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Felucia Transmission

Criticism: When is it Acceptable?

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I have seen many posts covering the topic "Why the hate?" "Is hating battlefront 2 the new cool thing?" and many of the responses I have seen have been people praising this game for being great, calling it hilarious that others have concerns and that it is annoying. This made me wonder, what dictates what hate is, and why is it different from criticism?
While the answer to those questions is entirely subjective, for this post I will base it off of this sentiment: Criticism is a well stated "complaint" used to better the entirety of the game, usually offering alternatives to the system currently in place. Hate is a complaint, maybe with some merit, that is presented with the sole purpose of tearing down, offering no constructive opinions. That does not mean hate is useless. You should look at the sentiment behind the hate. Maybe the hater has overstated a sentiment shared by other people.
Many of the concerns I have read are actually very legitimate. Such as the concerns about the Pay to win aspects of this game, the lack of weapons per class (4), balance concerns with heroes, even the concerns about customization lacking this time around can all have a good constructive arguments about why they are important. In fact, most of the front page complaint posts fall under the Criticism category. All of this being said, people are complaining about people complaining, and for those people I have a question. When is Criticism of a product someone payed for warranted? Are these people not entitled to their opinions because of how early this game is? Why is it annoying to see these posts that people clearly care about, I personally see no harm in sharing concerns, in fact the only outcome I can see is overwhelmingly positive! Is this game only to be praised, with nothing bad ever being said about this "gem" of a "perfect" game?

Replies

  • 2 things

    1) criticism is great, if it's well thought out and isn't used as an excuse to attack people of other opinions, or the game makers. Even if the criticism isn't very constructive it needs to be focused on the game and gameplay, not a company or other players. People constantly call the developers lazy and greedy and then wonder why they don't spend more time here replying.

    2) please use breaks in your posts, a wall of text is much harder to read than the same post with a few paragraphs.

    May the force be with you.
  • Spot on with that post. I’ve seen many people around here instantly attacking others for voicing reasonable concerns with “stop crying.” Some people are negative for no reason but some are voicing legitimate concerns that deserve discussion.
  • Evazan127
    8105 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    People just can’t handle the negative nature of the forums. I struggle with this too.

    Because this is the place for critique and also where the whiners come it really adds up.
  • EvazanJr wrote: »
    People just can’t handle the negative nature of the forums. I struggle with this too.

    Because this is the place for critique and also where the whiners come it really adds up.

    I would say there’s a big difference between obvious whiners and people with reasonable criticism. Forums can’t only be positive all the time
  • rollind24
    5861 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    Criticism is acceptable but I’ve watched a loud group on the forums for the past months just simply want a different game. Go play a different game if that’s the case.

    Nerfs/Buffs were being requested here before the Beta even came out. Let a couple of “stop whining threads” happen since we’ve had hundreds of the opposite on here.
    #infantrylivesmatter
  • Cad_Bane wrote: »
    EvazanJr wrote: »
    People just can’t handle the negative nature of the forums. I struggle with this too.

    Because this is the place for critique and also where the whiners come it really adds up.

    I would say there’s a big difference between obvious whiners and people with reasonable criticism. Forums can’t only be positive all the time
    That’s true. I’m saying u get the good and the bad negativity. Both types can be overwhelming; at least to me.
  • EvazanJr wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    EvazanJr wrote: »
    People just can’t handle the negative nature of the forums. I struggle with this too.

    Because this is the place for critique and also where the whiners come it really adds up.

    I would say there’s a big difference between obvious whiners and people with reasonable criticism. Forums can’t only be positive all the time
    That’s true. I’m saying u get the good and the bad negativity. Both types can be overwhelming; at least to me.

    Agreed.
  • Cad_Bane wrote: »
    Spot on with that post. I’ve seen many people around here instantly attacking others for voicing reasonable concerns with “stop crying.” Some people are negative for no reason but some are voicing legitimate concerns that deserve discussion.

    Haters definitely exist, but they are pretty easy to spot
  • Cad_Bane wrote: »
    EvazanJr wrote: »
    People just can’t handle the negative nature of the forums. I struggle with this too.

    Because this is the place for critique and also where the whiners come it really adds up.

    I would say there’s a big difference between obvious whiners and people with reasonable criticism. Forums can’t only be positive all the time

    I think you're right, but people also tend to get burnt out on the same complaints, so when a reasonable criticism comes along they are already in defense mode. That doesn't make it the right thing to do, but we as human being rarely do the right thing.

