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The Last Jedi Opinions.

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Who here likes the movie? Who here doesn't like it? Who thinks it's the best? Who thinks it's the worst? Please keep it civil. Enough flamewars have been had over this already.
Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
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  • Cadoth
    784 posts Member
    It was the only star wars movie ever that I found to be boring BUT I didn’t hate it, there were actually a few interesting parts (except for the low-key sexist propaganda)
  • Yeah. It's certainly not my favorite. Some parts of it I find infuriating, but overall it's just a disappointing mess.
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • It’s right up there, top three. ESB and ANH take the top spots, but then I’d have to say TLJ. It took some chances and went in another direction than perhaps most of us were expecting, but as it turns out that was the right call. There are some scenes I didn’t like (the humour bits that have been plaguing the Disney productions so far), but there are also some moments I’d consider the best in the entire saga. Yoda’s ”We are what they grow beyond” line is one example. Luke’s death is another. Brilliance.
  • bfloo
    14086 posts Member
    Another tlj discussion

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    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

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  • Somewhere in the top 5
    Army or not, you must realize....you are doomed.
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  • It's just like what Force Awakens is: a blatant remake of Empire Strikes Back with a more "politically correct" cast and everything being just different enough to tell that it's new without taking the risk of actually being creative with their writing.
  • Love how Luke died from being "tired" and how crotchety he was. Leia flying through the air and the space horses.
  • mastery0ta wrote: »
    Love how Luke died from being "tired" and how crotchety he was. Leia flying through the air

    Your interpretation of those two scenes differ from mine for sure. Yeah, he was probably exhausted, he transported a physical version of himself to a planet lightyears away, where he not only communicated with his sister, but also went to face his grandson, allowing the last rebels to escape. The ultimate jedi force power by the ultimate jedi master, echoing one of the first lessons Yoda taught him in ESB, ”A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.” And yeah, that drained him, anything else would’ve looked absolutely ridiculous imo, but to me he actually ”let go”, rather than die from being tired as you put it. Just as Obi-Wan did. He sat up straight, saw the twin sun rising, as opposed to setting in ANH, and let go. To me the scene was brilliant.

    The Leia scene, yeah I can see why some didn’t like it. I didn’t mind it however - and I never saw it as flying really. Rather she pulled herself towards the airlock, in the same manner Vader pulled Han’s pistol in ESB. But, who knows... Short scene, with no other significance than to once again show Leia using the force.
    mastery0ta wrote: »
    and the space horses.

    But you are fine with the space kangaroos atleast? :)

    Tauntaun1.jpg

    Tauntauns will always be near to my heart no worries
  • N_AM10
    35 posts Member
    Imo, this was the worst one yet. They ruined Snoke by killing him off when we barely know anything about him. All we know about him is his name is Snoke and he seduced Ben Solo to the darkside. The same problem with Rey that was in the force awakens. She's just proving to be more of a Mary Sue. Had none to little lightsaber combat training but is somehow able to beat Snoke's guards, who just like Palpatine's Royal Guard, are supposed to be very strong and not defeated easily. And no, I don't count randomly swinging a lightsaber at a rock to be training. Then there's another problem, Rose. Enough said for that. Then there's ANOTHER one. Admiral Holdo. She has a plan to save the resistance, but she didn't tell her crew which was a very dumb move. Maybe if she told everyone, most of the escape vessels would've been saved. They should've kept in that one deleted scene that shows how selfish Phasma is. It also shows her troops reaction to how she lowered the shields
  • VaderFist501st
    236 posts Member
    edited March 28
    I would rank it last. It had a few cool scenes, I’ll give it that. Luke’s portrayal in the film was shameful IMO

    How did we never get a reunion between Luke Leia and Han after all these years!? What a missed opportunity
  • N_AM10 wrote: »
    Imo, this was the worst one yet. They ruined Snoke by killing him off when we barely know anything about him. All we know about him is his name is Snoke and he seduced Ben Solo to the darkside. The same problem with Rey that was in the force awakens. She's just proving to be more of a Mary Sue. Had none to little lightsaber combat training but is somehow able to beat Snoke's guards, who just like Palpatine's Royal Guard, are supposed to be very strong and not defeated easily. And no, I don't count randomly swinging a lightsaber at a rock to be training.

    Snoke was never intended to be anything more than a starting block for Kylo Ren... How much more did we know about the Emperor before he arrived at the DS in RotJ? All we knew was that he was the Emperor and that Darth Vader was his apprentice. He needed to die in order for Kylo Ren to rise as the Supreme Leader of the FO and the story wouldn’t have gained anything from learning more about him.

    And what exactly is Rey doing in TLJ that’d qualify her as a Mary Sue-character? They are supposed to be infallible. If Rey was a Mary Sue, then she would’ve been the one slaying Snoke! If Rey was a Mary Sue, she would’ve carried the throne room fight against the guards, when in fact it was Kylo Ren who did that, always fighting multiple enemies at a time. If Rey was a Mary Sue, she would’ve convinced Luke to join the Resistance and been able to turn Ben Solo. And yeah, she could fight. So what? She never started out as someone who couldn’t fight. She was a fighter, even back on Jakku. We can see that in TFA. She is strong, because the force needs her to be strong. There’s nothing wrong with that...

    Rose and Holdo too huh? Well... whatever. Opinions, opinions...
  • N_AM10
    35 posts Member
    edited April 20
    N_AM10 wrote: »
    Imo, this was the worst one yet. They ruined Snoke by killing him off when we barely know anything about him. All we know about him is his name is Snoke and he seduced Ben Solo to the darkside. The same problem with Rey that was in the force awakens. She's just proving to be more of a Mary Sue. Had none to little lightsaber combat training but is somehow able to beat Snoke's guards, who just like Palpatine's Royal Guard, are supposed to be very strong and not defeated easily. And no, I don't count randomly swinging a lightsaber at a rock to be training.

    Snoke was never intended to be anything more than a starting block for Kylo Ren... How much more did we know about the Emperor before he arrived at the DS in RotJ? All we knew was that he was the Emperor and that Darth Vader was his apprentice. He needed to die in order for Kylo Ren to rise as the Supreme Leader of the FO and the story wouldn’t have gained anything from learning more about him.

    And what exactly is Rey doing in TLJ that’d qualify her as a Mary Sue-character? They are supposed to be infallible. If Rey was a Mary Sue, then she would’ve been the one slaying Snoke! If Rey was a Mary Sue, she would’ve carried the throne room fight against the guards, when in fact it was Kylo Ren who did that, always fighting multiple enemies at a time. If Rey was a Mary Sue, she would’ve convinced Luke to join the Resistance and been able to turn Ben Solo. And yeah, she could fight. So what? She never started out as someone who couldn’t fight. She was a fighter, even back on Jakku. We can see that in TFA. She is strong, because the force needs her to be strong. There’s nothing wrong with that...

    Rose and Holdo too huh? Well... whatever. Opinions, opinions...

    You said it yourself, the reason Rey didn't kill Snoke was for Kylo to rise to that role. You kinda contradicted yourself. A Mary Sue is an OP character though, so I don't see what you mean by "If she was a Mary Sue, she would've convinced Luke to join the Resistance and turn Ben Solo". And fighting against scavengers doesn't prepare you for a fight against the Supreme Leader's guards. She's even doing better than Anakin and Luke at around this time in their career. Anakin's first on screen lightsaber to lightsaber fight, gets wrecked by Dooku. Luke's first on screen lightsaber to lightsaber fight, gets toyed with by Vader and loses a hand,even though he was trained by Yoda and mentored by Obi-Wan. Rey's first lightsaber to lightsaber fight, humiliates Kylo who was trained by Luke AND Snoke. Let that sink in for a second. Anakin, the chosen one, child of the force itself, loses to Dooku. The force needs him to be strong since he's the Chosen One and he needs to bring balance, but he isn't a Mary Sue. Luke, trained by Grand Master Yoda gets wrekced and toyed with. The force needs him to be strong to bring Anakin Skywalker back so he can bring balance to everything and destroy the Empire. He isn't a Mary Sue. The argument that "She isn't a Mary Sue because the force needs her to be strong" isn't a really good one.
    Post edited by N_AM10 on
  • ROMG4
    2362 posts Member
    Somewhere in the top 5

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  • Empire_TW
    5079 posts Member
    I didn't really like it.
    Janina Gavankar/Iden Versio Fan
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  • Hometly, it was the worst one out of the main eight for me. Snoke wanted Kylo Ren to kill him because that is how bad the movie was.
    “The force is with me and I am one with the force. I fear nothing because everything is as the Force wills it to be.” -Chirrut Imwe
  • N_AM10 wrote: »
    You said it yourself, the reason Rey didn't kill Snoke was for Kylo to rise to that role. You kinda contradicted yourself. A Mary Sue is an OP character though, so I don't see what you mean by "If she was a Mary Sue, she would've convinced Luke to join the Resistance and turn Ben Solo".

