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Forest of Endor

Community Transmission - Lightsaber Combat

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  • To make things more strategic, there can be some variation in lightsaber attack values (related to damage) across heroes:

    If the hero has a lower swing stamina (Vader), then his strikes on a blocking opponent should lower their stamina accordingly; meaning to say, a hero's lower swing stamina should be offset by higher damage per strike and perhaps take twice as much stamina off the blocking opponent.

    There can also be an inclusion of block breaks - perhaps three consecutive strikes on a blocking opponent would break the block independent of block stamina remaining.

    May the Force be with you.
  • brienj
    680 posts Member
    edited April 10
    Exen44 wrote: »
    Exen44 wrote: »
    Stop complaining about Anakin. Seriously. The people who complain about Anakin are the same people who play blaster heroes like Lando who has a ridiculous stun range, roll back out of your swing and tank your health by shooting you point blank in the face until you go from 700 HP to 50 HP. But that's COMPLETELY fine.

    Anakin isn't that OP. The only reason you want to nerf him is because he threatens your style of gameplay. AKA, blaster heroes only in HvV, roll back, spam stun and shoot. But if you know what you're doing, you can easily kill Anakin with heroes like Grievous, Vader, Kylo, Dooku -- even Palpatine if you're lucky. I say this from experience. So when you say he's 'OP', you mean he's OP against blaster heroes. Which isn't even a problem. Because there needs to be a balancing force that deals with people like that.

    Also, he's the CHOSEN ONE. As in, a being with untapped potential until he got nerfed into Vader on Mustafar when he got all his limbs severed and burned alive. He's supposed to be powerful. But he's far from unkillable.

    TL;DR, he doesn't need nerfing, and if anything heroes like Lando's stun do.

    The End.

    Although i do agree with what you said about lando this isnt true i'm a lightsaber main. Been playing since day 1 and i know the mechanics well.

    This is where you misunderstand. Yes he can be killed. This does not mean balance.

    The problem is with his 360° AOE abilities. You cannot sucessfully block retribution intentionally because it has no animation time before the activation so when you engage anakin you cannot even lower your block to attack him because he can just press 1 button and end you. If you arent already dead to choking/ blaster fire then he will just pull you and passionate strike you without giving the victim a chance to dodge or block in between. This is completely unnaceptabe im so suprised devs overlooked this.

    Heroic might is another problem in itself because of the damage and radius. All an anakin player has to do os jump in the middle of an enemy team amd allow a couple people to shoot you then boom push 1 button, team destroyed. This one is a little better because a lot of people know not to attack during the animation now but theres always 1 or 2 who will get their entire team killed including villans.

    Simply because "he is the chosen one" or "he can be killed" is not a good enough argument.

    The same argument can be made for almost every hero and villain currently in the game. Almost all of them have some 'unfair' ability that absolutely paralyzes other heroes/villains. Most popular in this category being stuns. Phasma's stun, Iden's stun, Lando's stun -- none of these can really be blocked. With the exception of Iden, if you're lucky enough to be facing her little stun droid when it attacks you. But if the developers find no reason to nerf that, then there's no reason to nerf Anakin. As I said before, he's a balancing force in the game as things currently stand. Having an Anakin helps stop people from exploiting the living hell out of the stun mechanic, or people only playing blaster heroes because it's just easy.

    Yes, the retribution ability is OP. And it should be. If I'm not mistaken, it's a reference to a scene in the Clone Wars cartoon when Anakin literally makes the Dark Side and Light Side incarnates kneel at his feet. That's the kind of power Anakin can have, or could have had. I'm making this assumption because the animation from the Retribution ability is the same as what he does in the show. But, you can counter this ability quite simply most of the time with one simple key: play it smart. For example, always have your block up when Anakin is backing up from you. This is a overall good idea when fighting him, since he has a lot of long-ranged abilities. If your entire team has been chasing him and hitting him and his team mates, then it's safe to assume that the retribution is coming. So you just have to be cautious. This is also true for if you've been fighting Anakin for an extended period of time in a 1v1. He'll eventually have it. You just have to keep an eye out for it. It's not hard. There will be times when he catches you off-guard, but it's honestly not much different to a blaster hero stun. They do the 'blaster fire while frozen' like people do with 'blaster fire while Anakin chokes'. Except the difference is, you actually have a chance to get out of it.

