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Stop the Nerf Herders!

I remember when I first started playing Battlefront 2015. There was such I variety of starcards. Then the Nerf Herders came and complained about every good weapon in the game. By the end of the game there was only about 5-6 viable cards to attach to your trooper. I see the same happening again with Battlefront II. Boba Fett has one decent card that makes him playable, Nerf Herders-Nerf It! Finn has a big deal ability which gives him an ever so slight of a change against a saber hero, Nerf Herders-Nerf it! Worst of all is the stinger pistol. This weapon was about the only chance a trooper had against a hero. It was not overpowered, it just worked. A trooper would have to hit a hero about 10 times with the weapon to kill them which is fair, but the Nerf Herders got there way with that one too. It has been reduced to a literal nerf gun.

The loadout options are getting ever so slimmer. What is the point in having loadouts when everyone uses the same 3 cards for their classes because everything has been nerfed into the ground? I do understand that nerfs are sometimes necessary, (Anakin at launch) but 80% of the time, they are not. Anytime bad players can't deal with a weapon, they run to the forums and whine for it to be nerfed, and they usually get what they want.

Replies

  • While I have a feeling that we might not agree on the specifics, I do generally agree that the nerfs, especially hard nerfs, ought to stop and (like I’ve said before) that DICE ought to do a poll of some sort before moving forward with “controversial” ones anyway. I’d much prefer things be buffed rather than nerfed as a rule but if something does have do be nerfed, it should be done incrementally (ex. instead of removing Vader’s choke DR entirely, try reducing to 50% and then 25% if that wasn’t enough and so on).
  • Alwyzgamin
    12 posts Member
    edited October 28
    I keep getting the impression they want this game especially Hvv to be playable with no skills or practice or experience etc. I dont know anyone who complained about Finn being op but he was nerfed anyway. A blaster hero with no stun, bombs or any form of crowd control just a gun & buffs. I killed him & his team quite often & now its even easier...thanks I guess.
  • Alwyzgamin wrote: »
    I keep getting the impression they want this game especially Hvv to be playable with no skills or practice or experience etc. I dont know anyone who complained about Finn being op but he was nerfed anyway. A blaster hero with no stun, bombs or any form of crowd control just a gun & buffs. I killed him & his team quite often & now its even easier...thanks I guess.

    While we don’t know for sure, I’m fairly confident that the Finn DR nerf is a bug rather than a feature. Given that it’s a hero change, and especially considering the responses following announcement of the other recent DR removals/nerfs, I doubt that DICE would’ve intentionally stealth nerfed Finn.

    While may use this as an opportunity to tweak his DR anyway, I think it’s safe to say that his DR, in some capacity, will be restored soon.
  • Using my daily bump since the topic seems to be relevant again today.
  • Absolutely agree. Why touch perfectly good heros and make them objectively worse. No one wants to have their favorite hero nurtured. An Overwatch Dev once said that the best way to nerf a character is to buff their counter. Boba giving you too much trouble? Buff Finns deadeye a bit, fix Landos Sharpshot. Give leia some love like a destroyable shield so she can use it when she needs to but not get it stolen by the dark side and be screwed over by her own ability. The only time people want nerfs are when a no skill character can wipe entire teams (Ani Palp, OG chewie)
    Dice please stop making characters worse and just focus on making the bad ones better. You will get such better feedback by making everyone viable before you start cutting off characters balls (lando, boba, chewie, launch Finn, leias only block breaking move) too many to count.
  • Ultimately, DICE and EA need to get real customer feedback through polls which they patch into the home screen of the game before making decisions to remove content. I can agree with your POV.
  • What's wrong? Heroes and villains aren't killing enough per spawn? I'm almost always encountering a hero or a villain that runs around slaying about a dozen while I try to eke out a path to an objective or defend a post.
  • What's wrong? Heroes and villains aren't killing enough per spawn? I'm almost always encountering a hero or a villain that runs around slaying about a dozen while I try to eke out a path to an objective or defend a post.

    Your comment is valid, but the problem is attributed to there being too many heroes on the field at once, not how strong they are.
  • how logical of a thinker you are...
    I should've restrained my valid observation.
  • Alwyzgamin wrote: »
    I keep getting the impression they want this game especially Hvv to be playable with no skills or practice or experience etc. I dont know anyone who complained about Finn being op but he was nerfed anyway. A blaster hero with no stun, bombs or any form of crowd control just a gun & buffs. I killed him & his team quite often & now its even easier...thanks I guess.

