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The scout trait

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Darthsteve88
371 posts Member
edited October 2016
This trait was my favorite trait in this game. But now it's just absolute ****.

What they need to do to make it good again is to swap trait levels 1 & 2 and also give a new trait level 3 effect. Possibly immunity to scan pulse?

DICE, please take this in to consideration. Let's make this trait great again!

Replies

  • It's just been the developers approach all through this game. Anything that is being used too much gets nerfed to the point that nobody even wants to use it anymore

    Why can't they just fix stuff that is already in the game that people aren't using in order to make people want to use it?

    A perfect example was the homing shot. It was fun to use...But they nerfed it to the point where now nobody at all uses it. Why couldn't they have just left it alone and fixed other cards? I mean, I'd bet most people now wouldn't even use the "original" homing shot because there are better and more fun alternatives.

    There are probably plenty more examples of stuff that was great...And then become worthless to use. And plenty of things that people never use because they aren't worth using.

    I get tired of having my gameplay changed because of all the changes that have been made along the way.

  • Wasn't it already immune from Scan pulse?
  • LysdexicsUntied
    2034 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    tts42572 wrote: »
    Why can't they just fix stuff that is already in the game that people aren't using in order to make people want to use it?

    @tts42572 exactly, people were only using scout as oftenas they were because they had no other traits whose effects were actually noticeable. The worst part is that they actually did "fix stuff that is already in the game that people aren't using" - they made literally every trait usable and effective... except scout, which they demoted to ineffective trash. This coming from someone who consistently used Scout well and effectively (unlike most who just used it because it was there, and I don't blame them given their other options) for 10 months

    *stops to regain breath*
    All I am surrounded by is fear... and dead men.
  • tts42572 wrote: »
    It's just been the developers approach all through this game. Anything that is being used too much gets nerfed to the point that nobody even wants to use it anymore

    Why can't they just fix stuff that is already in the game that people aren't using in order to make people want to use it?

    A perfect example was the homing shot. It was fun to use...But they nerfed it to the point where now nobody at all uses it. Why couldn't they have just left it alone and fixed other cards? I mean, I'd bet most people now wouldn't even use the "original" homing shot because there are better and more fun alternatives.

    There are probably plenty more examples of stuff that was great...And then become worthless to use. And plenty of things that people never use because they aren't worth using.

    I get tired of having my gameplay changed because of all the changes that have been made along the way.
    I agree with everything you said except the homing shot. That thing was so incredibly dumb. Well deserved nerf but like you said they need to fix things before nerfing.

  • tts42572 wrote: »
    A perfect example was the homing shot. It was fun to use...

    only for braindead players. i never enjoyed it, it is so cheap.
  • Wasn't it already immune from Scan pulse?

    No, it wasn't.
  • scout is good for flanking up close and ambushing now, scout before allowed me to run around unchecked behind enemy lines before. Now I have to slowly jog everywhere instead
  • was really great hitting an ATST then disappearing from it's sight, only to hit it with ion torp again
  • Ukhupa
    53 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    RyanK388 wrote: »
    scout is good for flanking up close and ambushing now, scout before allowed me to run around unchecked behind enemy lines before. Now I have to slowly jog everywhere instead

    The way people complain one might think that Scout now actually puts a huge neon sign over your soldier's head saying "I'm here!!! Please shoot me!!!". People used Scout a lot because the trait at level 1 gave a considerable bonus, arguably better than all the others, without any effort at all. It became a crutch. Now you have to get 3 kills to make sprinting invisible and it is useless? Useless because now you can't run around without a care in the world and have to actually think about where you can go sprinting and where you can't?

    The jab is not aimed at you directly, RyanK388, but is the impression I've been getting in general from reading all these threads.


  • Malbolzcha
    60 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Ukhupa wrote: »
    The way people complain one might think that Scout now actually puts a huge neon sign over your soldier's head saying "I'm here!!! Please shoot me!!!".
    thats pretty much what lvl3 does. b4 i stopped using it id let myself be killed or kill myself every time i hit lvl3
  • Ukhupa wrote: »
    RyanK388 wrote: »
    scout is good for flanking up close and ambushing now, scout before allowed me to run around unchecked behind enemy lines before. Now I have to slowly jog everywhere instead

    The way people complain one might think that Scout now actually puts a huge neon sign over your soldier's head saying "I'm here!!! Please shoot me!!!". People used Scout a lot because the trait at level 1 gave a considerable bonus, arguably better than all the others, without any effort at all. It became a crutch. Now you have to get 3 kills to make sprinting invisible and it is useless? Useless because now you can't run around without a care in the world and have to actually think about where you can go sprinting and where you can't?