    Now, the Heroic Might ability. I don't know if you're aware, but they've already nerfed it quite heavily. And they didn't do it well. They capped the range much lower, and made a damage cap so you can't be one-shot. What they should have done was make it so the damage you deal is based on range. So if someone is at the very outer layer of your range, they take less damage compared to someone who's swinging at you in your face. Alas, they didn't do this. So this is what we have. Heroic Might is incredibly easy to avoid. As I said, it's about playing it smart, and being cautious. Keep your block up, assume he's always ready to dish it out. And don't charge in like an **** and just swing. To counter Anakin, you can't just spam damage abilities. That's what makes him great. Also, the whole 'all he has to do is jump in the middle of an enemy team and allow people to shoot him then boom push 1 button, team destroyed'. This is not true for two reasons. One, it's been nerfed so he can't wipe out a team that easily. Two, you have to be incredibly stupid if you see him charging up the ability and you still keep shooting/swinging. But you already pointed this out. And it can be frustrating when team mates get you killed. But that's their fault, not Anakin's mechanics.

    Oh, and Massive Strikes. A tricky one, I'll grant you. What you do is, dodge backwards, be cautious. Or if you see him trying to close the distance, then assume he's about to do it. I like to dodge behind him. If timed right, his strike goes past him and he's vulnerable from the back.

    TL;DR, my point is that there is currently no reason to nerf Anakin because the only 'overpowered' thing he has left is retribution, which is actually less OP then a regular blaster hero stun because you can avoid and block it.



    This is a video game, it is supposed to be balanced between both sides. Just because the light side wins in the movies, doesn't mean they should win in the game. Using examples from the movies or cartoons to justify adding something OP to the game is not right, and it is not fair or balanced.
    Dachivale wrote: »
    I have found in the many games playing in HvV, the main game mode for myself that the new Stamina system is highly flawed.

    The reason I say this is for the reason that now you cannot block or fight against blasters if they use their spacing right. Especially characters like Phasma (with stun-droid), Iden Versio and Lando with their stuns are a big problem.

    Alongside the blasters now Palpatine is also a big problem, again due to the new stamina update. The reason why Palpatine is a problem is 2 fold. If you attack him and he keeps dodging you run out of stamina and are unable to block. If you keep blocking and trying to get closer you wil run out of stamina and are unable to attack.

    I wished they would do stamina for attack and defense separate. I believe this was implemented before if not mistaken. Also I liked the ring in the middle better than how it is now. At the bottom, where you have to look away from what you are doing to check it in a way. It's not impossible to keep track of it, but it's a bit more difficult imo then when it was in the middle with the circle system.

    Also there is a really big difference between stamina from one character to another, Grievous for example has become somewhat unplayable due to his lack of stamina. Yes he still can be alright if you are a great Grievous player, but he can block almost nothing and if you use the damage increasing Star card you are pretty much hampering your options of attack, due to his already really lacking stamina pool.

    Also what others already have noted I believe, is that now it's more of a gang-up style of game. You cannot win vs 2 player when you are alone. Wel not against skilled players at least. I have won many games vs multiple opponents, but if they throw in a Palp or blaster in the mix I can honestly say it becomes almost impossible with the current system.

    I like that they did something about the stagger, cause that was just horrid imo. But I don't think they really improved the system as a whole.

    My personal opinion of course. People don't have to agree, but I have played HvV quite extensively over the previous few days to come to these conclusions. Also I would like to note that I do not claim to be the best player or the best Saber user. I have won many games vs multiple opponents though.. Kylo main and Anakin/Luke.. ^^

    Exactly, the game requires even less "skill" than before. You used to be able to hold off a 2 v 1 with someone like Dooku, or a 3 v 1 or 4 v 1 with Vader, by outplaying your opponents. Now it doesn't matter how much you outplay your opponents, you are eventually going to be killed before any help from your teammates arrive. If you have a team that sticks together and gang attacks, you will win, no matter what, it doesn't matter how good or bad the other team players are. The LS team has a huge stamina advantage as well, so they will always win if they employ gang attacking tactics. At least with the old system, if you were a good player, you could outlast the spamming, now you can't, no matter how hard you try. I get a good chuckle reading all the people who say it takes more skill now, it's quite the opposite, it takes almost zero skill now. Now more than ever, I have to play with friends that are smart enough to know that you have to employ gang attacking tactics to win, because if I play solo, the steamrolls are even worse if my teammates are dumb. The steamrolls are also going to be amplified even more once the target system is removed, and teams no longer have to wait to see who the next target is to go attack, it will just be an endless steamroll someone 4 v 1, rinse and repeat, with zero breaks. The old system wasn't perfect, but it at least gave teams a chance if they had even two good player on the team.
    I thought heroes are supposed to be able to defend themselves? Not being able to block right after being tossed to the ground or anything seems quite dumb, especially with the amount of crowd control abilities in the game now. First let's get pushed by Luke then have Anakin pull you in, use Heroic Might and Passionate Strike, after that Obi-Wan and Yoda come in with their push next, or we got Han and Chewie's moves too. All while I still can't block not even 1 of those because I'm "apparently" too busy laying on the ground. Might as well say I'm being one shotted the whole time, but not by Anakin (since that was fixed), but now by the entire team. Getting hit by 1 power pretty much means automatic death and it's ruining the entire experience for me