    Well, this is always going to be a problem with online games of this kind, isn't it? A minority of people who play the game spend hours upon hours, week after week, honing their "skills" at the game, while others (probably the majority of people buying the game) just want a bit of fun, playing a few rounds every week. How do you make a game that suits both kinds of players? Why shouldn't a game be playable and enjoyable for people who don't sink a huge amount of time into becoming "skilled" players? They paid the same amount for the game.
  • bfloo
    15972 posts Member
    JamesP42 wrote: »
    Alwyzgamin wrote: »
    I keep getting the impression they want this game especially Hvv to be playable with no skills or practice or experience etc. I dont know anyone who complained about Finn being op but he was nerfed anyway. A blaster hero with no stun, bombs or any form of crowd control just a gun & buffs. I killed him & his team quite often & now its even easier...thanks I guess.

    Well, this is always going to be a problem with online games of this kind, isn't it? A minority of people who play the game spend hours upon hours, week after week, honing their "skills" at the game, while others (probably the majority of people buying the game) just want a bit of fun, playing a few rounds every week. How do you make a game that suits both kinds of players? Why shouldn't a game be playable and enjoyable for people who don't sink a huge amount of time into becoming "skilled" players? They paid the same amount for the game.

    EA failed the players who don't want to spend 100 hours a month by waiting this long for a sp Star Wars game.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • Sejanus_4 wrote: »
    I remember when I first started playing Battlefront 2015. There was such I variety of starcards. Then the Nerf Herders came and complained about every good weapon in the game. By the end of the game there was only about 5-6 viable cards to attach to your trooper. I see the same happening again with Battlefront II. Boba Fett has one decent card that makes him playable, Nerf Herders-Nerf It! Finn has a big deal ability which gives him an ever so slight of a change against a saber hero, Nerf Herders-Nerf it! Worst of all is the stinger pistol. This weapon was about the only chance a trooper had against a hero. It was not overpowered, it just worked. A trooper would have to hit a hero about 10 times with the weapon to kill them which is fair, but the Nerf Herders got there way with that one too. It has been reduced to a literal nerf gun.

    The loadout options are getting ever so slimmer. What is the point in having loadouts when everyone uses the same 3 cards for their classes because everything has been nerfed into the ground? I do understand that nerfs are sometimes necessary, (Anakin at launch) but 80% of the time, they are not. Anytime bad players can't deal with a weapon, they run to the forums and whine for it to be nerfed, and they usually get what they want.

    You must be a hero main...I guess you care less if your team team wins or loses for as long as you can get your handa on the majority of these broken heroes.
  • You must be a hero main...I guess you care less if your team team wins or loses for as long as you can get your handa on the majority of these broken heroes.

    My main point was sticking up for the Stinger Pistol, (an anti-hero weapon) and that's what you got from my post? or you didn't really read it and just junk replied, the more likely scenario.
  • bfloo
    15972 posts Member
    Sejanus_4 wrote: »
    I remember when I first started playing Battlefront 2015. There was such I variety of starcards. Then the Nerf Herders came and complained about every good weapon in the game. By the end of the game there was only about 5-6 viable cards to attach to your trooper. I see the same happening again with Battlefront II. Boba Fett has one decent card that makes him playable, Nerf Herders-Nerf It! Finn has a big deal ability which gives him an ever so slight of a change against a saber hero, Nerf Herders-Nerf it! Worst of all is the stinger pistol. This weapon was about the only chance a trooper had against a hero. It was not overpowered, it just worked. A trooper would have to hit a hero about 10 times with the weapon to kill them which is fair, but the Nerf Herders got there way with that one too. It has been reduced to a literal nerf gun.

    The loadout options are getting ever so slimmer. What is the point in having loadouts when everyone uses the same 3 cards for their classes because everything has been nerfed into the ground? I do understand that nerfs are sometimes necessary, (Anakin at launch) but 80% of the time, they are not. Anytime bad players can't deal with a weapon, they run to the forums and whine for it to be nerfed, and they usually get what they want.

    You must be a hero main...I guess you care less if your team team wins or loses for as long as you can get your handa on the majority of these broken heroes.

    What implies that he is a hero main?

    He described how this game evolved to a T.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • bfloo wrote: »
    Sejanus_4 wrote: »
    I remember when I first started playing Battlefront 2015. There was such I variety of starcards. Then the Nerf Herders came and complained about every good weapon in the game. By the end of the game there was only about 5-6 viable cards to attach to your trooper. I see the same happening again with Battlefront II. Boba Fett has one decent card that makes him playable, Nerf Herders-Nerf It! Finn has a big deal ability which gives him an ever so slight of a change against a saber hero, Nerf Herders-Nerf it! Worst of all is the stinger pistol. This weapon was about the only chance a trooper had against a hero. It was not overpowered, it just worked. A trooper would have to hit a hero about 10 times with the weapon to kill them which is fair, but the Nerf Herders got there way with that one too. It has been reduced to a literal nerf gun.