    The jab is not aimed at you directly, RyanK388, but is the impression I've been getting in general from reading all these threads.


    @Ukhupa Wrong, it had the only noticeable trait level 1. Its level 3 bonus was almost useless, because (and this comes from a 10-month Scout user) Scouts rarely take on packs of people. Lots of people used it because, as I said, it had a noticeable level 1 effect and they didn't know what other trait to use - very few used it properly and played to their trait. But now, every trait has a noticeable level 1 effect, that was one of the major features of the update. They brought every trait up to Scout-level usefulness, but lowered Scout back down.

    As for the current Level 3, "puts a huge neon sign over your soldier's head saying "I'm here!!! Please shoot me!!!"" is a pretty accurate description. You made it to level 2, flanked their position, took out a few soldiers who you came across... and now everyone is on alert whenever you get near them. The argument "they think your a trip mine" means nothing, because even if they are expecting a land mine, they are still going to be way more cautious and suspicious. Good players will notice "<Player> has become a master scout" and be even more suspicious
    All I am surrounded by is fear... and dead men.
  • JackTHorn
    3500 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    This trait was my favorite trait in this game. But now it's just absolute ****.

    What they need to do to make it good again is to swap trait levels 1 & 2 and also give a new trait level 3 effect. Possibly immunity to scan pulse?
    First, it's not a bad or useless trait -- it has simply ceased to be godlike. When they evaluated things, they found that well over 80% of players were using Scout, because the advantage it gave was way above any other Trait, especially at level 1. So they fixed it. Now it's balanced like the other ones. Just think more, and adjust your habits. Kill 3 enemies and you can sprint all you like.

    Ukhupa wrote: »
    Now you have to get 3 kills to make sprinting invisible and it is useless? Useless because now you can't run around without a care in the world and have to actually think about where you can go sprinting and where you can't?
    Exactly.

    Ukhupa wrote: »
    The way people complain one might think that Scout now actually puts a huge neon sign over your soldier's head saying "I'm here!!! Please shoot me!!!".
    Malbolzcha wrote: »
    thats pretty much what lvl3 does. b4 i stopped using it id let myself be killed or kill myself every time i hit lvl3
    You should start laying more trip mines in the area, give them false positives. They think there's a Scout, go looking, can't fine one. They find a trip mine, next time their radar fuzzed out they think it's just a trip mine... but then there you are.
  • @LysdexicsUntied I agree with your initial point. I always thought that "Kills resets heat" was an odd choice and not suited for a stealthy character.

    As for the last part, good players will become more aware of their surroundings and if they have Scan Pulse then all sneaking attempts have outright failed. But let's be honest. This is not something that happens 100% of the time. Also, I would expect a competent Scout to know where they are moving and to have a target singled out in advance instead of running around randomnly hoping they catch someone unawares. Knowledge of the map and the flow of battle pays dividends here.

    If a Lvl 3 Scout can bring some allies along they can really catch people offguard and do some real damage. Players may expect a Scout, but a whole party of enemies?
  • Ukhupa wrote: »
    @LysdexicsUntied I agree with your initial point. I always thought that "Kills resets heat" was an odd choice and not suited for a stealthy character.

    As for the last part, good players will become more aware of their surroundings and if they have Scan Pulse then all sneaking attempts have outright failed. But let's be honest. This is not something that happens 100% of the time. Also, I would expect a competent Scout to know where they are moving and to have a target singled out in advance instead of running around randomnly hoping they catch someone unawares. Knowledge of the map and the flow of battle pays dividends here.

    If a Lvl 3 Scout can bring some allies along they can really catch people offguard and do some real damage. Players may expect a Scout, but a whole party of enemies?

    @Ukhupa Scan pulse has always been the counter for Scout, I don't have a problem with that. But most people don't carry that, and very few people would use a scan pulse if they weren't;t alerted to my presence. Scout is used for flanking, no one uses a Scan pulse in their half of the map unless there is a red flash on the minimal - or, now, if their radar suddenly goes dead... See the problem there?

    As for going in groups, I've never thought about that. That would be great for a squad. But how do you expect a lone player to convince, without any communication, a pack of people who have no idea you are a scout to bunch up and follow an indirect route to the enemies? I say 'indirect' because if you are expected to run on the frontline leading the team's assault as a scout, then thats is exactly what is wrong with the changes made to the trait.

