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[Serious Topic] The Last Jedi, Feminism, Identity/Gender Politics and The Future of Star Wars...

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SoggyCocoaPuffs
209 posts Member
edited January 2018
SPOILERS. My first viewing of The Last Jedi I left feeling a bit let down. So many things that felt like a misstep in this movie and the franchise as a whole. Boring plot(slow chase through space), bad pacing, inconsistent tone, Marvel comedy, Canto Bite, Rose Finn forced romance, Rian Johnsons complete disregard of pre established plots and lore set up from TFA and previous films. The list can go on and on, despite this upon my second viewing I was able to look past some more petty issues and enjoy the film for what it was. Even now I'm not completely okay with what Rian did to Luke but I'm beginning to come to terms and just hope he will get a proper deserved conclusion in EP 9( I do think his death was incredibly beautiful with the twin suns and John Williams Binary Sunset just wish it happened in 9) the film is quite flawed but I can still enjoy it.

Now here is where my main and biggest issue comes in... I don't know if most people notice it, maybe I read too much into things but being the observant person I am I couldn't help but notice the blatantly obvious forced inclusion of Feminism, Identity/Gender Politics and other forced political messages and agendas. Now its not that I don't think these issues are important or that they should or shouldn't be included in Star Wars, my biggest issue is how they were presented and practically injected into the core of this film. It came off extremely obvious, jarring and out of place and did distract me a bit. I would prefer if all political/social agendas would stay out of Star Wars completely but we all know that isn't going to happen in this current toxic climate which is unfortunate. Now before you go calling me a bigot don't get it twisted. I am all for more female leads and inclusion for more people, Star Wars is universal and everyone wants to feel included and I think they should be. I'm all for more strong female leads, I love Leia shes a favorite, Ahsoka is just awesome, I loved the heroic Paige Tico at the beginning and admired her sacrifice and i also really liked Billie Lourds character as well.

Like I said its not the idea of these themes or messages that inherently bother me but the awful execution of them in the film. Throughout the film they constantly make the men look like bumbling dummies who need to be controlled and led by more capable women who do everything better. Again I don't care if a female is in charge, but then they go about turning Poe into some hot headed fly boy who disobeys orders just so that he can be put in place and disregarded by Purple hair Holdo. They turned Poe from a Daring heroic flyboy to a dummy who cant do anything right, disobeys orders and gets everyone killed... Even the entire resistance command bridge leadership is comprised of mostly females, my sister who I saw the movie with even pointed out that and how ridiculous she thought it was. And after all of this what happens? She tells not a single other person her plan and in the end waits so long while her transports are being decimated until she finally decides to blast into Snokes ship... Very epic scene and somewhat redeems her but she waited so long to only save two transports I believe... nicely done.

Then onto Finn, he goes off on probably the worst sub plot in history with the most boring shoehorned in character Rose Tico. I don't want to think she was included as a diversity quota but I can't help but think she was, perhaps an attempt to edge into the Chinese market(which failed horribly). She did nothing in this film other than spout not so subtle nonsensical political messages about the rich 1% being evil(ironic coming from Disney) and throwing in a contrived animal cruelty message as well. The two of them go on the most useless boring sub plots for what? to throw those messages in? to make Rose lead Finn and have him talk about how it was worth it to make them hurt? what? So they're justified ransacking the casino and peoples personally property probably even killing people on what? the assumption that they're all evil because they're rich and are probably weapons dealers... right... okay then. Then after all of that when we finally see growth in Finns character she completely ruins his heroic moment for a awful line about "saving what they love and not fighting what they hate" Ironically he was trying to save what he loved, he was trying to sacrifice himself to save the resistance. Then in comes goofy Rose Tico slamming into him at high speed to "save him" which was dumb and selfish. She took away his heroic moment, she could have killed him anyways and she let the first order blow open the base to kill the resistance inside. Also the forced romance that came out of nowhere and that awful kiss... that entire sequence had me cringing horribly.

Rey and Luke where do I begin... this is disappointing for me because when TFA came out everyone was calling her a Mary Sue and I just didn't want to believe it, I so wanted a good explanation for her incredible power, I wanted her to have flaws, I wanted her to lose a battle, I wanted her to fail and become better to grow as a character. Unfortunately that is not at all what we got... once again we got a super overpowered Rey who knows how to do everything perfect, can handle every bad guy on her own and who doesn't even train with Luke for more than a day or so and what she did was hardly training... most of Rey on Ahch-To was communicating with Kylo( which I actually loved) when we needed more of her learning and growing, failing and succeeding training with Luke and revealing her flaws. Perhaps it could be argued that her flaw is how easily she embraces the dark side without trying to resist it. Maybe but at the end of the day she comes off as a Flawless unrelatable superwoman with no flaws who doesn't need help. Unfortunately she really is the very definition of just a boring Mary Sue character... I really hope EP 9 does her justice and greatly improves her character because I really want to like her more than I do right now.

In my opinion this film was a mess, an enjoyable mess but still a mess. A film with inconsistent tone and pacing and filled to the brim with contrived agendas and female empowerment messages. Almost as if they felt they had to make up for the previous movies being mostly male perhaps even overcompensating for that very reason. I'm not saying these themes shouldn't be included at all but the way they were just came off wrong. Like I said the film felt messy, even ignoring the agendas being pushed. Yet all I've been seeing is article after article praising this film for these very things. Articles praising the film calling it "the most bold feminist Star Wars film ever" saying how "its exactly the film we need to oppose white men and their mansplaining"(kill me) I would think the general public wouldn't want these annoying contrived agendas in Star Wars but these seem to be the dominant reviews online. I've even seen articles praising the film for no longer having any white male leads (other than Kylo) and having a super diverse crowd of characters. Even an article saying how its great that much of the theme is in The Last Jedi is that men are wrong and need to be controlled and lead by woman who are much more wise, calm and controlled. Right of course because of us men and our "Toxic Masculinity"... yes I've even seen multiple articles praising the film for supposedly having females control men and their "Toxic Masculinity"

After seeing the film a few times now I still enjoy it but being the person that I am I still very much notice these underlying agendas and it does bother me. I feel even more bothered after reading so many of these hate filled articles of people that seem to think its such a great thing to make men look like dummies that need to be controlled or to get rid of all white males and consider it "progressive" to no longer have any white male leads and only people of colour... I'm completely all for more people of colour and inclusion but I didn't realize being progressive consisted of actively trying to rid the franchise of white men or make them look dumb. I didn't realize female empowerment is having the main character an unrealistic unrelatable Mary Sue, or introducing new female characters just so they can put men in their place and then die after getting half the resistance killed. Or How about including a character for the sole purpose of spewing nonsense to get those social/political messages into the film.

