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The Sequel Trilogy Broke Every Promise

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  • bfloo wrote: »
    The characters were all poorly developed stereotypes and forgettable. They played it too safe along the sjw playbook, which many movies are guilty of.

    As opposed to the neckbeard playbook? Naw that is a joke. I just wish your sjw comment was too.
  • ROMG4
    4726 posts Member
    However, from an objective stand point, i think you are being unfair in your judgement. You say the films were total failures in regards to fans and stockholders. Well, for some fans, this is certainly the case.
    It's not that they were just total failures to "certain" fans. Objectively the entire ST's writing process is a colossal trainwreck. It's perhaps the new textbook standard of poor pre-planning, mishandled management, and plagiarism
    because star wars is bigger than it has ever been.
    Disneyland's Galaxy's edge park is empty, attendance is down, merchandise sales have been tanking hard since 2017, audience reception has gotten worse and worse with each installment, solo bombed, and the Witcher smashed the Mandalorian's attendance record (Though to be fair TM was a world record holder until then). The cracks have formed

    Before we digress to much let us just stick to the fans. Can we really believe that disney approached these movies with the plan of pleasing everyone?
    When did any of my posts imply disappointment at it not "fulfilling my checklist" or not pleasing everyone? There's always going to be someone disappointed, just look youtube videos

    All I wanted, all I ever wanted, was the final trilogy of the Saga to have been thoroughly planned, intelligently and creative written, and most importantly. Just be bloody good, it's even more annoying because the ST had potential. It had some interesting ideas and directions it could have taken shape in, but like a lazy student they just went and polarized a wikipedia article with all their potentially good ideas thrown away and forgotten
    The sequels played it safe in the first movie and tfa was well received by both fans and critics alike. It suffered from trying to be to much like the ot to the point of being unoriginal in the overall plot and set pieces.
    And that's another example of JJ's poor direction. The man is a visual creator, he's not a director. He can lay down tons of interesting "Mystery boxes" and visual effects but his stories are paper thin when you get down to it. It's why I call TFA, ANH: The Sugar Straw edition.
    Fast forward to the last jedi and disney gives the go ahead to rian johnson to try new things as they don’t want the series to stagnate. This is a topic of controversy as the movie divided the fan base down the middle. There are criticisms to be had but a large portion of the fanbase just did not like movie because it was not what they wanted in a star wars movie.
    It was less Disney giving the go-ahead and more Kathleen and Rian being best buddies. No one cared about TLJ doing things different and originally in fact it was all the fanbase wanted after TFA. You wanna see an awesome Star Wars story that subverts expectations? Go look at Knights Of The Old Republic 2 a story that is praised for being so unique and divergent

    TLJ's flaw wasn't that it tried to be original, its flaw is that it is an awfully written movie. Because Rian spent more time sledgehammering his themes in, instead of making sure the movie was a good movie
    So, naturally, they decide to go back to what worked for them in tfa and bring in jj abrams to do damage control. This had both positive and negative outcomes. Some which are obvious and others not so much.
    You just agreed with my argument of the ST being poorly planned and thought out
    To the point of you calling the movies garbage and that they did not do the characters justice, well this is, by your own standards, subjective and in no means an actual criticism.
    Finn's backstory of being a Stormtrooper being completely forgotten and the potential internal and external struggles, story threads, and fleshing out of Stormtroopers being tossed aside like a burnt cookie is bad writing
    Rey learning Force Powers, learning how to use a Light-Saber, and barely struggling with the Dark is poor writing. It eliminates any arc and character struggle she is supposed to overcome, in doing so she has become a plot device. That is bad writing
    The OT characters never meeting on screen and having them revert to their original positions in the OT, literal story regression. The whole internal conflicts of the heroes, everything that was accomplished in the OT from the defeat of the Empire, the restoration of the Jedi, the redemption of Vader, the restoration of the Republic literally undone and for W H A T ?
    I will be more than willing to discuss and even argue the merits of this trilogy but not if we cannot even agree what is a valid criticism and what is subjective.
    Oh of course I love debating and this is fun for me
    OOM-9 FOR LEGO STAR WARS
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    Bring OOM-9, Hondo, Bo Katan, Mara Jade, Dengar, IG-88, Greedo, Zam Wessel General Veers, Tarkin and Rogue One, into the game we must. The way this is
    Tell Me. Have You Ever Heard Of The Tragedy Of Darth Coyler The Wise?
    A OOM-9 Thread!
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/152598/the-oom-9-vs-jar-jar-season

    Episode 9's Ending
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6025735/uploads/editor/15/zs312vl0xftg.jpeg
  • bfloo
    17090 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    The characters were all poorly developed stereotypes and forgettable. They played it too safe along the sjw playbook, which many movies are guilty of.

    As opposed to the neckbeard playbook? Naw that is a joke. I just wish your sjw comment was too.

    The examples of this is growing Ghostbusters, Star Wars, Captain Amrvell, it looks like MCU wants to go this way...

    Hollywood in general needs to tone down how they present their agenda placement. It is getting audiences to just walk away.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

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  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    However, from an objective stand point, i think you are being unfair in your judgement. You say the films were total failures in regards to fans and stockholders. Well, for some fans, this is certainly the case.
    It's not that they were just total failures to "certain" fans. Objectively the entire ST's writing process is a colossal trainwreck. It's perhaps the new textbook standard of poor pre-planning, mishandled management, and plagiarism
    because star wars is bigger than it has ever been.
    Disneyland's Galaxy's edge park is empty, attendance is down, merchandise sales have been tanking hard since 2017, audience reception has gotten worse and worse with each installment, solo bombed, and the Witcher smashed the Mandalorian's attendance record (Though to be fair TM was a world record holder until then). The cracks have formed

    Before we digress to much let us just stick to the fans. Can we really believe that disney approached these movies with the plan of pleasing everyone?
    When did any of my posts imply disappointment at it not "fulfilling my checklist" or not pleasing everyone? There's always going to be someone disappointed, just look youtube videos

    All I wanted, all I ever wanted, was the final trilogy of the Saga to have been thoroughly planned, intelligently and creative written, and most importantly. Just be bloody good, it's even more annoying because the ST had potential. It had some interesting ideas and directions it could have taken shape in, but like a lazy student they just went and polarized a wikipedia article with all their potentially good ideas thrown away and forgotten
    The sequels played it safe in the first movie and tfa was well received by both fans and critics alike. It suffered from trying to be to much like the ot to the point of being unoriginal in the overall plot and set pieces.
    And that's another example of JJ's poor direction. The man is a visual creator, he's not a director. He can lay down tons of interesting "Mystery boxes" and visual effects but his stories are paper thin when you get down to it. It's why I call TFA, ANH: The Sugar Straw edition.
    Fast forward to the last jedi and disney gives the go ahead to rian johnson to try new things as they don’t want the series to stagnate. This is a topic of controversy as the movie divided the fan base down the middle. There are criticisms to be had but a large portion of the fanbase just did not like movie because it was not what they wanted in a star wars movie.
    It was less Disney giving the go-ahead and more Kathleen and Rian being best buddies. No one cared about TLJ doing things different and originally in fact it was all the fanbase wanted after TFA. You wanna see an awesome Star Wars story that subverts expectations? Go look at Knights Of The Old Republic 2 a story that is praised for being so unique and divergent

    TLJ's flaw wasn't that it tried to be original, its flaw is that it is an awfully written movie. Because Rian spent more time sledgehammering his themes in, instead of making sure the movie was a good movie
    So, naturally, they decide to go back to what worked for them in tfa and bring in jj abrams to do damage control. This had both positive and negative outcomes. Some which are obvious and others not so much.
    You just agreed with my argument of the ST being poorly planned and thought out
    To the point of you calling the movies garbage and that they did not do the characters justice, well this is, by your own standards, subjective and in no means an actual criticism.
    Finn's backstory of being a Stormtrooper being completely forgotten and the potential internal and external struggles, story threads, and fleshing out of Stormtroopers being tossed aside like a burnt cookie is bad writing
    Rey learning Force Powers, learning how to use a Light-Saber, and barely struggling with the Dark is poor writing. It eliminates any arc and character struggle she is supposed to overcome, in doing so she has become a plot device. That is bad writing
    The OT characters never meeting on screen and having them revert to their original positions in the OT, literal story regression. The whole internal conflicts of the heroes, everything that was accomplished in the OT from the defeat of the Empire, the restoration of the Jedi, the redemption of Vader, the restoration of the Republic literally undone and for W H A T ?
    I will be more than willing to discuss and even argue the merits of this trilogy but not if we cannot even agree what is a valid criticism and what is subjective.
    Oh of course I love debating and this is fun for me

    I actually thought kotor 2 was incredibly weak in regards to story when compared to the first. I may be in the minority with this but it does not matter as a story does not have to please me to be good or bad.

    You spoke of youtube videos and i think this a big part of the problem with modern film critique. Most of what is put out there is pretty trash in regards to criticism. It is just a lot of dog piling and trash talk. You may get one or two actual criticisms out of a long spill of people using their bully pulpit to knock whatever movie down a few pegs and people just eat up the knee **** reaction.

    This is what separates the older films the most. If the internet was around back in the early 80’s we may not have gotten any star wars movies past the first film.

    I am fully aware that hollywood puts out subpar blockbuster flicks as cash grabs. I don’t think the sequels fall into this category.

    I also think they did justice to all the old characters (the main ones) in closing their stories. Han dies in self sacrifice revealing he was who we all thought he was. An outlaw with a big heart. Luke dies a pacifist as that was the lesson he learned from yoda and it was how we was able to turn vader and defeat the empire. Leia was the one that was the most difficult to do because carrie fischer died irl and i felt they did right by her with what they could. She sacrifices herself to save her son and in turn the galaxy. It is actually quite beautiful.
  • ROMG4
    4726 posts Member
    I actually thought kotor 2 was incredibly weak in regards to story when compared to the first.

    tumblr_o4uxv8QkSM1rx35ydo7_250.gifv
    I may be in the minority with this but it does not matter as a story does not have to please me to be good or bad.
    Yes you are correct a story doesn't have to be good for one to like it. But that is and always will be a subjective viewpoint, whether you enjoy it or not does not make up for the story's weak quality. Otherwise all English class work would be As because the student approves of it. There is objective value in everything just as there is subjective, this discussion is not about why we enjoy them but their writing quality
    This is what separates the older films the most. If the internet was around back in the early 80’s we may not have gotten any star wars movies past the first film.
    You mean the movies that set off a revolution in film-making, the sci-fi genre, made box office records, and had the world encapsulated in star wars fever. The same movies that won critic and audience awards?
    I am fully aware that hollywood puts out subpar blockbuster flicks as cash grabs. I don’t think the sequels fall into this category.
    Then tell me how despite all the evidence to the contrary and their own admission. They didn't just rush the whole thing and as such poorly develop the ST
    I also think they did justice to all the old characters (the main ones) in closing their stories. Han dies in self sacrifice revealing he was who we all thought he was. An outlaw with a big heart. Luke dies a pacifist as that was the lesson he learned from yoda and it was how we was able to turn vader and defeat the empire. Leia was the one that was the most difficult to do because carrie fischer died irl and i felt they did right by her with what they could. She sacrifices herself to save her son and in turn the galaxy. It is actually quite beautiful.
    They did an admirable job on Leia but everyone else they totally messed up on. Do you know how depressingly unfulfilling the ROTJ ending is now thanks to the ST having shown the whole crew split up, reverted to old habits, and their accomplishments meant nothing? Yoda didn't teach Luke to be a pacifist and Luke wasn't a pacifist they turned him into a cranky old man who'd kill his own nephew because his nephew was having bad dreams. A Luke that just decided to pack it up and go hide on an island to die and stayed there
    OOM-9 FOR LEGO STAR WARS
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    Bring OOM-9, Hondo, Bo Katan, Mara Jade, Dengar, IG-88, Greedo, Zam Wessel General Veers, Tarkin and Rogue One, into the game we must. The way this is
    Tell Me. Have You Ever Heard Of The Tragedy Of Darth Coyler The Wise?
    A OOM-9 Thread!
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/152598/the-oom-9-vs-jar-jar-season

