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Community Transmission
December CC

Locked Heroes...? Are You Kidding Me?!

245

Replies

  • koprich wrote: »
    koprich wrote: »

    I was able to unlock things at a good rate in the beta, without having the benefit of a performance bonus further increasing my credit earning rate. I didn't feel like it was a grind, and now I can unlock a bunch of class specific stuff just by playing that class, and while doing so I'll still be earning credits.

    Loot crates in video games are no more insidious than real life lootcrates, sports cards packs, mystery bundle sales, or collectors card games. To imply that one is ok, while the others aren't is disingenuous.


    You do realise that in the beta there was only a tiny fraction of the total pool of unlocks which made the chances of getting useful things MUCH higher? For a start, there was no useless cosmetics in there. You also no longer get crafting parts for duplicates either which is a little progression nerf they managed to slip under the radar.

    Additionally, I've not said "all loot crates are the devil", it's about this particular implementation of them which is so bad. I never once objected to how Overwatch were implementing loot crates, for example. They were purely cosmetic and the drop rates of the rarer items were pretty reasonable.

    The two worst things about this system (in my opinon) are:
    1. It is both non-cosmetic AND luck/RNG-based at the same time. Just to play all the gameplay-affecting content, you have to take your chances with the loot boxes
    2. The progression grind is far too long

    As for comparing them to card games - that's not a great comparison because card games are free and you only pay for the cards. This isn't a free to play game, it's a premium-priced, AAA game. Anyone buying the game should expect to be able to play everything in it (including all guns/star cards) within a reasonable time frame. If the grind to completion is much longer than 100 hours (which feels like a safe assumption - it's probably going to be closer to 10 times that for the 'average' lucked player), that's unacceptable in my opinion as they're compromising the experience for many people to try to promote loot crate sales.

    It's inaccurate to say card games are free when your pretty much going to have to either buy a starter kit, or invest a significant amount in random cards up front just to get enough to actually play the game.

    "The progression grind is far too long" -this is just speculation. You are literally just making up numbers with no concrete information. You are claiming that the game is going to be a closer to a thousand hours than a hundred hours based off of a hunch.

    If you feel so strongly about it why not vote with your wallet and just not buy it? If you feel like these practices are so insipid, aren't you just further enabling a company buy buying it?

    Speculation based of precedent and whilst it is an assumption, I feel safe in it.

    We'll find out soon enough when the embargo lifts anyway. I expect at least one YouTuber will have the balls to stand up to EA and post some analysis on drop rates, crafting part rates etc.

    I'm not buying it, by the way. Cancelled my pre-order after the first change they posted after the beta. It did nothing to address my concerns so I lost faith that they ever would.

    I am still tracking the game to see whether they do make another change post release as I am expecting user reviews/consumer consensus on the game to be extremely negative still so they may feel they have to.

    Between now and then, I'll just continue to do everything I can to put people off buying it.

    Well, this seems like an odd way to spend ones time

    "Between now and then, I'll just continue to do everything I can to put people off buying it."

    But hey man, you do you. I'm personally really excited, but if you have your doubts you made the right choice by canceling your preorder. It's not like the games going anywhere, it'll be here if you change your mind.

    Untill then "The burden is on me not to destroy all the droids before you get there."
  • koprich wrote: »
    koprich wrote: »

    I was able to unlock things at a good rate in the beta, without having the benefit of a performance bonus further increasing my credit earning rate. I didn't feel like it was a grind, and now I can unlock a bunch of class specific stuff just by playing that class, and while doing so I'll still be earning credits.

    Loot crates in video games are no more insidious than real life lootcrates, sports cards packs, mystery bundle sales, or collectors card games. To imply that one is ok, while the others aren't is disingenuous.


    You do realise that in the beta there was only a tiny fraction of the total pool of unlocks which made the chances of getting useful things MUCH higher? For a start, there was no useless cosmetics in there. You also no longer get crafting parts for duplicates either which is a little progression nerf they managed to slip under the radar.

    Additionally, I've not said "all loot crates are the devil", it's about this particular implementation of them which is so bad. I never once objected to how Overwatch were implementing loot crates, for example. They were purely cosmetic and the drop rates of the rarer items were pretty reasonable.