    No, I don’t contradict myself because, as I thought was apparent, I do not agree that Rey is a Mary Sue character. Try to keep up, man. You seem to believe that the term has something to do with melee prowess or something, which is just not how it works. A Mary Sue character wouldn’t get smacked around by the evil Supreme Leader and on top of that needing to be saved from getting her head chopped off on that throne room floor, where she sits helplessly waiting for her doom. A Mary Sue would’ve been the one saving Kylo Ren! And Rey fails to bring Luke with her when she’s on Ach-To, and she fails to turn Kylo Ren and have him join her! Failure is not the way of the Mary Sue character!
    N_AM10 wrote: »
    And fighting against scavengers doesn't prepare you for a fight against the Supreme Leader's guards. She's even doing better than Anakin and Luke at around this time in their career. Anakin's first on screen lightsaber to lightsaber fight, gets wrecked by Dooku. Luke's first on screen lightsaber to lightsaber fight, gets toyed with by Vader and loses a hand,even though he was trained by Yoda and mentored by Obi-Wan. Rey's first lightsaber to lightsaber fight, humiliates Kylo who was trained by Luke AND Yoda. Let that sink in for a second. Anakin, the chosen one, child of the force itself, loses to Dooku. The force needs him to be strong since he's the Chosen One and he needs to bring balance, but he isn't a Mary Sue. Luke, trained by Grand Master Yoda gets wrekced and toyed with.

    Oh, so you are just conveniently skipping Luke- and Anakin's antics before they got to that point, huh? Growing up fighting on the ”streets”, fending off thugs and brutes doesn’t prepare you for a fight against Snoke’s guards, but ”bullseyeing Womp Rats” in a friggin’ speeder prepares you for blowing up a moon sized battlestation in a highly advanced military starship? Luke even takes the lead on the final assault, manages to blow up trained imperial pilots around him and lands the final shot *with his targeting computer turned off*.

    Anakin takes it even further. He’s like 10 years old (!) and not only happen to be a brilliant vehicle and droid engineer, but also manages to win a highly dangerous high speed race, filled with scum and villainy. And after that... he jumps into the cockpit of a fighter starcraft and completely dominates the dojo, saving the day! Now that’s podracing!

    Geez dude, you take a 40+ year old Star Wars trope, where the main protagonists of the trilogies are heroic and strong, pulling off stunts that, with close inspection, looks absolutely ridiculous and unlikely, and turn that around on this one character? That’s like the dudes whining about the rl physics (lol).

    And Rey does not humiliate Ren... he was shot in the gut with this:

    tumblr_oljomw42GI1rszoo3o3_r1_500.gif
    N_AM10 wrote: »
    The force needs him to be strong to bring Anakin Skywalker back so he can bring balance to everything and destroy the Empire. He isn't a Mary Sue. The argument that "She isn't a Mary Sue because the force needs her to be strong" isn't a really good one.

    But it is. Rey is a ”chosen one” too. ”I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise.”, ”Darkness rises and light to meet it.” - Snoke
  • ROMG4
    2362 posts Member
    edited March 29
    And Rey does not humiliate Ren... he was shot in the gut with this:

    tumblr_oljomw42GI1rszoo3o3_r1_500.gif

    The shot that hit Ren was nowhere near the charge level the Bowcaster had in this gif. If the Bow-Caster was at the same charge level it had in this GIF when it shot Ren he would have died instantly, you cannot tell me he survived a Bow-Caster shot anywhere near that level of force. The Bow-Caster is so inconsistent in TFA that you can't really even accurately analyze how strong it is

    Yes, him losing WAS humiliating. He is a Force user trained by both the Jedi and Sith. He has had decades of experience with the Force and Light-Saber training, yet he lost to people who had never held a Light-Saber in their hands before this day.

    Put any other Force User both Light and Dark in this scenario with a similar wound they still would have won. Even make them do the ridiculous taunting duel Kylo gave Finn and Rey for no reason and they still wouldn't lose and do far better than him

    I don't care how many things people bring up to defend this scene the only thing I can say is this

    You do not have the main characters absolutely defeat the main villain of a trilogy in the first film. It means the main characters are only going to get better as the trilogy progresses and the villain loses all credibility because if he lost to them when they were noobs than how is he going to win at all later on?

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    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
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  • DarthJ
    6056 posts Member
    ROMG4 wrote: »
    And Rey does not humiliate Ren... he was shot in the gut with this:

    tumblr_oljomw42GI1rszoo3o3_r1_500.gif

    The shot that hit Ren was nowhere near the charge level the Bowcaster had in this gif. If the Bow-Caster was at the same charge level it had in this GIF when it shot Ren he would have died instantly, you cannot tell me he survived a Bow-Caster shot anywhere near that level of force. The Bow-Caster is so inconsistent in TFA that you can't really even accurately analyze how strong it is

    Yes, him losing WAS humiliating. He is a Force user trained by both the Jedi and Sith. He has had decades of experience with the Force and Light-Saber training, yet he lost to people who had never held a Light-Saber in their hands before this day.

    Put any other Force User both Light and Dark in this scenario with a similar wound they still would have won. Even make them do the ridiculous taunting duel Kylo gave Finn and Rey for no reason and they still wouldn't lose and do far better than him

    I don't care how many things people bring up to defend this scene the only thing I can say is this

    You do not have the main characters absolutely defeat the main villain of a trilogy in the first film. It means the main characters are only going to get better as the trilogy progresses and the villain loses all credibility because if he lost to them when they were noobs than how is he going to win at all later on?

    This. Completely puts me off Kylo and throws any credibility he had away.

    Plus Rey is not the chosen one, or a chosen one, until Disney confirms it (which they undoubtedly will). I fully expect them to say the Jedi got mixed up and Anakin was in fact not the chosen one, it was Rey the whole time
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  • DarthJ
    6056 posts Member

    But it is. Rey is a ”chosen one” too. ”I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise.”, ”Darkness rises and light to meet it.” - Snoke

    I also dislike this new theory that they have brought in, it just feels like a lazy excuse to make Rey strong in the force without any training whatsoever, purely because her DS counterpart grows stronger.

    So how come this never happened before this trilogy?

    By that logic, Luke, without any training, should have been as good as his father from the off. Or with Yoda and Obi dead by ROTJ, as strong as Vader and The Emperor combined. Because both rise at the same time right? Oh wait, it didn't happen then. Luke had to have training, and still got destroyed by Vader in TESB. He wouldn't have gotten close to a focused Vader and the Emperor in ROTJ.

    Also by that logic, Anakin as a 9 year old chosen one should have just been handed a lightsaber and he would have taken down Maul and Sidious with ease, since they were so powerful and needed the light to rise to meet it. No, he needed 10 years of training, and Dooku still beat him with ease in AOTC. I get that Anakin brought balance by effectively destroying both the Jedi and the Sith, which makes him the pivot in the middle if anything. But going off the ST logic he should have had no issue with defeating anyone without training.

    See how daft that all sounds? It has literally just been added to give them an excuse to make Rey all powerful with no force training. I see you mentioned examples against Luke and Anakin. Luke had to have guidance from Obi-Wan before even attempting anything with the force (Obi-Wan guided him if anything in ANH in destroying the Death Star), and we don't see him using an actual force maneuver until TESB. Anakin, other than quick reflexes and foresight, never used a force ability until he had been trained.

    Rey used a mind trick, without ever knowing what it was, in the first movie. And defeated Kylo single-handedly. Its just a poor excuse and poorly written.

    Now if she had of been beaten in that fight, I can guarantee she would be a lot more popular. Fans want to be with their heroes at their worst times, not just the best.
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  • DarthJ wrote: »

    But it is. Rey is a ”chosen one” too. ”I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise.”, ”Darkness rises and light to meet it.” - Snoke

    I also dislike this new theory that they have brought in, it just feels like a lazy excuse to make Rey strong in the force without any training whatsoever, purely because her DS counterpart grows stronger.

    So how come this never happened before this trilogy?

    By that logic, Luke, without any training, should have been as good as his father from the off. Or with Yoda and Obi dead by ROTJ, as strong as Vader and The Emperor combined. Because both rise at the same time right? Oh wait, it didn't happen then. Luke had to have training, and still got destroyed by Vader in TESB. He wouldn't have gotten close to a focused Vader and the Emperor in ROTJ.

