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Why are we still limited to only 2 hands?

Blazur
4468 posts Member
@FireWall, I'd love to open a discussion with you and get your thoughts on expanding our hand capacity.

Your team has developed a neat system where players can fine tune their loadouts with custom tailored hands, and the increasing variety of star cards brings about great potential for variable playstyles. But at the same time you've tied our hands behind our backs by limiting us to only 2 hands for a given game. Furthermore, by not allowing us to change our traits you've restricted our freedom to adjust our tactics throughout a match.

Why are you so opposed to giving us more flexibility for bringing different loadouts into a game? With only 2 hands I'll often rely on the same 2 or 3 loadouts that are the most practical for a given game mode. That means if the enemy team is using a particular strategy that hard counters us then we're often stuck playing impractically, unable to adapt on-the-fly. This could happen when the enemy gets air dominance and is raining death from above, or perhaps they're using a heavy sniper strategy and our team has a bunch of grenades in our loadout.

I recall early on hearing this was a design decision to prevent players from getting revenge kills. But in reality...what is the harm in that? If somebody is dominating you with a certain strategy, there's no greater feeling than switching to a loadout that can counter their tactics and getting that sweet revenge kill. In Overwatch, when a team is dominating you with a particular team composition you switch up your own characters to counter them. And that's part of the fun and key to mastery of the game.

Another thing that would be great is allowing us to assign traits to our hands. Certainly loadouts would benefit more from a specific trait than others. A sniper loadout, for example, would do well to have bounty hunter. Whereby a hand designed to hunker down and defend an objective in confined spaces would benefit more from bodyguard.

The game now has 33star cards, and yet you're restricting us to no more than 7 at a time (with a trait). Why not open up the possibility of more hands for more varied playstyles? I've suggested unlocking a 3rd or 4th hand as part of an accomplishment. Perhaps getting all challenges or completing X items in the diorama can do this for the truly dedicated players. The people that don't work hard for this probably won't care about having extra hands to bring into the game. But those of us who dedicate the effort, and spend a great deal of time meticulously crafting varied loadouts would certainly appreciate being rewarded and having the freedom to use more than 2 hands for that extra bit of edge. Battlefront 2 had more restricted loadouts, but was more fun because you could swap between several of them in a given match.

Dennis, can you please share your thoughts on the topic?
The greatest teacher, failure is.

Replies

  • Zman2202
    455 posts Member
    Yeah, honestly what I want soon is a a way to change my trait like a change my loadout. That would be really great, and also I think we should increase the hand size by four instead of two. What do you think?
  • Piscettios
    5814 posts Member
    Should at least have two separate set ups for both the rebs and imps.
    Knights of Gareth
    XBL- JsOnMyFett 13
  • Blazur wrote: »
    @FireWall, I'd love to open a discussion with you and get your thoughts on expanding our hand capacity.

    Your team has developed a neat system where players can fine tune their loadouts with custom tailored hands, and the increasing variety of star cards brings about great potential for variable playstyles. But at the same time you've tied our hands behind our backs by limiting us to only 2 hands for a given game. Furthermore, by not allowing us to change our traits you've restricted our freedom to adjust our tactics throughout a match.

    Why are you so opposed to giving us more flexibility for bringing different loadouts into a game? With only 2 hands I'll often rely on the same 2 or 3 loadouts that are the most practical for a given game mode. That means if the enemy team is using a particular strategy that hard counters us then we're often stuck playing impractically, unable to adapt on-the-fly. This could happen when the enemy gets air dominance and is raining death from above, or perhaps they're using a heavy sniper strategy and our team has a bunch of grenades in our loadout.

    I recall early on hearing this was a design decision to prevent players from getting revenge kills. But in reality...what is the harm in that? If somebody is dominating you with a certain strategy, there's no greater feeling than switching to a loadout that can counter their tactics and getting that sweet revenge kill. In Overwatch, when a team is dominating you with a particular team composition you switch up your own characters to counter them. And that's part of the fun and key to mastery of the game.

    Another thing that would be great is allowing us to assign traits to our hands. Certainly loadouts would benefit more from a specific trait than others. A sniper loadout, for example, would do well to have bounty hunter. Whereby a hand designed to hunker down and defend an objective in confined spaces would benefit more from bodyguard.

    The game now has 33star cards, and yet you're restricting us to no more than 7 at a time (with a trait). Why not open up the possibility of more hands for more varied playstyles? I've suggested unlocking a 3rd or 4th hand as part of an accomplishment. Perhaps getting all challenges or completing X items in the diorama can do this for the truly dedicated players. The people that don't work hard for this probably won't care about having extra hands to bring into the game. But those of us who dedicate the effort, and spend a great deal of time meticulously crafting varied loadouts would certainly appreciate being rewarded and having the freedom to use more than 2 hands for that extra bit of edge. Battlefront 2 had more restricted loadouts, but was more fun because you could swap between several of them in a given match.