    Episode 9's Ending
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6025735/uploads/editor/15/zs312vl0xftg.jpeg
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    I actually thought kotor 2 was incredibly weak in regards to story when compared to the first.

    tumblr_o4uxv8QkSM1rx35ydo7_250.gifv
    I may be in the minority with this but it does not matter as a story does not have to please me to be good or bad.
    Yes you are correct a story doesn't have to be good for one to like it. But that is and always will be a subjective viewpoint, whether you enjoy it or not does not make up for the story's weak quality. Otherwise all English class work would be As because the student approves of it. There is objective value in everything just as there is subjective, this discussion is not about why we enjoy them but their writing quality
    This is what separates the older films the most. If the internet was around back in the early 80’s we may not have gotten any star wars movies past the first film.
    You mean the movies that set off a revolution in film-making, the sci-fi genre, made box office records, and had the world encapsulated in star wars fever. The same movies that won critic and audience awards?
    I am fully aware that hollywood puts out subpar blockbuster flicks as cash grabs. I don’t think the sequels fall into this category.
    Then tell me how despite all the evidence to the contrary and their own admission. They didn't just rush the whole thing and as such poorly develop the ST
    I also think they did justice to all the old characters (the main ones) in closing their stories. Han dies in self sacrifice revealing he was who we all thought he was. An outlaw with a big heart. Luke dies a pacifist as that was the lesson he learned from yoda and it was how we was able to turn vader and defeat the empire. Leia was the one that was the most difficult to do because carrie fischer died irl and i felt they did right by her with what they could. She sacrifices herself to save her son and in turn the galaxy. It is actually quite beautiful.
    They did an admirable job on Leia but everyone else they totally messed up on. Do you know how depressingly unfulfilling the ROTJ ending is now thanks to the ST having shown the whole crew split up, reverted to old habits, and their accomplishments meant nothing? Yoda didn't teach Luke to be a pacifist and Luke wasn't a pacifist they turned him into a cranky old man who'd kill his own nephew because his nephew was having bad dreams. A Luke that just decided to pack it up and go hide on an island to die and stayed there

    Luke basically did the same thing as yoda. Yoda went to the most remote spot you could come up with and even then was reluctant to train luke. Yoda had his fill of the galaxy and probably felt just as responsible as did luke.

    As far as the older films starting a revolution that they did. I am in no way trying to take that away from them. I just have to wonder if the same rules applied to them as did the prequels and sequels would they have been the success that they has been? It is totally different to watch a movie then discuss it around the lunch table than going on the forums or youtube to have every negative feeling validated at the push of a button. That is my point with the original trilogy. That movies back then were a simpler form of media that we consumed and word of mouth spread slowly. True, it was a phenomena when it hit theater as people had never seen anything like that before. Now, star wars has to compete with marvel and everything else under the sun all the meantime facing major backlash and review bombs mainly because of what came before.
  • ROMG4
    4726 posts Member
    Luke basically did the same thing as yoda. Yoda went to the most remote spot you could come up with and even then was reluctant to train luke.
    The whole plan Obi-Wan and Yoda created at the end of Episode 3 was that Obi-Wan was to watch over Luke and train him, while Yoda hid as far as he could so he could finish Luke's training

    Yoda went to the most remote spot you could come up with because he was being actively hunted by the Empire, he was the Empire and Palpatine's number #1 target. Yoda was reluctant to tain Luke because Luke was so old, impulsive, and impatient just as Anakin was. There's a huge, massive, distance between Luke and Yoda's motives and goals.
    I just have to wonder if the same rules applied to them as did the prequels and sequels would they have been the success that they has been? It is totally different to watch a movie then discuss it around the lunch table than going on the forums or youtube to have every negative feeling validated at the push of a button.
    I'd argue that personal meetings and discussion with people probably have more impact than that which is online. Do you get cliques and bandwagons, of course. You get that either way but your also forgetting that the internet has the potential to do the opposite and that is spread the positive elements around
    OOM-9 FOR LEGO STAR WARS
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    Bring OOM-9, Hondo, Bo Katan, Mara Jade, Dengar, IG-88, Greedo, Zam Wessel General Veers, Tarkin and Rogue One, into the game we must. The way this is
    Tell Me. Have You Ever Heard Of The Tragedy Of Darth Coyler The Wise?
    A OOM-9 Thread!
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/152598/the-oom-9-vs-jar-jar-season

    Episode 9's Ending
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6025735/uploads/editor/15/zs312vl0xftg.jpeg
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    Luke basically did the same thing as yoda. Yoda went to the most remote spot you could come up with and even then was reluctant to train luke.
    The whole plan Obi-Wan and Yoda created at the end of Episode 3 was that Obi-Wan was to watch over Luke and train him, while Yoda hid as far as he could so he could finish Luke's training

    Yoda went to the most remote spot you could come up with because he was being actively hunted by the Empire, he was the Empire and Palpatine's number #1 target. Yoda was reluctant to tain Luke because Luke was so old, impulsive, and impatient just as Anakin was. There's a huge, massive, distance between Luke and Yoda's motives and goals.
    I just have to wonder if the same rules applied to them as did the prequels and sequels would they have been the success that they has been? It is totally different to watch a movie then discuss it around the lunch table than going on the forums or youtube to have every negative feeling validated at the push of a button.
    I'd argue that personal meetings and discussion with people probably have more impact than that which is online. Do you get cliques and bandwagons, of course. You get that either way but your also forgetting that the internet has the potential to do the opposite and that is spread the positive elements around

    When did yoda come up with this plan? I have watched episode 3 probably five dozen times and it seemed like the plan was for obiwan to look after luke while yoda just dipped out. There was never a discussion of obiwan taking him to see yoda when he was of age or even training him as a jedi. I find this to be pure conjecture.

    And i have a much more cynical view of the internet than you do i am afraid. When i discuss things like star wars or even politics most of the time people remain civil. On the internet it is the complete opposite. Sometimes we can have a good discussion on here but most times it just feels like we are talking to ourselves before it ends in flame wars.
  • ROMG4
    4726 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    When did yoda come up with this plan? I have watched episode 3 probably five dozen times and it seemed like the plan was for obiwan to look after luke while yoda just dipped out. There was never a discussion of obiwan taking him to see yoda when he was of age or even training him as a jedi. I find this to be pure conjecture.
    "Until the time is right, disappear we will" among other things such as his proactive nature in discussing where the skywalkers should belong. Add in EU material from Legends or Canon and yes it was always intentioned and designed for Yoda to train the Skywalkers


    OOM-9 FOR LEGO STAR WARS
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    Bring OOM-9, Hondo, Bo Katan, Mara Jade, Dengar, IG-88, Greedo, Zam Wessel General Veers, Tarkin and Rogue One, into the game we must. The way this is
    Tell Me. Have You Ever Heard Of The Tragedy Of Darth Coyler The Wise?
    A OOM-9 Thread!
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/152598/the-oom-9-vs-jar-jar-season

    Episode 9's Ending
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6025735/uploads/editor/15/zs312vl0xftg.jpeg
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    When did yoda come up with this plan? I have watched episode 3 probably five dozen times and it seemed like the plan was for obiwan to look after luke while yoda just dipped out. There was never a discussion of obiwan taking him to see yoda when he was of age or even training him as a jedi. I find this to be pure conjecture.
    "Until the time is right, disappear we will" among other things such as his proactive nature in discussing where the skywalkers should belong. Add in EU material from Legends or Canon and yes it was always intentioned and designed for Yoda to train the Skywalkers


    Seems a bit of a stretch but yeah it makes sense for head canon. It takes some mental gymnastics and overlooking many other possibilities and approaches they could have done in order to make this “plan” more doable. And it still makes less sense than luke wanting to go in self exile because he was overcome with guilt because of everything he had endured and was responsible for in regards to suffering in the galaxy.
  • ROMG4
    4726 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »

    Seems a bit of a stretch but yeah it makes sense for head canon.

    tskph7f6akty.png

    Now your being willfully obtuse to preserve your head-canon on this matter
    And it still makes less sense than luke wanting to go in self exile because he was overcome with guilt because of everything he had endured and was responsible for in regards to suffering in the galaxy.
    Yoda:
    Lives for 900 years, has seen the golden age of the republic and jedi, everything and everyone he knew was killed by the Sith, he failed to defeat the Emperor and was forced into exile

    Had no loss of faith in that the Light could overcome the Dark and he could redeem the Jedi by training the Skywalkers

    Palpatine: Loses control of his empire, gets betrayed by Vader, is forced into remote section of the Galaxy, His will has never been stronger

    Luke: Almost kills ben, gives up on life to go sit on an island world while he lets Kylo get trained by the Dark Side

    Luke looks pretty sad by comparison, don't even get started on the Obi-Wan comparison it gets even worse
    OOM-9 FOR LEGO STAR WARS
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    Bring OOM-9, Hondo, Bo Katan, Mara Jade, Dengar, IG-88, Greedo, Zam Wessel General Veers, Tarkin and Rogue One, into the game we must. The way this is
    Tell Me. Have You Ever Heard Of The Tragedy Of Darth Coyler The Wise?
    A OOM-9 Thread!
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/152598/the-oom-9-vs-jar-jar-season

    Episode 9's Ending
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6025735/uploads/editor/15/zs312vl0xftg.jpeg
  • Cane_danko
    1628 posts Member
    edited February 29
    ROMG4 wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »

    Seems a bit of a stretch but yeah it makes sense for head canon.

    tskph7f6akty.png

    Now your being willfully obtuse to preserve your head-canon on this matter
    And it still makes less sense than luke wanting to go in self exile because he was overcome with guilt because of everything he had endured and was responsible for in regards to suffering in the galaxy.
    Yoda:
    Lives for 900 years, has seen the golden age of the republic and jedi, everything and everyone he knew was killed by the Sith, he failed to defeat the Emperor and was forced into exile

    Had no loss of faith in that the Light could overcome the Dark and he could redeem the Jedi by training the Skywalkers

    Palpatine: Loses control of his empire, gets betrayed by Vader, is forced into remote section of the Galaxy, His will has never been stronger

    Luke: Almost kills ben, gives up on life to go sit on an island world while he lets Kylo get trained by the Dark Side

    Luke looks pretty sad by comparison, don't even get started on the Obi-Wan comparison it gets even worse

    It just feels to me that you will justify these other things to look over what could easily be justified for luke. Maybe we are both victims of our perspective in this particular instance.

    Edit: on a positive note one thing i think we may agree on is that i do feel finn was an after thought in both tlj and ros. He was the most original character they added and could have been the next han solo if they had of gave his character the same passion as george did for han.
  • ROMG4
    4726 posts Member
    It just feels to me that you will justify these other things to look over what could easily be justified for luke.
    Because that's the point, I could have accepted Luke becoming a recluse and bitter at the Force. As long as it was explained properly, but the entire movie all we get to see of Luke is him being a grumpy dude with nothing else. No exploration of the mysticism of the force, no personal wisdom, no real reasons. He just up and decides to go stay on an island because Kylo destroyed the temple and ran away

    This is supposed to be the same Luke that sped across the galaxy to rescue his friends in ESB, that concotated a scheme to rescue Han, the same Luke that thought Vader could be redeemed after he destroyed alderaan and cut off his hand

    He's just like "Well my Nephew's bad now, Imma head out" Luke under George Lucas would have been devastated to hear about Han's death especially when he learned Kylo was the one that killed him. He would have immediately left the island to put things right once he heard that at the very least. Instead Luke's content to die on the island, not learn anything, not solve existential answers about the force and life

    Just die. Kind of really depressing if it wasn't handled so poorly. It could have been a proper somber storyline with a heroic ending at the end once Luke comes to his senses, but ehh

    He just kinda stays grumpy then he dies
    Edit: on a positive note one thing i think we may agree on is that i do feel finn was an after thought in both tlj and ros. He was the most original character they added and could have been the next han solo if they had of gave his character the same passion as george did for han.
    Poor Phasma, Gwen deserved better
    OOM-9 FOR LEGO STAR WARS
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    Bring OOM-9, Hondo, Bo Katan, Mara Jade, Dengar, IG-88, Greedo, Zam Wessel General Veers, Tarkin and Rogue One, into the game we must. The way this is
    Tell Me. Have You Ever Heard Of The Tragedy Of Darth Coyler The Wise?
    A OOM-9 Thread!
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/152598/the-oom-9-vs-jar-jar-season