Was it really the movies intent to be like this? or is there a miscommunication between the film and these reviewers? Was the movie trying to push all of these politics and agendas so hard or did all of these reviewers take it upon themselves to bloat the narrative to fall in line with their beliefs and read too much into things. I'm not blind these blatant on the nose messages are definitely in the film and for a person like me who just wants to enjoy a good Star Wars film they are distracting. Do you really think it was their plan to "oppose mansplaining" do you think that they thought it was a "progressive" idea to get rid of all the white male leads? Were they really trying to present the idea that men are dumb and need to be controlled by more competent women or is that just reviewers seeing what they want to see? Were they really trying to push a message of women opposing mens so called "toxic masculinity" and putting them in their place? I don't know how I feel about all of this after seeing so many of these reviews it is making me doubt the film, making me wonder if lots of this truly was their intent to push these messages. If they really are trying to push these hardcore liberal, feminist, political correct and social messages and if so why? Because its popular? To fit in with current social and political trends? Could it be Kathleen Kennedy trying to push these agendas in the films? She hasn't been shy about her feminist views and she has said that she doesn't have to appeal to male fans. Lots of rumors about the reason so many directors have been fired is because they had visions that did not fall in line with hers. Could she be a cause of so many of the issues plaguing the New Trilogy? is she just bad leadership for the Star Wars brand, is she pushing too much of her own personal agenda?

I really don't know, I'm worried for the future of Star Wars... I did enjoy The Last Jedi in fact there were so many moments I loved, overall though it did very much feel like a disappointment and for some reason I can't help but feel Star Wars is heading down a bad path that I'm not sure if it can recover from. If the audience reviews of the film are anything to judge by I'd say it's already started going down that path . A path of movies filled with Political and Social agendas and comentary, bad comedy, boring plots, abysmal writing and lazily written characters . A movie franchise with characters and plots specifically engineered to push agendas and ideas, to follow trending social issues instead of being made for the purpose of good story telling... Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm just a sexist misogynistic bigot, it would be easy to call me that and disregard my opinion. I really want to like these movies, I really want to like Rey, I want to like where these stories are going and enjoy these movies for what they are... Maybe I'm just not that type of person, I guess I'm cynical. Maybe I'm reading too much into everything just like the people who post those articles. Maybe everything I've said throughout this post is completely wrong and I just need to be more "progressive" I really hope I am wrong about everything and these films will turn out great, I really hope pushing agendas isn't a priority for Star Wars. I really don't know what to think about my favorite franchise right now. All I know is I've got a bad feeling about this...
Post edited by SoggyCocoaPuffs on

Replies

  • Pjay
    285 posts Member
    Well said.
  • Pjay wrote: »
    Well said.

    Thanks for giving it a read, know it's long but it's been on my mind and just wanted to share my thoughts.
  • Truth has been spoken.
  • Inb4 lock for hatespeech
    Justice for Scipio
  • Inb4 lock for hatespeech

    Unfortunately I'm expecting it :/
  • So tired of American **** liberal propaganda spreading.
  • Makir1000 wrote: »
    So tired of American **** liberal propaganda spreading.

    So am I... but I'm also open to understanding and having a conversation on these issues. I'm guessing most people will just disregard our opinions as bigoted hate speech but I think my concerns are legitimate.
  • .....jjw5s3n12u401.png
  • Cad_Bane wrote: »
    .....jjw5s3n12u401.png

    Ha love this
  • did not read

    too Sirius
    Ace speeder pilot.
    http://bit.ly/2smYu2B playa from day 1 when shift was real
  • EightMile wrote: »
    did not read

    too Sirius

    Lol I figured it'd be the block o text, I tend to write a lot when it comes to this stuff
  • A large proportion of the audience were always going to scrutinize this trilogy from the perspective of 'liberal feminist agenda' when they cast a female lead and a black co-star. It was, sadly, inevitable.
    If people analyze anything from a non-neutral standpoint their opinion is already partly formed before they begin.

    For example -
    They didn't change Poe's character at all. We barely knew anything about him from TFA other than he's an excellent pilot with a sideline in charisma (he is the new trilogy's Han after all). In TLJ we find out he is also reckless, arrogant and selfish (Han again). They haven't changed him, he may not be what you want him to be but they've just expanded our knowledge of him.

    Leia trusts Holdo. Holdo does not trust her subordinates and as a result of her poor leadership prompts a mutiny and the deaths of a large proportion of the Resistance. She only pulls her awful plan back from total decimation by committing suicide. This demonstrates that Leia's judgement is flawed and Holdo is simply bad at her job. How this can be criticized as some sort of pro-feminist agenda is beyond me, I guess it depends on how you look at it.
    You will fall, as all Jedi must.
  • I couldn't agree more or have put it better than you did.
    I noticed these things throughout the movie too and my opinion was that the directors knew they were up against it and had no clue about how to produce a masterpiece so instead attempted to hit the average person with the "feels" via these social messages of equality and that the rich/powerful are evil.

    I won't lie, I thought the movie was absolutely terrible and I thought the same if not worse for EP 7. To me, Star Wars ended on Endor that night in EP 6. Everything after is nonsense
  • SoggyCocoaPuffs
    209 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    Psybernaut wrote: »
    A large proportion of the audience were always going to scrutinize this trilogy from the perspective of 'liberal feminist agenda' when they cast a female lead and a black co-star. It was, sadly, inevitable.
    If people analyze anything from a non-neutral standpoint their opinion is already partly formed before they begin.

    For example -
    They didn't change Poe's character at all. We barely knew anything about him from TFA other than he's an excellent pilot with a sideline in charisma (he is the new trilogy's Han after all). In TLJ we find out he is also reckless, arrogant and selfish (Han again). They haven't changed him, he may not be what you want him to be but they've just expanded our knowledge of him.

    Leia trusts Holdo. Holdo does not trust her subordinates and as a result of her poor leadership prompts a mutiny and the deaths of a large proportion of the Resistance. She only pulls her awful plan back from total decimation by committing suicide. This demonstrates that Leia's judgement is flawed and Holdo is simply bad at her job. How this can be criticized as some sort of pro-feminist agenda is beyond me, I guess it depends on how you look at it.