    Also by that logic, Anakin as a 9 year old chosen one should have just been handed a lightsaber and he would have taken down Maul and Sidious with ease, since they were so powerful and needed the light to rise to meet it. No, he needed 10 years of training, and Dooku still beat him with ease in AOTC. I get that Anakin brought balance by effectively destroying both the Jedi and the Sith, which makes him the pivot in the middle if anything. But going off the ST logic he should have had no issue with defeating anyone without training.

    See how daft that all sounds? It has literally just been added to give them an excuse to make Rey all powerful with no force training. I see you mentioned examples against Luke and Anakin. Luke had to have guidance from Obi-Wan before even attempting anything with the force (Obi-Wan guided him if anything in ANH in destroying the Death Star), and we don't see him using an actual force maneuver until TESB. Anakin, other than quick reflexes and foresight, never used a force ability until he had been trained.

    Rey used a mind trick, without ever knowing what it was, in the first movie. And defeated Kylo single-handedly. Its just a poor excuse and poorly written.

    Now if she had of been beaten in that fight, I can guarantee she would be a lot more popular. Fans want to be with their heroes at their worst times, not just the best.

    I’ll try to answer your post further later if I have the time, but the fact that you excuse Luke and Anakin, but won’t excuse the same over-the-top antics from Rey speaks tons...

    But quickly, it’s not a theory - Snokes says so... I wasn’t overly happy with the mind trick in TFA, but I have zero problems with her being great with the lightsaber from the go (she is a very skillful fighter, we get to see that early on), or that she is using the force with more vigor than the two boys. There are some interesting thoughts and theories about Rey and her powers relating to the ST’s theme of moving away from the teachings and force appropriation of the jedi order; that without the stale rules and dogmatics of the old religion, the force can be used to a greater capacity, and that is what we see with Rey. You’ll probably call that ”bad writing” or ”shoehorned” or whatever, but it fits perfectly with the story and the tone of the ST.
    DarthJ wrote: »
    Fans want to be with their heroes at their worst times, not just the best.

    I just have to give a quick LOL to this... People got to be with a disgruntled, old hero of theirs in TLJ. Got to know the hermit Luke who shut himself off from the force, due to his self-perceived failures, until his redemption in the end of the film, when he came out as the greatest jedi master and force user of them all. How did that go down?...
    DarthJ wrote: »
    ROMG4 wrote: »
    And Rey does not humiliate Ren... he was shot in the gut with this:

    tumblr_oljomw42GI1rszoo3o3_r1_500.gif

    The shot that hit Ren was nowhere near the charge level the Bowcaster had in this gif. If the Bow-Caster was at the same charge level it had in this GIF when it shot Ren he would have died instantly, you cannot tell me he survived a Bow-Caster shot anywhere near that level of force. The Bow-Caster is so inconsistent in TFA that you can't really even accurately analyze how strong it is

    Yes, him losing WAS humiliating. He is a Force user trained by both the Jedi and Sith. He has had decades of experience with the Force and Light-Saber training, yet he lost to people who had never held a Light-Saber in their hands before this day.

    Put any other Force User both Light and Dark in this scenario with a similar wound they still would have won. Even make them do the ridiculous taunting duel Kylo gave Finn and Rey for no reason and they still wouldn't lose and do far better than him

    I don't care how many things people bring up to defend this scene the only thing I can say is this

    You do not have the main characters absolutely defeat the main villain of a trilogy in the first film. It means the main characters are only going to get better as the trilogy progresses and the villain loses all credibility because if he lost to them when they were noobs than how is he going to win at all later on?
    This. Completely puts me off Kylo and throws any credibility he had away.

    Plus Rey is not the chosen one, or a chosen one, until Disney confirms it (which they undoubtedly will). I fully expect them to say the Jedi got mixed up and Anakin was in fact not the chosen one, it was Rey the whole time

    ”The Chosen One” is a prophecy - a construction of the jedi order. I never saw the force as some sort of divine being that came out and uttered the words ”The Chosen One” with a booming voice... The force seeks balance, that is inferred everywhere in Star Wars. ”Powerful light, powerful darkness”. This is not something new in the franchise. You seem to see it as some sort of weird title that they need to confirm?... That Rey is chosen by the force to rise and face the growing darkness is totally confirmed in TLJ, as I showed you with the quotes above. It’s up to you to accept that, or move on.
  • ROMG4
    2362 posts Member
    edited March 29
    "Kylo had retreated at finding Rey in his head - had practically fled from her. But that had not been the end of that strange, sudden connection. She had seen more - far more. Somehow, almost instinctually, she knew how he accessed some of the powers at his commend - even though she didn't understand them. It was as if his training had become hers, unlocking and flinging open door after door in her mind"

    Character randomly learns brand spanking new powers in a instant without having to train for it because power

    At the very least it is painfully poor writing which sums the ST perfectly
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    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
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  • DarthJ
    6056 posts Member
    I’ll try to answer your post further later if I have the time, but the fact that you excuse Luke and Anakin, but won’t excuse the same over-the-top antics from Rey speaks tons...

    But quickly, it’s not a theory - Snokes says so... I wasn’t overly happy with the mind trick in TFA, but I have zero problems with her being great with the lightsaber from the go (she is a very skillful fighter, we get to see that early on), or that she is using the force with more vigor than the two boys. There are some interesting thoughts and theories about Rey and her powers relating to the ST’s theme of moving away from the teachings and force appropriation of the jedi order; that without the stale rules and dogmatics of the old religion, the force can be used to a greater capacity, and that is what we see with Rey. You’ll probably call that ”bad writing” or ”shoehorned” or whatever, but it fits perfectly with the story and the tone of the ST.



    I just have to give a quick LOL to this... People got to be with a disgruntled, old hero of theirs in TLJ. Got to know the hermit Luke who shut himself off from the force, due to his self-perceived failures, until his redemption in the end of the film, when he came out as the greatest jedi master and force user of them all. How did that go down?...



    ”The Chosen One” is a prophecy - a construction of the jedi order. I never saw the force as some sort of divine being that came out and uttered the words ”The Chosen One” with a booming voice... The force seeks balance, that is inferred everywhere in Star Wars. ”Powerful light, powerful darkness”. This is not something new in the franchise. You seem to see it as some sort of weird title that they need to confirm?... That Rey is chosen by the force to rise and face the growing darkness is totally confirmed in TLJ, as I showed you with the quotes above. It’s up to you to accept that, or move on.

    1 - I didn't excuse them at all, but they didn't do anything of the level of mind tricks and supreme saber skills over someone who has had training within their first films, or in their respective timelines. Doing a mind trick is a completely different kettle of fish from having good reflexes and foresight. Yes, Anakin in Episode 1 is ridiculous when he takes down the droid control ship, but its not like throughout that fight he was destroying everything. He also had previous piloting skills and excellent reflexes, which Rey has too. But that's not on the level of mind tricking someone immediately. The fact that you try to defend it speaks tons. It is essentially bad writing and an easy excuse to automatically make her as powerful as the villain (who then looks utterly pap due to this). It shoots itself in the foot.

    2 - We aren't on about Luke, we are on about Rey. Simply put, she isn't as likeable because she can do everything and doesn't have flaws or is ever beaten. If she had of lost that first fight with Ren, with Chewie coming to save them in the falcon or something, it would have done wonders for both Rey and Ren as characters. Now we pretty much know she will beat Ren in IX, as they have said it will be the last part of the Skywalker saga for good. So, really, what has he brought into the saga other than being beaten on constantly?

    3 - Its 'The Chosen One' as you said, not 'The Chosen Ones'. Typically in any franchise that has this element, it is one person. Harry Potter, for example. The Chosen One is clearly Anakin, as all parts of the Star Wars lore show. The TCW show shows this. The movies mention it is him specifically. It is, in a sense, some sort of 'weird title' they have to confirm. Unless you want to straight up ignore 1-6 so you can just count the ST lore as above the rest? Rey is not 'The Chosen One' by any means.

    Also, might be worth remembering people have opinions. I respect yours, as much as we disagree. You seem to come in swinging and mocking anyone who slightly mentions anything bad about the ST.
    PSN: ibrajoker59
  • ROMG4
    2362 posts Member
    edited March 29
    No, I don’t contradict myself because, as I thought was apparent, I do not agree that Rey is a Mary Sue character. Try to keep up, man. You seem to believe that the term has something to do with melee prowess or something, which is just not how it works. A Mary Sue character wouldn’t get smacked around by the evil Supreme Leader and on top of that needing to be saved from getting her head chopped off on that throne room floor, where she sits helplessly waiting for her doom.