    Dennis, can you please share your thoughts on the topic?

    ESPECIALLY now that there is no next round countdown timer. That was the perfect time to look at what game mode and map you are playing, and adjust both your hands in time. Now its even harder to considering the match has already started each time I get to the pre match menu.

    And I also thought they were going to, at the very least, link traits to the star card hands, so we can have the option of two different traits per match.
  • Newsh
    172 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    A 3rd hand would be enough for me. I can have it as a dedicated ion/Anti Vehicle class for Walker Assault when I'm on the Rebel team
    TK7725 - 501st Legion.
  • Blazur
    4468 posts Member
    Zman2202 wrote: »
    Yeah, honestly what I want soon is a a way to change my trait like a change my loadout. That would be really great, and also I think we should increase the hand size by four instead of two. What do you think?

    Even just one more hand would help. In walker assault as rebels I always feel obligated to bring an ion loadout. It's ideal for taking out the walker, but may not be helpful throughout the rest of the game. The other hand typically has jump pack to minimize travel time and something to help me take an objective. That means if several players get a good vantage point to snipe I'm often useless against that strategy.

    Certain loadouts may work well on one part of a map and not on others. Take Hoth for example. A loadout with long range weapons like the pulse cannon are great for the outdoor areas, but not necessarily suitable for taking indoor objectives. The same can be said for Sullust.
    The greatest teacher, failure is.
  • jason_kal
    1151 posts Member
    It's a terrible system.

    Sure, if you have a tight-knit group of players and 8-20 people can co-ordinate so they all have mutually complementary hands, then the overall team is flexible and can deal with anything.

    But that will rarely happen in public pickup games.

    We should have TEN Hands available to us in game.
  • Zman2202
    455 posts Member
    jason_kal wrote: »
    It's a terrible system.

    Sure, if you have a tight-knit group of players and 8-20 people can co-ordinate so they all have mutually complementary hands, then the overall team is flexible and can deal with anything.

    But that will rarely happen in public pickup games.

    We should have TEN Hands available to us in game.

    I dont know man that seems a bit much and too much time spent deciding. Just 4 hands and a way to change my trait in game is great
  • Piscettios wrote: »
    Should at least have two separate set ups for both the rebs and imps.

    Yep
  • Blazur
    4468 posts Member
    ESPECIALLY now that there is no next round countdown timer. That was the perfect time to look at what game mode and map you are playing, and adjust both your hands in time. Now its even harder to considering the match has already started each time I get to the pre match menu

    Just to clarify there's still a pre-round timer but it seems to be reduced to the point where it's hardly noticable. But that brings up a good point.

    The DLC playlists introduce variable modes, and different modes necessitate different loadouts. So it becomes a bit of a hassle having to tailor your hands after each mode switch. Having extra hands would allow us to select a few general loadouts that could work throughout the entire playlist and eliminate that chore.
    The greatest teacher, failure is.
  • Excellent post, I would love this as I play 75% on my own and don't have the benefit of coordinating with other players.

    It'd be nice to get 2 hand sets (1 Rebels 1 Imperials) with three hands each. That would cover CQC, Mid-Long Range and Anti-air/vehicle for both factions.
  • WodiQuix
    4549 posts Member
    Newsh wrote: »
    A 3rd hand would be enough for me. I can have it as a dedicated ion/Anti Vehicle class for Walker Assault when I'm on the Rebel team

    Same for me.
  • Joonlar
    1154 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    +1

    Having too many loadouts is not good, but 2 is too limited.

    What about 4 hands + 1 partner hand?

    or 3 hands + all 3 partner hands (if you want to encourage partner play then why not?)
  • Joonlar wrote: »
    +1

    Having too many loadouts is not good, but 2 is too limited.

    What about 4 hands + 1 partner hand?

    or 3 hands + all 3 partner hands (if you want to encourage partner play then why not?)

    I'm all for this and attach traits to the hands.
  • I have two hands and one is vehicle (ion) specific. I reset my hands for each game/mode and then never change it. Probably should reconsider that since some modes ebb and flow to different situations. But I get too into it and just mash triangle or square to get right back in the fight.
  • Great post OP. Yes, I'd love to see 3-4 hands available, each with the ability to choose a specific trait for each hand, as opposed to only one trait for all hands.

    Also, I'd really like to be able to change hands on the fly, as opposed to having to die/restart to change hands.
  • Blazur
    4468 posts Member
    Also, I'd really like to be able to change hands on the fly, as opposed to having to die/restart to change hands.