    If you read my post nothing about Finn being black or Rey being female has anything to do with obvious feminist agendas. I do not care that Finn is black or that Rey is female. I like both just how they are.

    My issues with Rey is that is a textbook Mary Sue character, no flaws, no character growth, perfect at everything. It's boring watching a character like this. I would feel the same if Rey was male. Characters like this just aren't that interesting to watch.

    Holdo again feels like another female character shoved in for the purpose of diversity and more female leads, but at what expense? A boring character with no depth who's only purpose is to put Poe in his place. Perhaps I'm thinking on how those feminist articles put it's, but they seem to believe Holdo is an amazing character and that she was needed in Star Wars to put men like Poe in place. Again could be wrong but I'm just questioning if this was actually the intention of the movie or just what SJWs and feminist want to see it as. Also I don't consider her bad leadership as a feminist thing. As far as what you said about her bad leadership and mistrust I completely agree. That's why I think she was a boring crappy character who got everyone killed. That's a character flaw of hers even if there wasn't the other agenda driven things.
  • SoggyCocoaPuffs
    209 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    You could be right about Poe though, perhaps he always has been that way, but it still felt forced in the way to make him a cocky uncontrollable man that needs to be put in place by Holdo. Idk I could be wrong, opinions everyone has one.
  • Cursedyou wrote: »
    I couldn't agree more or have put it better than you did.
    I noticed these things throughout the movie too and my opinion was that the directors knew they were up against it and had no clue about how to produce a masterpiece so instead attempted to hit the average person with the "feels" via these social messages of equality and that the rich/powerful are evil.

    I won't lie, I thought the movie was absolutely terrible and I thought the same if not worse for EP 7. To me, Star Wars ended on Endor that night in EP 6. Everything after is nonsense

    I too feel as though these movies are being rushed to fast, the things I enjoyed from the force awakens were completely disregard as if nothing mattered from that film or any previous Star Wars films. With the different directors and different visions clashing I feel as though they are practically making stuff up as they go along... I feel like it's showing with the lazy plot points that came out of the last Jedi.. I also think Rian Johnson thinks that making a bunch of twist and "gotcha didn't see that coming" moments makes a good film. I heard someone describe Rian Johnson as an edgelord... I would say that's pretty accurate
  • Psybernaut wrote: »
    A large proportion of the audience were always going to scrutinize this trilogy from the perspective of 'liberal feminist agenda' when they cast a female lead and a black co-star. It was, sadly, inevitable.
    If people analyze anything from a non-neutral standpoint their opinion is already partly formed before they begin.

    For example -
    They didn't change Poe's character at all. We barely knew anything about him from TFA other than he's an excellent pilot with a sideline in charisma (he is the new trilogy's Han after all). In TLJ we find out he is also reckless, arrogant and selfish (Han again). They haven't changed him, he may not be what you want him to be but they've just expanded our knowledge of him.

    Leia trusts Holdo. Holdo does not trust her subordinates and as a result of her poor leadership prompts a mutiny and the deaths of a large proportion of the Resistance. She only pulls her awful plan back from total decimation by committing suicide. This demonstrates that Leia's judgement is flawed and Holdo is simply bad at her job. How this can be criticized as some sort of pro-feminist agenda is beyond me, I guess it depends on how you look at it.

    If you read my post nothing about Finn being black or Rey being female has anything to do with obvious feminist agendas. I do not care that Finn is black or that Rey is female. I like both just how they are.

    My issues with Rey is that is a textbook Mary Sue character, no flaws, no character growth, perfect at everything. It's boring watching a character like this. I would feel the same if Rey was male. Characters like this just aren't that interesting to watch.

    Holdo again feels like another female character shoved in for the purpose of diversity and more female leads, but at what expense? A boring character with no depth who's only purpose is to put Poe in his place. Perhaps I'm thinking on how those feminist articles put it's, but they seem to believe Holdo is an amazing character and that she was needed in Star Wars to put men like Poe in place. Again could be wrong but I'm just questioning if this was actually the intention of the movie or just what SJWs and feminist want to see it as.

    I read all your post and I enjoyed it. My opening paragraph was not aimed at you but was a general umbrella explanation for a lot of the negativity aimed at these films.

    As I tried to show, Holdo is praised by one side as a great example of feminism at work when she is terrible as a leader. She is held up by the other side as forced feminism designed to subjugate men because that's what they see, not the awful plan or deaths she causes. Everyone is seeing what they want to see and stating their opinions as fact to further their own agendas not the film's.

    As for Rey, complaints that she is too powerful and learns too quickly when we don't yet know her origins (I'm currently going with she's a clone of someone - lots of copies of her in the cave and the image of her true parents was herself) makes it seems like people would be happier if she was weaker and dumber. This suggests a fear of strong smart women and we know that's a pretty prevalent reaction. I am happy to reassess this after the third film but for now I'm open minded about the whole thing.
    You will fall, as all Jedi must.
  • SoggyCocoaPuffs
    209 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    Psybernaut wrote: »
    Psybernaut wrote: »
    A large proportion of the audience were always going to scrutinize this trilogy from the perspective of 'liberal feminist agenda' when they cast a female lead and a black co-star. It was, sadly, inevitable.
    If people analyze anything from a non-neutral standpoint their opinion is already partly formed before they begin.

    For example -
    They didn't change Poe's character at all. We barely knew anything about him from TFA other than he's an excellent pilot with a sideline in charisma (he is the new trilogy's Han after all). In TLJ we find out he is also reckless, arrogant and selfish (Han again). They haven't changed him, he may not be what you want him to be but they've just expanded our knowledge of him.

    Leia trusts Holdo. Holdo does not trust her subordinates and as a result of her poor leadership prompts a mutiny and the deaths of a large proportion of the Resistance. She only pulls her awful plan back from total decimation by committing suicide. This demonstrates that Leia's judgement is flawed and Holdo is simply bad at her job. How this can be criticized as some sort of pro-feminist agenda is beyond me, I guess it depends on how you look at it.

    If you read my post nothing about Finn being black or Rey being female has anything to do with obvious feminist agendas. I do not care that Finn is black or that Rey is female. I like both just how they are.

    My issues with Rey is that is a textbook Mary Sue character, no flaws, no character growth, perfect at everything. It's boring watching a character like this. I would feel the same if Rey was male. Characters like this just aren't that interesting to watch.

