teammates may quit but these will be much fewer. Steamrolls will be the order of the day and the DS’s dominance will be amplified. Quitting will increase as a result and you might be lucky to actually finish one full match in five. Balanced, close matches, minus the target objective, will be virtually nonexistent.
    Which is my point. Putting resources into the target system takes away from other development. Hence a zero sum game.

    There is definitely resources being put into maintaining the game- servers need to be taken care of. There are potential bug fixes that should be dealt with. New content as such as Crait HvV which is still on the back burner because of the lack of resources.

    TDM or the like would definitely have less problems. If you had played OG BF 2 you wouldn't even make such a claim. Balancing issues are separate from the characteristics of the mode itself.
    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • To add to @Darth_Vapor3 's point.... people like to complain about chokepoints. TDM is just gonna be one big chokepoint, where people find their favorite place to camp.

    Last night, my wife and I encountered the worst campers I've ever seen, in one of those round control rooms on Kessel. Literally the ONLY way we could get them to stop camping was to take the room from them.

    When we came in, 2 people had quit and we were on the losing side. By the time it was over, we had turned the tide and beat them 0-1. I can tell you now, vindication and fun are NOT the same thing. It took forever and sucked the joy out of playing. We ended up calling it a night after that.

    That's what you're gonna end up with if you get what you want. A boring king of the hill type brawl.....except unlike king of the hill, there will be no motivation to move, so it's basically who wants to walk into the other team's meat grinder first, or who gets bored with it and quits.
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sort of an atypical/joke song, all their other songs are way better)

    Gamertag: Billkwando
    Find me circling, and crashing, in Starfighter Assault.
  • AzorAhai wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »

    I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.

    You are citing issues I generally don't run into. Why should I have to have something I enjoy because other people have different experiences. There are times I'm glad that one player quit because he was just holding us back anyway. I've had games that were a blood bath at 4v4 turn into 2v4's and we staged a comeback (still lost but turned a 5 point deficit into 2 at the end).

    As far as the og bf2 goes, you can't compare a player base from back then to now. Gaming communities were not nearly as toxic back then as they are now.

    Look at Dice's track record with this game, they have disappointed us every chance that they've gotten. Don't pull a mode a lot of people enjoy and trust them to make something better.

    I don't follow reddit, but if the 50 or so of us who regularly post on this forum are a major part of the community, this game has bigger problems than leaving in 2 4v4 hero modes.

    Because it is inefficient and takes away developmental resources which can be put into making the game even better.

    You must not have played OG BF 2 because people were just as toxic if not more. People now get offended easily, if you heard the stuff from back in the day youd likely quit.

    Which exactly why I am saying they need to focus on less content but make that content as polished as possible for a smooth game with less bugs and annoying glitches.

    Man, you've got it all wrong here.

    What's efficient is HvV.

    You want to change that, but not if it involves any kind of test of running your new Blast mode in a contest of popularity against HvV.

    And do you actually believe that a 1v1 HS would fracture the HS player base in any noticeable way or did you just reason yourself into a corner?

    If that's true, I assure that is on a platform that isn't Xbox and on a server that isn't Virginia, in which case, you're doomed no matter what happens.

    Get an Xbox?

    You fail to even understand the point. This all in regards to if TDM is eventually introduced.. which is likely given the overwhelming feedback.

    Keeping the target HvV then would just take up resources since they'd have to maintain it along with the other modes. There are countless bugs and glitches and new content that need to be addressed but because of the already present lack of resources- it is lower priority.

    1v1 would inherently be easier to find matches since it's 2 people.. If someone quits it is insignificant and doesn't drag down the experience of everyone else.
    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • AzorAhai wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »

    I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.

    You are citing issues I generally don't run into. Why should I have to have something I enjoy because other people have different experiences. There are times I'm glad that one player quit because he was just holding us back anyway. I've had games that were a blood bath at 4v4 turn into 2v4's and we staged a comeback (still lost but turned a 5 point deficit into 2 at the end).

    As far as the og bf2 goes, you can't compare a player base from back then to now. Gaming communities were not nearly as toxic back then as they are now.

    Look at Dice's track record with this game, they have disappointed us every chance that they've gotten. Don't pull a mode a lot of people enjoy and trust them to make something better.

    I don't follow reddit, but if the 50 or so of us who regularly post on this forum are a major part of the community, this game has bigger problems than leaving in 2 4v4 hero modes.

    Because it is inefficient and takes away developmental resources which can be put into making the game even better.

    You must not have played OG BF 2 because people were just as toxic if not more. People now get offended easily, if you heard the stuff from back in the day youd likely quit.

    Which exactly why I am saying they need to focus on less content but make that content as polished as possible for a smooth game with less bugs and annoying glitches.

    Man, you've got it all wrong here.

    What's efficient is HvV.

    You want to change that, but not if it involves any kind of test of running your new Blast mode in a contest of popularity against HvV.

    And do you actually believe that a 1v1 HS would fracture the HS player base in any noticeable way or did you just reason yourself into a corner?

    If that's true, I assure that is on a platform that isn't Xbox and on a server that isn't Virginia, in which case, you're doomed no matter what happens.

    Get an Xbox?

    You fail to even understand the point. This all in regards to if TDM is eventually introduced.. which is likely given the overwhelming feedback.

    Keeping the target HvV then would just take up resources since they'd have to maintain it along with the other modes. There are countless bugs and glitches and new content that need to be addressed but because of the already present lack of resources- it is lower priority.

    1v1 would inherently be easier to find matches since it's 2 people.. If someone quits it is insignificant and doesn't drag down the experience of everyone else.


  • I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.

    *sighs*... I will demonstrate restraint.

    The result of a zero sum game is always zero. If you apply this to a debate, then the pros and cons of the opponents will fully balance out, and also always equal zero. Upon analysis, or any decision making process, if the result is zero sum, then nothing changes. No policy, procedure, or anything else changes unless either pros, or cons, outweigh the other. If you really want to apply a zero sum game to our discussion then fine. Since our opposing points have balanced out to zero, and there is no argument stronger than the other, the status quo will remain, and so will HvV.

    There are no resources being used to maintain the game that are being withheld from development. That’s not how it works. Development is its own department.

    TDM May be more fun... to you. That’s subjective. Honestly, I’m very interested in it myself and may even like it better in the end. Here’s a couple of issue that you can immediately expect though. Running will likely still be a part of it, but almost certainly to a lesser degree. Map exploiters... no reason. If randoms run or exploit their teammates may quit but these will be much fewer. Steamrolls will be the order of the day and the DS’s dominance will be amplified. Quitting will increase as a result and you might be lucky to actually finish one full match in five. Balanced, close matches, minus the target objective, will be virtually nonexistent.
    Which is my point. Putting resources into the target system takes away from other development. Hence a zero sum game.

    There is definitely resources being put into maintaining the game- servers need to be taken care of. There are potential bug fixes that should be dealt with. New content as such as Crait HvV which is still on the back burner because of the lack of resources.

    TDM or the like would definitely have less problems. If you had played OG BF 2 you wouldn't even make such a claim. Balancing issues are separate from the characteristics of the mode itself.

    Look, maintaining servers is Operations. Development is an entirely different group. And server maintenance is a job encompassing the whole system. Not a single individual or group is being assigned the task of just maintaining the target system. I’ve realized you are a sharp fella but that assertion is just inaccurate.

    I didn’t play OG BF2, but I would like to play the mode you speak of, as a new one in this game. You see the commonality here? More, not less is better. I challenge you to find a single complaint in this forum about having too much content.

    I’ll just come out and say it. It’s obvious really. HvV, and the target system isn’t going anywhere. If Hero Blast makes its way into this game on a permanent basis, it will be as its own mode. A player’s gameplay toxicity cannot be governed by a ruleset.
  • AzorAhai wrote: »
    AzorAhai wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »

    I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.

