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Clone Commando Community Transmission
September Community Calendar

I'm really going to miss the target system (not sarcasm!)

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Billkwando
1925 posts Member
edited May 7
@F8RGE @EA_Charlemagne @EA_Tom

Where else will you get to have fights like this?



or have a motivation to strategically maneuver a specific opponent into the spot where you want them to be, just like Miyamoto Musashi teaches? ;)



or have awesome, tension filled duels, like this?



I think TDM is mostly just going to be "dive at whoever's closest and beat them silly", which just isn't strategic at all...or the one strategy, "camp the nearest choke point with Anakin/Phasmabossk"


Yes, HvV has problems, but they can be fixed. Timers, team respawns each target round, there are lots of different ideas floating around.

Also, I really don't understand why they can't just add an additional hero mode. Or just killswitch Boba, lol.

It's not like Ewok Hunt is super popular, and Hero Showdown is pretty much useless, since they can't fix the the autokick system not to kick your dead teammate, who's observing the match and very much there, for being idle. Also, I sincerely doubt you can split the playerbase with an additional 4v4 mode.

I seem to recall them promising on a roadmap or CT that they were at least going to do a weekend trial of TDM before making a decision. Not to mention all the folks who don't come to the forums and are chopping away in HvV, blissfully unaware that the mode is about to change. After all, people only show up to complain, not to announce how much they love playing HvV, because people just don't work that way.

I would implore DICE to at least have a poll IN GAME on one of the tiles (like when they link a tile to the forum for Release Notes), so that people who feel strongly about it can register on the forum and vote.

I'm not trying to deny anyone their Hero TDM, nor do I see any reason for them to want to deny us our HvV, if we can have both. If we can't, then the community as a whole should have a chance to speak, not just what could possibly be just a very vocal minority.

Thoughts?
ZI7BNkU.gif
^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
(Sorta like an insane Japanese SOAD, but w/ 3 vocalists and slap bass)

Gamertag: Billkwando PSN: Billkwando YouTube: Billkwando
Find me in HvV, pushing people off of stuff and watching them fall, like a cat.
Post edited by Billkwando on

Replies

  • We’ll never stop people from running away or abusing the glitches or exploits. But NOW it won’t effect my gameplay becuuse well just kill Your outnumbered team 🤷🏻‍♂️
  • Maliainu
    1107 posts Member
    edited May 7
    I’m going to miss it just because I am already used to Heroes vs Villains with the targeting system.

    I’ve always had fun with it, regardless of all the things I could say need to be changed or improved upon.
  • Agree. I don’t like runners though, and I’m willing to give tdm a try if it solves that issue. But they should have done another objective based mode.
    Hech4Lyf!
  • I won't
  • Somewhat agree,

    Target system (with proper teams) makes you do more Teamwork and tactics to achieve wins. BUT mostly not really happens and the system doesnt work kut well and team get seperate then 4v1 player gangbangs make like 10-0 wins not that rare.
    My priority list:

    1. Fix Split screen mode bugs
    2. Fix bugs
    3. Bigger play area for Duel mode
    4. More love for Starfighter modes
    5. First Person only mode
  • jonci
    1069 posts Member
    OP makes sense on his points and i agree with them all.

    Keep the existing one as well, i believe the new mode will hype for a while then die a death, we will then be left with nothing and the I want target HVV returned cries will abound.

    If people already moaning about target HVV and getting stomped this new mode is going to ensure that increases, also if it's points based then Anakin's point award needs to be brought in line with the others, disgusting how i can get more kills than an Anakin player does, yet get i less points in total making me lower on the score board.
  • grimmace2
    1195 posts Member
    Hopefully there will be some sort of objective play in the new mode, so we can retain some semblance of strategy. The runners/exploiters really ruined the target system for me, as it incentivized people to run/hide. If you have a good team, and you're playing a good team, the mode is great. The runners/exploiters ruined it. The mechanic change will hopefully take that in to consideration. If it's just a spam RT fest, the new mode could get stale.
  • Darth_Vapor3
    4137 posts Member
    I’m expecting some sort of secondary objective element.

    Otherwise, this...
    grimmace2 wrote: »
    Hopefully there will be some sort of objective play in the new mode, so we can retain some semblance of strategy. The runners/exploiters really ruined the target system for me, as it incentivized people to run/hide. If you have a good team, and you're playing a good team, the mode is great. The runners/exploiters ruined it. The mechanic change will hopefully take that in to consideration. If it's just a spam RT fest, the new mode could get stale.

  • Yeah, bring back the target system! Without it, great skill based strategies like this



    will be rendered useless!
  • KresusFIN
    2725 posts Member
    edited May 8
    Yeah, bring back the target system! Without it, great skill based strategies like this



    will be rendered useless!