    The two worst things about this system (in my opinon) are:
    1. It is both non-cosmetic AND luck/RNG-based at the same time. Just to play all the gameplay-affecting content, you have to take your chances with the loot boxes
    2. The progression grind is far too long

    As for comparing them to card games - that's not a great comparison because card games are free and you only pay for the cards. This isn't a free to play game, it's a premium-priced, AAA game. Anyone buying the game should expect to be able to play everything in it (including all guns/star cards) within a reasonable time frame. If the grind to completion is much longer than 100 hours (which feels like a safe assumption - it's probably going to be closer to 10 times that for the 'average' lucked player), that's unacceptable in my opinion as they're compromising the experience for many people to try to promote loot crate sales.

    It's inaccurate to say card games are free when your pretty much going to have to either buy a starter kit, or invest a significant amount in random cards up front just to get enough to actually play the game.

    "The progression grind is far too long" -this is just speculation. You are literally just making up numbers with no concrete information. You are claiming that the game is going to be a closer to a thousand hours than a hundred hours based off of a hunch.

    If you feel so strongly about it why not vote with your wallet and just not buy it? If you feel like these practices are so insipid, aren't you just further enabling a company buy buying it?

    Speculation based of precedent and whilst it is an assumption, I feel safe in it.

    We'll find out soon enough when the embargo lifts anyway. I expect at least one YouTuber will have the balls to stand up to EA and post some analysis on drop rates, crafting part rates etc.

    I'm not buying it, by the way. Cancelled my pre-order after the first change they posted after the beta. It did nothing to address my concerns so I lost faith that they ever would.

    I am still tracking the game to see whether they do make another change post release as I am expecting user reviews/consumer consensus on the game to be extremely negative still so they may feel they have to.

    Between now and then, I'll just continue to do everything I can to put people off buying it.

    Lol, you're such a sad human being, just don't bother getting it even if you change your mind. You'll do us all a favour, rookie.
    May the Force be with you.
    "DEW IT."
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    "I am the Senate."
  • koprich
    1438 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    Well, this seems like an odd way to spend ones time

    Perhaps, but I'm bored at work! I'm not investing much time in it but if I even manage to dissuade just 5 people from pre-ordering the game, I'll be happy that I've done my part to hit EA in their wallet.

    Ultimately EA have only gone for such a highly-aggressive monetisation strategy because they think the increased revenue from that will outweigh the lost game purchases by people who object to it. If enough people turn their nose up at this game, that equation no longer balances out in their favour.

    Don't tell me that it doesn't make a difference either because the outrage at the beta managed to elicit some swift change. Not because they wanted to make a game we all like but because they ***** themselves at the prospect of lost pre-orders. If the game does less well than expected on release, they may make further changes or at least think twice at going to obnoxiously heavy on the loot crates with the next game.


  • DarthJ
    6824 posts Member
    My guess is this wouldnt be the case for HvV though.
    PSN: ibrajoker59
  • ROMG4
    2984 posts Member
    DarthJ wrote: »
    My guess is this wouldnt be the case for HvV though.

    OOM-9 FOR LEGO STAR WARS
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    The OOM-9 Thread
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
  • ROMG4 wrote: »
    DarthJ wrote: »
    My guess is this wouldnt be the case for HvV though.


    Gg
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  • I hate the idea. Blasters, star cards ETC I'm fine with being locked but this sounds like a cheap and terrible way of adding progression
    DarthJ wrote: »
    My guess is this wouldnt be the case for HvV though.

    4 heroes for each side are automatically unlocked. I'm 99% sure that it will be the same case for HvV
    Ponds main

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  • koprich wrote: »
    . Quit complaining and just GIT GUD already M8 #takeaseat

    I refuse to believe you're older than 13.

    IKR
  • Honestly, you still should be able to play heroes in Arcade so you can test to see what hero you like best and there shouldn't be a restriction on heroes for hero v villains.
  • Honestly, you still should be able to play heroes in Arcade so you can test to see what hero you like best and there shouldn't be a restriction on heroes for hero v villains.

    Okay
    "DEW IT."
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  • Greeeeaaaatt gonna have to unlock heroes I should’ve had already. Purchase with credits you get in game. Not bad. Except we get like 100 credits per game.

    180 for a win, and the devs said the credits were capped in the beta. It's also not uncommon for games to start you off with a fair amount of credits nowadays.
  • It's not a big a deal and bloody schtupid at the same time.
  • This makes me suspicious on whether or not the progression system is all that deep. If the system really did have that depth they claim it to have, there would be no need to lock heroes.
    "A thing called grammar needs a buff."
    - tankertoad
  • This is a good thing
  • DarthJ
    6824 posts Member
    So who are the 4 for each automatically unlocked? I'm too lazy to watch the video and I'm at work. From my keen detective skills I am guessing Vader and Palps are behind the credits lock...
    PSN: ibrajoker59
  • DarthJ wrote: »
    So who are the 4 for each automatically unlocked? I'm too lazy to watch the video and I'm at work. From my keen detective skills I am guessing Vader and Palps are behind the credits lock...