    And your definition of "Mary Sue" is also quite limited. You seem to think being a Mary Sue must mean you have to have unlimited power, be invincible or something. A character doesn't need to be invincible or shoot laser beams in order to be a Mary Sue

    Heck the original "Mary Sue" from the Star Trek fan-fiction for who the term was coined wasn't that at all. Mary Sue was a character that was loved by all the main characters such as Spock and Kirk, was so good at her job she was made an Officer even though she was 15 years old, saved the characters from near death situations by pulling out Mcguffins, commanded the Enterprise just as well as Kirk and so forth

    What does Rey do in TFA? For one she commanded the Millennium Falcon a ship she had never piloted before on a level above Han or Lando in the OT pulling off ridiculous maneuvers and flight paths with a ship that's super bulky with perfect reaction times, Win the trust and respect of Han and Leia near instantly along with understanding the Falcon's interior on a level as high as Han even finding out what was wrong with the falcon faster than Han

    She than resists Kylo Ren's force probe and steals training from him at that, uses the training to Mind-Trick a guard, effortlessly sneaks around the entire alerted Starkiller base, than beats up Kylo Ren

    TLJ: She resists a Dark Side cave after being fully emerged in it, Somehow knows how to swim, Has emenous force potential with no explanation for why, All leading up to where she trains herself by fighting rocks and in the time-span of 4 days max she is already able to dominate in a room filled with ELITE MELEE SPECIALIZED TRAINED GUARDS that were able to nearly kill Kylo and even SAVES him
    A Mary Sue would’ve been the one saving Kylo Ren! And Rey fails to bring Luke with her when she’s on Ach-To, and she fails to turn Kylo Ren and have him join her! Failure is not the way of the Mary Sue character!
    You seem to be forgetting the fact that the story didn't want Luke to be redeemed or Kylo to turn. Once again your definition of Mary Sue is far more limited than the actual thing. By remaining incorruptible and not giving up and being lazy like Luke. Rey has effectively risen above everyone else and is now a paragon of virtue compared to the washed up OT gang and Kylo.

    "Mary Sue stories—the adventures of the youngest and smartest ever person to graduate from the academy and ever get a commission at such a tender age. Usually characterized by unprecedented skill in everything from art to zoology, including karate and arm-wrestling. This character can also be found burrowing her way into the good graces/heart/mind of one of the Big Three [Kirk, Spock, and McCoy], if not all three at once. She saves the day by her wit and ability, and, if we are lucky, has the good grace to die at the end, being grieved by the entire ship" -Patricia Smith (Trekkie's Tale)
    Post edited by ROMG4 on
    OOM-9 FOR BATTLEFRONT 2
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    The OOM-9 Thread
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
  • ROMG4
    2362 posts Member
    edited March 29
    Oh, so you are just conveniently skipping Luke- and Anakin's antics before they got to that point, huh? Growing up fighting on the ”streets”, fending off thugs and brutes doesn’t prepare you for a fight against Snoke’s guards, but ”bullseyeing Womp Rats” in a friggin’ speeder prepares you for blowing up a moon sized battlestation in a highly advanced military starship? Luke even takes the lead on the final assault, manages to blow up trained imperial pilots around him and lands the final shot *with his targeting computer turned off*.

    Anakin was a slave that had been forced to Pod-Race, build and repair Droids his entire life. The film takes a lot of care to remind you of that. and the reason he's good is less because of his skill and more because he can see briefly into the future and react accordingly

    Something to note is that the film consistently reminds us that Anakin had failed, crashed, and nearly died many times on the race track prior to him winning the Boontha Eve Race. In fact before Qui-Gon and the rest had arrived on the planet he had already destroyed Watto's Racer in a race he failed in

    Anakin's success is marred by failure and while it is silly the film gives plenty of justification for his racing skills

    Luke originally had more scenes in the movie explaining his qualification to be a pilot, however they were cut for time. That said the film still builds up Luke's pilot training, It's not given in a throw-away line like Rey's was there are numerous lines throughout the movie that substantiate Luke's pilot training. After all his friend Biggs was made a Rebel pilot and since Luke and Biggs attended the same training and flew the same ships, it makes sense he is good.

    I would also like to remind you Luke's piloting skills aren't that extraordinary in ANH. He isn't the last remaining pilot through being so much better than anyone else. He survives because other people sacrifice themselves for him, he wouldn't have even destroyed the Death Star were it not for Obi-Wan's help and Han saving him from being shot by Vader

    "BIGGS: Sir, Luke is the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim Territories."
    he jumps into the cockpit of a fighter starcraft and completely dominates the dojo, saving the day! Now that’s podracing!
    He wasn't even controlling it until he got inside the Command Ship. Even than he won by complete stupid accident

    That's a poor showing but it is prequel writing and that's thing about bad writing. You can't justify something being poorly written by saying "Well, this was iffy in the past so 2 wrongs make a right"

    That's dumb, you are smarter and better than this
    But quickly, it’s not a theory - Snokes says so... I wasn’t overly happy with the mind trick in TFA, but I have zero problems with her being great with the lightsaber from the go (she is a very skillful fighter, we get to see that early on),
    giphy.gif

    I'm sorry but that is like saying the local Irish drunk that gets into fights on Friday can go beat down Mike Tyson in the ring when Tyson was in his prime. There is quite a bit of difference between fighting local drunks, and starving and desperate survivors with blunt and clunky weapons. AND fighting people who have trained their whole LIVES and dedicated themselves to honing their melee skills. You know, people that have reactions so good they can deflect Lazers?

    Yeah I'm sorry a person that is used to chaotic and frenzied brawling isn't taking down somebody like Bruce Lee

    giphy.gif
    b5fb7639b654a528587f256c26a1e2b8.gif

    ”The Chosen One” is a prophecy - a construction of the jedi order. I never saw the force as some sort of divine being that came out and uttered the words ”The Chosen One” with a booming voice... The force seeks balance, that is inferred everywhere in Star Wars. ”Powerful light, powerful darkness”. This is not something new in the franchise. You seem to see it as some sort of weird title that they need to confirm?... That Rey is chosen by the force to rise and face the growing darkness is totally confirmed in TLJ, as I showed you with the quotes above. It’s up to you to accept that, or move on.
    Are you using a subjective view-point to justify your argument?

    I'll give you a booming voice



    Post edited by ROMG4 on
    OOM-9 FOR BATTLEFRONT 2
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    The OOM-9 Thread
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    And Rey does not humiliate Ren... he was shot in the gut with this:

    tumblr_oljomw42GI1rszoo3o3_r1_500.gif

    The shot that hit Ren was nowhere near the charge level the Bowcaster had in this gif. If the Bow-Caster was at the same charge level it had in this GIF when it shot Ren he would have died instantly, you cannot tell me he survived a Bow-Caster shot anywhere near that level of force. The Bow-Caster is so inconsistent in TFA that you can't really even accurately analyze how strong it is

    Yes, him losing WAS humiliating. He is a Force user trained by both the Jedi and Sith. He has had decades of experience with the Force and Light-Saber training, yet he lost to people who had never held a Light-Saber in their hands before this day.

    Put any other Force User both Light and Dark in this scenario with a similar wound they still would have won. Even make them do the ridiculous taunting duel Kylo gave Finn and Rey for no reason and they still wouldn't lose and do far better than him

    I don't care how many things people bring up to defend this scene the only thing I can say is this

    You do not have the main characters absolutely defeat the main villain of a trilogy in the first film. It means the main characters are only going to get better as the trilogy progresses and the villain loses all credibility because if he lost to them when they were noobs than how is he going to win at all later on?

    And it really doesn’t matter how many faults you think you see with it either. Whatever your feelings are on it, Kylo Ren was badly hurt and, after just having murdered his father in cold blood, very likely not quite ”there” mentally... No, Rey had never used a lightsaber, but she sure knew how to fight, which, together with the force, led her to be victorious in the first film of the sequel trilogy. Luke Skywalker had never flown an X-Wing before, but he sure knew how to fly, which, together with the force, led him to blowing up the Death Star in the first film of the original trilogy.

    Kylo Ren is not the same kind of villain as Darth Vader was, sorry. He’s arrogant and deeply conflicted. You may not like it, but they went that way with him. TFA got some flak for being a rehash of the OT, but when they move away from the classic villain pattern, they get flak for that too... lol.

    ”You do not have the main characters absolutely defeat the main villain of a trilogy in the first film.”

    Yeah, we all remember Darth Vader’s majestic exit in ANH, you know when he rolled out of range from the DS explosion like a friggin’ fidget spinner, fast breathing, looking all stressed... nothing humiliating about that...
  • DarthJ wrote: »
    I’ll try to answer your post further later if I have the time, but the fact that you excuse Luke and Anakin, but won’t excuse the same over-the-top antics from Rey speaks tons...