    "obviously t3h enemy group is just better plyrs than u m8 u shd rly git gud and be better at gaem lol smh"

    Firstly I blame DICE for not properly mapping their levels and allowing this to happen to begin with. [Removed offensive insult] ~Rtas. And the fact that it is designed to work. Points, or even worse, victories, to folks with no business getting them, because some sadsack just kept running around the map all day, and the other target was slowly whittled down by the remaining 3.
    Post edited by EA_Rtas on
    Heart of darkness beateth, Ultima
    Iron enigma treateth, Ultima
    Shielding light retreateth, Ultima
    Hydaelyn defeated. Ah, Ultima


    The fact is that if you're running it's because you suck, and the game shouldn't pander to players who suck.

    y6qvidach2x9.png

    "I have never died to a Finn"
  • KresusFIN wrote: »
    Yeah, bring back the target system! Without it, great skill based strategies like this



    will be rendered useless!

    "obviously t3h enemy group is just better plyrs than u m8 u shd rly git gud and be better at gaem lol smh"

    Firstly I blame DICE for not properly mapping their levels and allowing this to happen to begin with. Secondly, the actual mistakes of God who legit run around and do this. And the fact that it is designed to work. Points, or even worse, victories, to folks with no business getting them, because some sadsack just kept running around the map all day, and the other target was slowly whittled down by the remaining 3.

    DICE has allowed far too many exploitable glitches to remain in the game, but even if they somehow managed to get rid of all of them, it still wouldn't fix hiding or running.
  • AzorAhai wrote: »
    Some people just don't know how to play the objective in this mode. I find runners to be a fun experience.

    Especially if I'm playing with one or both of my cohorts. I don't care how good you are at running. You're just not good enough. We're going to get you. Almost every single time.

    Sadly, runners, the really good ones, just don't frequent the Xbox Virginia servers often enough to give us the satisfaction of ruining their day.

    Boba, yeah that can be another matter entirely. Fortunately, I can count on one hand the number of times I encountered a Boba skilled enough to hide in just the right spots so as to not be damaged (I'd still hit them, but they'd adjust their position...truly skilled cowards).

    It's all too easy on these forums to generalize about those who disagree with you on a particular subject on these forums (they're not smart enough, or good enough, or they're tryhards, or they're noobs, etc). So I won't do it.

    HvV is a diamond in the rough. A great place for the unexperienced to gain some experience, especially since 75% of the time, your death is not going to directly hurt your team. And if you are experienced, it's a great sport, even with random players sometimes. I feel like a broken record by saying this yet again, but there's really something magical about being able to put together some great teamwork with strangers who know what their doing...again...Xbox...Virginia servers...we are truly fortunate.

    I will be surprised if the reworked HvV doesn't have a slant towards objective play. Hero Blast sounds like a complete bore. Oh, if it comes, I will play it, and I will thrive in it, you can count on that (and I won't endlessly whine about it either, even if it's clearly inferior). But I'll be very surprised if they're putting much work at all into a basic TDM mode that would have been all the rage 20 years ago.

    Me and some friends play on Oregon even tho we live closer to Virginia. Virginia always has awful lag for me but it could just be my end. Don’t get matches as quick as Oregon. Alotta runners in Oregon 😂😂
  • AzorAhai wrote: »
    Some people just don't know how to play the objective in this mode. I find runners to be a fun experience.

    Especially if I'm playing with one or both of my cohorts. I don't care how good you are at running. You're just not good enough. We're going to get you. Almost every single time.

    Sadly, runners, the really good ones, just don't frequent the Xbox Virginia servers often enough to give us the satisfaction of ruining their day.

    Boba, yeah that can be another matter entirely. Fortunately, I can count on one hand the number of times I encountered a Boba skilled enough to hide in just the right spots so as to not be damaged (I'd still hit them, but they'd adjust their position...truly skilled cowards).

    It's all too easy on these forums to generalize about those who disagree with you on a particular subject on these forums (they're not smart enough, or good enough, or they're tryhards, or they're noobs, etc). So I won't do it.

    HvV is a diamond in the rough. A great place for the unexperienced to gain some experience, especially since 75% of the time, your death is not going to directly hurt your team. And if you are experienced, it's a great sport, even with random players sometimes. I feel like a broken record by saying this yet again, but there's really something magical about being able to put together some great teamwork with strangers who know what their doing...again...Xbox...Virginia servers...we are truly fortunate.

    I will be surprised if the reworked HvV doesn't have a slant towards objective play. Hero Blast sounds like a complete bore. Oh, if it comes, I will play it, and I will thrive in it, you can count on that (and I won't endlessly whine about it either, even if it's clearly inferior). But I'll be very surprised if they're putting much work at all into a basic TDM mode that would have been all the rage 20 years ago.

    I get your point, but it's not just runners. It's people hiding in places that only they can reach and that are not intended to be in the game.
  • Royox
    69 posts Member
    We’ll never stop people from running away or abusing the glitches or exploits. But NOW it won’t effect my gameplay becuuse well just kill Your outnumbered team 🤷🏻‍♂️

    Exactly. Now there won't be suicidal maniacs that jump at 4 enemies while being the target. Bobba's flying around scaping or keeping the distance will give the opposing team number advantage against the other 3 villains. I won't be gangbanged alone vs 3 enemies as the target because my whole team are chasing like maniacs and unable to kill a 10% HP Darth Maul that isn't even the enemy target.