    Yoda, Han, Lando, Rey

    Maul, Boba, Bossk, Kylo
    Ponds main

    Officer of The Knights of Gareth
    uruzea55jgr4.png
  • DarthJ wrote: »
    So who are the 4 for each automatically unlocked? I'm too lazy to watch the video and I'm at work. From my keen detective skills I am guessing Vader and Palps are behind the credits lock...
    From the vid it looks as if Palpatine, Vader, Chewie, Luke, Leia, Iden and the Falcon will be locked.
    "A thing called grammar needs a buff."
    - tankertoad
  • Blazur
    4468 posts Member
    https://imgur.com/a/LMlLD

    According to leaks: Heroes locked are palpy, chewie, iden, leia, falcon (5k) and luke + vader (10k)
    The greatest teacher, failure is.
  • bfloo
    16164 posts Member
    Ceceli wrote: »
    Someone explains to me like I'm a 5 yo: what do we need to do to unlock these characters?

    Earn credits.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

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  • ROMG4
    2984 posts Member
    bfloo wrote: »
    Ceceli wrote: »
    Someone explains to me like I'm a 5 yo: what do we need to do to unlock these characters?

    Earn credits.

    OOM-9 FOR LEGO STAR WARS
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    The OOM-9 Thread
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
  • So pretty much just play the game, it's not a big deal.
  • Blazur
    4468 posts Member
    Stalemate wrote: »
    So pretty much just play the game, it's not a big deal.

    The only complaint I can see being made is this is a barrier to progression, when much of that revolves around unlocking cards. If the prices remain as they were in the beta then crates are roughly 100 credits. Vader and Luke each come at a trade-off cost of roughly 100 crates, which is a lot of cards.
    The greatest teacher, failure is.
  • koprich
    1438 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    Blazur wrote: »
    Stalemate wrote: »
    So pretty much just play the game, it's not a big deal.

    The only complaint I can see being made is this is a barrier to progression, when much of that revolves around unlocking cards. If the prices remain as they were in the beta then crates are roughly 100 credits. Vader and Luke each come at a trade-off cost of roughly 100 crates, which is a lot of cards.

    You got your maths a bit wrong there. As much as I want to bash EA at every opportunity.

    It was 1000-1200 credits per crate.

    So Luke/Vadar come at the cost of 10 crates.

    That is a lot though given the general consensus was that you get roughly one crate an hour. 10 hours of play time just to unlock a single hero (and at the expense of unlocking anything else in that time).

    It's pretty bad.
  • bfloo
    16164 posts Member
    koprich wrote: »
    Blazur wrote: »
    Stalemate wrote: »
    So pretty much just play the game, it's not a big deal.

    The only complaint I can see being made is this is a barrier to progression, when much of that revolves around unlocking cards. If the prices remain as they were in the beta then crates are roughly 100 credits. Vader and Luke each come at a trade-off cost of roughly 100 crates, which is a lot of cards.

    You got your maths a bit wrong there. As much as I want to bash EA at every opportunity.

    It was 1000-1200 credits per crate.

    So Luke/Vadar come at the cost of 10 crates.

    That is a lot though given the general consensus was that you get roughly one crate an hour. 10 hours of play time just to unlock a single hero (and at the expense of unlocking anything else in that time).

    It's pretty bad.

    They are the most powerful part of the game, they should be significantly more expensive than infantry weapons.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

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  • Blazur
    4468 posts Member
    koprich wrote: »
    It was 1000-1200 credits per crate.

    Oh, duh. Beta was only a short while ago and already I forgot the cost for crates. Still, 10 crates can be a lot of progression.

    On the flip side, for players who mostly play HvV they'll have goals to strive for as they play through the game and unlock credits. They can boast more hero variety earlier on than those players who choose to play the crate game.
    The greatest teacher, failure is.
  • Oh no, you actually have to play the game and some things are....wait for it..........LOCKED.

    Btw, not everything is just handed to you so there is nothing wrong with locked Heres
  • koprich
    1438 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    bfloo wrote: »
    koprich wrote: »
    Blazur wrote: »
    Stalemate wrote: »
    So pretty much just play the game, it's not a big deal.

