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I lack imagination - how is the class system not going to ****?

Prev13
Let's just start with the obvious. Battlefield 1 is an unplayable snoozefest - as in TV and WORK are more interesting. Now . . . that is Battlefield 1, so I GUESS class systems by definition don't have to ruin a game (like they did BF1) . . . but how could they go about implementing such a system without destroying the fun?

Seriously. Any ideas? Has anyone seen a class system that made the game more fun, or at least didn't reduce the fun? If so, what game and how did it improve the game play?


And if DICE is monitoring please note, SWBF II cannot be a reskinned BF1 . . . cause I bought both and HAPPILY quit BF1 after 3 weeks and have never picked it up since . . . it is an well made piece of boring junk, that only demonstrates how little attention was given to SWBF 1. The ONLY thing I would ever want to see brought over from BF1 is the STABILITY, NO LAG, and SERVER BROWSER - the rest is useless junk.

Replies

  • Well handled class systems tend to make games more fun as they encourage actual teamwork between the players. Whereas in the current Battlefront we see very little actual teamwork in most matches. Having people fulfill specific roles automatically creates a more cooperative atmosphere. Are there bad games with class systems? Sure, however the announcement of a class system in of itself shouldn't be a cause for worry, if anything, it shows they are trying to address the teamwork problem from the last game.
  • Alvonator
    2510 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    There are big flaws with your argument:

    1) Classes didn't ruin Battlefield 1.
    2) Classes are neither limiting nor 'not fun.'
    3) Battlefield 1 population is quite healthy. Sauce: http://bf1stats.com
  • Alvonator wrote: »
    There is are big flaws with your argument:

    1) Classes didn't ruin Battlefield 1.
    2) Classes are neither limiting nor 'not fun.'
    3) Battlefield 1 population is quite healthy. Sauce: http://bf1stats.com

    PSN: Trooper8059
    "Remember: Your focus determines your reality."
    ezgif_5_a643336582.gif
  • Alvonator
    2510 posts Member
    Alvonator wrote: »
    There is are big flaws with your argument:

    1) Classes didn't ruin Battlefield 1.
    2) Classes are neither limiting nor 'not fun.'
    3) Battlefield 1 population is quite healthy. Sauce: http://bf1stats.com


    Let it be known that Rose Sauce is a delicious delight.
    dsc05640.jpg
  • Alvonator wrote: »
    There is are big flaws with your argument:

    1) Classes didn't ruin Battlefield 1.
    2) Classes are neither limiting nor 'not fun.'
    3) Battlefield 1 population is quite healthy. Sauce: http://bf1stats.com

    Not to mention that all the previous Battlefields used classes as well, and they are fantastic.

    But either way, @fmpauley, classes are great because the restrictions can be tailored to prevent specific load outs. Tell me, did you enjoy people running into you with lvl 3 Bodyguard, Bacta, Adrenaline Stim and then after you get through all 360 of their health they just jump pack to safety? NO? Ah I thought as much. Luckily, even if all those cards are in this game in various forms, there will be no way to use them all together. The classes still allow a significant amount of variation and customisability, but they prevent Attack of the Explosive Shot or Bacta Strikes Back from happening in this game.
    That's not how the Force works...
  • Lonnisity
    1484 posts Member
    fmpauley wrote: »
    Battlefield 1 is an unplayable snoozefest

    Lost interest in your argument with the second sentence. Battlefield 1 is a fantastic game.
    "Yeah, I'm responsible these days. It's the price you pay for being successful."
  • Yeah idk dude Battlefield 1 is a pretty fun game imo
  • Lonnisity wrote: »
    fmpauley wrote: »
    Battlefield 1 is an unplayable snoozefest

    Lost interest in your argument with the second sentence. Battlefield 1 is a fantastic game.

    As well as the 4 games which preceded it... All of which used classes...
    That's not how the Force works...
  • Gotta go with the op on this one. Different strokes m8.
  • Frix
    626 posts Member
    Well I would post something in depth about how classes improve the game and variety but it looks like that's already been done.
  • rollind24
    2290 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    I have no problem moving to classes but I keep laughing at the people that are saying it is going to promote teamwork in the new StarWars game. I can't wait for the threads complaining about all the casuals attracted to the name star wars that all they want to do is go pew pew. Honestly what I see promoting more teamwork in BF1 is the squad system rather than the class system.
  • Alvonator
    2510 posts Member
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I have no problem moving to classes but I keep laughing at the people that are saying it is going to promote teamwork in the new StarWars game. I can't wait for the threads complaining about all the casuals attracted to the name star wars that all they want to do is go pew pew. Honestly what I see promoting more teamwork in BF1 is the squad system rather than the class system.