    No more Lukes/Obiwans/Bobbas standing still at the highest towers or the highest mountains being almost impossible to be hit by most of the heroes/villains.

    Oh, you use a glitch to go out of the map and hide? GOOD, my 4 teammates will deal with your 3 outnumbered friends.


    I will even change some of the star cards, now If I don't have to run away as Boba maybe it's time to use the "Enemy position" card to show my team where the Heroes are instead of the fuell card. Also Phasma's droid will be more strategic than ever now that you won't use it to defend a position as the target (or covering the target).


    It's all positive.
  • TjPunx
    1598 posts Member
    edited May 15
    Players/noobs that moaned about HvV, are still going to moan about the new nose, when they still get stomped

    [Removed profanity, Don't swear ~Rtas]
    Post edited by EA_Rtas on
  • unit900000
    3353 posts Member
    Dont act a fool and you wont get called out. PSN: DarthOdium- old PSN:unit900000
  • Liz4rD
    1059 posts Member
    I hope they will set a sort of objetctive , not just TDM.

    Because just TDM will be like... do you remember when you respawn alone with your blaster hero and then ups, you encounter and face two enemies behind a corner and you know you are dead? Well, it will be that ALL THE TIME.
  • Spiito
    1906 posts Member
    Billkwando wrote: »
    [...]I still can't help but think that at least a fraction of the folks who are against keeping HvV as a separate mode are being disingenuous, and exaggerating how bad the target system is. Why? Because they want to funnel the entire playerbase into a single pathway, like cows to the slaughter, because they would rather steamroll in a group
    Here is a HvV Hoth picture I posted here on the forums last year;
    9WJeClV.jpg
    You can probably tell that I was participating with an invited group of friends, and you can see that there was no steam rolling going on. ((I don't play with groups often, but when I do, I'm not grouping up for nefarious purposes.))
    Today, in HvV on Hoth, early on in the match (9-9) Anakin Skywalker was at the bottom of the map as target.
    Their team had three players, and since Anakin was glitched in an unreachable location, it was just two people attempting to take on all four of my team. The player trying the hardest on the enemy side was throwing himself against my team (mostly played with randoms today) and that opponent had 6 kills and 5,666 score, while the top random on my team had 3 kills and 3,093 score (I was second place with 3 kills - 1 death and 3,004 score.)

    Majority of the HvV matches I played today were largely miserable because no one was getting the opposing target while I was the target. (I tried, I could only make it 12-15 feet in range of the enemy target who was usually being protected by two other players, I'd push them around with the force, but I had to stay back to some extent as to not just pointlessly throw my life away on their sabers and blaster.) In other HvV matches today, my random teams weren't sticking together long enough to stay alive, and our targets were getting gangkilled while running across the map to try and defend our next target. ((...This kind of stuff is the reason why I might group up with friends, so that I can feel comfortable talking to them and let them know things like "The room I'm in contains all four enemy players, if you head this way bring backup." Or, "That character is acting friendly, please don't attack them" etc. But I'm not a social butterfly on the mic, so I avoid playing with friends more often than not. ))

    I eventually decided to stop playing HvV mode in favor of Starfighter Hero.

    Wknuto!
  • Billkwando wrote: »
    AzorAhai wrote: »
    Some people just don't know how to play the objective in this mode. I find runners to be a fun experience.

    Especially if I'm playing with one or both of my cohorts. I don't care how good you are at running. You're just not good enough. We're going to get you. Almost every single time.

    Sadly, runners, the really good ones, just don't frequent the Xbox Virginia servers often enough to give us the satisfaction of ruining their day.

    Boba, yeah that can be another matter entirely. Fortunately, I can count on one hand the number of times I encountered a Boba skilled enough to hide in just the right spots so as to not be damaged (I'd still hit them, but they'd adjust their position...truly skilled cowards).

    It's all too easy on these forums to generalize about those who disagree with you on a particular subject on these forums (they're not smart enough, or good enough, or they're tryhards, or they're noobs, etc). So I won't do it.

    HvV is a diamond in the rough. A great place for the unexperienced to gain some experience, especially since 75% of the time, your death is not going to directly hurt your team. And if you are experienced, it's a great sport, even with random players sometimes. I feel like a broken record by saying this yet again, but there's really something magical about being able to put together some great teamwork with strangers who know what their doing...again...Xbox...Virginia servers...we are truly fortunate.

    I will be surprised if the reworked HvV doesn't have a slant towards objective play. Hero Blast sounds like a complete bore. Oh, if it comes, I will play it, and I will thrive in it, you can count on that (and I won't endlessly whine about it either, even if it's clearly inferior). But I'll be very surprised if they're putting much work at all into a basic TDM mode that would have been all the rage 20 years ago.

    I get your point, but it's not just runners. It's people hiding in places that only they can reach and that are not intended to be in the game.