    It's also possible to have the most reasonable criticisms, but not to express them in a reasonable manner. Battle lines are drawn, and conversations become less about debating what is best for the game, and more about arguing about who is right. This isn't a unique problems for forums or video games, it's pretty wide spread in society.

    It's important to try to debate with good intentions and an open mind, and that applies to both those critical of an issue and those who support it. Most people on this forum do want to see the best version of the game possible, and even when we disagree it's a good idea to try to keep that fact in mind.
  • rollind24 wrote: »
    Criticism is acceptable but I’ve watched a loud group on the forums for the past months just simply want a different game. Go play a different game if that’s the case.

    True. Some don’t seem to offer any feedback or criticism, but are just negative. Also, there’s a group on here that constantly complain about others complaining which is annoying and ironic. It just makes things worse
  • rollind24 wrote: »
    Criticism is acceptable but I’ve watched a loud group on the forums for the past months just simply want a different game. Go play a different game if that’s the case.

    I agree. I definitely don't mind people sharing their opinions. When I post on critical threads I'm usually trying to be informative like the customization ones and try to show good things about the game when they want to see everything bad.
    SFA Reinforcement Ideas - https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/98321/starfighter-assault-reinforcement-ideas#latest

    Specialist Scout Pistol Addition - https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/90785/flash-pistol-scout-pistol-needs-to-be-on-specialist-please/p1

    "Lean upon pain like a crutch and you create anger and a dark fear of truth. Pain guides, but it does not support" Obi-Wan Kenobi

    3i4nza8m24rn.gif
  • rollind24 wrote: »
    Criticism is acceptable but I’ve watched a loud group on the forums for the past months just simply want a different game. Go play a different game if that’s the case.

    I agree. I definitely don't mind people sharing their opinions. When I post on critical threads I'm usually trying to be informative like the customization ones and try to show good things about the game when they want to see everything bad.

    Yea I do understand the concerns about p2w, I’m not concerned about it but I’m not going to bag on people for not liking the loot crates.At the same time I watched people thrash the last one for months for not having enough “progression”. Well guess what, we have plenty of stuff to do now to “progress”.
    #infantrylivesmatter
  • rollind24 wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    Criticism is acceptable but I’ve watched a loud group on the forums for the past months just simply want a different game. Go play a different game if that’s the case.

    I agree. I definitely don't mind people sharing their opinions. When I post on critical threads I'm usually trying to be informative like the customization ones and try to show good things about the game when they want to see everything bad.

    Yea I do understand the concerns about p2w, I’m not concerned about it but I’m not going to bag on people for not liking the loot crates.At the same time I watched people thrash the last one for months for not having enough “progression”. Well guess what, we have plenty of stuff to do now to “progress”.

    Can't agree more. I don't have anything against people worrying about P2W and loot crates but same as you I'm not worried about it because I think they will be fine.
    SFA Reinforcement Ideas - https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/98321/starfighter-assault-reinforcement-ideas#latest

    Specialist Scout Pistol Addition - https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/90785/flash-pistol-scout-pistol-needs-to-be-on-specialist-please/p1

    "Lean upon pain like a crutch and you create anger and a dark fear of truth. Pain guides, but it does not support" Obi-Wan Kenobi

    3i4nza8m24rn.gif
  • danilojbg
    837 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    There's less good criticism, but it's easier to spot when we run into it. Usually well fundamented and logical ideas that contribute to the debate and may help improving the quality of the product. That includes negative criticism as well as positive.

    Pointless hating is bad, but irrational fanboysm is no better. Stuff like "game is horrible, fix it" as well as "if you don't like it don't buy it" add nothing to the debate.

  • danilojbg wrote: »
    There's less good criticism, but it's easier to spot when we run into it. Usually well fundamented and logical ideas that contribute to the debate and may help improving the quality of the product. That includes negative criticism as well as positive.

    Pointless hating is bad, but irrational fanboysm is no better. Stuff like "game is horrible, fix it" as well as "if you don't like it don't buy it" add nothing to the debate.

    i completely agree
  • danilojbg wrote: »

    Pointless hating is bad, but irrational fanboysm is no better. Stuff like "game is horrible, fix it" as well as "if you don't like it don't buy it" add nothing to the debate.

    That deserves an upvote
  • Cad_Bane wrote: »
    danilojbg wrote: »

    Pointless hating is bad, but irrational fanboysm is no better. Stuff like "game is horrible, fix it" as well as "if you don't like it don't buy it" add nothing to the debate.