    Holdo again feels like another female character shoved in for the purpose of diversity and more female leads, but at what expense? A boring character with no depth who's only purpose is to put Poe in his place. Perhaps I'm thinking on how those feminist articles put it's, but they seem to believe Holdo is an amazing character and that she was needed in Star Wars to put men like Poe in place. Again could be wrong but I'm just questioning if this was actually the intention of the movie or just what SJWs and feminist want to see it as.

    I read all your post and I enjoyed it. My opening paragraph was not aimed at you but was a general umbrella explanation for a lot of the negativity aimed at these films.

    As I tried to show, Holdo is praised by one side as a great example of feminism at work when she is terrible as a leader. She is held up by the other side as forced feminism designed to subjugate men because that's what they see, not the awful plan or deaths she causes. Everyone is seeing what they want to see and stating their opinions as fact to further their own agendas not the film's.

    As for Rey, complaints that she is too powerful and learns too quickly when we don't yet know her origins (I'm currently going with she's a clone of someone - lots of copies of her in the cave and the image of her true parents was herself) makes it seems like people would be happier if she was weaker and dumber. This suggests a fear of strong smart women and we know that's a pretty prevalent reaction. I am happy to reassess this after the third film but for now I'm open minded about the whole thing.

    Oh okay my bad I thought you had misunderstood my post, clearly I was the one who misunderstood yours lol.

    And yes you're absolutely right about the Holdo situation and the biases that we already have and use it as a justification for view. The feminist will just see her as a "Bold" new great leader yet ignore that she is absolutely an awful leader. And I perhaps focus too much on the agenda issues giving her more credit then she is due instead of focusing on the biggest issue that she is just an awful leader.

    If you really think about it even if they did use her as a tool to push these agendas it ultimately fails because she as a character does not have the Merit to push these. So even if that was an intention of the film instead of seeing Holdo as pushing a feminist agenda, it's really more so she is just an arrogant bad leader in over her head trying to use her rank to get around things. Thinking about it this way she's hardly putting Poe in place Because with her bad leadership skills she really isn't in any position to put anyone in their place.

    I like your thinking on the Holdo situation. With Rey I also to will wait and see what they provide in 9. Can't pass whole judgement yet, I to hope we have some great reveal to explain everything about her. Though I do think she could use more flaws and character growth as it is not that interesting with her being so amazing at everything. Hopefully we will see her struggle in 9 and learn to overcome somethings.
  • A movie series about a galactic civil war has political messages? How unexpected...
  • Uh...its 2018. You can't be saying these sort of things! Just kidding. TLJ is trash ruined by liberal **** and weaklings pandering to it.
  • Star Wars really needs to stand up for the national anthem or else they should fire them! Not in my America!
  • SoggyCocoaPuffs
    209 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    Psybernaut wrote: »
    Psybernaut wrote: »
    A large proportion of the audience were always going to scrutinize this trilogy from the perspective of 'liberal feminist agenda' when they cast a female lead and a black co-star. It was, sadly, inevitable.
    If people analyze anything from a non-neutral standpoint their opinion is already partly formed before they begin.

    For example -
    They didn't change Poe's character at all. We barely knew anything about him from TFA other than he's an excellent pilot with a sideline in charisma (he is the new trilogy's Han after all). In TLJ we find out he is also reckless, arrogant and selfish (Han again). They haven't changed him, he may not be what you want him to be but they've just expanded our knowledge of him.

    Leia trusts Holdo. Holdo does not trust her subordinates and as a result of her poor leadership prompts a mutiny and the deaths of a large proportion of the Resistance. She only pulls her awful plan back from total decimation by committing suicide. This demonstrates that Leia's judgement is flawed and Holdo is simply bad at her job. How this can be criticized as some sort of pro-feminist agenda is beyond me, I guess it depends on how you look at it.

    If you read my post nothing about Finn being black or Rey being female has anything to do with obvious feminist agendas. I do not care that Finn is black or that Rey is female. I like both just how they are.

    My issues with Rey is that is a textbook Mary Sue character, no flaws, no character growth, perfect at everything. It's boring watching a character like this. I would feel the same if Rey was male. Characters like this just aren't that interesting to watch.

    Holdo again feels like another female character shoved in for the purpose of diversity and more female leads, but at what expense? A boring character with no depth who's only purpose is to put Poe in his place. Perhaps I'm thinking on how those feminist articles put it's, but they seem to believe Holdo is an amazing character and that she was needed in Star Wars to put men like Poe in place. Again could be wrong but I'm just questioning if this was actually the intention of the movie or just what SJWs and feminist want to see it as.

    I read all your post and I enjoyed it. My opening paragraph was not aimed at you but was a general umbrella explanation for a lot of the negativity aimed at these films.

    As I tried to show, Holdo is praised by one side as a great example of feminism at work when she is terrible as a leader. She is held up by the other side as forced feminism designed to subjugate men because that's what they see, not the awful plan or deaths she causes. Everyone is seeing what they want to see and stating their opinions as fact to further their own agendas not the film's.

    As for Rey, complaints that she is too powerful and learns too quickly when we don't yet know her origins (I'm currently going with she's a clone of someone - lots of copies of her in the cave and the image of her true parents was herself) makes it seems like people would be happier if she was weaker and dumber. This suggests a fear of strong smart women and we know that's a pretty prevalent reaction. I am happy to reassess this after the third film but for now I'm open minded about the whole thing.

    I just posted a reply to yours but it seemed to have disappeared.
    My bad as well, I thought you had misunderstood my post when I was the one who misunderstood yours.

    On the subject of Holdo you're absolutely right, both sides are using her as a justification to confirm their own views on it. The feminist are praising her as a "bold" great leader in a mostly male franchise putting men in their place... except she isn't.. she is an awful leader who got so many people killed. I suppose I as well am focusing too much on the agenda stuff when really her biggest issue is that shes an awful leader.

    If you really think about it, even if the films intention was to use her as some agenda pushing tool it doesn't really work, She doesn't have the merit to even push those things. Shes a bad leader who made bad decisions and got people killed. In fact I would hardly say she was putting Poe in his place since she isn't in the position to do so. As the person in charge she did nothing to let everyone know that there was a plan, she seemed arrogant and in over her head, If anything she was just pulling rank on Poe to avoid issue. I guess some may see that as her putting him in his place but really I guess I see it more as being cocky and using rank to shut down any criticism of her command.