    I play on the Virginia server as well, and I haven't seen anyone glitching since the old one at Yavvvin 4, that anyone could do, and serious dedicated runners (not running for a second, and then stopping to fight) are nearly nonexistent, except for the rare case of Boba Feta...and that cheese is rare. Not even once a day do I see it.

    I feel like folks overdramatize, as AA said, but if it's really that bad on the Oregon server, then I feel for you. Still no reason not to add a new mode. What I take issue with is the concept of taking away our choice, rather than adding TDM as a new mode. I'm not in favor of someone else' experimental idea becoming the new norm, untested.

    I still can't help but think that at least a fraction of the folks who are against keeping HvV as a separate mode are being disingenuous, and exaggerating how bad the target system is. Why? Because they want to funnel the entire playerbase into a single pathway, like cows to the slaughter, because they would rather steamroll in a group, with minimal effort, rather than strategically play the objective. As I've shown in my videos, a single determined player is sometimes all it takes to score a point, and anyone who says that "only the runners want to keep HvV" is oversimplifying, and needs to watch them.

    Sorry to be a pessimist, but this is the internet.

    I don't play on the Oregon server, but I do play on PC, and every single experienced player knows how to exploit and 80% of those who know are willing to do it. It makes the mode absolutely unplayable.
  • i absolutely hate the target system i love the idea of a team death match with 10 vs 10 that is going to be chaos if they increase the amount of players.
  • Mouthrax
    518 posts Member
    @Billkwando I'm going to miss the target system, I love it and when you get two teams of good players, it's heart racing stuff 👌🏻 ...BUT, unfortunately the amount of players that play to exploit, glitch or simply troll is unbearable.

    I'm so sick and tired of sitting through a round of Boba Fett buzzing around and shooting you from areas that are hard to get to and then flying off when he's the target, endlessly looping the map so that you give chase and your target is wiped - or don't chase so the round lasts so long it becomes boring and loses momentum.

    Or a runner, endlessly doing a loop to achieve the same thing as above.

    Or a camping choke point, where a group of set piece players camp up in a room and dig in, you can't get in and if you try sit out the game goes on forever.

    I know TDM or Hero Blast isn't going to be ideal but currently, the cheeseballs that play to ruin others games are here to stay and minimising their bottom of the barrel game style is a must.
  • Billkwando
    1925 posts Member
    edited May 8
    Mouthrax wrote: »
    Or a camping choke point, where a group of set piece players camp up in a room and dig in, you can't get in

    I wager that will become the new meta for Hero TDM, and there will be parts of maps that we will never see again.

    I suspect for the most part, teams are just gonna be toasting s'mores over their lightsabers, while Anakin and Phasmabossk keep watch. individual players will periodically kamikaze into them, going full Rambo, and tickets will slowly bleed away, unless the timer runs out first.

    I hope I'm wrong, but I we're not gonna have a home to go back to if we end up hating it. Imagine if they axed GA, in favor of CS....or more accurately, just large-scale Blast. That's what they're doing to us.
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sorta like an insane Japanese SOAD, but w/ 3 vocalists and slap bass)

    Gamertag: Billkwando PSN: Billkwando YouTube: Billkwando
    Find me in HvV, pushing people off of stuff and watching them fall, like a cat.
  • Hesha
    507 posts Member
    edited May 9
    The target system was bad, I’m assuming you like gank fests, because that’s all HvV is


    Removed inappropriate comment ~Rtas
    Post edited by EA_Rtas on
  • Billkwando
    1925 posts Member
    edited May 9
    I did provide visual aids, which you clearly didn't watch, otherwise you wouldn't be making a fool of yourself with your false assumptions.


    Removed quoted post ~Rtas
    Post edited by EA_Rtas on
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sorta like an insane Japanese SOAD, but w/ 3 vocalists and slap bass)

    Gamertag: Billkwando PSN: Billkwando YouTube: Billkwando
    Find me in HvV, pushing people off of stuff and watching them fall, like a cat.
  • SamHJ7
    86 posts Member
    I enjoyed the HvV from 2015 battlefront it is better than this target system.
  • Billkwando
    1925 posts Member
    SamHJ7 wrote: »
    I enjoyed the HvV from 2015 battlefront it is better than this target system.

    I play HvV because I want to play as a hero only. Hero Starfighters is a failure partially because they force you to fly regular ships, and that's not what anyone wants when they go into a mode called Hero Starfighters.
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sorta like an insane Japanese SOAD, but w/ 3 vocalists and slap bass)

    Gamertag: Billkwando PSN: Billkwando YouTube: Billkwando
    Find me in HvV, pushing people off of stuff and watching them fall, like a cat.
  • OcDoc
    1789 posts Member
    SamHJ7 wrote: »
    I enjoyed the HvV from 2015 battlefront it is better than this target system.

    I really liked it too. But truth is that you played as a trooper more than a hero in that mode and I don’t believe that will fly with this game.

