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Palpatine to the rescue, can he save TLJ?

TheStalker88
6084 posts Member
edited April 13
I made a new thread on Palp, then I tried to edit it twice for spelling or grammar errors and now the thread has disappeared, waiting for approval? Why are these editing rules so lousy and backwards? Mods, make it stahp!

Replies

  • I can't even go back to the original thread, this duplicate one has erased it. I've wasted alot of time on my Palpatine post. Thanks alot EA employees.
  • I actually happened to read it before you edited ( couldn’t agree more about the editing... unprecedented), and sadly no, I don’t think Palpatine will save it for you. You seem to want some sort of retconning of TLJ (?), and JJ recently went out and said the obvious, that ep. IX will honor ep. VIII. There will be plot twists no doubt, RJ even said that he wants JJ to really surprise him, but the story of Luke on Ach-To is what will stand.

    Again, sorry you don’t see what I see.
  • I actually happened to read it before you edited ( couldn’t agree more about the editing... unprecedented), and sadly no, I don’t think Palpatine will save it for you. You seem to want some sort of retconning of TLJ (?), and JJ recently went out and said the obvious, that ep. IX will honor ep. VIII. There will be plot twists no doubt, RJ even said that he wants JJ to really surprise him, but the story of Luke on Ach-To is what will stand.

    Again, sorry you don’t see what I see.

    I'm seeing that JJ has the ability to retcon if he wants. He said he'll honor Episode VIII "but there's more to it than that." So I'm sensing a change. I am also hoping for said change.
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • I'd fire both JJ and RJ then. TLJ made a caricature out of Luke and OT even. There was Luke, he was heroic and a blind believer in saving his friends and his father until one day Kylo showed him that the dark side is too strong. Confronting Kylo directly was too much and too dangerous so he had to kill him in his sleep but he was too conflicted so he failed and fled, bearing great shame and self resentment. Yeah that narrative doesn't fly with many.


    Palpatine is the only thing that could save the movies by making Luke become his tool
  • I'd fire both JJ and RJ then. TLJ made a caricature out of Luke and OT even. There was Luke, he was heroic and a blind believer in saving his friends and his father until one day Kylo showed him that the dark side is too strong. Confronting Kylo directly was too much and too dangerous so he had to kill him in his sleep but he was too conflicted so he failed and fled, bearing great shame and self resentment. Yeah that narrative doesn't fly with many.


    Palpatine is the only thing that could save the movies by making Luke become his tool

    Also if Kylo is such an amazing villain, why are they bringing Palps? I think they know their villain is kinda weak character wise. If Palps and Plaugeis/Snoke come back and fight together, I will be pleased.
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • Palpatine isn't just dark side user, he can hide his force and his intentions like he did at Corusant. Palp knows alot of Plagius's tricks and if he is alive that means he can easily force project as Luke while keeping the real Luke locked away. As Luke Palp can ensnare Rey and also turn Ren to the dark side.
  • Palpatine isn't just dark side user, he can hide his force and his intentions like he did at Corusant. Palp knows alot of Plagius's tricks and if he is alive that means he can easily force project as Luke while keeping the real Luke locked away. As Luke Palp can ensnare Rey and also turn Ren to the dark side.

    And then we're back to square one. Again.
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • I know, this is what I'd want Palp to do. JJ though has a different vision like RJ. Both are bent on having Luke be this failed caricature of a hero.
  • I actually happened to read it before you edited ( couldn’t agree more about the editing... unprecedented), and sadly no, I don’t think Palpatine will save it for you. You seem to want some sort of retconning of TLJ (?), and JJ recently went out and said the obvious, that ep. IX will honor ep. VIII. There will be plot twists no doubt, RJ even said that he wants JJ to really surprise him, but the story of Luke on Ach-To is what will stand.

    Again, sorry you don’t see what I see.

    I'm seeing that JJ has the ability to retcon if he wants. He said he'll honor Episode VIII "but there's more to it than that." So I'm sensing a change. I am also hoping for said change.

    What you see as retcon I see as taking the story beats, as they were left by RJ, and building upon those in whatever direction JJ Abrams see fit. Just like RJ did with TFA. That was how this whole thing was planned. Unless JJ has gone absolutely insane, you won’t see him bringing Luke back to life or that it was all a dream or whatever such nonsense you think of. TLJ was obviously set up (especially in regards to Rey’s parents, which the interview is primarily about) so that JJ could add more to it if he wanted to, or leave her parents as not important, as suggests. RJ said recently that he wants JJ to do something unexpected with the story.