    Being able to change hands on-the-fly is something that would undermine cooldowns. Once people exhausted all their cards they could just switch to a different hand with 3 new cards available to use. I think it's fair we should only be able to change hands after death.
    The greatest teacher, failure is.
  • +1 we need more hands.It's depressing when the next maps comes up und you realize you have no chance against opponent's vehicles!
  • +1 this is so obviously needed
  • Blazur wrote: »
    @FireWall, I'd love to open a discussion with you and get your thoughts on expanding our hand capacity.

    Your team has developed a neat system where players can fine tune their loadouts with custom tailored hands, and the increasing variety of star cards brings about great potential for variable playstyles. But at the same time you've tied our hands behind our backs by limiting us to only 2 hands for a given game. Furthermore, by not allowing us to change our traits you've restricted our freedom to adjust our tactics throughout a match.

    Why are you so opposed to giving us more flexibility for bringing different loadouts into a game? With only 2 hands I'll often rely on the same 2 or 3 loadouts that are the most practical for a given game mode. That means if the enemy team is using a particular strategy that hard counters us then we're often stuck playing impractically, unable to adapt on-the-fly. This could happen when the enemy gets air dominance and is raining death from above, or perhaps they're using a heavy sniper strategy and our team has a bunch of grenades in our loadout.

    I recall early on hearing this was a design decision to prevent players from getting revenge kills. But in reality...what is the harm in that? If somebody is dominating you with a certain strategy, there's no greater feeling than switching to a loadout that can counter their tactics and getting that sweet revenge kill. In Overwatch, when a team is dominating you with a particular team composition you switch up your own characters to counter them. And that's part of the fun and key to mastery of the game.

    Another thing that would be great is allowing us to assign traits to our hands. Certainly loadouts would benefit more from a specific trait than others. A sniper loadout, for example, would do well to have bounty hunter. Whereby a hand designed to hunker down and defend an objective in confined spaces would benefit more from bodyguard.

    The game now has 33star cards, and yet you're restricting us to no more than 7 at a time (with a trait). Why not open up the possibility of more hands for more varied playstyles? I've suggested unlocking a 3rd or 4th hand as part of an accomplishment. Perhaps getting all challenges or completing X items in the diorama can do this for the truly dedicated players. The people that don't work hard for this probably won't care about having extra hands to bring into the game. But those of us who dedicate the effort, and spend a great deal of time meticulously crafting varied loadouts would certainly appreciate being rewarded and having the freedom to use more than 2 hands for that extra bit of edge. Battlefront 2 had more restricted loadouts, but was more fun because you could swap between several of them in a given match.

    Dennis, can you please share your thoughts on the topic?

    All my support.

    SW_Sig_zpsjlznlipn.png
  • Newsh wrote: »
    A 3rd hand would be enough for me. I can have it as a dedicated ion/Anti Vehicle class for Walker Assault when I'm on the Rebel team

    This! +1
  • Soul_Phoenix_42
    483 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    2 hands would be fine if we could actually switch out star cards while in a match. I mean, we can switch guns between deaths, but not our star cards/secondaries.... :/
  • briandt75
    5610 posts Member
    Blazur wrote: »
    @FireWall, I'd love to open a discussion with you and get your thoughts on expanding our hand capacity.

    Your team has developed a neat system where players can fine tune their loadouts with custom tailored hands, and the increasing variety of star cards brings about great potential for variable playstyles. But at the same time you've tied our hands behind our backs by limiting us to only 2 hands for a given game. Furthermore, by not allowing us to change our traits you've restricted our freedom to adjust our tactics throughout a match.

    Why are you so opposed to giving us more flexibility for bringing different loadouts into a game? With only 2 hands I'll often rely on the same 2 or 3 loadouts that are the most practical for a given game mode. That means if the enemy team is using a particular strategy that hard counters us then we're often stuck playing impractically, unable to adapt on-the-fly. This could happen when the enemy gets air dominance and is raining death from above, or perhaps they're using a heavy sniper strategy and our team has a bunch of grenades in our loadout.

    I recall early on hearing this was a design decision to prevent players from getting revenge kills. But in reality...what is the harm in that? If somebody is dominating you with a certain strategy, there's no greater feeling than switching to a loadout that can counter their tactics and getting that sweet revenge kill. In Overwatch, when a team is dominating you with a particular team composition you switch up your own characters to counter them. And that's part of the fun and key to mastery of the game.

    Another thing that would be great is allowing us to assign traits to our hands. Certainly loadouts would benefit more from a specific trait than others. A sniper loadout, for example, would do well to have bounty hunter. Whereby a hand designed to hunker down and defend an objective in confined spaces would benefit more from bodyguard.

