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Clone Commando Community Transmission
September Community Calendar

Sequel Trilogy content

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Replies

  • lowell
    1301 posts Member
    TheScape wrote: »
    Pretty sure that has already been said at least once, but tbh I really did not want to go through the 5 pages completely.

    ST trilogy has not as much content left to explore as other eras have. If you like the movies or not, there simply is not much to add to the current state tbh

    If we can have reinforcements coming from a TV show for one era, the ST is no different. We even have a tank that hasn't appeared anywhere else in terms of canon. So, again, there is content left to explore from outside the movies (at least a couple of SA scenarios and what I would consider a cool GA one), but I don't mind waiting until episode IX for new content.

    There is no excuse to not port the GA maps to CS, Extraction, HvV or Strike (I am thinking about Crait for the last two). There is also no excuse to not try to create an Infiltrator for that era either (there are FO special forces and we could have Resistance pilots as spies). The only valid excuse for these two things is the lack of resources.

    I agree with you on that to a certain point, but what other than the movies for ST content do exist except comics (which I have not seen being adapted in BF2 yet)? I think there is one TV show regarding ST, but this also does not have many more planets, locations, all out warfare scenarios, special units and stuff, or am I wrong there? idk...

    I do not want to say there is "more relevant" content that could be added to the game, especially with regards to the fact that there are so many unused assets from SWBF2015 for OT era, that could be easily used to create new maps and locations. But there are simply benefits to serve OT and PT and at the very last, after Ep.9 new ST things, when there is more for the complete BF audience to rely to. When it comes to Series and Movies, I think much more people recognize and see such things (due to trailers and stuff) other than comics and books, which are nowadays lesser seen in advertisments.

    Yes, I would also like to see more of the existing maps compatible with more modes in this games and maybe across some eras too, but guess Devs have distanced themselves from these ideas

    If I had to choose what materials to get inspiration from to bring in to the game to expand it between Battlefront 2015 and the rest of the canon (shows, books, comics, parks, VR experiences), I would choose the latter. Battlefront 2015 limited a lot of the elements to the films-only standard, this current game can do better than that and introduce players to the rest of the canon beyond the films they haven't been exposed to yet.
  • TheScape
    2236 posts Member
    TheScape wrote: »
    Pretty sure that has already been said at least once, but tbh I really did not want to go through the 5 pages completely.

    ST trilogy has not as much content left to explore as other eras have. If you like the movies or not, there simply is not much to add to the current state tbh

    If we can have reinforcements coming from a TV show for one era, the ST is no different. We even have a tank that hasn't appeared anywhere else in terms of canon. So, again, there is content left to explore from outside the movies (at least a couple of SA scenarios and what I would consider a cool GA one), but I don't mind waiting until episode IX for new content.

    There is no excuse to not port the GA maps to CS, Extraction, HvV or Strike (I am thinking about Crait for the last two). There is also no excuse to not try to create an Infiltrator for that era either (there are FO special forces and we could have Resistance pilots as spies). The only valid excuse for these two things is the lack of resources.

    I agree with you on that to a certain point, but what other than the movies for ST content do exist except comics (which I have not seen being adapted in BF2 yet)? I think there is one TV show regarding ST, but this also does not have many more planets, locations, all out warfare scenarios, special units and stuff, or am I wrong there? idk...

    I do not want to say there is "more relevant" content that could be added to the game, especially with regards to the fact that there are so many unused assets from SWBF2015 for OT era, that could be easily used to create new maps and locations. But there are simply benefits to serve OT and PT and at the very last, after Ep.9 new ST things, when there is more for the complete BF audience to rely to. When it comes to Series and Movies, I think much more people recognize and see such things (due to trailers and stuff) other than comics and books, which are nowadays lesser seen in advertisments.

    Yes, I would also like to see more of the existing maps compatible with more modes in this games and maybe across some eras too, but guess Devs have distanced themselves from these ideas

    The GA scenario I was thinking about is the season finale from the TV show. If you are interested in the show, this could be an spoiler, but basically the First Order wants to take control of the Colossus station (planet Castilon) while the "Resistance" tries to get the station operational as a vertical capital ship. So, basically, it would be similar to Death Star II (hacking objectives), but with a lot of verticality since you would be trying to get to the controls in the depths of the station. The cool thing about the station is that is also submerged, so you could have areas where you see the water through the windows (similar to Bioshock). If the FO wins, the Resistance gets arrested, but if the Resistance wins the station emerges and goes to hyperspace. We could also have an scenario that plays like Death Star inside Snoke's Star Destroyer. But, as I said, I wouldn't push for something like that. I would rather wait for episode 9, to see what they give us from there, first.

    In terms of SA I know that Poe has some skirmishes on his comic book (I have only read the first volume, but I have looked over the arcs), but you could have an atmospheric fight on Castilon, too. The other more far-fetched options are atmospheric D'Qar/Starkiller Base. I still want bombers for the ST, though. Not having them is like playing GA in the ST without the Heavy class. And I really hate how the FO starfighters are both basically the same model-wise.

    As far as I know, the only thing added from the comics is Leia's default appearance, but I haven't read all of them to say for sure that none of the GA/SA scenarios are explored there. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to get stuff from there. Phasma has a really cool appearance that I would like added at some point.

    Anyways, my points is, there are options for new content, but I can patiently wait until the trilogy finished to start asking for things outside the movies if we at least get Infiltrators and CS for all eras (including OT). The ground phase of CS is too good to keep it locked for just one era.
    May your heart be your guiding key.
  • TheScape wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    Pretty sure that has already been said at least once, but tbh I really did not want to go through the 5 pages completely.

    ST trilogy has not as much content left to explore as other eras have. If you like the movies or not, there simply is not much to add to the current state tbh

    If we can have reinforcements coming from a TV show for one era, the ST is no different. We even have a tank that hasn't appeared anywhere else in terms of canon. So, again, there is content left to explore from outside the movies (at least a couple of SA scenarios and what I would consider a cool GA one), but I don't mind waiting until episode IX for new content.

    There is no excuse to not port the GA maps to CS, Extraction, HvV or Strike (I am thinking about Crait for the last two). There is also no excuse to not try to create an Infiltrator for that era either (there are FO special forces and we could have Resistance pilots as spies). The only valid excuse for these two things is the lack of resources.

    I agree with you on that to a certain point, but what other than the movies for ST content do exist except comics (which I have not seen being adapted in BF2 yet)? I think there is one TV show regarding ST, but this also does not have many more planets, locations, all out warfare scenarios, special units and stuff, or am I wrong there? idk...

    I do not want to say there is "more relevant" content that could be added to the game, especially with regards to the fact that there are so many unused assets from SWBF2015 for OT era, that could be easily used to create new maps and locations. But there are simply benefits to serve OT and PT and at the very last, after Ep.9 new ST things, when there is more for the complete BF audience to rely to. When it comes to Series and Movies, I think much more people recognize and see such things (due to trailers and stuff) other than comics and books, which are nowadays lesser seen in advertisments.

    Yes, I would also like to see more of the existing maps compatible with more modes in this games and maybe across some eras too, but guess Devs have distanced themselves from these ideas

    The GA scenario I was thinking about is the season finale from the TV show. If you are interested in the show, this could be an spoiler, but basically the First Order wants to take control of the Colossus station (planet Castilon) while the "Resistance" tries to get the station operational as a vertical capital ship. So, basically, it would be similar to Death Star II (hacking objectives), but with a lot of verticality since you would be trying to get to the controls in the depths of the station. The cool thing about the station is that is also submerged, so you could have areas where you see the water through the windows (similar to Bioshock). If the FO wins, the Resistance gets arrested, but if the Resistance wins the station emerges and goes to hyperspace. We could also have an scenario that plays like Death Star inside Snoke's Star Destroyer. But, as I said, I wouldn't push for something like that. I would rather wait for episode 9, to see what they give us from there, first.

    In terms of SA I know that Poe has some skirmishes on his comic book (I have only read the first volume, but I have looked over the arcs), but you could have an atmospheric fight on Castilon, too. The other more far-fetched options are atmospheric D'Qar/Starkiller Base. I still want bombers for the ST, though. Not having them is like playing GA in the ST without the Heavy class. And I really hate how the FO starfighters are both basically the same model-wise.

