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No Match for a Good Blaster

Yoda and obi-wan should of gone after palpatine together.

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Why split up and send obi-wan to Anakin?? Anakin wasn't the real threat even to the point of the start of episode 4. Only once the emperor had dissolved the senate could Anakin of taken control from palpatine without the possibility of an uprising from within the core star systems.

All Anakin's talk on mustafar to Padme was just him talking trash basically. He could never follow through with an overthrow of palpatine at that point. Palps still had the support of the majority of the senate. He still had his position of which he technically acquired legally for all they knew. Any threat on his life by anyone, even Anakin, would of been seen as an attack on the Empire itself and there would of been mass exodus of star systems from the Empire had Anakin ever made a move. Just killing palps would never of gained him supreme authority over the military. It was still under the command of the empirical political system at that point and never once did it follow along the lines of a royal line, at least not up until ep 4.

So what's the point of the attack on Anakin? He's literally worlds away and then Yoda and obi-wan basically half their chances of destroying the emperor in episode 3.

Replies

  • Cause Anakin would be getting stronger everyday he uses the dark side.

    I think first off in the long run a dark side anakin is the bigger thread to the Galaxy and secondly Obi Wan had some glimmering hope he could bring Anakin back and thats why he went in the end.

    And i dont think obi wan wouldve have been a great Help against Palps since Palps was versed in all seven lightsaber forms and wouldve taken obi out with similar if not more easy then dooku since Makushii is the direct counter to Sor su.

    He wouldve been a liability ince yoda wouldve had to protect obi wan while fighting.
    I mean look what palps did with saese tinn kit fisto and ahm who was the last guy again?
    They didnt help windu at all
  • You know this a game forum right?😂
  • ROMG4
    2893 posts Member
    edited September 9
    Because this would have happened to Obi

    BlandEveryKinkajou-small.gif

    None can withstand D A P O K E!

    In all seriousness considering how strong Palpatine was Obi-Wan wouldn't have stood much of a chance. He had already been defeated by Count Dooku twice in the films and had difficulty fighting Darth Maul. Both of these villains were far weaker than palpatine, and palpatine already smacked down Maul and Savage at the same time if you count CW

    Yoda even mentions this in the film before they set off. Had Obi-Wan gone he probably would have been defeated and Anakin unchallenged
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  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    Because this would have happened to Obi

    BlandEveryKinkajou-small.gif

    None can withstand D A P O K E!

    In all seriousness considering how strong Palpatine was Obi-Wan wouldn't have stood much of a chance. He had already been defeated by Count Dooku twice in the films and had difficulty fighting Darth Maul. Both of these villains were far weaker than palpatine, and palpatine already smacked down Maul and Savage at the same time if you count CW

    Yoda even mentions this in the film before they set off. Had Obi-Wan gone he probably would have been defeated and Anakin unchallenged

    Well not exactly .. Kenobi have a formidable defense, better then kit fisto, sease tinn and agen kolar.
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    Because this would have happened to Obi

    BlandEveryKinkajou-small.gif

    None can withstand D A P O K E!

    In all seriousness considering how strong Palpatine was Obi-Wan wouldn't have stood much of a chance. He had already been defeated by Count Dooku twice in the films and had difficulty fighting Darth Maul. Both of these villains were far weaker than palpatine, and palpatine already smacked down Maul and Savage at the same time if you count CW

    Yoda even mentions this in the film before they set off. Had Obi-Wan gone he probably would have been defeated and Anakin unchallenged

    But he did beat Anakin. I mean surely he could of given them the edge. Palps lost to mace windu and it was pretty even between him and yoda. My point is though they Yoda and obi-wan couldn't of known the power of palpatine. So they should of doubledtheirefforts (haha) and gone after him together. He was the biggest threat and should of been taken way more seriously and with their full attention.
  • ROMG4
    2893 posts Member
    DarthCapa2 wrote: »
    ROMG4 wrote: »
    Because this would have happened to Obi

    BlandEveryKinkajou-small.gif

    None can withstand D A P O K E!

    In all seriousness considering how strong Palpatine was Obi-Wan wouldn't have stood much of a chance. He had already been defeated by Count Dooku twice in the films and had difficulty fighting Darth Maul. Both of these villains were far weaker than palpatine, and palpatine already smacked down Maul and Savage at the same time if you count CW

    Yoda even mentions this in the film before they set off. Had Obi-Wan gone he probably would have been defeated and Anakin unchallenged

    Well not exactly .. Kenobi have a formidable defense, better then kit fisto, sease tinn and agen kolar.

    source.gif



    Tell that to Dooku
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    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
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  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    Because this would have happened to Obi

    BlandEveryKinkajou-small.gif

    None can withstand D A P O K E!

    In all seriousness considering how strong Palpatine was Obi-Wan wouldn't have stood much of a chance. He had already been defeated by Count Dooku twice in the films and had difficulty fighting Darth Maul. Both of these villains were far weaker than palpatine, and palpatine already smacked down Maul and Savage at the same time if you count CW

    Yoda even mentions this in the film before they set off. Had Obi-Wan gone he probably would have been defeated and Anakin unchallenged

    Also perhaps if he had just of been there, then it could of happened the same way maul did with qui-gon. Wearing down palps with Yoda and then obi-wan finish him off. I mean who knows. But that's really my main point. They didn't know what would happen or exactly how strong palpatine was. So they should both of gone after him. Especially considering he had MASSIVE political power and Anakin virtually had none.
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    Because this would have happened to Obi

    BlandEveryKinkajou-small.gif

    None can withstand D A P O K E!

    In all seriousness considering how strong Palpatine was Obi-Wan wouldn't have stood much of a chance. He had already been defeated by Count Dooku twice in the films and had difficulty fighting Darth Maul. Both of these villains were far weaker than palpatine, and palpatine already smacked down Maul and Savage at the same time if you count CW

    Yoda even mentions this in the film before they set off. Had Obi-Wan gone he probably would have been defeated and Anakin unchallenged

    But he did beat Anakin. I mean surely he could of given them the edge. Palps lost to mace windu and it was pretty even between him and yoda. My point is though they Yoda and obi-wan couldn't of known the power of palpatine. So they should of doubledtheirefforts (haha) and gone after him together. He was the biggest threat and should of been taken way more seriously and with their full attention.

    Palps truly losing to Mace Windu is debatable. Some sources say Mace won, partly by being clever and forcing Palpatine onto the windowsill where he had to focus on his balance rather than using force speed (and lessening his advantage). In contrast, other sources including Darth Vader a long time after the duel ponder that Palpatine wasn't trying his hardest, and wanting to look like he lost and was vulnerable so Anakin would help him. This would play into Palpatine's plans of him being the innocent senator victim of an attempted Jedi assassination with Anakin as his trusty and noble enforcer.

    Even if Mace 100% won, that doesn't guarantee that Obi-Wan would help beat Palpatine. Yoda was a master of every lightsaber form, including Obi-Wan's Soresu, and was stronger and more knowledgeable in the force than Obi-Wan, yet he ultimately tired and lost against Sidious' aggressive barrage of force abilities. Mace also had the unique advantage of the Vaapad form, allowing him to channel tenets of the dark side and turn that energy against Palpatine, beefing himself up. Obi-Wan was impressive in both saber combat and force abilities and the battle might've waged on longer or been more even, but Palpatine likely would've eventually roasted him with his own force superiority. Plus Vader would've gone unchallenged.

    Obi-Wan vs Anakin was a wiser choice. Obi-Wan was a perfect counter to the newly fallen Anakin, as his own defensive style perfectly played and ticked off Anakin until he got sloppy and was dismembered. The only downside to Obi-Wan was that he was attached to Anakin and let him live. Sidious theorized that if Yoda had fought Anakin, Yoda would've beaten him like Obi-Wan and even killed Anakin, unlike Obi-Wan.
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    DarthCapa2 wrote: »
    ROMG4 wrote: »
    Because this would have happened to Obi

    BlandEveryKinkajou-small.gif

    None can withstand D A P O K E!