    The only complaint I can see being made is this is a barrier to progression, when much of that revolves around unlocking cards. If the prices remain as they were in the beta then crates are roughly 100 credits. Vader and Luke each come at a trade-off cost of roughly 100 crates, which is a lot of cards.

    You got your maths a bit wrong there. As much as I want to bash EA at every opportunity.

    It was 1000-1200 credits per crate.

    So Luke/Vadar come at the cost of 10 crates.

    That is a lot though given the general consensus was that you get roughly one crate an hour. 10 hours of play time just to unlock a single hero (and at the expense of unlocking anything else in that time).

    It's pretty bad.

    They are the most powerful part of the game, they should be significantly more expensive than infantry weapons.

    Which you spend about 1% of your play time using unless it's HVV.

    Plus the different heroes should be balanced evenly. Not the ones who cost lots of credits being stronger than the others.

    10k credits is too much imo given that the opportunity cost is 10 crates.

    This whole progression system is a total ***** mess tbh. Too many currencies and nonsense.

    Should have been - credits buy you everything and you need certain ranks to before you can buy certain things. Loot crates are purely optional for those wishing to pay to accelerate their progression but in-game progression is purely based on levels and credits.

    I wonder how many pre-orders wouldn't have been cancelled if that was the system during the open beta?
  • Tomm3hgunn wrote: »
    Oh no, you actually have to play the game and some things are....wait for it..........LOCKED.

    Btw, not everything is just handed to you so there is nothing wrong with locked Heres

    Yeah this is standard to me, you shouldn't just get everything on a plate for you what's the point of that. You get credits for doing the campaign too so this will be fine.
  • bfloo
    16164 posts Member
    We don't know how long it will take to accumulate credits yet.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • Hey at least the prequel heroes are unlocked from the start because those are the ones that everyone is lookin forward to the most right? I don't think locking characters that aren't as cool like Iden or Bossk is that much of a big deal. But yeah I mean Vader shouldn't be locked I feel.
    CIS: OOM-9, Sebulba, Nute Gunray
    Republic: Coleman Trebor, Shmi Skywalker, The clone that fell with Padme
    Rebels: Lobot, Willrow Hood, Rebel Friend
    Empire: Rancor Keeper, Walrus Man, Dagobah Luke-Face Vader
    First Order: The stormtrooper with blood on his face
    Resistance: I couldn't care less
  • it doesn't really bother me ill have all the heroes in like 4 days cause with all my classes already epic cards so i can easily focus on heroes and get those heroes people just need to stop whining and wait till the game is out
  • Oreo
    736 posts Member
    It's a stupid idea but I can deal with it. I just hope Lando isn't locked lol I wanted to play him first.
  • koprich
    1438 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    10k credits is a lot purely because it has an opportunity cost of 10 loot crates. That's a hell of a lot.

    An indicative estimate for loot crate costs is $10 for 10 crates. Different games offer better or worse value than this but this seems to be average.

    That puts each heroes real-world price at $10. That's steep when 7 heroes are locked.

    This whole system is a total mess. Too complicated. Too many currencies, too monetised.

    Should have been simple:
    • Level up to unlock guns, cards and heroes for purchase
    • Purchase guns, cards and heroes with credits
    • Earn credits at the end of each game to spend on whatever you see fit (you have control)
    • Loot crates are 100% optional and are there to offer an accelerated progression for those willing to pay for it. In-game progression does not include loot crates.

    I wonder how many pre-orders they wouldn't have lost if that was the case when the public beta opened?

    The bad press they got from going too-greedy will have permanently tarnished this game in the eyes of many.
  • 10,000 credits isn't a lot to save up. They've aready said the credit earning system will be different to how it was in the beta.

  • ROMG4
    2984 posts Member
    Since when has unlocking stuff been a bad thing?

    People complained that in the last game ultimately credits were meaningless and now that we have finally received additional unlocks, people are now upset that they actually have to weigh the odds of which is more important to them

    I mean I don't understand why you'll open up probably hundreds if not thousands of loot boxes by the time Battle-Front 3 comes out having to sacrifice like 10 a piece isn't bad at all

    It gives you a new goal and forces you to strive forward to get better at the game so you obtain more credits to unlock stuff

    I mean most of the fun in a game is supposed to be at the beginning stages when you unlock stuff right?