    You are citing issues I generally don't run into. Why should I have to have something I enjoy because other people have different experiences. There are times I'm glad that one player quit because he was just holding us back anyway. I've had games that were a blood bath at 4v4 turn into 2v4's and we staged a comeback (still lost but turned a 5 point deficit into 2 at the end).

    As far as the og bf2 goes, you can't compare a player base from back then to now. Gaming communities were not nearly as toxic back then as they are now.

    Look at Dice's track record with this game, they have disappointed us every chance that they've gotten. Don't pull a mode a lot of people enjoy and trust them to make something better.

    I don't follow reddit, but if the 50 or so of us who regularly post on this forum are a major part of the community, this game has bigger problems than leaving in 2 4v4 hero modes.

    Because it is inefficient and takes away developmental resources which can be put into making the game even better.

    You must not have played OG BF 2 because people were just as toxic if not more. People now get offended easily, if you heard the stuff from back in the day youd likely quit.

    Which exactly why I am saying they need to focus on less content but make that content as polished as possible for a smooth game with less bugs and annoying glitches.

    Man, you've got it all wrong here.

    What's efficient is HvV.

    You want to change that, but not if it involves any kind of test of running your new Blast mode in a contest of popularity against HvV.

    And do you actually believe that a 1v1 HS would fracture the HS player base in any noticeable way or did you just reason yourself into a corner?

    If that's true, I assure that is on a platform that isn't Xbox and on a server that isn't Virginia, in which case, you're doomed no matter what happens.

    Get an Xbox?

    You fail to even understand the point. This all in regards to if TDM is eventually introduced.. which is likely given the overwhelming feedback.

    Keeping the target HvV then would just take up resources since they'd have to maintain it along with the other modes. There are countless bugs and glitches and new content that need to be addressed but because of the already present lack of resources- it is lower priority.

    1v1 would inherently be easier to find matches since it's 2 people.. If someone quits it is insignificant and doesn't drag down the experience of everyone else.

    Look, maintaining servers is Operations. Development is an entirely different group. And server maintenance is a job encompassing the whole system. Not a single individual or group is being assigned the task of just maintaining the target system. I’ve realized you are a sharp fella but that assertion is just inaccurate.

    I didn’t play OG BF2, but I would like to play the mode you speak of, as a new one in this game. You see the commonality here? More, not less is better. I challenge you to find a single complaint in this forum about having too much content.

    I’ll just come out and say it. It’s obvious really. HvV, and the target system isn’t going anywhere. If Hero Blast makes its way into this game on a permanent basis, it will be as its own mode. A player’s gameplay toxicity cannot be governed by a ruleset.

    You miss the point. It requires funding and support from the higher ups. There is a budget that has to be followed. The more content the more you'd have to maintain and the more bugs and glitches would arise.

    So less is actually better. It allows for a more polished playable game than bug ridden game we have now.

    I know you didn't play OG BF 2. I could tell from the way you post.

    This is why I am saying don't knock something you don't know about. The experience of TDM in OG BF 2 is vastly superior to the target system.
    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • AzorAhai wrote: »
    AzorAhai wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »

    I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.

    You are citing issues I generally don't run into. Why should I have to have something I enjoy because other people have different experiences. There are times I'm glad that one player quit because he was just holding us back anyway. I've had games that were a blood bath at 4v4 turn into 2v4's and we staged a comeback (still lost but turned a 5 point deficit into 2 at the end).

    As far as the og bf2 goes, you can't compare a player base from back then to now. Gaming communities were not nearly as toxic back then as they are now.

    Look at Dice's track record with this game, they have disappointed us every chance that they've gotten. Don't pull a mode a lot of people enjoy and trust them to make something better.

    I don't follow reddit, but if the 50 or so of us who regularly post on this forum are a major part of the community, this game has bigger problems than leaving in 2 4v4 hero modes.

    Because it is inefficient and takes away developmental resources which can be put into making the game even better.

    You must not have played OG BF 2 because people were just as toxic if not more. People now get offended easily, if you heard the stuff from back in the day youd likely quit.

    Which exactly why I am saying they need to focus on less content but make that content as polished as possible for a smooth game with less bugs and annoying glitches.

    Man, you've got it all wrong here.

    What's efficient is HvV.

    You want to change that, but not if it involves any kind of test of running your new Blast mode in a contest of popularity against HvV.

    And do you actually believe that a 1v1 HS would fracture the HS player base in any noticeable way or did you just reason yourself into a corner?

    If that's true, I assure that is on a platform that isn't Xbox and on a server that isn't Virginia, in which case, you're doomed no matter what happens.

    Get an Xbox?

    You fail to even understand the point. This all in regards to if TDM is eventually introduced.. which is likely given the overwhelming feedback.

    Keeping the target HvV then would just take up resources since they'd have to maintain it along with the other modes. There are countless bugs and glitches and new content that need to be addressed but because of the already present lack of resources- it is lower priority.

    1v1 would inherently be easier to find matches since it's 2 people.. If someone quits it is insignificant and doesn't drag down the experience of everyone else.

    Look, maintaining servers is Operations. Development is an entirely different group. And server maintenance is a job encompassing the whole system. Not a single individual or group is being assigned the task of just maintaining the target system. I’ve realized you are a sharp fella but that assertion is just inaccurate.

    I didn’t play OG BF2, but I would like to play the mode you speak of, as a new one in this game. You see the commonality here? More, not less is better. I challenge you to find a single complaint in this forum about having too much content.

    I’ll just come out and say it. It’s obvious really. HvV, and the target system isn’t going anywhere. If Hero Blast makes its way into this game on a permanent basis, it will be as its own mode. A player’s gameplay toxicity cannot be governed by a ruleset.

    You miss the point. It requires funding and support from the higher ups. There is a budget that has to be followed. The more content the more you'd have to maintain and the more bugs and glitches would arise.

    So less is actually better. It allows for a more polished playable game than bug ridden game we have now.

    I know you didn't play OG BF 2. I could tell from the way you post.

    This is why I am saying don't knock something you don't know about. The experience of TDM in OG BF 2 is vastly superior to the target system.

    It's cool that you got to play that old mode.

    I'm up for giving it a go.

    Most of us aren't up for getting rid of something we have, and enjoy, in the hopes that said new mode will be the end-all be-all that we desire.

    Push for a new mode, and we're all on your side...well most of us...that's the entire point of this thread, as I read the OP.
  • Billkwando
    1145 posts Member
    edited January 11
    I know you didn't play OG BF 2. I could tell from the way you post.

    This is why I am saying don't knock something you don't know about. The experience of TDM in OG BF 2 is vastly superior to the target system.

    Congratulations. You are fantastic at repeating yourself, debating minutiae, and talking in circles. Your hyperbolic hypotheticals aren't making TDM sound any more like a viable or desirable option (to replace the current system).

    AzorAhai wrote: »
    Push for a new mode, and we're all on your side...well most of us...that's the entire point of this thread, as I read the OP.

    Yes.
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sort of an atypical/joke song, all their other songs are way better)

    Gamertag: Billkwando
    Find me circling, and crashing, in Starfighter Assault.
  • AzorAhai wrote: »
    It's cool that you got to play that old mode.

    I'm up for giving it a go.

    Most of us aren't up for getting rid of something we have, and enjoy, in the hopes that said new mode will be the end-all be-all that we desire.

    Push for a new mode, and we're all on your side...well most of us...that's the entire point of this thread, as I read the OP.
    You miss the point yet again. It is splitting the player base and taking up more resources which could be used elsewhere.
    Like actually having a consistently playable game.
    Rather than be filled with 'new content' that is just poorly implemented.
    Billkwando wrote: »

    Congratulations. You are fantastic at repeating yourself, debating minutiae, and talking in circles. Your hyperbolic hypotheticals aren't making TDM sound any more like a viable or desirable option.
    I am not here to sell you anything. There is already going to be a event to test it out.