    In all seriousness considering how strong Palpatine was Obi-Wan wouldn't have stood much of a chance. He had already been defeated by Count Dooku twice in the films and had difficulty fighting Darth Maul. Both of these villains were far weaker than palpatine, and palpatine already smacked down Maul and Savage at the same time if you count CW

    Yoda even mentions this in the film before they set off. Had Obi-Wan gone he probably would have been defeated and Anakin unchallenged

    Well not exactly .. Kenobi have a formidable defense, better then kit fisto, sease tinn and agen kolar.

    source.gif



    Tell that to Dooku

    Dooku and ep 3 Kenobi are comparable fighters.
  • JediJulius wrote: »
    ROMG4 wrote: »
    Because this would have happened to Obi

    BlandEveryKinkajou-small.gif

    None can withstand D A P O K E!

    In all seriousness considering how strong Palpatine was Obi-Wan wouldn't have stood much of a chance. He had already been defeated by Count Dooku twice in the films and had difficulty fighting Darth Maul. Both of these villains were far weaker than palpatine, and palpatine already smacked down Maul and Savage at the same time if you count CW

    Yoda even mentions this in the film before they set off. Had Obi-Wan gone he probably would have been defeated and Anakin unchallenged

    But he did beat Anakin. I mean surely he could of given them the edge. Palps lost to mace windu and it was pretty even between him and yoda. My point is though they Yoda and obi-wan couldn't of known the power of palpatine. So they should of doubledtheirefforts (haha) and gone after him together. He was the biggest threat and should of been taken way more seriously and with their full attention.

    Palps truly losing to Mace Windu is debatable. Some sources say Mace won, partly by being clever and forcing Palpatine onto the windowsill where he had to focus on his balance rather than using force speed (and lessening his advantage). In contrast, other sources including Darth Vader a long time after the duel ponder that Palpatine wasn't trying his hardest, and wanting to look like he lost and was vulnerable so Anakin would help him. This would play into Palpatine's plans of him being the innocent senator victim of an attempted Jedi assassination with Anakin as his trusty and noble enforcer.

    Even if Mace 100% won, that doesn't guarantee that Obi-Wan would help beat Palpatine. Yoda was a master of every lightsaber form, including Obi-Wan's Soresu, and was stronger and more knowledgeable in the force than Obi-Wan, yet he ultimately tired and lost against Sidious' aggressive barrage of force abilities. Mace also had the unique advantage of the Vaapad form, allowing him to channel tenets of the dark side and turn that energy against Palpatine, beefing himself up. Obi-Wan was impressive in both saber combat and force abilities and the battle might've waged on longer or been more even, but Palpatine likely would've eventually roasted him with his own force superiority. Plus Vader would've gone unchallenged.

    Obi-Wan vs Anakin was a wiser choice. Obi-Wan was a perfect counter to the newly fallen Anakin, as his own defensive style perfectly played and ticked off Anakin until he got sloppy and was dismembered. The only downside to Obi-Wan was that he was attached to Anakin and let him live. Sidious theorized that if Yoda had fought Anakin, Yoda would've beaten him like Obi-Wan and even killed Anakin, unlike Obi-Wan.

    Well I already said Vader didn't need to be challenged at all at that point. He just wasn't a threat if he was left alone. Plus without palpatines guidance, he probably never would of been a threat if Yoda had killed palps. Anakin was so distraught on mustafar. He was crying after what he had already done. There's no way he would of persued the dark side if palpatine had died. He would have no reason too. He couldn't acquire the Empire for himself, he had no place left in the Jedi order. I mean what would he possibly of done for the rest of his life? Once palps died. The Empire would of gone straight back to the republic it once was and now that republic would be in control of the military the Empire had. So who in the entire galaxy could pose any kind of outside threat at that point? No one. So let's just forget Anakin at this point.

    I think that mace won fair and square. Dunno what that balance on the edge of the window thing is about, but they both ended up having the same footing on the window edge. If palps couldn't do as well for whatever reason, then it's his fault for getting into that situation, or you could say it was mace that put him in the situation. Either way it shows that palpatine lost to someone with probably equal lightsaber strength to yoda. So if there were both Yoda and obi-wan there, then it gives them more of a chance to win. Just like with maul. If there weren't 2 of them there, then maul would of killed qui-gon and won.

    I said it to another guy before, but they didn't know what would happen. So they should of focused their efforts onto palpatine regardless of who they thought was a better match up of fighting. Palpatine was the only real threat and once they found out Anakin wasn't on the planet, they should of combined their efforts.
  • Ppong_Man12
    2612 posts Member
    edited September 9
    A few points
    Palpatine could see ito the future,
    Anakin hears him in the temple,(ROTS), saying if you let them take me you can’t save her.
    Anakin tells Mace he’s going to need his help to take Palpatine.
    Palpatine using force lightning on Mace could have stoped at any time, it was his lightning.
    Palpatine knew Anakin was in trouble worlds away so he should have knew what was coming when the Jedi came to take him.

    As far as light saber forms/combat/skill goes Gillard claims he invented them, ( if you’re going by the films), and anything else is basically fan theory comic writers. I haven’t seen GL go against or dispute what he said yet.



    According to this Yoda is clearly better than Mace according to Nick’s scale, he’s one of the few level 9s when it was supposed to stop at 7. Anakin’s weakness was between his ears, he was literally a head case at that point.

    I say that to say this, I think maybe he thought OW would have been a liability to Yoda if he would have joined him. Think of the Dumbledore Voldemort fight with Harry having to be protected. Or maybe he thought Anakin need to be stoped before reaching an unstoppable potential. Lots of discrepancies in Starwars lol.

    Another good read on the lightsaber forums of combat and how it was interpreted or misinterpreted by various writers.


    https://www.quora.com/What-lightsaber-forms-Form-I-Form-V-etc-are-seen-in-Star-Wars-Episode-VII-The-Force-Awakens
    Post edited by Ppong_Man12 on
  • A few points
    Palpatine could see ito the future,
    Anakin hears him in the temple,(ROTS), saying if you let them take me you can’t save her.
    Anakin tells Mace he’s going to need his help to take Palpatine.
    Palpatine using force lightning on Mace could have stoped at any time, it was his lightning.
    Palpatine knew Anakin was in trouble worlds away so he should have knew what was coming when the Jedi came to take him.

    As far as light saber forms/combat/skill goes Gillard claims he invented them, ( if you’re going by the films), and anything else is basically fan theory comic writers. I haven’t seen GL go against or dispute what he said yet.



    According to this Yoda is clearly better than Mace according to Nick’s scale, he’s one of the few level 9s when it was supposed to stop at 7. Anakin’s weakness was between his ears, he was literally a head case at that point.

    I say that to say this, I think maybe he thought OW would have been a liability to Yoda if he would have joined him. Think of the Dumbledore Voldemort fight with Harry having to be protected. Or maybe he thought Anakin need to be stoped before reaching an unstoppable potential. Lots of discrepancies in Starwars lol.

    I still don't understand what side you've landed on? Haha like do you believe they both should of gone after palps or no?

    Jedi always seemed to be very much people who liked to have their fellow Jedi fight with them against sith lords. Yoda is the ultimate Jedi, so you'd imagine he would have the best team player skills in the Jedi order.

    I don't think obi-wan and palps can be compared to be as weak as Harry was to Voldemort haha that's a bit of a stretch. However...Harry did kill Voldemort :P
  • Yeah I actually think OW is always underrated in saber combat, I’m not sure he could have helped Yoda other than being a sacrifice, he could have opened a window for Yoda to get a killshot on Palpatine. IMO that kinda makes more sense than the OW Anakin highground fight imo. I liked the way NG had the fight scene ending set up personally but GL didn’t apparently. Nicks made a lot more sense imo.