    This is yet another advantage the LS has over the DS. When you combine this with the almost unlimited stamina the LS team possesses, it certainly means doom for the DS every time if gang attacking tactics are employed, and you are entirely defenseless, not able to even dodge away or block, before you are dead. Yet another reason I laugh at those that say it takes more skill now to win in HvV.
  • I agree with brienj, I was able to withstand multiple opponents before but I have not been successful after the lightsaber combat update. But I feel like that this is what they wanted where if you're going up against 2 or more enemies, there is small to no chance of defeating both, regardless of skill level. And I do agree that even though Anakin got slightly nerfed, and will get a little bit more nerfed, the real issue now is the spamming LS force abilities, from all the knockdown abilities to the mind tricks makes it so hard to be mobile as DS, especially as slow Vader or non-blocking villians.
  • I tried the new stanima system in arcade, and the delay seems to only be a few seconds and not something bad that leaves you utterly defenseless.
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  • Sad_History
    137 posts Member
    edited April 10
    brienj wrote: »

    Exactly, the game requires even less "skill" than before. You used to be able to hold off a 2 v 1 with someone like Dooku, or a 3 v 1 or 4 v 1 with Vader, by outplaying your opponents. Now it doesn't matter how much you outplay your opponents, you are eventually going to be killed before any help from your teammates arrive.

    You didn't outplay your opponent. You spammed block and won because of passive play. In the movie passive defence didn't win lightsaber fights. Only aggressiveness. Luke defeated Vader that way. He was "spamming the attack button" as you would call it.

    The new system is much more realistic and Star Wars like. It has made HvV much more smooth and realistic. The only characters who tried to defeat two enemies by themself (Dooku and Maul) were killed in that fight. So should you do when engaging 2 vs 1.
  • brienj
    680 posts Member
    edited April 10
    brienj wrote: »

    Exactly, the game requires even less "skill" than before. You used to be able to hold off a 2 v 1 with someone like Dooku, or a 3 v 1 or 4 v 1 with Vader, by outplaying your opponents. Now it doesn't matter how much you outplay your opponents, you are eventually going to be killed before any help from your teammates arrive.

    You didn't outplay your opponent. You spammed block and won because of passive play. In the movie passive defence didn't win lightsaber fights. Only aggressiveness. Luke defeated Vader that way. He was "spamming the attack button" as you would call it.

    The new system is much more realistic and Star Wars like. It has made HvV much more smooth and realistic. The only characters who tried to defeat two enemies by themself (Dooku and Maul) were killed in that fight. So should you do when engaging 2 vs 1.

    No I didn't, I was able to dash effectively, block and then strike, now you can't block or strike, or you lose all defense. The stagger was also important to know when you effectively blocked, so you could counter attack, but they removed it, because it wasn't "fluent" enough. It's all a bunch of bollocks, and the new system just rewards R2 spamming in packs, that's all it does. That's what all the low skilled players wanted, and that's what they have now, and now their R2 spamming is being rewarded and they like to think they have skill now.

    You also are comparing this to a movie. Get real, it's a video game, and you should be able to defend yourself if you have more skill. You shouldn't lose just because the other people are able to R2 more than you can defend yourself. If you attack and get blocked, you should be able to be parried with a counter-attack, which they completely removed, so keep on thinking you have skill.
  • brienj wrote: »

    Exactly, the game requires even less "skill" than before. You used to be able to hold off a 2 v 1 with someone like Dooku, or a 3 v 1 or 4 v 1 with Vader, by outplaying your opponents. Now it doesn't matter how much you outplay your opponents, you are eventually going to be killed before any help from your teammates arrive.

    You didn't outplay your opponent. You spammed block and won because of passive play. In the movie passive defence didn't win lightsaber fights. Only aggressiveness. Luke defeated Vader that way. He was "spamming the attack button" as you would call it.