    As far as I know, the only thing added from the comics is Leia's default appearance, but I haven't read all of them to say for sure that none of the GA/SA scenarios are explored there. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to get stuff from there. Phasma has a really cool appearance that I would like added at some point.

    Anyways, my points is, there are options for new content, but I can patiently wait until the trilogy finished to start asking for things outside the movies if we at least get Infiltrators and CS for all eras (including OT). The ground phase of CS is too good to keep it locked for just one era.

    Those GA concepts sound amazing! I would love to have GA on the Colossus.
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • TheScape wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    Pretty sure that has already been said at least once, but tbh I really did not want to go through the 5 pages completely.

    ST trilogy has not as much content left to explore as other eras have. If you like the movies or not, there simply is not much to add to the current state tbh

    If we can have reinforcements coming from a TV show for one era, the ST is no different. We even have a tank that hasn't appeared anywhere else in terms of canon. So, again, there is content left to explore from outside the movies (at least a couple of SA scenarios and what I would consider a cool GA one), but I don't mind waiting until episode IX for new content.

    There is no excuse to not port the GA maps to CS, Extraction, HvV or Strike (I am thinking about Crait for the last two). There is also no excuse to not try to create an Infiltrator for that era either (there are FO special forces and we could have Resistance pilots as spies). The only valid excuse for these two things is the lack of resources.

    I agree with you on that to a certain point, but what other than the movies for ST content do exist except comics (which I have not seen being adapted in BF2 yet)? I think there is one TV show regarding ST, but this also does not have many more planets, locations, all out warfare scenarios, special units and stuff, or am I wrong there? idk...

    I do not want to say there is "more relevant" content that could be added to the game, especially with regards to the fact that there are so many unused assets from SWBF2015 for OT era, that could be easily used to create new maps and locations. But there are simply benefits to serve OT and PT and at the very last, after Ep.9 new ST things, when there is more for the complete BF audience to rely to. When it comes to Series and Movies, I think much more people recognize and see such things (due to trailers and stuff) other than comics and books, which are nowadays lesser seen in advertisments.

    Yes, I would also like to see more of the existing maps compatible with more modes in this games and maybe across some eras too, but guess Devs have distanced themselves from these ideas

    The GA scenario I was thinking about is the season finale from the TV show. If you are interested in the show, this could be an spoiler, but basically the First Order wants to take control of the Colossus station (planet Castilon) while the "Resistance" tries to get the station operational as a vertical capital ship. So, basically, it would be similar to Death Star II (hacking objectives), but with a lot of verticality since you would be trying to get to the controls in the depths of the station. The cool thing about the station is that is also submerged, so you could have areas where you see the water through the windows (similar to Bioshock). If the FO wins, the Resistance gets arrested, but if the Resistance wins the station emerges and goes to hyperspace. We could also have an scenario that plays like Death Star inside Snoke's Star Destroyer. But, as I said, I wouldn't push for something like that. I would rather wait for episode 9, to see what they give us from there, first.

    In terms of SA I know that Poe has some skirmishes on his comic book (I have only read the first volume, but I have looked over the arcs), but you could have an atmospheric fight on Castilon, too. The other more far-fetched options are atmospheric D'Qar/Starkiller Base. I still want bombers for the ST, though. Not having them is like playing GA in the ST without the Heavy class. And I really hate how the FO starfighters are both basically the same model-wise.

    As far as I know, the only thing added from the comics is Leia's default appearance, but I haven't read all of them to say for sure that none of the GA/SA scenarios are explored there. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to get stuff from there. Phasma has a really cool appearance that I would like added at some point.

    Anyways, my points is, there are options for new content, but I can patiently wait until the trilogy finished to start asking for things outside the movies if we at least get Infiltrators and CS for all eras (including OT). The ground phase of CS is too good to keep it locked for just one era.

    Those GA concepts sound amazing! I would love to have GA on the Colossus.

    Indeed, I haven't watched Resistance, but you caught my interest !
  • TheScape
    2236 posts Member
    SnakeMajin wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    Pretty sure that has already been said at least once, but tbh I really did not want to go through the 5 pages completely.

    ST trilogy has not as much content left to explore as other eras have. If you like the movies or not, there simply is not much to add to the current state tbh

    If we can have reinforcements coming from a TV show for one era, the ST is no different. We even have a tank that hasn't appeared anywhere else in terms of canon. So, again, there is content left to explore from outside the movies (at least a couple of SA scenarios and what I would consider a cool GA one), but I don't mind waiting until episode IX for new content.

    There is no excuse to not port the GA maps to CS, Extraction, HvV or Strike (I am thinking about Crait for the last two). There is also no excuse to not try to create an Infiltrator for that era either (there are FO special forces and we could have Resistance pilots as spies). The only valid excuse for these two things is the lack of resources.

    I agree with you on that to a certain point, but what other than the movies for ST content do exist except comics (which I have not seen being adapted in BF2 yet)? I think there is one TV show regarding ST, but this also does not have many more planets, locations, all out warfare scenarios, special units and stuff, or am I wrong there? idk...

    I do not want to say there is "more relevant" content that could be added to the game, especially with regards to the fact that there are so many unused assets from SWBF2015 for OT era, that could be easily used to create new maps and locations. But there are simply benefits to serve OT and PT and at the very last, after Ep.9 new ST things, when there is more for the complete BF audience to rely to. When it comes to Series and Movies, I think much more people recognize and see such things (due to trailers and stuff) other than comics and books, which are nowadays lesser seen in advertisments.

    Yes, I would also like to see more of the existing maps compatible with more modes in this games and maybe across some eras too, but guess Devs have distanced themselves from these ideas

    The GA scenario I was thinking about is the season finale from the TV show. If you are interested in the show, this could be an spoiler, but basically the First Order wants to take control of the Colossus station (planet Castilon) while the "Resistance" tries to get the station operational as a vertical capital ship. So, basically, it would be similar to Death Star II (hacking objectives), but with a lot of verticality since you would be trying to get to the controls in the depths of the station. The cool thing about the station is that is also submerged, so you could have areas where you see the water through the windows (similar to Bioshock). If the FO wins, the Resistance gets arrested, but if the Resistance wins the station emerges and goes to hyperspace. We could also have an scenario that plays like Death Star inside Snoke's Star Destroyer. But, as I said, I wouldn't push for something like that. I would rather wait for episode 9, to see what they give us from there, first.

    In terms of SA I know that Poe has some skirmishes on his comic book (I have only read the first volume, but I have looked over the arcs), but you could have an atmospheric fight on Castilon, too. The other more far-fetched options are atmospheric D'Qar/Starkiller Base. I still want bombers for the ST, though. Not having them is like playing GA in the ST without the Heavy class. And I really hate how the FO starfighters are both basically the same model-wise.

    As far as I know, the only thing added from the comics is Leia's default appearance, but I haven't read all of them to say for sure that none of the GA/SA scenarios are explored there. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to get stuff from there. Phasma has a really cool appearance that I would like added at some point.

    Anyways, my points is, there are options for new content, but I can patiently wait until the trilogy finished to start asking for things outside the movies if we at least get Infiltrators and CS for all eras (including OT). The ground phase of CS is too good to keep it locked for just one era.

    Those GA concepts sound amazing! I would love to have GA on the Colossus.

    Indeed, I haven't watched Resistance, but you caught my interest !

    To be fair, most of the episodes are mediocre and part of the cast is insufferable (Neeku and Kazuda at times), but there are interesting arcs (mostly the ones with Poe or Yeager), some interesting characters (Yeager, Tam, Pyre, Doza or Tierny) and the finale was great. It even tied into TFA in a good way, giving some background on the construction of Starkiller Base and Hux's TFA speech broadcast before the destruction of the New Republic. Season 2 should be better thanks to the ending of season 1. Keep in mind that it is also quite kid-friendly at the start (like Rebels or The Clone Wars).
    May your heart be your guiding key.
  • TheScape wrote: »
    SnakeMajin wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    Pretty sure that has already been said at least once, but tbh I really did not want to go through the 5 pages completely.