    And as for knowledge of the map, nothing required more of that than the original Scout. That was how I played, by knowing what each red flash meant. Yes a competent Scout would have to know where they are going, but right now the only window you have to "scout" your way to where you want to go is between your 3rd and 6th kill.
    All I am surrounded by is fear... and dead men.
  • @Ukhupa While we're talking about Scout level 3 though, how would you feel about Level 3 becoming one or multiple (not sure how it would balance out) of:
    • Turrets and droids take 50% longer to lock on.
    • Turrets and droids can not lock on from more than 50 metres (or another distance, worked out through testing)
    • Proximity bombs do not trigger (probably OP)/proximity bombs' detection radius is decreased by 25% for Scouts (i.e. The proximity bomb will trigger when normal person is 2 metres away, but only 1.5 metres away for Scouts)

    I fell like this would be a far more effective, useful and Scout-like ability for a Scout
    All I am surrounded by is fear... and dead men.
  • People used scout because of beserker/bacta combo(extreme fire power,defense and healing),the only thing capable of killing them was a melee hit from behind.
  • JackTHorn wrote: »
    You should start laying more trip mines in the area, give them false positives. They think there's a Scout, go looking, can't fine one. They find a trip mine, next time their radar fuzzed out they think it's just a trip mine... but then there you are.
    why the hell would i gimp myself on my loadout by carrying useless trip mines?
  • Ukhupa wrote: »
    RyanK388 wrote: »
    scout is good for flanking up close and ambushing now, scout before allowed me to run around unchecked behind enemy lines before. Now I have to slowly jog everywhere instead

    The way people complain one might think that Scout now actually puts a huge neon sign over your soldier's head saying "I'm here!!! Please shoot me!!!". People used Scout a lot because the trait at level 1 gave a considerable bonus, arguably better than all the others, without any effort at all. It became a crutch. Now you have to get 3 kills to make sprinting invisible and it is useless? Useless because now you can't run around without a care in the world and have to actually think about where you can go sprinting and where you can't?

    The jab is not aimed at you directly, RyanK388, but is the impression I've been getting in general from reading all these threads.


    The problem with Scout is simple, it's level one benefit is mostly negligible and it's level three benefit is often more of a hindrance than a help. All of the other traits provide tangible benefits right out of the gate, we really can't say the same for Scout right now. If they want to put stealth running at level two, fine, but give us some kind of decent benefit at level one, because the your fire not showing on radar is a joke and has never been particularly helpful. Even more importantly, give us a level three that isn't a beacon letting people know that a scout is nearby.

    People talking about how a level three scout can benefit his teammates aren't entirely wrong, but that's not how scouts are supposed to operate. And, frankly, in a game like this where you can only coordinate with your teammates if you are in a party, that level of coordination is almost never going to happen anyway.

    As for people telling us just to walk to avoid detection, no duh, that's a smart move regardless of the trait you have equipped. The problem is, you don't need the Scout Trait to do that. It's better to equip another trait that gives you actual benefits regardless of its level of the trait and then play carefully. The nerfing of the Scout Trait hasn't forced me to stop flanking altogether, but it has gotten me to do it more slowly and with other traits equipped as there is very little benefit in equipping it in its current state.
    #JustSayNoToReyLo
  • The problem with Scout is simple, it's level one benefit is mostly negligible and it's level three benefit is often more of a hindrance than a help. All of the other traits provide tangible benefits right out of the gate, we really can't say the same for Scout right now. If they want to put stealth running at level two, fine, but give us some kind of decent benefit at level one, because the your fire not showing on radar is a joke and has never been particularly helpful. Even more importantly, give us a level three that isn't a beacon letting people know that a scout is nearby.

    People talking about how a level three scout can benefit his teammates aren't entirely wrong, but that's not how scouts are supposed to operate. And, frankly, in a game like this where you can only coordinate with your teammates if you are in a party, that level of coordination is almost never going to happen anyway.

    As for people telling us just to walk to avoid detection, no duh, that's a smart move regardless of the trait you have equipped. The problem is, you don't need the Scout Trait to do that. It's better to equip another trait that gives you actual benefits regardless of its level of the trait and then play carefully. The nerfing of the Scout Trait hasn't forced me to stop flanking altogether, but it has gotten me to do it more slowly and with other traits equipped as there is very little benefit in equipping it in its current state.
    pretty much the same thing i said in the other thread. problem is people dont wanna hear that. they think its "balanced" now. personally i think its garbage and the 2nd worst trait in the game

  • @Admiral_Petty @Malbolzcha Almost always, the people who say that Scout is now fair and balanced are the people who simply didn't like Scout tactics, or never used it for what it was meant to be used for
    All I am surrounded by is fear... and dead men.
  • It was overused. Simple as that.

    Getting 3 kills in a row isn't difficult
    Official member of The Second Hand Club™

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  • It was overused. Simple as that.