    Also that fight kinda made Yoda look a little cowardice by just leaving and going into exile. I think QuiGon and/or Mace would have handled it differently. I guess George needed to happen that way to be able to have a Vader and the OT trilogy lol, a lot doesn’t make sense though. I think GL rushed a lot of things and could have easily made 5 films.
  • Because plot points
    PSN: DarthLando-
  • DarthLando wrote: »
    Because plot points

    Yep, that’s the bottom line, it had it happen.
  • Yeah I actually think OW is always underrated in saber combat, I’m not sure he could have helped Yoda other than being a sacrifice, he could have opened a window for Yoda to get a killshot on Palpatine. IMO that kinda makes more sense than the OW Anakin highground fight imo. I liked the way NG had the fight scene ending set up personally but GL didn’t apparently. Nicks made a lot more sense imo.

    Also that fight kinda made Yoda look a little cowardice by just leaving and going into exile. I think QuiGon and/or Mace would have handled it differently. I guess George needed to happen that way to be able to have a Vader and the OT trilogy lol, a lot doesn’t make sense though. I think GL rushed a lot of things and could have easily made 5 films.

    Yeah Anakin's fall to the dark side was too quick imo also. After episode 2, there could easily of been a few more movies. At least one about the whole war and maybe showing Anakin committing some war crimes. Then the next movies more about his fall to the dark side and fear of losing Padme. But ooooo, got to keep it a trilogy. Mustn't upset Hollywood and how it enjoys the word "trilogy" so much.
  • Yeah I actually think OW is always underrated in saber combat, I’m not sure he could have helped Yoda other than being a sacrifice, he could have opened a window for Yoda to get a killshot on Palpatine. IMO that kinda makes more sense than the OW Anakin highground fight imo. I liked the way NG had the fight scene ending set up personally but GL didn’t apparently. Nicks made a lot more sense imo.

    Also that fight kinda made Yoda look a little cowardice by just leaving and going into exile. I think QuiGon and/or Mace would have handled it differently. I guess George needed to happen that way to be able to have a Vader and the OT trilogy lol, a lot doesn’t make sense though. I think GL rushed a lot of things and could have easily made 5 films.

    Yeah Anakin's fall to the dark side was too quick imo also. After episode 2, there could easily of been a few more movies. At least one about the whole war and maybe showing Anakin committing some war crimes. Then the next movies more about his fall to the dark side and fear of losing Padme. But ooooo, got to keep it a trilogy. Mustn't upset Hollywood and how it enjoys the word "trilogy" so much.

    Agree, especially the clone wars and Anakin’s fall to Vader. I remember seeing Anakin turning to Vader thinking, that’s it, he just turns 100% cold turkey on a dime. I also wanted to see the part ObiWan mentioned in a new hope, the part when he said Vader helped the empire hunt down and kill the Jedi. It made it sound like he would be fighting more than younglings.
  • The real reason is it was a prequel. George Lucas painted himself into a corner with things that had to happen regardless if they made sense. I think a lot of the criticism of the prequel trilogy is due to characters often seeming to be just going through the motions just checking off boxes.

    That being said I am still a huge Star Wars fan.
  • The real reason is it was a prequel. George Lucas painted himself into a corner with things that had to happen regardless if they made sense. I think a lot of the criticism of the prequel trilogy is due to characters often seeming to be just going through the motions just checking off boxes.

    That being said I am still a huge Star Wars fan.

    Same here, love the OT, love the PT, and the CW series.
  • Because if they had killed Palpatine and then Anakin together, it would have made the entire OT non-canon. Then a Star Wars Fan mob would've showed up at Skywalker Ranch with pitchforks and torches demanding blood be spilled for the movies they lost.
  • DarthLando wrote: »
    For the record

    In the RotS novel, Kenobi is still on Mustafar when Sidious comes to retrieve Anakin’s body. He feels him in the force, thinks to himself that the true Sith Lord is here, & literally starts running toward his ship so he could fly away

    He wanted no part of that fight

    Dude, I looked up the novel and read that part, you're totally right. Obi-Wan is standing there looking at Anakin but when Palpatine arrives he is like "Aw heck no" and just takes off running.

    "A flash of metal through the sky, and Obi-Wan felt the darkness closing in around them both. He knew that ship: the Chancellor's shuttle. Now, he supposed, the Emperor's shuttle. Yoda had failed. He might have died. He might have left Obi-Wan alone: the last Jedi. Below his feet, Darth Vader burst into flame. "I hate you," he screamed.

    Obi-Wan looked down. It would be a mercy to kill him. He was not feeling merciful. He was feeling calm, and clear, and he knew that to climb down to that black beach might cost him more time than he had. Another Sith Lord approached."
  • Ok so im gonna adress the point of why Obi Wan beat Anakin.

    So first Obi Wan was only able to hold his ground(watch the fight obi wan rarely goes on the offensive and is almost exclusively retreating throughout the fight) because his fighting style was build around that AND (this one is the real one) Obi Wan trained anakin. They knew all of each others tricks. Every maneuver,every feint anything which played more into obi wans hands than into anakins since obi wan was more expirienced and his fighting was entirely defensively oriented.
    Thats why some fighting parts look so oddly choreographed or unnaturally fluent... they knew the others moveset and its hard to break your patterns without making fatal mistakes.
    Of course Anakin wouldve won in the long run cause he was younger and just more powerful and would simply outlast obi wan. I mean look at Obi at the final clash on the floating plattform hes barely keeping up anymore.
    But Anakins downfall ultimately is his own arrogance and hubris. He knows the fight between maul and kenobi he knows what happened and by Obi Wan telling him not to try what he did against Maul he was basically telling him "you cant do what i did" which triggered an already drunk on power, enraged and arrogant anakin.
    Obi Wan jumped away because he had no other option left then to gamble on the tactical high ground and anakin either giving up or do smth stupid.

    It poorly executed cinematically but it makes sense once you know the details. The Sith arrogance and confidence in their own strength often is their downfall(Palpatine is a prime example).

    If you know all this the fight is actually pretty brilliant greatly done, BUT since GL failed proper set up the things i just iterated to youre left as audience to piece it together yourself.

    Im gonna address one or two more points in this thread but in a second post to make discussing easier

    Cheers
  • DarthLando wrote: »
    For the record

    In the RotS novel, Kenobi is still on Mustafar when Sidious comes to retrieve Anakin’s body. He feels him in the force, thinks to himself that the true Sith Lord is here, & literally starts running toward his ship so he could fly away

    He wanted no part of that fight

    He did originally want to go after palps instead of Anakin. So he did want to fight him at one point.
  • Yeah Anakin's fall to the dark side was too quick imo also. After episode 2, there could easily of been a few more movies. At least one about the whole war and maybe showing Anakin committing some war crimes. Then the next movies more about his fall to the dark side and fear of losing Padme. But ooooo, got to keep it a trilogy. Mustn't upset Hollywood and how it enjoys the "trilogy" so much. [/quote]

    Uff i get where youre coming from because i thought similar for many years but after some thinking and many... many rewatches of episode 3 and some youtube videos (am i allowed to link youtube videos?) I realized Anakins turn was actually set up quite good.

    In the first Movie we have a boy full of emotion and fear of losing his mother.
    Episode 2 shows a teenager losing his Mother.
    And Episode 3 shows a man and husband fearing for the life of his wife. That just for general set up.

    Anakin whole life in the jedi temple he was told that "there is no emotion there is peace" this is what kept anakin together after the tusken raider massaker, where he got his first taste of the dark side.

    The Jedi Code was everything that restrained him. In many ways he was a emotionless robot trying to be the Jedi he was supposed to be but the Jedi and especially obi wan failed him.

    Oh god here i go picking on obi wan.

    First off Obi Wan was neither ready nor willing to take Anakin as a Padawan. He did because it was Qui Gons dying wish and he wanted to honor his dying masters last wish.

    Thats the first failure of the Jedi order. Allowing an inexpirienced Jedi Knight to train a way to old emotionally unstable but uniquely talented boy.

    Next up theres smth we need to know about obi wan. Obi wan wasnt talented he was quite the opposite. He had barely enough force sensitivity to be allowed into the order took 6 attempts to get accepted by a jedi master as padawan and had to work harder then any other Padawan in the Temple. He was the untalented but dedicated and hard working C student we all know from school.