    It does promote teamwork though.....

    Every class has strengths and weaknesses, they must support each other to succeed.. If I play Heavy, I expect to support teammates, and I will expect Assault players to take out vehicles.
  • rollind24
    2290 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    Alvonator wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I have no problem moving to classes but I keep laughing at the people that are saying it is going to promote teamwork in the new StarWars game. I can't wait for the threads complaining about all the casuals attracted to the name star wars that all they want to do is go pew pew. Honestly what I see promoting more teamwork in BF1 is the squad system rather than the class system.

    It does promote teamwork though.....

    Every class has strengths and weaknesses, they must support each other to succeed.. If I play Heavy, I expect to support teammates, and I will expect Assault players to take out vehicles.

    You expect to much. I also expect players in the first game to understand objectives but that didn't work out so well.

    I'm not knocking classes. I just have little faith in the playerbase.
  • Only time your gonna get consistant teamwork is in party's/clans or comp. I'm saying it now, it's nothing more than wishful thinking. Do you people realize how many under 15 will be playing this game?
  • rollind24
    2290 posts Member
    Only time your gonna get consistant teamwork is in party's/clans or comp. I'm saying it now, it's nothing more than wishful thinking. Do you people realize how many under 15 will be playing this game?

    +1
  • Why won't it suck? because it's not star cards is a good starting point as to why. Ill take limits in Jetpacks and bacta bombing alone as a reason to stick with classes, not to mention its generally more fun of a system if you look at any MP/Co-op based shooter
  • Alvonator
    2510 posts Member
    rollind24 wrote: »
    Alvonator wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I have no problem moving to classes but I keep laughing at the people that are saying it is going to promote teamwork in the new StarWars game. I can't wait for the threads complaining about all the casuals attracted to the name star wars that all they want to do is go pew pew. Honestly what I see promoting more teamwork in BF1 is the squad system rather than the class system.

    It does promote teamwork though.....

    Every class has strengths and weaknesses, they must support each other to succeed.. If I play Heavy, I expect to support teammates, and I will expect Assault players to take out vehicles.

    You expect to much. I also expect players in the first game to understand objectives but that didn't work out so well.

    I didn't say that classes would 100% cause teamwork. I said "promote," meaning that players are encouraged to work together due to distinct class weaknesses and advantages, but it does not automatically cause everyone to work together, thats impossible.

    Point is, a team that works together will be better than the enemy. Classes encourage and promote, but do not make everyone PTFO or work together, that is the distinction. I can say for sure that its a better system than Star Cards though.
  • Only time your gonna get consistant teamwork is in party's/clans or comp. I'm saying it now, it's nothing more than wishful thinking. Do you people realize how many under 15 will be playing this game?

    This worries me immensely. They need to neutralise all the massive advantage of playing in a party, not add more
    That's not how the Force works...
  • rollind24
    2290 posts Member
    Alvonator wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    Alvonator wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I have no problem moving to classes but I keep laughing at the people that are saying it is going to promote teamwork in the new StarWars game. I can't wait for the threads complaining about all the casuals attracted to the name star wars that all they want to do is go pew pew. Honestly what I see promoting more teamwork in BF1 is the squad system rather than the class system.

    It does promote teamwork though.....

    Every class has strengths and weaknesses, they must support each other to succeed.. If I play Heavy, I expect to support teammates, and I will expect Assault players to take out vehicles.

    You expect to much. I also expect players in the first game to understand objectives but that didn't work out so well.

    I didn't say that classes would 100% cause teamwork. I said "promote," meaning that players are encouraged to work together due to distinct class weaknesses and advantages, but it does not automatically cause everyone to work together, thats impossible.

    Point is, a team that works together will be better than the enemy. Classes encourage and promote, but do not make everyone PTFO or work together, that is the distinction. I can say for sure that its a better system than Star Cards though.

    Yea I'm for classes more for what @Strogg1980 mentioned if it helps limit some of the abilities. I'm not in the Star Card camp. I did play the last game for a year and a half and enjoyed it though. Hopefully they balance the classes enough so one is not vastly outnumbering the rest in any given match.
  • Only time your gonna get consistant teamwork is in party's/clans or comp. I'm saying it now, it's nothing more than wishful thinking. Do you people realize how many under 15 will be playing this game?