    ST trilogy has not as much content left to explore as other eras have. If you like the movies or not, there simply is not much to add to the current state tbh

    If we can have reinforcements coming from a TV show for one era, the ST is no different. We even have a tank that hasn't appeared anywhere else in terms of canon. So, again, there is content left to explore from outside the movies (at least a couple of SA scenarios and what I would consider a cool GA one), but I don't mind waiting until episode IX for new content.

    There is no excuse to not port the GA maps to CS, Extraction, HvV or Strike (I am thinking about Crait for the last two). There is also no excuse to not try to create an Infiltrator for that era either (there are FO special forces and we could have Resistance pilots as spies). The only valid excuse for these two things is the lack of resources.

    I agree with you on that to a certain point, but what other than the movies for ST content do exist except comics (which I have not seen being adapted in BF2 yet)? I think there is one TV show regarding ST, but this also does not have many more planets, locations, all out warfare scenarios, special units and stuff, or am I wrong there? idk...

    I do not want to say there is "more relevant" content that could be added to the game, especially with regards to the fact that there are so many unused assets from SWBF2015 for OT era, that could be easily used to create new maps and locations. But there are simply benefits to serve OT and PT and at the very last, after Ep.9 new ST things, when there is more for the complete BF audience to rely to. When it comes to Series and Movies, I think much more people recognize and see such things (due to trailers and stuff) other than comics and books, which are nowadays lesser seen in advertisments.

    Yes, I would also like to see more of the existing maps compatible with more modes in this games and maybe across some eras too, but guess Devs have distanced themselves from these ideas

    The GA scenario I was thinking about is the season finale from the TV show. If you are interested in the show, this could be an spoiler, but basically the First Order wants to take control of the Colossus station (planet Castilon) while the "Resistance" tries to get the station operational as a vertical capital ship. So, basically, it would be similar to Death Star II (hacking objectives), but with a lot of verticality since you would be trying to get to the controls in the depths of the station. The cool thing about the station is that is also submerged, so you could have areas where you see the water through the windows (similar to Bioshock). If the FO wins, the Resistance gets arrested, but if the Resistance wins the station emerges and goes to hyperspace. We could also have an scenario that plays like Death Star inside Snoke's Star Destroyer. But, as I said, I wouldn't push for something like that. I would rather wait for episode 9, to see what they give us from there, first.

    In terms of SA I know that Poe has some skirmishes on his comic book (I have only read the first volume, but I have looked over the arcs), but you could have an atmospheric fight on Castilon, too. The other more far-fetched options are atmospheric D'Qar/Starkiller Base. I still want bombers for the ST, though. Not having them is like playing GA in the ST without the Heavy class. And I really hate how the FO starfighters are both basically the same model-wise.

    As far as I know, the only thing added from the comics is Leia's default appearance, but I haven't read all of them to say for sure that none of the GA/SA scenarios are explored there. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to get stuff from there. Phasma has a really cool appearance that I would like added at some point.

    Anyways, my points is, there are options for new content, but I can patiently wait until the trilogy finished to start asking for things outside the movies if we at least get Infiltrators and CS for all eras (including OT). The ground phase of CS is too good to keep it locked for just one era.

    Those GA concepts sound amazing! I would love to have GA on the Colossus.

    Indeed, I haven't watched Resistance, but you caught my interest !

    To be fair, most of the episodes are mediocre and part of the cast is insufferable (Neeku and Kazuda at times), but there are interesting arcs (mostly the ones with Poe or Yeager), some interesting characters (Yeager, Tam, Pyre, Doza or Tierny) and the finale was great. It even tied into TFA in a good way, giving some background on the construction of Starkiller Base and Hux's TFA speech broadcast before the destruction of the New Republic. Season 2 should be better thanks to the ending of season 1. Keep in mind that it is also quite kid-friendly at the start (like Rebels or The Clone Wars).

    Yeah, it’s mostly pretty meh or annoying, but it has its interesting bits. I hope Season 2 is better. All animated Star Wars shows are rough around the edges for the first couple of seasons. Hopefully, Resistance should get better.
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • Hop off my post with y’all sequel bashing it’s not welcomed here
  • UrbanGlitch
    3209 posts Member
    Hop off my post with y’all sequel bashing it’s not welcomed here

    No
  • Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....
  • Cane_danko
    1247 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?
  • Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    Luke flew his T-61 Skyhopper, which had almost exactly the same controls as the X Wing. That's why he could fly so well. Also, I don't think he singlehandedly won the battle. He destroyed the Death Star, but without Han, he'dve been dead. Also, his aim is as bad as mine on the XBox when he's on the Death Star, so I wouldn't say he's killing troopers left and right.
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • JadeRaptor64
    1800 posts Member
    edited July 2
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • Cane_danko
    1247 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    Ok. I don’t agree with that assessment but it is your prerogative to see it that way.
  • lowell
    1301 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.
  • Hop off my post with y’all sequel bashing it’s not welcomed here

    No

    Get a hobby or something y’all got too much time on your hands
  • Alex64
    7647 posts Member
    If she's a mary sue or not who cares? For me she's mary sue and i don't care,and anyone else is free to hate her but i think that everyone, me included, got the right to love her as character
    The kind mixed with the wicked, the will to fight until the end, I'm not your enemy or friend.
  • Cane_danko
    1247 posts Member
    Alex64 wrote: »
    If she's a mary sue or not who cares? For me she's mary sue and i don't care,and anyone else is free to hate her but i think that everyone, me included, got the right to love her as character

    I care.
  • Alex64
    7647 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Alex64 wrote: »
    If she's a mary sue or not who cares? For me she's mary sue and i don't care,and anyone else is free to hate her but i think that everyone, me included, got the right to love her as character

    I care.

    You care what? Explain
    The kind mixed with the wicked, the will to fight until the end, I'm not your enemy or friend.
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    If she's a mary sue or not who cares? For me she's mary sue and i don't care,and anyone else is free to hate her but i think that everyone, me included, got the right to love her as character

    What are you trying to say? I'm getting a lot of conflicting statements...
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • Alex64
    7647 posts Member
    Alex64 wrote: »
    If she's a mary sue or not who cares? For me she's mary sue and i don't care,and anyone else is free to hate her but i think that everyone, me included, got the right to love her as character

    What are you trying to say? I'm getting a lot of conflicting statements...

    I love JJ's Concept of Rey, he will fix her in the next episode.
    The kind mixed with the wicked, the will to fight until the end, I'm not your enemy or friend.
  • UrbanGlitch
    3209 posts Member
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber
  • Cane_danko
    1247 posts Member
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.
  • UrbanGlitch
    3209 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?
  • Cane_danko
    1247 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?

    At the end of tfa she learns to tap into the force to improve her combat abilities. At the end of the movie and kylo tells her she needs a teacher and he can show her the ways of the force. She concentrates then, as i interpreted it, she surged with the force and takes him by surprise, thus besting him. Makes sense that she would do this while fighting with the praetorian.
  • UrbanGlitch
    3209 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?

    At the end of tfa she learns to tap into the force to improve her combat abilities. At the end of the movie and kylo tells her she needs a teacher and he can show her the ways of the force. She concentrates then, as i interpreted it, she surged with the force and takes him by surprise, thus besting him. Makes sense that she would do this while fighting with the praetorian.

    But tapping into the force doesn’t suddenly mean you know how to use a certain weapon. Say for example, a whip, a very difficult weapon to master, tapping into the force won’t suddenly allow you to use the whip to its full effects like a master of the weapon would from years of experience
  • Could we stop discussing whether or not the ST makes sense or not? This will be a never ending story
  • Cane_danko
    1247 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?

    At the end of tfa she learns to tap into the force to improve her combat abilities. At the end of the movie and kylo tells her she needs a teacher and he can show her the ways of the force. She concentrates then, as i interpreted it, she surged with the force and takes him by surprise, thus besting him. Makes sense that she would do this while fighting with the praetorian.