    The new system is much more realistic and Star Wars like. It has made HvV much more smooth and realistic. The only characters who tried to defeat two enemies by themself (Dooku and Maul) were killed in that fight. So should you do when engaging 2 vs 1.

    I agree with everything, but "The only characters who tried to defeat two enemies by themself (Dooku and Maul) were killed in that fight" - dude, they both knocked out 1 of 2 their oponents and then fighted 1 vs 1. And got killed due ridiculous lack of finishing moves choreography (with acceptable choreography of rest duel).
  • Ok, I know I am late to the party but I want to give my quick opinion on the new system.

    I am a player that just got into the game after barely touching it since release and just a couple of months back actually really got into online and pvp on Battlefront 2.Heroes vs Villains was my favorite mode and at first I suck really badly but over a couple of months I got better at least good enough to enjoy it and get actual wins against moderate to even some really good players. Fast forward to now when I finally was able to play the game again and I have to say the new system sucks. Its not that I suck. I know I do with this system but beyond that it feels like its all about spamming attacks now.

    I didnt know what was happening suddenly it seemed like I couldnt block attacks and everyone was killing me really fast so I googled the patch notes to see the combat changes and then I saw it. The block and stamina changes.WOW...
    what the hell happened? the game was fun and it was more tactical in duels.Now I cant defend myself against a group or even 2 people and 1 v 1 is just a race against the stamina mechanic. But its just spamming. If I spam attacks I will win because block makes you lose stamina too . I am not saying the old combat system didnt need some work but as it is now it ruins the experience for me its just ganking and spamming and if you are in close quaters like the Tattooine corridor map meh its just a race to see which group spams more first. Its not fun. Its like this update was made for little kids that dont want to learn the controls and just spam all buttons to win in a fighting game.

    Sadly while I was enjoying this game and the new mode and clone wars update was very welcome ( should had done it a LOT earlier) I don't know why companies keep ignoring the prequel content on video games like this one for so long but anyway this is a huuuge turn off and I think I will just stop playing the game and move on because lets be honest Heroes vs Villains and Galactic Assault was mainly the good parts of this game and you just kinda ruined one of them.
  • brienj wrote: »
    brienj wrote: »

    Exactly, the game requires even less "skill" than before. You used to be able to hold off a 2 v 1 with someone like Dooku, or a 3 v 1 or 4 v 1 with Vader, by outplaying your opponents. Now it doesn't matter how much you outplay your opponents, you are eventually going to be killed before any help from your teammates arrive.

    You didn't outplay your opponent. You spammed block and won because of passive play. In the movie passive defence didn't win lightsaber fights. Only aggressiveness. Luke defeated Vader that way. He was "spamming the attack button" as you would call it.

    The new system is much more realistic and Star Wars like. It has made HvV much more smooth and realistic. The only characters who tried to defeat two enemies by themself (Dooku and Maul) were killed in that fight. So should you do when engaging 2 vs 1.

    No I didn't, I was able to dash effectively, block and then strike, now you can't block or strike, or you lose all defense. The stagger was also important to know when you effectively blocked, so you could counter attack, but they removed it, because it wasn't "fluent" enough. It's all a bunch of bollocks, and the new system just rewards R2 spamming in packs, that's all it does. That's what all the low skilled players wanted, and that's what they have now, and now their R2 spamming is being rewarded and they like to think they have skill now.

    You also are comparing this to a movie. Get real, it's a video game, and you should be able to defend yourself if you have more skill. You shouldn't lose just because the other people are able to R2 more than you can defend yourself. If you attack and get blocked, you should be able to be parried with a counter-attack, which they completely removed, so keep on thinking you have skill.

    EXACTLY, the stagger punished bad play by making the attacking player think how to win that fight because if they attack they get staggered and then the blocker can use that opportunity to get in a hit or 2. nows its mindless Whack-a-hero/villain. with people mashing the Swing and hoping they kill you before their stamina runs out. there no tactical play anymore. they need to re implement that stagger when you attack a blocking player.
  • I agree on most of what is said. I am pretty decent at HvV, I would not claim to be the best or near the top players. Just as a heads up before people think I claim to be that good, I do not.

    The system is really lacking in what others said. People can just spamm attacks like kids that only know one button and keep mashing it till they kill you. It takes no skill to win with 2 or 3 people vs 1. I have had a few games where my team wasn't working as much together as the opponent and they just steamrolled us. Not to say they where good players, I don't think they where really all that skilled. I mean it's not hard to just spamm attack and use all your abilities on one player. Then when that player is killed move to the next to do the same thing.

