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Gamescom 2019 Triple XP
Community Transmission

How to decimate a phenomenal franchise in 190 days.

Prev1
For the TL:DR crowd, buh-bye.

I'm going to begin with a statistic that most may have never heard, seen, known. 
  • Less than 1.5% (1.43% as of today) of XBox players of BF2017 reach Player Rank 50.
What does that mean?
That means that very few BattlefrontII players (and I suspect this is across all platforms - PS4, PC, XBox) ever play long enough to become fully proficient in the base-4 classes.  Indeed, some may say, "all I care about is playing Assault and Enforcer .. " -- and that's fine.  Even if that is you, what I am about to describe still pertains to you.

For the past 18-20 months of updates---from Grievous on---we've seen a huge Development push towards ever-more-powerful Heroes and Enforcers.  EA/DICE have been on the POWER-binge.  Each major release seemed to ONE-UP the previous release.  Grievous trumped everyone before.  Kenobi trumped Grievous.  Dooku trumped Kenobi.  And then Anakin trumped them all, and for a good time thereafter.  In-between those, we had the Infiltrators, and of late - the Droidekas and TX-130s.  Who cares?

I do.  And so should a majority of the player base.  A vast majority of the player base.  It should be extremely disconcerting that a mere 1.5% of players ever reach Player Rank 50.  That number ought to be much closer to 25+% given all the Double and Triple XP events DICE have thrown at the players over the same time frame.

Frankly, EA/DICE have decimated their own Star Wars game franchise with this pursuit of POWER.  Making it ever more easier to off the little ones in a given episode - particularly in the GA and CS formats.  It should be of little wonder WHY EA/DICE even felt it necessary to augment the player base of CS with AI bots..!!   It only underscores and vastly understates the point that the general player base of BattlefrontII is NOT being catered to with these POWER releases of EA/DICE. 

When you pursue a course targeting the uber elite of your player base, at the cost of your 98%, you are essentially trashing your own future.

GA/CS today is boring.  Boring because the play for the objectives of the game are inconsequential to nearly every player in the game.  Dismal Game Design is to blame.  Very, very few GA / CS games are now balanced---and, I won't even go in to the claim of EA/DICE's match-making algorithm being the culprit.  More than that, the whole game layout is slated heavily in favor of those who can attain the POWER players - Aerials, Infiltrators, TX-130s/Droidekas, and Heroes - first.  And who are those players?  Typically, they are the ones who best understand how to utilize those advantages given them.  Sure, you will have a few newbie hero players, but they tend to die within 30 seconds of grabbing a hero until they have some skill.  By-in-large, the same players time and time-again are the ones quickly gaining the requisite BP necessary to grab an Elite (Enforcer, Aerial, Infiltrator, Hero) and thereafter DOMINATE the landscape with the POWER afforded to them by the EA/DICE Development team.

In the end, you have a dismally boring game, lopsided and dominated by an elite few.  The casual gamer who came to BattlefrontII, looking for a relatively fair fight, where skill, teamwork, objective-based play matter, will be sorely sent packing back to the Respawn Screen repeatedly by the POWER-users---the Hero-worshippers of the player base.  And, a good portion of those casual gamers are sent packing to go play APEX or Fortnite or Call of Duty, et. al., because they simply cannot get a fair fight being a base-4 trooper in just about ANY game format BF II offers -- even in BLAST, as the Aerials just dominate that landscape over base-4 troopers.

What's more, ... getting back to the original statistic of 1.5% attaining Player Rank 50 ..., most gamers are not at a point in all classes where they have unlocked ALL weapons with ALL 3 options unlocked per weapon, let alone have purple status in all of the Star Cards for all classes.  Perhaps they may have in 1 or 2, but 3 or 4 is rare.  And to have adequate experience in all classes to be competent with all weaponry and skill sets is even rarer.  To unlock the most formidable weapons takes hours and hours and hours of play - the CR-2 w/ reduced recoil, the DC15 w/ Exploding shots, the SE-44C with rapid fire(!), the NT-242 w/ extra cooling - all of those typically require class-rank 50+ to even begin to have most of the advanced weaponry and Star Cards (level 20 for the base, basic Stinger Pistol for Specialists, e.g.) capable of standing up to the Elites of the game.

Don't get up on my account..!  -- how snarky.  How heroic, right?

But, this is just p__-poor Game Design and Game Development Roadmap on EA/DICE's part.  Why they continue to insist on having Elites mixed in with the Base-4 classes is beyond me.  Beyond comprehension.

I fully understand EA/DICE wanting to create a "Star-Wars-y" feel to the game.  But, if that's true, why are they only following that part-of-the-time?  E.g., they want to have heroes inter-mixed with the Base-4 troopers, but they permit cross-era heroes?!?!  Ever wonder why they don't permit cross-era Troopers?   Why can't I play my ROG-R skin'd Officer on CRAIT for the First Order?!?!  Correct---it'd be ugly.  Just like the cross-era heroes.  They stick out like sore thumbs---like the Han Solo Hoth skin on Tatooine.

Don't get up my account..!

How about the fact that on Geonosis, your given the story-line that your Clone Trooper squad NEEDS to call for help to get extra AT-TEs sent in from afar.  You cannot use LAATs ... ever ... yet, those and troopers are battling all AROUND you, on either-side of the GA Geonisis battlefront.  You see LAATs whizzing all around you, yet you can't even call up one?  Where'd all the TX-130's suddenly come from?  Were those just parked on the other side of the mountain such they could only be used Stage 2 on?  Ditto for the Droids---were their tanks just parked too far away they never thought it necessary to bring those with them to attack the Clones in Stage 1?

Don't get up on my account...!

If EA/DICE really want this franchise to succeed, several things need to happen... quickly.
  1. Heroes need something heroic to do in the game.  EA/DICE need to combine formats -- GA & Extraction, say.  Open up with Kashyyyk GA.  Play begins at Stage 1 as normal.  As players build up BP, they can opt to play in the Elite Track where an Extraction episode battle rages on.  Clone Trooper heroes are attempting to extract a bonus shipment of Ion Blasters for their team to use.  IF they get it extracted successfully, the Clone team gains possession of a 4th and lucrative load of Ion Blasters to use against the Droid MTTs.

    Conversely, on Stage 2 (Juggernauts), the Droid team would be attempting to extract an extra set of Detonators (essentially extra team tickets to set detonators on each Juggernaut---e.g., an extra 50 or 100 tickets if successful).

    Elite Tracks would be open to any class (base-4 included, but the players would be given a very stern, verbal warning that they were entering a perilous task).  Aerials, Infiltrators, Droidekas, Heroes would only be allowed in to these Elite Track areas.  They would NOT be permitted in to the base-4 trooper play areas.  They are heroes, remember?  Ever see George Lucas spend more than a few moments filming Jedi vs. dolts in his films?  No, he spent a good chunk of film on DV v. Kenobi and Palpatine v. Yoda, e.g., but not on Jedi entering the Jedi Temple.  There's a reason for that.

    Look at the success of BF2015.  Players still play that game to this day!  Every day, I can get a Walker Assault game .. and enjoy it (aside from the speeders killing team-mate abusers on Endor...).  Players, casual players can enjoy that game mode from Day 1.  You don't need, necessarily, to have the uber-elite Star Cards; even the rudimentary stuff is sufficient for decent game play.  Nor do POWER ELITES absurdly influence game play and outcomes as they do in BF2.

  2. Stop pretending that a majority of your player base is "Heroes".  Most of us in the real world know this.  Any time you focus development efforts on one or two new unique characters or units, the remaining 95% of the player base is getting the shaft of the development teams' time and effort.

    a.  Typically, it involves new threats and sudden death to the generic base-4 class player.
    b.  Typically, it also involves reducing damage to ELITES from the base-4 class player.  (Or nerfing Rolling as a defense).
    c.  Typically, it means more time staring at the Respawn Screen for the base-4 class player.
    d.  Typically, it means no attention paid to base-4 class player bug fixing.  (E.g., Thermal Detonator explosions are in desperate need of fixing.  Many explosions go straight through solid metal / rock walls, down stairs, across 100s of meters of screen space.  And, this has been an issue for months... months.)

    ELITE development, POWER development -- all those pretty lights and sounds -- only bump up the power-play of the < 5% of your player base.  The remaining 95% is getting the proverbial shaft.  And there is no excuse for it.  Because I enjoy playing as a base-4 trooper, I have been shunned Development Team time and effort for the past 18 months.  Is my money no good?  While only 10-15% of the player base play as an ELITE part of the time in a given CS/GA episode, at least 100% of us start off as a Base-4 player in the beginning.  85-90% remain as much through out the game.  Why are EA/DICE not spending commensurate amounts on the development of play for the 85-90% of the player base???

    Don't get up on my account..!

  3. ELITE-free Trooper play must be a thing.  A majority of your player base is NOT playing elites.  As much as they make plenty of noise on Reddit, here in the EA forums, Twitter, Twitch, etc., they are NOT the majority.  They are simply the VOCAL majority.  Huuuuuge difference.  Huuuuuge.

If EA/DICE is serious about this franchise's success through the years, including that of Fallen Order, I hope-to-heck they take note of this post.  I'm sure we'll get a good chunk of Hero-worshipper responses being excessively VOCAL about how casual players just need to "git gud" and not die as much.  But, they are not concerned about the game's future as I and other Trooper players are.  The franchise is not in a good position if only 1.5% of players are reaching Player Rank 50+.

Don't get up on my account..!

Replies

  • ID_8615
    787 posts Member
    Yes, I am very aware that Class-level and Player-level are 2 distinct items.  I did not think it necessary to make that point in my **** above.

    Still a player making level 50 in any given class is probably well on the way to making player level 20 or 25.
  • bfloo
    15529 posts Member
    The way you used it as a counter point implied it.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • Level 50 club, be proud that you are the best 1.5%
  • I pretty much agree with all that’s said.
  • On PS4 only 2% of players managed to reach rank 50. I play from the beta and then from the launch with the deluxe edition and I reached rank 50 in a short time in May 2018.
  • Obi has never been more powerful than Grievous :D
  • CC_1010
    1430 posts Member
    Level 50 club, be proud that you are the best 1.5%
    Well maybe I am it in HvV/HS... but not at all in any blastermode lol...
  • CC_1010
    1430 posts Member
    Obi has never been more powerful than Grievous :D
    Yeah, that was funny
  • Reading this has made me remember those players that start a large scale mode with no starcards and only the initial weapons. That's why they quit and never get lvl 50, it must be extremely frustrating.

    The initial weapons suck a lot. And there isn't much room to get the other ones if the only qay is to get kills with those underpowered base classes. Not even blast and strike make it much easier because you have all the reinforcements there too. 

    And then there are the milestones bugs, some may get the threshold to grab new weapons but their milestones bug out and they can't claim their weapons.

    Well, for those I have a suggestion: play HvV to get some cards to rare levels, which isn't so hard (far easier then in the large scale modes), then come back to GA or CS get your officer and level him up a bit just to get the Officer's Presence card. Then with it equipped, just stay around teammates to get those easy BattlePoints until you can grab a hero and you may start to barely enjoy the game.

    I think it's the easiest way
    Tired of BUGs?