    The loadout options are getting ever so slimmer. What is the point in having loadouts when everyone uses the same 3 cards for their classes because everything has been nerfed into the ground? I do understand that nerfs are sometimes necessary, (Anakin at launch) but 80% of the time, they are not. Anytime bad players can't deal with a weapon, they run to the forums and whine for it to be nerfed, and they usually get what they want.

    You must be a hero main...I guess you care less if your team team wins or loses for as long as you can get your handa on the majority of these broken heroes.

    What implies that he is a hero main?

    He described how this game evolved to a T.

    Hero mains are the ones who play this game just to get their hands on those OP characters...They don't care about the objective, attacking enemy heroes or help secure areas. They don't their units nerfed because the lack of skill won't translate well with a weak unit.
  • bfloo
    15972 posts Member
    bfloo wrote: »
    Sejanus_4 wrote: »
    I remember when I first started playing Battlefront 2015. There was such I variety of starcards. Then the Nerf Herders came and complained about every good weapon in the game. By the end of the game there was only about 5-6 viable cards to attach to your trooper. I see the same happening again with Battlefront II. Boba Fett has one decent card that makes him playable, Nerf Herders-Nerf It! Finn has a big deal ability which gives him an ever so slight of a change against a saber hero, Nerf Herders-Nerf it! Worst of all is the stinger pistol. This weapon was about the only chance a trooper had against a hero. It was not overpowered, it just worked. A trooper would have to hit a hero about 10 times with the weapon to kill them which is fair, but the Nerf Herders got there way with that one too. It has been reduced to a literal nerf gun.

    The loadout options are getting ever so slimmer. What is the point in having loadouts when everyone uses the same 3 cards for their classes because everything has been nerfed into the ground? I do understand that nerfs are sometimes necessary, (Anakin at launch) but 80% of the time, they are not. Anytime bad players can't deal with a weapon, they run to the forums and whine for it to be nerfed, and they usually get what they want.

    You must be a hero main...I guess you care less if your team team wins or loses for as long as you can get your handa on the majority of these broken heroes.

    What implies that he is a hero main?

    He described how this game evolved to a T.

    Hero mains are the ones who play this game just to get their hands on those OP characters...They don't care about the objective, attacking enemy heroes or help secure areas. They don't their units nerfed because the lack of skill won't translate well with a weak unit.

    He's complaining about all the nerfs to the counters.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • Good ideas on both sides of this issue. Here's my problem: The purpose of buffs and nerfs is to "balance" elements of the game. Is "balance" really the guiding principle of DICE's creative decisions? I think the evidence suggests that it is not.

    DICE operates more like a political party than a game developer in this respect: They have no concept of what is good for the game as a whole or for the player base in general. Instead, they divide players into interest groups and then try to reverse-engineer gameplay mechanics to appease everyone. This is, of course, a futile strategy.

    What are the main interest groups?

    a) Already mentioned in the thread are newcomers and chronically low-skill players who, with little more effort than what it takes to spam the attack button, can perform relatively well most of the time in HvV with a saber hero. I confess I'm sympathetic to the problem embodied by members of this group. It's no fun to get slaughtered when you first start playing a game. And it's understandable and necessary that DICE continues to attract new players to keep the game alive. But the ideal configuration would strongly favor the experienced and highly-skilled players over the newcomers and ***** even to the extent that, for example, one member of the former could defeat two or three members of the latter at the same time in unconstrained saber combat. Sure, it happens. But not often.

    b) At the other end of the interest-group spectrum are the officer tryhards. Their goal is to exploit the most obvious, deliberate, and persistent imbalances in the game (e.g., battle points allocation, damage output per time unit) to grab heroes and go on killstreaks. I respect the art of killstreakers, by the way, and I certainly don't doubt the very high skill level of many officer mains, but overloading one class with extreme advantages certainly damages the integrity of gameplay, and it leads to absurdities like a squad of teammates playing together on the same team with 15 officers out of 20 total players. This absurdity seems to occur more frequently all the time, and I always recognize the same names. I hasten to add that, yes, we can quibble about the details of what "balance" would mean in the case of the officer class, but the objective measurements of "brokenness" and "OP" can't be disputed.

    There are other interest groups across the spectrum, and obviously individuals can participate in more than one group. But I think it'll help people to understand why DICE makes such remarkably stupid choices over and over again when bearing in mind this political analogy. All the buffs and nerfs aren't meant to improve gameplay. They're meant to appease certain groups at the expense of others.
  • Good ideas on both sides of this issue. Here's my problem: The purpose of buffs and nerfs is to "balance" elements of the game. Is "balance" really the guiding principle of DICE's creative decisions? I think the evidence suggests that it is not.