    It would need a modification where you could earn your way back to being a hero, but I do think with some simple modification it would have gotten the seal of approval by the community.

  • KresusFIN
    2725 posts Member
    brienj wrote: »
    Campers and runners are going to be even more rampant in a TDM type mode.

    They probably will. The difference being that the guy exploring the map is no longer the reason his team gets points, or wins the match, when his opposition is clearly superior in teamfights, or at the game in general. It rewarded bads, and as such, it needs to go. Needed to never even exist.

    Campers were never a serious problem. All it took was a synched approach with all 4, not 1 guy throwing themselves into the full opposing team and constantly being slain as a result. And a smart comp, rather than "hurray we can all be jedi zomgz!!11"
    Heart of darkness beateth, Ultima
    Iron enigma treateth, Ultima
    Shielding light retreateth, Ultima
    Hydaelyn defeated. Ah, Ultima


    The fact is that if you're running it's because you suck, and the game shouldn't pander to players who suck.

    y6qvidach2x9.png

    "I have never died to a Finn"
  • brienj
    680 posts Member
    KresusFIN wrote: »
    brienj wrote: »
    Campers and runners are going to be even more rampant in a TDM type mode.

    They probably will. The difference being that the guy exploring the map is no longer the reason his team gets points, or wins the match, when his opposition is clearly superior in teamfights, or at the game in general. It rewarded bads, and as such, it needs to go. Needed to never even exist.

    Campers were never a serious problem. All it took was a synched approach with all 4, not 1 guy throwing themselves into the full opposing team and constantly being slain as a result. And a smart comp, rather than "hurray we can all be jedi zomgz!!11"

    As it is now with the target system, only 1 out of the 4 people on a team have to "worry" about dying, because they are the only kill that will cost their team a point, so survival instincts will kick in if they are about to die, and will run if needed. On the other hand, if you remove the target system, now everyone on a team has to "worry" about dying, because everybody is worth a point. Without the chance of regaining all your health when you become the target, this is amplified even more. So people will survive at any cost to not lose a point, all 4 players will resort to running if needed, not just one. People that currently get in positions that are favorable to their character, like Luke or Maul on top of a hut in Kashyyyk, that will STILL be the meta, it's not going to change because the target system went away, and in fact it will make it worse, because that's where they will want to hang out all match long. People clamoring for better gameplay without the target system are going to be highly disappointed when every problem they have now is amplified by 4x.
  • quenaelin
    1001 posts Member
    I agree. There is very simple solution, add Hero Blast game mode and add target timer for Hero Target Hunt game mode.
  • KresusFIN
    2725 posts Member
    edited May 10
    brienj wrote: »
    People that currently get in positions that are favorable to their character, like Luke or Maul on top of a hut in Kashyyyk, that will STILL be the meta, it's not going to change because the target system went away, and in fact it will make it worse, because that's where they will want to hang out all match long. .

    Yep. And it's perfectly fine, because while he's busy demonstrating how to be a player without any business in competitive multiplayer versus modes, his other teammates will be partaking in the battle, constantly a man down because of his dumb idea of hiding where he can't be touched.

    And where he no longer contributes anything to his team.

    He can stay and hide, or he can join his friends and make teamfights 4 v 4, and TRY to not be utterly useless.

    Where before, runners and cowards in hiding used to be detrimental to their opposition, and outright dictate how games went, now, they will be detrimental to their OWN team, and they will have a perfectly justified "DEFEAT!" flashing as the match ends.

    Running to rejoin your friends in a teamfight that went wrong is perfectly fine. They'll respawn, and you'll be ready to stand beside them and try again when the opposition arrives, or when you've all regrouped.

    Running because you just outright suck, never taking part in any fighting is not. Your 3 teammates will just whittle down the opposing target and 3...2...1... That's a point gained / victory achieved because you... Ran. Only fighting when you weren't the target. Only when there was literally no risk you'd be punished for bad plays, or reckless engages.

    This change punishes the latter players. As it should.
    Heart of darkness beateth, Ultima
    Iron enigma treateth, Ultima
    Shielding light retreateth, Ultima
    Hydaelyn defeated. Ah, Ultima


    The fact is that if you're running it's because you suck, and the game shouldn't pander to players who suck.

    y6qvidach2x9.png

    "I have never died to a Finn"
  • OcDoc
    1789 posts Member
    KresusFIN wrote: »
    brienj wrote: »
    Campers and runners are going to be even more rampant in a TDM type mode.

    They probably will. The difference being that the guy exploring the map is no longer the reason his team gets points, or wins the match, when his opposition is clearly superior in teamfights, or at the game in general. It rewarded bads, and as such, it needs to go. Needed to never even exist.

    Campers were never a serious problem. All it took was a synched approach with all 4, not 1 guy throwing themselves into the full opposing team and constantly being slain as a result. And a smart comp, rather than "hurray we can all be jedi zomgz!!11"

    True, but it still takes away from the fun. I am mostly worried that Hero Blast won’t be fun.