    But quickly, it’s not a theory - Snokes says so... I wasn’t overly happy with the mind trick in TFA, but I have zero problems with her being great with the lightsaber from the go (she is a very skillful fighter, we get to see that early on), or that she is using the force with more vigor than the two boys. There are some interesting thoughts and theories about Rey and her powers relating to the ST’s theme of moving away from the teachings and force appropriation of the jedi order; that without the stale rules and dogmatics of the old religion, the force can be used to a greater capacity, and that is what we see with Rey. You’ll probably call that ”bad writing” or ”shoehorned” or whatever, but it fits perfectly with the story and the tone of the ST.



    I just have to give a quick LOL to this... People got to be with a disgruntled, old hero of theirs in TLJ. Got to know the hermit Luke who shut himself off from the force, due to his self-perceived failures, until his redemption in the end of the film, when he came out as the greatest jedi master and force user of them all. How did that go down?...



    ”The Chosen One” is a prophecy - a construction of the jedi order. I never saw the force as some sort of divine being that came out and uttered the words ”The Chosen One” with a booming voice... The force seeks balance, that is inferred everywhere in Star Wars. ”Powerful light, powerful darkness”. This is not something new in the franchise. You seem to see it as some sort of weird title that they need to confirm?... That Rey is chosen by the force to rise and face the growing darkness is totally confirmed in TLJ, as I showed you with the quotes above. It’s up to you to accept that, or move on.

    1 - I didn't excuse them at all, but they didn't do anything of the level of mind tricks and supreme saber skills over someone who has had training within their first films, or in their respective timelines. Doing a mind trick is a completely different kettle of fish from having good reflexes and foresight. Yes, Anakin in Episode 1 is ridiculous when he takes down the droid control ship, but its not like throughout that fight he was destroying everything. He also had previous piloting skills and excellent reflexes, which Rey has too. But that's not on the level of mind tricking someone immediately. The fact that you try to defend it speaks tons. It is essentially bad writing and an easy excuse to automatically make her as powerful as the villain (who then looks utterly pap due to this). It shoots itself in the foot.

    2 - We aren't on about Luke, we are on about Rey. Simply put, she isn't as likeable because she can do everything and doesn't have flaws or is ever beaten. If she had of lost that first fight with Ren, with Chewie coming to save them in the falcon or something, it would have done wonders for both Rey and Ren as characters. Now we pretty much know she will beat Ren in IX, as they have said it will be the last part of the Skywalker saga for good. So, really, what has he brought into the saga other than being beaten on constantly?

    3 - Its 'The Chosen One' as you said, not 'The Chosen Ones'. Typically in any franchise that has this element, it is one person. Harry Potter, for example. The Chosen One is clearly Anakin, as all parts of the Star Wars lore show. The TCW show shows this. The movies mention it is him specifically. It is, in a sense, some sort of 'weird title' they have to confirm. Unless you want to straight up ignore 1-6 so you can just count the ST lore as above the rest? Rey is not 'The Chosen One' by any means.

    1. Rey is curious and open to her newly found powers. She’s also strong with the force. She’s probably heard of the jedi doing a mindtrick, and she goes on to try it for herself. And yes, it makes her feel as powerful as Ren, which is sort of my point. This trilogy thematizes around that balance.

    2. You literally wrote ”heroes”...

    3. But I’m not saying she’s ”The Chosen One” (capital letters), I’m saying she’s a chosen one, as Snoke explicitly (well, more or less) says she is. Again, you are referring to the jedi prophecy, the old belief that even the jedi are cautious about. I have no objections to Anakin being the subject of that prophecy, and I most definitely do not ignore 1-6. But on the same note you can’t ignore ep. VII-IX and the expanded lore it offers, if you want to legitimately stay with your arguments now. The force seeks balance and as darkness rises, light needs to grow strong and meet it. This is official lore too. The force chooses Rey. That’s why she is strong.
    DarthJ wrote: »
    Also, might be worth remembering people have opinions. I respect yours, as much as we disagree. You seem to come in swinging and mocking anyone who slightly mentions anything bad about the ST.

    Wth is this, man? I’d really like you to show me where I have been ”mocking” anyone who slightly mentions something about the ST. Atleast any more than you are mocking me. Are you seriously saying that I don’t respect other people’s opinions on this? What, because I respond with actual text? If you wanna play mr. Righteous around here, how come I never see you move against the posters that immediately slams the people mentioning anything good about the ST? How come I don’t see you react vehemently at the multiple, taunting LOL’s I get every post I make in this thread? Trying to drag me, huh?
  • Oh, I’ll throw in the mocking GIFs above too, @DarthJ. I surely hope you have something to say about that now.
  • EA_Rtas
    371 posts EA Moderator
    Alright cool it off in here with the bickering. You're clearly able to debate without it so cut it out
  • DarthJ
    6056 posts Member
    Oh, I’ll throw in the mocking GIFs above too, @DarthJ. I surely hope you have something to say about that now.

    @ROMG4 knows I hate him as it is @Prof_Moriarty , I will scold him later, don't you worry
    PSN: ibrajoker59
  • EA_Rtas wrote: »
    Alright cool it off in here with the bickering. You're clearly able to debate without it so cut it out

    Thank you.
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    Oh, so you are just conveniently skipping Luke- and Anakin's antics before they got to that point, huh? Growing up fighting on the ”streets”, fending off thugs and brutes doesn’t prepare you for a fight against Snoke’s guards, but ”bullseyeing Womp Rats” in a friggin’ speeder prepares you for blowing up a moon sized battlestation in a highly advanced military starship? Luke even takes the lead on the final assault, manages to blow up trained imperial pilots around him and lands the final shot *with his targeting computer turned off*.

    Anakin was a slave that had been forced to Pod-Race, build and repair Droids his entire life. The film takes a lot of care to remind you of that. and the reason he's good is less because of his skill and more because he can see briefly into the future and react accordingly

    Something to note is that the film consistently reminds us that Anakin had failed, crashed, and nearly died many times on the race track prior to him winning the Boontha Eve Race. In fact before Qui-Gon and the rest had arrived on the planet he had already destroyed Watto's Racer in a race he failed in

    Anakin's success is marred by failure and while it is silly the film gives plenty of justification for his racing skills

    Luke originally had more scenes in the movie explaining his qualification to be a pilot, however they were cut for time. That said the film still builds up Luke's pilot training, It's not given in a throw-away line like Rey's was there are numerous lines throughout the movie that substantiate Luke's pilot training. After all his friend Biggs was made a Rebel pilot and since Luke and Biggs attended the same training and flew the same ships, it makes sense he is good.

    I would also like to remind you Luke's piloting skills aren't that extraordinary in ANH. He isn't the last remaining pilot through being so much better than anyone else. He survives because other people sacrifice themselves for him, he wouldn't have even destroyed the Death Star were it not for Obi-Wan's help and Han saving him from being shot by Vader

    "BIGGS: Sir, Luke is the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim Territories."
    he jumps into the cockpit of a fighter starcraft and completely dominates the dojo, saving the day! Now that’s podracing!
    He wasn't even controlling it until he got inside the Command Ship. Even than he won by complete stupid accident

    That's a poor showing but it is prequel writing and that's thing about bad writing. You can't justify something being poorly written by saying "Well, this was iffy in the past so 2 wrongs make a right"

    That's dumb, you are smarter and better than this
    But quickly, it’s not a theory - Snokes says so... I wasn’t overly happy with the mind trick in TFA, but I have zero problems with her being great with the lightsaber from the go (she is a very skillful fighter, we get to see that early on),
    giphy.gif

    I'm sorry but that is like saying the local Irish drunk that gets into fights on Friday can go beat down Mike Tyson in the ring when Tyson was in his prime. There is quite a bit of difference between fighting local drunks, and starving and desperate survivors with blunt and clunky weapons. AND fighting people who have trained their whole LIVES and dedicated themselves to honing their melee skills. You know, people that have reactions so good they can deflect Lazers?

    Yeah I'm sorry a person that is used to chaotic and frenzied brawling isn't taking down somebody like Bruce Lee

    giphy.gif
    b5fb7639b654a528587f256c26a1e2b8.gif

    ”The Chosen One” is a prophecy - a construction of the jedi order. I never saw the force as some sort of divine being that came out and uttered the words ”The Chosen One” with a booming voice... The force seeks balance, that is inferred everywhere in Star Wars. ”Powerful light, powerful darkness”. This is not something new in the franchise. You seem to see it as some sort of weird title that they need to confirm?... That Rey is chosen by the force to rise and face the growing darkness is totally confirmed in TLJ, as I showed you with the quotes above. It’s up to you to accept that, or move on.
    Are you using a subjective view-point to justify your argument?