    Getting 3 kills in a row isn't difficult

    Yet another post ignoring the whole issue. Depressingly common.
    @Admiral_Petty @Malbolzcha Almost always, the people who say that Scout is now fair and balanced are the people who simply didn't like Scout tactics, or never used it for what it was meant to be used for

    Indeed.
    Malbolzcha wrote: »
    The problem with Scout is simple, it's level one benefit is mostly negligible and it's level three benefit is often more of a hindrance than a help. All of the other traits provide tangible benefits right out of the gate, we really can't say the same for Scout right now. If they want to put stealth running at level two, fine, but give us some kind of decent benefit at level one, because the your fire not showing on radar is a joke and has never been particularly helpful. Even more importantly, give us a level three that isn't a beacon letting people know that a scout is nearby.

    People talking about how a level three scout can benefit his teammates aren't entirely wrong, but that's not how scouts are supposed to operate. And, frankly, in a game like this where you can only coordinate with your teammates if you are in a party, that level of coordination is almost never going to happen anyway.

    As for people telling us just to walk to avoid detection, no duh, that's a smart move regardless of the trait you have equipped. The problem is, you don't need the Scout Trait to do that. It's better to equip another trait that gives you actual benefits regardless of its level of the trait and then play carefully. The nerfing of the Scout Trait hasn't forced me to stop flanking altogether, but it has gotten me to do it more slowly and with other traits equipped as there is very little benefit in equipping it in its current state.
    pretty much the same thing i said in the other thread. problem is people dont wanna hear that. they think its "balanced" now. personally i think its garbage and the 2nd worst trait in the game

    What could be less useful than Scout in it's current form?
    #JustSayNoToReyLo
  • At least they could have made the walking speed faster at rank 1 (like 25-30% faster) instead of the useless gunfire not showing on the map.
    I'd play with scout again if they buff the walking speed.
  • Sbroffage wrote: »
    At least they could have made the walking speed faster at rank 1 (like 25-30% faster) instead of the useless gunfire not showing on the map.
    I'd play with scout again if they buff the walking speed.

    That is a much more sensible bonus for trait level one.
    #JustSayNoToReyLo
  • It was overused. Simple as that.

    Getting 3 kills in a row isn't difficult

    @Alan_Ackbar It was overused, and it was only overused because there were no other traits worth using. Now the only trait that truly is a joke is a Scout itself. No, 3 kills is not hard. But Scout is the only trait where 3 kills is required for it to be useful. Beserkers run head on into the frontline, their trait kicks in immediately. Sharpshooters sit at the back with T-21B',s trait kicks in straight away. Bodyguards storm the frontline, trait kicks in straight away (in fact, even at level 1, BG adds one extra shot to kill to almost every gun). Scout? Yes it was overused, but only because it was USEFUL. Now they all have benefits, and only Scout is suffering.
    Sbroffage wrote: »
    At least they could have made the walking speed faster at rank 1 (like 25-30% faster) instead of the useless gunfire not showing on the map.
    I'd play with scout again if they buff the walking speed.

    @Sbroffage To much like Escape Artist. Faster movement actually throws off my aim as well, actually. It's a very easy fix - restore level 1 and 2, and come up with something new for Level 3
    All I am surrounded by is fear... and dead men.
  • Scout is good where it's at. None of the other traits give you any real advantage until level 2. Berzerker and sharpshooter's 15% increase at level 1 only affects 3 blasters. Scout at least gives an advantage to everyone. Don't see blaster fire. Then it's level 2 when the advantage can be seen and scouts level 2 is way better than the other traits. Again berzerker and sharpshooter only affects about half of the blasters time to kill. It was used by too many, that was the basis for most of the nerfs in this game and scout is no different. Only the jump pack is allowed to be used by that many people and escape any kind of balancing.
  • Sbroffage
    737 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    mega8deth8 wrote: »
    Scout is good where it's at. None of the other traits give you any real advantage until level 2. Berzerker and sharpshooter's 15% increase at level 1 only affects 3 blasters

    Utter ****.
    They affect enormously the ttk/btk at distance.
    A280C normally does 25damage only if your target is 10m or less from you.
    With berserker/sharpshooter lv1 you still do 25 damage at 22m. HUGE difference, you can have the same ttk at more than double the distance.
    Quit spreading disinformation, 15% extra damage does little only if you are already at the minimum range, otherwise is a pretty noticeable bonus. Rank 2 and rank 3 are ridiculously good, not on the bodyguard level (mostly thanks to bacta bomb) but still pretty big (rank 3 is op as hell).