    It's clear you haven't played OG BF 2 either. Go watch some old videos of it or something you'd actually have something substantial to write.

    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • Billkwando
    1145 posts Member
    edited January 11
    It's clear you haven't played OG BF 2 either. Go watch some old videos of it or something you'd actually have something substantial to write.

    You are like a broken record. I don't care about OG BF2. The irony here is you talking about having something substantial to write when all you've been doing is repeating yourself and remaking the same points, as if they're suddenly going to sound better.
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sort of an atypical/joke song, all their other songs are way better)

    Gamertag: Billkwando
    Find me circling, and crashing, in Starfighter Assault.
  • Billkwando wrote: »
    You are like a broken record. I don't care about OG BF2. The irony here is you talking about having something substantial to write when all you've been doing is repeating yourself and remaking the same points, as if they're suddenly going to sound better.
    You are just mad. You can conduct yourself with class instead of trying attack me rather than my argument.

    Again I am not here to sell you anything. That has already been done by the rest of the community since the devs are going to have an event to test it out.

    It seems you don't understand the concept of reiteration either.

    You don't know about OG BF 2. You are acting so hostile over something so trivial as a video game.
    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • Billkwando wrote: »
    You are like a broken record. I don't care about OG BF2. The irony here is you talking about having something substantial to write when all you've been doing is repeating yourself and remaking the same points, as if they're suddenly going to sound better.
    You are just mad. You can conduct yourself with class instead of trying attack me rather than my argument.

    Again I am not here to sell you anything. That has already been done by the rest of the community since the devs are going to have an event to test it out.

    It seems you don't understand the concept of reiteration either.

    You don't know about OG BF 2. You are acting so hostile over something so trivial as a video game.

    Look, I apologize if I have offended in any way. I'm okay with trying a new mode, and I think the whole point of this thread was to build a bridge half-way to those that hate the 'target system.' I've tried to build my half of the bridge, and probably have failed to some degree. My excuse is that I'm tired, and glad it's friday.

    Have a great weekend Johnmangala!
  • Darth_Vapor3
    2608 posts Member
    edited January 11
    AzorAhai wrote: »
    AzorAhai wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »

    I see your on PS4. I’m sorry, I feel for you. On Xbox we’re not getting empty lobbies. Another 8 player mode won’t split the player base. Not for us.

    The meaning of zero sum game doesn’t apply to this discussion. If we did, loosely, stretch its meaning to the different points of views in this debate, it would be an argument against you. But I know... it sounds good.

    As far as 2015’s HvV... Sounds like a fun mode to me. Let’s add that too. HvV is a heavily played mode. Sure, there are some valid complaints, but when played properly, which is what I and many others experience, it’s great.

    Reddit. Those who are dissatisfied complain. Those who are not dissatisfied don’t perpetually post positive feedback, but instead simply enjoy said satisfaction.

    I have nothing against Hero Blast, and would enjoy playing it. There is no valid reason to replace HvV to have it though. Add it.
    I never said HvV has empty lobbies I am saying there would be more empty lobbies when the player base is fractioned. HS on the other had perpetually has empty lobbies.

    It definitely a zero sum game. The fact you would even try to dispute that demonstrates your lack of understanding.

    There are limited resources and time. Dedicating resources to maintaining game modes takes away from other development. So the less but more popular the better.

    I am not talking about BF 2015. I am referring to the OG BF 2 from 2005. Which had TDM basically and was way more fun with less quits and steamrolling.
    bfloo wrote: »

    Not if the quitters all go to hero blast.

    8cqh5ewa34ud.png

    Which would leave target HvV relatively empty and redundant.

    You are citing issues I generally don't run into. Why should I have to have something I enjoy because other people have different experiences. There are times I'm glad that one player quit because he was just holding us back anyway. I've had games that were a blood bath at 4v4 turn into 2v4's and we staged a comeback (still lost but turned a 5 point deficit into 2 at the end).

    As far as the og bf2 goes, you can't compare a player base from back then to now. Gaming communities were not nearly as toxic back then as they are now.

    Look at Dice's track record with this game, they have disappointed us every chance that they've gotten. Don't pull a mode a lot of people enjoy and trust them to make something better.

    I don't follow reddit, but if the 50 or so of us who regularly post on this forum are a major part of the community, this game has bigger problems than leaving in 2 4v4 hero modes.

    Because it is inefficient and takes away developmental resources which can be put into making the game even better.

    You must not have played OG BF 2 because people were just as toxic if not more. People now get offended easily, if you heard the stuff from back in the day youd likely quit.

    Which exactly why I am saying they need to focus on less content but make that content as polished as possible for a smooth game with less bugs and annoying glitches.

    Man, you've got it all wrong here.

    What's efficient is HvV.

    You want to change that, but not if it involves any kind of test of running your new Blast mode in a contest of popularity against HvV.

    And do you actually believe that a 1v1 HS would fracture the HS player base in any noticeable way or did you just reason yourself into a corner?

    If that's true, I assure that is on a platform that isn't Xbox and on a server that isn't Virginia, in which case, you're doomed no matter what happens.

    Get an Xbox?

    You fail to even understand the point. This all in regards to if TDM is eventually introduced.. which is likely given the overwhelming feedback.

    Keeping the target HvV then would just take up resources since they'd have to maintain it along with the other modes. There are countless bugs and glitches and new content that need to be addressed but because of the already present lack of resources- it is lower priority.

    1v1 would inherently be easier to find matches since it's 2 people.. If someone quits it is insignificant and doesn't drag down the experience of everyone else.

    Look, maintaining servers is Operations. Development is an entirely different group. And server maintenance is a job encompassing the whole system. Not a single individual or group is being assigned the task of just maintaining the target system. I’ve realized you are a sharp fella but that assertion is just inaccurate.

    I didn’t play OG BF2, but I would like to play the mode you speak of, as a new one in this game. You see the commonality here? More, not less is better. I challenge you to find a single complaint in this forum about having too much content.

    I’ll just come out and say it. It’s obvious really. HvV, and the target system isn’t going anywhere. If Hero Blast makes its way into this game on a permanent basis, it will be as its own mode. A player’s gameplay toxicity cannot be governed by a ruleset.

    You miss the point. It requires funding and support from the higher ups. There is a budget that has to be followed. The more content the more you'd have to maintain and the more bugs and glitches would arise.

    So less is actually better. It allows for a more polished playable game than bug ridden game we have now.

    I know you didn't play OG BF 2. I could tell from the way you post.

    This is why I am saying don't knock something you don't know about. The experience of TDM in OG BF 2 is vastly superior to the target system.

    I haven’t missed the point, I simply disagree with it. No, I don’t agree that a budgetary committee or some such will have to have meetings in order to decide the economic value of adding Hero Blast as a new mode as opposed replacing HvV. That scenario is unrealistic. All the pertinent mechanics are already accomplished with other existing modes. It would amount to little difference than the minor adjustments necessary regarding the weekend events they already provide.

    Not once have I knocked TDM. Quite the contrary, I’ve posted support for it for months. Just not at the expense of existing content. Which is superior is of personal subjectivity and irrelevant to our fine discussion. I say again... I would very much like to play Hero Blast. It deserves a place in this game. Just not at the expense of existing content(HvV), which I and many others enjoy.

    I’d also like to take this opportunity to compliment you in the way that you’ve composed yourself in our debate. There are many around here that would have resorted to aggressive, personal attacks by now. I tip my hat to you.
  • AzorAhai wrote: »
    Look, I apologize if I have offended in any way. I'm okay with trying a new mode, and I think the whole point of this thread was to build a bridge half-way to those that hate the 'target system.' I've tried to build my half of the bridge, and probably have failed to some degree. My excuse is that I'm tired, and glad it's friday.