    But tapping into the force doesn’t suddenly mean you know how to use a certain weapon. Say for example, a whip, a very difficult weapon to master, tapping into the force won’t suddenly allow you to use the whip to its full effects like a master of the weapon would from years of experience

    In a new hope, luke uses the force to shoot missles into the death star. That pretty much solidified it as a staple for the force. I dunno. Does not seem that much of a stress that a lightsaber, which is tied with the force with the kyber crystals, would be effected in a similar fashion.
  • UrbanGlitch
    3209 posts Member
    Could we stop discussing whether or not the ST makes sense or not? This will be a never ending story

    I’m trying to learn why things happen in the ST that to me, don’t make sense in hopes of maybe enjoying it a little more
  • UrbanGlitch
    3209 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?

    At the end of tfa she learns to tap into the force to improve her combat abilities. At the end of the movie and kylo tells her she needs a teacher and he can show her the ways of the force. She concentrates then, as i interpreted it, she surged with the force and takes him by surprise, thus besting him. Makes sense that she would do this while fighting with the praetorian.

    But tapping into the force doesn’t suddenly mean you know how to use a certain weapon. Say for example, a whip, a very difficult weapon to master, tapping into the force won’t suddenly allow you to use the whip to its full effects like a master of the weapon would from years of experience

    In a new hope, luke uses the force to shoot missles into the death star. That pretty much solidified it as a staple for the force. I dunno. Does not seem that much of a stress that a lightsaber, which is tied with the force with the kyber crystals, would be effected in a similar fashion.

    But like had prior experience with shooting whilst flying, so it wasn’t as if he was learning something new. He also had Obi-Wan to help guide him, especially back on the Millennium Falcon in which Obi-Wan told him to trust his instincts when fighting the training remote, succeeding in the process. So Luke blowing up the Death Star was both experience and training in flying and lessons taught to him earlier using the same principle of trusting your instincts
  • EA_Rtas
    1165 posts EA Moderator
    Alright let's cool this down, these "Rey is a Mary sue" arguments are wearing a bit thin.
  • EA_Rtas wrote: »
    Alright let's cool this down, these "Rey is a Mary sue" arguments are wearing a bit thin.

    Cool everything down the whole point of this post was to get st content anything else is irrelevant
  • TheScape
    2236 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?

    As another point of view, if she has trained with the staff, she also had melee combat training. The Praetorian Guards use different melee weapons and none of them are lightsabers. A lightsaber is also way lighter than that staff, so she should be able to swing it around better if she could already do that with her old weapon. I don't think it is too far-fetched in that scenario. Not to mention... She isn't fighting alone. Kylo is there by her side during the whole fight.

    In the case of Kylo, first of all, he is hurt at that point. Finn can even stall him for a little. He also seems to be playing with Rey to see what she can do. Finally, Rey seems to be funneling her rage and we already saw how that helped Luke "beat" Vader in episode VI even though he is nowhere close to Vader's power:

    May your heart be your guiding key.
  • lowell
    1301 posts Member
    edited July 3
    TheScape wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?

    As another point of view, if she has trained with the staff, she also had melee combat training. The Praetorian Guards use different melee weapons and none of them are lightsabers. A lightsaber is also way lighter than that staff, so she should be able to swing it around better if she could already do that with her old weapon. I don't think it is too far-fetched in that scenario. Not to mention... She isn't fighting alone. Kylo is there by her side during the whole fight.

    In the case of Kylo, first of all, he is hurt at that point. Finn can even stall him for a little. He also seems to be playing with Rey to see what she can do. Finally, Rey seems to be funneling her rage and we already saw how that helped Luke "beat" Vader in episode VI even though he is nowhere close to Vader's power:


    This is one of the reasons why I believe the Rey-Kylo relationship is not similar to Anakin & Padme or even Han & Leia but it's similar to Luke & Vader or in Legends, Jacen & Jaina. They likely have some connection in addition to the Force that's not revealed yet until TROS and I've been processing that for the ST so far, family is still a big theme in Star Wars over romance.

    If we ever need something to point towards romance in the ST, there's more evidence of it between Finn & Rey, particularly in TFA (Finn & Rose might've gotten somewhere between TLJ and TROS and could've ended up just being friends if it didn't work out). The chemistry between Finn & Rey started when they were on the run from the First Order on Jakku and spread further when Finn decided to go rescue her on Starkiller Base and somewhat on Crait when they reunited. Even Finn decided to fight Kylo to protect her from his wrath before she was able to use the lightsaber at her own will (basically sacrificing himself).
  • Cane_danko
    1247 posts Member
    lowell wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?

    As another point of view, if she has trained with the staff, she also had melee combat training. The Praetorian Guards use different melee weapons and none of them are lightsabers. A lightsaber is also way lighter than that staff, so she should be able to swing it around better if she could already do that with her old weapon. I don't think it is too far-fetched in that scenario. Not to mention... She isn't fighting alone. Kylo is there by her side during the whole fight.

    In the case of Kylo, first of all, he is hurt at that point. Finn can even stall him for a little. He also seems to be playing with Rey to see what she can do. Finally, Rey seems to be funneling her rage and we already saw how that helped Luke "beat" Vader in episode VI even though he is nowhere close to Vader's power:


    This is one of the reasons why I believe the Rey-Kylo relationship is not similar to Anakin & Padme or even Han & Leia but it's similar to Luke & Vader or in Legends, Jacen & Jaina. They likely have some connection in addition to the Force that's not revealed yet until TROS and I've been processing that for the ST so far, family is still a big theme in Star Wars over romance.

    If we ever need something to point towards romance in the ST, there's more evidence of it between Finn & Rey, particularly in TFA (Finn & Rose might've gotten somewhere between TLJ and TROS and could've ended up just being friends if it didn't work out). The chemistry between Finn & Rey started when they were on the run from the First Order on Jakku and spread further when Finn decided to go rescue her on Starkiller Base and somewhat on Crait when they reunited.

    I always felt finn/rey was one sided. Finn loves her but she has never shown any interest in a romantic relationship with him or anyone for that matter. With kylo i think she has empathy after she touched his hand and glimpsed his future. It is ambiguous but my interpretation was that she could feel all the conflict in him similar to what luke felt with vader. I think kylo feels he is doing right and rey can feel the pain that killing han caused him.
  • lowell
    1301 posts Member
    edited July 3
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?

    As another point of view, if she has trained with the staff, she also had melee combat training. The Praetorian Guards use different melee weapons and none of them are lightsabers. A lightsaber is also way lighter than that staff, so she should be able to swing it around better if she could already do that with her old weapon. I don't think it is too far-fetched in that scenario. Not to mention... She isn't fighting alone. Kylo is there by her side during the whole fight.

    In the case of Kylo, first of all, he is hurt at that point. Finn can even stall him for a little. He also seems to be playing with Rey to see what she can do. Finally, Rey seems to be funneling her rage and we already saw how that helped Luke "beat" Vader in episode VI even though he is nowhere close to Vader's power:


    This is one of the reasons why I believe the Rey-Kylo relationship is not similar to Anakin & Padme or even Han & Leia but it's similar to Luke & Vader or in Legends, Jacen & Jaina. They likely have some connection in addition to the Force that's not revealed yet until TROS and I've been processing that for the ST so far, family is still a big theme in Star Wars over romance.

    If we ever need something to point towards romance in the ST, there's more evidence of it between Finn & Rey, particularly in TFA (Finn & Rose might've gotten somewhere between TLJ and TROS and could've ended up just being friends if it didn't work out). The chemistry between Finn & Rey started when they were on the run from the First Order on Jakku and spread further when Finn decided to go rescue her on Starkiller Base and somewhat on Crait when they reunited.

    I always felt finn/rey was one sided. Finn loves her but she has never shown any interest in a romantic relationship with him or anyone for that matter. With kylo i think she has empathy after she touched his hand and glimpsed his future. It is ambiguous but my interpretation was that she could feel all the conflict in him similar to what luke felt with vader. I think kylo feels he is doing right and rey can feel the pain that killing han caused him.