    That deserves an upvote

    Why doesnt this forum have an upvote and downvote option?
  • Octavious_Wrex
    3043 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    danilojbg wrote: »

    Pointless hating is bad, but irrational fanboysm is no better. Stuff like "game is horrible, fix it" as well as "if you don't like it don't buy it" add nothing to the debate.

    That deserves an upvote

    Why doesnt this forum have an upvote and downvote option?

    Those options weren't ready for launch, but may be available at some point in the future :p
  • Cad_Bane wrote: »
    danilojbg wrote: »

    Pointless hating is bad, but irrational fanboysm is no better. Stuff like "game is horrible, fix it" as well as "if you don't like it don't buy it" add nothing to the debate.

    That deserves an upvote

    Why doesnt this forum have an upvote and downvote option?

    It would be a cool feature. Especially if it would track your upvotes and it would show on your profile how many upvotes you achieved.
  • Cad_Bane wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    danilojbg wrote: »

    Pointless hating is bad, but irrational fanboysm is no better. Stuff like "game is horrible, fix it" as well as "if you don't like it don't buy it" add nothing to the debate.

    That deserves an upvote

    Why doesnt this forum have an upvote and downvote option?

    It would be a cool feature. Especially if it would track your upvotes and it would show on your profile how many upvotes you achieved.

    Also a good way to gauge better what the community thinks, especially some of the people who read but don't post. Every forum has those. Can be a way for them to indirectly join the debate.
  • danilojbg wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    Cad_Bane wrote: »
    danilojbg wrote: »

    Pointless hating is bad, but irrational fanboysm is no better. Stuff like "game is horrible, fix it" as well as "if you don't like it don't buy it" add nothing to the debate.

    That deserves an upvote

    Why doesnt this forum have an upvote and downvote option?

    It would be a cool feature. Especially if it would track your upvotes and it would show on your profile how many upvotes you achieved.

    Also a good way to gauge better what the community thinks, especially some of the people who read but don't post. Every forum has those. Can be a way for them to indirectly join the debate.

    Yes, this post itself has 200 views, yet 20 comments.
  • Cad_Bane wrote: »
    EvazanJr wrote: »
    People just can’t handle the negative nature of the forums. I struggle with this too.

    Because this is the place for critique and also where the whiners come it really adds up.

    I would say there’s a big difference between obvious whiners and people with reasonable criticism. Forums can’t only be positive all the time

    This. There's a big difference between criticizing and complaining, and not all of us who are criticizing are also complaining, especially those who tries to be as reasonable as possible.


    We should not expect that games like BF2 will be absolutely perfect for every last players that not even one single player from the whole world will find something flawed for whatever reason, but I think many developers in general will often try their best to get as close to "perfect" as possible for as many players as possible (in order to be as successful as possible).

    If there are reasonable feedback from enough certain number of players with their wishes of improving BF2 gameplay, then there is a good chance that their feedback will be acknowledged and Dice will do to improve for the better of interests from most players. On the other hand, feedback with the demand of drastic changes, like ridding loot crate system or bringing back the exact-same mechanism from the original BF2, is not something that is in Dice's vision of making their own Battlefront games, as long as they know what they are doing in their way that will make it work well enough for a lot of players.
    PSN: FriedPizza773
  • I dont think there are any "whinners" tbh. Everyone on here wants the game for the most part, either now ,next year, when the price drops etc. And people on here who just tear down constantly with no positives mentioned are obviously not worth the time and are not fans.

    I think however,some people dont know how to use a forum or voice their opinion properly on the forums. Such as people who dont speak english that well can come off as strange at times or 12 year olds who post 4 times they want General Grievous all over the place and are not mature enough to realize once is enough and you dont have to derail a topic(s) for it. At least I attribute those types of reaponses to people not used to forums, young people or non-english speakers to give the benifit of the doubt.

    And most importantly, as stated in an above post, forums have the most hardcore fans and thus, the most critical fans because we want tthe best game possible. We are the Andy Warhol's of games on forums and who review, the masses who are not online are the screaming fans. We should be and should come off as a bit more negative nancyish at times. If we didnt, well this would be as bad as SWBF 2015 for the most part lol. Good, thinking abd caring fans point out when something can be better.

    Look at it this way- if you love you child will you be critical of them and teach them the proper way to do things in life? Or once you pop him out of you do you just feed him till he walks then say "whatever, do what you want to survive"?