    Have a great weekend Johnmangala!
    I wasn't referring to you but cheers.
    I personally wouldn't care if the target system remains. I just feel it would be better for the whole game if there were more time and resources available.
    I haven’t missed the point, I simply disagree with it. No, I don’t agree that a budgetary committee or some such will have to have meetings in order to decide the economic value of adding Hero Blast as a new mode as opposed replacing HvV. That scenario is unrealistic. All the pertinent mechanics are already accomplished with other existing modes. It would amount to little difference than the minor adjustments necessary regarding the weekend events they already provide.

    Not once have I knocked TDM. Quite the contrary, I’ve posted support for it for months. Just not at the expense of existing content. Which is superior is of personal subjectivity and irrelevant to our fine discussion. I say again... I would very much like to play Hero Blast. I deserves a place in this game. Just not at the expense of existing content(HvV), which I and many others enjoy.

    I’d also like to take this opportunity to compliment you in the way that you’ve composed yourself in our debate. There are many around here that would have resorted to aggressive, personal attacks by now. I tip my hat to you.

    There would definitely be economic implications to keeping or replacing the target system. Just because you don't think so doesn't mean a multi-million dollar company that is notorious for being money grabbing wouldn't consider cost cutting in any feasible manner.

    The devs have limited resources as is. There have been several promises such as private matches etc that haven't been fulfilled. It is definitely due to lack of resources.

    I am not saying it will or won't happen just that I'm it would be better for the rest of the game if there were more resources and time available to spread across and polish the content.

    You underestimate Dev time. I mean one could think porting BF 2015 content would be easy or fixing bugs.. but it is far more complex.

    Fair enough that is your opinion. I am just stating my experience because I have played both.

    I appreciate it- same goes to you. Cheers
    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • AzorAhai wrote: »
    Look, I apologize if I have offended in any way. I'm okay with trying a new mode, and I think the whole point of this thread was to build a bridge half-way to those that hate the 'target system.' I've tried to build my half of the bridge, and probably have failed to some degree. My excuse is that I'm tired, and glad it's friday.

    Have a great weekend Johnmangala!
    I wasn't referring to you but cheers.
    I personally wouldn't care if the target system remains. I just feel it would be better for the whole game if there were more time and resources available.
    I haven’t missed the point, I simply disagree with it. No, I don’t agree that a budgetary committee or some such will have to have meetings in order to decide the economic value of adding Hero Blast as a new mode as opposed replacing HvV. That scenario is unrealistic. All the pertinent mechanics are already accomplished with other existing modes. It would amount to little difference than the minor adjustments necessary regarding the weekend events they already provide.

    Not once have I knocked TDM. Quite the contrary, I’ve posted support for it for months. Just not at the expense of existing content. Which is superior is of personal subjectivity and irrelevant to our fine discussion. I say again... I would very much like to play Hero Blast. I deserves a place in this game. Just not at the expense of existing content(HvV), which I and many others enjoy.

    I’d also like to take this opportunity to compliment you in the way that you’ve composed yourself in our debate. There are many around here that would have resorted to aggressive, personal attacks by now. I tip my hat to you.

    There would definitely be economic implications to keeping or replacing the target system. Just because you don't think so doesn't mean a multi-million dollar company that is notorious for being money grabbing wouldn't consider cost cutting in any feasible manner.

    The devs have limited resources as is. There have been several promises such as private matches etc that haven't been fulfilled. It is definitely due to lack of resources.

    I am not saying it will or won't happen just that I'm it would be better for the rest of the game if there were more resources and time available to spread across and polish the content.

    You underestimate Dev time. I mean one could think porting BF 2015 content would be easy or fixing bugs.. but it is far more complex.

    Fair enough that is your opinion. I am just stating my experience because I have played both.

    I appreciate it- same goes to you. Cheers

    Ben himself has addressed two of your points previously. I’ll summarize because I’m not going to spend the time hunting then down.
    1. It is, according to him, more complex to port over maps from 2015 than one might think.
    2. Money is not an issue. They are not trying to capitalize on new content.
    That second point means that any shortage in resources is one of manpower and time. The good news is, like I said above, is that all the real work to bring Hero Blast into the game is already done. We have Blast, and we have heroes. Adding it as a new mode isn’t going to put a strain this multi million dollar company like you are suggesting.
  • bfloo
    13709 posts Member
    AzorAhai wrote: »
    Look, I apologize if I have offended in any way. I'm okay with trying a new mode, and I think the whole point of this thread was to build a bridge half-way to those that hate the 'target system.' I've tried to build my half of the bridge, and probably have failed to some degree. My excuse is that I'm tired, and glad it's friday.

    Have a great weekend Johnmangala!
    I wasn't referring to you but cheers.
    I personally wouldn't care if the target system remains. I just feel it would be better for the whole game if there were more time and resources available.
    I haven’t missed the point, I simply disagree with it. No, I don’t agree that a budgetary committee or some such will have to have meetings in order to decide the economic value of adding Hero Blast as a new mode as opposed replacing HvV. That scenario is unrealistic. All the pertinent mechanics are already accomplished with other existing modes. It would amount to little difference than the minor adjustments necessary regarding the weekend events they already provide.

    Not once have I knocked TDM. Quite the contrary, I’ve posted support for it for months. Just not at the expense of existing content. Which is superior is of personal subjectivity and irrelevant to our fine discussion. I say again... I would very much like to play Hero Blast. I deserves a place in this game. Just not at the expense of existing content(HvV), which I and many others enjoy.

    I’d also like to take this opportunity to compliment you in the way that you’ve composed yourself in our debate. There are many around here that would have resorted to aggressive, personal attacks by now. I tip my hat to you.

    There would definitely be economic implications to keeping or replacing the target system. Just because you don't think so doesn't mean a multi-million dollar company that is notorious for being money grabbing wouldn't consider cost cutting in any feasible manner.

    The devs have limited resources as is. There have been several promises such as private matches etc that haven't been fulfilled. It is definitely due to lack of resources.

    I am not saying it will or won't happen just that I'm it would be better for the rest of the game if there were more resources and time available to spread across and polish the content.

    You underestimate Dev time. I mean one could think porting BF 2015 content would be easy or fixing bugs.. but it is far more complex.

    Fair enough that is your opinion. I am just stating my experience because I have played both.

    I appreciate it- same goes to you. Cheers

    Ben himself has addressed two of your points previously. I’ll summarize because I’m not going to spend the time hunting then down.
    1. It is, according to him, more complex to port over maps from 2015 than one might think.
    2. Money is not an issue. They are not trying to capitalize on new content.
    That second point means that any shortage in resources is one of manpower and time. The good news is, like I said above, is that all the real work to bring Hero Blast into the game is already done. We have Blast, and we have heroes. Adding it as a new mode isn’t going to put a strain this multi million dollar company like you are suggesting.

    He also said it can't be done through a back end change. They should add it as a 'temp' mode for a month, the usual update cycle, and see how it goes. 2 weeks in they'll be able to see if it is worth keeping or not.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • Ben himself has addressed two of your points previously. I’ll summarize because I’m not going to spend the time hunting then down.
    1. It is, according to him, more complex to port over maps from 2015 than one might think.
    2. Money is not an issue. They are not trying to capitalize on new content.
    That second point means that any shortage in resources is one of manpower and time. The good news is, like I said above, is that all the real work to bring Hero Blast into the game is already done. We have Blast, and we have heroes. Adding it as a new mode isn’t going to put a strain this multi million dollar company like you are suggesting.
    That's what I'm saying in regards to point 1.

    Point 2. They are trying to capitalize on new content. They are trying to establish goodwill, along with any profit that comes along with it, to sustain or advance further endeavors.

    Meanwhile DICE has limited resources in terms of funding, manpower, and time to achieve this.

    I'm not saying EA doesn't have the funds for it. They clearly have more than enough. But the issue is not that much is allocated to the development of BF 2. They only have DICE working on it now and they are not staffed that much as earlier in the devs cycle.

    It definitely wouldn't strain them if EA was heavily invested in this project as they were in the beginning before the outcry against p2w and loot boxes and all the negative publicity that came along with it. But they are not anymore.