    Im also waiting to see what happens with Rey, Hopefully we get some good reasoning behind her insane abilities. Id also like to see her struggle and have to learn and grow as a character. I personally don't care if we have a strong female, I don't care if Rey is a complete wrecking machine. Which she pretty much is. It's just that I want more depth to a character than that, I want to go on a journey with her, see her struggles, see how she learns from them and becomes the best she can be. I don't know, it just feels lacking when she's super good at everything, feels like part of her story is missing. I think it's something that will have to be explored more in 9 to give some more depth to her other than just being the ultimate Jedi. I think my favorite moment with Rey is when she's making food in her home. Then she goes out and puts on the rebel helmet, with the desire for adventure and purpose. Idk but going from that to being the ultimate Jedi in 1 film just felt strange like we missed the journey and we're already at the end game. Again hopefully 9 gives her more depth.
    Post edited by SoggyCocoaPuffs on
  • Rotaugen wrote: »
    A movie series about a galactic civil war has political messages? How unexpected...

    Sure in universe political messages that make sense are fine, even if some mirror real life issues. However I doubt feminism, identity politics, animal cruelty and other social issues are that Important to the First Order or the Resistance.
  • BatmansAGeordie
    156 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    I find the whole SJW finding something to be offended by everywhere they turn absolutely ridiculous but claiming everything to be identity/gender politics is just as bad. I didnt see any of that in this movie at all. Everyone was consistent with the character established in TFA.

    Poe is a hot headed fly boy and I find it a weird complaint, that many make, that Holdo should of shared her plans. He just disobeyed orders and got a lot of people killed and lost all their bombers which they could really use at that point. Why would she share her plans? She is Admiral at that time and Poe is several ranks lower and storms in demanding to know the plan, no self respecting authoroty figure would entertain the thought. Its not like Holdo knows Poe is a lead in the movie so should tell him the plot point.

    I think Rey is as powerful as she is because she is the chosen one for this era, she is basically super talented. Just like Anakin, Luke or any powerful force user. 99.9% of the most powerful forcr users also dont have any direct lineage to other force users so I dont think her parentage could of solved this anyway. There are thousands of jedi that had 1000x the amount of training that Luke had but didnt come close to his power. Rey does have struggles, just not with the force. She struggles to find her place, she struggles to leave/stay away from Jakku and longs for a sense of belonging and family.

    Plenty other points but this post is already super long. Leia could just have more trust in women and therefore surrounds herself with them. The Rose character is in no way impacted by her race, this is a galaxy far far away where we have all kinds of aliens but people raise their eyebrows at an Asian woman? To me being outraged by all this just as bad as SJW being outraged because you havent took time to learn the 50+ pronouns they want you to use.
    Post edited by BatmansAGeordie on
  • Your masculinity gets rekts because white males are no longer in charge. Im drinking your tears now. Someone has to controll your di...

    6aw3vw8uep501.jpg
  • DarthJ
    6051 posts Member
    JSA_Eruman wrote: »
    Your masculinity gets rekts because white males are no longer in charge. Im drinking your tears now. Someone has to controll your di...

    6aw3vw8uep501.jpg

    This image is gender discrimination against males!

    See, it can be played both ways
    PSN: ibrajoker59
  • JSA_Eruman wrote: »
    Your masculinity gets rekts because white males are no longer in charge. Im drinking your tears now. Someone has to controll your di...

    6aw3vw8uep501.jpg

    See now this is exactly what I'm talking about lol, The idea that people are upset just because white males are no longer in charge is not the issue, I could care less. What I do care about is people like her Kathleen Kennedy who is very feminist making remarks about how she doesn't have to cater to males, or people acting as if it's a good thing that they think men need to be put in place and controlled. Or that they are happy all white males are being removed from Star Wars. It's type of talk like that which is an issue, they claim to be progressive and inclusive but what it seems they mean by that is inclusive to people of any thing other than being white. Sometimes it really does seem that inclusive doesn't include white men, and instead has them straight up discriminated against. Now I'm not crying like some SJW, but just calling it how I see it.
  • DarthJ wrote: »
    JSA_Eruman wrote: »
    Your masculinity gets rekts because white males are no longer in charge. Im drinking your tears now. Someone has to controll your di...

    6aw3vw8uep501.jpg

    This image is gender discrimination against males!

    See, it can be played both ways

    Noone gives a **** about you or males. Look at what happened to Luke Skybum. Its the patriarchy who blinds you and cannot see our fight against the system.

    6d6.jpg
  • JSA_Eruman wrote: »
    DarthJ wrote: »
    JSA_Eruman wrote: »
    Your masculinity gets rekts because white males are no longer in charge. Im drinking your tears now. Someone has to controll your di...

    6aw3vw8uep501.jpg

    This image is gender discrimination against males!

    See, it can be played both ways

    Noone gives a **** about you or males. Look at what happened to Luke Skybum. Its the patriarchy who blinds you and cannot see our fight against the system.

    6d6.jpg

    LOL
  • Wow, I didn't have time to read the entire post, but what I read was exactly what needed to be said. Thank you.
    I had a dream, that one day on the sweet hills of Georgia, everybody will be able to play the Star Wars game they've always wanted.
  • You and 51% of rotten tomatoes agree.

    TLJ was a post-modernist, neo-marxist wet dream.
  • JSA_Eruman wrote: »
    Your masculinity gets rekts because white males are no longer in charge. Im drinking your tears now. Someone has to controll your di...

    6aw3vw8uep501.jpg

    See now this is exactly what I'm talking about lol, The idea that people are upset just because white males are no longer in charge is not the issue, I could care less. What I do care about is people like her Kathleen Kennedy who is very feminist making remarks about how she doesn't have to cater to males, or people acting as if it's a good thing that they think men need to be put in place and controlled. Or that they are happy all white males are being removed from Star Wars. It's type of talk like that which is an issue, they claim to be progressive and inclusive but what it seems they mean by that is inclusive to people of any thing other than being white. Sometimes it really does seem that inclusive doesn't include white men, and instead has them straight up discriminated against. Now I'm not crying like some SJW, but just calling it how I see it.

    I know man, this movie is RIDICULOUS. There are some carebears, pinkywinkie, SJW out there that think that having an asian actress is good because then, asian people can be identify as her in the movie... **** RIDICULOUS AS FUCKK. How the hell can people say that?