    Everyone is so hell-bent on seeing RJ be ”owned” or whatever, and sort of prove that even Disney want to forget TLJ, that they sometime forget how ridiculous it all sounds. It’s like they think RJ sniper-made TLJ and like no one knew... the gloomy hermit Luke... that was Lucas’ idea!
  • As for the dark mirror cave Palp could do many things. For one, just mirror her powers so he could be just as unstoppable and force capable
  • I know, this is what I'd want Palp to do. JJ though has a different vision like RJ. Both are bent on having Luke be this failed caricature of a hero.

    Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Luke Skywalker the Jedi? I thought not. It's not a story The Last Jedi Fans would tell you. It's a fan legend. Luke Skywalker was a Jedi so relatable and flawed he could use the Hero's Journey to create... a satisfying story. He had such solid character development that he could even become one of the most beloved Star Wars characters of all time. The dark side of the character development is a pathway to many stories some consider to be terrible. He became so beloved that eventually the only things fans became afraid of was him being ruined, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught Rey nothing and then he tried to kill his apprentice in his sleep. It's ironic... He could redeem his father, but not his nephew...
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • I'd fire both JJ and RJ then. TLJ made a caricature out of Luke and OT even. There was Luke, he was heroic and a blind believer in saving his friends and his father until one day Kylo showed him that the dark side is too strong. Confronting Kylo directly was too much and too dangerous so he had to kill him in his sleep but he was too conflicted so he failed and fled, bearing great shame and self resentment. Yeah that narrative doesn't fly with many.

    No, it wouldn’t have. That is not the narrative in TLJ, though right? I mean, that’s not really how it happened. And you’re saying he was a blind believer in saving his friends? Yeah sure! But he was also rash when he went about it. In Ben Solo he saw everything he loves, which I suppose includes his friends and family, be destroyed. You said it yourself, a blind believer in saving his friends -yes! So he ignited his lightsaber... and then came to his senses.
  • That's an awesome analogy to Plagius but still unbelievable. Luke would try to reason and confront Kylo without trying to kill him first.
  • TheStalker88
    6084 posts Member
    edited April 13
    I'd fire both JJ and RJ then. TLJ made a caricature out of Luke and OT even. There was Luke, he was heroic and a blind believer in saving his friends and his father until one day Kylo showed him that the dark side is too strong. Confronting Kylo directly was too much and too dangerous so he had to kill him in his sleep but he was too conflicted so he failed and fled, bearing great shame and self resentment. Yeah that narrative doesn't fly with many.

    No, it wouldn’t have. That is not the narrative in TLJ, though right? I mean, that’s not really how it happened. And you’re saying he was a blind believer in saving his friends? Yeah sure! But he was also rash when he went about it. In Ben Solo he saw everything he loves, which I suppose includes his friends and family, be destroyed. You said it yourself, a blind believer in saving his friends -yes! So he ignited his lightsaber... and then came to his senses.

    Basically what you said is that Luke was always rash weak and scared of losing his loved ones and that made him become a great hero but then he'd also try to aproach Kylo first. After he matched Vader in power during the second duel he was a master jedi. His courage changed him forever. You can't go back from that to being scared of confronting Kylo.
  • I'd fire both JJ and RJ then. TLJ made a caricature out of Luke and OT even. There was Luke, he was heroic and a blind believer in saving his friends and his father until one day Kylo showed him that the dark side is too strong. Confronting Kylo directly was too much and too dangerous so he had to kill him in his sleep but he was too conflicted so he failed and fled, bearing great shame and self resentment. Yeah that narrative doesn't fly with many.

    No, it wouldn’t have. That is not the narrative in TLJ, though right? I mean, that’s not really how it happened. And you’re saying he was a blind believer in saving his friends? Yeah sure! But he was also rash when he went about it. In Ben Solo he saw everything he loves, which I suppose includes his friends and family, be destroyed. You said it yourself, a blind believer in saving his friends -yes! So he ignited his lightsaber... and then came to his senses.

    Basically what you said is that Luke was always rash weak and scared of losing his loved ones and that made him become a great hero but then he'd also try to aproach Kylo first. After he matched Vader in power during the second duel he was a master jedi. His courage changed him forever. You can't go back from that to being scared of confronting Kylo.

    Luke in The Last Jedi has regressed as a character. That doesn't happen unless there's a good reason, which the flashbacks didn't give.
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • I actually happened to read it before you edited ( couldn’t agree more about the editing... unprecedented), and sadly no, I don’t think Palpatine will save it for you. You seem to want some sort of retconning of TLJ (?), and JJ recently went out and said the obvious, that ep. IX will honor ep. VIII. There will be plot twists no doubt, RJ even said that he wants JJ to really surprise him, but the story of Luke on Ach-To is what will stand.