    Episode 9's Ending
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  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    It just feels to me that you will justify these other things to look over what could easily be justified for luke.
    Because that's the point, I could have accepted Luke becoming a recluse and bitter at the Force. As long as it was explained properly, but the entire movie all we get to see of Luke is him being a grumpy dude with nothing else. No exploration of the mysticism of the force, no personal wisdom, no real reasons. He just up and decides to go stay on an island because Kylo destroyed the temple and ran away

    This is supposed to be the same Luke that sped across the galaxy to rescue his friends in ESB, that concotated a scheme to rescue Han, the same Luke that thought Vader could be redeemed after he destroyed alderaan and cut off his hand

    He's just like "Well my Nephew's bad now, Imma head out" Luke under George Lucas would have been devastated to hear about Han's death especially when he learned Kylo was the one that killed him. He would have immediately left the island to put things right once he heard that at the very least. Instead Luke's content to die on the island, not learn anything, not solve existential answers about the force and life

    Just die. Kind of really depressing if it wasn't handled so poorly. It could have been a proper somber storyline with a heroic ending at the end once Luke comes to his senses, but ehh

    He just kinda stays grumpy then he dies
    Edit: on a positive note one thing i think we may agree on is that i do feel finn was an after thought in both tlj and ros. He was the most original character they added and could have been the next han solo if they had of gave his character the same passion as george did for han.
    Poor Phasma, Gwen deserved better

    Well, the way you paint the picture it is really awful. That is not how it went down. Sure, his temple being destroyed was what broke the camels back, but this is disregarding every conversation he had with rey regarding the hubris of the jedi. He explicitly states it was the jedi religion and their inability to see past their own beliefs that gave sidious the opportunity to rise as a sith lord. Imagine how he must have felt after attempting to fix all that was wrong with the jedi in his new order, only to find out that he neglected his nephew and missed the opportunity to lead him on the right path, only to have it revealed in the most brutal way possible. He is tempted by the dark side to kill him. He also has these same feelings regarding vader. He hesitates and doesn’t do it. This cost him dearly. Kylo does what he does best and goes on a rampage killing all of luke’s students. At this point, i feel that luke was just tired of all futility of his actions. All the deaths he is responsible for from the ot up to this point must have already taken a toll on him. Then he just lost his faith. It is not far fetched. Sure, the luke of old would have rushed off to save the day. He was impulsive back then. It also was a futile attempt at cloud city. What did he accomplish there? The only thing of real significance that was gained by him rushing off was finding that vader was his father. If he had of listened to yoda he may have stood a better chance and been able to beat him. An older luke would have been tempered with wisdom and restraint. That wisdom would only take him so far as his whole idea of what the jedi should be failed in the most upsetting way possible. When he hears han was killed by kylo he is grieved and it shows. He cut himself off from the force. What was he suppose to do? Just open himself up and become a supernatural bad ****? That would be bad writing if i ever heard it. That would be the expected and most out of character thing for him to do.
  • ROMG4
    4726 posts Member
    Well, the way you paint the picture it is really awful. That is not how it went down. Sure, his temple being destroyed was what broke the camels back, but this is disregarding every conversation he had with rey regarding the hubris of the jedi. He explicitly states it was the jedi religion and their inability to see past their own beliefs that gave sidious the opportunity to rise as a sith lord.
    And he isn't those Jedi, he's the grandmaster now. He gets to look at the entire Jedi history, their rules and code, along with the force ghosts of Obi-Wan and Yoda to guide him when he needs help. There's really no reason he should have been fixiated on the failures of the Jedi Order except in where they show him he needs to reform, act, and better guide his stuff. I'm not saying that it isn't possible he could go this way just that it needed to be better developed and explained than the rushed like minute and a half of him grumpy complaining
    Imagine how he must have felt after attempting to fix all that was wrong with the jedi in his new order, only to find out that he neglected his nephew and missed the opportunity to lead him on the right path, only to have it revealed in the most brutal way possible.
    Could have been impactiveful had we actually seen segments of Luke and Kylo's relationship. As it stands in the film Kylo just looks like a brat and Luke a nincimpoop. Again the problem isn't Luke thinking about it at all, its that he actually ignited his light-saber and was ready to kill him

    That's a very massive leap, a very, very, massive leap. George's Luke would not have done that, if he didn't want to kill Vader after all that he went through he would have made sure Kylo recieved better care.
    When he hears han was killed by kylo he is grieved and it shows.
    He's upset for two scenes and then he's normal again. Rey cares more about Han's death than Luke did
    At this point, i feel that luke was just tired of all futility of his actions. All the deaths he is responsible for from the ot up to this point must have already taken a toll on him. Then he just lost his faith. It is not far fetched.
    Headcanon!
    OOM-9 FOR LEGO STAR WARS
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    Bring OOM-9, Hondo, Bo Katan, Mara Jade, Dengar, IG-88, Greedo, Zam Wessel General Veers, Tarkin and Rogue One, into the game we must. The way this is
    Tell Me. Have You Ever Heard Of The Tragedy Of Darth Coyler The Wise?
    A OOM-9 Thread!
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/152598/the-oom-9-vs-jar-jar-season

    Episode 9's Ending
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6025735/uploads/editor/15/zs312vl0xftg.jpeg
  • ROMG4 wrote: »

    Ah I haven't seen you around the forums in a long while, good to see a familiar face!

    Yes I do believe in a number of areas they were right in cutting off some aspects of the EU. But the problem is they essentially took an entire huge aspect of the franchise that people had loved for decades, and killed it completely. In its place we have an inferior bootleg of the Jaina V. Jaden saga with none of the fantastic world development, storytelling, characters, and lore we got in the original novels. Instead of just taking a surgical approach they threw out all the bathwater in favor of making poor installments in their place

    All they did in the end was just plagerize the OT and the weakest elements of some EU stories. Also when you mention the stories taking place 100 years after the OT, that wouldn't affect an ST in the slightest. They are so far in the future that they might as well not exist, and well yeah you can non-canonize those pretty easily


    Yup! To you too :) Sorry for the late reply, I don't often look in the Off-Topic section.

    I understand that people had investment in the EU stories and characters - I did too, and I think EU material added lots of depth to the lore. But I think they made the best choice. There are rumors that there will be a remake of KOTOR to fit it into the new canon, so I think what they are doing now is drawing inspiration from or remaking things from the EU so they can be added into the new canon and be cohesive. Maybe in the future some Legends material can be introduced into canon again.

    The thing is, EU material can still be enjoyed and included in "headcanon", even if they are technically non-canon. It's a fictional universe after all and canon is basically a made-up idea. With the EU, canon and non-canon material was essentially a matter of opinion anyway.

    The Force Awakens is a Sugar Straw to me, it's got all the appeal and glimmer of Star Wars, but in the end it is ultimately unfulfilling. Not only does it not explain anything, reset the entire struggle and conflict of the past two trilogies rendering them pointless, but its just a shameless copy of ANH. Look at how much was reset in the ST vs. what it introduced

    The movie can't even stand on its own two feet anymore because the mystery hooks it promised to deliver got destroyed or turned out terribly in the next two installments. So the movie is always going to have that taint, even if your a strong believer in each movie standing on its own two feet

    I figured I'd ask before I reply, were the mystery hooks for you Rey's parents and the identity of Snoke?

    I can't even remember any character but Luke (barely) getting a character arc in TLJ that wasn't just a repeat of their TFA journey or brought them anywhere different

    The problem is even if TLJ may have some interesting themes under its surface it weaves them into the plot so poorly that it just doesn't work as a movie. Rian Johnson casually rewrote the laws of the Star Wars universe, based the entire movie on plots that don't make the slightest lick of sense. The amount of insane plot holes, armor, and dumbification of every faction and character in the movie is horrendous

    Ok, this is gonna be in an in-depth thing about character arcs.

    Finn:
    So, I already mentioned a bit of his story arc but I figured I'd do more.

    In The Force Awakens, Finn helps Poe escape from the First Order, not because 'it was the right thing to do', but because he needed a pilot. Throughout the movie, he has one goal - to escape the First Order. He literally tries to just run away when they visit Takodana, and the only thing that stops him is Rey being abducted by Kylo Ren. He lies to the Resistance and convinces them he can help them with taking down Starkiller Base, but the truth is... he doesn't know how. His goal is to rescue his friend, he still doesn't care about the war between the Resistance and the First Order. In the middle of the war, he's basically just looking out for his own interests and trying to save Rey.

    In The Last Jedi, Finn starts there. The first question he asks after waking up is "Where's Rey?". We also see him trying to take the beacon away from the Resistance fleet. He doesn't try to help them, he just wants to escape to make sure that Rey doesn't return. Again, in the middle of a war he's only looking out for his own interests.

    That's when he meets Rose. Rose had heard about him defecting from the First Order, she probably heard of him fighting on Takodana and against Kylo Ren. She imagines him to be a hero of the Resistance, someone fighting for freedom. So when she finds him trying to escape, it shatters her expectations and she sees him as the kind of person he is - he doesn't care about the Resistance, only himself and Rey.

    The story takes them to Canto Bight, which is a symbol of Finn's apathy to the war. Canto Bight is filled with people who, like Finn, are looking out for their own interests in the center of the First Order-Resistance war. Finn immediately likes Canto Bight, this is where he is in his character arc. He initially thinks this is what he wants, but Rose shows him that Canto Bight (and therefore Finn's apathy) has a negative side. Because of the apathy, innocents will suffer and there will be collateral damage (represented by children and the Fathiers). Finn starts to see the truth, and that Canto Bight (and apathy to the war) isn't as good as he initially thought.

    Things happen, and they get thrown in jail. There they meet DJ, who once again is looking out for his own interests in the war. DJ is less of a conceptual metaphor for Finn's apathy to the First Order and Resistance, but a more human one. He has a kinda gray outlook on morality and convinces Finn that you always have to look out for yourself. After letting them escape, Finn and Rose take the Fathiers and cause havoc to Canto Bight (therefore damaging the symbol of Finn's apathy to the war).

    After they sneak on to the Supremacy and captured, DJ betrays Finn, Rose and the Resistance, literally because he doesn't care about anyone but himself and betrays them for the First Order to protect his own interests. The Resistance suffers losses because of this, reinforcing the idea that looking out for only your own interests will always have collateral damage and consequences. For Finn, it's a combination of all of the above that changes his mind, and after defeating Phasma (the symbol of the oppression he felt under the First Order), his line of "Rebel scum" cements the idea that he no longer only wants to protect himself and his friend, but is a fighter for the Resistance - and matches Rose's expectations. He has transformed essentially from someone who was selfish and generally didn't care about anyone but himself and Rey, to someone who wanted to fight for the Resistance. He now has a cause, basically.

    After crashing on Crait, Finn and Rose join the Resistance on the ski speeders to take on the First Order to try and destroy their battering ram canon. Finn now supporting the Resistance again is involved. Before, he would have probably run from the battle but is now willing to stand and fight for what he believes in. But he takes this too far, and is willing to give his own life to fight the First Order for something that he doesn't know would work. This isn't what Rose wanted - she wanted him to fight for a cause, but not to give his life unnecessarily. It was Finn basically taking things too far. She crashes her speeder into his so he doesn't kill himself, and then tells him "That's how we're gonna win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love", essentially meaning "Now you have a cause, don't just waste your life"... though the line could have been written better for sure. Anyway, that's Finn's arc over.


    Poe:
    Poe starts The Last Jedi where he kinda was in The Force Awakens, an over-confident ace pilot. At the beginning of the movie, it's his role to keep the First Order busy while the Resistance evacuates their base, and he does that by basically... taking a huge risk? And after he takes that risk, he disobeys orders and takes down a First Order Dreadnought at the expense of fighters and the entire Resistance bombing fleet. It was a poorly considered, head-on attack against an enemy who had them outnumbered and outgunned, and it was only going to end one way. But Poe took the risk, he was overconfident and he wanted to be a hero... and it didn't pay off. It cost lives and weakened the Resistance.