    I'll give you a booming voice




    Long post, but I’ll give a quick answer. You’re excusing Luke and Anakin’s over-the-top antics in the same manner I defend Rey. It’s no different. Luke is a farmer with no combat background who joins an assault on a moon sized military base, and manages to blow it to pieces. To use your own logic, a person that is used to flying cessnas won’t automatically become a good F-16 combat pilot. Anakin is a ten-year-old slave who (idk) involuntarily joins an assault on a blockade and manages to blow it up. Rey is a scavenger who beats up a couple of guards in a throne room. It’s all stupid obviously, but somehow, when it’s Rey, it seems to be worse. Just seems so freakin’ weird to use it as an argument against the ST if it’s present in the OT and the PT too... I agree Rey is strong mind you, but imo there’s nothing wrong with that.

    And I’ll remind you that Kylo Ren is the one carrying the throneroom fight, right up until the end. He is the one fighting multiple enemies the entire battle.

    Are you using a subjective view-point to justify your argument?

    What view-point are you using?...

    Read my latest post on it, perhaps it’ll make my point clearer.
  • ROMG4
    2362 posts Member
    And it really doesn’t matter how many faults you think you see with it either.

    7Dew.gif

    You are telling me that all the faults I mentioned are subjective and that they don't matter

    So your using the awful IQ rotting subjective method with a sprinkle of existentialism for reasons

    And it really doesn’t matter how many faults you think you see with it either. Whatever your feelings are on it, Kylo Ren was badly hurt and, after just having murdered his father in cold blood, very likely not quite ”there” mentally...

    You are writing the movie for the writers. I came to the idea that he was distraught after killing Han so that is why he fought poorly along with his wound. However I've come to realize that was something I assumed rather then was told or shown in the film. Even if that is the reason it still doesn't explain the fact he decided to be an **** and fight it out rather than just using the force to freeze them or you know

    Kill them with it?

    No, Rey had never used a lightsaber, but she sure knew how to fight, which, together with the force, led her to be victorious in the first film of the sequel trilogy.

    Do you know how many poorly done fan-fiction characters win their fights by pulling up random desus ex mcguffins. You just described one

    You don't go from using a Caveman club to beat up scavengers to beating up Oda Nobunaga after picking up a Katana for 2 seconds
    Luke Skywalker had never flown an X-Wing before, but he sure knew how to fly, which, together with the force, led him to blowing up the Death Star in the first film of the original trilogy.
    The force wasn't used as a random mcguffin. It had been built up gradualy through the movie from Obi-Wan instructing luke, the Imperials mocking Vader over his dedication to it, and Vader's skill as a pilot

    It was used as a last ditch leap of faith that took concentration and made Luke even more vulnerable to the Tie-Fighters. Plus Luke didn't use the Force to help him pilot the X-Wing he did it through effort and skill not through force mcguffins like Rey did. Which again makes Rey more of a mary sue because she pulled up a random power up and went "Hulk Smash" on Kylo
    [
    Kylo Ren is not the same kind of villain as Darth Vader was, sorry. He’s arrogant and deeply conflicted. You may not like it, but they went that way with him. TFA got some flak for being a rehash of the OT, but when they move away from the classic villain pattern, they get flak for that too... lol.
    tumblr_ovx6irUEYa1uzm0gno8_400.gif

    So the only thing you took from my argument is that I'm upset Kylo isn't Vader? I don't W A N T him to be a cheap discount rip off Vader, I want a compelling, well written, and engaging Villain. Kylo Ren is the worst written villain we've ever seen in Star Wars alongside Dooku and Maul

    His Complexity, unpredictability and different path isn't a sign of deep and creative writing it's an example of chaotic and inconsistent writing. Kylo Ren frequently acts against stuff that in his character he should be for, does stuff his character wouldn't, all because the plot requires him to do so. His character is entirely dependent upon what the film wants him to be.
    ”You do not have the main characters absolutely defeat the main villain of a trilogy in the first film.”

    Yeah, we all remember Darth Vader’s majestic exit in ANH, you know when he rolled out of range from the DS explosion like a friggin’ fidget spinner, fast breathing, looking all stressed... nothing humiliating about that...
    There's a difference between being flanked in a dogfight by an entirely unexpected enemy and having your co-pilots crash into you. And getting stabbed by a Sanitation Stormtrooper and slashed, cut, stabbed, and landing on yo BUTT by someone who never weilded a Light-Saber before

    Again you rely so heavily on the "2 wrongs make a right" thinking. Snap out of it!
    OOM-9 FOR BATTLEFRONT 2
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    The OOM-9 Thread
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
  • ROMG4
    2362 posts Member
    1. Rey is curious and open to her newly found powers. She’s also strong with the force. She’s probably heard of the jedi doing a mindtrick, and she goes on to try it for herself. And yes, it makes her feel as powerful as Ren, which is sort of my point. This trilogy thematizes around that balance.

    You are writing for the writers again. We have no idea what she knew about the Jedi and even if by some writing convience she knew that the Jedi could influence minds

    That doesn't mean she could pull it off! I know lots of things that doesn't mean I can go out and do them

    I know how Spock does his Vulcan Pinch does that mean I could do it?

    SoulfulHastyEnglishsetter-size_restricted.gif

    I don't care about "Themes" a theme has to be supported by a logical plot and character progression. You can have all the themes in the world a theme does not make poor progression good, better, or ok by itself


    Long post, but I’ll give a quick answer. You’re excusing Luke and Anakin’s over-the-top antics in the same manner I defend Rey. It’s no different. Luke is a farmer with no combat background who joins an assault on a moon sized military base, and manages to blow it to pieces. To use your own logic, a person that is used to flying cessnas won’t automatically become a good F-16 combat pilot. Anakin is a ten-year-old slave who (idk) involuntarily joins an assault on a blockade and manages to blow it up. Rey is a scavenger who beats up a couple of guards in a throne room. It’s all stupid obviously, but somehow, when it’s Rey, it seems to be worse. Just seems so freakin’ weird to use it as an argument against the ST if it’s present in the OT and the PT too... I agree Rey is strong mind you, but imo there’s nothing wrong with that.

    And I’ll remind you that Kylo Ren is the one carrying the throneroom fight, right up until the end. He is the one fighting multiple enemies the entire battle.

    Are you using a subjective view-point to justify your argument?

    What view-point are you using?...

    Read my latest post on it, perhaps it’ll make my point clearer.

    However Anakin and Luke have progression, foreshadow, and substantiating evidence that explains WHY their characters can do that. With the absence of progression, evidence, and a break-neck pace the only definition that can fit Rey's power progression is that word

    Most of the Rebel Alliance soldiers were like Luke. They are a guerrilla force taken from farmers and the like, I highly doubt any had prior military training before joining the rebellion.

    And yes, a person that only flies cessnas would have difficult time dealing with the sheer speed of a F-16. Rey's situation is worse because she isn't given development or any grounding. Her character along with everything else in the ST has been completely let down by the awful film scripts and poor direction. Anakin and Luke have prior plot grounding to justify their abilities, Rey doesn't

    Also I'm pretty sure everyone hated Anakin in EP1, FAR more than any shade Rey has received

    I mean look at this. Rey has had a light saber for less than a week and is already as experienced and powerful Luke was with it after the 2 year period between ANH and ESB and the months of training he received with Yoda

    I'm using the most objective viewpoint I can muster
    OOM-9 FOR BATTLEFRONT 2
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    The OOM-9 Thread
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
  • ROMG4
    2362 posts Member
    edited March 29
    DarthJ wrote: »
    Oh, I’ll throw in the mocking GIFs above too, @DarthJ. I surely hope you have something to say about that now.

    @ROMG4 knows I hate him as it is @Prof_Moriarty , I will scold him later, don't you worry
    k2so1.gif
    OOM-9 FOR BATTLEFRONT 2
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    The OOM-9 Thread
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    You are telling me that all the faults I mentioned are subjective and that they don't matter

    So your using the awful IQ rotting subjective method with a sprinkle of existentialism for reasons

    Well, they are subjective, but I didn’t say they don’t matter, did I? Or are you telling me that these parts of the ST are objectively badly written, and that my opinion, that they are well written, is wrong?
    ROMG4 wrote: »
    You are writing the movie for the writers. I came to the idea that he was distraught after killing Han so that is why he fought poorly along with his wound. However I've come to realize that was something I assumed rather then was told or shown in the film. Even if that is the reason it still doesn't explain the fact he decided to be an **** and fight it out rather than just using the force to freeze them or you know

    Kill them with it?

    I’m not writing it for the writers, I’m filling in the gaps for myself, just as I do when I read novels and watch other films, and then I share those fillings as potentially plausible explanations as to why certain things play out as they do. This time, Snoke is lending a hand however: ”The deed split your spirit to the bone. You were unbalanced, bested by a girl who had never held a lightsaber!”
    ROMG4 wrote: »
    So the only thing you took from my argument is that I'm upset Kylo isn't Vader? I don't W A N T him to be a cheap discount rip off Vader, I want a compelling, well written, and engaging Villain. Kylo Ren is the worst written villain we've ever seen in Star Wars alongside Dooku and Maul

    His Complexity, unpredictability and different path isn't a sign of deep and creative writing it's an example of chaotic and inconsistent writing. Kylo Ren frequently acts against stuff that in his character he should be for, does stuff his character wouldn't, all because the plot requires him to do so. His character is entirely dependent upon what the film wants him to be.