    Let me clarify I am not saying they cannot or do not have to capacity to add Hero Blast as a new mode. I am mean that there would be more resources available in eliminating loose ends.

    It would be fine if the target system remained, nothing catastrophic would happen. It's just more could be done with less.
    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • bfloo
    13709 posts Member
    Ben himself has addressed two of your points previously. I’ll summarize because I’m not going to spend the time hunting then down.
    1. It is, according to him, more complex to port over maps from 2015 than one might think.
    2. Money is not an issue. They are not trying to capitalize on new content.
    That second point means that any shortage in resources is one of manpower and time. The good news is, like I said above, is that all the real work to bring Hero Blast into the game is already done. We have Blast, and we have heroes. Adding it as a new mode isn’t going to put a strain this multi million dollar company like you are suggesting.
    That's what I'm saying in regards to point 1.

    Point 2. They are trying to capitalize on new content. They are trying to establish goodwill, along with any profit that comes along with it, to sustain or advance further endeavors.

    Meanwhile DICE has limited resources in terms of funding, manpower, and time to achieve this.

    I'm not saying EA doesn't have the funds for it. They clearly have more than enough. But the issue is not that much is allocated to the development of BF 2. They only have DICE working on it now and they are not staffed that much as earlier in the devs cycle.

    It definitely wouldn't strain them if EA was heavily invested in this project as they were in the beginning before the outcry against p2w and loot boxes and all the negative publicity that came along with it. But they are not anymore.

    Let me clarify I am not saying they cannot or do not have to capacity to add Hero Blast as a new mode. I am mean that there would be more resources available in eliminating loose ends.

    It would be fine if the target system remained, nothing catastrophic would happen. It's just more could be done with less.

    They would be better off cutting hero showdown, which I hear is dead anyway. I haven't tried it in months, I can't stand how it stops waiting for another player between rounds.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • bfloo wrote: »
    Ben himself has addressed two of your points previously. I’ll summarize because I’m not going to spend the time hunting then down.
    1. It is, according to him, more complex to port over maps from 2015 than one might think.
    2. Money is not an issue. They are not trying to capitalize on new content.
    That second point means that any shortage in resources is one of manpower and time. The good news is, like I said above, is that all the real work to bring Hero Blast into the game is already done. We have Blast, and we have heroes. Adding it as a new mode isn’t going to put a strain this multi million dollar company like you are suggesting.
    That's what I'm saying in regards to point 1.

    Point 2. They are trying to capitalize on new content. They are trying to establish goodwill, along with any profit that comes along with it, to sustain or advance further endeavors.

    Meanwhile DICE has limited resources in terms of funding, manpower, and time to achieve this.

    I'm not saying EA doesn't have the funds for it. They clearly have more than enough. But the issue is not that much is allocated to the development of BF 2. They only have DICE working on it now and they are not staffed that much as earlier in the devs cycle.

    It definitely wouldn't strain them if EA was heavily invested in this project as they were in the beginning before the outcry against p2w and loot boxes and all the negative publicity that came along with it. But they are not anymore.

    Let me clarify I am not saying they cannot or do not have to capacity to add Hero Blast as a new mode. I am mean that there would be more resources available in eliminating loose ends.

    It would be fine if the target system remained, nothing catastrophic would happen. It's just more could be done with less.

    They would be better off cutting hero showdown, which I hear is dead anyway. I haven't tried it in months, I can't stand how it stops waiting for another player between rounds.
    I agree. I actually enjoy HS but it's just a empty most of the time.

    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • Darth_Vapor3
    2608 posts Member
    edited January 12
    bfloo wrote: »
    Ben himself has addressed two of your points previously. I’ll summarize because I’m not going to spend the time hunting then down.
    1. It is, according to him, more complex to port over maps from 2015 than one might think.
    2. Money is not an issue. They are not trying to capitalize on new content.
    That second point means that any shortage in resources is one of manpower and time. The good news is, like I said above, is that all the real work to bring Hero Blast into the game is already done. We have Blast, and we have heroes. Adding it as a new mode isn’t going to put a strain this multi million dollar company like you are suggesting.
    That's what I'm saying in regards to point 1.

    Point 2. They are trying to capitalize on new content. They are trying to establish goodwill, along with any profit that comes along with it, to sustain or advance further endeavors.

    Meanwhile DICE has limited resources in terms of funding, manpower, and time to achieve this.

    I'm not saying EA doesn't have the funds for it. They clearly have more than enough. But the issue is not that much is allocated to the development of BF 2. They only have DICE working on it now and they are not staffed that much as earlier in the devs cycle.

    It definitely wouldn't strain them if EA was heavily invested in this project as they were in the beginning before the outcry against p2w and loot boxes and all the negative publicity that came along with it. But they are not anymore.

    Let me clarify I am not saying they cannot or do not have to capacity to add Hero Blast as a new mode. I am mean that there would be more resources available in eliminating loose ends.

    It would be fine if the target system remained, nothing catastrophic would happen. It's just more could be done with less.

    They would be better off cutting hero showdown, which I hear is dead anyway. I haven't tried it in months, I can't stand how it stops waiting for another player between rounds.

    I love Hero Showdown, but it’s whole design concept is to be played by a pair of friends, against a pair of friends. I’ve had success with a random... and also not. Win or lose, it’s better with a friend. We play it a lot.
  • Ben himself has addressed two of your points previously. I’ll summarize because I’m not going to spend the time hunting then down.
    1. It is, according to him, more complex to port over maps from 2015 than one might think.
    2. Money is not an issue. They are not trying to capitalize on new content.
    That second point means that any shortage in resources is one of manpower and time. The good news is, like I said above, is that all the real work to bring Hero Blast into the game is already done. We have Blast, and we have heroes. Adding it as a new mode isn’t going to put a strain this multi million dollar company like you are suggesting.
    That's what I'm saying in regards to point 1.

    Point 2. They are trying to capitalize on new content. They are trying to establish goodwill, along with any profit that comes along with it, to sustain or advance further endeavors.

    Meanwhile DICE has limited resources in terms of funding, manpower, and time to achieve this.

    I'm not saying EA doesn't have the funds for it. They clearly have more than enough. But the issue is not that much is allocated to the development of BF 2. They only have DICE working on it now and they are not staffed that much as earlier in the devs cycle.

    It definitely wouldn't strain them if EA was heavily invested in this project as they were in the beginning before the outcry against p2w and loot boxes and all the negative publicity that came along with it. But they are not anymore.

    Let me clarify I am not saying they cannot or do not have to capacity to add Hero Blast as a new mode. I am mean that there would be more resources available in eliminating loose ends.

    It would be fine if the target system remained, nothing catastrophic would happen. It's just more could be done with less.

    The we are at the crux. In my humble opinion, this game would be better with both HvV and Hero Blast, instead of one or the other.
  • bfloo
    13709 posts Member
    bfloo wrote: »
    Ben himself has addressed two of your points previously. I’ll summarize because I’m not going to spend the time hunting then down.
    1. It is, according to him, more complex to port over maps from 2015 than one might think.
    2. Money is not an issue. They are not trying to capitalize on new content.
    That second point means that any shortage in resources is one of manpower and time. The good news is, like I said above, is that all the real work to bring Hero Blast into the game is already done. We have Blast, and we have heroes. Adding it as a new mode isn’t going to put a strain this multi million dollar company like you are suggesting.
    That's what I'm saying in regards to point 1.

    Point 2. They are trying to capitalize on new content. They are trying to establish goodwill, along with any profit that comes along with it, to sustain or advance further endeavors.

    Meanwhile DICE has limited resources in terms of funding, manpower, and time to achieve this.

    I'm not saying EA doesn't have the funds for it. They clearly have more than enough. But the issue is not that much is allocated to the development of BF 2. They only have DICE working on it now and they are not staffed that much as earlier in the devs cycle.

