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[All classes] class balance - My compilation

Phoenix13
238 posts Member
edited November 2017
Overall not a bad job in class balance. I think only a couple things need to get tweaked, with the exception of the specialist. Some games have that one class the devs just don't like or don't want to bother with and make you want to stop playing and post-beta specialist feels like that right now. Ill go through it the rest first.
General mechanics
Lens glare - should really be removed from the game or made to only appear outside in the open during the day when the gun is facing the sun. At the very least it should be reduced by 80% and applied to all weapons with scopes, not just specialists. Seriously, the only thing giving specialists a chance to survive with their meager health is stealth but a giant beacon, let alone the red tags, destroys this balance.

Heavy
this class I think is in a really good spot. People that complain tend to just not use it correctly. I personally don't have a hard time getting the most kills in Blast and sometimes mvp with it, but it isn't OP either. I have no change suggestions for it. I however havnt had experience with the tl50 and am slightly worried secondary fire could be over the top, but leave for now.
Officer
The abilities seem fine but it does have to be kept in mind that with the self buff, it has the highest hp in the game, which makes the already ridiculously strong weapons way over the top. Officer is a support class, which people often forget, and the weapons should really be more like they were in beta.
Blurgg - mvp for most op weapon currently. It needs a damage reduction and significant range reduction
Se-5 - also needs a damage reduction and significant range reduction
You can kill snipers from afar without ADSing because you don't need headshots to kill anyone at any range with these.
Assault
Actually not in a bad spot or as op as some ppl claim, tho it is definitely an easy class to do well in
- vanguard - slightly too strong. I would increase the spread to slightly shorten the range and maybe make it last a couple seconds shorter
- killstreak vanguard - its supposed to be an upgrade, not sidegrade. Bring it's base time up either to match the other variants or to within 5sec of them. 1 kill should makes it last as long if not longer than the base. 2 kills and it should definitely already see benefits.
- cr2 not op like ppl claim sure to it being useful only at shorter ranges. Leave it alone
- a280c - could use a slight damage reduction. It is actually really strong. If lens glare is not removed, this should also cause it.
- el-16hfe - slightly more recoil and possibly lower cooling at most. Possibly could leave this alone though.
Specialist
HP - specialists need more health or this game can't be balanced. Other classes having 50% to 100% more, ignoring officer buffs, is crazy. It's possible it needs 150hp, but in the interest of bit over -buffing like the over-nerf since beta, start by giving it 125hp. With 100, weapons cannot possibly be balanced and anything can kill a specialist, with many weapons able to kill it at range before one can even line up a shot.
- lens glare - See above
- infiltration - slight damage buff would be good, but not much more than that. Essentially give the ee4 a couple more meters of range would be sufficient.
- killstreak infiltration - same changes as killstreak vanguard. It currently lasts half as long as the rest and it needs a couple kills to make it with it. Generally you are avoiding being close for long with specialist so it really isn't an upgrade at all. Probably should last as long as the rest, but a 7 second increase in time may be enough. Optionally make it a 5 second increase but decrease the time-reduction per shot by 50%.
- shock grenade - still don't get why the stun was taken out. Now it is useless. Add the stun back in. At the very least, make it so anyone in the field can't dodge -roll or jump and Make fire rates of anyone in it 33% slower.
- repulsor cannon - increase the range significantly. Currently enemies pretty much need to be in melee range to use it. Might as well just punch them.
- nt-242 - again with this gun you are putting a big arrow pointing at the specialist for everyone to see. They need to remain stealthed to survive, even with a hp increase. Especially with this gun since it is so bad at close range. Remove the lingering green fog from it. thematically it makes no sense either side no other weapon had this including vehicle cannons. Also I'd consider increasing the bolt speed slightly and doing more damage at point blank range. (Why can pistols one hit kill at close range but not this cannon?). One more thing, if specialists health is increased, this damage should too to match, except that it should never do 150 damage to the body at range.
- personal shield - this can be abused in current state using this plus infiltration, plus stealth, plus brawler. You can run around without a care punching people out unless enough people focus you down to pop the bubble. Reduce the active time of the shield to 10 seconds. This makes it useful as an "oh crud, get out" button or a quick punch and run, but not a sustained WWE style mass beat down.
Post edited by Phoenix13 on