    Well, they'll still exist.
    But visit the Rogue Bros Channel, there we document many BUGs and possible workarounds for them. There's also gameplay and other videos related to EA's Star Wars Battlefront (I & II)
  • lerodemmy
    3490 posts Member
    They actually decimated the franchise in like 95 days when they ruined dodged in February 2018.
    21 years in the making... the wait is over. Buy RESIDENT EVIL 2 now!
    headerjpgt1547513853
  • ID_8615
    787 posts Member
    edited August 3
    When the game's primary game modes are CS, GA, and all the HvV modes, you are telling new comers to go pound sand.  Even if they've gone through the initial Iden Versio storyline, maybe played a few rounds of arcade or even had a bout playing against the bots as Maul, they're not going to fare well at all with basic weaponry, abilities of the base-4 class infantry.

    GA & CS design needs a major overhaul to be enjoyable.  And EA/DICE are not about to go there any time soon.
  • Empire_TW said:
    The addition of new heroes and reinforcements is mostly because CW fans think the game is literally unplayable if the content isn't their favorite era. 

    There really isn't lust for power, Obi-Wan was an attempt to stop DS spam in HvV and Anakin was an even lazier attempt to try and balance out HvV. 

    It is true that it is a very vocal amount of people requesting heroes though.
    what is DS spam
  • Empire_TW said:
    The addition of new heroes and reinforcements is mostly because CW fans think the game is literally unplayable if the content isn't their favorite era. 

    There really isn't lust for power, Obi-Wan was an attempt to stop DS spam in HvV and Anakin was an even lazier attempt to try and balance out HvV. 

    It is true that it is a very vocal amount of people requesting heroes though.
    what is DS spam
    Darkside Ability spam.
    Janina Gavankar/Iden Versio Fan
    First Max Prestige Iden Versio
    hojevrxvarht.png
    PSN: Empire_TW. Twitter: Empire_TW. Youtube: Empire_TW.
  • bfloo
    15529 posts Member
    SrawDawg said:
    This thread title is misleading @ best. How did this game single handed destroy the whole franchise going back to the 70's? I thought The Last Jedi did that. Maybe you saw a different TLJ than I did.
    I thought they meant the battlefront franchise
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • ID_8615
    787 posts Member
    bfloo said:
    SrawDawg said:
    This thread title is misleading @ best. How did this game single handed destroy the whole franchise going back to the 70's? I thought The Last Jedi did that. Maybe you saw a different TLJ than I did.
    I thought they meant the battlefront franchise
    I certainly did mean the Battlefront franchise.

    Spending nearly all this time to cater to the wants of the Elite few, wrecking the game play for the remaining 95% of the player base .. EA/DICE have succeeded in obliterating the good thing they had going with this franchise.
  • ID_8615
    787 posts Member
    Just a simple scoring aspect change in BP distribution could go a long ways in rectifying this debacle of GA / CS.

    1.  Reduce BP rewards by 75% when Elites kill Base-4 players.

    2.  Give a huge reward to the defending team players that knock an attacking team member off an objective point or clearing an attacker from an occupation zone (e.g. Endor stage 1, DS any stage, Tatooine clearing an attacker out from an occupation zone or the final stage, Jakku occupation zones, or the final stage, etc.).  

    3.  Give a large bonus 1200+ to the defending team players when the attackers are successfully thwarted and the GA episode ends early.  Maybe even make that a Career Goal.

    These are simple changes.  Changes that require little to no time time & effort to make on the Dev Team's part to beging to swing emphasis back towards objective play once more.  It will deter those who simply want to farm kills as heroes and reinforcements as the rewards would be discounted to the point they would no longer make the End of Regulation podium placements nearly as often (unless they were also playing the objectives..!!).
  • Agree 100% with you. Nowadays I can't stand playing more than 2 CS games. It gets boring really fast and pretty much the team with the most heroes pushing wins.
  • Evo911
    265 posts Member
    They decimated by knowing nothing about what is a balanced game (how anakin was able to be validated and release in its original OP state by Dice/EA team...??. 

    And to all the updates were massive bugs added which show massive technical incompetence and kills gameplay for months.

    Congrats Dice/EA
  • ID_8615
    787 posts Member
    They could make do with a smaller staff..!
    They could have decided---at any point---to overhaul the design & gameplay of GA & CS with regards to base-4 and elites.  It's not complicated to separate those two groups and still create an enjoyable, team-based objective play scenario .. that is also Star Wars-y.

    But, no.  No, they went on the POWER-binge because bright lights and whistles and suuupr kewl graFFix and rave reviews by online vloggers are far more important to young developer egoes than meaningful development for the player base as a whole.
    They sacrificed the long-term for short-term fortune and glory from the Hero-worshiper crowd.
  • Where did you see this 1.5% statistic OP? 
  • ID_8615
    787 posts Member
    If/when one achieves Player Rank 50 on XBox / PS4, the system informs you of what percentage of players have also achieved such a rank.
  • ID_8615 said:
    If/when one achieves Player Rank 50 on XBox / PS4, the system informs you of what percentage of players have also achieved such a rank.
    Oh I see. So I have rank 50, can I see the current percentage of players that have reached rank 50 or does it just say it on the screen or something when you reach it? 
  • ID_8615
    787 posts Member
    If you are on XBox, you can go look at your Achievements and it will note the percentage there in the minutia.  PS4 as well, but it's a slightly different menu location.
  • ID_8615 said:
    If you are on XBox, you can go look at your Achievements and it will note the percentage there in the minutia.  PS4 as well, but it's a slightly different menu location.
    Hmm, I can't see it anywhere. I checked the "career" page it just showed my rank 50 "reached max rank" and I went through the milestones and couldn't find one that said rank 50. What is it under exactly? Maybe I missed it. 
  • Disboy
    175 posts Member
    ID_8615 said:
    For the TL:DR crowd, buh-bye.

    I'm going to begin with a statistic that most may have never heard, seen, known. 
    • Less than 1.5% (1.43% as of today) of XBox players of BF2017 reach Player Rank 50.
    What does that mean?
    That means that very few BattlefrontII players (and I suspect this is across all platforms - PS4, PC, XBox) ever play long enough to become fully proficient in the base-4 classes.  Indeed, some may say, "all I care about is playing Assault and Enforcer .. " -- and that's fine.  Even if that is you, what I am about to describe still pertains to you.

    For the past 18-20 months of updates---from Grievous on---we've seen a huge Development push towards ever-more-powerful Heroes and Enforcers.  EA/DICE have been on the POWER-binge.  Each major release seemed to ONE-UP the previous release.  Grievous trumped everyone before.  Kenobi trumped Grievous.  Dooku trumped Kenobi.  And then Anakin trumped them all, and for a good time thereafter.  In-between those, we had the Infiltrators, and of late - the Droidekas and TX-130s.  Who cares?

    I do.  And so should a majority of the player base.  A vast majority of the player base.  It should be extremely disconcerting that a mere 1.5% of players ever reach Player Rank 50.  That number ought to be much closer to 25+% given all the Double and Triple XP events DICE have thrown at the players over the same time frame.

    Frankly, EA/DICE have decimated their own Star Wars game franchise with this pursuit of POWER.  Making it ever more easier to off the little ones in a given episode - particularly in the GA and CS formats.  It should be of little wonder WHY EA/DICE even felt it necessary to augment the player base of CS with AI bots..!!   It only underscores and vastly understates the point that the general player base of BattlefrontII is NOT being catered to with these POWER releases of EA/DICE. 

    When you pursue a course targeting the uber elite of your player base, at the cost of your 98%, you are essentially trashing your own future.

    GA/CS today is boring.  Boring because the play for the objectives of the game are inconsequential to nearly every player in the game.  Dismal Game Design is to blame.  Very, very few GA / CS games are now balanced---and, I won't even go in to the claim of EA/DICE's match-making algorithm being the culprit.  More than that, the whole game layout is slated heavily in favor of those who can attain the POWER players - Aerials, Infiltrators, TX-130s/Droidekas, and Heroes - first.  And who are those players?  Typically, they are the ones who best understand how to utilize those advantages given them.  Sure, you will have a few newbie hero players, but they tend to die within 30 seconds of grabbing a hero until they have some skill.  By-in-large, the same players time and time-again are the ones quickly gaining the requisite BP necessary to grab an Elite (Enforcer, Aerial, Infiltrator, Hero) and thereafter DOMINATE the landscape with the POWER afforded to them by the EA/DICE Development team.

    In the end, you have a dismally boring game, lopsided and dominated by an elite few.  The casual gamer who came to BattlefrontII, looking for a relatively fair fight, where skill, teamwork, objective-based play matter, will be sorely sent packing back to the Respawn Screen repeatedly by the POWER-users---the Hero-worshippers of the player base.  And, a good portion of those casual gamers are sent packing to go play APEX or Fortnite or Call of Duty, et. al., because they simply cannot get a fair fight being a base-4 trooper in just about ANY game format BF II offers -- even in BLAST, as the Aerials just dominate that landscape over base-4 troopers.

    What's more, ... getting back to the original statistic of 1.5% attaining Player Rank 50 ..., most gamers are not at a point in all classes where they have unlocked ALL weapons with ALL 3 options unlocked per weapon, let alone have purple status in all of the Star Cards for all classes.  Perhaps they may have in 1 or 2, but 3 or 4 is rare.  And to have adequate experience in all classes to be competent with all weaponry and skill sets is even rarer.  To unlock the most formidable weapons takes hours and hours and hours of play - the CR-2 w/ reduced recoil, the DC15 w/ Exploding shots, the SE-44C with rapid fire(!), the NT-242 w/ extra cooling - all of those typically require class-rank 50+ to even begin to have most of the advanced weaponry and Star Cards (level 20 for the base, basic Stinger Pistol for Specialists, e.g.) capable of standing up to the Elites of the game.

    Don't get up on my account..!  -- how snarky.  How heroic, right?

    But, this is just p__-poor Game Design and Game Development Roadmap on EA/DICE's part.  Why they continue to insist on having Elites mixed in with the Base-4 classes is beyond me.  Beyond comprehension.

    I fully understand EA/DICE wanting to create a "Star-Wars-y" feel to the game.  But, if that's true, why are they only following that part-of-the-time?  E.g., they want to have heroes inter-mixed with the Base-4 troopers, but they permit cross-era heroes?!?!  Ever wonder why they don't permit cross-era Troopers?   Why can't I play my ROG-R skin'd Officer on CRAIT for the First Order?!?!  Correct---it'd be ugly.  Just like the cross-era heroes.  They stick out like sore thumbs---like the Han Solo Hoth skin on Tatooine.

    Don't get up my account..!

    How about the fact that on Geonosis, your given the story-line that your Clone Trooper squad NEEDS to call for help to get extra AT-TEs sent in from afar.  You cannot use LAATs ... ever ... yet, those and troopers are battling all AROUND you, on either-side of the GA Geonisis battlefront.  You see LAATs whizzing all around you, yet you can't even call up one?  Where'd all the TX-130's suddenly come from?  Were those just parked on the other side of the mountain such they could only be used Stage 2 on?  Ditto for the Droids---were their tanks just parked too far away they never thought it necessary to bring those with them to attack the Clones in Stage 1?

    Don't get up on my account...!