    Actually yeah, and I bought another class based shooter by EA in order to play with younger ones in the house, namely Plants vs Zombies GW2. That game has a very young player base and the sense of teamwork in that game far surpasses what we have in the current Battlefront. Despite being a kiddy game, I would actually say it's better than the current Battlefront, due in large part to the class system. A good class system encourages you to be a team player whether you know it or not.
  • Frix
    626 posts Member
    fmpauley wrote: »
    BF1 did not have team work when I played it. What I did notice was that there was no way to know the outcome of the game, winning and losing seemed like a total surprise and was something there was very little control over. SWBF1 felt like one person could make a difference, and especially in Cargo. I can't imagine Cargo in BF1. I like the arcade feel, the 1v1 matchups. BF1 is just shot someone, get shot in the back, respawn; shot someone get shot from the side . . . you rarely ever see your attacker, and almost never get to square up on them.

    The class system in BF1 always left me feeling like I picked the wrong class. It was so rare that I thought, cool, I'm ready for this, I have just the right load out. In the end I could only choose Medic or Assault if I wanted to keep playing. And my teammates always seemed to be the wrong class too. A bunch of Medics versus a tank . . . what fun! It was the classes of BF1 that made me appreciate the star card system, and realize that SWBF1, for all its faults, was a superior game for having fun.

    As for team work . . . really. No one can believe that. That is NEVER going to happen. It's not even a possibility. EXCEPT for clans. Fortunately, I just joined up with some 'bad hombres" so I'll have fun abusing the 95% of the playerbase that will never ever ever ever work as a team. When was the last time a player you didn't know hang behind you while you were a hero and constantly heal you with bacta . . . stop kidding yourself there is no teamwork likely coming from classes.

    Is there a game were classes equal team work (don't day BF1 cause then I'll know you're ****'ing)? What was the relationship between the classes that made that happen?

    Probably couldn't tell wether you would win or not because you didn't PTFO. I actually unlocked the PTFO skin for the mp18 so don't question my dedication to playing the objective :D
  • fmpauley wrote: »
    BF1 did not have team work when I played it. What I did notice was that there was no way to know the outcome of the game, winning and losing seemed like a total surprise and was something there was very little control over. SWBF1 felt like one person could make a difference, and especially in Cargo. I can't imagine Cargo in BF1. I like the arcade feel, the 1v1 matchups. BF1 is just shot someone, get shot in the back, respawn; shot someone get shot from the side . . . you rarely ever see your attacker, and almost never get to square up on them.

    The class system in BF1 always left me feeling like I picked the wrong class. It was so rare that I thought, cool, I'm ready for this, I have just the right load out. In the end I could only choose Medic or Assault if I wanted to keep playing. And my teammates always seemed to be the wrong class too. A bunch of Medics versus a tank . . . what fun! It was the classes of BF1 that made me appreciate the star card system, and realize that SWBF1, for all its faults, was a superior game for having fun.

    As for team work . . . really. No one can believe that. That is NEVER going to happen. It's not even a possibility. EXCEPT for clans. Fortunately, I just joined up with some 'bad hombres" so I'll have fun abusing the 95% of the playerbase that will never ever ever ever work as a team. When was the last time a player you didn't know hang behind you while you were a hero and constantly heal you with bacta . . . stop kidding yourself there is no teamwork likely coming from classes.

    Is there a game were classes equal team work (don't day BF1 cause then I'll know you're ****'ing)? What was the relationship between the classes that made that happen?

    I can't speak to Battlefield 1 as I haven't played that game, but I've played plenty of other class based shooters where people work as a team simply because that's how they will do best in the matches. A bad class based system in one game isn't an indication that all games with class systems are bad. Like I said in my previous post, a kiddy shooter like Plants vs Zombies had better teamwork than the current Battlefront, and that was due in large part to a well balanced and integrated class system. The current Battlefront on the other hand almost always feels like you are playing by yourself with a bunch of other people who are playing by themselves. Occasionally you get a match with a good team of people who work together, but that is the exception rather than the norm with the Star Card system.
  • Anything is better than Jumpbacta Spam fest 2015.
  • Was editing and think I deleted my original post. Reposting

    BF1 did not have team work when I played it. What I did notice was that there was no way to know the outcome of the game, winning and losing seemed like a total surprise and was something there was very little control over. SWBF1 felt like one person could make a difference, and especially in Cargo. I can't imagine Cargo in BF1. I like the arcade feel, the 1v1 matchups. BF1 is just shot someone, get shot in the back, respawn; shot someone get shot from the side . . . you rarely ever see your attacker, and almost never get to square up on them.