    And it is hard to sync with randoms without any communication. Typically one other dude may get what you are trying to do but all 4 - good luck.

  • KresusFIN wrote: »
    brienj wrote: »
    People that currently get in positions that are favorable to their character, like Luke or Maul on top of a hut in Kashyyyk, that will STILL be the meta, it's not going to change because the target system went away, and in fact it will make it worse, because that's where they will want to hang out all match long. .

    Yep. And it's perfectly fine, because while he's busy demonstrating how to be a player without any business in competitive multiplayer versus modes, his other teammates will be partaking in the battle, constantly a man down because of his dumb idea of hiding where he can't be touched.

    And where he no longer contributes anything to his team.

    He can stay and hide, or he can join his friends and make teamfights 4 v 4, and TRY to not be utterly useless.

    Where before, runners and cowards in hiding used to be detrimental to their opposition, and outright dictate how games went, now, they will be detrimental to their OWN team, and they will have a perfectly justified "DEFEAT!" flashing as the match ends.

    Running to rejoin your friends in a teamfight that went wrong is perfectly fine. They'll respawn, and you'll be ready to stand beside them and try again when the opposition arrives, or when you've all regrouped.

    Running because you just outright suck, never taking part in any fighting is not. Your 3 teammates will just whittle down the opposing target and 3...2...1... That's a point gained / victory achieved because you... Ran. Only fighting when you weren't the target. Only when there was literally no risk you'd be punished for bad plays, or reckless engages.

    This change punishes the latter players. As it should.

    Some goods points, but a quality team, particularly a pre-made, can easily deal with the 3v4 world war Z attrition and get the lone runner while protecting their own target.

    If it’s going to be just TDM without some other layer of objective gameplay element, then it should be at least 6v6. 4v4 won’t play out well I don’t think.
  • Billkwando
    1925 posts Member
    KresusFIN wrote: »
    brienj wrote: »
    People that currently get in positions that are favorable to their character, like Luke or Maul on top of a hut in Kashyyyk, that will STILL be the meta, it's not going to change because the target system went away, and in fact it will make it worse, because that's where they will want to hang out all match long. .

    Yep. And it's perfectly fine, because while he's busy demonstrating how to be a player without any business in competitive multiplayer versus modes, his other teammates will be partaking in the battle, constantly a man down because of his dumb idea of hiding where he can't be touched.

    Here's the thing you guys don't seem to take into account. Chances are, the rest of his team would be up on the roof with him, because there is no motivation to pursue a specific opponent, due to there no longer being a target. They could just hang out up there all day, picking/pushing off opponents who try to jump up there, since there's no air block, and moving to the opposite side of the roof (like a squirrel on the backside of a tree) if blasters take aim at them. There are plenty of areas on Kashyyyyyk where there is nothing next to a hut but a precipitous drop, and thus no way for blasters to flank the other side.

    How are folks unable to see this?
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sorta like an insane Japanese SOAD, but w/ 3 vocalists and slap bass)

    Gamertag: Billkwando PSN: Billkwando YouTube: Billkwando
    Find me in HvV, pushing people off of stuff and watching them fall, like a cat.
  • grimmace2
    1195 posts Member
    Billkwando wrote: »
    KresusFIN wrote: »
    brienj wrote: »
    People that currently get in positions that are favorable to their character, like Luke or Maul on top of a hut in Kashyyyk, that will STILL be the meta, it's not going to change because the target system went away, and in fact it will make it worse, because that's where they will want to hang out all match long. .

    Yep. And it's perfectly fine, because while he's busy demonstrating how to be a player without any business in competitive multiplayer versus modes, his other teammates will be partaking in the battle, constantly a man down because of his dumb idea of hiding where he can't be touched.

    Here's the thing you guys don't seem to take into account. Chances are, the rest of his team would be up on the roof with him, because there is no motivation to pursue a specific opponent, due to there no longer being a target. They could just hang out up there all day, picking/pushing off opponents who try to jump up there, since there's no air block, and moving to the opposite side of the roof (like a squirrel on the backside of a tree) if blasters take aim at them. There are plenty of areas on Kashyyyyyk where there is nothing next to a hut but a precipitous drop, and thus no way for blasters to flank the other side.

    How are folks unable to see this?

    It's not that the people that want the HvV Target system don't see potential issues with Hero Blast. Personally, I'm sick of the runners/exploiters. Having Boba hide in a spot no one else can get to is infuriating, especially when the rest of your team is doing well. When teammates start dropping because an opposing team member is exploiting a broken mechanic, it's frustrating because the opposing team can now start a steamroll. A good match turns in to a terrible match because of some troll.

    As for the drawbacks of the new mechanic, we don't know what they are. We have no idea what the new mode will actually entail. We may have an idea of what it will be, but we don't know. Will people find ways to exploit it? Probably, but let's wait and see what they give us first. People have been complaining about the target system since launch, the devs actually listened and are giving us something new. I'm counting that as a win.
  • KresusFIN
    2725 posts Member
    I'm not seeing a scenario where a full team would be in some hard-to-reach / glitched location. There's always one peach running around out there. Be it the guy trying to get there, or the guy not having a clue, or the guy playing a character that can't access it. If by chance the whole opposition truly did go hide somewhere; I suspect me and mine will just quit out and queue up again.