    Since TROS is literally The Rise of Skywalker, even I feel that for the ST films, the focus is still over family over romance due to the 9 films being regarded entirely as the Skywalker Saga, which is basically a long story about a Force-sensitive bloodline in a GFFA. TLJ kind of skipped over the focus of family but since TFA hinted at least partially on it, TROS might just wrap the whole focus up even though it's still a conflict between both sides of the Force and the two factions.

    It wouldn't surprised me if Rey and Kylo are related somehow (not directly as siblings, but maybe lost cousins).
  • Cane_danko
    1247 posts Member
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?

    As another point of view, if she has trained with the staff, she also had melee combat training. The Praetorian Guards use different melee weapons and none of them are lightsabers. A lightsaber is also way lighter than that staff, so she should be able to swing it around better if she could already do that with her old weapon. I don't think it is too far-fetched in that scenario. Not to mention... She isn't fighting alone. Kylo is there by her side during the whole fight.

    In the case of Kylo, first of all, he is hurt at that point. Finn can even stall him for a little. He also seems to be playing with Rey to see what she can do. Finally, Rey seems to be funneling her rage and we already saw how that helped Luke "beat" Vader in episode VI even though he is nowhere close to Vader's power:


    This is one of the reasons why I believe the Rey-Kylo relationship is not similar to Anakin & Padme or even Han & Leia but it's similar to Luke & Vader or in Legends, Jacen & Jaina. They likely have some connection in addition to the Force that's not revealed yet until TROS and I've been processing that for the ST so far, family is still a big theme in Star Wars over romance.

    If we ever need something to point towards romance in the ST, there's more evidence of it between Finn & Rey, particularly in TFA (Finn & Rose might've gotten somewhere between TLJ and TROS and could've ended up just being friends if it didn't work out). The chemistry between Finn & Rey started when they were on the run from the First Order on Jakku and spread further when Finn decided to go rescue her on Starkiller Base and somewhat on Crait when they reunited.

    I always felt finn/rey was one sided. Finn loves her but she has never shown any interest in a romantic relationship with him or anyone for that matter. With kylo i think she has empathy after she touched his hand and glimpsed his future. It is ambiguous but my interpretation was that she could feel all the conflict in him similar to what luke felt with vader. I think kylo feels he is doing right and rey can feel the pain that killing han caused him.

    Since TROS is literally The Rise of Skywalker, even I feel that for the ST films, the focus is still over family over romance due to the 9 films being regarded entirely as the Skywalker Saga, which is basically a long story about a Force-sensitive bloodline in a GFFA. TLJ kind of skipped over the focus of family but since TFA hinted at least partially on it, TROS might just wrap the whole focus up even though it's still a conflict between both sides of the Force and the two factions.

    It wouldn't surprised me if Rey and Kylo are related somehow (not directly as siblings, but maybe lost cousins).

    It’s possible. I am not really interested in the romance aspect of reylo. I do love how kylo is drawn to rey especially in tlj. He has seemed pretty isolated since joining the first order. I am not sure about his relationship with the knights of ren but rey seems to be the only person he has found he can relate to which i find really cool.
  • lowell
    1301 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?

    As another point of view, if she has trained with the staff, she also had melee combat training. The Praetorian Guards use different melee weapons and none of them are lightsabers. A lightsaber is also way lighter than that staff, so she should be able to swing it around better if she could already do that with her old weapon. I don't think it is too far-fetched in that scenario. Not to mention... She isn't fighting alone. Kylo is there by her side during the whole fight.

    In the case of Kylo, first of all, he is hurt at that point. Finn can even stall him for a little. He also seems to be playing with Rey to see what she can do. Finally, Rey seems to be funneling her rage and we already saw how that helped Luke "beat" Vader in episode VI even though he is nowhere close to Vader's power:


    This is one of the reasons why I believe the Rey-Kylo relationship is not similar to Anakin & Padme or even Han & Leia but it's similar to Luke & Vader or in Legends, Jacen & Jaina. They likely have some connection in addition to the Force that's not revealed yet until TROS and I've been processing that for the ST so far, family is still a big theme in Star Wars over romance.

    If we ever need something to point towards romance in the ST, there's more evidence of it between Finn & Rey, particularly in TFA (Finn & Rose might've gotten somewhere between TLJ and TROS and could've ended up just being friends if it didn't work out). The chemistry between Finn & Rey started when they were on the run from the First Order on Jakku and spread further when Finn decided to go rescue her on Starkiller Base and somewhat on Crait when they reunited.

    I always felt finn/rey was one sided. Finn loves her but she has never shown any interest in a romantic relationship with him or anyone for that matter. With kylo i think she has empathy after she touched his hand and glimpsed his future. It is ambiguous but my interpretation was that she could feel all the conflict in him similar to what luke felt with vader. I think kylo feels he is doing right and rey can feel the pain that killing han caused him.

    Since TROS is literally The Rise of Skywalker, even I feel that for the ST films, the focus is still over family over romance due to the 9 films being regarded entirely as the Skywalker Saga, which is basically a long story about a Force-sensitive bloodline in a GFFA. TLJ kind of skipped over the focus of family but since TFA hinted at least partially on it, TROS might just wrap the whole focus up even though it's still a conflict between both sides of the Force and the two factions.

    It wouldn't surprised me if Rey and Kylo are related somehow (not directly as siblings, but maybe lost cousins).

    It’s possible. I am not really interested in the romance aspect of reylo. I do love how kylo is drawn to rey especially in tlj. He has seemed pretty isolated since joining the first order. I am not sure about his relationship with the knights of ren but rey seems to be the only person he has found he can relate to which i find really cool.

    I mean, when Kylo asked Rey to join him, it's similar to the Bespin duel where Vader does the same thing with Luke. I didn't exactly see the romance side of it until the movement for that ramped up (still not in support of that).

    I am still curious about Hux because after Kylo was unconscious, he was likely reaching for his blaster and kill Kylo. Still wondering if he and Pryde are planning a coup against Kylo for control of the First Order in TROS.
  • Cane_danko
    1247 posts Member
    Hux and kylo have always been at odds. It seems pretty logical that hux will try to get rid of kylo the first chance he gets.
  • TheScape
    2236 posts Member
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?

    As another point of view, if she has trained with the staff, she also had melee combat training. The Praetorian Guards use different melee weapons and none of them are lightsabers. A lightsaber is also way lighter than that staff, so she should be able to swing it around better if she could already do that with her old weapon. I don't think it is too far-fetched in that scenario. Not to mention... She isn't fighting alone. Kylo is there by her side during the whole fight.

    In the case of Kylo, first of all, he is hurt at that point. Finn can even stall him for a little. He also seems to be playing with Rey to see what she can do. Finally, Rey seems to be funneling her rage and we already saw how that helped Luke "beat" Vader in episode VI even though he is nowhere close to Vader's power:


    This is one of the reasons why I believe the Rey-Kylo relationship is not similar to Anakin & Padme or even Han & Leia but it's similar to Luke & Vader or in Legends, Jacen & Jaina. They likely have some connection in addition to the Force that's not revealed yet until TROS and I've been processing that for the ST so far, family is still a big theme in Star Wars over romance.

    If we ever need something to point towards romance in the ST, there's more evidence of it between Finn & Rey, particularly in TFA (Finn & Rose might've gotten somewhere between TLJ and TROS and could've ended up just being friends if it didn't work out). The chemistry between Finn & Rey started when they were on the run from the First Order on Jakku and spread further when Finn decided to go rescue her on Starkiller Base and somewhat on Crait when they reunited.

    I always felt finn/rey was one sided. Finn loves her but she has never shown any interest in a romantic relationship with him or anyone for that matter. With kylo i think she has empathy after she touched his hand and glimpsed his future. It is ambiguous but my interpretation was that she could feel all the conflict in him similar to what luke felt with vader. I think kylo feels he is doing right and rey can feel the pain that killing han caused him.

    Since TROS is literally The Rise of Skywalker, even I feel that for the ST films, the focus is still over family over romance due to the 9 films being regarded entirely as the Skywalker Saga, which is basically a long story about a Force-sensitive bloodline in a GFFA. TLJ kind of skipped over the focus of family but since TFA hinted at least partially on it, TROS might just wrap the whole focus up even though it's still a conflict between both sides of the Force and the two factions.