    The class system in BF1 always left me feeling like I picked the wrong class. It was so rare that I thought, cool, I'm ready for this, I have just the right load out. In the end I could only choose Medic or Assault if I wanted to keep playing. And my teammates always seemed to be the wrong class too. A bunch of Medics versus a tank . . . what fun! It was the classes of BF1 that made me appreciate the star card system, and realize that SWBF1, for all its faults, was a superior game for having fun.

    As for team work . . . really. No one can believe that. That is NEVER going to happen. It's not even a possibility. EXCEPT for clans. Fortunately, I just joined up with some 'bad hombres" so I'll have fun abusing the 95% of the playerbase that will never ever ever ever work as a team. When was the last time a player you didn't know hung behind you while you were a hero and constantly healed you with bacta . . . stop kidding yourself there is no teamwork likely coming from classes.

    Is there a game were classes equal team work (don't say BF1 cause then I'll know you're ****.'ing)? What was the relationship between the classes that made that happen?
  • rollind24
    2290 posts Member
    @fmpauley I thought I was going crazy trying to find the post they were quoting lol
  • Frix wrote: »

    Probably couldn't tell wether you would win or not because you didn't PTFO. I actually unlocked the PTFO skin for the mp18 so don't question my dedication to playing the objective :D

    I was PTO as well as anyone. I spawned to teams near objectives we were trying to take. I jogged to objectives that had no team members and hid nearby so they could spawn on me. If I had anti-tank I took out tanks. If I had med's I dropped boxes anywhere I could. I jumped into boats and took remote locations. And it always seemed like just another drop over Niagara Falls. Like I said, snoozefest. If I can't effect the outcome, then where's my motivation to play? And that is just BF1, I don't think classes had anything to do with the objective mechanics sucking.
  • I absolutely agree with you guys about the spam, I didn't have a problem with star cards though, I have a problem with how there allowed to be used, with no limits. ES, PS, Bacta, Grenades, Pulse, it's just chaos sometimes and all ohk. But what has me worried is having balanced teams, it won't be, all the party's and clans will be playing together, and if they make a battlefield shooter mechanic it will be impossible to be a good lone wolf type player. I also like picking my own loadout, not what EA tells me I should use. Again, I'm just worried it may be dominated by unbalanced teams with clans dominating. There's just to many selfish players in multi player. The campaign looks great though.
  • fmpauley wrote: »
    Let's just start with the obvious. Battlefield 1 is an unplayable snoozefest - as in TV and WORK are more interesting. Now . . . that is Battlefield 1, so I GUESS class systems by definition don't have to ruin a game (like they did BF1) . . . but how could they go about implementing such a system without destroying the fun?

    Seriously. Any ideas? Has anyone seen a class system that made the game more fun, or at least didn't reduce the fun? If so, what game and how did it improve the game play?


    And if DICE is monitoring please note, SWBF II cannot be a reskinned BF1 . . . cause I bought both and HAPPILY quit BF1 after 3 weeks and have never picked it up since . . . it is an well made piece of boring junk, that only demonstrates how little attention was given to SWBF 1. The ONLY thing I would ever want to see brought over from BF1 is the STABILITY, NO LAG, and SERVER BROWSER - the rest is useless junk.

    The class system works great in battlefield 4..The problem with Battlefield I is that it's too casual... Battlefield 4 has a higher learning curve..And dice has confirmed that Battlefront II will have a steeper learning curve along with attachments for your weapons
  • rollind24
    2290 posts Member
    I absolutely agree with you guys about the spam, I didn't have a problem with star cards though, I have a problem with how there allowed to be used, with no limits. ES, PS, Bacta, Grenades, Pulse, it's just chaos sometimes and all ohk. But what has me worried is having balanced teams, it won't be, all the party's and clans will be playing together, and if they make a battlefield shooter mechanic it will be impossible to be a good lone wolf type player. I also like picking my own loadout, not what EA tells me I should use. Again, I'm just worried it may be dominated by unbalanced teams with clans dominating. There's just to many selfish players in multi player. The campaign looks great though.