    DICE operates more like a political party than a game developer in this respect: They have no concept of what is good for the game as a whole or for the player base in general. Instead, they divide players into interest groups and then try to reverse-engineer gameplay mechanics to appease everyone. This is, of course, a futile strategy.

    What are the main interest groups?

    a) Already mentioned in the thread are newcomers and chronically low-skill players who, with little more effort than what it takes to spam the attack button, can perform relatively well most of the time in HvV with a saber hero. I confess I'm sympathetic to the problem embodied by members of this group. It's no fun to get slaughtered when you first start playing a game. And it's understandable and necessary that DICE continues to attract new players to keep the game alive. But the ideal configuration would strongly favor the experienced and highly-skilled players over the newcomers and ***** even to the extent that, for example, one member of the former could defeat two or three members of the latter at the same time in unconstrained saber combat. Sure, it happens. But not often.

    b) At the other end of the interest-group spectrum are the officer tryhards. Their goal is to exploit the most obvious, deliberate, and persistent imbalances in the game (e.g., battle points allocation, damage output per time unit) to grab heroes and go on killstreaks. I respect the art of killstreakers, by the way, and I certainly don't doubt the very high skill level of many officer mains, but overloading one class with extreme advantages certainly damages the integrity of gameplay, and it leads to absurdities like a squad of teammates playing together on the same team with 15 officers out of 20 total players. This absurdity seems to occur more frequently all the time, and I always recognize the same names. I hasten to add that, yes, we can quibble about the details of what "balance" would mean in the case of the officer class, but the objective measurements of "brokenness" and "OP" can't be disputed.

    There are other interest groups across the spectrum, and obviously individuals can participate in more than one group. But I think it'll help people to understand why DICE makes such remarkably stupid choices over and over again when bearing in mind this political analogy. All the buffs and nerfs aren't meant to improve gameplay. They're meant to appease certain groups at the expense of others.

    You sir are a legend. Got the game since release and I relate to this so much. I honestly have to say for a while I was a b) person in it’s first year but now I’ve humbled myself to accept that no excessive nerfs need to occur but buffs to other areas so as to attract attention.

    I agree with you 100% all the way.
  • Good ideas on both sides of this issue. Here's my problem: The purpose of buffs and nerfs is to "balance" elements of the game. Is "balance" really the guiding principle of DICE's creative decisions? I think the evidence suggests that it is not.

    DICE operates more like a political party than a game developer in this respect: They have no concept of what is good for the game as a whole or for the player base in general. Instead, they divide players into interest groups and then try to reverse-engineer gameplay mechanics to appease everyone. This is, of course, a futile strategy.

    What are the main interest groups?

    a) Already mentioned in the thread are newcomers and chronically low-skill players who, with little more effort than what it takes to spam the attack button, can perform relatively well most of the time in HvV with a saber hero. I confess I'm sympathetic to the problem embodied by members of this group. It's no fun to get slaughtered when you first start playing a game. And it's understandable and necessary that DICE continues to attract new players to keep the game alive. But the ideal configuration would strongly favor the experienced and highly-skilled players over the newcomers and ***** even to the extent that, for example, one member of the former could defeat two or three members of the latter at the same time in unconstrained saber combat. Sure, it happens. But not often.

    b) At the other end of the interest-group spectrum are the officer tryhards. Their goal is to exploit the most obvious, deliberate, and persistent imbalances in the game (e.g., battle points allocation, damage output per time unit) to grab heroes and go on killstreaks. I respect the art of killstreakers, by the way, and I certainly don't doubt the very high skill level of many officer mains, but overloading one class with extreme advantages certainly damages the integrity of gameplay, and it leads to absurdities like a squad of teammates playing together on the same team with 15 officers out of 20 total players. This absurdity seems to occur more frequently all the time, and I always recognize the same names. I hasten to add that, yes, we can quibble about the details of what "balance" would mean in the case of the officer class, but the objective measurements of "brokenness" and "OP" can't be disputed.

    There are other interest groups across the spectrum, and obviously individuals can participate in more than one group. But I think it'll help people to understand why DICE makes such remarkably stupid choices over and over again when bearing in mind this political analogy. All the buffs and nerfs aren't meant to improve gameplay. They're meant to appease certain groups at the expense of others.

    You sir are a legend. Got the game since release and I relate to this so much. I honestly have to say for a while I was a b) person in it’s first year but now I’ve humbled myself to accept that no excessive nerfs need to occur but buffs to other areas so as to attract attention.

    I agree with you 100% all the way.

    Clearly you never played the game when Anakin was OP as hell.
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