    As for the speed bonus I was proposing that because it's quite obvious that they don't want to reverse rank 1 and rank 2 of scout trait, so I'm not going to waste my time hoping that and the walk speed upgrade seemed a nice change.
  • Scout trait 1 is just a walk in the park,seriously you have to walk until level 2 lol.
  • Scout trait 1 is just a walk in the park,seriously you have to walk until level 2 lol.

    Yep, that's why buffing the walk speed doesn't sound so bad imho. Escape artist is about the sprint speed so it wouldn't be a trait duplicate.
  • Bring back the old scout. I need my sneaky back.
  • Sbroffage wrote: »
    Scout trait 1 is just a walk in the park,seriously you have to walk until level 2 lol.

    Yep, that's why buffing the walk speed doesn't sound so bad imho. Escape artist is about the sprint speed so it wouldn't be a trait duplicate.

    Maybe they should just put it back the way it was.
  • @Ukhupa how would you feel about Scout Level 3 becoming one or multiple (not sure how it would balance out) of:
    • Turrets and droids take 50% longer to lock on.
    • Turrets and droids can not lock on from more than 50 metres (or another distance, worked out through testing)
    • Proximity bombs do not trigger (probably OP)/proximity bombs' detection radius is decreased by 25% for Scouts (i.e. The proximity bomb will trigger when normal person is 2 metres away, but only 1.5 metres away for Scouts)
    One of those for level 3 wouldn't be bad. I like the first one the most. Not totally fitting, but not bad. Or being invisible to Scan Pulse at L3 might be good. I agree that the current L3 Scout perk is not the best. Radar interference would make more sense for a new trait, a Hacker/Slicer trait maybe. But it's not the end of the world.

    And my main dissent here is that I don't think it was good when L1 Scout allowed invisible Sprinting and L2 allowed firing. And I speak as someone who used Scout 90% of the time. It makes more sense to reverse it. And all it means is you have to think a little more, or just get 3 kills and you're back where you want to be.

    Sbroffage wrote: »
    At least they could have made the walking speed faster at rank 1 (like 25-30% faster) instead of the useless gunfire not showing on the map.
    I'd play with scout again if they buff the walking speed.
    The faster walk-speed is a good idea, I think -- but not to REPLACE the blaster-fire being invisible on the mini-map. Becoming visible every time you fire half-defeats the purpose of being a Scout. If anything, add it to the invisible firing -- though that might be too much?
  • Sbroffage
    737 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    JackTHorn wrote: »
    The faster walk-speed is a good idea, I think -- but not to REPLACE the blaster-fire being invisible on the mini-map. Becoming visible every time you fire half-defeats the purpose of being a Scout. If anything, add it to the invisible firing -- though that might be too much?

    The exact reason I didn't propose it, but maybe they can add it to the rank 2 (invisible sprint AND fire).



    Maybe they should just put it back the way it was.

    Unfortunately I don't think this is going to happen, my suggested change was based on this "axiom".

  • JackTHorn wrote: »
    The faster walk-speed is a good idea, I think -- but not to REPLACE the blaster-fire being invisible on the mini-map. Becoming visible every time you fire half-defeats the purpose of being a Scout. If anything, add it to the invisible firing -- though that might be too much?
    Sbroffage wrote: »
    The exact reason I didn't propose it, but maybe they can add it to the rank 2 (invisible sprint AND fire).
    Isn't Scout L2 already invisible sprint + invisible fire?
  • quacks4max
    842 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    JackTHorn wrote: »
    JackTHorn wrote: »
    The faster walk-speed is a good idea, I think -- but not to REPLACE the blaster-fire being invisible on the mini-map. Becoming visible every time you fire half-defeats the purpose of being a Scout. If anything, add it to the invisible firing -- though that might be too much?
    Sbroffage wrote: »
    The exact reason I didn't propose it, but maybe they can add it to the rank 2 (invisible sprint AND fire).
    Isn't Scout L2 already invisible sprint + invisible fire?
    nick-young-confused-face-300x256_nqlyaa.png

    my thoughts too haha

    you can still flank and run after you get 3 kills. with the way things are people arent gonna look your direction when you get the jump on them now.

    if you like running so much try escape artist
  • quacks4max wrote: »
    JackTHorn wrote: »
    JackTHorn wrote: »
    The faster walk-speed is a good idea, I think -- but not to REPLACE the blaster-fire being invisible on the mini-map. Becoming visible every time you fire half-defeats the purpose of being a Scout. If anything, add it to the invisible firing -- though that might be too much?
    Sbroffage wrote: »
    The exact reason I didn't propose it, but maybe they can add it to the rank 2 (invisible sprint AND fire).
    Isn't Scout L2 already invisible sprint + invisible fire?
    nick-young-confused-face-300x256_nqlyaa.png

    my thoughts too haha

    you can still flank and run after you get 3 kills. with the way things are people arent gonna look your direction when you get the jump on them now.