Replies

  • "- cr2 not op like ppl claim sure to it being useful only at shorter ranges. Leave it alone"

    I laughed. This pistol is one of the most insane weapons in the game. It outperforms every rifle from every class. You can even snipe with it!
  • You are mistaking that for the se5 or blurgg. Cr2 is Assaults Small Machine Gun that is only good at close range.
    I concur with your sentiments about the pistols though
  • Lmgs need less spread and slightly more damage. Explosive sentry needs to do more vehicle damage and have less spread. It should be heavily anti vehicle since you can't move and fire
  • The more I play with the specialist, the more i realize that it really does need the shock grenade to stun like it used to. Even just disabling the dodge roll I'm pretty sure won't be enough; enemies will still be able to shoot you down before you can kill them.
    Also infiltration needs less spread.
  • I agree with all of this spot on except that you said a280c need a Nerf. I would actually probably wouldn't mind this but the rate of fire would have to increase. That's whats also wrong with this game. The stock weapons have the best range, speed, damage ratio. All of the others are super slow and strong or super fast and weak. If it stays this way starting weapons should be cross era, cause they currently aren't right now, and have upgrades like the other guns. Other then that well said.
  • Sarge3507 wrote: »
    I agree with all of this spot on except that you said a280c need a Nerf. I would actually probably wouldn't mind this but the rate of fire would have to increase. That's whats also wrong with this game. The stock weapons have the best range, speed, damage ratio. All of the others are super slow and strong or super fast and weak. If it stays this way starting weapons should be cross era, cause they currently aren't right now, and have upgrades like the other guns. Other then that well said.

    Nah, I kill people really fast with that gun. Specialists up close die in one burst. Further away I can still snipe them before they snipe me many times. It's definitely stronger than the specialist a280, but really should be about the same. It is great in all game modes.
  • I agree with all of this. Great non-biased solutions, officer is slightly debatable however, if you do change anything about the officer please, please, please do all adjustments with extreme moderation. You devs really dicked the specialist, pardon my french. The only thing I would add is return infiltration to its former glory minus 100% refresh. If you do this and keep 100hp then I believe specialist will be brought back into balance. Keep in mind that specialist should be a glass canon, if he has the ability to wipe out a dozen troops with this ability its due to the inattention of the enemy. Note most classes are way stronger now then they were in the beta, even if we were talking the beta version of specialist going head to head with a heavy, officer, assault usually meant certain death most the time if they saw you coming.
  • Very good points brought up here. I would like to provide some additional feedback pertaining to Specialist.

    Having only 100 health can be problematic, however, if it's determined that an increase is warranted I wouldn't go over 125 health. At 150, paired with Hardened Infiltration, the class would become a bit tanky when that particular combination is in use which doesn't feel suitable for a Specialist. I'm on the fence about whether a health increase is absolutely necessary, but I would say that it should stay within the 100-125 range.

    I do have an issue with Infiltration in that the EE-4 doesn't pack as much of a punch as it should. The damage potential should be closer to, or even higher than, that of the current Blurrg-1120 (quad-burst), but kept within the confines of medium range. (For those that may be unaware, the current Blurrg-1120 has both higher damage and more reliable accuracy at long range when compared to the EE-4.) I think it's appropriate for the Specialist to feel akin to a "glass cannon" which I believe should apply to the EE-4. The current experience with the EE-4 is a little underwhelming, however.

    And lastly, I would like to comment on the shock grenade. Though not the greatest star card, it does have its purpose as an area denial tool. I think the shock grenade is okay as it is since it provides a niche use, however I would advocate for the Specialist to receive their own variant of Lando's Disabler, either taking the place of the shock grenade as a default star card or as a future star card you can choose to equip. When compared to the thermal detonator, impact grenade, and flash grenade, the shock grenade is certainly the least impactful. A disabler would be similar to the flash grenade in that it can leave targets vulnerable, but for a shorter duration, and with little to no damage from the disabler itself. I don't think that's asking for too much from a standard star card.

    In summary, the Specialist is extremely vulnerable and lacks the tools to deal with threats at close range. And before people say, "it's a sniper; it's supposed to be vulnerable" I would argue that the mere existence of Infiltration, as well as the melee damage enhancement provided by the Stealth star card, is proof that the Specialist isn't designed to exclusively sit back and snipe enemies from across the map. I think it's fair for the Specialist to be able to even the odds, with the aid of star cards, against opposing classes that can easily deal with a Specialist using only their standard firearm. A Specialist caught without these tools readily available could still easily meet a grim fate.
  • SgtNerdrage
    154 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    Well written and good feedback by the OP there.