    I have watched all the movies and i dont need to be asian to be identify as the asian guy that appears in the movie, its nonsense. Im from spain-canary island and i can be identify as lando, captain america, wolverine, wonder woman or whatever my rainbow purple color hair i want! Its just so racist to say that if an asian is included people can be identify with just make me sick.

    Leia in the past was a strong woman, who was in charge and dont say even thank you at males when they rescue her. She fought too and fall in love with the bad guy. Padme was a woman that was suppose to lead the SENATE, she also fought in the clone wars too without a doubt because was the correct thing to do.

    But now? You have an assian girl who seems to be REALLY forced to have a nonsense romance with a blackguy Finn, which kiss was awful as fu.. and man, the problem i have with the character is that she does N - O - T - H - I - N - G. Absolutely nothing, they dont even try to connect her sister that passed away with her showing a scene before she went to that bomber... They just put a whatever the hell was in her neck or pocket and thats it? are you serious?

    She ruined the epic moment of finn... he was going to sacrifice his life for what he loved, the resistance, humanity. BUT instead this 9087hadkjfhaksjdfhakñjsdfhkjlahdfkjh asian girl destroyed her momentum saying "you have to whateverblablabla rainbowfeministidontcare" and kissing her crush... give me a break. I was completely mindblowed in that moment that i look to the rest of the audience and i can promise you that some were totally SLEEPING.
  • rocketpig
    624 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    Psybernaut wrote: »
    A large proportion of the audience were always going to scrutinize this trilogy from the perspective of 'liberal feminist agenda' when they cast a female lead and a black co-star. It was, sadly, inevitable.
    If people analyze anything from a non-neutral standpoint their opinion is already partly formed before they begin.

    For example -
    They didn't change Poe's character at all. We barely knew anything about him from TFA other than he's an excellent pilot with a sideline in charisma (he is the new trilogy's Han after all). In TLJ we find out he is also reckless, arrogant and selfish (Han again). They haven't changed him, he may not be what you want him to be but they've just expanded our knowledge of him.

    Leia trusts Holdo. Holdo does not trust her subordinates and as a result of her poor leadership prompts a mutiny and the deaths of a large proportion of the Resistance. She only pulls her awful plan back from total decimation by committing suicide. This demonstrates that Leia's judgement is flawed and Holdo is simply bad at her job. How this can be criticized as some sort of pro-feminist agenda is beyond me, I guess it depends on how you look at it.

    Ding ding ding.

    Maybe some of you are numb to this fact because you've watched the OT so many times but Han is wrong far more often than he is right, especially in ANH. Poe is the new Han.

    And when you walk out of TLJ, Poe is set up to be the de facto leader of the Resistance. Leia herself says it.

    That's called a character arc, not SJW feminism. If women are meant to be put on a pedestal in this film, why are they handing control of the new rebellion to a dude?

    While I'm on the subject, how are so many people glossing over the fact that Rey **** up? She ran off impetuously to "save" Kylo, thinking she was the next Luke Skywalker. How'd that turn out for her? She gave Kylo the impetus to irreversibly turn to the dark side and take over the First Order. In the history of galactic mistakes, that's a pretty big one.

    And what about Holdo? Her failure to communicate and trust in her subordinates led to the utter destruction of the Resistance.

    And what about Rose? Not once did she say "this is a terrible plan", going along with Finn's dimwitted ideas which also contributed to the utter destruction of the Resistance.

    What about Connix, Carrie Fisher's real world daughter? She went along with Poe's terrible idea. That's a lot of women making a lot of mistakes in this film.

    So maybe some of yo are seeing part of the actual theme of this movie but ignoring the rest.

    Failure. EVERYONE FAILS IN THIS FILM. But for some reason, some of you are only seeing male failure.

    Why?
  • I find the whole SJW finding something to be offended by everywhere they turn absolutely ridiculous but claiming everything to be identity/gender politics is just as bad. I didnt see any of that in this movie at all. Everyone was consistent with the character established in TFA.

    Poe is a hot headed fly boy and I find it a weird complaint, that many make, that Holdo should of shared her plans. He just disobeyed orders and got a lot of people killed and lost all their bombers which they could really use at that point. Why would she share her plans? She is Admiral at that time and Poe is several ranks lower and storms in demanding to know the plan, no self respecting authoroty figure would entertain the thought. Its not like Holdo knows Poe is a lead in the movie so should tell him the plot point.

    I think Rey is as powerful as she is because she is the chosen one for this era, she is basically super talented. Just like Anakin, Luke or any powerful force user. 99.9% of the most powerful forcr users also dont have any direct lineage to other force users so I dont think her parentage could of solved this anyway. There are thousands of jedi that had 1000x the amount of training that Luke had but didnt come close to his power. Rey does have struggles, just not with the force. She struggles to find her place, she struggles to leave/stay away from Jakku and longs for a sense of belonging and family.

    Plenty other points but this post is already super long. Leia could just have more trust in women and therefore surrounds herself with them. The Rose character is in no way impacted by her race, this is a galaxy far far away where we have all kinds of aliens but people raise their eyebrows at an Asian woman? To me being outraged by all this just as bad as SJW being outraged because you havent took time to learn the 50+ pronouns they want you to use.

    1. I agree finding everything to be feminist propaganda etc is just as bad as SJWs being offended by everything.
    2. If you really didn't see any identity politics or any political messages then I suggest try listening to other people who might articulate it better than myself.
    3. Now sure I do somewhat agree Poe was always like that. Now in terms of a military sure, he was demoted and yes he got people killed so does he deserve to know the plan? Maybe not... But consider this, the entire resistance leadership had just been completely wiped out and there was literally like 500 resistance fighters left. I think at that point it's fair game for the admiral to tell everyone the plan. They need hope they need to know what they are doing. Otherwise for all they know they are sitting ducks running out of fuel being chased down to the death. Hell even in ESB when evacuating Leia told all the common troops and pilots the plan of evacuation.
    4. I don't question Asian women, I don't care at all. You misunderstood what I meant. Heck I even said I really liked Paige. All I said was that for some reason I get the feeling that rose in particular was some sort of diversity hire to fill quota and possibly try and gain viewership in China. Just an assumption and a seemingly possible one in my opinion.
  • rocketpig wrote: »
    Psybernaut wrote: »
    A large proportion of the audience were always going to scrutinize this trilogy from the perspective of 'liberal feminist agenda' when they cast a female lead and a black co-star. It was, sadly, inevitable.
    If people analyze anything from a non-neutral standpoint their opinion is already partly formed before they begin.