    I think the simplest way to eliminate the spam in Battlefront 2015 would have been to increase the cool down times. Not sure how that couldn't be implemented.
  • I absolutely agree with you guys about the spam, I didn't have a problem with star cards though, I have a problem with how there allowed to be used, with no limits. ES, PS, Bacta, Grenades, Pulse, it's just chaos sometimes and all ohk. But what has me worried is having balanced teams, it won't be, all the party's and clans will be playing together, and if they make a battlefield shooter mechanic it will be impossible to be a good lone wolf type player. I also like picking my own loadout, not what EA tells me I should use. Again, I'm just worried it may be dominated by unbalanced teams with clans dominating. There's just to many selfish players in multi player. The campaign looks great though.

    Here's the thing about the different blaster options though. In the current Battlefront they have to keep all of the blasters somewhat balanced. So the repeating blasters they have aren't really up to snuff compared to what they would be in other games. In other games, the class with the repeater gets an awesome gun, but that is offset by other factors, things like a larger target profile, not being able to move as fast as the other characters and so on. That creates a more genuine sense of difference between different weapons and load outs. Not that the current Battlefront doesn't have certain situations where some guns work better than others, but the differences aren't nearly as pronounced as they are in other games. So we have all of these blaster options, but almost everyone uses the same few guns in most matches.

    In all honesty, the one mode where the current Battlefront basically has a class system is the Heroes vs Villains mode. There's more of a proper role for each hero to fill, and the best teams are the ones with the people that know how to play their heroes together as a team, compensating for strengths and weaknesses.
  • EvazanJr
    6190 posts Member
    Alvonator wrote: »
    There is are big flaws with your argument:

    1) Classes didn't ruin Battlefield 1.
    2) Classes are neither limiting nor 'not fun.'
    3) Battlefield 1 population is quite healthy. Sauce: http://bf1stats.com

    Not to mention that all the previous Battlefields used classes as well, and they are fantastic.

    But either way, @fmpauley, classes are great because the restrictions can be tailored to prevent specific load outs. Tell me, did you enjoy people running into you with lvl 3 Bodyguard, Bacta, Adrenaline Stim and then after you get through all 360 of their health they just jump pack to safety? NO? Ah I thought as much. Luckily, even if all those cards are in this game in various forms, there will be no way to use them all together. The classes still allow a significant amount of variation and customisability, but they prevent Attack of the Explosive Shot or Bacta Strikes Back from happening in this game.

    I see your point but if they just bothered to balance the game wouldn't that be fixed?

  • The class system works great in battlefield 4..The problem with Battlefield I is that it's too casual... Battlefield 4 has a higher learning curve..And dice has confirmed that Battlefront II will have a steeper learning curve along with attachments for your weapons

    Booooooooo! The BF1 weapons were worthless. Main reason I quit was because I kept working for the next gun in a class only to find out it was not worth the effort. BF1 was like being on an endless treadmill to earn a slightly better stinger pistol! Once I hit level 3 in each of the classes I realized they had tricked me, and I was out. OHK weapons I think are important if you want to have a game a single player can enjoy. Without a OHK weapon you can't be sure that your move to let's say stop an escorted cargo carrier will succeed. You are not likely to survive 2 or 3 v1 engagements either, unless you are shooting them in the back. Powerful weapons with a LOW learning curve are essential to fun.

    I did feel great disappointment when I saw the prepurchase notes about trigger mods on weapons . . . cause you know that equals a **** time. If I could tell the difference in BF1 between the 5 + types of shotguns then perhaps I would have enjoyed having 5 shotguns to choose from . . . but each being so slightly different from the other, it just felt like 5 useless choices. Useless choices = no fun.
  • rollind24 wrote: »
    Alvonator wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I have no problem moving to classes but I keep laughing at the people that are saying it is going to promote teamwork in the new StarWars game. I can't wait for the threads complaining about all the casuals attracted to the name star wars that all they want to do is go pew pew. Honestly what I see promoting more teamwork in BF1 is the squad system rather than the class system.

    It does promote teamwork though.....

    Every class has strengths and weaknesses, they must support each other to succeed.. If I play Heavy, I expect to support teammates, and I will expect Assault players to take out vehicles.

    You expect to much. I also expect players in the first game to understand objectives but that didn't work out so well.

    I'm not knocking classes. I just have little faith in the playerbase.