    We are taking things from eachother’s arguments? Okay, I wasn’t aware... I respect this, and I hope you respect that I completely disagree with you, and that your interpretation is just your subjective view. To me he’s more interesting than most characters in the entire saga. To me he is compelling, well written and engaging, and I’m looking forward to see where they take him in ep. IX.
    ROMG4 wrote: »
    Again you rely so heavily on the "2 wrongs make a right" thinking. Snap out of it!

    But they aren’t necessarily ”wrongs” in my book! All I’m saying is that this is how Star Wars is! This isn’t the first time a character has shown off quite ridiculous skills without prior experience! Why let it bog you down now? Yeah, Rey is perhaps portrayed as a bit stronger than Luke or Anakin (although you are imo making her out to be more powerful than what we really get to see...), but so what?! And it doesn’t seem like you think those are wrongs either, since you keep coming up with excuses to why their antics are more ”legit” than Rey’s...
  • ROMG4
    2362 posts Member
    edited March 29
    Well, they are subjective, but I didn’t say they don’t matter, did I? Or are you telling me that these parts of the ST are objectively badly written.

    Everything I just listed is objective evidence. These characters had x reasons and Rey has no grounding or reasoning

    That is not subjective that is objective. Rey's writing is far weaker and gives far fewer reasons to justify her abilities
    Or are you telling me that these parts of the ST are objectively badly written, and that my opinion, that they are well written, is wrong?.

    well-then-you-are-lost-gif-4.gif

    Your personal opinion on the matter or writing is irrelevant. Good writing is not tied to subjectivity it is something that is measured objectively

    Compare an Asylum TV movie to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Subjectively Mega-Shark may be the most amazing thing ever, objectively 2001 Odyssey is one of the greatest movies ever made due to it's good writing, excellent direction, and it's properly done themes that compliment the story

    You say the Sky is blue (which it is) in my point of view it is purple. You say this pile of rotting banana garbage is a pile of garbage, I say it's a sculpture. That is how far we are going to get subjectively. You cannot argue feelings with feelings because you can't get anywhere due to the nature of feelings. The only way to change feelings is through logic and substantiated arguments
    and that your interpretation is just your subjective view.
    It's not a subjective viewpoint I am pointing out actual quantifiable flaws with the movie's plot, characters, and progression. That is nowhere near a subjective view point

    Subjective View Point: The Earth is flat

    Objective Point: The Earth is a globe
    although you are imo making her out to be more powerful than what we really get to see...), but so what?!
    Remember when Luke failed to lift the X-Wing because he couldn't believe it was possible even after months of force training. How Yoda even with his strength in the force still strained to lift the X-Wing because it was heavy, how it took all his strength to keep Anakin and Obi-Wan from being crushed by a falling pillar
    BelatedCandidBats-size_restricted.gif

    Rey did THIS without any training! She is so strong it didn't even strain her she was just casually standing there even having time to casually chat with her friends

    She's a Super Sayian at this point
    This isn’t the first time a character has shown off quite ridiculous skills without prior experience! Why let it bog you down now?
    It is though
    To me he is compelling, well written and engaging, and I’m looking forward to see where they take him in ep. IX.
    Subjective feelings don't make something well written

    That's the writing's job
    And it doesn’t seem like you think those are wrongs either, since you keep coming up with excuses to why their antics are more ”legit” than Rey’s...

    tumblr_orxfqyEB3X1t7x9x7o4_500.gif
    OOM-9 FOR BATTLEFRONT 2
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    The OOM-9 Thread
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
  • ROMG4
    2362 posts Member
    Well, they are subjective, but I didn’t say they don’t matter, did I? Or are you telling me that these parts of the ST are objectively badly written.

    Everything I just listed is objective evidence. These characters had x reasons and Rey has no grounding or reasoning
    That is not subjective that is objective. Rey's writing is far weaker and gives far fewer reasons to justify her abilities
    Or are you telling me that these parts of the ST are objectively badly written, and that my opinion, that they are well written, is wrong?.
    well-then-you-are-lost-gif-4.gif

    Your personal opinion on the matter or writing is irrelevant. Good writing is not tied to subjectivity it is something that is measured objectively

    Compare an Asylum TV movie to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Subjectively Mega-Shark may be the most amazing thing ever, objectively 2001 Odyssey is one of the greatest movies ever made due to it's good writing, excellent direction, and it's properly done themes that compliment the story

    You say the Sky is blue (which it is) in my point of view it is purple. You say this pile of rotting banana garbage is a pile of garbage, I say it's a sculpture. That is how far we are going to get subjectively. You cannot argue feelings with feelings because you can't get anywhere due to the nature of feelings. The only way to change feelings is through logic and substantiated arguments
    and that your interpretation is just your subjective view.

    It's not a subjective viewpoint I am pointing out actual quantifiable flaws with the movie's plot, characters, and progression. That is nowhere near a subjective view point

    Subjective View Point: The Earth is flat

    Objective Point: The Earth is a globe
    although you are imo making her out to be more powerful than what we really get to see...), but so what?
    Remember when Luke failed to lift the X-Wing because he couldn't believe it was possible even after months of force training. How Yoda even with his strength in the force still strained to lift the X-Wing because it was heavy, how it took all his strength to keep Anakin and Obi-Wan from being crushed by a falling pillar

    BelatedCandidBats-size_restricted.gif

    Rey did THIS without any training! She is so strong it didn't even strain her she was just casually standing there even having time to casually chat with her friends

    She's a Super Sayian at this point
    This isn’t the first time a character has shown off quite ridiculous skills without prior experience! Why let it bog you down now?

    It really is though
    And it doesn’t seem like you think those are wrongs either, since you keep coming up with excuses to why their antics are more ”legit” than Rey’s...
    tumblr_orxfqyEB3X1t7x9x7o4_500.gif
    OOM-9 FOR BATTLEFRONT 2
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    The OOM-9 Thread
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    Your personal opinion on the matter or writing is irrelevant. Good writing is not tied to subjectivity it is something that is measured objectively

    Right, before I’m going any further with this, you need to expand on a few things. 1. Define ”good”. 2. Where does the consensus lie? Objectively in relation to what? How are the parametres set, so to speak. I’m not opposed to there being quantifiable aspects of art, but you are putting on quite the elitist display right now, so you might wanna clarify a bit. TFA has a metacritic score of 81 and TLJ has a metacritic score of 85; that is professional movie critics. But I’m assuming you have some more credible sources or a peer reviewed body of work, so share. 3. What is your point?

    And stop with the condescending gifs. To reiterate something you wrote above: You’re better than that.
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    Rey did THIS without any training! She is so strong it didn't even strain her she was just casually standing there even having time to casually chat with her friends

    Without any training btw? This is after Ach-To...
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    Rey did THIS without any training! She is so strong it didn't even strain her she was just casually standing there even having time to casually chat with her friends

    Without any training btw? This is after Ach-To...

    Did she train to lift objects with the Force? Did I miss that part?
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • ROMG4
    2362 posts Member
    edited March 29
    Define ”good”. 2. Where does the consensus lie? Objectively in relation to what? How are the parametres set, so to speak.
    Here's a simple version

    Good well written characters that have logical, consistent, and satisfying character arcs and progression through the movie(s)
    A plot that is interesting and entertaining. This plot will have smooth progression things will react accordingly and prior buildup is acted upon
    No plot holes or stupid scenarios that make no sense aka TLJ Bombers

    Beyond all: Consistency. Why does Kylo Ren kill Lor San Tekka for like two unoffensive comments yet leaves Poe alive despite being mocked by him twice? Why does Hux act like a ****? Why don't people use Hyperspace weapons?
    TFA has a metacritic score of 81 and TLJ has a metacritic score of 85; that is professional movie critics.
    Do you honestly think I care what they have to say? IGN gave TLJ a score of 9.7 but hated Alien Isolation because "Too hard" I cannot value the opinion of a "film critic" when they are so easily bought and so poorly constructed that they look like a blog post
    you have some more credible sources or a peer reviewed body of work, so share. 3. What is your point?

    Peer review it all they want. I have yet to meet anyone who can debunk my arguments and if they can't give me valid reasons to prove my argument wrong their opinion is worthless to me

    Here's a thing. When I saw TLJ in theaters I thought it was pretty interesting. Than I thought about it, just casually on the car drive home not even trying to poke holes into it. The more I thought about it the worse the film got
    And stop with the condescending gifs. To reiterate something you wrote above: You’re better than that.