    If EA/DICE really want this franchise to succeed, several things need to happen... quickly.
    1. Heroes need something heroic to do in the game.  EA/DICE need to combine formats -- GA & Extraction, say.  Open up with Kashyyyk GA.  Play begins at Stage 1 as normal.  As players build up BP, they can opt to play in the Elite Track where an Extraction episode battle rages on.  Clone Trooper heroes are attempting to extract a bonus shipment of Ion Blasters for their team to use.  IF they get it extracted successfully, the Clone team gains possession of a 4th and lucrative load of Ion Blasters to use against the Droid MTTs.

      Conversely, on Stage 2 (Juggernauts), the Droid team would be attempting to extract an extra set of Detonators (essentially extra team tickets to set detonators on each Juggernaut---e.g., an extra 50 or 100 tickets if successful).

      Elite Tracks would be open to any class (base-4 included, but the players would be given a very stern, verbal warning that they were entering a perilous task).  Aerials, Infiltrators, Droidekas, Heroes would only be allowed in to these Elite Track areas.  They would NOT be permitted in to the base-4 trooper play areas.  They are heroes, remember?  Ever see George Lucas spend more than a few moments filming Jedi vs. dolts in his films?  No, he spent a good chunk of film on DV v. Kenobi and Palpatine v. Yoda, e.g., but not on Jedi entering the Jedi Temple.  There's a reason for that.

      Look at the success of BF2015.  Players still play that game to this day!  Every day, I can get a Walker Assault game .. and enjoy it (aside from the speeders killing team-mate abusers on Endor...).  Players, casual players can enjoy that game mode from Day 1.  You don't need, necessarily, to have the uber-elite Star Cards; even the rudimentary stuff is sufficient for decent game play.  Nor do POWER ELITES absurdly influence game play and outcomes as they do in BF2.

    2. Stop pretending that a majority of your player base is "Heroes".  Most of us in the real world know this.  Any time you focus development efforts on one or two new unique characters or units, the remaining 95% of the player base is getting the shaft of the development teams' time and effort.

      a.  Typically, it involves new threats and sudden death to the generic base-4 class player.
      b.  Typically, it also involves reducing damage to ELITES from the base-4 class player.  (Or nerfing Rolling as a defense).
      c.  Typically, it means more time staring at the Respawn Screen for the base-4 class player.
      d.  Typically, it means no attention paid to base-4 class player bug fixing.  (E.g., Thermal Detonator explosions are in desperate need of fixing.  Many explosions go straight through solid metal / rock walls, down stairs, across 100s of meters of screen space.  And, this has been an issue for months... months.)

      ELITE development, POWER development -- all those pretty lights and sounds -- only bump up the power-play of the < 5% of your player base.  The remaining 95% is getting the proverbial shaft.  And there is no excuse for it.  Because I enjoy playing as a base-4 trooper, I have been shunned Development Team time and effort for the past 18 months.  Is my money no good?  While only 10-15% of the player base play as an ELITE part of the time in a given CS/GA episode, at least 100% of us start off as a Base-4 player in the beginning.  85-90% remain as much through out the game.  Why are EA/DICE not spending commensurate amounts on the development of play for the 85-90% of the player base???

      Don't get up on my account..!

    3. ELITE-free Trooper play must be a thing.  A majority of your player base is NOT playing elites.  As much as they make plenty of noise on Reddit, here in the EA forums, Twitter, Twitch, etc., they are NOT the majority.  They are simply the VOCAL majority.  Huuuuuge difference.  Huuuuuge.

    If EA/DICE is serious about this franchise's success through the years, including that of Fallen Order, I hope-to-heck they take note of this post.  I'm sure we'll get a good chunk of Hero-worshipper responses being excessively VOCAL about how casual players just need to "git gud" and not die as much.  But, they are not concerned about the game's future as I and other Trooper players are.  The franchise is not in a good position if only 1.5% of players are reaching Player Rank 50+.

    Don't get up on my account..!
    You made this post saying “buh-bye” only to make another thread 2 days later. You also ranted about the devs not doing a good job when you probably don’t know how to code yourself... Is everything okay OP?
  • Disboy said:
    ID_8615 said:
    For the TL:DR crowd, buh-bye.

    I'm going to begin with a statistic that most may have never heard, seen, known. 
    • Less than 1.5% (1.43% as of today) of XBox players of BF2017 reach Player Rank 50.
    What does that mean?
    That means that very few BattlefrontII players (and I suspect this is across all platforms - PS4, PC, XBox) ever play long enough to become fully proficient in the base-4 classes.  Indeed, some may say, "all I care about is playing Assault and Enforcer .. " -- and that's fine.  Even if that is you, what I am about to describe still pertains to you.

    For the past 18-20 months of updates---from Grievous on---we've seen a huge Development push towards ever-more-powerful Heroes and Enforcers.  EA/DICE have been on the POWER-binge.  Each major release seemed to ONE-UP the previous release.  Grievous trumped everyone before.  Kenobi trumped Grievous.  Dooku trumped Kenobi.  And then Anakin trumped them all, and for a good time thereafter.  In-between those, we had the Infiltrators, and of late - the Droidekas and TX-130s.  Who cares?

    I do.  And so should a majority of the player base.  A vast majority of the player base.  It should be extremely disconcerting that a mere 1.5% of players ever reach Player Rank 50.  That number ought to be much closer to 25+% given all the Double and Triple XP events DICE have thrown at the players over the same time frame.

    Frankly, EA/DICE have decimated their own Star Wars game franchise with this pursuit of POWER.  Making it ever more easier to off the little ones in a given episode - particularly in the GA and CS formats.  It should be of little wonder WHY EA/DICE even felt it necessary to augment the player base of CS with AI bots..!!   It only underscores and vastly understates the point that the general player base of BattlefrontII is NOT being catered to with these POWER releases of EA/DICE. 

    When you pursue a course targeting the uber elite of your player base, at the cost of your 98%, you are essentially trashing your own future.

    GA/CS today is boring.  Boring because the play for the objectives of the game are inconsequential to nearly every player in the game.  Dismal Game Design is to blame.  Very, very few GA / CS games are now balanced---and, I won't even go in to the claim of EA/DICE's match-making algorithm being the culprit.  More than that, the whole game layout is slated heavily in favor of those who can attain the POWER players - Aerials, Infiltrators, TX-130s/Droidekas, and Heroes - first.  And who are those players?  Typically, they are the ones who best understand how to utilize those advantages given them.  Sure, you will have a few newbie hero players, but they tend to die within 30 seconds of grabbing a hero until they have some skill.  By-in-large, the same players time and time-again are the ones quickly gaining the requisite BP necessary to grab an Elite (Enforcer, Aerial, Infiltrator, Hero) and thereafter DOMINATE the landscape with the POWER afforded to them by the EA/DICE Development team.

    In the end, you have a dismally boring game, lopsided and dominated by an elite few.  The casual gamer who came to BattlefrontII, looking for a relatively fair fight, where skill, teamwork, objective-based play matter, will be sorely sent packing back to the Respawn Screen repeatedly by the POWER-users---the Hero-worshippers of the player base.  And, a good portion of those casual gamers are sent packing to go play APEX or Fortnite or Call of Duty, et. al., because they simply cannot get a fair fight being a base-4 trooper in just about ANY game format BF II offers -- even in BLAST, as the Aerials just dominate that landscape over base-4 troopers.

    What's more, ... getting back to the original statistic of 1.5% attaining Player Rank 50 ..., most gamers are not at a point in all classes where they have unlocked ALL weapons with ALL 3 options unlocked per weapon, let alone have purple status in all of the Star Cards for all classes.  Perhaps they may have in 1 or 2, but 3 or 4 is rare.  And to have adequate experience in all classes to be competent with all weaponry and skill sets is even rarer.  To unlock the most formidable weapons takes hours and hours and hours of play - the CR-2 w/ reduced recoil, the DC15 w/ Exploding shots, the SE-44C with rapid fire(!), the NT-242 w/ extra cooling - all of those typically require class-rank 50+ to even begin to have most of the advanced weaponry and Star Cards (level 20 for the base, basic Stinger Pistol for Specialists, e.g.) capable of standing up to the Elites of the game.

    Don't get up on my account..!  -- how snarky.  How heroic, right?

    But, this is just p__-poor Game Design and Game Development Roadmap on EA/DICE's part.  Why they continue to insist on having Elites mixed in with the Base-4 classes is beyond me.  Beyond comprehension.

    I fully understand EA/DICE wanting to create a "Star-Wars-y" feel to the game.  But, if that's true, why are they only following that part-of-the-time?  E.g., they want to have heroes inter-mixed with the Base-4 troopers, but they permit cross-era heroes?!?!  Ever wonder why they don't permit cross-era Troopers?   Why can't I play my ROG-R skin'd Officer on CRAIT for the First Order?!?!  Correct---it'd be ugly.  Just like the cross-era heroes.  They stick out like sore thumbs---like the Han Solo Hoth skin on Tatooine.

    Don't get up my account..!

    How about the fact that on Geonosis, your given the story-line that your Clone Trooper squad NEEDS to call for help to get extra AT-TEs sent in from afar.  You cannot use LAATs ... ever ... yet, those and troopers are battling all AROUND you, on either-side of the GA Geonisis battlefront.  You see LAATs whizzing all around you, yet you can't even call up one?  Where'd all the TX-130's suddenly come from?  Were those just parked on the other side of the mountain such they could only be used Stage 2 on?  Ditto for the Droids---were their tanks just parked too far away they never thought it necessary to bring those with them to attack the Clones in Stage 1?

    Don't get up on my account...!

    If EA/DICE really want this franchise to succeed, several things need to happen... quickly.
    1. Heroes need something heroic to do in the game.  EA/DICE need to combine formats -- GA & Extraction, say.  Open up with Kashyyyk GA.  Play begins at Stage 1 as normal.  As players build up BP, they can opt to play in the Elite Track where an Extraction episode battle rages on.  Clone Trooper heroes are attempting to extract a bonus shipment of Ion Blasters for their team to use.  IF they get it extracted successfully, the Clone team gains possession of a 4th and lucrative load of Ion Blasters to use against the Droid MTTs.

      Conversely, on Stage 2 (Juggernauts), the Droid team would be attempting to extract an extra set of Detonators (essentially extra team tickets to set detonators on each Juggernaut---e.g., an extra 50 or 100 tickets if successful).

      Elite Tracks would be open to any class (base-4 included, but the players would be given a very stern, verbal warning that they were entering a perilous task).  Aerials, Infiltrators, Droidekas, Heroes would only be allowed in to these Elite Track areas.  They would NOT be permitted in to the base-4 trooper play areas.  They are heroes, remember?  Ever see George Lucas spend more than a few moments filming Jedi vs. dolts in his films?  No, he spent a good chunk of film on DV v. Kenobi and Palpatine v. Yoda, e.g., but not on Jedi entering the Jedi Temple.  There's a reason for that.

      Look at the success of BF2015.  Players still play that game to this day!  Every day, I can get a Walker Assault game .. and enjoy it (aside from the speeders killing team-mate abusers on Endor...).  Players, casual players can enjoy that game mode from Day 1.  You don't need, necessarily, to have the uber-elite Star Cards; even the rudimentary stuff is sufficient for decent game play.  Nor do POWER ELITES absurdly influence game play and outcomes as they do in BF2.