    Leia demotes him, and tells him that he was wrong. After the First Order destroys part of the Resistance ship and kills the majority of the Resistance leadership, Admiral Holdo takes over while Leia is recovering. Holdo, like Leia, disapproves of Poe's attitude. They are caught in a bad situation and someone who acts before he thinks is the last thing the Resistance would need. But to Holdo, the First Order had just tracked them through hyperspace - something that wasn't thought possible. Logically, she would be looking for a spy or something similar, someone who would have revealed their location to the First Order (just like Leia's beacon), and she naturally wouldn't trust someone who had just been demoted by the former Resistance leader for causing the deaths of pilots and destruction of ships. Even when Rose and Finn realize how the First Order tracked them and make plans of their own, they as a collective decide not to tell Holdo, the one person who needed to know. Again, acting before thinking. In Poe's arc, Finn and Rose represent where Poe is coming from, irresponsibility (seen with how they parked their shuttle at Canto Bight and a few other examples). They encourage him to risk lives on pure chance and act without thinking whereas what Poe needs to do is to learn how to be a team player.

    Frustrated with Holdo, Poe mutinies and this is the 'climax' of his character arc. He takes matters into his own hands because... well, he isn't behaving like a leader. He's acting without thinking. Leia, the symbol of what Poe should aspire to be, stuns him and on the journey to Crait, explains the point: Holdo was thinking. She didn't care about how things would seem. It wasn't her goal to be a hero, it was her goal to make sure the Resistance survived. And, due to Finn, Poe and Rose's plan failing, she ultimately is forced to give her life - giving Poe's mistakes another cost, but one he decides to learn from.

    On the planet Crait, Poe is placed in another situation that mirrors the problem at the beginning of the movie. A head-on attack using the ski speeders against an enemy that has them out-gunned. Though this time, he sees the futility and has learned how to lead properly. He tries to convince Finn (a symbol of irresponsibility in his arc) to turn back, but he refuses. A while later, another decision: he sees Luke facing the First Order, and once again Finn recommends fighting. But Poe has grown, become more leadership material and considers the situation. He realizes what Luke is doing, and focuses on the survival of the Resistance, not appearing like a hero. To confirm his arc is complete, Leia defers command to him, and he officially takes command in The Rise of Skywalker after becoming a more responsible leader, and a better person.


    Rey:
    Rey's story arc in The Last Jedi... is a little different and harder to spot than the others. I'd argue that her arc is about becoming emotionally independent. In a sense, she isn't an emotionally independent person at the beginning of the movie. I'd say Kylo especially tries to use that against her. He tries to make her feel worthless to manipulate her and convince her to join him, and her story is about having the emotional independence that she doesn't ultimately need him, or anyone.

    The thing is, a character not being given a strict arc is perfectly okay, if their story is about affecting other people or the world around them... and that is definitely true in the case of Rey.

    Rey, Snoke, Luke and Kylo are all kinda involved in a moral dilemma. Snoke and Kylo on the dark side, and Rey and Luke on the light. For most of the movie, Kylo and Luke agree on one thing: the Jedi and the Sith should end. Rey and Snoke are on the other side, they think the established morality groups of Star Wars should exist. Rey convinces Luke to... accept his legend? Accept his failures? I don't need to explain Luke's story arc because you already know his, but Rey in The Last Jedi is a supporting character in Luke's story arc and kind of an antagonist in Kylo's.

    There also seems to be some doubt whether Rey will ultimately stay with the light side or fall to the dark side. That's a thing. There are definitely occasions in TLJ where she uses the dark side.

    Anyway


    Kylo:
    In The Force Awakens, Kylo Ren essentially idolizes Darth Vader. Rey even mentions that he's afraid he will never be as strong as him. He essentially idolizes the past, and that's reflected in his helmet. He wears a helmet because it invokes the image of Vader. He wants to be like him. And Snoke, his teacher, wants him to be like him.

    In The Last Jedi, Kylo's story arc kinda focuses on the theme of 'masters failing their students' - something that has some relevance to Darth Vader too I guess. But he begins the movie being criticized by Snoke for his failure to defeat Rey in The Force Awakens, despite the fact he was injured at the time and unbalanced in the force after killing his father. As a teacher, Snoke has failed him. He wanted him to be a new Vader, completely ignoring that he is his own person. Rather than teaching him the value of failure like a good teacher (Hm. Failure. Almost seems like a theme spanning multiple character arcs... :P ), Snoke rebuked him and was only really using him for his power.

    After trying to stand up for himself against a master he believed was unjust, he realizes that Snoke - a symbol of the past - is wrong, and smashes his helmet (his connection to Vader) in anger. Both the Jedi and the Sith(ish) have failed him, and he wants to burn everything down and start anew. He had essentially given up trying to be like Vader, and instead wanted to kinda shed the morality of the past. He tries to convince Rey that this is the right path, explaining how Luke had failed him, but was ultimately unsuccessful.

    His story arc concludes as he fools Snoke into believing he was going to strike down Rey, and instead kills him, claiming the title of Supreme Leader for himself. At the end of The Last Jedi, Kylo is done living as a student to masters that have failed him, and done idolizing the past.

    Kylo's arc kinda intersects with Luke's (for Luke, he's a symbol of his own failure and a reason why the Jedi have to end) and with Rey's (convincing her to join him by making her feel worthless). Add that into the general indecision about his commitment to both the dark side and the light and yup, that's Kylo in TLJ.

    I think that's all I can think of right now. But still, character arcs and things :)

    You have written a far better movie with just this snippet

    Oops... my bad.

    To be honest, I have been tempted to write some fanfiction, like a rewrite of the sequel trilogy... keeping everything largely the same as much as possible, but also improving the consistency and also without mentioning Rey's parents in relation to the plot in the slightest :P
    "The question," she replied, "Is not whether you will love, hurt, dream, and die. It is what you will love, why you will hurt, when you will dream, and how you will die. This is your choice. You cannot pick the destination, only the path." - Oathbringer.
  • bfloo wrote: »
    The characters were all poorly developed stereotypes and forgettable. They played it too safe along the sjw playbook, which many movies are guilty of.

    At one point in my life, even only a few years ago, I would have probably just ignored this, because everyone is entitled to their opinion. But my time on the internet has taught me something: many people using the same phrases and terms as you in your last few comments are only really repeating what others have said on the internet (usually YouTube, in my experience), and expect people to either listen to them without question because they agree or to react badly and I guess similarly to the original post but never really confront the ideas behind them because they disagree.

    But me... eh. I guess I've noticed things and decided not to do as others do. I enjoy asking people questions, especially when they're difficult to answer and definitely when I think someone is wrong.

    Because I think you're wrong about the characters in the sequel trilogy, and also about Captain Marvel (though I've never seen Ghostbusters... like I've only ever seen a little part of Ghostbusters 2 and didn't enjoy it and I've never seen any other movies in the entire franchise, including the newer movie), I'd like you to explain why you feel that way. You said "They played it too safe along the sjw playbook" and "The examples of this is growing Ghostbusters, Star Wars, Captain Amrvell, it looks like MCU wants to go this way... Hollywood in general needs to tone down how they present their agenda placement. It is getting audiences to just walk away" as if they were facts, but I think it would be nice to know a little more in-detail about the opinions behind them. I, personally, think for whatever reason you just didn't enjoy those movies... maybe the characters didn't resonate with you or you didn't enjoy the plot, but I think you're assigning a political value to them based on your own thoughts, not necessarily the actual content of the movies.

    Given the terms you've used so far are a little politically charged, I don't think this thread or the forum in general is the right place for the conversation. If you'd like, you could send me a PM explaining why you feel the way you do about those movies. I think it would be interesting to know :) I enjoy them, personally, but I guess art is always subjective and things can be interpreted in multiple different ways.
    "The question," she replied, "Is not whether you will love, hurt, dream, and die. It is what you will love, why you will hurt, when you will dream, and how you will die. This is your choice. You cannot pick the destination, only the path." - Oathbringer.
  • LaurenXIV wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    The characters were all poorly developed stereotypes and forgettable. They played it too safe along the sjw playbook, which many movies are guilty of.

    At one point in my life, even only a few years ago, I would have probably just ignored this, because everyone is entitled to their opinion. But my time on the internet has taught me something: many people using the same phrases and terms as you in your last few comments are only really repeating what others have said on the internet (usually YouTube, in my experience), and expect people to either listen to them without question because they agree or to react badly and I guess similarly to the original post but never really confront the ideas behind them because they disagree.

    But me... eh. I guess I've noticed things and decided not to do as others do. I enjoy asking people questions, especially when they're difficult to answer and definitely when I think someone is wrong.

    Because I think you're wrong about the characters in the sequel trilogy, and also about Captain Marvel (though I've never seen Ghostbusters... like I've only ever seen a little part of Ghostbusters 2 and didn't enjoy it and I've never seen any other movies in the entire franchise, including the newer movie), I'd like you to explain why you feel that way. You said "They played it too safe along the sjw playbook" and "The examples of this is growing Ghostbusters, Star Wars, Captain Amrvell, it looks like MCU wants to go this way... Hollywood in general needs to tone down how they present their agenda placement. It is getting audiences to just walk away" as if they were facts, but I think it would be nice to know a little more in-detail about the opinions behind them. I, personally, think for whatever reason you just didn't enjoy those movies... maybe the characters didn't resonate with you or you didn't enjoy the plot, but I think you're assigning a political value to them based on your own thoughts, not necessarily the actual content of the movies.

    Given the terms you've used so far are a little politically charged, I don't think this thread or the forum in general is the right place for the conversation. If you'd like, you could send me a PM explaining why you feel the way you do about those movies. I think it would be interesting to know :) I enjoy them, personally, but I guess art is always subjective and things can be interpreted in multiple different ways.

    The Ghostbusters movie was essentially the old ghostbusters movie but way worse and with women only. It was completely unneeded and no one asked for it. Star Wars shoves this in your face. Like Holdo and Rose are just awful characters that felt like they were thrown in for the sake of having more women. Captain Marvael was a good movie can't say much about it. Had a female lead with a female friend. The MCUs is the most blatant one I can think of off the top of my head. In Avengers (Endgame? Could have been Infinity War) There is a shot of all the women heros on the battlefield. No men at all. This moment feels so incredibly forced. There is hundreds of better ways to do this. Show women in the crowd fighting with the men. Show a woman saving a male heros life. Its not force and it looks nice and keeps the audince in the movie. Showing the panoramic shot of all the woman heros took me out of the movie.
    Baby Yoda is the absolute greatest character Disney has created.

    Baby Yoda is love, Baby Yoda is life.

    OOM-9 For Battlefront 2


  • LaurenXIV wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    The characters were all poorly developed stereotypes and forgettable. They played it too safe along the sjw playbook, which many movies are guilty of.

    At one point in my life, even only a few years ago, I would have probably just ignored this, because everyone is entitled to their opinion. But my time on the internet has taught me something: many people using the same phrases and terms as you in your last few comments are only really repeating what others have said on the internet (usually YouTube, in my experience), and expect people to either listen to them without question because they agree or to react badly and I guess similarly to the original post but never really confront the ideas behind them because they disagree.

    But me... eh. I guess I've noticed things and decided not to do as others do. I enjoy asking people questions, especially when they're difficult to answer and definitely when I think someone is wrong.

    Because I think you're wrong about the characters in the sequel trilogy, and also about Captain Marvel (though I've never seen Ghostbusters... like I've only ever seen a little part of Ghostbusters 2 and didn't enjoy it and I've never seen any other movies in the entire franchise, including the newer movie), I'd like you to explain why you feel that way. You said "They played it too safe along the sjw playbook" and "The examples of this is growing Ghostbusters, Star Wars, Captain Amrvell, it looks like MCU wants to go this way... Hollywood in general needs to tone down how they present their agenda placement. It is getting audiences to just walk away" as if they were facts, but I think it would be nice to know a little more in-detail about the opinions behind them. I, personally, think for whatever reason you just didn't enjoy those movies... maybe the characters didn't resonate with you or you didn't enjoy the plot, but I think you're assigning a political value to them based on your own thoughts, not necessarily the actual content of the movies.

    Given the terms you've used so far are a little politically charged, I don't think this thread or the forum in general is the right place for the conversation. If you'd like, you could send me a PM explaining why you feel the way you do about those movies. I think it would be interesting to know :) I enjoy them, personally, but I guess art is always subjective and things can be interpreted in multiple different ways.