    For example -
    They didn't change Poe's character at all. We barely knew anything about him from TFA other than he's an excellent pilot with a sideline in charisma (he is the new trilogy's Han after all). In TLJ we find out he is also reckless, arrogant and selfish (Han again). They haven't changed him, he may not be what you want him to be but they've just expanded our knowledge of him.

    Leia trusts Holdo. Holdo does not trust her subordinates and as a result of her poor leadership prompts a mutiny and the deaths of a large proportion of the Resistance. She only pulls her awful plan back from total decimation by committing suicide. This demonstrates that Leia's judgement is flawed and Holdo is simply bad at her job. How this can be criticized as some sort of pro-feminist agenda is beyond me, I guess it depends on how you look at it.

    Ding ding ding.

    Maybe some of you are numb to this fact because you've watched the OT so many times but Han is wrong far more often than he is right, especially in ANH. Poe is the new Han.

    And when you walk out of TLJ, Poe is set up to be the de facto leader of the Resistance. Leia herself says it.

    That's called a character arc, not SJW feminism. If women are meant to be put on a pedestal in this film, why are they handing control of the new rebellion to a dude?

    While I'm on the subject, how are so many people glossing over the fact that Rey **** up? She ran off impetuously to "save" Kylo, thinking she was the next Luke Skywalker. How'd that turn out for her? She gave Kylo the impetus to irreversibly turn to the dark side and take over the First Order. In the history of galactic mistakes, that's a pretty big one.

    And what about Holdo? Her failure to communicate and trust in her subordinates led to the utter destruction of the Resistance.

    And what about Rose? Not once did she say "this is a terrible plan", going along with Finn's dimwitted ideas which also contributed to the utter destruction of the Resistance.

    What about Connix, Carrie Fisher's real world daughter? She went along with Poe's terrible idea. That's a lot of women making a lot of mistakes in this film.

    So maybe some of yo are seeing part of the actual theme of this movie but ignoring the rest.

    Failure. EVERYONE FAILS IN THIS FILM. But for some reason, some of you are only seeing male failure.

    Why?

    No as I've stated I definitely see the female counter part failures as well. Holdo is an awful leader, rose is a dummy who does dumb things, even Rey fails as she embraces the dark side easily and like you said thought she could turn Kylo. You're right about lots of that, however that doesn't quite dismiss every other issue of them shoving annoying social and political agendas and messages into core parts of the film. Maybe some people just don't care as much but for me it is distracting.
  • They need to keep sharia law out of mah Star Wars! I don't go to the movies to see politics. Unless it's politics I agree with, of course.
  • rocketpig wrote: »
    Psybernaut wrote: »
    A large proportion of the audience were always going to scrutinize this trilogy from the perspective of 'liberal feminist agenda' when they cast a female lead and a black co-star. It was, sadly, inevitable.
    If people analyze anything from a non-neutral standpoint their opinion is already partly formed before they begin.

    For example -
    They didn't change Poe's character at all. We barely knew anything about him from TFA other than he's an excellent pilot with a sideline in charisma (he is the new trilogy's Han after all). In TLJ we find out he is also reckless, arrogant and selfish (Han again). They haven't changed him, he may not be what you want him to be but they've just expanded our knowledge of him.

    Leia trusts Holdo. Holdo does not trust her subordinates and as a result of her poor leadership prompts a mutiny and the deaths of a large proportion of the Resistance. She only pulls her awful plan back from total decimation by committing suicide. This demonstrates that Leia's judgement is flawed and Holdo is simply bad at her job. How this can be criticized as some sort of pro-feminist agenda is beyond me, I guess it depends on how you look at it.

    Ding ding ding.

    Maybe some of you are numb to this fact because you've watched the OT so many times but Han is wrong far more often than he is right, especially in ANH. Poe is the new Han.

    And when you walk out of TLJ, Poe is set up to be the de facto leader of the Resistance. Leia herself says it.

    That's called a character arc, not SJW feminism. If women are meant to be put on a pedestal in this film, why are they handing control of the new rebellion to a dude?

    While I'm on the subject, how are so many people glossing over the fact that Rey **** up? She ran off impetuously to "save" Kylo, thinking she was the next Luke Skywalker. How'd that turn out for her? She gave Kylo the impetus to irreversibly turn to the dark side and take over the First Order. In the history of galactic mistakes, that's a pretty big one.

    And what about Holdo? Her failure to communicate and trust in her subordinates led to the utter destruction of the Resistance.

    And what about Rose? Not once did she say "this is a terrible plan", going along with Finn's dimwitted ideas which also contributed to the utter destruction of the Resistance.

    What about Connix, Carrie Fisher's real world daughter? She went along with Poe's terrible idea. That's a lot of women making a lot of mistakes in this film.

    So maybe some of yo are seeing part of the actual theme of this movie but ignoring the rest.

    Failure. EVERYONE FAILS IN THIS FILM. But for some reason, some of you are only seeing male failure.

    Why?

    No as I've stated I definitely see the female counter part failures as well. Holdo is an awful leader, rose is a dummy who does dumb things, even Rey fails as she embraces the dark side easily and like you said thought she could turn Kylo. You're right about lots of that, however that doesn't quite dismiss every other issue of them shoving annoying social and political agendas and messages into core parts of the film. Maybe some people just don't care as much but for me it is distracting.

    You're certainly entitled to your opinion and whether you like or dislike the film.

    But if the women fail as often and as hard as the men, where is the identity politics? I don't see it. I only see failure across the board. Hell, Kylo might be the most competent character in the entire film if you ding Leia for going down during the most critical time for the Resistance.

    I understand that many of you dislike the political overtures of this film but the original trilogy was steeped in anti-American sentiment (the Rebellion was the North Vietnamese army, the Emperor was Nixon) and the prequel trilogy is bursting at the seams with criticism of Bush's America. Hell, even the two most powerful people in the Rebellion were women and they were introduced way back in 1977/1983.

    All those things were and are part of Star Wars. The Last Jedi is little different in that regard, the concepts are simply modern.
  • Me: I don't think people should inject their personal politics into a movie they're making. People don't go to the movies to see that.

    Also me: posts political interpretation of a movie on a video game forum
  • RibPioneer wrote: »
    They need to keep sharia law out of mah Star Wars! I don't go to the movies to see politics. Unless it's politics I agree with, of course.