    2. Stop pretending that a majority of your player base is "Heroes".  Most of us in the real world know this.  Any time you focus development efforts on one or two new unique characters or units, the remaining 95% of the player base is getting the shaft of the development teams' time and effort.

      a.  Typically, it involves new threats and sudden death to the generic base-4 class player.
      b.  Typically, it also involves reducing damage to ELITES from the base-4 class player.  (Or nerfing Rolling as a defense).
      c.  Typically, it means more time staring at the Respawn Screen for the base-4 class player.
      d.  Typically, it means no attention paid to base-4 class player bug fixing.  (E.g., Thermal Detonator explosions are in desperate need of fixing.  Many explosions go straight through solid metal / rock walls, down stairs, across 100s of meters of screen space.  And, this has been an issue for months... months.)

      ELITE development, POWER development -- all those pretty lights and sounds -- only bump up the power-play of the < 5% of your player base.  The remaining 95% is getting the proverbial shaft.  And there is no excuse for it.  Because I enjoy playing as a base-4 trooper, I have been shunned Development Team time and effort for the past 18 months.  Is my money no good?  While only 10-15% of the player base play as an ELITE part of the time in a given CS/GA episode, at least 100% of us start off as a Base-4 player in the beginning.  85-90% remain as much through out the game.  Why are EA/DICE not spending commensurate amounts on the development of play for the 85-90% of the player base???

      Don't get up on my account..!

    3. ELITE-free Trooper play must be a thing.  A majority of your player base is NOT playing elites.  As much as they make plenty of noise on Reddit, here in the EA forums, Twitter, Twitch, etc., they are NOT the majority.  They are simply the VOCAL majority.  Huuuuuge difference.  Huuuuuge.

    If EA/DICE is serious about this franchise's success through the years, including that of Fallen Order, I hope-to-heck they take note of this post.  I'm sure we'll get a good chunk of Hero-worshipper responses being excessively VOCAL about how casual players just need to "git gud" and not die as much.  But, they are not concerned about the game's future as I and other Trooper players are.  The franchise is not in a good position if only 1.5% of players are reaching Player Rank 50+.

    Don't get up on my account..!
    You made this post saying “buh-bye” only to make another thread 2 days later. You also ranted about the devs not doing a good job when you probably don’t know how to code yourself... Is everything okay OP?
    What does noticing problems within a game have to do with him being able to code? Are you a chef and can taste when food is bad? Because if your not a chef, then by your reasoning what right do you have to say that food is bad. 
  • Disboy
    175 posts Member
    Disboy said:
    ID_8615 said:
    For the TL:DR crowd, buh-bye.

    I'm going to begin with a statistic that most may have never heard, seen, known. 
    • Less than 1.5% (1.43% as of today) of XBox players of BF2017 reach Player Rank 50.
    What does that mean?
    That means that very few BattlefrontII players (and I suspect this is across all platforms - PS4, PC, XBox) ever play long enough to become fully proficient in the base-4 classes.  Indeed, some may say, "all I care about is playing Assault and Enforcer .. " -- and that's fine.  Even if that is you, what I am about to describe still pertains to you.

    For the past 18-20 months of updates---from Grievous on---we've seen a huge Development push towards ever-more-powerful Heroes and Enforcers.  EA/DICE have been on the POWER-binge.  Each major release seemed to ONE-UP the previous release.  Grievous trumped everyone before.  Kenobi trumped Grievous.  Dooku trumped Kenobi.  And then Anakin trumped them all, and for a good time thereafter.  In-between those, we had the Infiltrators, and of late - the Droidekas and TX-130s.  Who cares?

    I do.  And so should a majority of the player base.  A vast majority of the player base.  It should be extremely disconcerting that a mere 1.5% of players ever reach Player Rank 50.  That number ought to be much closer to 25+% given all the Double and Triple XP events DICE have thrown at the players over the same time frame.

    Frankly, EA/DICE have decimated their own Star Wars game franchise with this pursuit of POWER.  Making it ever more easier to off the little ones in a given episode - particularly in the GA and CS formats.  It should be of little wonder WHY EA/DICE even felt it necessary to augment the player base of CS with AI bots..!!   It only underscores and vastly understates the point that the general player base of BattlefrontII is NOT being catered to with these POWER releases of EA/DICE. 

    When you pursue a course targeting the uber elite of your player base, at the cost of your 98%, you are essentially trashing your own future.

    GA/CS today is boring.  Boring because the play for the objectives of the game are inconsequential to nearly every player in the game.  Dismal Game Design is to blame.  Very, very few GA / CS games are now balanced---and, I won't even go in to the claim of EA/DICE's match-making algorithm being the culprit.  More than that, the whole game layout is slated heavily in favor of those who can attain the POWER players - Aerials, Infiltrators, TX-130s/Droidekas, and Heroes - first.  And who are those players?  Typically, they are the ones who best understand how to utilize those advantages given them.  Sure, you will have a few newbie hero players, but they tend to die within 30 seconds of grabbing a hero until they have some skill.  By-in-large, the same players time and time-again are the ones quickly gaining the requisite BP necessary to grab an Elite (Enforcer, Aerial, Infiltrator, Hero) and thereafter DOMINATE the landscape with the POWER afforded to them by the EA/DICE Development team.

    In the end, you have a dismally boring game, lopsided and dominated by an elite few.  The casual gamer who came to BattlefrontII, looking for a relatively fair fight, where skill, teamwork, objective-based play matter, will be sorely sent packing back to the Respawn Screen repeatedly by the POWER-users---the Hero-worshippers of the player base.  And, a good portion of those casual gamers are sent packing to go play APEX or Fortnite or Call of Duty, et. al., because they simply cannot get a fair fight being a base-4 trooper in just about ANY game format BF II offers -- even in BLAST, as the Aerials just dominate that landscape over base-4 troopers.

    What's more, ... getting back to the original statistic of 1.5% attaining Player Rank 50 ..., most gamers are not at a point in all classes where they have unlocked ALL weapons with ALL 3 options unlocked per weapon, let alone have purple status in all of the Star Cards for all classes.  Perhaps they may have in 1 or 2, but 3 or 4 is rare.  And to have adequate experience in all classes to be competent with all weaponry and skill sets is even rarer.  To unlock the most formidable weapons takes hours and hours and hours of play - the CR-2 w/ reduced recoil, the DC15 w/ Exploding shots, the SE-44C with rapid fire(!), the NT-242 w/ extra cooling - all of those typically require class-rank 50+ to even begin to have most of the advanced weaponry and Star Cards (level 20 for the base, basic Stinger Pistol for Specialists, e.g.) capable of standing up to the Elites of the game.

    Don't get up on my account..!  -- how snarky.  How heroic, right?

    But, this is just p__-poor Game Design and Game Development Roadmap on EA/DICE's part.  Why they continue to insist on having Elites mixed in with the Base-4 classes is beyond me.  Beyond comprehension.

    I fully understand EA/DICE wanting to create a "Star-Wars-y" feel to the game.  But, if that's true, why are they only following that part-of-the-time?  E.g., they want to have heroes inter-mixed with the Base-4 troopers, but they permit cross-era heroes?!?!  Ever wonder why they don't permit cross-era Troopers?   Why can't I play my ROG-R skin'd Officer on CRAIT for the First Order?!?!  Correct---it'd be ugly.  Just like the cross-era heroes.  They stick out like sore thumbs---like the Han Solo Hoth skin on Tatooine.

    Don't get up my account..!

    How about the fact that on Geonosis, your given the story-line that your Clone Trooper squad NEEDS to call for help to get extra AT-TEs sent in from afar.  You cannot use LAATs ... ever ... yet, those and troopers are battling all AROUND you, on either-side of the GA Geonisis battlefront.  You see LAATs whizzing all around you, yet you can't even call up one?  Where'd all the TX-130's suddenly come from?  Were those just parked on the other side of the mountain such they could only be used Stage 2 on?  Ditto for the Droids---were their tanks just parked too far away they never thought it necessary to bring those with them to attack the Clones in Stage 1?

    Don't get up on my account...!

    If EA/DICE really want this franchise to succeed, several things need to happen... quickly.
    1. Heroes need something heroic to do in the game.  EA/DICE need to combine formats -- GA & Extraction, say.  Open up with Kashyyyk GA.  Play begins at Stage 1 as normal.  As players build up BP, they can opt to play in the Elite Track where an Extraction episode battle rages on.  Clone Trooper heroes are attempting to extract a bonus shipment of Ion Blasters for their team to use.  IF they get it extracted successfully, the Clone team gains possession of a 4th and lucrative load of Ion Blasters to use against the Droid MTTs.

      Conversely, on Stage 2 (Juggernauts), the Droid team would be attempting to extract an extra set of Detonators (essentially extra team tickets to set detonators on each Juggernaut---e.g., an extra 50 or 100 tickets if successful).

      Elite Tracks would be open to any class (base-4 included, but the players would be given a very stern, verbal warning that they were entering a perilous task).  Aerials, Infiltrators, Droidekas, Heroes would only be allowed in to these Elite Track areas.  They would NOT be permitted in to the base-4 trooper play areas.  They are heroes, remember?  Ever see George Lucas spend more than a few moments filming Jedi vs. dolts in his films?  No, he spent a good chunk of film on DV v. Kenobi and Palpatine v. Yoda, e.g., but not on Jedi entering the Jedi Temple.  There's a reason for that.

      Look at the success of BF2015.  Players still play that game to this day!  Every day, I can get a Walker Assault game .. and enjoy it (aside from the speeders killing team-mate abusers on Endor...).  Players, casual players can enjoy that game mode from Day 1.  You don't need, necessarily, to have the uber-elite Star Cards; even the rudimentary stuff is sufficient for decent game play.  Nor do POWER ELITES absurdly influence game play and outcomes as they do in BF2.

    2. Stop pretending that a majority of your player base is "Heroes".  Most of us in the real world know this.  Any time you focus development efforts on one or two new unique characters or units, the remaining 95% of the player base is getting the shaft of the development teams' time and effort.

      a.  Typically, it involves new threats and sudden death to the generic base-4 class player.
      b.  Typically, it also involves reducing damage to ELITES from the base-4 class player.  (Or nerfing Rolling as a defense).
      c.  Typically, it means more time staring at the Respawn Screen for the base-4 class player.
      d.  Typically, it means no attention paid to base-4 class player bug fixing.  (E.g., Thermal Detonator explosions are in desperate need of fixing.  Many explosions go straight through solid metal / rock walls, down stairs, across 100s of meters of screen space.  And, this has been an issue for months... months.)

      ELITE development, POWER development -- all those pretty lights and sounds -- only bump up the power-play of the < 5% of your player base.  The remaining 95% is getting the proverbial shaft.  And there is no excuse for it.  Because I enjoy playing as a base-4 trooper, I have been shunned Development Team time and effort for the past 18 months.  Is my money no good?  While only 10-15% of the player base play as an ELITE part of the time in a given CS/GA episode, at least 100% of us start off as a Base-4 player in the beginning.  85-90% remain as much through out the game.  Why are EA/DICE not spending commensurate amounts on the development of play for the 85-90% of the player base???

      Don't get up on my account..!

    3. ELITE-free Trooper play must be a thing.  A majority of your player base is NOT playing elites.  As much as they make plenty of noise on Reddit, here in the EA forums, Twitter, Twitch, etc., they are NOT the majority.  They are simply the VOCAL majority.  Huuuuuge difference.  Huuuuuge.