    The game now has 33star cards, and yet you're restricting us to no more than 7 at a time (with a trait). Why not open up the possibility of more hands for more varied playstyles? I've suggested unlocking a 3rd or 4th hand as part of an accomplishment. Perhaps getting all challenges or completing X items in the diorama can do this for the truly dedicated players. The people that don't work hard for this probably won't care about having extra hands to bring into the game. But those of us who dedicate the effort, and spend a great deal of time meticulously crafting varied loadouts would certainly appreciate being rewarded and having the freedom to use more than 2 hands for that extra bit of edge. Battlefront 2 had more restricted loadouts, but was more fun because you could swap between several of them in a given match.

    Dennis, can you please share your thoughts on the topic?

    ESPECIALLY now that there is no next round countdown timer. That was the perfect time to look at what game mode and map you are playing, and adjust both your hands in time. Now its even harder to considering the match has already started each time I get to the pre match menu.

    And I also thought they were going to, at the very least, link traits to the star card hands, so we can have the option of two different traits per match.

    There's even a picture of a trait in each hand on the loadout screen.
    41st Forum Fury Battalion Member
  • briandt75
    5610 posts Member
    Blazur wrote: »
    Also, I'd really like to be able to change hands on the fly, as opposed to having to die/restart to change hands.

    Being able to change hands on-the-fly is something that would undermine cooldowns. Once people exhausted all their cards they could just switch to a different hand with 3 new cards available to use. I think it's fair we should only be able to change hands after death.

    Good point.
    41st Forum Fury Battalion Member
  • 2 hands would be fine if we could actually switch out star cards while in a match. I mean, we can switch guns between deaths, but not our star cards/secondaries.... :/

    The issue with that is that people would just be changing their hands to counter whatever was going on in the game instead of preparing for it before hand.

    Imagine someone gets in an AT-ST and is doing well because nobody on the other team though of bringing an Anti-Vehicle set. What happens when most of the people who got killed bring on the ION set and all assault an AT-ST before switching back to what they were using before.

    I have no problem with getting more hands but the idea that we should be able to switch the star cards/traits in our hand is completely preposterous.
  • Blazur
    4468 posts Member
    I have no problem with getting more hands but the idea that we should be able to switch the star cards/traits in our hand is completely preposterous.

    Agreed. Being able to switch our hands on-the-fly would undermine the cooldown system, since it could effectively give us 6 cards to use at once.

    I've been suggesting for a long time that additional hand slots can be a reward for completing various feats within the game. Completing the diorama, getting X challenges or accomplishments, or perhaps even a level-gated Hutt contract.

    In the end I just want more freedom to adapt within a particular match. If my 2 hands and single trait isn't working out against a certain team composition then I'm stuck with them for the duration of the game.
    The greatest teacher, failure is.
  • I was wondering the same thing. For example, like having a third hand for hero verse villains or a anti vehicle hand for walker assault. Certain game types require different hands.
    Xbox one: Sams El Camino
  • Blazur
    4468 posts Member
    I was wondering the same thing. For example, like having a third hand for hero verse villains or a anti vehicle hand for walker assault. Certain game types require different hands.

    Good call on an anti-hero hand. Could be helpful to have on sabotage.

    Another thing I just considered is it'll make the mode transitions less painful in the DLC playlists. As you said certain modes necessitate different hands/cards (walker assault, for example). So having just one more hand you can dedicate for a generalist role would minimize the chore of having to adjust your hands between the various modes within a rotation.
    The greatest teacher, failure is.
  • it only takes 2 hands to hold a whopper
  • First time I noticed this thread today. Had no idea you wrote this last month, @Blazur. It's a good one that can work online as well as offline. I think, for online though, they can add your partner's second hand so you have four choices altogether. Then add a new button for Traits. When selected, pop-up window lets you choose either the one you selected, or the other one your partner selected. I don't think they want it to be too flexible anymore than having players accomplish something just to have this ability. They just need to re-design that menu a bit and then let the chips fall where they may in battle.
    Alright... Alright... Alllrrright... B)
    XB1
  • JoshDamage
    1429 posts Member
    edited July 2016
    Like the Hutt contract guess that's part of the challenge lol.
  • Blazur wrote: »
    I was wondering the same thing. For example, like having a third hand for hero verse villains or a anti vehicle hand for walker assault. Certain game types require different hands.

    Good call on an anti-hero hand. Could be helpful to have on sabotage.

    Another thing I just considered is it'll make the mode transitions less painful in the DLC playlists. As you said certain modes necessitate different hands/cards (walker assault, for example). So having just one more hand you can dedicate for a generalist role would minimize the chore of having to adjust your hands between the various modes within a rotation.

    Yes, exactly! that really would make life on the front much easier.
    Xbox one: Sams El Camino
  • JoshDamage
    1429 posts Member
    I think the two hands and the option of your partners hand is good enough. That way it forces you to strategize. It's like the Hutt Contracts lol. Why should we use loadouts we like when the game tells you what to use.
  • I would like to change my weapons and cards ingame.
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