    It wouldn't surprised me if Rey and Kylo are related somehow (not directly as siblings, but maybe lost cousins).

    It’s possible. I am not really interested in the romance aspect of reylo. I do love how kylo is drawn to rey especially in tlj. He has seemed pretty isolated since joining the first order. I am not sure about his relationship with the knights of ren but rey seems to be the only person he has found he can relate to which i find really cool.

    I mean, when Kylo asked Rey to join him, it's similar to the Bespin duel where Vader does the same thing with Luke. I didn't exactly see the romance side of it until the movement for that ramped up (still not in support of that).

    I am still curious about Hux because after Kylo was unconscious, he was likely reaching for his blaster and kill Kylo. Still wondering if he and Pryde are planning a coup against Kylo for control of the First Order in TROS.

    I feel like we will see part of the internal conflict inside the First Order. After all, if I am not mistaken, Kylo is not really military. He was part of the group because Snoke wanted him there. So, there is probably some friction between him and high ranking officers (that includes Hux and Pryde, of course).
    May your heart be your guiding key.
  • Cane_danko
    1247 posts Member
    Kylo had the same role as vader did in the empire. He is a champion. He doesn’t fit into the hierarchy. In tlj novel this really upset hux who doesn’t see the need at all for kylo and is super fanatical about military structure.
  • lowell
    1301 posts Member
    TheScape wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?

    As another point of view, if she has trained with the staff, she also had melee combat training. The Praetorian Guards use different melee weapons and none of them are lightsabers. A lightsaber is also way lighter than that staff, so she should be able to swing it around better if she could already do that with her old weapon. I don't think it is too far-fetched in that scenario. Not to mention... She isn't fighting alone. Kylo is there by her side during the whole fight.

    In the case of Kylo, first of all, he is hurt at that point. Finn can even stall him for a little. He also seems to be playing with Rey to see what she can do. Finally, Rey seems to be funneling her rage and we already saw how that helped Luke "beat" Vader in episode VI even though he is nowhere close to Vader's power:


    This is one of the reasons why I believe the Rey-Kylo relationship is not similar to Anakin & Padme or even Han & Leia but it's similar to Luke & Vader or in Legends, Jacen & Jaina. They likely have some connection in addition to the Force that's not revealed yet until TROS and I've been processing that for the ST so far, family is still a big theme in Star Wars over romance.

    If we ever need something to point towards romance in the ST, there's more evidence of it between Finn & Rey, particularly in TFA (Finn & Rose might've gotten somewhere between TLJ and TROS and could've ended up just being friends if it didn't work out). The chemistry between Finn & Rey started when they were on the run from the First Order on Jakku and spread further when Finn decided to go rescue her on Starkiller Base and somewhat on Crait when they reunited.

    I always felt finn/rey was one sided. Finn loves her but she has never shown any interest in a romantic relationship with him or anyone for that matter. With kylo i think she has empathy after she touched his hand and glimpsed his future. It is ambiguous but my interpretation was that she could feel all the conflict in him similar to what luke felt with vader. I think kylo feels he is doing right and rey can feel the pain that killing han caused him.

    Since TROS is literally The Rise of Skywalker, even I feel that for the ST films, the focus is still over family over romance due to the 9 films being regarded entirely as the Skywalker Saga, which is basically a long story about a Force-sensitive bloodline in a GFFA. TLJ kind of skipped over the focus of family but since TFA hinted at least partially on it, TROS might just wrap the whole focus up even though it's still a conflict between both sides of the Force and the two factions.

    It wouldn't surprised me if Rey and Kylo are related somehow (not directly as siblings, but maybe lost cousins).

    It’s possible. I am not really interested in the romance aspect of reylo. I do love how kylo is drawn to rey especially in tlj. He has seemed pretty isolated since joining the first order. I am not sure about his relationship with the knights of ren but rey seems to be the only person he has found he can relate to which i find really cool.

    I mean, when Kylo asked Rey to join him, it's similar to the Bespin duel where Vader does the same thing with Luke. I didn't exactly see the romance side of it until the movement for that ramped up (still not in support of that).

    I am still curious about Hux because after Kylo was unconscious, he was likely reaching for his blaster and kill Kylo. Still wondering if he and Pryde are planning a coup against Kylo for control of the First Order in TROS.

    I feel like we will see part of the internal conflict inside the First Order. After all, if I am not mistaken, Kylo is not really military. He was part of the group because Snoke wanted him there. So, there is probably some friction between him and high ranking officers (that includes Hux and Pryde, of course).

    It seems like Hux falsified information to roll out all over the fleet and he's not liking being at Kylo's beck and call and addressing him as the new Supreme Leader (this is why an internal coup is likely to happen in TROS):

    RCO018.jpg

    RCO019.jpg

    There was also rumors that Finn might be able to get his former friends in the Stormtrooper Corps to start a rebellion inside the First Order also in TROS but that's still unconfirmed.
  • TheScape
    2236 posts Member
    lowell wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?

    As another point of view, if she has trained with the staff, she also had melee combat training. The Praetorian Guards use different melee weapons and none of them are lightsabers. A lightsaber is also way lighter than that staff, so she should be able to swing it around better if she could already do that with her old weapon. I don't think it is too far-fetched in that scenario. Not to mention... She isn't fighting alone. Kylo is there by her side during the whole fight.

    In the case of Kylo, first of all, he is hurt at that point. Finn can even stall him for a little. He also seems to be playing with Rey to see what she can do. Finally, Rey seems to be funneling her rage and we already saw how that helped Luke "beat" Vader in episode VI even though he is nowhere close to Vader's power:


    This is one of the reasons why I believe the Rey-Kylo relationship is not similar to Anakin & Padme or even Han & Leia but it's similar to Luke & Vader or in Legends, Jacen & Jaina. They likely have some connection in addition to the Force that's not revealed yet until TROS and I've been processing that for the ST so far, family is still a big theme in Star Wars over romance.

    If we ever need something to point towards romance in the ST, there's more evidence of it between Finn & Rey, particularly in TFA (Finn & Rose might've gotten somewhere between TLJ and TROS and could've ended up just being friends if it didn't work out). The chemistry between Finn & Rey started when they were on the run from the First Order on Jakku and spread further when Finn decided to go rescue her on Starkiller Base and somewhat on Crait when they reunited.

    I always felt finn/rey was one sided. Finn loves her but she has never shown any interest in a romantic relationship with him or anyone for that matter. With kylo i think she has empathy after she touched his hand and glimpsed his future. It is ambiguous but my interpretation was that she could feel all the conflict in him similar to what luke felt with vader. I think kylo feels he is doing right and rey can feel the pain that killing han caused him.

    Since TROS is literally The Rise of Skywalker, even I feel that for the ST films, the focus is still over family over romance due to the 9 films being regarded entirely as the Skywalker Saga, which is basically a long story about a Force-sensitive bloodline in a GFFA. TLJ kind of skipped over the focus of family but since TFA hinted at least partially on it, TROS might just wrap the whole focus up even though it's still a conflict between both sides of the Force and the two factions.

    It wouldn't surprised me if Rey and Kylo are related somehow (not directly as siblings, but maybe lost cousins).

    It’s possible. I am not really interested in the romance aspect of reylo. I do love how kylo is drawn to rey especially in tlj. He has seemed pretty isolated since joining the first order. I am not sure about his relationship with the knights of ren but rey seems to be the only person he has found he can relate to which i find really cool.

    I mean, when Kylo asked Rey to join him, it's similar to the Bespin duel where Vader does the same thing with Luke. I didn't exactly see the romance side of it until the movement for that ramped up (still not in support of that).

    I am still curious about Hux because after Kylo was unconscious, he was likely reaching for his blaster and kill Kylo. Still wondering if he and Pryde are planning a coup against Kylo for control of the First Order in TROS.

    I feel like we will see part of the internal conflict inside the First Order. After all, if I am not mistaken, Kylo is not really military. He was part of the group because Snoke wanted him there. So, there is probably some friction between him and high ranking officers (that includes Hux and Pryde, of course).