    Again, sorry you don’t see what I see.

    I'm seeing that JJ has the ability to retcon if he wants. He said he'll honor Episode VIII "but there's more to it than that." So I'm sensing a change. I am also hoping for said change.

    What you see as retcon I see as taking the story beats, as they were left by RJ, and building upon those in whatever direction JJ Abrams see fit. Just like RJ did with TFA. That was how this whole thing was planned. Unless JJ has gone absolutely insane, you won’t see him bringing Luke back to life or that it was all a dream or whatever such nonsense you think of. TLJ was obviously set up (especially in regards to Rey’s parents, which the interview is primarily about) so that JJ could add more to it if he wanted to, or leave her parents as not important, as suggests. RJ said recently that he wants JJ to do something unexpected with the story.

    Everyone is so hell-bent on seeing RJ be ”owned” or whatever, and sort of prove that even Disney want to forget TLJ, that they sometime forget how ridiculous it all sounds. It’s like they think RJ sniper-made TLJ and like no one knew... the gloomy hermit Luke... that was Lucas’ idea!

    Yes, because The Last Jedi took what The Force Awakens set up and expanded upon it in a satisfying way. Snoke’s dead, Rey’s a nobody, Finn has a repetitious character arc, Luke is a hermit because he almost murdered his nephew and Luke character regressed, Poe is made to be brash, a character trait not given in TFA, Rey is able to lift as much as Yoda just because and she continues to be skilled with no training, Kylo is still conflicted, Knights of Ren are dropped, and Starkiller Base’s destruction apparently didn’t affect The First Order very much.
    Also, Luke is coming back. He’s in The Rise of Skywalker. Also also, I’m thinking Rey’s a Skywalker.
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • I'd fire both JJ and RJ then. TLJ made a caricature out of Luke and OT even. There was Luke, he was heroic and a blind believer in saving his friends and his father until one day Kylo showed him that the dark side is too strong. Confronting Kylo directly was too much and too dangerous so he had to kill him in his sleep but he was too conflicted so he failed and fled, bearing great shame and self resentment. Yeah that narrative doesn't fly with many.

    No, it wouldn’t have. That is not the narrative in TLJ, though right? I mean, that’s not really how it happened. And you’re saying he was a blind believer in saving his friends? Yeah sure! But he was also rash when he went about it. In Ben Solo he saw everything he loves, which I suppose includes his friends and family, be destroyed. You said it yourself, a blind believer in saving his friends -yes! So he ignited his lightsaber... and then came to his senses.

    Basically what you said is that Luke was always rash weak and scared of losing his loved ones and that made him become a great hero but then he'd also try to aproach Kylo first. After he matched Vader in power during the second duel he was a master jedi. His courage changed him forever. You can't go back from that to being scared of confronting Kylo.

    Yes, they touched on this in TLJ. He was about to confront him, being scared of confronting him was never an issue, was it? But he was not prepared on what he then saw in Ben. So, of course you can go back.

    Luke Skywalker : ”I saw darkness. I sensed it building in him. I'd seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction and pain and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become, and for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose Master had failed him.”

    It was never about contemplating murder, but rather the instinctive reaction of saving everything he loves. But it was over in a heartbeat. He would’ve confronted him, but it was too late.
  • I'd fire both JJ and RJ then. TLJ made a caricature out of Luke and OT even. There was Luke, he was heroic and a blind believer in saving his friends and his father until one day Kylo showed him that the dark side is too strong. Confronting Kylo directly was too much and too dangerous so he had to kill him in his sleep but he was too conflicted so he failed and fled, bearing great shame and self resentment. Yeah that narrative doesn't fly with many.

    No, it wouldn’t have. That is not the narrative in TLJ, though right? I mean, that’s not really how it happened. And you’re saying he was a blind believer in saving his friends? Yeah sure! But he was also rash when he went about it. In Ben Solo he saw everything he loves, which I suppose includes his friends and family, be destroyed. You said it yourself, a blind believer in saving his friends -yes! So he ignited his lightsaber... and then came to his senses.

    Basically what you said is that Luke was always rash weak and scared of losing his loved ones and that made him become a great hero but then he'd also try to aproach Kylo first. After he matched Vader in power during the second duel he was a master jedi. His courage changed him forever. You can't go back from that to being scared of confronting Kylo.