    The preferred alternative would be to have DICE actually go over the mapping with a fine tooth comb, but we all know that's not as important as eyelashes, or "incorrect" clone armour patterns.

    I don't think the helm on the Geonosis intro cutscene is quite shiny enough yet either.
    Heart of darkness beateth, Ultima
    Iron enigma treateth, Ultima
    Shielding light retreateth, Ultima
    Hydaelyn defeated. Ah, Ultima


    The fact is that if you're running it's because you suck, and the game shouldn't pander to players who suck.

    y6qvidach2x9.png

    "I have never died to a Finn"
  • Billkwando wrote: »
    @F8RGE @EA_Charlemagne @EA_Tom

    Where else will you get to have fights like this?



    or have a motivation to strategically maneuver a specific opponent into the spot where you want them to be, just like Miyamoto Musashi teaches? ;)



    or have awesome, tension filled duels, like this?



    I think TDM is mostly just going to be "dive at whoever's closest and beat them silly", which just isn't strategic at all...or the one strategy, "camp the nearest choke point with Anakin/Phasmabossk"


    Yes, HvV has problems, but they can be fixed. Timers, team respawns each target round, there are lots of different ideas floating around.

    Also, I really don't understand why they can't just add an additional hero mode. Or just killswitch Boba, lol.

    It's not like Ewok Hunt is super popular, and Hero Showdown is pretty much useless, since they can't fix the the autokick system not to kick your dead teammate, who's observing the match and very much there, for being idle. Also, I sincerely doubt you can split the playerbase with an additional 4v4 mode.

    I seem to recall them promising on a roadmap or CT that they were at least going to do a weekend trial of TDM before making a decision. Not to mention all the folks who don't come to the forums and are chopping away in HvV, blissfully unaware that the mode is about to change. After all, people only show up to complain, not to announce how much they love playing HvV, because people just don't work that way.

    I would implore DICE to at least have a poll IN GAME on one of the tiles (like when they link a tile to the forum for Release Notes), so that people who feel strongly about it can register on the forum and vote.

    I'm not trying to deny anyone their Hero TDM, nor do I see any reason for them to want to deny us our HvV, if we can have both. If we can't, then the community as a whole should have a chance to speak, not just what could possibly be just a very vocal minority.

    Thoughts?

    I agree with this and the instead think they need to tweak the game modes rules abit and nerf bobas jet pack.
  • KresusFIN
    2725 posts Member
    Mcnally98 wrote: »
    Billkwando wrote: »
    @F8RGE @EA_Charlemagne @EA_Tom

    Where else will you get to have fights like this?



    or have a motivation to strategically maneuver a specific opponent into the spot where you want them to be, just like Miyamoto Musashi teaches? ;)



    or have awesome, tension filled duels, like this?



    I think TDM is mostly just going to be "dive at whoever's closest and beat them silly", which just isn't strategic at all...or the one strategy, "camp the nearest choke point with Anakin/Phasmabossk"


    Yes, HvV has problems, but they can be fixed. Timers, team respawns each target round, there are lots of different ideas floating around.

    Also, I really don't understand why they can't just add an additional hero mode. Or just killswitch Boba, lol.

    It's not like Ewok Hunt is super popular, and Hero Showdown is pretty much useless, since they can't fix the the autokick system not to kick your dead teammate, who's observing the match and very much there, for being idle. Also, I sincerely doubt you can split the playerbase with an additional 4v4 mode.

    I seem to recall them promising on a roadmap or CT that they were at least going to do a weekend trial of TDM before making a decision. Not to mention all the folks who don't come to the forums and are chopping away in HvV, blissfully unaware that the mode is about to change. After all, people only show up to complain, not to announce how much they love playing HvV, because people just don't work that way.

    I would implore DICE to at least have a poll IN GAME on one of the tiles (like when they link a tile to the forum for Release Notes), so that people who feel strongly about it can register on the forum and vote.

    I'm not trying to deny anyone their Hero TDM, nor do I see any reason for them to want to deny us our HvV, if we can have both. If we can't, then the community as a whole should have a chance to speak, not just what could possibly be just a very vocal minority.

    Thoughts?

    I agree with this and the instead think they need to tweak the game modes rules abit and nerf bobas jet pack.

    Easy fix for the Jetpack:

    For The Hunt now reduces Fuel burn rate by 50%, rather than grant you unlimited Fuel for the duration. You can now only ever fly as high as a force powered jump, at any given time.

    And just like that, running Bobas stopped being a problem.

    Now we'd just need to think up something for the Mauls, and the Yodas, and the Lukes.