    It seems like Hux falsified information to roll out all over the fleet and he's not liking being at Kylo's beck and call and addressing him as the new Supreme Leader (this is why an internal coup is likely to happen in TROS):

    RCO018.jpg

    RCO019.jpg

    There was also rumors that Finn might be able to get his former friends in the Stormtrooper Corps to start a rebellion inside the First Order also in TROS but that's still unconfirmed.

    That would actually be great. One thing I wanted after the OT is seeing the fall of the Empire, but sadly we never got that on a movie format and it was left to be explored in other formats. But, having part of the fall of the First Order in movie format would be a great substitute.
    May your heart be your guiding key.
  • lowell
    1301 posts Member
    TheScape wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    TheScape wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    lowell wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Willing to bet st fans have had way more ad hominems thrown at us over the course of tfa and tlj. People like to talk smack to get their point across. Star wars fans are toxic nerds. The ones who aren’t rarely visit forums or when they do it is usually where they have like minded people. We can point the finger and judge each other or we can realize there just isn’t a lot of room for differing opinions in this franchise. You claim people criticize because they want star wars to be better. I criticize fans because i want them to be better. It is not likely to happen but that is the fandom in which we find ourselves. And while there have been a few criticisms i have found to be valid like lack of world building it is far outweighed by criticisms i find to be daft and exacerbated by two but youtubers who have capitalized off all this controversy. If everyone loved the st then the conversations around them would be rather dull and people would not commit so much of their time letting the world know their own point of view as it would just be the same as everyone else’s.

    So what’s your point?

    That you come at me then i am coming right back you brother.

    Edit: as a side note, for people like @JadeRaptor64 who can formulate their criticisms into concise thoughts and deliver it without the need to be petty and toxic, i have a lot of respect for their criticisms and points. Even to people who are less articulate and can simply say they don’t like the movies much without turning it into some kind of personal attack on them i also have a lot of respect for their opinions. What i don’t have respect for, and this varies in degree as to the level and nature of the toxicity, is when people act like that the rest of us need to bow to your opinion. It is not constructive and really has no use outside of building up one’s own ego. I just want to be clear as why i treat you mary sue crowd in such a way that some people may find unbecoming. I know you don’t care as much as i don’t care. This is more directed at people who enjoy discussion and want to see the franchise move in a more positive direction.

    But I haven’t done any of that. I enjoy these discussions but only when people aren’t calling each other names or assuming their stance on the subject

    I am willing to start over and have a discussion. I must say that when i hear mary sue i tend to get triggered and nasty. Plot armor is fine but mary sue has so much extra connotation now that i just can’t stand it.

    So, starting fresh. Why aren’t you a fan of the term Mary Sue, if though/if it’s a legitimate term that actually describes Rey perfectly?

    It was originally meant as someone who has skills that are convenient for the story without actually having any sort of training in regards to what she has done. This comes from star trek were it is more applicable. Meaning a doctor would not be able to just do an amazing feat with the transporter without some explanation. The problem for me is with rey, people throw it out there as a way to say her character sucks. If you want to bring plot armor into the mix i just think we need to apply it to both anakin and luke. Anakin was driving pod racers as a kid even though it was impossible for humans. Not only that, he piloted a naboo star fighter in a major battle without even knowing what one looks like prior to it. Not only that he blows up the entire droid space station with barely any problem at all. Luke had similar situation as he is a farm boy who kills womp rats then goes to the death star and murdering stormtroopers left and right. Then he is able to pilot an xwing and pretty much single handedly win the battle for the rebels. These things do not bother me because it is star wars. These stories are meant to be fun before some super serious manuscript. My problem is people want to just lay into ray so hard while ignoring that this is a tradition in star wars.

    I think the problem is that Rey doesn’t have reasons behind her skill (currently), it’s just there. Whilst with Anakin, his piloting skills came from being a pod racer which in turn came from being highly attuned to the force. And with Luke, his piloting skills came from, well....piloting a Skyhopper shooting womp rats and again, being highly attuned to the force with guidance from a Jedi Master. However with Rey, her piloting skills came from....where?
    In regards to Luke “murdering Stormtroopers left and right” it is very obvious that he has never picked up a blaster before. I can’t remember which scene exactly, but there was a Stormtrooper only a couple meters ahead of him and he ended up shooting miles above the Stormtroopers head.....

    Rey mentioned that she flew before just never offworld. Another thing to consider, as with anakin and luke both, the force played a big part of how they were able to perform these feats. So, why is it that rey is not allowed this?

    The Millenium Falcon is designed to be flown with a co pilot. She flew it singlehandedly and did so extremely well for not ever flying such a ship. I would have no idea what I was doing if I was driving a stick shift cargo truck, which is what the Millenium Falcon is basically, since I drive a Honda Fit. Unless someone let Rey fly a Corellian cargo ship, I'd be wondering how she knows the ship so well...

    As for the Force... the Force had not yet awoken in Rey. She showed no signs of Force sensitivity or exceptional skill in piloting, the usual indications of a potential Force user, until Starkiller Base. And don't get me started on how or why that happens...

    She actually flew a Ghtroc 690 light freighter that she scavenged and repair and was going to sell in Before the Awakening until two other scavengers (who pretended to be her friends and helped her restore it) stole it and flew off without her.

    1000?cb=20181028182950

    Rey-vs.-The-Teedos.jpg

    She did have fighting experience with the quarterstaff during her scavenging days so that explains her moves with the lightsaber to an extent.

    As for the Force being awakened in her, did touching the Skywalker saber in Maz's Castle do anything to her overall besides just showing her visions? But the TFA documentary said that not only the Force awakened Rey but Kylo also, just when he murdered Han, the Dark Side opened itself more deeply to Kylo and anything before was mostly Kylo fighting inside himself between the Light Side and the Dark Side. I still don't know if that is right to say until we get to TROS.

    But where was this explained in the movies? I shouldn’t have to read outside material to understand the films. Also, as said many times before, being able to fight with a staff does not mean you will know how to use a Lightsaber

    I agree that they should explain things to a certain extent in the movies. I don’t think that justifies her being a mary sue. And having mastered quarterstaff combat i have to feel that it would translate to a lightsaber. She does not do anything so crazy with a lightsaber where i was like “whoa! How did she learn to do that??” She is no mace windu. She swings it around.

    Well if she just ‘swings it around’ why didn’t Kylo or the Praetorian Guards easily best her when they have extensive melee combat training?

    As another point of view, if she has trained with the staff, she also had melee combat training. The Praetorian Guards use different melee weapons and none of them are lightsabers. A lightsaber is also way lighter than that staff, so she should be able to swing it around better if she could already do that with her old weapon. I don't think it is too far-fetched in that scenario. Not to mention... She isn't fighting alone. Kylo is there by her side during the whole fight.

    In the case of Kylo, first of all, he is hurt at that point. Finn can even stall him for a little. He also seems to be playing with Rey to see what she can do. Finally, Rey seems to be funneling her rage and we already saw how that helped Luke "beat" Vader in episode VI even though he is nowhere close to Vader's power:


    This is one of the reasons why I believe the Rey-Kylo relationship is not similar to Anakin & Padme or even Han & Leia but it's similar to Luke & Vader or in Legends, Jacen & Jaina. They likely have some connection in addition to the Force that's not revealed yet until TROS and I've been processing that for the ST so far, family is still a big theme in Star Wars over romance.

    If we ever need something to point towards romance in the ST, there's more evidence of it between Finn & Rey, particularly in TFA (Finn & Rose might've gotten somewhere between TLJ and TROS and could've ended up just being friends if it didn't work out). The chemistry between Finn & Rey started when they were on the run from the First Order on Jakku and spread further when Finn decided to go rescue her on Starkiller Base and somewhat on Crait when they reunited.

    I always felt finn/rey was one sided. Finn loves her but she has never shown any interest in a romantic relationship with him or anyone for that matter. With kylo i think she has empathy after she touched his hand and glimpsed his future. It is ambiguous but my interpretation was that she could feel all the conflict in him similar to what luke felt with vader. I think kylo feels he is doing right and rey can feel the pain that killing han caused him.