    The Ghostbusters movie was essentially the old ghostbusters movie but way worse and with women only. It was completely unneeded and no one asked for it. Star Wars shoves this in your face. Like Holdo and Rose are just awful characters that felt like they were thrown in for the sake of having more women. Captain Marvael was a good movie can't say much about it. Had a female lead with a female friend. The MCUs is the most blatant one I can think of off the top of my head. In Avengers (Endgame? Could have been Infinity War) There is a shot of all the women heros on the battlefield. No men at all. This moment feels so incredibly forced. There is hundreds of better ways to do this. Show women in the crowd fighting with the men. Show a woman saving a male heros life. Its not force and it looks nice and keeps the audince in the movie. Showing the panoramic shot of all the woman heros took me out of the movie.

    Ghostbusters sucked not because of the women. It sucked for a number of other reasons and it was in no way like the original except that it took a few brand things like the clothing and what nots. I could write an essay about that movie but it isn’t worth it. The fact that people get uppity about the women says more about them than it does about that movie. Avengers endgame having a shot with the women is so brief that is almost goes unnoticed. But the youtube anti sjw crowd has to blow these things out of proportion so they can force feed us their own personal agenda which sadly too many people smoke it up like crack in the 80s.
  • LaurenXIV wrote: »
    ROMG4 wrote: »

    Ah I haven't seen you around the forums in a long while, good to see a familiar face!

    Yes I do believe in a number of areas they were right in cutting off some aspects of the EU. But the problem is they essentially took an entire huge aspect of the franchise that people had loved for decades, and killed it completely. In its place we have an inferior bootleg of the Jaina V. Jaden saga with none of the fantastic world development, storytelling, characters, and lore we got in the original novels. Instead of just taking a surgical approach they threw out all the bathwater in favor of making poor installments in their place

    All they did in the end was just plagerize the OT and the weakest elements of some EU stories. Also when you mention the stories taking place 100 years after the OT, that wouldn't affect an ST in the slightest. They are so far in the future that they might as well not exist, and well yeah you can non-canonize those pretty easily


    Yup! To you too :) Sorry for the late reply, I don't often look in the Off-Topic section.

    I understand that people had investment in the EU stories and characters - I did too, and I think EU material added lots of depth to the lore. But I think they made the best choice. There are rumors that there will be a remake of KOTOR to fit it into the new canon, so I think what they are doing now is drawing inspiration from or remaking things from the EU so they can be added into the new canon and be cohesive. Maybe in the future some Legends material can be introduced into canon again.

    The thing is, EU material can still be enjoyed and included in "headcanon", even if they are technically non-canon. It's a fictional universe after all and canon is basically a made-up idea. With the EU, canon and non-canon material was essentially a matter of opinion anyway.

    The Force Awakens is a Sugar Straw to me, it's got all the appeal and glimmer of Star Wars, but in the end it is ultimately unfulfilling. Not only does it not explain anything, reset the entire struggle and conflict of the past two trilogies rendering them pointless, but its just a shameless copy of ANH. Look at how much was reset in the ST vs. what it introduced

    The movie can't even stand on its own two feet anymore because the mystery hooks it promised to deliver got destroyed or turned out terribly in the next two installments. So the movie is always going to have that taint, even if your a strong believer in each movie standing on its own two feet

    I figured I'd ask before I reply, were the mystery hooks for you Rey's parents and the identity of Snoke?

    I can't even remember any character but Luke (barely) getting a character arc in TLJ that wasn't just a repeat of their TFA journey or brought them anywhere different

    The problem is even if TLJ may have some interesting themes under its surface it weaves them into the plot so poorly that it just doesn't work as a movie. Rian Johnson casually rewrote the laws of the Star Wars universe, based the entire movie on plots that don't make the slightest lick of sense. The amount of insane plot holes, armor, and dumbification of every faction and character in the movie is horrendous

    Ok, this is gonna be in an in-depth thing about character arcs.

    Finn:
    So, I already mentioned a bit of his story arc but I figured I'd do more.

    In The Force Awakens, Finn helps Poe escape from the First Order, not because 'it was the right thing to do', but because he needed a pilot. Throughout the movie, he has one goal - to escape the First Order. He literally tries to just run away when they visit Takodana, and the only thing that stops him is Rey being abducted by Kylo Ren. He lies to the Resistance and convinces them he can help them with taking down Starkiller Base, but the truth is... he doesn't know how. His goal is to rescue his friend, he still doesn't care about the war between the Resistance and the First Order. In the middle of the war, he's basically just looking out for his own interests and trying to save Rey.

    In The Last Jedi, Finn starts there. The first question he asks after waking up is "Where's Rey?". We also see him trying to take the beacon away from the Resistance fleet. He doesn't try to help them, he just wants to escape to make sure that Rey doesn't return. Again, in the middle of a war he's only looking out for his own interests.

    That's when he meets Rose. Rose had heard about him defecting from the First Order, she probably heard of him fighting on Takodana and against Kylo Ren. She imagines him to be a hero of the Resistance, someone fighting for freedom. So when she finds him trying to escape, it shatters her expectations and she sees him as the kind of person he is - he doesn't care about the Resistance, only himself and Rey.

    The story takes them to Canto Bight, which is a symbol of Finn's apathy to the war. Canto Bight is filled with people who, like Finn, are looking out for their own interests in the center of the First Order-Resistance war. Finn immediately likes Canto Bight, this is where he is in his character arc. He initially thinks this is what he wants, but Rose shows him that Canto Bight (and therefore Finn's apathy) has a negative side. Because of the apathy, innocents will suffer and there will be collateral damage (represented by children and the Fathiers). Finn starts to see the truth, and that Canto Bight (and apathy to the war) isn't as good as he initially thought.

    Things happen, and they get thrown in jail. There they meet DJ, who once again is looking out for his own interests in the war. DJ is less of a conceptual metaphor for Finn's apathy to the First Order and Resistance, but a more human one. He has a kinda gray outlook on morality and convinces Finn that you always have to look out for yourself. After letting them escape, Finn and Rose take the Fathiers and cause havoc to Canto Bight (therefore damaging the symbol of Finn's apathy to the war).

    After they sneak on to the Supremacy and captured, DJ betrays Finn, Rose and the Resistance, literally because he doesn't care about anyone but himself and betrays them for the First Order to protect his own interests. The Resistance suffers losses because of this, reinforcing the idea that looking out for only your own interests will always have collateral damage and consequences. For Finn, it's a combination of all of the above that changes his mind, and after defeating Phasma (the symbol of the oppression he felt under the First Order), his line of "Rebel scum" cements the idea that he no longer only wants to protect himself and his friend, but is a fighter for the Resistance - and matches Rose's expectations. He has transformed essentially from someone who was selfish and generally didn't care about anyone but himself and Rey, to someone who wanted to fight for the Resistance. He now has a cause, basically.

    After crashing on Crait, Finn and Rose join the Resistance on the ski speeders to take on the First Order to try and destroy their battering ram canon. Finn now supporting the Resistance again is involved. Before, he would have probably run from the battle but is now willing to stand and fight for what he believes in. But he takes this too far, and is willing to give his own life to fight the First Order for something that he doesn't know would work. This isn't what Rose wanted - she wanted him to fight for a cause, but not to give his life unnecessarily. It was Finn basically taking things too far. She crashes her speeder into his so he doesn't kill himself, and then tells him "That's how we're gonna win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love", essentially meaning "Now you have a cause, don't just waste your life"... though the line could have been written better for sure. Anyway, that's Finn's arc over.


    Poe:
    Poe starts The Last Jedi where he kinda was in The Force Awakens, an over-confident ace pilot. At the beginning of the movie, it's his role to keep the First Order busy while the Resistance evacuates their base, and he does that by basically... taking a huge risk? And after he takes that risk, he disobeys orders and takes down a First Order Dreadnought at the expense of fighters and the entire Resistance bombing fleet. It was a poorly considered, head-on attack against an enemy who had them outnumbered and outgunned, and it was only going to end one way. But Poe took the risk, he was overconfident and he wanted to be a hero... and it didn't pay off. It cost lives and weakened the Resistance.

    Leia demotes him, and tells him that he was wrong. After the First Order destroys part of the Resistance ship and kills the majority of the Resistance leadership, Admiral Holdo takes over while Leia is recovering. Holdo, like Leia, disapproves of Poe's attitude. They are caught in a bad situation and someone who acts before he thinks is the last thing the Resistance would need. But to Holdo, the First Order had just tracked them through hyperspace - something that wasn't thought possible. Logically, she would be looking for a spy or something similar, someone who would have revealed their location to the First Order (just like Leia's beacon), and she naturally wouldn't trust someone who had just been demoted by the former Resistance leader for causing the deaths of pilots and destruction of ships. Even when Rose and Finn realize how the First Order tracked them and make plans of their own, they as a collective decide not to tell Holdo, the one person who needed to know. Again, acting before thinking. In Poe's arc, Finn and Rose represent where Poe is coming from, irresponsibility (seen with how they parked their shuttle at Canto Bight and a few other examples). They encourage him to risk lives on pure chance and act without thinking whereas what Poe needs to do is to learn how to be a team player.

    Frustrated with Holdo, Poe mutinies and this is the 'climax' of his character arc. He takes matters into his own hands because... well, he isn't behaving like a leader. He's acting without thinking. Leia, the symbol of what Poe should aspire to be, stuns him and on the journey to Crait, explains the point: Holdo was thinking. She didn't care about how things would seem. It wasn't her goal to be a hero, it was her goal to make sure the Resistance survived. And, due to Finn, Poe and Rose's plan failing, she ultimately is forced to give her life - giving Poe's mistakes another cost, but one he decides to learn from.

    On the planet Crait, Poe is placed in another situation that mirrors the problem at the beginning of the movie. A head-on attack using the ski speeders against an enemy that has them out-gunned. Though this time, he sees the futility and has learned how to lead properly. He tries to convince Finn (a symbol of irresponsibility in his arc) to turn back, but he refuses. A while later, another decision: he sees Luke facing the First Order, and once again Finn recommends fighting. But Poe has grown, become more leadership material and considers the situation. He realizes what Luke is doing, and focuses on the survival of the Resistance, not appearing like a hero. To confirm his arc is complete, Leia defers command to him, and he officially takes command in The Rise of Skywalker after becoming a more responsible leader, and a better person.


    Rey:
    Rey's story arc in The Last Jedi... is a little different and harder to spot than the others. I'd argue that her arc is about becoming emotionally independent. In a sense, she isn't an emotionally independent person at the beginning of the movie. I'd say Kylo especially tries to use that against her. He tries to make her feel worthless to manipulate her and convince her to join him, and her story is about having the emotional independence that she doesn't ultimately need him, or anyone.

    The thing is, a character not being given a strict arc is perfectly okay, if their story is about affecting other people or the world around them... and that is definitely true in the case of Rey.

    Rey, Snoke, Luke and Kylo are all kinda involved in a moral dilemma. Snoke and Kylo on the dark side, and Rey and Luke on the light. For most of the movie, Kylo and Luke agree on one thing: the Jedi and the Sith should end. Rey and Snoke are on the other side, they think the established morality groups of Star Wars should exist. Rey convinces Luke to... accept his legend? Accept his failures? I don't need to explain Luke's story arc because you already know his, but Rey in The Last Jedi is a supporting character in Luke's story arc and kind of an antagonist in Kylo's.

    There also seems to be some doubt whether Rey will ultimately stay with the light side or fall to the dark side. That's a thing. There are definitely occasions in TLJ where she uses the dark side.

    Anyway


    Kylo:
    In The Force Awakens, Kylo Ren essentially idolizes Darth Vader. Rey even mentions that he's afraid he will never be as strong as him. He essentially idolizes the past, and that's reflected in his helmet. He wears a helmet because it invokes the image of Vader. He wants to be like him. And Snoke, his teacher, wants him to be like him.

    In The Last Jedi, Kylo's story arc kinda focuses on the theme of 'masters failing their students' - something that has some relevance to Darth Vader too I guess. But he begins the movie being criticized by Snoke for his failure to defeat Rey in The Force Awakens, despite the fact he was injured at the time and unbalanced in the force after killing his father. As a teacher, Snoke has failed him. He wanted him to be a new Vader, completely ignoring that he is his own person. Rather than teaching him the value of failure like a good teacher (Hm. Failure. Almost seems like a theme spanning multiple character arcs... :P ), Snoke rebuked him and was only really using him for his power.