    It definitely wouldn't strain them if EA was heavily invested in this project as they were in the beginning before the outcry against p2w and loot boxes and all the negative publicity that came along with it. But they are not anymore.

    Let me clarify I am not saying they cannot or do not have to capacity to add Hero Blast as a new mode. I am mean that there would be more resources available in eliminating loose ends.

    It would be fine if the target system remained, nothing catastrophic would happen. It's just more could be done with less.

    They would be better off cutting hero showdown, which I hear is dead anyway. I haven't tried it in months, I can't stand how it stops waiting for another player between rounds.

    I love Hero Showdown, but it’s whole design concept is to be played by a pair of friends, against a pair of friends. I’ve had success with a random... and also not. Win or lose, it’s better with a friend. We play it a lot.

    All I hear people say is it is empty. The concept was good, just bad execution.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    Ben himself has addressed two of your points previously. I’ll summarize because I’m not going to spend the time hunting then down.
    1. It is, according to him, more complex to port over maps from 2015 than one might think.
    2. Money is not an issue. They are not trying to capitalize on new content.
    That second point means that any shortage in resources is one of manpower and time. The good news is, like I said above, is that all the real work to bring Hero Blast into the game is already done. We have Blast, and we have heroes. Adding it as a new mode isn’t going to put a strain this multi million dollar company like you are suggesting.
    That's what I'm saying in regards to point 1.

    Point 2. They are trying to capitalize on new content. They are trying to establish goodwill, along with any profit that comes along with it, to sustain or advance further endeavors.

    Meanwhile DICE has limited resources in terms of funding, manpower, and time to achieve this.

    I'm not saying EA doesn't have the funds for it. They clearly have more than enough. But the issue is not that much is allocated to the development of BF 2. They only have DICE working on it now and they are not staffed that much as earlier in the devs cycle.

    It definitely wouldn't strain them if EA was heavily invested in this project as they were in the beginning before the outcry against p2w and loot boxes and all the negative publicity that came along with it. But they are not anymore.

    Let me clarify I am not saying they cannot or do not have to capacity to add Hero Blast as a new mode. I am mean that there would be more resources available in eliminating loose ends.

    It would be fine if the target system remained, nothing catastrophic would happen. It's just more could be done with less.

    They would be better off cutting hero showdown, which I hear is dead anyway. I haven't tried it in months, I can't stand how it stops waiting for another player between rounds.

    I love Hero Showdown, but it’s whole design concept is to be played by a pair of friends, against a pair of friends. I’ve had success with a random... and also not. Win or lose, it’s better with a friend. We play it a lot.

    All I hear people say is it is empty. The concept was good, just bad execution.

    Peak gaming hours there’s no problem. Early hours in the morning on weekdays... sure. Evenings and weekends, there’s always players. All praise to the Xbox Virginia servers.
  • [
    The we are at the crux. In my humble opinion, this game would be better with both HvV and Hero Blast, instead of one or the other.
    That's fair. In my experience, more can be done with less.
    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • bfloo
    13709 posts Member
    bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    Ben himself has addressed two of your points previously. I’ll summarize because I’m not going to spend the time hunting then down.
    1. It is, according to him, more complex to port over maps from 2015 than one might think.
    2. Money is not an issue. They are not trying to capitalize on new content.
    That second point means that any shortage in resources is one of manpower and time. The good news is, like I said above, is that all the real work to bring Hero Blast into the game is already done. We have Blast, and we have heroes. Adding it as a new mode isn’t going to put a strain this multi million dollar company like you are suggesting.
    That's what I'm saying in regards to point 1.

    Point 2. They are trying to capitalize on new content. They are trying to establish goodwill, along with any profit that comes along with it, to sustain or advance further endeavors.

    Meanwhile DICE has limited resources in terms of funding, manpower, and time to achieve this.

    I'm not saying EA doesn't have the funds for it. They clearly have more than enough. But the issue is not that much is allocated to the development of BF 2. They only have DICE working on it now and they are not staffed that much as earlier in the devs cycle.

    It definitely wouldn't strain them if EA was heavily invested in this project as they were in the beginning before the outcry against p2w and loot boxes and all the negative publicity that came along with it. But they are not anymore.

    Let me clarify I am not saying they cannot or do not have to capacity to add Hero Blast as a new mode. I am mean that there would be more resources available in eliminating loose ends.

    It would be fine if the target system remained, nothing catastrophic would happen. It's just more could be done with less.

    They would be better off cutting hero showdown, which I hear is dead anyway. I haven't tried it in months, I can't stand how it stops waiting for another player between rounds.

    I love Hero Showdown, but it’s whole design concept is to be played by a pair of friends, against a pair of friends. I’ve had success with a random... and also not. Win or lose, it’s better with a friend. We play it a lot.

    All I hear people say is it is empty. The concept was good, just bad execution.

    Peak gaming hours there’s no problem. Early hours in the morning on weekdays... sure. Evenings and weekends, there’s always players. All praise to the Xbox Virginia servers.

    The times I tried it were 5 min waiting for 1 player just to start the game, a minute to play round 1, someone crashes/ quits, 10 - 15 min waiting for 1 player, a minute for round 2, someone crashes quits, 15 minutes to find a player...

    I just couldn't do it, I want to play the game, not stare at a loading screen.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    Ben himself has addressed two of your points previously. I’ll summarize because I’m not going to spend the time hunting then down.
    1. It is, according to him, more complex to port over maps from 2015 than one might think.
    2. Money is not an issue. They are not trying to capitalize on new content.
    That second point means that any shortage in resources is one of manpower and time. The good news is, like I said above, is that all the real work to bring Hero Blast into the game is already done. We have Blast, and we have heroes. Adding it as a new mode isn’t going to put a strain this multi million dollar company like you are suggesting.
    That's what I'm saying in regards to point 1.

    Point 2. They are trying to capitalize on new content. They are trying to establish goodwill, along with any profit that comes along with it, to sustain or advance further endeavors.

    Meanwhile DICE has limited resources in terms of funding, manpower, and time to achieve this.

    I'm not saying EA doesn't have the funds for it. They clearly have more than enough. But the issue is not that much is allocated to the development of BF 2. They only have DICE working on it now and they are not staffed that much as earlier in the devs cycle.

    It definitely wouldn't strain them if EA was heavily invested in this project as they were in the beginning before the outcry against p2w and loot boxes and all the negative publicity that came along with it. But they are not anymore.

    Let me clarify I am not saying they cannot or do not have to capacity to add Hero Blast as a new mode. I am mean that there would be more resources available in eliminating loose ends.

    It would be fine if the target system remained, nothing catastrophic would happen. It's just more could be done with less.

    They would be better off cutting hero showdown, which I hear is dead anyway. I haven't tried it in months, I can't stand how it stops waiting for another player between rounds.

    I love Hero Showdown, but it’s whole design concept is to be played by a pair of friends, against a pair of friends. I’ve had success with a random... and also not. Win or lose, it’s better with a friend. We play it a lot.

    All I hear people say is it is empty. The concept was good, just bad execution.

    Peak gaming hours there’s no problem. Early hours in the morning on weekdays... sure. Evenings and weekends, there’s always players. All praise to the Xbox Virginia servers.

    The times I tried it were 5 min waiting for 1 player just to start the game, a minute to play round 1, someone crashes/ quits, 10 - 15 min waiting for 1 player, a minute for round 2, someone crashes quits, 15 minutes to find a player...

    I just couldn't do it, I want to play the game, not stare at a loading screen.