    if you like running so much try escape artist

    @quacks4max No L1 is invisible firing, L2 is invisible walking. He's saying make L1 walking speed buff, and make L2 invisible Walking and firing. No invisibility for anything on L1
    All I am surrounded by is fear... and dead men.
  • What could be less useful than Scout in it's current form?
    survivalist
  • It's useless now.
    giphy.gif
    Palpatine may or may not be homosexual.
  • Getting 3 kills in a row isn't difficult
    u do know that theres a crapton of people who cant right? sad, but true.
  • quacks4max wrote: »
    JackTHorn wrote: »
    JackTHorn wrote: »
    The faster walk-speed is a good idea, I think -- but not to REPLACE the blaster-fire being invisible on the mini-map. Becoming visible every time you fire half-defeats the purpose of being a Scout. If anything, add it to the invisible firing -- though that might be too much?
    Sbroffage wrote: »
    The exact reason I didn't propose it, but maybe they can add it to the rank 2 (invisible sprint AND fire).
    Isn't Scout L2 already invisible sprint + invisible fire?
    nick-young-confused-face-300x256_nqlyaa.png

    my thoughts too haha

    you can still flank and run after you get 3 kills. with the way things are people arent gonna look your direction when you get the jump on them now.

    if you like running so much try escape artist

    @quacks4max No L1 is invisible firing, L2 is invisible walking. He's saying make L1 walking speed buff, and make L2 invisible Walking and firing. No invisibility for anything on L1

    @LsydexicsUnited im just saying getting to level 2 gives you the same upgrades with old scout and new scout trait.

    You don't start with invisible running like before but you work your way up by killing 3 people which shouldn't be hard anyways since your shots don't show up on radar to start with anyways... once you're level 3 you takes away the entire enemy teams radar, you're preactially a "counter Javier"

    If you're asking for a speed buff that's exactly what escape artist gives you... escape artist makes you as fast as greedo
  • LysdexicsUntied
    2034 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Malbolzcha wrote: »
    Getting 3 kills in a row isn't difficult
    u do know that theres a crapton of people who cant right? sad, but true.
    @Malbolzcha Oh, I've actually never thought of that. Another reason why L1 should be made usable again.
    quacks4max wrote: »
    @LsydexicsUnited im just saying getting to level 2 gives you the same upgrades with old scout and new scout trait.

    You don't start with invisible running like before but you work your way up by killing 3 people which shouldn't be hard anyways since your shots don't show up on radar to start with anyways... once you're level 3 you takes away the entire enemy teams radar, you're preactially a "counter Javier"

    If you're asking for a speed buff that's exactly what escape artist gives you... escape artist makes you as fast as greedo

    @quacks4max Yes, and I would still be willing to use Scout because I don't find it hard to get 3 kills. The reason I've been droning on about their murder of Scout is because L3 backtracks and defeats the purpose of Scout, and because Scout was the only trait to get hurt. They brought all the traits up to Scout's level, but then sent Scout down. If the idea was to stop all the people using Scout by default, then they either should have nerfed Scout OR buffed all other traits - they shouldn't have done both.

    And I'm not actually keen on the speed buff by the way, I was just clarifying @Sbroffage 's point.
    All I am surrounded by is fear... and dead men.
  • like i said b4
    lvl1 scout is unnecessary and negligible bonus. if youre sneaking past the enemy youre not gonna fire anyway and give urself away unless u have to.
    lvl2 is the reason u use it but a lot of people cant get enough kills to get lvl2
    lvl3 scout gives u away and defeats the whole purpose of the trait

    therefore, it is garbage. end of story
  • Ukhupa
    53 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    @LysdexicsUntied My proposal for Level 3 Scout would be something along the lines of helping you always stay on top of enemies like say, improved cooldown on Scan Pulse (or having it also detect droids and turrents) and Scout Pistol or a higher chance of getting Viper droids or R5-D4 while at Level 3. To be honest, moving undetected is already good enough and adding more stuff would just take us back where we were pre-Death Star.

    I also think that people underestimate the usefulness of weapon fire not showing on the radar. Pre-Death Star you could run all you want undetected at Level 1, yes, but let's say you snuck behind enemy lines. If you start shooting the place as a Level 1 Scout, lo and behold, your enemies can now see bright red flashes in their radar behind them which means that basically you just gave away your position unless you got behind everyone and dispatched them with melee attacks.

