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So, at last, Rey was not a...

Liz4rD
1147 posts Member
So, at last, Rey wasn't a Mary Sue, huh?

B)

Replies

  • I mean, ok she trained in this movie.
    But that doesnt exactly make up for the two days in TFA and TLJ where she had jedi knight-level mastery of the force prior to no training/knowledge of the force.
    Sorry but her simply being Palpatine’s granddaughter is not a good explanation.

    For further reference:
    https://bleedingfool.com/blogs/did-jj-abrams-just-admit-rey-is-a-star-wars-mary-sue/
    B)
    Hey Man.
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  • Nopeeeeeeee
  • I liked TROS but how about when the two ladies are kissing and then Rey taps one on the shoulder and says "mind if I cut in?"
  • she's not even close to a Mary Sue at this point because
    She was manhandled by Snoke, kylo saved her. She lost her duel to Kylo Ren until Leia jumped in. She also was killed beating palpatine. Also her power comes from the fact she's the child of one of the most powerful sith Lords of all time.
    so no, unless your being a sexist, she might be a weak character, but she's not a "Mary Sue".
  • Strogg1980 wrote: »
    she's not even close to a Mary Sue at this point because
    She was manhandled by Snoke, kylo saved her. She lost her duel to Kylo Ren until Leia jumped in. She also was killed beating palpatine. Also her power comes from the fact she's the child of one of the most powerful sith Lords of all time.
    so no, unless your being a sexist, she might be a weak character, but she's not a "Mary Sue".

    Yeah Im sorry but uh...She beat Kylo in TFA with no training? Like ZERO. You can use the excuse he got shot but
    1. He still beat Finn
    2. He got shot on his left arm not his right. He wields his lightsaber with his right.
    3. She lifted all those rocks in TLJ. Once again she shouldn't be able to do this. Look at Luke. Even after some time training with Yoda Luke could only still like 4 or 5 small rocks. Meanwhile Rey lifted like 20 Boulders.
    4. Say all the Jedi live within Rey is a cheap writers excuse to not have to write a good ending. Its LAZY. Why didnt all the Jedi live within Yoda when he fought palps?

    All in All. She is still a Mary Sue. I like her better than before but yeah still a Mary Sue
    Baby Yoda is the absolute greatest character Disney has created.

    Baby Yoda is love, Baby Yoda is life.

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  • would definitely watch a Disney+ series about Rey, discovering new facets to her personality
  • bfloo
    16577 posts Member
    would definitely watch a Disney+ series about Rey, discovering new facets to her personality

    We'd be better off having Mel Brooks make 'The Search for Rey's Personality'
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  • Batman20
    2304 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    She was still too good at everything even with her being a Palpatine but I no longer have a big issue with it at least we have an explanation
  • Batman20 wrote: »
    She was still too good at everything even with her being a Palpatine but I no longer have a big issue with it at least we have an explanation

    Same, something about TRoS just made me not care, I just really enjoyed it
  • I liked TROS but how about when the two ladies are kissing and then Rey taps one on the shoulder and says "mind if I cut in?"

    Oh gosh no! That scene at the end really ruined the movie for me.
  • All in all, this still doesn’t really help her case for learning force abilities in seconds in TFA and TLJ, picking up or knowing various skills with little to no prior experience that took other characters (even Luke, the son of the Chosen One) months or years to learn.

    BUT, in the movie I felt like she and Kylo were written far better than before. Kylo felt competent and even frightening at times, seeming like an actual threat. Rey in return actually had moments of vulnerability and character development. She wasn’t just an awesome know-it-all (outside of frying ole Palpatine but I guess the force ghosts helped.)
  • Strogg1980 wrote: »
    she's not even close to a Mary Sue at this point because
    She was manhandled by Snoke, kylo saved her. She lost her duel to Kylo Ren until Leia jumped in. She also was killed beating palpatine. Also her power comes from the fact she's the child of one of the most powerful sith Lords of all time.
    so no, unless your being a sexist, she might be a weak character, but she's not a "Mary Sue".