    I’ll suggest that you never wait more than 30-60 seconds in any lobby waiting for players. And particularly with HS, if you’re playing with a friend, never wait more than 30. It tries to match groups with groups and if you find one you’ll have a much better experience than two randoms.
  • bfloo
    13709 posts Member
    bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    Ben himself has addressed two of your points previously. I’ll summarize because I’m not going to spend the time hunting then down.
    1. It is, according to him, more complex to port over maps from 2015 than one might think.
    2. Money is not an issue. They are not trying to capitalize on new content.
    That second point means that any shortage in resources is one of manpower and time. The good news is, like I said above, is that all the real work to bring Hero Blast into the game is already done. We have Blast, and we have heroes. Adding it as a new mode isn’t going to put a strain this multi million dollar company like you are suggesting.
    That's what I'm saying in regards to point 1.

    Point 2. They are trying to capitalize on new content. They are trying to establish goodwill, along with any profit that comes along with it, to sustain or advance further endeavors.

    Meanwhile DICE has limited resources in terms of funding, manpower, and time to achieve this.

    I'm not saying EA doesn't have the funds for it. They clearly have more than enough. But the issue is not that much is allocated to the development of BF 2. They only have DICE working on it now and they are not staffed that much as earlier in the devs cycle.

    It definitely wouldn't strain them if EA was heavily invested in this project as they were in the beginning before the outcry against p2w and loot boxes and all the negative publicity that came along with it. But they are not anymore.

    Let me clarify I am not saying they cannot or do not have to capacity to add Hero Blast as a new mode. I am mean that there would be more resources available in eliminating loose ends.

    It would be fine if the target system remained, nothing catastrophic would happen. It's just more could be done with less.

    They would be better off cutting hero showdown, which I hear is dead anyway. I haven't tried it in months, I can't stand how it stops waiting for another player between rounds.

    I love Hero Showdown, but it’s whole design concept is to be played by a pair of friends, against a pair of friends. I’ve had success with a random... and also not. Win or lose, it’s better with a friend. We play it a lot.

    All I hear people say is it is empty. The concept was good, just bad execution.

    Peak gaming hours there’s no problem. Early hours in the morning on weekdays... sure. Evenings and weekends, there’s always players. All praise to the Xbox Virginia servers.

    The times I tried it were 5 min waiting for 1 player just to start the game, a minute to play round 1, someone crashes/ quits, 10 - 15 min waiting for 1 player, a minute for round 2, someone crashes quits, 15 minutes to find a player...

    I just couldn't do it, I want to play the game, not stare at a loading screen.

    I’ll suggest that you never wait more than 30-60 seconds in any lobby waiting for players. And particularly with HS, if you’re playing with a friend, never wait more than 30. It tries to match groups with groups and if you find one you’ll have a much better experience than two randoms.

    I rarely party up in this game. I find parties get too much of an advantage to the point the ai is more of a challenge and I get bored immediately
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • Billkwando
    1145 posts Member
    edited January 12
    zombie edit
    Post edited by Billkwando on
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sort of an atypical/joke song, all their other songs are way better)

    Gamertag: Billkwando
    Find me circling, and crashing, in Starfighter Assault.
  • Darth_Vapor3
    2608 posts Member
    edited January 12
    bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    Ben himself has addressed two of your points previously. I’ll summarize because I’m not going to spend the time hunting then down.
    1. It is, according to him, more complex to port over maps from 2015 than one might think.
    2. Money is not an issue. They are not trying to capitalize on new content.
    That second point means that any shortage in resources is one of manpower and time. The good news is, like I said above, is that all the real work to bring Hero Blast into the game is already done. We have Blast, and we have heroes. Adding it as a new mode isn’t going to put a strain this multi million dollar company like you are suggesting.
    That's what I'm saying in regards to point 1.

    Point 2. They are trying to capitalize on new content. They are trying to establish goodwill, along with any profit that comes along with it, to sustain or advance further endeavors.

    Meanwhile DICE has limited resources in terms of funding, manpower, and time to achieve this.

    I'm not saying EA doesn't have the funds for it. They clearly have more than enough. But the issue is not that much is allocated to the development of BF 2. They only have DICE working on it now and they are not staffed that much as earlier in the devs cycle.

    It definitely wouldn't strain them if EA was heavily invested in this project as they were in the beginning before the outcry against p2w and loot boxes and all the negative publicity that came along with it. But they are not anymore.

    Let me clarify I am not saying they cannot or do not have to capacity to add Hero Blast as a new mode. I am mean that there would be more resources available in eliminating loose ends.

    It would be fine if the target system remained, nothing catastrophic would happen. It's just more could be done with less.

    They would be better off cutting hero showdown, which I hear is dead anyway. I haven't tried it in months, I can't stand how it stops waiting for another player between rounds.

    I love Hero Showdown, but it’s whole design concept is to be played by a pair of friends, against a pair of friends. I’ve had success with a random... and also not. Win or lose, it’s better with a friend. We play it a lot.

    All I hear people say is it is empty. The concept was good, just bad execution.

    Peak gaming hours there’s no problem. Early hours in the morning on weekdays... sure. Evenings and weekends, there’s always players. All praise to the Xbox Virginia servers.

    The times I tried it were 5 min waiting for 1 player just to start the game, a minute to play round 1, someone crashes/ quits, 10 - 15 min waiting for 1 player, a minute for round 2, someone crashes quits, 15 minutes to find a player...

    I just couldn't do it, I want to play the game, not stare at a loading screen.

    I’ll suggest that you never wait more than 30-60 seconds in any lobby waiting for players. And particularly with HS, if you’re playing with a friend, never wait more than 30. It tries to match groups with groups and if you find one you’ll have a much better experience than two randoms.

    I rarely party up in this game. I find parties get too much of an advantage to the point the ai is more of a challenge and I get bored immediately
    Well until last month I only had one friend that I played with. I mean, it seemed like HS was designed for just us! Now we have a third. That’s the extent of my partying up.
  • Billkwando wrote: »
    You are like a broken record. I don't care about OG BF2. The irony here is you talking about having something substantial to write when all you've been doing is repeating yourself and remaking the same points, as if they're suddenly going to sound better.
    You are just mad. You can conduct yourself with class instead of trying attack me rather than my argument.

    Again I am not here to sell you anything. That has already been done by the rest of the community since the devs are going to have an event to test it out.

    It seems you don't understand the concept of reiteration either.

    You don't know about OG BF 2. You are acting so hostile over something so trivial as a video game.

    What am I mad about?
    I notice you like to play as Boba Fett which would make sense you want to keep such a skill less mode.

    Do you really call this conducting yourself with class, and attacking the argument rather than the individual? I'm not even sure who that crack was meant for, but it was definitely below the belt, if your plan is to make a stand on civility and reasoning. You can put the opera glasses down now, lol.

    As far as I'm concerned, this whole detour into business justifications for why DICE should do this or that, is completely off topic, and irrelevant to the points I made prior to your derailment. If I'm annoyed, that's why. As far as hostility, if that's what you consider hostile, you're either unaccustomed to forums, or are playing the victim to try to make me look like the villain of the piece.

    I had planned to apologize, like Azor did, because, truth be told, I too am very tired. However, I don't think I was being that unreasonable. Yes, I know they're planning a TDM event. No I haven't played the OG BF2 or watched any videos, but I see that as irrelevant because I'm not opposed to whatever it is. The more modes the better. If I've misunderstood any of your points, it's because I don't care about them. I don't mean that in a mean way. I mean that they have nothing to do with the point I was making.

    You are entitled to your opinions and to post in the thread. I'm not saying "It's MY thread, get out". It just seems to me that you you came in with the intention of pooping on my thread, and you're just throwing every monkey wrench you can to do so.



    wordswordswords
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sort of an atypical/joke song, all their other songs are way better)

    Gamertag: Billkwando
    Find me circling, and crashing, in Starfighter Assault.
  • Billkwando wrote: »
    What am I mad about?

    Do you really call this conducting yourself with class, and attacking the argument rather than the individual? I'm not even sure who that crack was meant for, but it was definitely below the belt, if your plan is to make a stand on civility and reasoning. You can put the opera glasses down now, lol.