    Anakin on the other hand was a prodigy. Mastering everything in record time and with ease. You know like the kid that gets straight As all the time but doesnt do anything for school.

    And now put yourself in Obi Wans position. Youre going to hate it. And as a result Obi Wan was a very strict master that talked down on anakin and put him in his place quite often (as seen in episode 2).
    As a result Anakin had the feeling to be held back (which obi wan probably did since he feared anakin would surpass him to quickly) what made him impatient and unhappy.
    And here steps in Palpatine. Constantly feeding his ego being an understanding and kind father figure obi wan failed to be.
    Thats why anakin trusts the chancellor so willingly in episode 3 cause he gave anakin what he wanted and desperately needed(what any teenager wants and needs):Respect and recognition which obiwan failed to give him out of spite.

    So when Obi Wan says on Mustafar that he failed Anakin he means it. Because he was to hard on him as a teacher but loved him too much as a friend to realize what was happening to Anakin.

    And thus we arrive at Episode 3. Anakin now a well known and decorated Hero of the Republic off to save his substitute father with his former teacher and now best friend.

    During his fight with Dooku getting pushed to use his aggression and anger and finally getting urged to kill Dooku an "unarmed prisoner"with Palps explaining it by him "being to dangerous to be left alive"... ring a bell?
    The same words used by Mace Windu later in a similar situation, but ill come back to that.
    So after getting back he not only learns that Padme is pregnant(which puts him in a dilemma) but also gets haunted by visions of Padme dying like his Mother.

    So what does posterboy anakin do?

    He goes to the wisest being in the Galaxy and asks him what to do like a good jedi does. And what solace does offer Yoda to a husband that is deathly afraid of losing his Wife the same way as his mother? "Learn to let go" Wow 10 out of 10

    Also picking on Yoda now... im gonna get lynched aint i?

    Next up Palpatine separates Anakin from the council and creates even more distrust within Anakin in the Jedi with putting him on the council, making the council uneasy and playing right into palpses hands by putting anakin on chancellor watching duty(which again deeply shakes anakins believes in the Jedi order).
    And just at this point Palpatine waters anakins doubt with his opera speach about power and provides him with a solution to his wife related problem.in the process.

    The only thing Palpatine is now left to do is remove Obi Wan since he is the only Jedi Anakin still trusts unconditionally and Yoda the only Jedi possibly being able to sense whats going on thus isolating him.even more within the order.

    And when the time.comes to arrest Palpatine Mace Windu tells anakin basiclly to go to his room to wait for him to deal with it.
    And you can see in this scene how Anakin is still fighting because the jedi and Padme are everything he has and his training as a jedi is fighting his desire to save Padme which brings us to the scene in Palpatines office.

    Windu threatens to kill the chancellor an unarmed prisoner(at least in anakins eyes) with the excuse of him "being to dangerous to be left alive" and it is at this point where Anakin realises that the sith and the jedi arent that different they might even be the same but Palpatine is offering a method to save Padme so he snaps and goes chop chop on windus arm.

    And well the rest is history. Once he started that path he has to see it through to save Padme... which well doesnt go to well does it?

    Sorry for the long post but this might help some of you understand anakins character more in depth and redeem his on first look "quick turn" to the Dark side.

    May the force be with you

    Always

    Cheers
  • JediJulius
    585 posts Member
    edited September 10
    DarthLando wrote: »
    For the record

    In the RotS novel, Kenobi is still on Mustafar when Sidious comes to retrieve Anakin’s body. He feels him in the force, thinks to himself that the true Sith Lord is here, & literally starts running toward his ship so he could fly away

    He wanted no part of that fight

    He did originally want to go after palps instead of Anakin. So he did want to fight him at one point.

    He wasn’t asking to fight Palpatine because he wanted to fight Palpatine. He just really didn’t want to fight and kill Anakin. Obi-Wan cared about Anakin and knew that he would be heartbroken if he fought him, even if he was Darth Vader.
  • Good post, it could be debated it was the Jedi who was at fault as much as Palpatome, maybe even more. Many of the main Jedi were arrogant @zz-hat *****. Remember, Qui’Gon also had issue with the council, they did exactly as Luke said in TLJ, in the height of their power they never expected Palpatine.

    They were jerks toward Anakin most of the the time, except my man Qui’Gon, (my fav Jedi with Luke and Anakin btw), and then Ashoka, who left for similar reasons. She saw first hand how they treated Anakin and then her, they were quick to judge/blame and condemn her to death in the CW and would have if not for Anakin/Padme’. I think QG could have made a difference if he had survived Maul. Fun thread for sure.
  • bfloo
    15713 posts Member

    Good post, it could be debated it was the Jedi who was at fault as much as Palpatome, maybe even more. Many of the main Jedi were arrogant @zz-hat *****. Remember, Qui’Gon also had issue with the council, they did exactly as Luke said in TLJ, in the height of their power they never expected Palpatine.

    They were jerks toward Anakin most of the the time, except my man Qui’Gon, (my fav Jedi with Luke and Anakin btw), and then Ashoka, who left for similar reasons. She saw first hand how they treated Anakin and then her, they were quick to judge/blame and condemn her to death in the CW and would have if not for Anakin/Padme’. I think QG could have made a difference if he had survived Maul. Fun thread for sure.


    The Jedi were in decline by the PT. The Jedi Council was so inept it is almost comical.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • Ppong_Man12
    2612 posts Member
    edited September 10
    bfloo wrote: »
    Good post, it could be debated it was the Jedi who was at fault as much as Palpatome, maybe even more. Many of the main Jedi were arrogant @zz-hat *****. Remember, Qui’Gon also had issue with the council, they did exactly as Luke said in TLJ, in the height of their power they never expected Palpatine.

    They were jerks toward Anakin most of the the time, except my man Qui’Gon, (my fav Jedi with Luke and Anakin btw), and then Ashoka, who left for similar reasons. She saw first hand how they treated Anakin and then her, they were quick to judge/blame and condemn her to death in the CW and would have if not for Anakin/Padme’. I think QG could have made a difference if he had survived Maul. Fun thread for sure.


    The Jedi were in decline by the PT. The Jedi Council was so inept it is almost comical.

    They were definitely not what they should have been.
  • bfloo
    15713 posts Member
    bfloo wrote: »
    Good post, it could be debated it was the Jedi who was at fault as much as Palpatome, maybe even more. Many of the main Jedi were arrogant @zz-hat *****. Remember, Qui’Gon also had issue with the council, they did exactly as Luke said in TLJ, in the height of their power they never expected Palpatine.

    They were jerks toward Anakin most of the the time, except my man Qui’Gon, (my fav Jedi with Luke and Anakin btw), and then Ashoka, who left for similar reasons. She saw first hand how they treated Anakin and then her, they were quick to judge/blame and condemn her to death in the CW and would have if not for Anakin/Padme’. I think QG could have made a difference if he had survived Maul. Fun thread for sure.


    The Jedi were in decline by the PT. The Jedi Council was so inept it is almost comical.

    They were definitely not what they should have been.

    Actually, they were. If the Jedi were at the height of their power and ready for war, the Sith plan would never have worked.

    They were complacent after 1000 years of peace and crumbling with the rest of the Republic.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    Good post, it could be debated it was the Jedi who was at fault as much as Palpatome, maybe even more. Many of the main Jedi were arrogant @zz-hat *****. Remember, Qui’Gon also had issue with the council, they did exactly as Luke said in TLJ, in the height of their power they never expected Palpatine.

    They were jerks toward Anakin most of the the time, except my man Qui’Gon, (my fav Jedi with Luke and Anakin btw), and then Ashoka, who left for similar reasons. She saw first hand how they treated Anakin and then her, they were quick to judge/blame and condemn her to death in the CW and would have if not for Anakin/Padme’. I think QG could have made a difference if he had survived Maul. Fun thread for sure.


    The Jedi were in decline by the PT. The Jedi Council was so inept it is almost comical.

    They were definitely not what they should have been.

    Actually, they were. If the Jedi were at the height of their power and ready for war, the Sith plan would never have worked.