    Wtb friends to play with pst. Oh wait what? I can play with friends? When did they add that feature? Friends actually working together too? No waaaay!
  • rollind24
    2290 posts Member
    EvazanJr wrote: »
    Alvonator wrote: »
    There is are big flaws with your argument:

    1) Classes didn't ruin Battlefield 1.
    2) Classes are neither limiting nor 'not fun.'
    3) Battlefield 1 population is quite healthy. Sauce: http://bf1stats.com

    Not to mention that all the previous Battlefields used classes as well, and they are fantastic.

    But either way, @fmpauley, classes are great because the restrictions can be tailored to prevent specific load outs. Tell me, did you enjoy people running into you with lvl 3 Bodyguard, Bacta, Adrenaline Stim and then after you get through all 360 of their health they just jump pack to safety? NO? Ah I thought as much. Luckily, even if all those cards are in this game in various forms, there will be no way to use them all together. The classes still allow a significant amount of variation and customisability, but they prevent Attack of the Explosive Shot or Bacta Strikes Back from happening in this game.

    I see your point but if they just bothered to balance the game wouldn't that be fixed?

    It's almost like if Explosive Shot is overpowered in the next game you won't see it anymore because, classes.
  • EvazanJr wrote: »
    Alvonator wrote: »
    There is are big flaws with your argument:

    1) Classes didn't ruin Battlefield 1.
    2) Classes are neither limiting nor 'not fun.'
    3) Battlefield 1 population is quite healthy. Sauce: http://bf1stats.com

    Not to mention that all the previous Battlefields used classes as well, and they are fantastic.

    But either way, @fmpauley, classes are great because the restrictions can be tailored to prevent specific load outs. Tell me, did you enjoy people running into you with lvl 3 Bodyguard, Bacta, Adrenaline Stim and then after you get through all 360 of their health they just jump pack to safety? NO? Ah I thought as much. Luckily, even if all those cards are in this game in various forms, there will be no way to use them all together. The classes still allow a significant amount of variation and customisability, but they prevent Attack of the Explosive Shot or Bacta Strikes Back from happening in this game.

    I see your point but if they just bothered to balance the game wouldn't that be fixed?

    Not for the cards that cause the most problems. Why do you think Bacta, Explosive shot and the rest never got properly balanced? Because it would have required too many complex interactions with the rest o f the game. As an example, take Explosive shot. Its core usage was to take on compact groups of targets. But there was no way they could have made it only usable in those situations, and so it was exploited as a both a damage buff, an aiming assist and a hero-killer. How do you nerf it properly? Well with classes, make it usable only by a Shotgun/very slow-firing weapon class, increase the splash radius and get rid of the damage bonus. Now it can be used to effectively engage multiple targets, but cant be used on a DH-17 or something to just give you no-aim-required death machine.But in a free-choice Star Card system, the only way to make it "fair" is to nerf it so heavily that its only useful if you use the OP load out, which they were trying to get rid of in the first place

    Or take Bacta. The concept isn't horrible, a team assist that requires you to be with your frontline units to be useful. But how it was actaully used, as we all know, was as a get-out-of-jail-free card by Bactaguardstimmers. To "balance" it in BF2015 would have required to slow down the regeneration speed, cap the maximum health it could restore and lengthen the cool-down. But in class setup, simply put it in a Medic class who don't have access to armour and health boosters - they can still use it on themselves to get a small advantage, but they cant access all the other things that made bacta infuriating. So people are more likely to actually use it as a team medic role, not a death-cheating steroid.
    That's not how the Force works...
  • EvazanJr wrote: »
    Alvonator wrote: »
    There is are big flaws with your argument:

    1) Classes didn't ruin Battlefield 1.
    2) Classes are neither limiting nor 'not fun.'
    3) Battlefield 1 population is quite healthy. Sauce: http://bf1stats.com

    Not to mention that all the previous Battlefields used classes as well, and they are fantastic.

    But either way, @fmpauley, classes are great because the restrictions can be tailored to prevent specific load outs. Tell me, did you enjoy people running into you with lvl 3 Bodyguard, Bacta, Adrenaline Stim and then after you get through all 360 of their health they just jump pack to safety? NO? Ah I thought as much. Luckily, even if all those cards are in this game in various forms, there will be no way to use them all together. The classes still allow a significant amount of variation and customisability, but they prevent Attack of the Explosive Shot or Bacta Strikes Back from happening in this game.

    I see your point but if they just bothered to balance the game wouldn't that be fixed?