    As far as I'm concerned, this whole detour into business justifications for why DICE should do this or that, is completely off topic, and irrelevant to the points I made prior to your derailment. If I'm annoyed, that's why. As far as hostility, if that's what you consider hostile, you're either unaccustomed to forums, or are playing the victim to try to make me look like the villain of the piece.

    I had planned to apologize, like Azor did, because, truth be told, I too am very tired. However, I don't think I was being that unreasonable. Yes, I know they're planning a TDM event. No I haven't played the OG BF2 or watched any videos, but I see that as irrelevant because I'm not opposed to whatever it is. The more modes the better. If I've misunderstood any of your points, it's because I don't care about them. I don't mean that in a mean way. I mean that they have nothing to do with the point I was making.

    You are entitled to your opinions and to post in the thread. I'm not saying "It's MY thread, get out". It just seems to me that you you came in with the intention of pooping on my thread, and you're just throwing every monkey wrench you can to do so.



    wordswordswords
    There is no intention to 'poop' on your thread. I merely stated my opinion and debated with those who disagreed.

    The target system is a skill less mode imo. That's not insulting anyone it's just stating opinion.

    It is apparent you cannot handle opposition. You could conduct yourself better, rather than be mad about people opposing your opinion.
    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • Billkwando
    1145 posts Member
    edited January 12
    zombie edit
    Post edited by Billkwando on
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sort of an atypical/joke song, all their other songs are way better)

    Gamertag: Billkwando
    Find me circling, and crashing, in Starfighter Assault.
  • Billkwando wrote: »
    LOL I feel like you were mostly perpendicular to my opinion. I was just thinking about it and yeah, perhaps there wasn't any intended poopery. Some folks just like to debate. I get it. However, you have to be aware that some of us have elevated this particular bit of Whack a Mole (as I affectionately like to describe hero play, in reference to its relative complexity. Again, it's no Street Fighter II) to an "art". Whack a Mole art it may be, but still.

    Are you seriously trying to tell me that the context in which you used the term "skill less" wasn't intended to be a diss? Now you are trying to sell me something, and I'm not buying it. :p

    Are you sure your intention wasn't just to troll, maybe a little? If no, for reals, then my apologies. And if you did, then yeah you got a little troll juice on me, so congrats hahaha.

    Either way, no hard feelings. I too wish you the best of weekends.

    One more thing. Assuming you are being sincere (and I don't mean to be "Hey look at me" guy) objectively, can you really say this took no skill?



    I've pushed one guy off already, and I knew exactly what I need to do to survive and win. I can see Maul is playing it safe, so I need to draw him out if I'm going to get the push with 3 other guys on me. I want them to think they've got me, so the goal was to make them overconfident. Yeah, Maul should've thrown me, but maybe he was in cooldown, or maybe he thought there was no way I was getting to him, I dunno.

    My point is that there would be no way for a moment quit like this to happen in TDM. If it was TDM, I could've just run the other way and let them chase me til I could push them off. Maul would have no incentive to hang back like that, and I would have had no incentive to go in after him. With this in mind, it is my personal opinion that TDM (while I still welcome it), is far more of a "skill less" mode than HvV. It's just brute choppity chop. It's because of that that people made up self imposed modes like "President" to break the monotony of simple TDM.

    I'm not saying it's rocket science, but there is skill to it if you're doing it right.

    You are labeling people who disagree with you as trolls. That's sad.

    I don't find that impressive. It's far easier to stall with the target system. The target system just drags out games. Time is valuable.

    It definitely takes more skill to kill than it is to evade as the target. Especially for characters like Boba Fett, Skywalker, and Maul.

    There is inherent asymmetrical balancing that is built into the target system as Boba Fett can substantially evade as the target better than anyone else. Skywalker and Maul can literally run around the map avoiding people wasting everyone's time.



    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • Billkwando wrote: »
    LOL I feel like you were mostly perpendicular to my opinion. I was just thinking about it and yeah, perhaps there wasn't any intended poopery. Some folks just like to debate. I get it. However, you have to be aware that some of us have elevated this particular bit of Whack a Mole (as I affectionately like to describe hero play, in reference to its relative complexity. Again, it's no Street Fighter II) to an "art". Whack a Mole art it may be, but still.

    Are you seriously trying to tell me that the context in which you used the term "skill less" wasn't intended to be a diss? Now you are trying to sell me something, and I'm not buying it. :p

    Are you sure your intention wasn't just to troll, maybe a little? If no, for reals, then my apologies. And if you did, then yeah you got a little troll juice on me, so congrats hahaha.

    Either way, no hard feelings. I too wish you the best of weekends.

    One more thing. Assuming you are being sincere (and I don't mean to be "Hey look at me" guy) objectively, can you really say this took no skill?



    I've pushed one guy off already, and I knew exactly what I need to do to survive and win. I can see Maul is playing it safe, so I need to draw him out if I'm going to get the push with 3 other guys on me. I want them to think they've got me, so the goal was to make them overconfident. Yeah, Maul should've thrown me, but maybe he was in cooldown, or maybe he thought there was no way I was getting to him, I dunno.

    My point is that there would be no way for a moment quit like this to happen in TDM. If it was TDM, I could've just run the other way and let them chase me til I could push them off. Maul would have no incentive to hang back like that, and I would have had no incentive to go in after him. With this in mind, it is my personal opinion that TDM (while I still welcome it), is far more of a "skill less" mode than HvV. It's just brute choppity chop. It's because of that that people made up self imposed modes like "President" to break the monotony of simple TDM.

    I'm not saying it's rocket science, but there is skill to it if you're doing it right.

    You are labeling people who disagree with you as trolls. That's sad.

    No I was asking you if you were trolling, sincerely. I personally enjoy longer games.
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sort of an atypical/joke song, all their other songs are way better)

    Gamertag: Billkwando
    Find me circling, and crashing, in Starfighter Assault.
  • Billkwando wrote: »

    No I was asking you if you were trolling, sincerely. I personally enjoy longer games.
    Your title even includes trolls. Why would you say your solution would please everyone but trolls. That is clearly labeling anyone that wouldn't be pleased as a troll.

    You may enjoy longer games, but majority of people have things to do with their time.

    The target system literally promotes stalling.
    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • Billkwando
    1145 posts Member
    edited January 12
    edited post, back from the bermuda triangle - deleted
    Post edited by Billkwando on
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sort of an atypical/joke song, all their other songs are way better)

    Gamertag: Billkwando
    Find me circling, and crashing, in Starfighter Assault.
  • Already addressed this
    hnytpwosbe30.png
    ∆^∆
  • If they do add a new hero mode, I'd prefer something objective based to plain old team deathmatch.

    But I won't gripe if that's what they add, a lot of people seem to think that's a good idea.

    But Hero Extraction! That would be a dream.

    They've gone out of their way to emphasize heroes in this game, and I know there are a lot of people who despise them, but I think they only serve their goals further by adding more small hero modes.

  • Billkwando wrote: »

    No I was asking you if you were trolling, sincerely. I personally enjoy longer games.
    Your title even includes trolls. Why would you say your solution would please everyone but trolls. That is clearly labeling anyone that wouldn't be pleased as a troll.

    I was very clear about what I meant.



    AzorAhai wrote: »
    If they do add a new hero mode, I'd prefer something objective based to plain old team deathmatch.

    But I won't gripe if that's what they add, a lot of people seem to think that's a good idea.

    But Hero Extraction! That would be a dream.

    They've gone out of their way to emphasize heroes in this game, and I know there are a lot of people who despise them, but I think they only serve their goals further by adding more small hero modes.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a king of the hill mode, where the hill moves. That way people could have their clusterbattle but would still have to move around the map. Or maybe a jetpack cargo-type mode, but with heroes, where you have to deliver a certain number of chickens to Maz's castle. :D
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sort of an atypical/joke song, all their other songs are way better)

    Gamertag: Billkwando
    Find me circling, and crashing, in Starfighter Assault.
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