    2xaiw7.gif
    OOM-9 FOR BATTLEFRONT 2
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    The OOM-9 Thread
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    Rey did THIS without any training! She is so strong it didn't even strain her she was just casually standing there even having time to casually chat with her friends

    Without any training btw? This is after Ach-To...

    Did she train to lift objects with the Force? Did I miss that part?

    Did we get to see the week she was there in its entirety? Since she could lift the rocks, it’s fair to assume she trained to lift rocks... Right? Did we see any of the assumed training Luke did in the three years that passed between ANH and ESB?
  • AzorAhai
    1134 posts Member
    I liked The Last Jedi a lot.

    It's really where Star Wars ceased to be a fairy tale and started moving the franchise in a slightly more sophisticated direction that would be more palatable for modern audiences (we've mostly moved beyond just loving a film for the unbelievable special effects).

    I've always had a hunch that some of the scenes in the final act of the film had to be altered from what was originally intended due to the unexpected loss of Carrie Fisher. I mean, it's entirely possible that the whole Crait sequence would have opened the movie instead of ended it. I got nothing to back that up...just a hunch.
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    Do you honestly think I care what they have to say? IGN gave TLJ a score of 9.7 but hated Alien Isolation because "Too hard" I cannot value the opinion of a "film critic" when they are so easily bought and so poorly constructed that they look like a blog post

    But why then should anyone listen to you? Why should anyone listen to clickbaiting Youtubers, promising to deliver the truth on ”Why TLJ is an objectively bad movie”? If you’re just dismissing film critics as bought (unless they are the few that dissed it, right?) then I’m not surprised you feel you haven’t met anyone who can ”debunk” your arguments! Here: this is a great article I read like a year ago. It even explicitly claims to debunk the supposed flaws, so you’ll like it:

    https://medium.com/@realslimwebby/debunking-every-problem-with-star-wars-the-last-jedi-551c00707139

    If you invest a little time with it, perhaps you’ll change your mind on one or two things. That’s a good thing, right?
    ROMG4 wrote: »
    2xaiw7.gif

    tumblr_inline_orekae8QzG1sz9gyq_400.gif
  • ROMG4
    2362 posts Member
    tumblr_inline_orekae8QzG1sz9gyq_400.gif

    c13.gif
    But why then should anyone listen to you? Why should anyone listen to clickbaiting Youtubers, promising to deliver the truth on ”Why TLJ is an objectively bad movie”? If you’re just dismissing film critics as bought (unless they are the few that dissed it, right?) then I’m not surprised you feel you haven’t met anyone who can ”debunk” your arguments! Here: this is a great article I read like a year ago. It even explicitly claims to debunk the supposed flaws, so you’ll like it:

    https://medium.com/@realslimwebby/debunking-every-problem-with-star-wars-the-last-jedi-551c00707139

    If you invest a little time with it, perhaps you’ll change your mind on one or two things. That’s a good thing, right?

    I'll usually listen to anyone that can make a well reasoned and thoughtout argument. It's the least one can do for the effort

    Be it "Professional" critic or you-tuber. I've listened to both sides but came up with my own conclusion on the film without their influence

    Oh boy the article opens up with "film discourse" and expectation

    This will be a long read
    OOM-9 FOR BATTLEFRONT 2
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    The OOM-9 Thread
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
  • Great thread here. Entertaining read :D
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    Oh, so you are just conveniently skipping Luke- and Anakin's antics before they got to that point, huh? Growing up fighting on the ”streets”, fending off thugs and brutes doesn’t prepare you for a fight against Snoke’s guards, but ”bullseyeing Womp Rats” in a friggin’ speeder prepares you for blowing up a moon sized battlestation in a highly advanced military starship? Luke even takes the lead on the final assault, manages to blow up trained imperial pilots around him and lands the final shot *with his targeting computer turned off*.

    Anakin was a slave that had been forced to Pod-Race, build and repair Droids his entire life. The film takes a lot of care to remind you of that. and the reason he's good is less because of his skill and more because he can see briefly into the future and react accordingly

    Something to note is that the film consistently reminds us that Anakin had failed, crashed, and nearly died many times on the race track prior to him winning the Boontha Eve Race. In fact before Qui-Gon and the rest had arrived on the planet he had already destroyed Watto's Racer in a race he failed in

    Anakin's success is marred by failure and while it is silly the film gives plenty of justification for his racing skills

    Luke originally had more scenes in the movie explaining his qualification to be a pilot, however they were cut for time. That said the film still builds up Luke's pilot training, It's not given in a throw-away line like Rey's was there are numerous lines throughout the movie that substantiate Luke's pilot training. After all his friend Biggs was made a Rebel pilot and since Luke and Biggs attended the same training and flew the same ships, it makes sense he is good.

    I would also like to remind you Luke's piloting skills aren't that extraordinary in ANH. He isn't the last remaining pilot through being so much better than anyone else. He survives because other people sacrifice themselves for him, he wouldn't have even destroyed the Death Star were it not for Obi-Wan's help and Han saving him from being shot by Vader

    "BIGGS: Sir, Luke is the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim Territories."
    he jumps into the cockpit of a fighter starcraft and completely dominates the dojo, saving the day! Now that’s podracing!
    He wasn't even controlling it until he got inside the Command Ship. Even than he won by complete stupid accident

    That's a poor showing but it is prequel writing and that's thing about bad writing. You can't justify something being poorly written by saying "Well, this was iffy in the past so 2 wrongs make a right"

    That's dumb, you are smarter and better than this
    But quickly, it’s not a theory - Snokes says so... I wasn’t overly happy with the mind trick in TFA, but I have zero problems with her being great with the lightsaber from the go (she is a very skillful fighter, we get to see that early on),
    giphy.gif

    I'm sorry but that is like saying the local Irish drunk that gets into fights on Friday can go beat down Mike Tyson in the ring when Tyson was in his prime. There is quite a bit of difference between fighting local drunks, and starving and desperate survivors with blunt and clunky weapons. AND fighting people who have trained their whole LIVES and dedicated themselves to honing their melee skills. You know, people that have reactions so good they can deflect Lazers?

    Yeah I'm sorry a person that is used to chaotic and frenzied brawling isn't taking down somebody like Bruce Lee

    giphy.gif
    b5fb7639b654a528587f256c26a1e2b8.gif

    ”The Chosen One” is a prophecy - a construction of the jedi order. I never saw the force as some sort of divine being that came out and uttered the words ”The Chosen One” with a booming voice... The force seeks balance, that is inferred everywhere in Star Wars. ”Powerful light, powerful darkness”. This is not something new in the franchise. You seem to see it as some sort of weird title that they need to confirm?... That Rey is chosen by the force to rise and face the growing darkness is totally confirmed in TLJ, as I showed you with the quotes above. It’s up to you to accept that, or move on.
    Are you using a subjective view-point to justify your argument?

    I'll give you a booming voice




    Long post, but I’ll give a quick answer. You’re excusing Luke and Anakin’s over-the-top antics in the same manner I defend Rey. It’s no different. Luke is a farmer with no combat background who joins an assault on a moon sized military base, and manages to blow it to pieces. To use your own logic, a person that is used to flying cessnas won’t automatically become a good F-16 combat pilot. Anakin is a ten-year-old slave who (idk) involuntarily joins an assault on a blockade and manages to blow it up. Rey is a scavenger who beats up a couple of guards in a throne room. It’s all stupid obviously, but somehow, when it’s Rey, it seems to be worse. Just seems so freakin’ weird to use it as an argument against the ST if it’s present in the OT and the PT too... I agree Rey is strong mind you, but imo there’s nothing wrong with that.

    And I’ll remind you that Kylo Ren is the one carrying the throneroom fight, right up until the end. He is the one fighting multiple enemies the entire battle.

    Are you using a subjective view-point to justify your argument?

    What view-point are you using?...

    Read my latest post on it, perhaps it’ll make my point clearer.

    You are wrong about Luke. He practiced to perfection hunting with terrible weapons, giving him superior aiming skills. He also had cheap flying ships called TL60’s which where extremely cheap, where he perfected his skills.

    Rey also had some experience with fighting off thugs, but nothing compared to what she did.

    Luke was expierence and knew somewhat what he was doing, Rey had no idea what she was doin and could of died misusing her force powers.
    “The force is with me and I am one with the force. I fear nothing because everything is as the Force wills it to be.” -Chirrut Imwe
  • Also, Snoke wanted Kylo REN to kill him. Have we all agreed on that?
    “The force is with me and I am one with the force. I fear nothing because everything is as the Force wills it to be.” -Chirrut Imwe
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