    I'm in agreement about the Heavy class. Seems to be in a good spot with abilities to do well with. Class special ability being the Sentry versions fits the class and i think it's in a good place. I do however feel that 200 hp is too much when they also have the shield to use as defence or a crutch for easy kills. More on hp later.

    As for the Officer class i agree with everything you said, except the S-5. It should remain the hand cannon it is right now with the range at least intact. Slight dmg nerf would be ok.
    The blurrg though. Plain and simply broken. I felt dirty using it, so now i rather use the SE-44C.

    I agree about the assault class for the most part.
    The class is in a fairly good spot
    Vanguard could do less dmg against heroes. But since it is a shotgun it should 1 shot the regular classes in close range as it does now.
    CR2 i agree is not op. Leave it alone.
    You said a280c. But i assume you meant a280. I disagree with any dmg reduction on it. As it stand its a balanced gun. If however a dmg reduction is to happen it would need a buff in firerate. Or to be made full auto with a better firerate then the starting weapon.

    Specialist i dont play much. But ive unlocked all weapons. I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
    Specifically about the hp of the class. 100 hp is too little.
    Also lens glare both in this game and battlefield is just illogical in most cases. Especially the huge flashlight effect in this game. Should be toned down a lot or removed. Lens glare happens when the sun hits the lens... So it should only happen if sun....
    Its just stu pid..
    Infiltration was hit too hard with the nerf bat. Im ok with the dmg and range on the ee4 because it does have the addition of enemy dots on the minimap.
    But what really hurts it is that for each shot the duration is shortened. This is just really bad design for a special ability when the other classes abilities are so strong.

    As a final point I'd like to state that all classes should have 150 hp. 200 for heavy is too much when they got that shield for defense and they heal while in sentry mode.
    100 for specialistis is too little for a class that generally lacks survivability outside of the shieldbubble.
    I guess it was worth a try by the devs doing different hp stats for the regular classes to make them unique and all. But balance wise i think it was a fail. And they are already unique enough.
  • Lens glare - agree

    Heavy class - agree, class has his strength but to a price which can be outplayed

    Assault - strongest class, extremely powerful heal, can reveal enemies at bottle necks, one shot body kill via vanguard (should be fully reworked, speed + ohk + stealth on minimap - i dislike such abilities for any non hero), extremely powerful thermal detonator and paired with the most powerful weapons

    Officier - Blurrg should be lower range, the SE44C should be more precise, SE5 is good, Turrets are junk as the explosion kills your own team and the lock on time is too long however the damage of them is decent

    Specialist - worst class, does too less for the objective - binoculars and infiltration need rework
  • Agree. Great post
  • blane_TIG wrote: »
    Lmgs need less spread and slightly more damage. Explosive sentry needs to do more vehicle damage and have less spread. It should be heavily anti vehicle since you can't move and fire

    this is very true, but especially for the TL50. They need to better reward burst fire over spray and pray. In general they need to have a tighter spread on full auto since you can't really lay down effective cover fire if the majority of your shots are going to be way off target. It's also silly that weapons with such long barrels have inferior range (ie spread) to the blaster pistols of officers.
  • Phoenix13 wrote: »
    Overall not a bad job in class balance. I think only a couple things need to get tweaked, with the exception of the specialist. Some games have that one class the devs just don't like or don't want to bother with and make you want to stop playing and post-beta specialist feels like that right now. Ill go through it the rest first.
    General mechanics
    Lens glare - should really be removed from the game or made to only appear outside in the open during the day when the gun is facing the sun. At the very least it should be reduced by 80% and applied to all weapons with scopes, not just specialists. Seriously, the only thing giving specialists a chance to survive with their meager health is stealth but a giant beacon, let alone the red tags, destroys this balance.