    Right now, sure you have to take it slower but you can start dispatching the rear guard with your weapons without alerting their teammates.

    But in the end, though, these are just hypothetical scenarios. I can't account for all the different ways people play. For what its worth, pre-Death Star, I always tried to be sneaky when using Scout.
  • i don't think it makes much of a difference, i was running scout the whole time to the change.
    not using it now, and still killing unsuspecting players even with radar showing. i thought being off the radar was an advantage, but it seems just as easy to kill while being on it.
  • Ukhupa wrote: »
    @LysdexicsUntied I agree with your initial point. I always thought that "Kills resets heat" was an odd choice and not suited for a stealthy character.

    As for the last part, good players will become more aware of their surroundings and if they have Scan Pulse then all sneaking attempts have outright failed. But let's be honest. This is not something that happens 100% of the time. Also, I would expect a competent Scout to know where they are moving and to have a target singled out in advance instead of running around randomnly hoping they catch someone unawares. Knowledge of the map and the flow of battle pays dividends here.

    If a Lvl 3 Scout can bring some allies along they can really catch people offguard and do some real damage. Players may expect a Scout, but a whole party of enemies?

    @Ukhupa Scan pulse has always been the counter for Scout, I don't have a problem with that. But most people don't carry that, and very few people would use a scan pulse if they weren't;t alerted to my presence. Scout is used for flanking, no one uses a Scan pulse in their half of the map unless there is a red flash on the minimal - or, now, if their radar suddenly goes dead... See the problem there?

    As for going in groups, I've never thought about that. That would be great for a squad. But how do you expect a lone player to convince, without any communication, a pack of people who have no idea you are a scout to bunch up and follow an indirect route to the enemies? I say 'indirect' because if you are expected to run on the frontline leading the team's assault as a scout, then thats is exactly what is wrong with the changes made to the trait.

    And as for knowledge of the map, nothing required more of that than the original Scout. That was how I played, by knowing what each red flash meant. Yes a competent Scout would have to know where they are going, but right now the only window you have to "scout" your way to where you want to go is between your 3rd and 6th kill.

    To the last: why not just pay attention to where the assault teams are headed, get there first and jam the enemy radar right before the assault team strikes?

    It requires a great deal more thought as to positioning than if you had voip, true. But it's not like you need it to still utilize the radar jamming to the benefit of the team.

    That said I think level 3 should project a scout binocular like cone effect in front of you that marks all enemies for your whole team to see. More useful imo to the team than radar jamming.
  • Ukhupa
    53 posts Member
    edited October 2016

    That said I think level 3 should project a scout binocular like cone effect in front of you that marks all enemies for your whole team to see. More useful imo to the team than radar jamming.

    There's a huge risk here. Yes, it is useful, but then there's nothing to stop a Level 3 scout from basically camping all game and give themselves and their teammates free permanent wallhacks as long as they are not killed and sent back to Level 2.

    I think even just marking visible enemies all the time, instead of a scan pulse-like effect is too much. Was this what you meant?

  • Ukhupa wrote: »
    @LysdexicsUntied My proposal for Level 3 Scout would be something along the lines of helping you always stay on top of enemies like say, improved cooldown on Scan Pulse (or having it also detect droids and turrents) and Scout Pistol or a higher chance of getting Viper droids or R5-D4 while at Level 3. To be honest, moving undetected is already good enough and adding more stuff would just take us back where we were pre-Death Star.

    I also think that people underestimate the usefulness of weapon fire not showing on the radar. Pre-Death Star you could run all you want undetected at Level 1, yes, but let's say you snuck behind enemy lines. If you start shooting the place as a Level 1 Scout, lo and behold, your enemies can now see bright red flashes in their radar behind them which means that basically you just gave away your position unless you got behind everyone and dispatched them with melee attacks.

    Right now, sure you have to take it slower but you can start dispatching the rear guard with your weapons without alerting their teammates.

    But in the end, though, these are just hypothetical scenarios. I can't account for all the different ways people play. For what its worth, pre-Death Star, I always tried to be sneaky when using Scout.

    @Ukhupa I agree L3 should be changed to something new - and I would love it to buff the scout pistol, given how much I use it - but they can't make a trait buff specific star cards, because what if you don't have them equipped? As for the droids, that would be great, except you can only have 1 active at a time - so getting them more frequently wouldn't necessarily be a good thing.