    After trying to stand up for himself against a master he believed was unjust, he realizes that Snoke - a symbol of the past - is wrong, and smashes his helmet (his connection to Vader) in anger. Both the Jedi and the Sith(ish) have failed him, and he wants to burn everything down and start anew. He had essentially given up trying to be like Vader, and instead wanted to kinda shed the morality of the past. He tries to convince Rey that this is the right path, explaining how Luke had failed him, but was ultimately unsuccessful.

    His story arc concludes as he fools Snoke into believing he was going to strike down Rey, and instead kills him, claiming the title of Supreme Leader for himself. At the end of The Last Jedi, Kylo is done living as a student to masters that have failed him, and done idolizing the past.

    Kylo's arc kinda intersects with Luke's (for Luke, he's a symbol of his own failure and a reason why the Jedi have to end) and with Rey's (convincing her to join him by making her feel worthless). Add that into the general indecision about his commitment to both the dark side and the light and yup, that's Kylo in TLJ.

    I think that's all I can think of right now. But still, character arcs and things :)

    You have written a far better movie with just this snippet

    Oops... my bad.

    To be honest, I have been tempted to write some fanfiction, like a rewrite of the sequel trilogy... keeping everything largely the same as much as possible, but also improving the consistency and also without mentioning Rey's parents in relation to the plot in the slightest :P

    First let me address the last comment ROMG4 made. "You made a better movie in that snippet you wrote" Thats legit the biggest problem I have. The ST makes so incredibly stupid decisions that if they had used their brains they would have realized "Okay wait now this doesn't really make sense" or "This doesn't work. It needs to be changed"

    Now onto the character arcs. Finns arc is by far the best for me but is utterly ruined by Rose. If Finn had actually sacrificed himself in TLJ I would have actually liked the movie. Instead Rose The garbage can of the ST ruins that moment and that movie. I was litearlly sitting in the theater and when Finn was heading for the canon I thought to my self "Wow Disney actually has some balls. Finns gonna go out in a awesome way and finish his arc" but in the back of my head Im sitting there thinking "This stupid movie is full of dumb twist, Where's the stupid twist" Then when Rose hits him I wasn't that surprised.

    Poe:
    Poe is a dumb character and he serves literally no purpose in the grand scheme of things. Hes clearly the dumbest leader ever if he thought that taking 30 bombers and destroying one ship was a good idea when there was like 5 other ships right there. That whole attack was stupid in the first place. Second the whole thing with Holdo and the Mutnuy could have been completely avoid if Holdo had just taken him aside and told him the goddamn plan. It literally would have solved so much. Instead Holdo has to act like a cool kid and just keep the plan to herself. I think the reason why the writers did this was to push a SJW agenda. Now let me explain. The reason why I think this is because it makes no sense for Holdo to keep Poe in the dark. Its literally braindead writing. But at the end it makes the strong cool male character look dumb and makes the woman look super smart and cool. Now I would have a problem with this except the way they did it was so lazy and braindead that it takes you out of the movie. Poe to me as I said is a useless character and does nothing for me.

    Rey: The biggest Mary Sue I have ever seen in my life. Shes a scavenger on Jakku with no combat training at all. She finds BB-8 and Finn and helps them out to leave Jakku because...? Why not. Jakku looks like crap and no one would want to live there. Shes eating nasty food and not that much of it anyway. With Luke on tatooine it was different. Luke was bored with his life and wanted to leave his home and do something more with him. He wanted to be a part of something great than himself. That makes his character very relatable in ANH. I cannot related to Rey at all in TFA. Next at the end of TFA her and Finn stand there while Kylo gets shot. Why. The dude just killed one of your friends and all you do is sit on a ledge and cry? Now Here is where the movie could have redeemed itself. When Kylo Ren attempts to force grab Lukes old light saber and it whizzes past him the person who should have caught it should have been Luke. Luke should have sensed that his Daughter (Who should be Rey tbh) is in trouble and as we know from ESB Luke has to go help her. Then Luke easily disarms a wounded Kylo but Kylo has so much hate that he unleashes a Sith foce power (Could be something like lightning or something new but not too crazy) That's when the gorge should have opened up. Then once Luke saved Rey he could have been reluctent to train her for some reason (Not going to go into more detail you get the gist) Rey beating Kylo is easily the dumbest thing ever. Kylo was a trained Sith. He had been trained by Snoke and Luke. He was using the Darkside and the Sith feed off of pain, anger and hate. His pain should have made him stronger.

    Part 2 will come later if you respond to part 1.
    Baby Yoda is the absolute greatest character Disney has created.

    Baby Yoda is love, Baby Yoda is life.

    OOM-9 For Battlefront 2


  • The Ghostbusters movie was essentially the old ghostbusters movie but way worse and with women only. It was completely unneeded and no one asked for it. Star Wars shoves this in your face. Like Holdo and Rose are just awful characters that felt like they were thrown in for the sake of having more women. Captain Marvael was a good movie can't say much about it. Had a female lead with a female friend. The MCUs is the most blatant one I can think of off the top of my head. In Avengers (Endgame? Could have been Infinity War) There is a shot of all the women heros on the battlefield. No men at all. This moment feels so incredibly forced. There is hundreds of better ways to do this. Show women in the crowd fighting with the men. Show a woman saving a male heros life. Its not force and it looks nice and keeps the audince in the movie. Showing the panoramic shot of all the woman heros took me out of the movie.

    I think I'll send you a PM about this, it might take some time to type but thank you for your input in the meantime :)
    First let me address the last comment ROMG4 made. "You made a better movie in that snippet you wrote" Thats legit the biggest problem I have. The ST makes so incredibly stupid decisions that if they had used their brains they would have realized "Okay wait now this doesn't really make sense" or "This doesn't work. It needs to be changed"

    Now onto the character arcs. Finns arc is by far the best for me but is utterly ruined by Rose. If Finn had actually sacrificed himself in TLJ I would have actually liked the movie. Instead Rose The garbage can of the ST ruins that moment and that movie. I was litearlly sitting in the theater and when Finn was heading for the canon I thought to my self "Wow Disney actually has some balls. Finns gonna go out in a awesome way and finish his arc" but in the back of my head Im sitting there thinking "This stupid movie is full of dumb twist, Where's the stupid twist" Then when Rose hits him I wasn't that surprised.

    Poe:
    Poe is a dumb character and he serves literally no purpose in the grand scheme of things. Hes clearly the dumbest leader ever if he thought that taking 30 bombers and destroying one ship was a good idea when there was like 5 other ships right there. That whole attack was stupid in the first place. Second the whole thing with Holdo and the Mutnuy could have been completely avoid if Holdo had just taken him aside and told him the goddamn plan. It literally would have solved so much. Instead Holdo has to act like a cool kid and just keep the plan to herself. I think the reason why the writers did this was to push a SJW agenda. Now let me explain. The reason why I think this is because it makes no sense for Holdo to keep Poe in the dark. Its literally braindead writing. But at the end it makes the strong cool male character look dumb and makes the woman look super smart and cool. Now I would have a problem with this except the way they did it was so lazy and braindead that it takes you out of the movie. Poe to me as I said is a useless character and does nothing for me.

    Rey: The biggest Mary Sue I have ever seen in my life. Shes a scavenger on Jakku with no combat training at all. She finds BB-8 and Finn and helps them out to leave Jakku because...? Why not. Jakku looks like crap and no one would want to live there. Shes eating nasty food and not that much of it anyway. With Luke on tatooine it was different. Luke was bored with his life and wanted to leave his home and do something more with him. He wanted to be a part of something great than himself. That makes his character very relatable in ANH. I cannot related to Rey at all in TFA. Next at the end of TFA her and Finn stand there while Kylo gets shot. Why. The dude just killed one of your friends and all you do is sit on a ledge and cry? Now Here is where the movie could have redeemed itself. When Kylo Ren attempts to force grab Lukes old light saber and it whizzes past him the person who should have caught it should have been Luke. Luke should have sensed that his Daughter (Who should be Rey tbh) is in trouble and as we know from ESB Luke has to go help her. Then Luke easily disarms a wounded Kylo but Kylo has so much hate that he unleashes a Sith foce power (Could be something like lightning or something new but not too crazy) That's when the gorge should have opened up. Then once Luke saved Rey he could have been reluctent to train her for some reason (Not going to go into more detail you get the gist) Rey beating Kylo is easily the dumbest thing ever. Kylo was a trained Sith. He had been trained by Snoke and Luke. He was using the Darkside and the Sith feed off of pain, anger and hate. His pain should have made him stronger.

    Part 2 will come later if you respond to part 1.

    I'm sorry that you felt Rose ruined Finn's character arc. For me, personally, she made it. She convinced him to fight for something and to be a better person. I admit a few lines in the movie could have been written better, but I found Finn's arc to be one of the best and I enjoyed it :) I will say that if Finn died in The Last Jedi, it would have seemed Rose essentially convinced him to kill himself and that isn't maybe the message they were wanting to give.

    Poe did have a reason for launching the attack, he described the Dreadnought as a fleet killer and felt that it would be better if it was destroyed. In some ways, he could have been right about that. But a character making mistakes, doing things that they shouldn't do... it doesn't make them stupid. It doesn't make the scenario stupid. It makes them human. People make mistakes, and Poe's arc was all about correcting his.

    Maybe with hindsight, Holdo would agree with you about speaking to him. But there's more to writing than what a character should do... It's more about what they would do. What information did they have at the time? Like I said above, Poe, Rose and Finn hadn't shared crucial information with her about the light speed tracking. They hadn't consulted with her about their plan, or do anything that they should have done. In that scenario, where as I said Holdo would have probably thought a spy would be responsible for the First Order tracking them, she had literally no reason to play ball with a self-important hot-head demanding answers from her after being demoted by the leader she succeeded. In her place, would you? Would you reveal information that could lead to the downfall of a faction and what you believe in to the person causing you the greatest headache and, based on available information, the most likely person to be a traitor?
    A question for you: If the purpose of Poe's character arc was to make a male character seem stupid, why would you make a strong female character in a leadership role defer command to him at the end of the movie when his arc was complete? Wouldn't that work against your intentions? Why would Poe emerge from his arc as a better leader if you intended to make him seem stupid and therefore incapable of leading when the movie featured a capable female leader already in the role?

    Rey... The Force Awakens disagrees with you about her combat training. She is shown to be skilled with her staff, which makes sense given the environment. Jakku isn't exactly in the suburbs, she would have needed to defend herself.
    Rey leaves Jakku for a number of reasons, definitely including the fact it's in the middle of nowhere and sucks, and wouldn't have much food and water. Rey is kinda working in slave-like conditions on Jakku, and early in the movie you see her looking at an elderly scavenger who has probably been on the planet working for their entire life. Rey didnt want to become like her, she wanted more, and it's made pretty clear she admires the Rebellion and Resistance. But despite all of that, she also has a reason to stay - to wait for her family. Honestly? I prefer Rey's reasons for leaving. They are more complex than boredom and it's a source of conflict for her.
    I would need to watch The Force Awakens again to be 100% sure, but Han was blocking any shot they would have had at Kylo for most of that scene, and once Chewie shot him with his bowcaster First Order Stormtroopers quickly started to fire at all of them and it made it impossible to do anything but retreat.

    I personally disagree with your ideas with Luke. For me, it just wouldnt make any kind of sense. He would have appeared from nowhere to save the day, when everything else in the movie was about fighting over a map that led to him. If both the Resistance and the First Order wanted to find him... how would making him appear make sense?
    I think enjoying Luke's character is a good thing. I think wanting to see him again is perfectly understandable but not at the expense of story cohesion. In a way, Luke is Kylo's history, but it was a history we didn't even see properly at that point, so it would have been impossible to have investment in the fight. Kylo is Rey's villain, it's Kylo who is responsible for Rey's awakening in the force and it's Kylo's fault she's on Starkiller Base. To take away the story from Rey to focus on someone who had no real presence in the narrative at the very end just wouldnt work, imo.