    Yeah Im sorry but uh...She beat Kylo in TFA with no training? Like ZERO. You can use the excuse he got shot but
    1. He still beat Finn
    2. He got shot on his left arm not his right. He wields his lightsaber with his right.
    3. She lifted all those rocks in TLJ. Once again she shouldn't be able to do this. Look at Luke. Even after some time training with Yoda Luke could only still like 4 or 5 small rocks. Meanwhile Rey lifted like 20 Boulders.
    4. Say all the Jedi live within Rey is a cheap writers excuse to not have to write a good ending. Its LAZY. Why didnt all the Jedi live within Yoda when he fought palps?

    All in All. She is still a Mary Sue. I like her better than before but yeah still a Mary Sue

    Sorry but your wrong. By definition, A "Mary Sue" is a woman who is powerful with no reason other than the fact she's a strong woman. Episode 9 and the final part of 8 totally debunked that. So yeah, she's a poor character but not a Mary Sue, unless your sexist or don't know the definition of what a Mary Sue is.
  • she's not a Mary Sue, she's just a character with no personality who is overpowered and played by an actress who is untalented

    people are confusing a Mary Sue with a dull feminist power fantasy
  • ROMG4
    3482 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    I don't even get what everyone is getting worked up over in this thread

    Rey is a poorly written, retconned, plagiarized, and just all overall W A S T E D Potential character. So much wasted potential

    She is as much of a poorly written Mary Sayian character as Starkiller was in the Force Unleashed games, though at least he had some training

    Still incredibly, incredibly, dumb the stuff that he did (Ugh, those stupid OT levels), but either way, they are just two sides of the same coin. They are both poorly done characters thrown into established lore that can do stuff that has never been seen and probably never will because "reasons." But either way, complaining about it is pointless now; what is done is done. They had three chances, five years to develop the ST characters and depict them. They failed the actors; they failed the fans, they failed the franchise and most importantly

    They failed themselves

    In 2015 I thought we saw the era of new Star Wars there were flaws, there was far too much rushing, but I felt there was heart in it. In 2016 with Rogue One I thought they had nailed it and truly grasped star wars

    In 2017 I felt frustration and complete disappointment. In 2019 I feel barely anything. My feelings on the Sequel Trilogy are as hollow as the trilogy itself, and truly that is the worst thing they could have ever done

    I don't feel positive, angry, irritated, at best, all I have is a sense of solemn acceptance over this whole mess. All I wanted was to see the future of the Star Wars galaxy to see Han, Leia, Lando, Luke, 3po, r2, and Chewbacca on-screen again together. The one thing I wanted, I never got that the ST never even came close to delivering

    In the end, I am left just wondering one question. Was it even worth it?
    Post edited by ROMG4 on
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  • Alex64
    8152 posts Member
    Deus ex machina
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  • would definitely watch a Disney+ series about Rey, discovering new facets to her personality

    Never in a million years
    Yeah, you know who I am...
  • Grievous15 wrote: »
    I liked TROS but how about when the two ladies are kissing and then Rey taps one on the shoulder and says "mind if I cut in?"

    Oh gosh no! That scene at the end really ruined the movie for me.

    I know it is unpopular, but that is the same for me.
    Yeah, you know who I am...
  • Gotta remember she died against palp and ONLY “won” because of all the past jedi. She was effectively killed when she was on the ground, palp knew kylo (skywalker) was the real threat so got rid of him (pit). Kylo survived after getting his force drained, Rey did not. Rey was portrayed as one before this movie. This movie did an amazing job bringing her down while also making her look good. I hated the sequels but this is my second favorite Star Wars hands down.

    I still think Kylo should’ve killed palp WITH Anakin but o well
  • I had a question, if Force powers are inherited, didn't most Jedi not having children work against them? Kenobi should have been getting busy after Revenge of Sith...think of how many Jedi he could have "created"
  • apparently Yoda did, we all know Baby Yoda is his offspring
  • apparently Yoda did, we all know Baby Yoda is his offspring