    Also, yes I did find L2 to be very useful when I flanked, for example on Cargo. But flanking now takes a lot longer, meaning that the L1 buff now is only really useful at L2.
    hotdogs wrote: »
    i don't think it makes much of a difference, i was running scout the whole time to the change.
    not using it now, and still killing unsuspecting players even with radar showing. i thought being off the radar was an advantage, but it seems just as easy to kill while being on it.

    @ I have noticed that people seem to check their minimal a lot less often than I do. I've been sporting Bodyguard lately, and it shocks me sometimes when I run up behind someone for a good 10 seconds and no one notices.
    All I am surrounded by is fear... and dead men.
  • LysdexicsUntied
    2034 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Ukhupa wrote: »
    @LysdexicsUntied I agree with your initial point. I always thought that "Kills resets heat" was an odd choice and not suited for a stealthy character.

    As for the last part, good players will become more aware of their surroundings and if they have Scan Pulse then all sneaking attempts have outright failed. But let's be honest. This is not something that happens 100% of the time. Also, I would expect a competent Scout to know where they are moving and to have a target singled out in advance instead of running around randomnly hoping they catch someone unawares. Knowledge of the map and the flow of battle pays dividends here.

    If a Lvl 3 Scout can bring some allies along they can really catch people offguard and do some real damage. Players may expect a Scout, but a whole party of enemies?

    @Ukhupa Scan pulse has always been the counter for Scout, I don't have a problem with that. But most people don't carry that, and very few people would use a scan pulse if they weren't;t alerted to my presence. Scout is used for flanking, no one uses a Scan pulse in their half of the map unless there is a red flash on the minimal - or, now, if their radar suddenly goes dead... See the problem there?

    As for going in groups, I've never thought about that. That would be great for a squad. But how do you expect a lone player to convince, without any communication, a pack of people who have no idea you are a scout to bunch up and follow an indirect route to the enemies? I say 'indirect' because if you are expected to run on the frontline leading the team's assault as a scout, then thats is exactly what is wrong with the changes made to the trait.

    And as for knowledge of the map, nothing required more of that than the original Scout. That was how I played, by knowing what each red flash meant. Yes a competent Scout would have to know where they are going, but right now the only window you have to "scout" your way to where you want to go is between your 3rd and 6th kill.

    To the last: why not just pay attention to where the assault teams are headed, get there first and jam the enemy radar right before the assault team strikes?

    It requires a great deal more thought as to positioning than if you had voip, true. But it's not like you need it to still utilize the radar jamming to the benefit of the team.

    That said I think level 3 should project a scout binocular like cone effect in front of you that marks all enemies for your whole team to see. More useful imo to the team than radar jamming.

    @Captain_Apollo38 This is the trouble with explaining this, I'm assuming you weren't a regular Scout user? Yes this is a viable tactic - but it is not, and never was, what Scout should be. It should be a constantly moving, dynamic, get-in-get-out attacker, never in the same place for too long and never noticed. If you get noticed, the odds are you will die. Now, getting noticed is almost guaranteed to happen thanks to the radar jamming. Yes, it provides a team benefit, but so did the old Scout gameplay - different benefit, sure, but helpful nonetheless. That is a great tactic, but its not a Scout's tactic.

    That L3 buff is a nice idea, though it would be incredibly powerful and would inevitably get nerfed. Original idea though.
    All I am surrounded by is fear... and dead men.
  • hotdogs wrote: »
    i don't think it makes much of a difference, i was running scout the whole time to the change.
    not using it now, and still killing unsuspecting players even with radar showing. i thought being off the radar was an advantage, but it seems just as easy to kill while being on it.

    Yeah i don't think it really makes a difference either. I'm still getting the same amount of kills before if not more. I guess I don't really use scout as a crutch like others.
    Malbolzcha wrote: »
    like i said b4
    lvl1 scout is unnecessary and negligible bonus. if youre sneaking past the enemy youre not gonna fire anyway and give urself away unless u have to.
    lvl2 is the reason u use it but a lot of people cant get enough kills to get lvl2
    lvl3 scout gives u away and defeats the whole purpose of the trait

    therefore, it is garbage. end of story

    And level 3 isn't garbage you're a walking counter uav for your teammates. Instead of you alone being invisible to the team you're making your whole team invisible. If you're at lvl 3 and a heros next to you, the enemy won't be able to tell. If your next to your teammates a and they're running or shooting the enemy doesn't have a clue that that's popping up on the radar

    It's only garbage since the user can't manage to stay alive even with the enemy radars being jammed I guess...
  • Scout needs to be reverted or changed completely. Scout was only used because every other trait was useless. You can bet that if they revert scout, people still won't use it as much now that the other traits have a use. And every other trait is progressive, they increase their respective values.. Scout is just a random bag of stuff.
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