    Not for the cards that cause the most problems. Why do you think Bacta, Explosive shot and the rest never got properly balanced? Because it would have required too many complex interactions with the rest o f the game. As an example, take Explosive shot. Its core usage was to take on compact groups of targets. But there was no way they could have made it only usable in those situations, and so it was exploited as a both a damage buff, an aiming assist and a hero-killer. How do you nerf it properly? Well with classes, make it usable only by a Shotgun/very slow-firing weapon class, increase the splash radius and get rid of the damage bonus. Now it can be used to effectively engage multiple targets, but cant be used on a DH-17 or something to just give you no-aim-required death machine.But in a free-choice Star Card system, the only way to make it "fair" is to nerf it so heavily that its only useful if you use the OP load out, which they were trying to get rid of in the first place

    Or take Bacta. The concept isn't horrible, a team assist that requires you to be with your frontline units to be useful. But how it was actaully used, as we all know, was as a get-out-of-jail-free card by Bactaguardstimmers. To "balance" it in BF2015 would have required to slow down the regeneration speed, cap the maximum health it could restore and lengthen the cool-down. But in class setup, simply put it in a Medic class who don't have access to armour and health boosters - they can still use it on themselves to get a small advantage, but they cant access all the other things that made bacta infuriating. So people are more likely to actually use it as a team medic role, not a death-cheating steroid.

    +1
  • It's hard to tell how effective these classes will be until we see some gameplay. However, we can hope it solves...

    Meta loadouts that force a lot of players to run the same loadout. I don't want see things like bactazerker in BF2. I'm guessing certain cards/epic abilities will be restricted to certain classes to prevent things like jump sniping, running all explosives, running all healing, pending things like bacta bomb and adrenaline stim are in the next game.

    As far as promoting teamwork, well have to wait and see but I'm not holding my breath. The best to hope for is not seeing nade spam and 3/4 of teams jump packing around doing no-scope 360 trick shots.

  • fmpauley wrote: »

    The class system works great in battlefield 4..The problem with Battlefield I is that it's too casual... Battlefield 4 has a higher learning curve..And dice has confirmed that Battlefront II will have a steeper learning curve along with attachments for your weapons

    Booooooooo! The BF1 weapons were worthless. Main reason I quit was because I kept working for the next gun in a class only to find out it was not worth the effort. BF1 was like being on an endless treadmill to earn a slightly better stinger pistol! Once I hit level 3 in each of the classes I realized they had tricked me, and I was out. OHK weapons I think are important if you want to have a game a single player can enjoy. Without a OHK weapon you can't be sure that your move to let's say stop an escorted cargo carrier will succeed. You are not likely to survive 2 or 3 v1 engagements either, unless you are shooting them in the back. Powerful weapons with a LOW learning curve are essential to fun.

    I did feel great disappointment when I saw the prepurchase notes about trigger mods on weapons . . . cause you know that equals a **** time. If I could tell the difference in BF1 between the 5 + types of shotguns then perhaps I would have enjoyed having 5 shotguns to choose from . . . but each being so slightly different from the other, it just felt like 5 useless choices. Useless choices = no fun.

    If you prefer OHK jumpacking star card bull ****... Stick to the current Battlefront that will never be improved and get no more content.... Battlefront is meant to be a star wars Battlefield...Not call of ****
  • It's hard to tell how effective these classes will be until we see some gameplay. However, we can hope it solves...

    Meta loadouts that force a lot of players to run the same loadout. I don't want see things like bactazerker in BF2. I'm guessing certain cards/epic abilities will be restricted to certain classes to prevent things like jump sniping, running all explosives, running all healing, pending things like bacta bomb and adrenaline stim are in the next game.

    As far as promoting teamwork, well have to wait and see but I'm not holding my breath. The best to hope for is not seeing nade spam and 3/4 of teams jump packing around doing no-scope 360 trick shots.

    I think Dice confirmed that the jump pack trooper is it's own special class that will be purchased with in round and be limited to how many are on the battlefield.. Similar to the new hero and vehicle system
  • Old_fella_1963
    3071 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    rollind24 wrote: »
    Alvonator wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I have no problem moving to classes but I keep laughing at the people that are saying it is going to promote teamwork in the new StarWars game. I can't wait for the threads complaining about all the casuals attracted to the name star wars that all they want to do is go pew pew. Honestly what I see promoting more teamwork in BF1 is the squad system rather than the class system.

    It does promote teamwork though.....

    Every class has strengths and weaknesses, they must support each other to succeed.. If I play Heavy, I expect to support teammates, and I will expect Assault players to take out vehicles.