    I thought that wasn't confirmed or anything that Baby Yoda was Yoda's "offspring"? Though i don't think that force powers are always inherited though, like if one of Ahsoka's parents were force sensitive, then why weren't they a Jedi? So i think it can really happen to anyone, it's like the lottery i guess, you just get lucky and are force sensitive, but who really knows how it all works, sometimes it seems more like the force is inherited....... then in some cases it seems like it isn't, or it's both inherited and some are just chosen maybe.
  • well you have to have midichlorians, seems like those are genetic, that's why Luke and Leia were powerful Jedi
  • apparently Yoda did, we all know Baby Yoda is his offspring

    I don’t think that’s confirmed
    well you have to have midichlorians, seems like those are genetic, that's why Luke and Leia were powerful Jedi

    The force has been s mess and they can’t seem to make up their mind. It’s gone from midiclorians to anyone can just learn it and back again every other way. It’s confusing to me
  • this clears up the midichlorian question:
  • Liz4rD
    1147 posts Member
    "We" are on purpose, it seems, forgetting some facts:

    Luke was a Mary Sue because he was able to destroy the Death Star using the Force. He said he was trained about hitting decoy targets but that was way out of his league at that moment, he clearly used the Force (he was never involved in real combat, never ever before, he had never ever before piloted a powerful x-wing, and he was never ever before used the Force at that level). Luke demonstrated that just focusing during two seconds he was able to deflect the training sphere shots. That took years for others. And in that moment Luke was not Vader's son. He was Anakin's son, and, remember, Anakin and Vader were, IN THAT MOMENT, two different persons. There was no midichlorians then either, so there was no genetic explanation for someone to be so powerful in the Force other than the writer's will, in this case, Lucas wanted Luke to be that powerful. Period.

    All of this were CHANGED when Lucas decided that Vader and Anakin will be the same character. And moreover, 15 years later all of this were again changed to add some 'genetic' stuff to some characters ability to use the Force.

    Oh, and don't forget that 30 years later they decided Anakin to be the result of some Palpatine's plot with some dark side of the Force manipulation on the fetus of Anakin, still inside Shmi's uterus; and therefore, his 'son'.

    ;)

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  • ROMG4
    3482 posts Member
    Luke was a Mary Sue because he was able to destroy the Death Star using the Force. He said he was trained about hitting decoy targets but that was way out of his league at that moment, he clearly used the Force (he was never involved in real combat, never ever before, he had never ever before piloted a powerful x-wing, and he was never ever before used the Force at that level). Luke demonstrated that just focusing during two seconds he was able to deflect the training sphere shots. That took years for others. And in that moment Luke was not Vader's son. He was Anakin's son, and, remember, Anakin and Vader were, IN THAT MOMENT, two different persons. There was no midichlorians then either, so there was no genetic explanation for someone to be so powerful in the Force other than the writer's will, in this case, Lucas wanted Luke to be that powerful. Period.
    source.gif

    Sigh, Your gonna make me have to drag out my old argument posts that debunk this horrendous argument aren't you?
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  • Liz4rD
    1147 posts Member
    Theres no debunk about Luke being powerful just because Lucas wanted that way and Vader and Anakin being two different persons, and no genetic stuff involved in the Force, all of this was the context when ANH was released in theaters.

    Any 'argument' against this is based on things that happened AFTER this and thus, not in the context.
  • Zero personality, no arc, and bad actress with a perfectly blank face.
  • ROMG4
    3482 posts Member
    Liz4rD wrote: »
    Theres no debunk about Luke being powerful just because Lucas wanted that way and Vader and Anakin being two different persons, and no genetic stuff involved in the Force, all of this was the context when ANH was released in theaters.

    Any 'argument' against this is based on things that happened AFTER this and thus, not in the context.

    So essentially your arguing semantics

    The OT and PT were not an established universe with set rules, lore, and made by the hard work of thousands

    You can do things and set rules when your making one's own property as Lucas did. Much harder to get away with that when your making essentially add-on content

    Because you see ANH was its own thing, TFA is not. It's the 7th film coming after two trilogies
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    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
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  • Alex64
    8152 posts Member
    I need to defeat the bad guy give me your energy WOOOAAAAAA PUPIPUPUPI!!! And the bad guy is literally killing himself with his own lighting rays AAAAAWWWWW!!!

    Well this could mean 2 things, 1) She's a Mary Sue or 2) It's just a Deux ex machina element added to the plot.
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