    And besides it's not like you are going to use all the Heroes immediately right
    OOM-9 FOR LEGO STAR WARS
    OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
    https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png

    OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:

    Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
    William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
    Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
    Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
    Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
    The OOM-9 Thread
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
  • DarthJ
    6824 posts Member
    Apart from Vader and Palps, the ones I want are at the start anyway (Yoda, Kylo, Maul, Lando).
    PSN: ibrajoker59
  • How DARE EA make things that need to be earned!?

    The nerve of them...
    The greatest moderator that EA has ever had.
  • koprich
    1438 posts Member
    ROMG4 wrote: »
    Since when has unlocking stuff been a bad thing?

    Opportunity cost.

    Unlocking heroes for credits wouldn't be bad if you did not already need to sink millions of credits into loot crates to unlock everything else.

    If guns & star cards were just unlocked via credits not loot boxes, this wouldn't be an issue.

  • Quizolio
    3221 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    DarthJ wrote: »
    Apart from Vader and Palps, the ones I want are at the start anyway (Yoda, Kylo, Maul, Lando).

    Pretty much. Vader will likely be the first thing I work towards, but as a whole it really isn't a bad thing.
    "A thing called grammar needs a buff."
    - tankertoad
  • Danxoln
    2473 posts Member
    Personally I like the idea of having more things to unlock. I want to storm in as Vader rogue one style and see all the noobs fall as they realize how far along I am...on day one...
  • koprich wrote: »
    10k credits is a lot purely because it has an opportunity cost of 10 loot crates. That's a **** of a lot.

    An indicative estimate for loot crate costs is $10 for 10 crates. Different games offer better or worse value than this but this seems to be average.

    That puts each heroes real-world price at $10. That's steep when 7 heroes are locked.

    This whole system is a total mess. Too complicated. Too many currencies, too monetised.

    Should have been simple:
    • Level up to unlock guns, cards and heroes for purchase
    • Purchase guns, cards and heroes with credits
    • Earn credits at the end of each game to spend on whatever you see fit (you have control)
    • Loot crates are 100% optional and are there to offer an accelerated progression for those willing to pay for it. In-game progression does not include loot crates.

    I wonder how many pre-orders they wouldn't have lost if that was the case when the public beta opened?

    The bad press they got from going too-greedy will have permanently tarnished this game in the eyes of many.

    There are only 2 types of currency, credits and crystals. One of them you get just for playing the game, the other is completely optional.

    I honestly don't think it's fair to call YouTube game "journalists" journalist. They just take the same view and copy each other's videos, often based off of some post on Reddit with nothing to back it up. A journalist actually does a lot of research and reaches out for comments about something.

    Jim ***** Sterling son! is the first guy to tell you he's not a journalist, and if he isn't guys like AJ certainly arent. I think your vastly overestimating the impact that's it's going to have, because most* people have been happy with EAs clarification, and many who aren't would have still found a reason to be unhappy even if they had gotten every change hey wanted. So instead of the complaints we have now, we would have gotten something along the lines of "It's EA bro, you know there just lying about it"

    *(most is clearly an observation value and can not speak to real numbers of people who do or do not like a change, or even what percentage of people were happy or unhappy with the state of the game during the beta or leading up to release.)
  • TheStalker88
    6084 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    How DARE EA make things that need to be earned!?

    The nerve of them...

    It's already a grind to unlock new things. Unlocking new heroes adds even more grinding
  • Alex64 wrote: »
    There won't be Ewoks to unlock
    giphy.gif

    Never mind the ewoks. Nien Nunb is key
  • bfloo
    16164 posts Member
    Alex64 wrote: »
    There won't be Ewoks to unlock
    giphy.gif

    Never mind the ewoks. Nien Nunb is key

    +10 hues
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

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  • IronSoldier
    3847 posts SWBF Senior Moderator
    Step 1: Get better at the game
    Step 2: Play more
    Step 3: Unlock heroes

    It's not hard. It's not requiring money. It's the way it was in times gone by. Mario Kart doesn't give you all the character of the hoot. You need to unlock them. NFS doesn't give you all the cars. You need to unlock them.
  • AwesomeA9991
    234 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    I'm alright with this idea, more things to use credits for, which is what ppl wanted in first game anyways so, this is a win. Yet ppl still complain. No real surprise here. Wait and see if it's rlly that hard to get creds, then give constructive criticism.
    WATCH THOSE WRIST ROCKETS!
  • I'm alright with this idea, more things to use credits for, which is what ppl wanted in first game anyways so, this is a win. Yet ppl still complain. No real surprise here. Wait and see if it's rlly that hard to get creds, then give constructive criticism.

    "DEW IT."
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    "I am the Senate."
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