    Yes, they touched on this in TLJ. He was about to confront him, being scared of confronting him was never an issue, was it? But he was not prepared on what he then saw in Ben. So, of course you can go back.

    Luke Skywalker : ”I saw darkness. I sensed it building in him. I'd seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction and pain and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become, and for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose Master had failed him.”

    It was never about contemplating murder, but rather the instinctive reaction of saving everything he loves. But it was over in a heartbeat. He would’ve confronted him, but it was too late.

    You do realize that him contemplating stopping it means contemplating murdering Ben, right? He didn’t activate his lightsaber to see better. He activated it to attack.
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • I actually happened to read it before you edited ( couldn’t agree more about the editing... unprecedented), and sadly no, I don’t think Palpatine will save it for you. You seem to want some sort of retconning of TLJ (?), and JJ recently went out and said the obvious, that ep. IX will honor ep. VIII. There will be plot twists no doubt, RJ even said that he wants JJ to really surprise him, but the story of Luke on Ach-To is what will stand.

    Again, sorry you don’t see what I see.

    I'm seeing that JJ has the ability to retcon if he wants. He said he'll honor Episode VIII "but there's more to it than that." So I'm sensing a change. I am also hoping for said change.

    What you see as retcon I see as taking the story beats, as they were left by RJ, and building upon those in whatever direction JJ Abrams see fit. Just like RJ did with TFA. That was how this whole thing was planned. Unless JJ has gone absolutely insane, you won’t see him bringing Luke back to life or that it was all a dream or whatever such nonsense you think of. TLJ was obviously set up (especially in regards to Rey’s parents, which the interview is primarily about) so that JJ could add more to it if he wanted to, or leave her parents as not important, as suggests. RJ said recently that he wants JJ to do something unexpected with the story.

    Everyone is so hell-bent on seeing RJ be ”owned” or whatever, and sort of prove that even Disney want to forget TLJ, that they sometime forget how ridiculous it all sounds. It’s like they think RJ sniper-made TLJ and like no one knew... the gloomy hermit Luke... that was Lucas’ idea!

    Yes, because The Last Jedi took what The Force Awakens set up and expanded upon it in a satisfying way. Snoke’s dead, Rey’s a nobody, Finn has a repetitious character arc, Luke is a hermit because he almost murdered his nephew and Luke character regressed, Poe is made to be brash, a character trait not given in TFA, Rey is able to lift as much as Yoda just because and she continues to be skilled with no training, Kylo is still conflicted, Knights of Ren are dropped, and Starkiller Base’s destruction apparently didn’t affect The First Order very much.
    Also, Luke is coming back. He’s in The Rise of Skywalker. Also also, I’m thinking Rey’s a Skywalker.

    That these are bad story beats is your opinion. They are most definitely not for me. And I literally said that if JJ hasn’t gone completely mad, Luke won’t be brought back to life in TROS and have what happened on Ach-To retconned. He will be a ghost.

    And think that all you want. I don’t. At all.
  • I'd fire both JJ and RJ then. TLJ made a caricature out of Luke and OT even. There was Luke, he was heroic and a blind believer in saving his friends and his father until one day Kylo showed him that the dark side is too strong. Confronting Kylo directly was too much and too dangerous so he had to kill him in his sleep but he was too conflicted so he failed and fled, bearing great shame and self resentment. Yeah that narrative doesn't fly with many.

    No, it wouldn’t have. That is not the narrative in TLJ, though right? I mean, that’s not really how it happened. And you’re saying he was a blind believer in saving his friends? Yeah sure! But he was also rash when he went about it. In Ben Solo he saw everything he loves, which I suppose includes his friends and family, be destroyed. You said it yourself, a blind believer in saving his friends -yes! So he ignited his lightsaber... and then came to his senses.

    Basically what you said is that Luke was always rash weak and scared of losing his loved ones and that made him become a great hero but then he'd also try to aproach Kylo first. After he matched Vader in power during the second duel he was a master jedi. His courage changed him forever. You can't go back from that to being scared of confronting Kylo.

    Yes, they touched on this in TLJ. He was about to confront him, being scared of confronting him was never an issue, was it? But he was not prepared on what he then saw in Ben. So, of course you can go back.

    Luke Skywalker : ”I saw darkness. I sensed it building in him. I'd seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction and pain and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become, and for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose Master had failed him.”

    It was never about contemplating murder, but rather the instinctive reaction of saving everything he loves. But it was over in a heartbeat. He would’ve confronted him, but it was too late.