    And shockingly, some Anakins even run and hide too...
    Imagine being so bad, you take the strongest character in the game, and just hide. Alarming what that would imply for humanity.
    Heart of darkness beateth, Ultima
    Iron enigma treateth, Ultima
    Shielding light retreateth, Ultima
    Hydaelyn defeated. Ah, Ultima


    The fact is that if you're running it's because you suck, and the game shouldn't pander to players who suck.

    y6qvidach2x9.png

    "I have never died to a Finn"
  • brienj
    680 posts Member
    grimmace2 wrote: »
    Billkwando wrote: »
    KresusFIN wrote: »
    brienj wrote: »
    People that currently get in positions that are favorable to their character, like Luke or Maul on top of a hut in Kashyyyk, that will STILL be the meta, it's not going to change because the target system went away, and in fact it will make it worse, because that's where they will want to hang out all match long. .

    Yep. And it's perfectly fine, because while he's busy demonstrating how to be a player without any business in competitive multiplayer versus modes, his other teammates will be partaking in the battle, constantly a man down because of his dumb idea of hiding where he can't be touched.

    Here's the thing you guys don't seem to take into account. Chances are, the rest of his team would be up on the roof with him, because there is no motivation to pursue a specific opponent, due to there no longer being a target. They could just hang out up there all day, picking/pushing off opponents who try to jump up there, since there's no air block, and moving to the opposite side of the roof (like a squirrel on the backside of a tree) if blasters take aim at them. There are plenty of areas on Kashyyyyyk where there is nothing next to a hut but a precipitous drop, and thus no way for blasters to flank the other side.

    How are folks unable to see this?

    It's not that the people that want the HvV Target system don't see potential issues with Hero Blast. Personally, I'm sick of the runners/exploiters. Having Boba hide in a spot no one else can get to is infuriating, especially when the rest of your team is doing well. When teammates start dropping because an opposing team member is exploiting a broken mechanic, it's frustrating because the opposing team can now start a steamroll. A good match turns in to a terrible match because of some troll.

    As for the drawbacks of the new mechanic, we don't know what they are. We have no idea what the new mode will actually entail. We may have an idea of what it will be, but we don't know. Will people find ways to exploit it? Probably, but let's wait and see what they give us first. People have been complaining about the target system since launch, the devs actually listened and are giving us something new. I'm counting that as a win.

    I've seen exactly one Boba hide, and it was in the wall on Hoth. You know what I did after the match, I blocked them. Guess what? I never have to play that person ever again. That's how you solve the problem, not by ruining a pretty good and fun mode for 95% of matches and turning it into a trash mode that will never be fun. I keep seeing people talk about glitching Bobas, but I've only seen one. I don't know what servers you are playing on, or what version, but if it's that bad, just start blocking those players, if you even can. If you can't, then they should have the option to block within the game itself on those versions. I know on Xbox you can block them through the system.
  • Billkwando
    1925 posts Member
    KresusFIN wrote: »
    I'm not seeing a scenario where a full team would be in some hard-to-reach / glitched location. There's always one peach running around out there. Be it the guy trying to get there, or the guy not having a clue, or the guy playing a character that can't access it. If by chance the whole opposition truly did go hide somewhere; I suspect me and mine will just quit out and queue up again.

    If you're replying to me, I was talking about standing on the roof of a hut in Kashyyyyyk. Not talking about glitching or hiding, I'm talking about camping in an advantageous location, with no motivation to move, due to there being no target to pursue.
    ZI7BNkU.gif
    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sorta like an insane Japanese SOAD, but w/ 3 vocalists and slap bass)

    Gamertag: Billkwando PSN: Billkwando YouTube: Billkwando
    Find me in HvV, pushing people off of stuff and watching them fall, like a cat.
  • brienj
    680 posts Member
    edited May 10
    Billkwando wrote: »
    KresusFIN wrote: »
    I'm not seeing a scenario where a full team would be in some hard-to-reach / glitched location. There's always one peach running around out there. Be it the guy trying to get there, or the guy not having a clue, or the guy playing a character that can't access it. If by chance the whole opposition truly did go hide somewhere; I suspect me and mine will just quit out and queue up again.

    If you're replying to me, I was talking about standing on the roof of a hut in Kashyyyyyk. Not talking about glitching or hiding, I'm talking about camping in an advantageous location, with no motivation to move, due to there being no target to pursue.

    I also can easily see that this will be the meta used by a lot of people. As you said, there is no motivation to have to move, and they will force the opposing team to pursue them at a disadvantage if they want to kill them. Also, people are forgetting that with the removal of the target system, none of the enemy players will be easily marked, so you won't know the positions of ANY of your opponents. That will make it much harder to find the enemy team members, and if they don't move, unless you have someone like Rey playing, you won't know their position and could easily walk into a trap. At least with the target system, you always know where one of their players are at all times, and it makes it much easier to strategize. But why am I talking about strategy? It seems pretty clear that the people who want the target removed, already use no strategy when they play, other than to try and kill everyone they can. That's why they want the mode that way, it's all they understand apparently. Forget about a team game based on strategy, we have to just blindly go around killing random players. That's so much fun.
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