    They were complacent after 1000 years of peace and crumbling with the rest of the Republic.

    So Palpatine basically used their arrogance or laziness against them, or do you think he knew this, their state of mind I mean, or did he get lucky by being at the right place at the right time.
  • bfloo
    15713 posts Member
    bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    Good post, it could be debated it was the Jedi who was at fault as much as Palpatome, maybe even more. Many of the main Jedi were arrogant @zz-hat *****. Remember, Qui’Gon also had issue with the council, they did exactly as Luke said in TLJ, in the height of their power they never expected Palpatine.

    They were jerks toward Anakin most of the the time, except my man Qui’Gon, (my fav Jedi with Luke and Anakin btw), and then Ashoka, who left for similar reasons. She saw first hand how they treated Anakin and then her, they were quick to judge/blame and condemn her to death in the CW and would have if not for Anakin/Padme’. I think QG could have made a difference if he had survived Maul. Fun thread for sure.


    The Jedi were in decline by the PT. The Jedi Council was so inept it is almost comical.

    They were definitely not what they should have been.

    Actually, they were. If the Jedi were at the height of their power and ready for war, the Sith plan would never have worked.

    They were complacent after 1000 years of peace and crumbling with the rest of the Republic.

    So Palpatine basically used their arrogance or laziness against them, or do you think he knew this, their state of mind I mean, or did he get lucky by being at the right place at the right time.

    I'm sure he knew. The Rule of Two Sith manipulated the Jedi all the time. Zannah was the 1st Rule of Two apprentice and she infiltrated the Jedi Temple to get in to the archives. The Jedi were too strong after Ruusan for them to show themselves.

    It is more surprising that none of the Sith acted earlier, it is a Sith thing to do.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • Its a little confusing to me, is snoke and kylo sith or not cause kylo wants the sith and the jedi dead and snoke never mentioned anything about being a sith so what gives.
  • bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    Good post, it could be debated it was the Jedi who was at fault as much as Palpatome, maybe even more. Many of the main Jedi were arrogant @zz-hat *****. Remember, Qui’Gon also had issue with the council, they did exactly as Luke said in TLJ, in the height of their power they never expected Palpatine.

    They were jerks toward Anakin most of the the time, except my man Qui’Gon, (my fav Jedi with Luke and Anakin btw), and then Ashoka, who left for similar reasons. She saw first hand how they treated Anakin and then her, they were quick to judge/blame and condemn her to death in the CW and would have if not for Anakin/Padme’. I think QG could have made a difference if he had survived Maul. Fun thread for sure.


    The Jedi were in decline by the PT. The Jedi Council was so inept it is almost comical.

    They were definitely not what they should have been.

    Actually, they were. If the Jedi were at the height of their power and ready for war, the Sith plan would never have worked.

    They were complacent after 1000 years of peace and crumbling with the rest of the Republic.

    So Palpatine basically used their arrogance or laziness against them, or do you think he knew this, their state of mind I mean, or did he get lucky by being at the right place at the right time.

    I think palps was very lucky. Some might call it destiny, but we'll just call it lucky and assume the point of view of palpatine at the time all this happened simply because with hindsight it's easier to use the word destiny.

    Anakin was born out of the force at the perfect time for palpatine, and he was a very unstable person and easily open to manipulation. I mean that's a massive bonus for palps right there. Palps could of won it all without Anakin, but still he was a major asset. The Jedi never would of approached palpatine in force had palps never of told Anakin he was a Sith Lord and I'm sure palpatine would of delt with the Jedi using the clones and led the assault on the Jedi himself if he had to and just lied to the senate and the galaxy about what really happened.

    He also got lucky in terms of the Jedi becoming complacent and believing themselves to be all powerful.

    The political system and it's susceptibility to corruption at the time also gave him an edge in terms of high level manipulation from not only within, but also to persuade any star systems that might dislike this corruption to then break off and form the separatist movement. So he was in a position to cause more internal issues, which in turn would then guarantee even more conflict within the republic and lead to greater separatist numbers and pit the two factions against one another. Palpatine obviously could do a great deal to influence that situation, however a political atmosphere like that can't be set up by one man and would of been a long time coming. So that's another instance of pure luck for palpatine.

    Some people will say all the stuff about how he can see the future and it was all destined to happen. But so what. That's how the real world works as well. It's all set in motion from the beginning. Including thoughts and feelings. The word luck is interchangeable with the word destiny. They're both the same thing. This paragraph is just to stave off the people that will get into a debate about luck and palps ability to know the future haha.
  • bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    Good post, it could be debated it was the Jedi who was at fault as much as Palpatome, maybe even more. Many of the main Jedi were arrogant @zz-hat *****. Remember, Qui’Gon also had issue with the council, they did exactly as Luke said in TLJ, in the height of their power they never expected Palpatine.

    They were jerks toward Anakin most of the the time, except my man Qui’Gon, (my fav Jedi with Luke and Anakin btw), and then Ashoka, who left for similar reasons. She saw first hand how they treated Anakin and then her, they were quick to judge/blame and condemn her to death in the CW and would have if not for Anakin/Padme’. I think QG could have made a difference if he had survived Maul. Fun thread for sure.


    The Jedi were in decline by the PT. The Jedi Council was so inept it is almost comical.

    They were definitely not what they should have been.

    Actually, they were. If the Jedi were at the height of their power and ready for war, the Sith plan would never have worked.

    They were complacent after 1000 years of peace and crumbling with the rest of the Republic.

    I think thats what he meant when he said the Jedi weren't what they should of been. He meant they should of been better prepared.
  • Ppong_Man12
    2612 posts Member
    edited September 10
    https://m.ranker.com/list/awful-things-done-by-the-jedi/tamar-altebarmakian?ref=nxtlst&ltype=l&l=2599629&g=1&collectionId=699&li_source=LI&li_medium=mobile-next-list

    A few other good points about the Jedi and their faults depending on how you look at it. That’s a few of the reasons Qui’Gon is one of my favorite characters, he like Anakin and Ahsoka was different than the other Jedi.

    Also if you watched the clone wars Anakin actually knew what he would become and choose against it initially.


  • Even if they did somehow kill Palpatine, they would have to deal with Anakin supported by practically every Clone battalion, legion, corps, E.C. Plus, in an Empire, after Palpatine would die, it would be only natural for the role of Emperor to go to Anakin, since not only he was quite loved by the inhabitants of the galaxy, but he was Palpatine’s right hand man. Eventually, he would reach his full potential, and perhaps as a result, destroy every remaining Jedi in the galaxy.
    Open your eyes...
    ekn97qol2xso.gif

  • Rinku wrote: »
    Even if they did somehow kill Palpatine, they would have to deal with Anakin supported by practically every Clone battalion, legion, corps, E.C. Plus, in an Empire, after Palpatine would die, it would be only natural for the role of Emperor to go to Anakin, since not only he was quite loved by the inhabitants of the galaxy, but he was Palpatine’s right hand man. Eventually, he would reach his full potential, and perhaps as a result, destroy every remaining Jedi in the galaxy.

    I don't think it was natural for Anakin to be next in line. He was not apart of the government. There was never any indication that he was announced to be next in line. He wasn't related to palpatine. The senate still existed, so the most logical step would be for the senators to then vote in a new emperor. Just like how it would of been done back in Rome if an emperor died without an heir. Anakin didn't have the political connections at the beginning of the formation of the Empire. He could of assumed the role much later on, but not at the start.

    If Yoda and obi-wan had defeated palpatine, then it's possible they would of been able to convince the senate of palpatine's mastermind efforts to manipulate the entire galaxy into war in the first place. They already had that Alderaan senator guy on their side, who would testify to their innocence. So there would of been a period where there was in fact no emperor that Yoda and obi-wan could capitalise on. Anakin would still be a general in the military, however there's no doubt that the senate would order him to not take action. They even might attempt to arrest him along with Yoda and obi-wan until the whole mess is sorted out. Both sides would claim the other tried to take over the government. And both sides are extremely well respected members of the community.