    You do realize that him contemplating stopping it means contemplating murdering Ben, right? He didn’t activate his lightsaber to see better. He activated it to attack.

    Perhaps it’s a language thing, but for me and where I stand this is a waaaaay too liberal use of the term ”murder”.
  • I'd fire both JJ and RJ then. TLJ made a caricature out of Luke and OT even. There was Luke, he was heroic and a blind believer in saving his friends and his father until one day Kylo showed him that the dark side is too strong. Confronting Kylo directly was too much and too dangerous so he had to kill him in his sleep but he was too conflicted so he failed and fled, bearing great shame and self resentment. Yeah that narrative doesn't fly with many.

    No, it wouldn’t have. That is not the narrative in TLJ, though right? I mean, that’s not really how it happened. And you’re saying he was a blind believer in saving his friends? Yeah sure! But he was also rash when he went about it. In Ben Solo he saw everything he loves, which I suppose includes his friends and family, be destroyed. You said it yourself, a blind believer in saving his friends -yes! So he ignited his lightsaber... and then came to his senses.

    Basically what you said is that Luke was always rash weak and scared of losing his loved ones and that made him become a great hero but then he'd also try to aproach Kylo first. After he matched Vader in power during the second duel he was a master jedi. His courage changed him forever. You can't go back from that to being scared of confronting Kylo.

    Yes, they touched on this in TLJ. He was about to confront him, being scared of confronting him was never an issue, was it? But he was not prepared on what he then saw in Ben. So, of course you can go back.

    Luke Skywalker : ”I saw darkness. I sensed it building in him. I'd seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction and pain and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become, and for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose Master had failed him.”

    It was never about contemplating murder, but rather the instinctive reaction of saving everything he loves. But it was over in a heartbeat. He would’ve confronted him, but it was too late.

    You do realize that him contemplating stopping it means contemplating murdering Ben, right? He didn’t activate his lightsaber to see better. He activated it to attack.

    Perhaps it’s a language thing, but for me and where I stand this is a waaaaay too liberal use of the term ”murder”.

    Murder—the premeditated( previously thought about) killing of a human being. Seems to fit the definition to me.
    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    kui7ctmgyzll.png
  • I'd fire both JJ and RJ then. TLJ made a caricature out of Luke and OT even. There was Luke, he was heroic and a blind believer in saving his friends and his father until one day Kylo showed him that the dark side is too strong. Confronting Kylo directly was too much and too dangerous so he had to kill him in his sleep but he was too conflicted so he failed and fled, bearing great shame and self resentment. Yeah that narrative doesn't fly with many.

    No, it wouldn’t have. That is not the narrative in TLJ, though right? I mean, that’s not really how it happened. And you’re saying he was a blind believer in saving his friends? Yeah sure! But he was also rash when he went about it. In Ben Solo he saw everything he loves, which I suppose includes his friends and family, be destroyed. You said it yourself, a blind believer in saving his friends -yes! So he ignited his lightsaber... and then came to his senses.

    Basically what you said is that Luke was always rash weak and scared of losing his loved ones and that made him become a great hero but then he'd also try to aproach Kylo first. After he matched Vader in power during the second duel he was a master jedi. His courage changed him forever. You can't go back from that to being scared of confronting Kylo.

    Yes, they touched on this in TLJ. He was about to confront him, being scared of confronting him was never an issue, was it? But he was not prepared on what he then saw in Ben. So, of course you can go back.

    Luke Skywalker : ”I saw darkness. I sensed it building in him. I'd seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction and pain and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become, and for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose Master had failed him.”

    It was never about contemplating murder, but rather the instinctive reaction of saving everything he loves. But it was over in a heartbeat. He would’ve confronted him, but it was too late.

    You do realize that him contemplating stopping it means contemplating murdering Ben, right? He didn’t activate his lightsaber to see better. He activated it to attack.

    Perhaps it’s a language thing, but for me and where I stand this is a waaaaay too liberal use of the term ”murder”.

    Murder—the premeditated( previously thought about) killing of a human being. Seems to fit the definition to me.

    I’d not call it that, but fair enough. You could argue that it is the actual darkness and the foresight of the destruction Kylo would cause that made him instictively ignite his saber, and not Ben Solo per se. Since we live in a world where we can’t magically look into eachother’s future (well, some claim they can, but they are mostly seen on trashy TV and usually end up in jail...), it’s a bit hard to compare :)
  • IIPrest0nII
    3641 posts SWBF Senior Moderator
    edited April 13
    @TheStalker88


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