    This is quite a straw man argument and an exaggeration. Considering a huge amount of people also have issue with it I'd say some of my points are legitimate. Plus if I had my choice I would have no social/political agendas put in the film. So no it's not I just want what I agree with it's that I don't wanna any of it being shoved into Star Wars in general.
  • You're certainly entitled to your opinion and whether you like or dislike the film.

    But if the women fail as often as the men, where is the identity politics? I don't see it, I only see failure from everyone. Kylo might be the most competent character in the entire film if you ding Leia for going down during the most critical time for the Resistance. He screws up at the end but achieves his larger goal where Rey fails to achieve hers.

    I understand that many of you dislike the political overtures of this film but the original trilogy was steeped in anti-American sentiment (the Rebellion was the North Vietnamese army, the Emperor was Nixon) and the prequel trilogy is bursting at the seams with criticism of Bush's America. Even the two most powerful people in the Rebellion were women and they were introduced way back in 1977/1983.

    All those things were and are part of Star Wars. The Last Jedi is little different in that regard, the concepts are simply modern.
  • RibPioneer wrote: »
    Me: I don't think people should inject their personal politics into a movie they're making. People don't go to the movies to see that.

    Also me: posts political interpretation of a movie on a video game forum

    Just sharing my opinion of a film I watched, no one has to come and talk about it. This is nothing like going to watch a movie personal politics injected into it.
  • rocketpig wrote: »
    You're certainly entitled to your opinion and whether you like or dislike the film.

    But if the women fail as often as the men, where is the identity politics? I don't see it, I only see failure from everyone. Kylo might be the most competent character in the entire film if you ding Leia for going down during the most critical time for the Resistance. He screws up at the end but achieves his larger goal where Rey fails to achieve hers.

    I understand that many of you dislike the political overtures of this film but the original trilogy was steeped in anti-American sentiment (the Rebellion was the North Vietnamese army, the Emperor was Nixon) and the prequel trilogy is bursting at the seams with criticism of Bush's America. Even the two most powerful people in the Rebellion were women and they were introduced way back in 1977/1983.

    All those things were and are part of Star Wars. The Last Jedi is little different in that regard, the concepts are simply modern.

    Dont get me wrong I do not hate this film, it's still an enjoyable experience albeit a somewhat messy one. Even without the some of the things I consider contrived political and social messages the movie is still quite a mess structurally and tonally with pacing all over the place. There are definitely messages and agendas in this film and yes you're right the original Star Wars had them as well. Perhaps it is just more relevant at this day and age for the issues involved. Maybe it's my own personal problem maybe I need to be more "progressive" but for me I roll my eyes at animal cruelty messages in Star Wars, I cringe at the evil rich 1% message especially when it's coming from Disney. Them saying how the rich people deserved getting their place torn up and property destroyed and even some probably killed. I guess stuff like that just annoys me especially when it seems quite relevant in today's day and age where people seem to blame the rich for everything, or consider anyone who has money a bad person. Stuff like this is annoying politics that just feel so out of place in a Star Wars film along with other things in the film. So many of you seem to be assuming that I just hate all social/ political issues. I never said that, in fact I said I'm okay with them being in movies, it's bound to happen anyways. I just personally feel the way it was handled in The Last Jedi was just a bit to on the nose. Maybe some people enjoy seeing this things but for me I don't want the political and social undertones and agendas to feel as if they are a main driving force in the plot. I don't know maybe I'm off base, but for me at least they felt to heavy in this movie.

    Also one of my biggest points wasn't necessarily what I think, while I did share my opinion. My bigger point was talking about all the review sites who praise this movie as some feminist achievement, or praising how it's so great because they're getting rid of white males. My bigger point was do you think that was the intention that the filmmakers we're going for or do you think it's just SJWs trying to turn it into stuff that it is not. Honestly while I am annoyed at many of the things in this movie it is more specifically these awful hateful articles that I have issue with and concern if that was the idea that the movie was going for.
  • Just deleted a giant response to all this. This forum isn't the time or the place to debate politics.
  • TonyGoombah1
    1324 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    JSA_Eruman wrote: »
    DarthJ wrote: »
    JSA_Eruman wrote: »
    Your masculinity gets rekts because white males are no longer in charge. Im drinking your tears now. Someone has to controll your di...

    6aw3vw8uep501.jpg

    This image is gender discrimination against males!

    See, it can be played both ways

    Noone gives a **** about you or males. Look at what happened to Luke Skybum. Its the patriarchy who blinds you and cannot see our fight against the system.

    6d6.jpg

    That girls hair/bangs/eyebrows are so messed up she probably gets those tears when guys look at her. Typical feminist. Wouldn't flatter yourself, no men are out to get to you so you can rest easy.
    kay4dnh923zs.png
  • RibPioneer wrote: »
    Just deleted a giant response to all this. This forum isn't the time or the place to debate politics.

    Really was never Trying to get into a huge debate about politics, just wanted to share my opinion and concerns with the film and franchise at the moment. As well as getting others opinions on all these articles praising the movie for extreme SJW messages and if the filmmakers intended that.
  • "praising how it's so great because they're getting rid of white males"

    Eh... this is dumb. For starters. It also never happened. Not once. You're just wrong.
  • RibPioneer wrote: »
    "praising how it's so great because they're getting rid of white males"

    Eh... this is dumb. For starters. It also never happened. Not once. You're just wrong.

    Omg... Are you dense... I never said that happened. IM TALKING ABOUT ARTICLES SAYING THAT. NOT ME.
  • RibPioneer wrote: »
    "praising how it's so great because they're getting rid of white males"

    Eh... this is dumb. For starters. It also never happened. Not once. You're just wrong.

    Omg... Are you dense... I never said that happened. IM TALKING ABOUT ARTICLES SAYING THAT. NOT ME.

    No article ever praised this movie for "getting rid of white males"
  • You're using hyperbole to make this whole thing fit into a political narrative that paints white males as victims whilst also claiming to be against identity politics.
  • You're seeing what you want to see and making it gel with your own perspective. Like a Rorschach test. This might be an interperation that people share, but it doesn't make it correct.

    If all you have is a hammer, all you see are nails. If you regularly digest content that's telling you that this narrative of "getting rid of white males" exists, then you'll start to see it in the damnedest of places.
This discussion has been closed.

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