    Probably the best thing to do is to just look at what eventually did happen with the emperor died. It all just went back to a republic like it was before. Yes I know Anakin wasn't around to claim emperor, however I'm just saying its what happened when the emperor died and no one was in a position to take over.

    I personally think if it went back to a republic at the time Yoda and palps fought and if palps died, then Anakin would eventually be screwed. They had the security holograms of him murdering kids and palpatine and him speaking about how they are Sith Lords. That would guarantee him no political support.
  • Rinku wrote: »
    Even if they did somehow kill Palpatine, they would have to deal with Anakin supported by practically every Clone battalion, legion, corps, E.C. Plus, in an Empire, after Palpatine would die, it would be only natural for the role of Emperor to go to Anakin, since not only he was quite loved by the inhabitants of the galaxy, but he was Palpatine’s right hand man. Eventually, he would reach his full potential, and perhaps as a result, destroy every remaining Jedi in the galaxy.

    I don't think it was natural for Anakin to be next in line. He was not apart of the government. There was never any indication that he was announced to be next in line. He wasn't related to palpatine. The senate still existed, so the most logical step would be for the senators to then vote in a new emperor. Just like how it would of been done back in Rome if an emperor died without an heir. Anakin didn't have the political connections at the beginning of the formation of the Empire. He could of assumed the role much later on, but not at the start.

    If Yoda and obi-wan had defeated palpatine, then it's possible they would of been able to convince the senate of palpatine's mastermind efforts to manipulate the entire galaxy into war in the first place. They already had that Alderaan senator guy on their side, who would testify to their innocence. So there would of been a period where there was in fact no emperor that Yoda and obi-wan could capitalise on. Anakin would still be a general in the military, however there's no doubt that the senate would order him to not take action. They even might attempt to arrest him along with Yoda and obi-wan until the whole mess is sorted out. Both sides would claim the other tried to take over the government. And both sides are extremely well respected members of the community.

    Probably the best thing to do is to just look at what eventually did happen with the emperor died. It all just went back to a republic like it was before. Yes I know Anakin wasn't around to claim emperor, however I'm just saying its what happened when the emperor died and no one was in a position to take over.

    I personally think if it went back to a republic at the time Yoda and palps fought and if palps died, then Anakin would eventually be screwed. They had the security holograms of him murdering kids and palpatine and him speaking about how they are Sith Lords. That would guarantee him no political support.

    Anakin in this case would be no different from someone like George Washington. Washington never wanted to become president, yet due to his reputation as a military leader he was loved to the point where everyone wanted him to become president. There’s really nothing preventing the SW universe to go along the lines of that.

    The senators were braindead in the first place which is why they cheered when Palpatine said that he will be turning the Republic into the Empire. Palpatine’s manipulation had gone far enough to make the senators just believe in Palpatine and hate the Jedi. I highly doubt anyone would believe the Jedi at that point.
    Open your eyes...
    ekn97qol2xso.gif

  • bfloo
    15713 posts Member
    Grievous15 wrote: »
    Its a little confusing to me, is snoke and kylo sith or not cause kylo wants the sith and the jedi dead and snoke never mentioned anything about being a sith so what gives.

    crylo and Snoke aren't Sith.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • Rinku wrote: »
    Rinku wrote: »
    Even if they did somehow kill Palpatine, they would have to deal with Anakin supported by practically every Clone battalion, legion, corps, E.C. Plus, in an Empire, after Palpatine would die, it would be only natural for the role of Emperor to go to Anakin, since not only he was quite loved by the inhabitants of the galaxy, but he was Palpatine’s right hand man. Eventually, he would reach his full potential, and perhaps as a result, destroy every remaining Jedi in the galaxy.

    I don't think it was natural for Anakin to be next in line. He was not apart of the government. There was never any indication that he was announced to be next in line. He wasn't related to palpatine. The senate still existed, so the most logical step would be for the senators to then vote in a new emperor. Just like how it would of been done back in Rome if an emperor died without an heir. Anakin didn't have the political connections at the beginning of the formation of the Empire. He could of assumed the role much later on, but not at the start.

    If Yoda and obi-wan had defeated palpatine, then it's possible they would of been able to convince the senate of palpatine's mastermind efforts to manipulate the entire galaxy into war in the first place. They already had that Alderaan senator guy on their side, who would testify to their innocence. So there would of been a period where there was in fact no emperor that Yoda and obi-wan could capitalise on. Anakin would still be a general in the military, however there's no doubt that the senate would order him to not take action. They even might attempt to arrest him along with Yoda and obi-wan until the whole mess is sorted out. Both sides would claim the other tried to take over the government. And both sides are extremely well respected members of the community.

    Probably the best thing to do is to just look at what eventually did happen with the emperor died. It all just went back to a republic like it was before. Yes I know Anakin wasn't around to claim emperor, however I'm just saying its what happened when the emperor died and no one was in a position to take over.

    I personally think if it went back to a republic at the time Yoda and palps fought and if palps died, then Anakin would eventually be screwed. They had the security holograms of him murdering kids and palpatine and him speaking about how they are Sith Lords. That would guarantee him no political support.

    Anakin in this case would be no different from someone like George Washington. Washington never wanted to become president, yet due to his reputation as a military leader he was loved to the point where everyone wanted him to become president. There’s really nothing preventing the SW universe to go along the lines of that.

    The senators were braindead in the first place which is why they cheered when Palpatine said that he will be turning the Republic into the Empire. Palpatine’s manipulation had gone far enough to make the senators just believe in Palpatine and hate the Jedi. I highly doubt anyone would believe the Jedi at that point.

    Well like I said. They wouldn't have to believe anything the Jedi said because of the security holograms recordings. They showed Anakin killing children and palpatine admitting to him that he was a Sith Lord and God knows what else was on those recordings. The senate weren't necessarily brain dead at that point. They had been misled and lied to by palps and no doubt anyone else he decided to surround himself with at the top. However if he had been dead and no threat of his powers around, and if these recordings had been released then it would be undeniable evidence to support the claim that he was majorly corrupt.

    I think there are massive differences between George Washington and Anakin haha Anakin certainly wasn't as respected as George Washington was amongst the other leaders of his time. There's no way a senate anywhere on earth or in star wars would vote in some 20 or so year old kid to lead a galactic Empire. This isn't some pre-industrial age society or something. This is a sophisticated community that would respect wisdom above pure natural instinct. The type of wisdom that only comes with age. Anakin couldn't handle the job anyway. He was a total mess after everything that happened in episode 3. Definitely not fit to run an empire.
  • bfloo
    15713 posts Member
    Being a Sith wasn't illegal in the Republic, due to religious freedom laws. Technically the Jedi committed high treason when they went after Palps. The war still hadn't ended at that point, so he wouldn't have had to step down.

    If you go by the novel, the Jedi didn't want to work with the senate and the senators against Palps didn't want to work with the Jedi.

    If they were successful in taking down Palps, another senator would have been chosen as the leader, not Anakin, despite his general popularity.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • bfloo wrote: »
    Being a Sith wasn't illegal in the Republic, due to religious freedom laws. Technically the Jedi committed high treason when they went after Palps. The war still hadn't ended at that point, so he wouldn't have had to step down.

    If you go by the novel, the Jedi didn't want to work with the senate and the senators against Palps didn't want to work with the Jedi.

    If they were successful in taking down Palps, another senator would have been chosen as the leader, not Anakin, despite his general popularity.

    Yeah maybe the Jedi should of handled it differently even once they knew he was a Sith. Perhaps they should of publicly outed him as a Sith so he received negative publicity. Then they should of proposed a vote to remove his emergency powers. Although I suppose keeping him in office any longer was a risk in itself. He did have control of the military. Who knows what he would of done if they just sat back and waited for a vote. He probably would of killed them anyway. They were in a tough position. Either forcefully remove him and commit high treason, or wait and see and possibly have the entire army to deal with if he just decided to order 66 them all anyway. I think they probably made the right move and any senator that got the job as emperor would of pardoned them if they had killed palps and then eventually reinstate diplomacy.
  • Rinku wrote: »
    Rinku wrote: »
    Even if they did somehow kill Palpatine, they would have to deal with Anakin supported by practically every Clone battalion, legion, corps, E.C. Plus, in an Empire, after Palpatine would die, it would be only natural for the role of Emperor to go to Anakin, since not only he was quite loved by the inhabitants of the galaxy, but he was Palpatine’s right hand man. Eventually, he would reach his full potential, and perhaps as a result, destroy every remaining Jedi in the galaxy.