    Heavy
    this class I think is in a really good spot. People that complain tend to just not use it correctly. I personally don't have a hard time getting the most kills in Blast and sometimes mvp with it, but it isn't OP either. I have no change suggestions for it. I however havnt had experience with the tl50 and am slightly worried secondary fire could be over the top, but leave for now.
    Officer
    The abilities seem fine but it does have to be kept in mind that with the self buff, it has the highest hp in the game, which makes the already ridiculously strong weapons way over the top. Officer is a support class, which people often forget, and the weapons should really be more like they were in beta.
    Blurgg - mvp for most op weapon currently. It needs a damage reduction and significant range reduction
    Se-5 - also needs a damage reduction and significant range reduction
    You can kill snipers from afar without ADSing because you don't need headshots to kill anyone at any range with these.
    Assault
    Actually not in a bad spot or as op as some ppl claim, tho it is definitely an easy class to do well in
    - vanguard - slightly too strong. I would increase the spread to slightly shorten the range and maybe make it last a couple seconds shorter
    - killstreak vanguard - its supposed to be an upgrade, not sidegrade. Bring it's base time up either to match the other variants or to within 5sec of them. 1 kill should makes it last as long if not longer than the base. 2 kills and it should definitely already see benefits.
    - cr2 not op like ppl claim sure to it being useful only at shorter ranges. Leave it alone
    - a280c - could use a slight damage reduction. It is actually really strong. If lens glare is not removed, this should also cause it.
    - el-16hfe - slightly more recoil and possibly lower cooling at most. Possibly could leave this alone though.
    Specialist
    HP - specialists need more health or this game can't be balanced. Other classes having 50% to 100% more, ignoring officer buffs, is crazy. It's possible it needs 150hp, but in the interest of bit over -buffing like the over-nerf since beta, start by giving it 125hp. With 100, weapons cannot possibly be balanced and anything can kill a specialist, with many weapons able to kill it at range before one can even line up a shot.
    - lens glare - See above
    - infiltration - slight damage buff would be good, but not much more than that. Essentially give the ee4 a couple more meters of range would be sufficient.
    - killstreak infiltration - same changes as killstreak vanguard. It currently lasts half as long as the rest and it needs a couple kills to make it with it. Generally you are avoiding being close for long with specialist so it really isn't an upgrade at all. Probably should last as long as the rest, but a 7 second increase in time may be enough. Optionally make it a 5 second increase but decrease the time-reduction per shot by 50%.
    - shock grenade - still don't get why the stun was taken out. Now it is useless. Add the stun back in. At the very least, make it so anyone in the field can't dodge -roll or jump and Make fire rates of anyone in it 33% slower.
    - repulsor cannon - increase the range significantly. Currently enemies pretty much need to be in melee range to use it. Might as well just punch them.
    - nt-242 - again with this gun you are putting a big arrow pointing at the specialist for everyone to see. They need to remain stealthed to survive, even with a hp increase. Especially with this gun since it is so bad at close range. Remove the lingering green fog from it. thematically it makes no sense either side no other weapon had this including vehicle cannons. Also I'd consider increasing the bolt speed slightly and doing more damage at point blank range. (Why can pistols one hit kill at close range but not this cannon?). One more thing, if specialists health is increased, this damage should too to match, except that it should never do 150 damage to the body at range.
    - personal shield - this can be abused in current state using this plus infiltration, plus stealth, plus brawler. You can run around without a care punching people out unless enough people focus you down to pop the bubble. Reduce the active time of the shield to 10 seconds. This makes it useful as an "oh crud, get out" button or a quick punch and run, but not a sustained WWE style mass beat down.

    seems you love and favor Specialist. so no on that part. With the other parts, i can agree
  • willywonka7
    1428 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    Agree with a lost of this. Most of the specialist extra perks and abilities are way underpowered or useless. Only the shield is of use and it is abused already with the stealth and brawler ability.

    Repulsor cannon is useless right now as it only knocks people back a short range and they can get up pretty quick after that and shoot you before you can change weapons. EE4 infiltration is way underpowered now and needs a buff for sure. The laser trip mine is useless as everyone sees the laser and is like oh sure i'll walk past that, not! Most rooms are so big that it won't even hit them if you did use it. Trip mine should be more like bossk's mine now or like lando's ability. Shock grenade is utterly useless as well with 1sec slower walk and no weapon effect. Great so it does nothing essentially. Specialist is getting completely screwed with all of their lousy abilities. Shock grenade needs to work like chewys but just for a super small area, so like 1 or two people...unless three or four people are all standing right on top of each other.

    Most of the balances and buffs are needed for the specialist for sure.
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