    Also, Kylo Ren definitely isn't a Sith, and I'm pretty sure he didn't complete his training - Snoke wanted Hux to bring Kylo to him to complete his training at the end of The Force Awakens, but as The Last Jedi takes place immediately after TFA, I have my doubts that he completed his training at all.

    People strong in the dark side do get more powerful in the force with pain etc, but their bodies still suffer - at least, that has always been my personal interpretation. But as I said, Kylo was unbalanced after killing Han, Snoke even references that in TLJ. I think Kylo was at his weakest in that part of the movie both physically and in the force. Still strong enough to pose a threat to Rey after being shot by a bowcaster and injured with a lightsaber by Finn, but still at his weakest and most vulnerable. I personally see it as showcasing his strength that he fought so well.

    I hope this answers some of your points :)
    "The question," she replied, "Is not whether you will love, hurt, dream, and die. It is what you will love, why you will hurt, when you will dream, and how you will die. This is your choice. You cannot pick the destination, only the path." - Oathbringer.
  • Feelee16
    2231 posts Member
    Never was a fan of the ST. A lot of missed opportunities imo, great things we could've seen more of.

    Examples
    •Luke's successful Jedi order and his teachings
    •Luke's force abilities (that doesn't kill him)
    •OT trio reunion
    •More of the New republic
    •Galaxy life after ep.6

    The ST for me sadly seems like it was made only to kill the Skywalker family off. Not a good ending imo, don't really count Rey as a Skywalker either
    ur9uulae4dqx.gif
  • bfloo
    17090 posts Member
    Feelee16 wrote: »
    Never was a fan of the ST. A lot of missed opportunities imo, great things we could've seen more of.

    Examples
    •Luke's successful Jedi order and his teachings
    •Luke's force abilities (that doesn't kill him)
    •OT trio reunion
    •More of the New republic
    •Galaxy life after ep.6

    The ST for me sadly seems like it was made only to kill the Skywalker family off. Not a good ending imo, don't really count Rey as a Skywalker either

    I didn't mind Luke's order falling, though why it fell was pretty bad

    Luke was supposed to be in his prime, it was a let down.

    No OT reunion was a missed opportunity. They should have used them in TFA to push over the new cast and killed them off in a blaze of glory.

    The New Republic is the worst used faction in Star Wars history.

    Galactic life wasn't a big priority to me, it was only touched upon briefly in the previous films. OT we got Tatooine and Bespin, PT Coruscant and Tatooine, ST Jakku and Canto Blight.

    The toons added to it as well, no idea if resistance followed that trend.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • Cane_danko
    1628 posts Member
    Star wars is like an abusive relationship to a lot of people. It beats them up and treats them like dirt but they still love it.
  • LaurenXIV wrote: »
    The Ghostbusters movie was essentially the old ghostbusters movie but way worse and with women only. It was completely unneeded and no one asked for it. Star Wars shoves this in your face. Like Holdo and Rose are just awful characters that felt like they were thrown in for the sake of having more women. Captain Marvael was a good movie can't say much about it. Had a female lead with a female friend. The MCUs is the most blatant one I can think of off the top of my head. In Avengers (Endgame? Could have been Infinity War) There is a shot of all the women heros on the battlefield. No men at all. This moment feels so incredibly forced. There is hundreds of better ways to do this. Show women in the crowd fighting with the men. Show a woman saving a male heros life. Its not force and it looks nice and keeps the audince in the movie. Showing the panoramic shot of all the woman heros took me out of the movie.

    I think I'll send you a PM about this, it might take some time to type but thank you for your input in the meantime :)
    First let me address the last comment ROMG4 made. "You made a better movie in that snippet you wrote" Thats legit the biggest problem I have. The ST makes so incredibly stupid decisions that if they had used their brains they would have realized "Okay wait now this doesn't really make sense" or "This doesn't work. It needs to be changed"

    Now onto the character arcs. Finns arc is by far the best for me but is utterly ruined by Rose. If Finn had actually sacrificed himself in TLJ I would have actually liked the movie. Instead Rose The garbage can of the ST ruins that moment and that movie. I was litearlly sitting in the theater and when Finn was heading for the canon I thought to my self "Wow Disney actually has some balls. Finns gonna go out in a awesome way and finish his arc" but in the back of my head Im sitting there thinking "This stupid movie is full of dumb twist, Where's the stupid twist" Then when Rose hits him I wasn't that surprised.

    Poe:
    Poe is a dumb character and he serves literally no purpose in the grand scheme of things. Hes clearly the dumbest leader ever if he thought that taking 30 bombers and destroying one ship was a good idea when there was like 5 other ships right there. That whole attack was stupid in the first place. Second the whole thing with Holdo and the Mutnuy could have been completely avoid if Holdo had just taken him aside and told him the goddamn plan. It literally would have solved so much. Instead Holdo has to act like a cool kid and just keep the plan to herself. I think the reason why the writers did this was to push a SJW agenda. Now let me explain. The reason why I think this is because it makes no sense for Holdo to keep Poe in the dark. Its literally braindead writing. But at the end it makes the strong cool male character look dumb and makes the woman look super smart and cool. Now I would have a problem with this except the way they did it was so lazy and braindead that it takes you out of the movie. Poe to me as I said is a useless character and does nothing for me.

    Rey: The biggest Mary Sue I have ever seen in my life. Shes a scavenger on Jakku with no combat training at all. She finds BB-8 and Finn and helps them out to leave Jakku because...? Why not. Jakku looks like crap and no one would want to live there. Shes eating nasty food and not that much of it anyway. With Luke on tatooine it was different. Luke was bored with his life and wanted to leave his home and do something more with him. He wanted to be a part of something great than himself. That makes his character very relatable in ANH. I cannot related to Rey at all in TFA. Next at the end of TFA her and Finn stand there while Kylo gets shot. Why. The dude just killed one of your friends and all you do is sit on a ledge and cry? Now Here is where the movie could have redeemed itself. When Kylo Ren attempts to force grab Lukes old light saber and it whizzes past him the person who should have caught it should have been Luke. Luke should have sensed that his Daughter (Who should be Rey tbh) is in trouble and as we know from ESB Luke has to go help her. Then Luke easily disarms a wounded Kylo but Kylo has so much hate that he unleashes a Sith foce power (Could be something like lightning or something new but not too crazy) That's when the gorge should have opened up. Then once Luke saved Rey he could have been reluctent to train her for some reason (Not going to go into more detail you get the gist) Rey beating Kylo is easily the dumbest thing ever. Kylo was a trained Sith. He had been trained by Snoke and Luke. He was using the Darkside and the Sith feed off of pain, anger and hate. His pain should have made him stronger.

    Part 2 will come later if you respond to part 1.

    I'm sorry that you felt Rose ruined Finn's character arc. For me, personally, she made it. She convinced him to fight for something and to be a better person. I admit a few lines in the movie could have been written better, but I found Finn's arc to be one of the best and I enjoyed it :) I will say that if Finn died in The Last Jedi, it would have seemed Rose essentially convinced him to kill himself and that isn't maybe the message they were wanting to give.

    Poe did have a reason for launching the attack, he described the Dreadnought as a fleet killer and felt that it would be better if it was destroyed. In some ways, he could have been right about that. But a character making mistakes, doing things that they shouldn't do... it doesn't make them stupid. It doesn't make the scenario stupid. It makes them human. People make mistakes, and Poe's arc was all about correcting his.

    Maybe with hindsight, Holdo would agree with you about speaking to him. But there's more to writing than what a character should do... It's more about what they would do. What information did they have at the time? Like I said above, Poe, Rose and Finn hadn't shared crucial information with her about the light speed tracking. They hadn't consulted with her about their plan, or do anything that they should have done. In that scenario, where as I said Holdo would have probably thought a spy would be responsible for the First Order tracking them, she had literally no reason to play ball with a self-important hot-head demanding answers from her after being demoted by the leader she succeeded. In her place, would you? Would you reveal information that could lead to the downfall of a faction and what you believe in to the person causing you the greatest headache and, based on available information, the most likely person to be a traitor?
    A question for you: If the purpose of Poe's character arc was to make a male character seem stupid, why would you make a strong female character in a leadership role defer command to him at the end of the movie when his arc was complete? Wouldn't that work against your intentions? Why would Poe emerge from his arc as a better leader if you intended to make him seem stupid and therefore incapable of leading when the movie featured a capable female leader already in the role?

    Rey... The Force Awakens disagrees with you about her combat training. She is shown to be skilled with her staff, which makes sense given the environment. Jakku isn't exactly in the suburbs, she would have needed to defend herself.
    Rey leaves Jakku for a number of reasons, definitely including the fact it's in the middle of nowhere and sucks, and wouldn't have much food and water. Rey is kinda working in slave-like conditions on Jakku, and early in the movie you see her looking at an elderly scavenger who has probably been on the planet working for their entire life. Rey didnt want to become like her, she wanted more, and it's made pretty clear she admires the Rebellion and Resistance. But despite all of that, she also has a reason to stay - to wait for her family. Honestly? I prefer Rey's reasons for leaving. They are more complex than boredom and it's a source of conflict for her.
    I would need to watch The Force Awakens again to be 100% sure, but Han was blocking any shot they would have had at Kylo for most of that scene, and once Chewie shot him with his bowcaster First Order Stormtroopers quickly started to fire at all of them and it made it impossible to do anything but retreat.

    I personally disagree with your ideas with Luke. For me, it just wouldnt make any kind of sense. He would have appeared from nowhere to save the day, when everything else in the movie was about fighting over a map that led to him. If both the Resistance and the First Order wanted to find him... how would making him appear make sense?
    I think enjoying Luke's character is a good thing. I think wanting to see him again is perfectly understandable but not at the expense of story cohesion. In a way, Luke is Kylo's history, but it was a history we didn't even see properly at that point, so it would have been impossible to have investment in the fight. Kylo is Rey's villain, it's Kylo who is responsible for Rey's awakening in the force and it's Kylo's fault she's on Starkiller Base. To take away the story from Rey to focus on someone who had no real presence in the narrative at the very end just wouldnt work, imo.

    Also, Kylo Ren definitely isn't a Sith, and I'm pretty sure he didn't complete his training - Snoke wanted Hux to bring Kylo to him to complete his training at the end of The Force Awakens, but as The Last Jedi takes place immediately after TFA, I have my doubts that he completed his training at all.

    People strong in the dark side do get more powerful in the force with pain etc, but their bodies still suffer - at least, that has always been my personal interpretation. But as I said, Kylo was unbalanced after killing Han, Snoke even references that in TLJ. I think Kylo was at his weakest in that part of the movie both physically and in the force. Still strong enough to pose a threat to Rey after being shot by a bowcaster and injured with a lightsaber by Finn, but still at his weakest and most vulnerable. I personally see it as showcasing his strength that he fought so well.

    I hope this answers some of your points :)

    Cannot wait for your PM on the first subject. :)

    Now for Finn. When he was rushing towards the canon. He wasn't just killing himself. He was sacrificing himself. All we had seen from Finn was that he was someone who wanted no part of this and run away but then understood why they were fighting and he was prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice. Also how did Finn and Rose not get shot by the ATM-6s after they crashed? Like ummm?

    Now onto Poe. Yes it is human for people to make mistakes and I understand the Dreadnought was a fleet killer but The FO still had lots of ships left. You had 3 they have what looks to be 4 ships plus a Supership (Snokes Ship). Obviously anyone with tactical planning could look at that and understand that a attack like that is completely stupid. It would have made more sense if Poe had a small group of Resistance Fighters hiding on a planet and so if the mission failed it wouldn't be a huge loss but they had the whole Resistance fleet there. Also another problem with that scene is Poe going in alone and talking to General "Hugs" or what ever that whole thing was. FO has a tractor beam. Use it. Another thing. Why would Holdo get mad that Poe sent Finn and Rose on a mission secretly. She said "You bet the survival of the Resistance on bad odds" Well no he didn't He sent two people on a different mission that wouldn't affect the main mission if they failed. If they did succeed the the main mission would be much easier.

    Now let me do Luke. I didn't explain this enough. Thats why it don't make sense. Honestly all the OT characters should have been killed at the beginning anyway. All they did was ruin them. Han is a failure of a Father and he is divorced with Leia. Leia failed to do a good job in the republic. Luke failed the Jedi Order. Who wants to see all there beloved characters become failures?