    I don't think it was natural for Anakin to be next in line. He was not apart of the government. There was never any indication that he was announced to be next in line. He wasn't related to palpatine. The senate still existed, so the most logical step would be for the senators to then vote in a new emperor. Just like how it would of been done back in Rome if an emperor died without an heir. Anakin didn't have the political connections at the beginning of the formation of the Empire. He could of assumed the role much later on, but not at the start.

    If Yoda and obi-wan had defeated palpatine, then it's possible they would of been able to convince the senate of palpatine's mastermind efforts to manipulate the entire galaxy into war in the first place. They already had that Alderaan senator guy on their side, who would testify to their innocence. So there would of been a period where there was in fact no emperor that Yoda and obi-wan could capitalise on. Anakin would still be a general in the military, however there's no doubt that the senate would order him to not take action. They even might attempt to arrest him along with Yoda and obi-wan until the whole mess is sorted out. Both sides would claim the other tried to take over the government. And both sides are extremely well respected members of the community.

    Probably the best thing to do is to just look at what eventually did happen with the emperor died. It all just went back to a republic like it was before. Yes I know Anakin wasn't around to claim emperor, however I'm just saying its what happened when the emperor died and no one was in a position to take over.

    I personally think if it went back to a republic at the time Yoda and palps fought and if palps died, then Anakin would eventually be screwed. They had the security holograms of him murdering kids and palpatine and him speaking about how they are Sith Lords. That would guarantee him no political support.

    Anakin in this case would be no different from someone like George Washington. Washington never wanted to become president, yet due to his reputation as a military leader he was loved to the point where everyone wanted him to become president. There’s really nothing preventing the SW universe to go along the lines of that.

    The senators were braindead in the first place which is why they cheered when Palpatine said that he will be turning the Republic into the Empire. Palpatine’s manipulation had gone far enough to make the senators just believe in Palpatine and hate the Jedi. I highly doubt anyone would believe the Jedi at that point.

    Well like I said. They wouldn't have to believe anything the Jedi said because of the security holograms recordings. They showed Anakin killing children and palpatine admitting to him that he was a Sith Lord and God knows what else was on those recordings. The senate weren't necessarily brain dead at that point. They had been misled and lied to by palps and no doubt anyone else he decided to surround himself with at the top. However if he had been dead and no threat of his powers around, and if these recordings had been released then it would be undeniable evidence to support the claim that he was majorly corrupt.

    I think there are massive differences between George Washington and Anakin haha Anakin certainly wasn't as respected as George Washington was amongst the other leaders of his time. There's no way a senate anywhere on earth or in star wars would vote in some 20 or so year old kid to lead a galactic Empire. This isn't some pre-industrial age society or something. This is a sophisticated community that would respect wisdom above pure natural instinct. The type of wisdom that only comes with age. Anakin couldn't handle the job anyway. He was a total mess after everything that happened in episode 3. Definitely not fit to run an empire.

    As bfloo mentioned, there was nothing really wrong about being a Sith Lord, although i can see Anakin get executed if they show the Younglings hologram, if that is they can catch him.

    This could also lead to a different ending if it means Obi-Wan never showed up in Padme’s ship. She could have convinced Anakin to do something else other than kill everyone.

    I personally think Anakin was much more respected due to the fact that he had won every single battle he had with the CIS, from the public’s point of view at least. While the Clone Wars may have been short, it spanned over multiple galaxy’s, not to forget the danger imposed by certain CIS droids (Droidekas.) The Senate would always look for a strong leader who can pull them out of tough situations and bring peace to the galaxy, which Anakin has proved himself able to do so multiple times.
    Open your eyes...
    ekn97qol2xso.gif

  • Rinku wrote: »
    Rinku wrote: »
    Rinku wrote: »
    Even if they did somehow kill Palpatine, they would have to deal with Anakin supported by practically every Clone battalion, legion, corps, E.C. Plus, in an Empire, after Palpatine would die, it would be only natural for the role of Emperor to go to Anakin, since not only he was quite loved by the inhabitants of the galaxy, but he was Palpatine’s right hand man. Eventually, he would reach his full potential, and perhaps as a result, destroy every remaining Jedi in the galaxy.

    I don't think it was natural for Anakin to be next in line. He was not apart of the government. There was never any indication that he was announced to be next in line. He wasn't related to palpatine. The senate still existed, so the most logical step would be for the senators to then vote in a new emperor. Just like how it would of been done back in Rome if an emperor died without an heir. Anakin didn't have the political connections at the beginning of the formation of the Empire. He could of assumed the role much later on, but not at the start.

    If Yoda and obi-wan had defeated palpatine, then it's possible they would of been able to convince the senate of palpatine's mastermind efforts to manipulate the entire galaxy into war in the first place. They already had that Alderaan senator guy on their side, who would testify to their innocence. So there would of been a period where there was in fact no emperor that Yoda and obi-wan could capitalise on. Anakin would still be a general in the military, however there's no doubt that the senate would order him to not take action. They even might attempt to arrest him along with Yoda and obi-wan until the whole mess is sorted out. Both sides would claim the other tried to take over the government. And both sides are extremely well respected members of the community.

    Probably the best thing to do is to just look at what eventually did happen with the emperor died. It all just went back to a republic like it was before. Yes I know Anakin wasn't around to claim emperor, however I'm just saying its what happened when the emperor died and no one was in a position to take over.

    I personally think if it went back to a republic at the time Yoda and palps fought and if palps died, then Anakin would eventually be screwed. They had the security holograms of him murdering kids and palpatine and him speaking about how they are Sith Lords. That would guarantee him no political support.

    Anakin in this case would be no different from someone like George Washington. Washington never wanted to become president, yet due to his reputation as a military leader he was loved to the point where everyone wanted him to become president. There’s really nothing preventing the SW universe to go along the lines of that.

    The senators were braindead in the first place which is why they cheered when Palpatine said that he will be turning the Republic into the Empire. Palpatine’s manipulation had gone far enough to make the senators just believe in Palpatine and hate the Jedi. I highly doubt anyone would believe the Jedi at that point.

    Well like I said. They wouldn't have to believe anything the Jedi said because of the security holograms recordings. They showed Anakin killing children and palpatine admitting to him that he was a Sith Lord and God knows what else was on those recordings. The senate weren't necessarily brain dead at that point. They had been misled and lied to by palps and no doubt anyone else he decided to surround himself with at the top. However if he had been dead and no threat of his powers around, and if these recordings had been released then it would be undeniable evidence to support the claim that he was majorly corrupt.

    I think there are massive differences between George Washington and Anakin haha Anakin certainly wasn't as respected as George Washington was amongst the other leaders of his time. There's no way a senate anywhere on earth or in star wars would vote in some 20 or so year old kid to lead a galactic Empire. This isn't some pre-industrial age society or something. This is a sophisticated community that would respect wisdom above pure natural instinct. The type of wisdom that only comes with age. Anakin couldn't handle the job anyway. He was a total mess after everything that happened in episode 3. Definitely not fit to run an empire.

    As bfloo mentioned, there was nothing really wrong about being a Sith Lord, although i can see Anakin get executed if they show the Younglings hologram, if that is they can catch him.

    This could also lead to a different ending if it means Obi-Wan never showed up in Padme’s ship. She could have convinced Anakin to do something else other than kill everyone.

    I personally think Anakin was much more respected due to the fact that he had won every single battle he had with the CIS, from the public’s point of view at least. While the Clone Wars may have been short, it spanned over multiple galaxy’s, not to forget the danger imposed by certain CIS droids (Droidekas.) The Senate would always look for a strong leader who can pull them out of tough situations and bring peace to the galaxy, which Anakin has proved himself able to do so multiple times.