    If EA/DICE is serious about this franchise's success through the years, including that of Fallen Order, I hope-to-heck they take note of this post.  I'm sure we'll get a good chunk of Hero-worshipper responses being excessively VOCAL about how casual players just need to "git gud" and not die as much.  But, they are not concerned about the game's future as I and other Trooper players are.  The franchise is not in a good position if only 1.5% of players are reaching Player Rank 50+.

    Don't get up on my account..!
    You made this post saying “buh-bye” only to make another thread 2 days later. You also ranted about the devs not doing a good job when you probably don’t know how to code yourself... Is everything okay OP?
    What does noticing problems within a game have to do with him being able to code? Are you a chef and can taste when food is bad? Because if your not a chef, then by your reasoning what right do you have to say that food is bad. 
    He’s trying to tell them what to do in order to be “successful” yet I doubt he’s ever even programmed a simple if/else statement. Coding is hard, that’s why few people do it. Anyone can be a “dreamer” or a “visionary” but the reality of it is only a couple of those visions can be achieved in a given time.

    Regarding your chef analogy; everyone has a pallet, but only expert Chef’s have developed ones that can decide whether one item truly is good or bad. So yes, only chefs have the right to have a say whether food is objectively good or bad, everyone else is opinionated which is really based off one perspective, rather than many. In other words the OP thinks this game should revolve around his “ideas” rather than the polls of the community, and I have a sense you are the same...
  • Disboy said:
    Disboy said:
    ID_8615 said:
    For the TL:DR crowd, buh-bye.

    I'm going to begin with a statistic that most may have never heard, seen, known. 
    • Less than 1.5% (1.43% as of today) of XBox players of BF2017 reach Player Rank 50.
    What does that mean?
    That means that very few BattlefrontII players (and I suspect this is across all platforms - PS4, PC, XBox) ever play long enough to become fully proficient in the base-4 classes.  Indeed, some may say, "all I care about is playing Assault and Enforcer .. " -- and that's fine.  Even if that is you, what I am about to describe still pertains to you.

    For the past 18-20 months of updates---from Grievous on---we've seen a huge Development push towards ever-more-powerful Heroes and Enforcers.  EA/DICE have been on the POWER-binge.  Each major release seemed to ONE-UP the previous release.  Grievous trumped everyone before.  Kenobi trumped Grievous.  Dooku trumped Kenobi.  And then Anakin trumped them all, and for a good time thereafter.  In-between those, we had the Infiltrators, and of late - the Droidekas and TX-130s.  Who cares?

    I do.  And so should a majority of the player base.  A vast majority of the player base.  It should be extremely disconcerting that a mere 1.5% of players ever reach Player Rank 50.  That number ought to be much closer to 25+% given all the Double and Triple XP events DICE have thrown at the players over the same time frame.

    Frankly, EA/DICE have decimated their own Star Wars game franchise with this pursuit of POWER.  Making it ever more easier to off the little ones in a given episode - particularly in the GA and CS formats.  It should be of little wonder WHY EA/DICE even felt it necessary to augment the player base of CS with AI bots..!!   It only underscores and vastly understates the point that the general player base of BattlefrontII is NOT being catered to with these POWER releases of EA/DICE. 

    When you pursue a course targeting the uber elite of your player base, at the cost of your 98%, you are essentially trashing your own future.

    GA/CS today is boring.  Boring because the play for the objectives of the game are inconsequential to nearly every player in the game.  Dismal Game Design is to blame.  Very, very few GA / CS games are now balanced---and, I won't even go in to the claim of EA/DICE's match-making algorithm being the culprit.  More than that, the whole game layout is slated heavily in favor of those who can attain the POWER players - Aerials, Infiltrators, TX-130s/Droidekas, and Heroes - first.  And who are those players?  Typically, they are the ones who best understand how to utilize those advantages given them.  Sure, you will have a few newbie hero players, but they tend to die within 30 seconds of grabbing a hero until they have some skill.  By-in-large, the same players time and time-again are the ones quickly gaining the requisite BP necessary to grab an Elite (Enforcer, Aerial, Infiltrator, Hero) and thereafter DOMINATE the landscape with the POWER afforded to them by the EA/DICE Development team.

    In the end, you have a dismally boring game, lopsided and dominated by an elite few.  The casual gamer who came to BattlefrontII, looking for a relatively fair fight, where skill, teamwork, objective-based play matter, will be sorely sent packing back to the Respawn Screen repeatedly by the POWER-users---the Hero-worshippers of the player base.  And, a good portion of those casual gamers are sent packing to go play APEX or Fortnite or Call of Duty, et. al., because they simply cannot get a fair fight being a base-4 trooper in just about ANY game format BF II offers -- even in BLAST, as the Aerials just dominate that landscape over base-4 troopers.

    What's more, ... getting back to the original statistic of 1.5% attaining Player Rank 50 ..., most gamers are not at a point in all classes where they have unlocked ALL weapons with ALL 3 options unlocked per weapon, let alone have purple status in all of the Star Cards for all classes.  Perhaps they may have in 1 or 2, but 3 or 4 is rare.  And to have adequate experience in all classes to be competent with all weaponry and skill sets is even rarer.  To unlock the most formidable weapons takes hours and hours and hours of play - the CR-2 w/ reduced recoil, the DC15 w/ Exploding shots, the SE-44C with rapid fire(!), the NT-242 w/ extra cooling - all of those typically require class-rank 50+ to even begin to have most of the advanced weaponry and Star Cards (level 20 for the base, basic Stinger Pistol for Specialists, e.g.) capable of standing up to the Elites of the game.

    Don't get up on my account..!  -- how snarky.  How heroic, right?

    But, this is just p__-poor Game Design and Game Development Roadmap on EA/DICE's part.  Why they continue to insist on having Elites mixed in with the Base-4 classes is beyond me.  Beyond comprehension.

    I fully understand EA/DICE wanting to create a "Star-Wars-y" feel to the game.  But, if that's true, why are they only following that part-of-the-time?  E.g., they want to have heroes inter-mixed with the Base-4 troopers, but they permit cross-era heroes?!?!  Ever wonder why they don't permit cross-era Troopers?   Why can't I play my ROG-R skin'd Officer on CRAIT for the First Order?!?!  Correct---it'd be ugly.  Just like the cross-era heroes.  They stick out like sore thumbs---like the Han Solo Hoth skin on Tatooine.

    Don't get up my account..!

    How about the fact that on Geonosis, your given the story-line that your Clone Trooper squad NEEDS to call for help to get extra AT-TEs sent in from afar.  You cannot use LAATs ... ever ... yet, those and troopers are battling all AROUND you, on either-side of the GA Geonisis battlefront.  You see LAATs whizzing all around you, yet you can't even call up one?  Where'd all the TX-130's suddenly come from?  Were those just parked on the other side of the mountain such they could only be used Stage 2 on?  Ditto for the Droids---were their tanks just parked too far away they never thought it necessary to bring those with them to attack the Clones in Stage 1?

    Don't get up on my account...!

    If EA/DICE really want this franchise to succeed, several things need to happen... quickly.
    1. Heroes need something heroic to do in the game.  EA/DICE need to combine formats -- GA & Extraction, say.  Open up with Kashyyyk GA.  Play begins at Stage 1 as normal.  As players build up BP, they can opt to play in the Elite Track where an Extraction episode battle rages on.  Clone Trooper heroes are attempting to extract a bonus shipment of Ion Blasters for their team to use.  IF they get it extracted successfully, the Clone team gains possession of a 4th and lucrative load of Ion Blasters to use against the Droid MTTs.

      Conversely, on Stage 2 (Juggernauts), the Droid team would be attempting to extract an extra set of Detonators (essentially extra team tickets to set detonators on each Juggernaut---e.g., an extra 50 or 100 tickets if successful).

      Elite Tracks would be open to any class (base-4 included, but the players would be given a very stern, verbal warning that they were entering a perilous task).  Aerials, Infiltrators, Droidekas, Heroes would only be allowed in to these Elite Track areas.  They would NOT be permitted in to the base-4 trooper play areas.  They are heroes, remember?  Ever see George Lucas spend more than a few moments filming Jedi vs. dolts in his films?  No, he spent a good chunk of film on DV v. Kenobi and Palpatine v. Yoda, e.g., but not on Jedi entering the Jedi Temple.  There's a reason for that.

      Look at the success of BF2015.  Players still play that game to this day!  Every day, I can get a Walker Assault game .. and enjoy it (aside from the speeders killing team-mate abusers on Endor...).  Players, casual players can enjoy that game mode from Day 1.  You don't need, necessarily, to have the uber-elite Star Cards; even the rudimentary stuff is sufficient for decent game play.  Nor do POWER ELITES absurdly influence game play and outcomes as they do in BF2.

    2. Stop pretending that a majority of your player base is "Heroes".  Most of us in the real world know this.  Any time you focus development efforts on one or two new unique characters or units, the remaining 95% of the player base is getting the shaft of the development teams' time and effort.

      a.  Typically, it involves new threats and sudden death to the generic base-4 class player.
      b.  Typically, it also involves reducing damage to ELITES from the base-4 class player.  (Or nerfing Rolling as a defense).
      c.  Typically, it means more time staring at the Respawn Screen for the base-4 class player.
      d.  Typically, it means no attention paid to base-4 class player bug fixing.  (E.g., Thermal Detonator explosions are in desperate need of fixing.  Many explosions go straight through solid metal / rock walls, down stairs, across 100s of meters of screen space.  And, this has been an issue for months... months.)

      ELITE development, POWER development -- all those pretty lights and sounds -- only bump up the power-play of the < 5% of your player base.  The remaining 95% is getting the proverbial shaft.  And there is no excuse for it.  Because I enjoy playing as a base-4 trooper, I have been shunned Development Team time and effort for the past 18 months.  Is my money no good?  While only 10-15% of the player base play as an ELITE part of the time in a given CS/GA episode, at least 100% of us start off as a Base-4 player in the beginning.  85-90% remain as much through out the game.  Why are EA/DICE not spending commensurate amounts on the development of play for the 85-90% of the player base???

      Don't get up on my account..!

    3. ELITE-free Trooper play must be a thing.  A majority of your player base is NOT playing elites.  As much as they make plenty of noise on Reddit, here in the EA forums, Twitter, Twitch, etc., they are NOT the majority.  They are simply the VOCAL majority.  Huuuuuge difference.  Huuuuuge.

    If EA/DICE is serious about this franchise's success through the years, including that of Fallen Order, I hope-to-heck they take note of this post.  I'm sure we'll get a good chunk of Hero-worshipper responses being excessively VOCAL about how casual players just need to "git gud" and not die as much.  But, they are not concerned about the game's future as I and other Trooper players are.  The franchise is not in a good position if only 1.5% of players are reaching Player Rank 50+.

    Don't get up on my account..!
    You made this post saying “buh-bye” only to make another thread 2 days later. You also ranted about the devs not doing a good job when you probably don’t know how to code yourself... Is everything okay OP?
    What does noticing problems within a game have to do with him being able to code? Are you a chef and can taste when food is bad? Because if your not a chef, then by your reasoning what right do you have to say that food is bad. 
    He’s trying to tell them what to do in order to be “successful” yet I doubt he’s ever even programmed a simple if/else statement. Coding is hard, that’s why few people do it. Anyone can be a “dreamer” or a “visionary” but the reality of it is only a couple of those visions can be achieved in a given time.