    Rey:
    I get that she would have had some training with the staff but a lightsaber and a staff are two very different weapons. Now onto the scene where Kylo killed Han. Han fell almost immediately after he was stabbed. If Chewy has enough time to shoot kylo so does Finn and Rey.

    Also If Kylo isn't a sith then what is he? Star Wars has always been Light vs Dark, Good vs Evil, Jedi vs Sith. If Kylo isn't a Sith then that breaks the cycle. Finn shouldn't have injured Kylo at all. Same with Rey. That whole duel was stupid. Rey and Finn should have both been easily disarmed. Then Kylo gets smacked in the face with a lightsaber. And if you look at his cut it starts at his neck and tavels up his jaw. That light saber cut should have cut both his jaw and his face in half based on the fact that the lightsaber was deep enough to hit his neck.

    As I said above please PM on the other subject.
    Baby Yoda is the absolute greatest character Disney has created.

    Baby Yoda is love, Baby Yoda is life.

    OOM-9 For Battlefront 2


  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    It's been a while hasn't it since the Disney takeover hasn't it? But if you can take your mind back to that time when they bought Lucasfilm and made the entire EU non-canon. The decades of work by thousands of writers in every medium and format you can imagine gone like that

    One of the most common defenses for this move by both Lucasfilm and their defenders, was that Legends was "inconsistent". They said many stories were contradicting or retconning others, power levels of Jedi and Sith being elevated to Super Saiyans, stories being poorly done or developed, or even better. That it just repeated the exact same stories over and over again

    And in the course of one sequel trilogy, what do we have? A trilogy that contracts not only itself in every following film but it also went and contradicted the entire past two trilogies, Jedi and Sith doing anime over the top power levels, Technology and aspects of the universe getting massive steroid injections (thousands of Death Stars as Star Destroyers, yaaaay), zero world building, and macguffins, macguffins, MACGUFFINS

    A trilogy that literally recycles the same arcs, themes, and story in every single bloody film

    Well, was it worth it?

    Awsome bro, exactly my thoughts, great job! 👍
  • ROMG4
    4726 posts Member
    When you see the reply sizes you've been waiting for
    GYUuqgW.gif
    LaurenXIV wrote: »
    Yup! To you too :) Sorry for the late reply, I don't often look in the Off-Topic section.

    I understand that people had investment in the EU stories and characters - I did too, and I think EU material added lots of depth to the lore. But I think they made the best choice. There are rumors that there will be a remake of KOTOR to fit it into the new canon, so I think what they are doing now is drawing inspiration from or remaking things from the EU so they can be added into the new canon and be cohesive. Maybe in the future some Legends material can be introduced into canon again.

    The thing is, EU material can still be enjoyed and included in "headcanon", even if they are technically non-canon. It's a fictional universe after all and canon is basically a made-up idea. With the EU, canon and non-canon material was essentially a matter of opinion anyway.
    It's no biggey been busy myself which Is why I haven't replied for so long.

    Comparatively, the canon they've set for a lot of canon characters pales in comparison to the ones in Legends. In Legends Grievous used to a surprisingly tragic and sympathetic character whose's fall really emphasized the manipulative and corrupting nature of Palpatine and fittingly reflected Vader's tragic fall as well. In canon, he's now just a mustache twirler who became a cyborg because he was Jelly. Same with Jango no longer being a Mandalorian, so we've lost all those fantastic Mandalorian plot lines and lore. EU and canon have done bad and good stuff, but when they tossed out the EU, they tossed out every good thing that was in it, and recently they've not done that good a job so far. They should have kept elements in rather than tossing the whole tub out because look where they are now with only their work to hold themselves to.
    I figured I'd ask before I reply, were the mystery hooks for you Rey's parents and the identity of Snoke?
    The mystery hooks for me were the state of the Galaxy, the nature of the First Order how they formed and their similarities and differences to the Galactic Empire, the knowledge of the Force and mysticism Luke may have acquired, exploring the Unknown Regions, and of course Snoke's identity. I could have cared less about her parents other then what development it could have helped bring to her arc
    Finn:
    Huh, that's a really well-done analysis, never quite thought of Finn's arc in such terms. Still, intention or not, Finn's character arc was poorly developed in the movies due to their breakneck pace and complete lack of breaks/quiet moments to allow the characters to have room for introspection. Personally I would and still prefer to have had Finn's story revolve around his life as a Stormtrooper, his trouble connecting with others and the social norms of the galaxy, his education is full of propaganda, and so forth. It would have been fantastic to let us see the galaxy from a main character who was once on the evil side, though not by choice. It could have brought some character to a side of the star wars galaxy rarely explored anywhere but novels. Now back to your analysis, I do enjoy this discussion about apathy vs. involvement. Its something that could be very engaging and impactive if executed with subtlety. The Last Jedi goes with a sledgehammer approach; the examples you mention, such as Rose and Finn being reckless and letting the ship drop on the beach is a bit ridiculous. That's my problem with TLJ. It has no concept of subtlety and puts its themes over the substance of the plot and logic. Things happen in this movie because the themes demand they happen, not because they make any sense coming from characters like these. Rose is a resistance member. She alone should know parking on the beach instead of the 7-foot tall grass in the outskirts of the casino was a bad idea. She only does that because she has to because of the way rian organized the theme's structure.
    Rey's story arc in The Last Jedi... is a little different and harder to spot than the others. I'd argue that her arc is about becoming emotionally independent. In a sense, she isn't an emotionally independent person at the beginning of the movie. I'd say Kylo especially tries to use that against her. He tries to make her feel worthless to manipulate her and convince her to join him, and her story is about having the emotional independence that she doesn't ultimately need him, or anyone.
    True but we never really see that in the films. The few moments of doubt she has are quickly tossed aside by the film to get to more action scenes. She never suffers from a lack of faith, a loss of trust in others that lasts more than a minute. Now yes there is TLJ where she believes Kylo will end up helping her when instead he turns her to snoke

    But does she actually suffer from it? Not only does Kylo end up killing Snoke and his royal guards but she essentially landed a massive blow to the FO even though it was supposed to be a mistake on her part. When Anakin messed up in EP2, they got captured and were it not for the Republic declaring war on the Separatists and the deaths of hundreds of jedi, they would have been killed. Same thing occured later when he tried to take Dooku head on, he lost his hand. When Luke left Yoda and Obiwan against their pleas in EP5 he got smacked down, given a devastating truth, lost his hand and Lightsaber, and was nearly captured

    The closest Rey gets to this moment is in EP8 and she ultimately gains more than she lost. She suffered no devastating truth, no traumatic injury, no near capture, heck all things considered she could have won the war right there had she killed Kylo while he was unconscious from the crystal explosion. The intention in the films was indeed to have Rey be a bit weak emotionally but the films do such a poor job of balancing it that she ultimately ends up with no real weaknesses, I mean she resists Kylo not once, not twice, but like 5 times in the whole trilogy everytime he tries to win her over, she never even suffers a crisis of faith from it
    Kylo Arc
    My problem with Kylo is he's portrayed to be this tragic and damaged individual but we ultimately never learn why. We never learn what his childhood was like, how his relationships were, what his training under Snoke was like. We never learn the events that led to his fall and influenced his life. So when the film just continually portrays him as this barely restrained wreck that tears his environment apart in rage at inconvenience. It's hard to feel any sort of sympathy or think "this guy is dangerous" Kylo ren never really gets to show off his power or his inner conflict because the film keeps jumping him from rage, to sad, to bratty. His arc for me is a perfect example of the inconsistency in the Sequel Trilogy, a bunch of really interesting ideas that are left out to dry

    In the South Pole
    Oops... my bad.
    To be honest, I have been tempted to write some fanfiction, like a rewrite of the sequel trilogy... keeping everything largely the same as much as possible, but also improving the consistency and also without mentioning Rey's parents in relation to the plot in the slightest :P
    tumblr_p6fls3jvjY1v1kp6vo2_r6_540.gifv
    I'll totally read it if you ever decide to do it! I have no doubt you could write a much more engaging and quality story with just that snippet and your observations

    OOM-9 FOR LEGO STAR WARS
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    Bring OOM-9, Hondo, Bo Katan, Mara Jade, Dengar, IG-88, Greedo, Zam Wessel General Veers, Tarkin and Rogue One, into the game we must. The way this is
    Tell Me. Have You Ever Heard Of The Tragedy Of Darth Coyler The Wise?
    A OOM-9 Thread!
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/152598/the-oom-9-vs-jar-jar-season

    Episode 9's Ending
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6025735/uploads/editor/15/zs312vl0xftg.jpeg
  • ROMG4
    4726 posts Member
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Star wars is like an abusive relationship to a lot of people. It beats them up and treats them like dirt but they still love it.

    5267475-jackie-chan-meme-png-png-image-transparent-png-free-download-on-jackie-chan-meme-png-820_553_preview.png
    OOM-9 FOR LEGO STAR WARS
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    Bring OOM-9, Hondo, Bo Katan, Mara Jade, Dengar, IG-88, Greedo, Zam Wessel General Veers, Tarkin and Rogue One, into the game we must. The way this is
    Tell Me. Have You Ever Heard Of The Tragedy Of Darth Coyler The Wise?
    A OOM-9 Thread!
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/152598/the-oom-9-vs-jar-jar-season

    Episode 9's Ending
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6025735/uploads/editor/15/zs312vl0xftg.jpeg
  • Cane_danko
    1628 posts Member
    ROMG4 wrote: »
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Star wars is like an abusive relationship to a lot of people. It beats them up and treats them like dirt but they still love it.

    5267475-jackie-chan-meme-png-png-image-transparent-png-free-download-on-jackie-chan-meme-png-820_553_preview.png

    I have a feeling you had a totally awesome meme in response but it isn’t showing for me.
  • ROMG4
    4726 posts Member
    edited March 23
    Cane_danko wrote: »

    I have a feeling you had a totally awesome meme in response but it isn’t showing for me.
    whry5hlincub.png
    Cane_danko wrote: »
    Star wars is like an abusive relationship to a lot of people. It beats them up and treats them like dirt but they still love it.
    bn6qe0jwuioi.png
    OOM-9 FOR LEGO STAR WARS
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    Bring OOM-9, Hondo, Bo Katan, Mara Jade, Dengar, IG-88, Greedo, Zam Wessel General Veers, Tarkin and Rogue One, into the game we must. The way this is
    Tell Me. Have You Ever Heard Of The Tragedy Of Darth Coyler The Wise?
    A OOM-9 Thread!
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/152598/the-oom-9-vs-jar-jar-season

    Episode 9's Ending
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6025735/uploads/editor/15/zs312vl0xftg.jpeg
  • there is such a thing as good story structure, good character writing, good conflict development and resolution, good pacing...a shame the sequels had none of these things, although it did deliver lots of fan service if that's your thing
    Order of Strike maps leading up to Extraction:
    Kamino -> Mos Eisley -> Death Star II -> Kessel -> Jabba's
  • CeymalRen
    1803 posts Member
    This is a troll thread right?
  • CeymalRen
    1803 posts Member
    I think the Sequel Trilogy is on par with the Original Trilogy in terms of quality.

    Agreed.
  • CeymalRen wrote: »
    I think the Sequel Trilogy is on par with the Original Trilogy in terms of quality.

    Agreed.
    6knpt1qk2kzo.gif

    Heroes are born on the battlefront... especially if you play the objective.
    vuguzqzbjxrh.png
  • ROMG4
    4726 posts Member
    CeymalRen wrote: »
    This is a troll thread right?

    tumblr_onqlkt6Cfa1vwwm7ko3_400.gifv
    OOM-9 FOR LEGO STAR WARS
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    Bring OOM-9, Hondo, Bo Katan, Mara Jade, Dengar, IG-88, Greedo, Zam Wessel General Veers, Tarkin and Rogue One, into the game we must. The way this is
    Tell Me. Have You Ever Heard Of The Tragedy Of Darth Coyler The Wise?
    A OOM-9 Thread!
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/152598/the-oom-9-vs-jar-jar-season

    Episode 9's Ending
    https://us.v-cdn.net/6025735/uploads/editor/15/zs312vl0xftg.jpeg
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