  • It is acceptable where it is needed to make a change. Ex telling a company not to make money is not acceptable. Telling a company to have a working game is acceptable.
    I no longer use this account or anything Battlefront related as of 08/07/2018.
  • FriedPizza773
    1174 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    It is acceptable where it is needed to make a change. Ex telling a company not to make money is not acceptable. Telling a company to have a working game is acceptable.

    This.

    I think it's important to note that companies, like Dice and EA, with the control of every assets they have in their business means that they, not consumers, have the absolute right to make and sell whatever and however they want within their set visions.

    We certainly cannot force Dice to do their work the way we wanted against their company's vision, but of course they are taking very serious steps after what they learned from their experiences with BF (2015), and they are listening to us very carefully. They may acknowledge our demands so long as there are certain possibilities to be met without any drawbacks in the interest of a lot of players.
    PSN: FriedPizza773
  • I think criticism is fair when people don't come off as whiny. You're more credible when you don't yell and personally insult developers. A lot of points that could be valid criticisms are, as Obi-Wan said, "So uncivilized"...
  • There's also the great likelihood of unyielding opinions. It's possible to go into an argument and present player-made solutions and try to point out that the complaint at some times is over exaggerated and then it ends up in a cyclical debate where you're so firmly rooted in your idea that you don't really think about changing your perspective but more so about squashing the other person's arguments. For better or worse, I've been on both sides of this -- hands up, I'm only human.
  • As someone who enjoyed the first Battlefront from EA,bought the season pass and felt I got my moneys worth out of it(I played about 200hrs),I'm not touching this game ever!I would never tell anyone what to do with their money but for me the game is a complete clusterf**k.The loot boxes and systems associated with it completely turn me off.Its been a complete travesty that EA got the Star Wars license they are wasting it away,I hope Disney see the light and strip them of it when it runs out.
  • Come over to the Activision boards to ***** on call of duty with me
  • mastery0ta wrote: »
    Come over to the Activision boards to **** on call of duty with me

    6b6cf28930d939fe064157b9fe38fe92.gif

    Lol
    SFA Reinforcement Ideas - https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/98321/starfighter-assault-reinforcement-ideas#latest

    Specialist Scout Pistol Addition - https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/90785/flash-pistol-scout-pistol-needs-to-be-on-specialist-please/p1

    "Lean upon pain like a crutch and you create anger and a dark fear of truth. Pain guides, but it does not support" Obi-Wan Kenobi

    3i4nza8m24rn.gif
  • Just #GITGUD
    "DEW IT."
    p1jlhhgtai3b.png
    "I am the Senate."
  • Just #GITGUD

    "DEW IT."
    p1jlhhgtai3b.png
    "I am the Senate."
  • Lonnisity
    1946 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    The problem is bandwagon mentality. People who have no true opinion based in any substance (therefore no idea what they're talking about) and just repeat popular complaints because "it must be true."
    "Yeah, I'm responsible these days. It's the price you pay for being successful."
  • mastery0ta wrote: »
    Come over to the Activision boards to **** on call of duty with me

    6b6cf28930d939fe064157b9fe38fe92.gif

    Lol

    Your gifs are dank son
  • mastery0ta wrote: »
    mastery0ta wrote: »
    Come over to the Activision boards to **** on call of duty with me

    6b6cf28930d939fe064157b9fe38fe92.gif

    Lol

    Your gifs are dank son

    chewy.gif
    SFA Reinforcement Ideas - https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/98321/starfighter-assault-reinforcement-ideas#latest

    Specialist Scout Pistol Addition - https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/90785/flash-pistol-scout-pistol-needs-to-be-on-specialist-please/p1

    "Lean upon pain like a crutch and you create anger and a dark fear of truth. Pain guides, but it does not support" Obi-Wan Kenobi

    3i4nza8m24rn.gif
  • SAmulticore
    3323 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    I’ll wind people up sometimes but it’s usually only when they come off as aggressive. There’s too much angry ‘my opinion is the right opinion’ going on at the moment.

    The whole board’s gone nuts since beta, I’m just waiting for Order 66 on the non-game owners.
  • I’ll wind people up sometimes but it’s usually only when they come off as aggressive. There’s too much angry ‘my opinion is the right opinion’ going on at the moment.

    The whole board’s gone nuts since beta, I’m just waiting for Order 66 on the non-game owners.