    I used to be able to outplay people even if they where with 2, 3 or 4 player sometimes. Obviously not always, cause it depends on opponents skills also. If you play against a team full of good players or decent ones then it's less likely you can take on multiple players. Now even the worst players can just trash you with spamming attack in lightsaber battles.

    Still I can outplay sometimes the people that keep spamming attacks, but it is less likely to be able to really outplay them with tactics. Cause dodging, jumping, blocking, etc.. Using a bit of a rotation is less likely to win vs spamm attacks now than it was before.

    I have said this before and someone else also suggested it. I think attack and block needs to have separate stamina pools. Not that this wil solve the spamm attacking, but it makes you able to attack when you run out of defensive stamina or vice versa. Not make you stand there like a statue and unable to do anything, having to dodge or jump to regain it again.

    In a 1v1 ofcourse tactics wil win you the battle, but the problem is that in most cases you won't be in a 1v1 situation. It's 4 v 4 in HvV, the likeliness of them ganging up on a player is there. The problem also lies in the spawn system I feel though. It's difficult to get back in the game as a team when someone dies and they get spawned on opposite ends of the map. This becomes really apparent on the larger maps. Cloud City for example can be a real problem.

    Maybe they should implement the same spawn system as in the other modes. Though I feel they should let you be able to spawn even on someone that is in battle. Cause a lot of times I cannot spawn on anyone in GA, because they are in a fight or they are using an ability. Cannot spawn on some units either (Aerial, At-ST and other ground vehicles), making it even less likely to be able to spawn on a player (closer to the battle).

    I feel in GA you also get spawned way to far away from the battle sometimes. In games like GA not being in the battle makes it harder to really win the mode and be at the top spots. I am not great at GA I would add, but it's harder due to the spawn issues imo also.
  • Dachivale wrote: »
    I agree on most of what is said. I am pretty decent at HvV, I would not claim to be the best or near the top players. Just as a heads up before people think I claim to be that good, I do not.

    The system is really lacking in what others said. People can just spamm attacks like kids that only know one button and keep mashing it till they kill you. It takes no skill to win with 2 or 3 people vs 1. I have had a few games where my team wasn't working as much together as the opponent and they just steamrolled us. Not to say they where good players, I don't think they where really all that skilled. I mean it's not hard to just spamm attack and use all your abilities on one player. Then when that player is killed move to the next to do the same thing.

    I used to be able to outplay people even if they where with 2, 3 or 4 player sometimes. Obviously not always, cause it depends on opponents skills also. If you play against a team full of good players or decent ones then it's less likely you can take on multiple players. Now even the worst players can just trash you with spamming attack in lightsaber battles.

    Still I can outplay sometimes the people that keep spamming attacks, but it is less likely to be able to really outplay them with tactics. Cause dodging, jumping, blocking, etc.. Using a bit of a rotation is less likely to win vs spamm attacks now than it was before.

    I have said this before and someone else also suggested it. I think attack and block needs to have separate stamina pools. Not that this wil solve the spamm attacking, but it makes you able to attack when you run out of defensive stamina or vice versa. Not make you stand there like a statue and unable to do anything, having to dodge or jump to regain it again.

    In a 1v1 ofcourse tactics wil win you the battle, but the problem is that in most cases you won't be in a 1v1 situation. It's 4 v 4 in HvV, the likeliness of them ganging up on a player is there. The problem also lies in the spawn system I feel though. It's difficult to get back in the game as a team when someone dies and they get spawned on opposite ends of the map. This becomes really apparent on the larger maps. Cloud City for example can be a real problem.

    Maybe they should implement the same spawn system as in the other modes. Though I feel they should let you be able to spawn even on someone that is in battle. Cause a lot of times I cannot spawn on anyone in GA, because they are in a fight or they are using an ability. Cannot spawn on some units either (Aerial, At-ST and other ground vehicles), making it even less likely to be able to spawn on a player (closer to the battle).

    I feel in GA you also get spawned way to far away from the battle sometimes. In games like GA not being in the battle makes it harder to really win the mode and be at the top spots. I am not great at GA I would add, but it's harder due to the spawn issues imo also.

    I have to say the spawn p[roblem is a big one with how the combat has been reworked , in many situations where 1 team is just grouping up against the target once you die it becomes just a race to just get to where they are and by the time you get there your teammates are dead and you become the target and by the time my team gets to where I am , I am dead with the old system even if it was 4v1 one could at least hold out until the team arrived to help.
  • Now its kinda feels likes theres more running than fighting and 4v1 than anything else.
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