    Since TROS is literally The Rise of Skywalker, even I feel that for the ST films, the focus is still over family over romance due to the 9 films being regarded entirely as the Skywalker Saga, which is basically a long story about a Force-sensitive bloodline in a GFFA. TLJ kind of skipped over the focus of family but since TFA hinted at least partially on it, TROS might just wrap the whole focus up even though it's still a conflict between both sides of the Force and the two factions.

    It wouldn't surprised me if Rey and Kylo are related somehow (not directly as siblings, but maybe lost cousins).

    It’s possible. I am not really interested in the romance aspect of reylo. I do love how kylo is drawn to rey especially in tlj. He has seemed pretty isolated since joining the first order. I am not sure about his relationship with the knights of ren but rey seems to be the only person he has found he can relate to which i find really cool.

    I mean, when Kylo asked Rey to join him, it's similar to the Bespin duel where Vader does the same thing with Luke. I didn't exactly see the romance side of it until the movement for that ramped up (still not in support of that).

    I am still curious about Hux because after Kylo was unconscious, he was likely reaching for his blaster and kill Kylo. Still wondering if he and Pryde are planning a coup against Kylo for control of the First Order in TROS.

    I feel like we will see part of the internal conflict inside the First Order. After all, if I am not mistaken, Kylo is not really military. He was part of the group because Snoke wanted him there. So, there is probably some friction between him and high ranking officers (that includes Hux and Pryde, of course).

    It seems like Hux falsified information to roll out all over the fleet and he's not liking being at Kylo's beck and call and addressing him as the new Supreme Leader (this is why an internal coup is likely to happen in TROS):

    RCO018.jpg

    RCO019.jpg

    There was also rumors that Finn might be able to get his former friends in the Stormtrooper Corps to start a rebellion inside the First Order also in TROS but that's still unconfirmed.

    That would actually be great. One thing I wanted after the OT is seeing the fall of the Empire, but sadly we never got that on a movie format and it was left to be explored in other formats. But, having part of the fall of the First Order in movie format would be a great substitute.

    I think if Resistance is going to end up colliding into TROS like they did with TFA and TCW is going to do with ROTS, we could see Kaz and the other characters participating in the final battle of TROS through their viewpoint in the show if we do see them make live-action cameos in the film first.

    Even though Rebels doesn't get near Rogue One's timeline, Resistance intersecting with TFA and eventually TLJ and likely TROS is resembling how TCW and ROTS are going to cross each other.

    It's like Agents of SHIELD getting near the events of each film like Age of Ultron, Civil War, & Infinity War except we can say all of the Star Wars canon is officially connected.

    Marvel's just behind us by a couple of years since there are still film rights at other studios where non-MCU Marvel films are still made and the divisions at Marvel are still separated under different leadership.
  • for my personal opinion star wars episode 7 8 and 9 suck big time.......for me there a poorly made fan fiction... made by a two year old........and are not cannon to the star wars universe...... but thats my opinion..... but for anyone else........ you can enjoy your rip off baby trilogy.
  • for my personal opinion star wars episode 7 8 and 9 suck big time.......for me there a poorly made fan fiction... made by a two year old........and are not cannon to the star wars universe...... but thats my opinion..... but for anyone else........ you can enjoy your rip off baby trilogy.

    I do not like it either, but this is quite unfriendly for people enjoying either it or its content in Battlefront 2, please stop talking like that. if you do not support it, simply do not make this thread bigger or say simply no I do not like it and would prefer other content.

    Let's not start arguments here, thanks :)
  • Cane_danko
    1247 posts Member
    for my personal opinion star wars episode 7 8 and 9 suck big time.......for me there a poorly made fan fiction... made by a two year old........and are not cannon to the star wars universe...... but thats my opinion..... but for anyone else........ you can enjoy your rip off baby trilogy.

    I do not like it either, but this is quite unfriendly for people enjoying either it or its content in Battlefront 2, please stop talking like that. if you do not support it, simply do not make this thread bigger or say simply no I do not like it and would prefer other content.

    Let's not start arguments here, thanks :)

    Thank you for sticking up for us even though you don’t like the films. /high five
  • UrbanGlitch
    3209 posts Member
    for my personal opinion star wars episode 7 8 and 9 suck big time.......for me there a poorly made fan fiction... made by a two year old........and are not cannon to the star wars universe...... but thats my opinion..... but for anyone else........ you can enjoy your rip off baby trilogy.

    Jeez man, calm it, everyone has opinions but don't be so rude about it. It's fine not to like it, but come on, no need to insult others
  • Let’s not act like the OT was perfect. Boarding the Death Star and rescuing leia on the MOST ADVANCED battle station ever and only losing an old man that wanted to die. No body was gonna stop them in the hanger? Or the attack on the Death Star, oh look we’re gonna blow up a rebel base, there’s no way they’ll come with a contest attack. Left the station wide open to attack and some xwings brought down something that was the scariest thing in the world. I get it was because of Jyns dad but you KNEW something was wrong with the station when they came to Scarif and all that talk about palaptinen knowing everything, just happen to not see that. Or on bespin, Vader has the best opportunity to kill Han and leai but intsead give Han to Jabba and Chewie and leai escape, who would’ve that they would get their friend back?!? Yea not Vader I guess. And I don’t want to talk about the fight scenes too much because they were ahead of their time and watching Luke fight a stand still Vader was hilarious, I mean they made Vader look like an old knight for the medical times with 0 mobility. In return of the Jedi, the greatest bounty hunter ever gets “killed” by a blind buys accident. Little fur balls with rocks and sticks hold the empire back for a decent amount of time THE EMPIRE. In the space fight, the empire did lay a trap, but then why wouldn’t you bring your while fleet there to support? You masterly got the rebel’s to bring THEIR whole fleet, why not being yours? I have a couple other gripes about the movies writing but let’s not act like they are without flaw. The PT is miles ahead of ST in my eyes. ST is just a mess
  • for my personal opinion star wars episode 7 8 and 9 suck big time.......for me there a poorly made fan fiction... made by a two year old........and are not cannon to the star wars universe...... but thats my opinion..... but for anyone else........ you can enjoy your rip off baby trilogy.

    Jeez man, calm it, everyone has opinions but don't be so rude about it. It's fine not to like it, but come on, no need to insult others

    im not insulting others im just stating my fact that to me the ST is a bad bad rip off of the original trilogy. i stated that it was my opinion...... and anyone who does like the ST have at it.... but i dislike the movies..... but thats my opinion.
  • UrbanGlitch
    3209 posts Member
    Let’s not act like the OT was perfect. Boarding the Death Star and rescuing leia on the MOST ADVANCED battle station ever and only losing an old man that wanted to die. No body was gonna stop them in the hanger? Or the attack on the Death Star, oh look we’re gonna blow up a rebel base, there’s no way they’ll come with a contest attack. Left the station wide open to attack and some xwings brought down something that was the scariest thing in the world. I get it was because of Jyns dad but you KNEW something was wrong with the station when they came to Scarif and all that talk about palaptinen knowing everything, just happen to not see that. Or on bespin, Vader has the best opportunity to kill Han and leai but intsead give Han to Jabba and Chewie and leai escape, who would’ve that they would get their friend back?!? Yea not Vader I guess. And I don’t want to talk about the fight scenes too much because they were ahead of their time and watching Luke fight a stand still Vader was hilarious, I mean they made Vader look like an old knight for the medical times with 0 mobility. In return of the Jedi, the greatest bounty hunter ever gets “killed” by a blind buys accident. Little fur balls with rocks and sticks hold the empire back for a decent amount of time THE EMPIRE. In the space fight, the empire did lay a trap, but then why wouldn’t you bring your while fleet there to support? You masterly got the rebel’s to bring THEIR whole fleet, why not being yours? I have a couple other gripes about the movies writing but let’s not act like they are without flaw. The PT is miles ahead of ST in my eyes. ST is just a mess

    No one has said the OT is perfect
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