    You expect to much. I also expect players in the first game to understand objectives but that didn't work out so well.

    I'm not knocking classes. I just have little faith in the playerbase.

    Have to agree. EXPECT that a broader player base will not meet your expectations of team play and possibly worse,the game becomes slow and no fun

    "BF1 is just shot someone, get shot in the back, respawn; shot someone get shot from the side . . . you rarely ever see your attacker, and almost never get to square up on them." Accurate description from my playing BF1 too
  • DiscoverME
    137 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    rollind24 wrote: »
    The problem with Battlefield I is that it's too casual... Battlefield 4 has a higher learning curve..

    Uh, no. The problem is not that Battlefield 1 is "too casual" or that Battlefield 4 has a steep learning curve. Battlefield 1 defined the classes much more strongly than in Battlefield 4, where the vast majority of players are assault-medics with close-medium-long-range AEK spam.

    The problem lies in how they drove the distinction between the four main classes. The RNG bullet-spread, while doing a good job at limiting the scope of weapon effectiveness for the classes, made the gunplay too restricted. As opposed to eventually learning a spread pattern or compensating for how a firearm drags, the current RNG system restricts weapons to distinct ranges. Neither the intent nor the effect is a "casual" game, but rather to emphasize the differences between classes in an extreme fashion (to avoid the terrible blending and general sameness of all Battlefield 4 classes, a point of contention for many players) and promote teamwork. The entire design philosophy and mantra behind Battlefield 1 is "teamwork," something that people pleaded for DICE to do, not the alleged "accessibility."
  • Battlefield is great you're just salty you're not getting what you want
    rWnfFLl.gif
  • firefly2003
    89 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    crolumbine wrote: »
    Yeah idk dude Battlefield 1 is a pretty fun game imo

    He'll I'm still enjoying playing Battlefield 4 :)Own BF 1 I'm just not feeling it though
  • classes promote team play? Lol as if as soon as someone sees an enemy they ditch the objective and will run to get the kill, star cards or classes I'm a lone wolf I don't do team play
  • classes promote team play? Lol as if as soon as someone sees an enemy they ditch the objective and will run to get the kill, star cards or classes I'm a lone wolf I don't do team play

    There will always be terrible players, but classes promote team play automatically through giving players different areas where they specialize. Everyone wants kills, but if your the healer, it isn't in your best interest to rush into things headlong by yourself. Additionally, even if you are a class who is better suited to that style of play, often times there are other players of different classes that will be backing you up just because it is in their best interest to do so, generally because they get points for playing their class well.
  • DiscoverME
    137 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    classes promote team play? Lol as if as soon as someone sees an enemy they ditch the objective and will run to get the kill, star cards or classes I'm a lone wolf I don't do team play

    Promote being the operative word.
  • For everyone here worried about class systems in multiplayer war games... what multiplayer war games have you played before that were good and didn't use class systems?

    If you have no examples, then I'm not sure what all the fuss about classes (super common) is.
  • bfloo
    9242 posts Member
    I don't want an exact copy of Battlefield1 either.

    It is fun, but the pace is a lot slower and the large modes end up with too many snipers. This makes sense for a WW1 game, but not a Star Wars game.

    I've been in a lot of large games where 75% are sniping back and forth across the map so if you pick another class you can't take 3 steps before 10 snipers are shooting you at once. CoD is even worse these days.

    I hope they skip the scout/sniper class so BF2 doesn't end up the same way.

    As much as I wanted a 'real' sniper rifle in BF1, leaving it out ended up being a great choice by the devs.
  • Arockstar2
    675 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    bfloo wrote: »
    I don't want an exact copy of Battlefield1 either.

    It is fun, but the pace is a lot slower and the large modes end up with too many snipers. This makes sense for a WW1 game, but not a Star Wars game.

    I've been in a lot of large games where 75% are sniping back and forth across the map so if you pick another class you can't take 3 steps before 10 snipers are shooting you at once. CoD is even worse these days.

    I hope they skip the scout/sniper class so BF2 doesn't end up the same way.

    As much as I wanted a 'real' sniper rifle in BF1, leaving it out ended up being a great choice by the devs.

    Yes exactly, that's probably my main complaint about Battlefield 1. Wayyyy too many snipers that just completely ruins the game.
  • To be fair, Star Wars is not a series known for snipers. If the sniper class was missing or very limited, I wouldn't mind.
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