    Regarding your chef analogy; everyone has a pallet, but only expert Chef’s have developed ones that can decide whether one item truly is good or bad. So yes, only chefs have the right to have a say whether food is objectively good or bad, everyone else is opinionated which is really based off one perspective, rather than many. In other words the OP thinks this game should revolve around his “ideas” rather than the polls of the community, and I have a sense you are the same...
    So with your analysis of my chef analogy, you said that only an elite few within the industry should determine if someone is good or bad. Yet then you go on to say that basically they should base the game off of the "polls of the community". Make up your mind, is it these experts who things should be catered to, or the "community" as you put it? Because I'm saying the way people react to this game is similar in the sense to how people react to good or bad food. Everyone on earth can tell if something is good food, we don't need experts telling us. It mostly comes down to whether or not the majority of a population enjoys a taste or not. Just like how everyone in the gaming community can tell if something is a good game or not, and how it comes down to what the majority believe is good. So no, you definately don't need to work in the gaming industry to know whether or not the game itself is fun to play, and an expert is never the person that makes the decision on if it's good or not. The popularity of it is. Round up a thousand gaming experts on and if all of them told you that N64 james bond Goldeneye was bad, you would believe them because they can code and you can't? Or get a thousand chefs together and they say KFC tastes bad, you would believe them just coz they are chefs? I mean your opinion would matter to yourself, but you would have to concede that the majority like KFC. So the majority believe this game is majorly flawed in many ways, and we sure as hell don't need to be coders to know that. 

    Also, OP didn't once have a suggestion towards any technical aspect of how they should go about coding the game. So you can't fault him on that and say he was giving them suggestions of technical aspects on how to do their job. He was just speaking in more generalized laments terms and offering his own criticism, which is valid because the game is marketed to the general public in a way that doesn't require any coding expertise in order to play the game. 
  • Disboy
    175 posts Member
    Disboy said:
    Disboy said:
    ID_8615 said:
    For the TL:DR crowd, buh-bye.

    I'm going to begin with a statistic that most may have never heard, seen, known. 
    • Less than 1.5% (1.43% as of today) of XBox players of BF2017 reach Player Rank 50.
    What does that mean?
    That means that very few BattlefrontII players (and I suspect this is across all platforms - PS4, PC, XBox) ever play long enough to become fully proficient in the base-4 classes.  Indeed, some may say, "all I care about is playing Assault and Enforcer .. " -- and that's fine.  Even if that is you, what I am about to describe still pertains to you.

    For the past 18-20 months of updates---from Grievous on---we've seen a huge Development push towards ever-more-powerful Heroes and Enforcers.  EA/DICE have been on the POWER-binge.  Each major release seemed to ONE-UP the previous release.  Grievous trumped everyone before.  Kenobi trumped Grievous.  Dooku trumped Kenobi.  And then Anakin trumped them all, and for a good time thereafter.  In-between those, we had the Infiltrators, and of late - the Droidekas and TX-130s.  Who cares?

    I do.  And so should a majority of the player base.  A vast majority of the player base.  It should be extremely disconcerting that a mere 1.5% of players ever reach Player Rank 50.  That number ought to be much closer to 25+% given all the Double and Triple XP events DICE have thrown at the players over the same time frame.

    Frankly, EA/DICE have decimated their own Star Wars game franchise with this pursuit of POWER.  Making it ever more easier to off the little ones in a given episode - particularly in the GA and CS formats.  It should be of little wonder WHY EA/DICE even felt it necessary to augment the player base of CS with AI bots..!!   It only underscores and vastly understates the point that the general player base of BattlefrontII is NOT being catered to with these POWER releases of EA/DICE. 

    When you pursue a course targeting the uber elite of your player base, at the cost of your 98%, you are essentially trashing your own future.

    GA/CS today is boring.  Boring because the play for the objectives of the game are inconsequential to nearly every player in the game.  Dismal Game Design is to blame.  Very, very few GA / CS games are now balanced---and, I won't even go in to the claim of EA/DICE's match-making algorithm being the culprit.  More than that, the whole game layout is slated heavily in favor of those who can attain the POWER players - Aerials, Infiltrators, TX-130s/Droidekas, and Heroes - first.  And who are those players?  Typically, they are the ones who best understand how to utilize those advantages given them.  Sure, you will have a few newbie hero players, but they tend to die within 30 seconds of grabbing a hero until they have some skill.  By-in-large, the same players time and time-again are the ones quickly gaining the requisite BP necessary to grab an Elite (Enforcer, Aerial, Infiltrator, Hero) and thereafter DOMINATE the landscape with the POWER afforded to them by the EA/DICE Development team.

    In the end, you have a dismally boring game, lopsided and dominated by an elite few.  The casual gamer who came to BattlefrontII, looking for a relatively fair fight, where skill, teamwork, objective-based play matter, will be sorely sent packing back to the Respawn Screen repeatedly by the POWER-users---the Hero-worshippers of the player base.  And, a good portion of those casual gamers are sent packing to go play APEX or Fortnite or Call of Duty, et. al., because they simply cannot get a fair fight being a base-4 trooper in just about ANY game format BF II offers -- even in BLAST, as the Aerials just dominate that landscape over base-4 troopers.

    What's more, ... getting back to the original statistic of 1.5% attaining Player Rank 50 ..., most gamers are not at a point in all classes where they have unlocked ALL weapons with ALL 3 options unlocked per weapon, let alone have purple status in all of the Star Cards for all classes.  Perhaps they may have in 1 or 2, but 3 or 4 is rare.  And to have adequate experience in all classes to be competent with all weaponry and skill sets is even rarer.  To unlock the most formidable weapons takes hours and hours and hours of play - the CR-2 w/ reduced recoil, the DC15 w/ Exploding shots, the SE-44C with rapid fire(!), the NT-242 w/ extra cooling - all of those typically require class-rank 50+ to even begin to have most of the advanced weaponry and Star Cards (level 20 for the base, basic Stinger Pistol for Specialists, e.g.) capable of standing up to the Elites of the game.

    Don't get up on my account..!  -- how snarky.  How heroic, right?

    But, this is just p__-poor Game Design and Game Development Roadmap on EA/DICE's part.  Why they continue to insist on having Elites mixed in with the Base-4 classes is beyond me.  Beyond comprehension.

    I fully understand EA/DICE wanting to create a "Star-Wars-y" feel to the game.  But, if that's true, why are they only following that part-of-the-time?  E.g., they want to have heroes inter-mixed with the Base-4 troopers, but they permit cross-era heroes?!?!  Ever wonder why they don't permit cross-era Troopers?   Why can't I play my ROG-R skin'd Officer on CRAIT for the First Order?!?!  Correct---it'd be ugly.  Just like the cross-era heroes.  They stick out like sore thumbs---like the Han Solo Hoth skin on Tatooine.

    Don't get up my account..!

    How about the fact that on Geonosis, your given the story-line that your Clone Trooper squad NEEDS to call for help to get extra AT-TEs sent in from afar.  You cannot use LAATs ... ever ... yet, those and troopers are battling all AROUND you, on either-side of the GA Geonisis battlefront.  You see LAATs whizzing all around you, yet you can't even call up one?  Where'd all the TX-130's suddenly come from?  Were those just parked on the other side of the mountain such they could only be used Stage 2 on?  Ditto for the Droids---were their tanks just parked too far away they never thought it necessary to bring those with them to attack the Clones in Stage 1?

    Don't get up on my account...!

    If EA/DICE really want this franchise to succeed, several things need to happen... quickly.
    1. Heroes need something heroic to do in the game.  EA/DICE need to combine formats -- GA & Extraction, say.  Open up with Kashyyyk GA.  Play begins at Stage 1 as normal.  As players build up BP, they can opt to play in the Elite Track where an Extraction episode battle rages on.  Clone Trooper heroes are attempting to extract a bonus shipment of Ion Blasters for their team to use.  IF they get it extracted successfully, the Clone team gains possession of a 4th and lucrative load of Ion Blasters to use against the Droid MTTs.

      Conversely, on Stage 2 (Juggernauts), the Droid team would be attempting to extract an extra set of Detonators (essentially extra team tickets to set detonators on each Juggernaut---e.g., an extra 50 or 100 tickets if successful).

      Elite Tracks would be open to any class (base-4 included, but the players would be given a very stern, verbal warning that they were entering a perilous task).  Aerials, Infiltrators, Droidekas, Heroes would only be allowed in to these Elite Track areas.  They would NOT be permitted in to the base-4 trooper play areas.  They are heroes, remember?  Ever see George Lucas spend more than a few moments filming Jedi vs. dolts in his films?  No, he spent a good chunk of film on DV v. Kenobi and Palpatine v. Yoda, e.g., but not on Jedi entering the Jedi Temple.  There's a reason for that.

      Look at the success of BF2015.  Players still play that game to this day!  Every day, I can get a Walker Assault game .. and enjoy it (aside from the speeders killing team-mate abusers on Endor...).  Players, casual players can enjoy that game mode from Day 1.  You don't need, necessarily, to have the uber-elite Star Cards; even the rudimentary stuff is sufficient for decent game play.  Nor do POWER ELITES absurdly influence game play and outcomes as they do in BF2.

    2. Stop pretending that a majority of your player base is "Heroes".  Most of us in the real world know this.  Any time you focus development efforts on one or two new unique characters or units, the remaining 95% of the player base is getting the shaft of the development teams' time and effort.

      a.  Typically, it involves new threats and sudden death to the generic base-4 class player.
      b.  Typically, it also involves reducing damage to ELITES from the base-4 class player.  (Or nerfing Rolling as a defense).
      c.  Typically, it means more time staring at the Respawn Screen for the base-4 class player.
      d.  Typically, it means no attention paid to base-4 class player bug fixing.  (E.g., Thermal Detonator explosions are in desperate need of fixing.  Many explosions go straight through solid metal / rock walls, down stairs, across 100s of meters of screen space.  And, this has been an issue for months... months.)

      ELITE development, POWER development -- all those pretty lights and sounds -- only bump up the power-play of the < 5% of your player base.  The remaining 95% is getting the proverbial shaft.  And there is no excuse for it.  Because I enjoy playing as a base-4 trooper, I have been shunned Development Team time and effort for the past 18 months.  Is my money no good?  While only 10-15% of the player base play as an ELITE part of the time in a given CS/GA episode, at least 100% of us start off as a Base-4 player in the beginning.  85-90% remain as much through out the game.  Why are EA/DICE not spending commensurate amounts on the development of play for the 85-90% of the player base???

      Don't get up on my account..!

    3. ELITE-free Trooper play must be a thing.  A majority of your player base is NOT playing elites.  As much as they make plenty of noise on Reddit, here in the EA forums, Twitter, Twitch, etc., they are NOT the majority.  They are simply the VOCAL majority.  Huuuuuge difference.  Huuuuuge.

    If EA/DICE is serious about this franchise's success through the years, including that of Fallen Order, I hope-to-heck they take note of this post.  I'm sure we'll get a good chunk of Hero-worshipper responses being excessively VOCAL about how casual players just need to "git gud" and not die as much.  But, they are not concerned about the game's future as I and other Trooper players are.  The franchise is not in a good position if only 1.5% of players are reaching Player Rank 50+.