    Yes it honestly really has. Hahahah
    SFA Reinforcement Ideas - https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/98321/starfighter-assault-reinforcement-ideas#latest

    Specialist Scout Pistol Addition - https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/90785/flash-pistol-scout-pistol-needs-to-be-on-specialist-please/p1

    "Lean upon pain like a crutch and you create anger and a dark fear of truth. Pain guides, but it does not support" Obi-Wan Kenobi

    3i4nza8m24rn.gif
  • sah227
    125 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    The way I see it, I find unreasonable about the "loot crates" "pay to win" arguments, since they're like all over the internet. It's a bummer that people who are so against everything are not seeing the bright side. I wish there is a way to end the controversy in a clean way, it just seemed impossible to extinguish the fire that is like getting out of hand, just because some boy caused it and ask for something from everyone else. It doesn't even make sense to me like at all.
  • Cad_Bane
    6252 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    I’ll wind people up sometimes but it’s usually only when they come off as aggressive. There’s too much angry ‘my opinion is the right opinion’ going on at the moment.

    The whole board’s gone nuts since beta, I’m just waiting for Order 66 on the non-game owners so we can have almost-civil conversations again.

    Lol. Agreed. It will be like switching from Mos Eisley spaceport to the calm lakeside of Naboo :D
  • Cad_Bane wrote: »
    I’ll wind people up sometimes but it’s usually only when they come off as aggressive. There’s too much angry ‘my opinion is the right opinion’ going on at the moment.

    The whole board’s gone nuts since beta, I’m just waiting for Order 66 on the non-game owners so we can have almost-civil conversations again.

    Lol. Agreed. It will be like switching from Mos Eisley spaceport to the calm lakeside of Naboo :D

    Ah. Where true, yet creepy love is found
  • #SonyPlayersSalty




  • Great to see this as a topic. Seeing someone complain about petty **** with no real basis for the complaints can be just as offsetting as seeing someone constantly deny any faults with the game and condeming anyone who would dare to post a "where are the trooper customization skins" thread.
    Hey Man.
    fw2yVS7.jpg
  • 2000sGuy wrote: »
    Great to see this as a topic. Seeing someone complain about petty **** with no real basis for the complaints can be just as offsetting as seeing someone constantly deny any faults with the game and condeming anyone who would dare to post a "where are the trooper customization skins" thread.

    Thank you
  • mastery0ta wrote: »
    Come over to the Activision boards to **** on call of duty with me

    Let’s start a bunch of threads letting them know we won’t buy the game unless they change the gameplay to be more like Battlefront 2
    #infantrylivesmatter
  • rollind24 wrote: »
    mastery0ta wrote: »
    Come over to the Activision boards to **** on call of duty with me

    Let’s start a bunch of threads letting them know we won’t buy the game unless they change the gameplay to be more like Battlefront 2

    Excellent idea sir! They wish they were star wars fans with purpose like us here. #callofdutysucks
  • rollind24 wrote: »
    mastery0ta wrote: »
    Come over to the Activision boards to **** on call of duty with me

    Let’s start a bunch of threads letting them know we won’t buy the game unless they change the gameplay to be more like Battlefront 2

    That game is called battlefield
  • What is going on :s?!? After a while when this thread made a last post, suddenly there was a lot of crazy, yet closed threads in just one day (from my perspective), and these are just some of the examples:

    The question is it P2W

    Dear EA, 100% not buying.

    People who are defending the game in its current state

    Don't support P2W! Vote with your wallet!

    The last three links are related to one after another, posted by the same person who then just got banned.

    1. GRAPHICS

    2. seriously?

    3. ThePoolshark

    A number of these threads just happened so quickly. Not only we have people constantly "attacking" the still-upcoming Star Wars Battlefront 2, but we also had one who even "attacked" our moderator ThePoolshark directly. Honestly I feel really bad for him who had to deal with this, as well as closing too many of these useless threads in just a day. He is doing his job as a moderator trying to maintain order in this forums section, but this kind of mess certainly does not need to happen. :(
    PSN: FriedPizza773
  • Thank you for explaining this to the forum @N3gativePrime... I've been saying the same thing on a few threads.

    Some times a negative (criticism) does equal a positive (future gameplay experience).
  • It is acceptable where it is needed to make a change. Ex telling a company not to make money is not acceptable. Telling a company to have a working game is acceptable.

    They do make money... $60-$80 per game sold.

    ...that use to be enough for video game companies...

    (in all honestly, I don't mind having a season pass system if the base game is fleshed out enough, but I hypocritically digress)
  • danilojbg wrote: »

    Pointless hating is bad, but irrational fanboysm is no better. Stuff like "game is horrible, fix it" as well as "if you don't like it don't buy it" add nothing to the debate.

    Upvote it by reposting it, lol
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