    He said it wasn't illegal. However it would definitely be frowned upon to be a Sith Lord. That's what I meant by how they would receive negative publicity.

    Clone wars was in one galaxy btw. I think you meant star systems.

    Yes the senate would look for a strong leader. But the entire senate is made up of leaders. That's who those people are. They chosen leaders of their star systems and I just don't see them voting in a 20 something year old Jedi just because he's had a successful military career. They would know what the current American political system already knows, which is that wisdom comes from age as well as experience. America knows it to the point a law is in place to prevent a young president. And we're talking about a galaxy here. They would have to get the majority of star systems to be ok with having a young man as their leader. I just don't see that ever happening.
  • Rinku wrote: »
    Rinku wrote: »
    Rinku wrote: »
    Even if they did somehow kill Palpatine, they would have to deal with Anakin supported by practically every Clone battalion, legion, corps, E.C. Plus, in an Empire, after Palpatine would die, it would be only natural for the role of Emperor to go to Anakin, since not only he was quite loved by the inhabitants of the galaxy, but he was Palpatine’s right hand man. Eventually, he would reach his full potential, and perhaps as a result, destroy every remaining Jedi in the galaxy.

    I don't think it was natural for Anakin to be next in line. He was not apart of the government. There was never any indication that he was announced to be next in line. He wasn't related to palpatine. The senate still existed, so the most logical step would be for the senators to then vote in a new emperor. Just like how it would of been done back in Rome if an emperor died without an heir. Anakin didn't have the political connections at the beginning of the formation of the Empire. He could of assumed the role much later on, but not at the start.

    If Yoda and obi-wan had defeated palpatine, then it's possible they would of been able to convince the senate of palpatine's mastermind efforts to manipulate the entire galaxy into war in the first place. They already had that Alderaan senator guy on their side, who would testify to their innocence. So there would of been a period where there was in fact no emperor that Yoda and obi-wan could capitalise on. Anakin would still be a general in the military, however there's no doubt that the senate would order him to not take action. They even might attempt to arrest him along with Yoda and obi-wan until the whole mess is sorted out. Both sides would claim the other tried to take over the government. And both sides are extremely well respected members of the community.

    Probably the best thing to do is to just look at what eventually did happen with the emperor died. It all just went back to a republic like it was before. Yes I know Anakin wasn't around to claim emperor, however I'm just saying its what happened when the emperor died and no one was in a position to take over.

    I personally think if it went back to a republic at the time Yoda and palps fought and if palps died, then Anakin would eventually be screwed. They had the security holograms of him murdering kids and palpatine and him speaking about how they are Sith Lords. That would guarantee him no political support.

    Anakin in this case would be no different from someone like George Washington. Washington never wanted to become president, yet due to his reputation as a military leader he was loved to the point where everyone wanted him to become president. There’s really nothing preventing the SW universe to go along the lines of that.

    The senators were braindead in the first place which is why they cheered when Palpatine said that he will be turning the Republic into the Empire. Palpatine’s manipulation had gone far enough to make the senators just believe in Palpatine and hate the Jedi. I highly doubt anyone would believe the Jedi at that point.

    Well like I said. They wouldn't have to believe anything the Jedi said because of the security holograms recordings. They showed Anakin killing children and palpatine admitting to him that he was a Sith Lord and God knows what else was on those recordings. The senate weren't necessarily brain dead at that point. They had been misled and lied to by palps and no doubt anyone else he decided to surround himself with at the top. However if he had been dead and no threat of his powers around, and if these recordings had been released then it would be undeniable evidence to support the claim that he was majorly corrupt.

    I think there are massive differences between George Washington and Anakin haha Anakin certainly wasn't as respected as George Washington was amongst the other leaders of his time. There's no way a senate anywhere on earth or in star wars would vote in some 20 or so year old kid to lead a galactic Empire. This isn't some pre-industrial age society or something. This is a sophisticated community that would respect wisdom above pure natural instinct. The type of wisdom that only comes with age. Anakin couldn't handle the job anyway. He was a total mess after everything that happened in episode 3. Definitely not fit to run an empire.

    As bfloo mentioned, there was nothing really wrong about being a Sith Lord, although i can see Anakin get executed if they show the Younglings hologram, if that is they can catch him.

    This could also lead to a different ending if it means Obi-Wan never showed up in Padme’s ship. She could have convinced Anakin to do something else other than kill everyone.

    I personally think Anakin was much more respected due to the fact that he had won every single battle he had with the CIS, from the public’s point of view at least. While the Clone Wars may have been short, it spanned over multiple galaxy’s, not to forget the danger imposed by certain CIS droids (Droidekas.) The Senate would always look for a strong leader who can pull them out of tough situations and bring peace to the galaxy, which Anakin has proved himself able to do so multiple times.

    He said it wasn't illegal. However it would definitely be frowned upon to be a Sith Lord. That's what I meant by how they would receive negative publicity.

    Clone wars was in one galaxy btw. I think you meant star systems.

    Yes the senate would look for a strong leader. But the entire senate is made up of leaders. That's who those people are. They chosen leaders of their star systems and I just don't see them voting in a 20 something year old Jedi just because he's had a successful military career. They would know what the current American political system already knows, which is that wisdom comes from age as well as experience. America knows it to the point a law is in place to prevent a young president. And we're talking about a galaxy here. They would have to get the majority of star systems to be ok with having a young man as their leader. I just don't see that ever happening.

    I agreed with everything you said. Well done.
    Open your eyes...
    ekn97qol2xso.gif

  • Palpatine would obliterate Obi-Wan in a heartbeat.
    Your journey nears its end.
    fg4b6t2kcplam2qmfrnt.gif
  • Yes, they should have. Go together, kill Palpatine, stop the rise of the Empire before it even begins and then go and face Anakin, maybe even with Padmé to try and talk some sense into him or else. Roll Credits.
    Don't even start with the 3 ***** that went along with Windu who pretty much forgot how to block in the same fashion as when Maul just stared while Obi-Wan cut him in half. Yoda couldn't beat Palpatine and Palpatine couldn't beat Yoda so odds are he wouldn't have been able to hold both of them off.
    It also goes without saying that the smallest amount of common sense would have foiled all of Palpatine's plans and therefore Anakin's decent to the darkside.
    1. Investigate the creation of the Clone Army a little more than nothing at all.
    2. Obi-Wan literally has hologram evidence of Anakin killing Younglings and turning to the Darkside. Copy it to a flash drive, give it to Organa and broadcast it over the Senate meeting (yes I know, Palpatine WAS the senate).
    3. "I move for a vote of no confidence on Chanciller Valorum Palpatine".
    4. If Grievous was the supposedly the only commander of the Droid army after Dooku died then why not send both Obi-Wan AND Anakin to kill him. Killing Grievous would have ended the war. So why send only Obi-Wan? After all, they both went to "save" Palpatine. This alone would have changed everything. No opposition for the War=War won=No reason for Palpatine to stay in power=No Empire=Anakin doesn't turn=Roll credits.
    5. You learned Palpatine is a Sith, how about you arrest him in public instead of in his private offices. If he defends himself, he's exposed. If he doesn't, problem solved.
    6. Yoda failed, Obi-Wan didn't. Yoda: "Hey Obi, I wasn't able to get him on my own. Seeing as you mutilated Anakin, how about we DO go together now". Obi-Wan: "Nah, what's the point? I have to deliver that kid to the farm anyways and you're gonna be late for dinner on that swamp. Besides, how bad could the Empire really be?"

    This is why I just can't get behind the prequels. I just can't overlook the lack of common sense there is (and so many other unrelated things as well). I watched the Clone Wars (and I liked it, Anakin is even a good character there). Anakin is a war hero, he's won so much for the Republic. So the only reason I can't think of for the bad treatment and distrust he got from the Council is that RotS came before TCW, maybe Season 7 will retcon this.
  • Palpatine would obliterate Obi-Wan in a heartbeat.

    That's nice. I said obi-wan and Yoda though.
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