    Don't get up on my account..!
    You made this post saying “buh-bye” only to make another thread 2 days later. You also ranted about the devs not doing a good job when you probably don’t know how to code yourself... Is everything okay OP?
    What does noticing problems within a game have to do with him being able to code? Are you a chef and can taste when food is bad? Because if your not a chef, then by your reasoning what right do you have to say that food is bad. 
    He’s trying to tell them what to do in order to be “successful” yet I doubt he’s ever even programmed a simple if/else statement. Coding is hard, that’s why few people do it. Anyone can be a “dreamer” or a “visionary” but the reality of it is only a couple of those visions can be achieved in a given time.

    Regarding your chef analogy; everyone has a pallet, but only expert Chef’s have developed ones that can decide whether one item truly is good or bad. So yes, only chefs have the right to have a say whether food is objectively good or bad, everyone else is opinionated which is really based off one perspective, rather than many. In other words the OP thinks this game should revolve around his “ideas” rather than the polls of the community, and I have a sense you are the same...
    So with your analysis of my chef analogy, you said that only an elite few within the industry should determine if someone is good or bad. Yet then you go on to say that basically they should base the game off of the "polls of the community". Make up your mind, is it these experts who things should be catered to, or the "community" as you put it? Because I'm saying the way people react to this game is similar in the sense to how people react to good or bad food. Everyone on earth can tell if something is good food, we don't need experts telling us. It mostly comes down to whether or not the majority of a population enjoys a taste or not. Just like how everyone in the gaming community can tell if something is a good game or not, and how it comes down to what the majority believe is good. So no, you definately don't need to work in the gaming industry to know whether or not the game itself is fun to play, and an expert is never the person that makes the decision on if it's good or not. The popularity of it is. Round up a thousand gaming experts on and if all of them told you that N64 james bond Goldeneye was bad, you would believe them because they can code and you can't? Or get a thousand chefs together and they say KFC tastes bad, you would believe them just coz they are chefs? I mean your opinion would matter to yourself, but you would have to concede that the majority like KFC. So the majority believe this game is majorly flawed in many ways, and we sure as hell don't need to be coders to know that. 

    Also, OP didn't once have a suggestion towards any technical aspect of how they should go about coding the game. So you can't fault him on that and say he was giving them suggestions of technical aspects on how to do their job. He was just speaking in more generalized laments terms and offering his own criticism, which is valid because the game is marketed to the general public in a way that doesn't require any coding expertise in order to play the game. 
    You might’ve misinterpreted what I was saying so I’ll make it plain with no more metaphors: let the devs do their job, they may take into account all these “suggestions” but might not implement them. If they don’t, there’s no need to throw a hissy fit. If you don’t like their game, don’t play it. We live in a capitalist society so the games that cater to people will survive and those that don’t, won’t. People complain and say they are ignored, but maybe it’s for the better. I don’t complain about what the devs are doing because it’s their game and if I don’t like it I will simply pop in another disc. Bottom line: stop whining. 
  • Disboy said:
    Disboy said:
    Disboy said:
    ID_8615 said:
    For the TL:DR crowd, buh-bye.

    I'm going to begin with a statistic that most may have never heard, seen, known. 
    • Less than 1.5% (1.43% as of today) of XBox players of BF2017 reach Player Rank 50.
    What does that mean?
    That means that very few BattlefrontII players (and I suspect this is across all platforms - PS4, PC, XBox) ever play long enough to become fully proficient in the base-4 classes.  Indeed, some may say, "all I care about is playing Assault and Enforcer .. " -- and that's fine.  Even if that is you, what I am about to describe still pertains to you.

    For the past 18-20 months of updates---from Grievous on---we've seen a huge Development push towards ever-more-powerful Heroes and Enforcers.  EA/DICE have been on the POWER-binge.  Each major release seemed to ONE-UP the previous release.  Grievous trumped everyone before.  Kenobi trumped Grievous.  Dooku trumped Kenobi.  And then Anakin trumped them all, and for a good time thereafter.  In-between those, we had the Infiltrators, and of late - the Droidekas and TX-130s.  Who cares?

    I do.  And so should a majority of the player base.  A vast majority of the player base.  It should be extremely disconcerting that a mere 1.5% of players ever reach Player Rank 50.  That number ought to be much closer to 25+% given all the Double and Triple XP events DICE have thrown at the players over the same time frame.

    Frankly, EA/DICE have decimated their own Star Wars game franchise with this pursuit of POWER.  Making it ever more easier to off the little ones in a given episode - particularly in the GA and CS formats.  It should be of little wonder WHY EA/DICE even felt it necessary to augment the player base of CS with AI bots..!!   It only underscores and vastly understates the point that the general player base of BattlefrontII is NOT being catered to with these POWER releases of EA/DICE. 

    When you pursue a course targeting the uber elite of your player base, at the cost of your 98%, you are essentially trashing your own future.

    GA/CS today is boring.  Boring because the play for the objectives of the game are inconsequential to nearly every player in the game.  Dismal Game Design is to blame.  Very, very few GA / CS games are now balanced---and, I won't even go in to the claim of EA/DICE's match-making algorithm being the culprit.  More than that, the whole game layout is slated heavily in favor of those who can attain the POWER players - Aerials, Infiltrators, TX-130s/Droidekas, and Heroes - first.  And who are those players?  Typically, they are the ones who best understand how to utilize those advantages given them.  Sure, you will have a few newbie hero players, but they tend to die within 30 seconds of grabbing a hero until they have some skill.  By-in-large, the same players time and time-again are the ones quickly gaining the requisite BP necessary to grab an Elite (Enforcer, Aerial, Infiltrator, Hero) and thereafter DOMINATE the landscape with the POWER afforded to them by the EA/DICE Development team.

    In the end, you have a dismally boring game, lopsided and dominated by an elite few.  The casual gamer who came to BattlefrontII, looking for a relatively fair fight, where skill, teamwork, objective-based play matter, will be sorely sent packing back to the Respawn Screen repeatedly by the POWER-users---the Hero-worshippers of the player base.  And, a good portion of those casual gamers are sent packing to go play APEX or Fortnite or Call of Duty, et. al., because they simply cannot get a fair fight being a base-4 trooper in just about ANY game format BF II offers -- even in BLAST, as the Aerials just dominate that landscape over base-4 troopers.

    What's more, ... getting back to the original statistic of 1.5% attaining Player Rank 50 ..., most gamers are not at a point in all classes where they have unlocked ALL weapons with ALL 3 options unlocked per weapon, let alone have purple status in all of the Star Cards for all classes.  Perhaps they may have in 1 or 2, but 3 or 4 is rare.  And to have adequate experience in all classes to be competent with all weaponry and skill sets is even rarer.  To unlock the most formidable weapons takes hours and hours and hours of play - the CR-2 w/ reduced recoil, the DC15 w/ Exploding shots, the SE-44C with rapid fire(!), the NT-242 w/ extra cooling - all of those typically require class-rank 50+ to even begin to have most of the advanced weaponry and Star Cards (level 20 for the base, basic Stinger Pistol for Specialists, e.g.) capable of standing up to the Elites of the game.

    Don't get up on my account..!  -- how snarky.  How heroic, right?

    But, this is just p__-poor Game Design and Game Development Roadmap on EA/DICE's part.  Why they continue to insist on having Elites mixed in with the Base-4 classes is beyond me.  Beyond comprehension.

    I fully understand EA/DICE wanting to create a "Star-Wars-y" feel to the game.  But, if that's true, why are they only following that part-of-the-time?  E.g., they want to have heroes inter-mixed with the Base-4 troopers, but they permit cross-era heroes?!?!  Ever wonder why they don't permit cross-era Troopers?   Why can't I play my ROG-R skin'd Officer on CRAIT for the First Order?!?!  Correct---it'd be ugly.  Just like the cross-era heroes.  They stick out like sore thumbs---like the Han Solo Hoth skin on Tatooine.

    Don't get up my account..!

    How about the fact that on Geonosis, your given the story-line that your Clone Trooper squad NEEDS to call for help to get extra AT-TEs sent in from afar.  You cannot use LAATs ... ever ... yet, those and troopers are battling all AROUND you, on either-side of the GA Geonisis battlefront.  You see LAATs whizzing all around you, yet you can't even call up one?  Where'd all the TX-130's suddenly come from?  Were those just parked on the other side of the mountain such they could only be used Stage 2 on?  Ditto for the Droids---were their tanks just parked too far away they never thought it necessary to bring those with them to attack the Clones in Stage 1?

    Don't get up on my account...!

    If EA/DICE really want this franchise to succeed, several things need to happen... quickly.
    1. Heroes need something heroic to do in the game.  EA/DICE need to combine formats -- GA & Extraction, say.  Open up with Kashyyyk GA.  Play begins at Stage 1 as normal.  As players build up BP, they can opt to play in the Elite Track where an Extraction episode battle rages on.  Clone Trooper heroes are attempting to extract a bonus shipment of Ion Blasters for their team to use.  IF they get it extracted successfully, the Clone team gains possession of a 4th and lucrative load of Ion Blasters to use against the Droid MTTs.

      Conversely, on Stage 2 (Juggernauts), the Droid team would be attempting to extract an extra set of Detonators (essentially extra team tickets to set detonators on each Juggernaut---e.g., an extra 50 or 100 tickets if successful).

      Elite Tracks would be open to any class (base-4 included, but the players would be given a very stern, verbal warning that they were entering a perilous task).  Aerials, Infiltrators, Droidekas, Heroes would only be allowed in to these Elite Track areas.  They would NOT be permitted in to the base-4 trooper play areas.  They are heroes, remember?  Ever see George Lucas spend more than a few moments filming Jedi vs. dolts in his films?  No, he spent a good chunk of film on DV v. Kenobi and Palpatine v. Yoda, e.g., but not on Jedi entering the Jedi Temple.  There's a reason for that.

      Look at the success of BF2015.  Players still play that game to this day!  Every day, I can get a Walker Assault game .. and enjoy it (aside from the speeders killing team-mate abusers on Endor...).  Players, casual players can enjoy that game mode from Day 1.  You don't need, necessarily, to have the uber-elite Star Cards; even the rudimentary stuff is sufficient for decent game play.  Nor do POWER ELITES absurdly influence game play and outcomes as they do in BF2.

    2. Stop pretending that a majority of your player base is "Heroes".  Most of us in the real world know this.  Any time you focus development efforts on one or two new unique characters or units, the remaining 95% of the player base is getting the shaft of the development teams' time and effort.

      a.  Typically, it involves new threats and sudden death to the generic base-4 class player.
      b.  Typically, it also involves reducing damage to ELITES from the base-4 class player.  (Or nerfing Rolling as a defense).
      c.  Typically, it means more time staring at the Respawn Screen for the base-4 class player.
      d.  Typically, it means no attention paid to base-4 class player bug fixing.  (E.g., Thermal Detonator explosions are in desperate need of fixing.  Many explosions go straight through solid metal / rock walls, down stairs, across 100s of meters of screen space.  And, this has been an issue for months... months.)

      ELITE development, POWER development -- all those pretty lights and sounds -- only bump up the power-play of the < 5% of your player base.  The remaining 95% is getting the proverbial shaft.  And there is no excuse for it.  Because I enjoy playing as a base-4 trooper, I have been shunned Development Team time and effort for the past 18 months.  Is my money no good?  While only 10-15% of the player base play as an ELITE part of the time in a given CS/GA episode, at least 100% of us start off as a Base-4 player in the beginning.  85-90% remain as much through out the game.  Why are EA/DICE not spending commensurate amounts on the development of play for the 85-90% of the player base???

      Don't get up on my account..!

    3. ELITE-free Trooper play must be a thing.  A majority of your player base is NOT playing elites.  As much as they make plenty of noise on Reddit, here in the EA forums, Twitter, Twitch, etc., they are NOT the majority.  They are simply the VOCAL majority.  Huuuuuge difference.  Huuuuuge.

    If EA/DICE is serious about this franchise's success through the years, including that of Fallen Order, I hope-to-heck they take note of this post.  I'm sure we'll get a good chunk of Hero-worshipper responses being excessively VOCAL about how casual players just need to "git gud" and not die as much.  But, they are not concerned about the game's future as I and other Trooper players are.  The franchise is not in a good position if only 1.5% of players are reaching Player Rank 50+.

    Don't get up on my account..!
    You made this post saying “buh-bye” only to make another thread 2 days later. You also ranted about the devs not doing a good job when you probably don’t know how to code yourself... Is everything okay OP?
    What does noticing problems within a game have to do with him being able to code? Are you a chef and can taste when food is bad? Because if your not a chef, then by your reasoning what right do you have to say that food is bad. 
    He’s trying to tell them what to do in order to be “successful” yet I doubt he’s ever even programmed a simple if/else statement. Coding is hard, that’s why few people do it. Anyone can be a “dreamer” or a “visionary” but the reality of it is only a couple of those visions can be achieved in a given time.

    Regarding your chef analogy; everyone has a pallet, but only expert Chef’s have developed ones that can decide whether one item truly is good or bad. So yes, only chefs have the right to have a say whether food is objectively good or bad, everyone else is opinionated which is really based off one perspective, rather than many. In other words the OP thinks this game should revolve around his “ideas” rather than the polls of the community, and I have a sense you are the same...
    So with your analysis of my chef analogy, you said that only an elite few within the industry should determine if someone is good or bad. Yet then you go on to say that basically they should base the game off of the "polls of the community". Make up your mind, is it these experts who things should be catered to, or the "community" as you put it? Because I'm saying the way people react to this game is similar in the sense to how people react to good or bad food. Everyone on earth can tell if something is good food, we don't need experts telling us. It mostly comes down to whether or not the majority of a population enjoys a taste or not. Just like how everyone in the gaming community can tell if something is a good game or not, and how it comes down to what the majority believe is good. So no, you definately don't need to work in the gaming industry to know whether or not the game itself is fun to play, and an expert is never the person that makes the decision on if it's good or not. The popularity of it is. Round up a thousand gaming experts on and if all of them told you that N64 james bond Goldeneye was bad, you would believe them because they can code and you can't? Or get a thousand chefs together and they say KFC tastes bad, you would believe them just coz they are chefs? I mean your opinion would matter to yourself, but you would have to concede that the majority like KFC. So the majority believe this game is majorly flawed in many ways, and we sure as hell don't need to be coders to know that. 

    Also, OP didn't once have a suggestion towards any technical aspect of how they should go about coding the game. So you can't fault him on that and say he was giving them suggestions of technical aspects on how to do their job. He was just speaking in more generalized laments terms and offering his own criticism, which is valid because the game is marketed to the general public in a way that doesn't require any coding expertise in order to play the game. 
    You might’ve misinterpreted what I was saying so I’ll make it plain with no more metaphors: let the devs do their job, they may take into account all these “suggestions” but might not implement them. If they don’t, there’s no need to throw a hissy fit. If you don’t like their game, don’t play it. We live in a capitalist society so the games that cater to people will survive and those that don’t, won’t. People complain and say they are ignored, but maybe it’s for the better. I don’t complain about what the devs are doing because it’s their game and if I don’t like it I will simply pop in another disc. Bottom line: stop whining. 
    Ok, well I just don't agree with your way of going about things then. If we already bought the game and then gave them no feedback, it leaves them open to making the same mistakes if they are to get the license for the next battlefront game that comes out. I mean your on the forums, what's the point of these forums if not mainly being used for feedback? And then where do you draw the line about what is and isn't appropriate to talk about and what you should just "stop whining" about. I never once misinterpreted what you were saying though, I just completely disagree with your arguments against the OP. You were arguing his right to give feedback because you said he wasn't able to code (not that you would even know that in the first place). Your last post doesn't really relate to what your first post in here did, which is what I was originally using the metaphors for and responding to. 
  • SnakeMajin
    363 posts Member
    edited August 5
    I'm level 50. Base classes, weapons and reinforcements are maxed out. It took me around what ? 150 hours for player level 50 and 200 for maxing classes ? Truth is I rarely play more than 100. And today with 230 hours I've barely touched vehicles and ships while heroes are all around 15-20. I don't even have half the skins.

    I'd be concerned if the Max Level took 24-48 hours like CoD4 Moden Warfare. But not 200 hours. It's like being concerned because few peoole playing Zelda BoTW have found the 900 Korogus.

    It's not really a problem of play time involvement. The player's involvement is here. The problem is this involvement is not rewarded in game. BF2 is miserly, cheap and all at giving credits, XP and Weapon parts.
  • Empire_TW said:
    The addition of new heroes and reinforcements is mostly because CW fans think the game is literally unplayable if the content isn't their favorite era. 

    There really isn't lust for power, Obi-Wan was an attempt to stop DS spam in HvV and Anakin was an even lazier attempt to try and balance out HvV. 

    It is true that it is a very vocal amount of people requesting heroes though.
    That's very narrow-minded. Maybe some of us would just prefer new content from an era we haven't had for a long time, and not the same content we got around two years ago. 

    Great post OP.
  • Though the Star Card formats have been since altered, what this guy wrote nearly 2 years ago echoes a good portion of what I wrote above. I was made aware of it from another forum thread discussing many of these issues. ( https://www.forbes.com/sites/games/2017/11/21/star-wars-battlefront-2-review-the-empire-screws-up/amp/ )

    In my post above, I am giving solutions to the problems. Easy fix solutions. Things that will begin to make things right, as was said in The Force Awakens.

    The long-term fix is for EA/DICE to remake GA & CS, as I mentioned, in to something interesting to play - as Walker Assaults are/were in BF2015. And BF2017 could be MORE than BF2015 with a few concerted tweaks. But, currently, they either lack the imagination or the where-with-all to do so.

    In CS: the ground battles are so generic, so unorganized, that if your team wins or loses, its practically pure luck. Sure, from time-to-time you might have a PSN or XBox group dialed in to one another - in which case team play will generally crush the opposing team. But, for the remainder of the players, it is dumb luck whether they win or lose. Ditto for the dreadnaught / battle cruiser phase. Though there are objectives to pursue, team play is practically absent. In fact, one doesn't even know when or where or whether the trooper next to you is a real trooper or an AI bot. DICE never gave players any notion of group-think when they published CS as a game format. Hence, it gets boring, ... fast.

    By contrast, look at Extraction!! It's fast-paced (no waiting for respawn timers), the objectives are well-defined (re-iterated frequently by the team announcers) and team-play, individual skill, and objective accomplishment is all rewarded with "wins".

    Nearly all of BF2017's game modes are plagued with an over-reliance on POWER. POWER being the answer to all problems, all complaints, when POWER is all-but adding fuel to the flames of disaster. Rather than fix the ails of BALANCE and INTEREST in the game, we are given excuses as to why POWER must be the answer.
    • I don't need a jet pack trooper with dual pistols and extra health to reign over the rest of the field to make the game interesting.
    • I don't need a Damage Reduction card so I lord over the scrawny troopers helpless before my Hero.
    • I don't need a new over-powered tank.

    None of that fixes the problems of how boring GA has become over the past 18 months. Of the starting 20 players on each side, DICE have made it clear that only a specific 3~5 of each team .. matter. The rest of the team .. the MAJORITY of the team .. have no place. Not on the battlefront. Not on the final End of Regulation screen. Nowhere do they matter, except to pump UP those 3~5 on each side to the top of the Scoreboard.

    For the past 18-20 months, all of the development work and effort has gone to the distinct few that play the ELITES - the POWER classes. The remainder of the player base has gotten nothing. Nothing. I am not asking for huge power buffs to base-4 weaponry. I am not asking for new weaponry. Increased choice would be great. But, that does not resolve the basic problem of Game Design. The issue of Game Design must be addressed - otherwise, this game will continue to struggle upwards in player-base numbers ( and we won't have another Battlefront game for a LONG, LONG time ).
  • You’ve really covered it all, nothing to add here.

    But I doubt they would make any changes to the games dynamics this late in its life.
    The devs and many(?) players seem to be perfectly fine with the balance and the well described race for power- which I’m having difficulties with in understanding why- , but probably it’s just that those looking for an even playfield have left this game and this forum by now.

    The game disables the lowest tier players ability to evade the highest tier player so he can have an easier kill. How lame can it get?

    Star Wars Herofront.

    Not a single all infantry mode without a race for power.
    Apparently an incomprehensible concept for this game. I mean, who wouldn’t want a stronger unit to enforce his awesomeness upon all those noobs, right?

    Sad to say but,
    these are not the droids we’re looking for...
  • For me it was George, selling it to Disney.
    Isn’t that there are one of their new Star Wars parks completely void of tourists
  • Laser921
    1977 posts Member
    I miss Pandemic
    Emotion yet Peace, Ignorance yet Knowledge, Passion yet Serenity, Chaos yet Harmony, Death yet the Force
  • Laser921 wrote: »
    I miss Pandemic

    Me too. That's when they had battlefront right.
  • as of august 10, 1,44% of players on xbox reach level 50. approx 7,75% reach level 25 !!!! omg thanks for the post. i didn't notice that ! less than 50% won a HvV battle etc ... wow !!! this morning i tried to player GA . i got only empty servers on jakku , hoth and naboo. where are the players ?? dont tell me they are playing Ewok or CS ! after 18 months, devs are still teakings heroes cards ... no new GA maps since geonosis ... in the past few months, we got emote wheel, victory poses, emotes and a lot of clone skins. yes we got CS but honnestly , its almost the same maps we already play on GA. fellucia should be CS only... omg please don't do this !
  • Speedjack wrote: »
    as of august 10, 1,44% of players on xbox reach level 50. approx 7,75% reach level 25 !!!! omg thanks for the post. i didn't notice that ! less than 50% won a HvV battle etc ... wow !!! this morning i tried to player GA . i got only empty servers on jakku , hoth and naboo. where are the players ?? dont tell me they are playing Ewok or CS ! after 18 months, devs are still teakings heroes cards ... no new GA maps since geonosis ... in the past few months, we got emote wheel, victory poses, emotes and a lot of clone skins. yes we got CS but honnestly , its almost the same maps we already play on GA. fellucia should be CS only... omg please don't do this !

    I can tell you that adding a 4th default passive Health on Kill card to all Heroes is not going to bring in a flood of new players to the Battlefront2 playerbase. Again, it's telling the newbies and majority who do not play the Elites in any scenario --- "we don't serve your kind here".
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