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Is anyone a game designer?

Jug
184 posts Member
Is anyone a game designer?
How hard is it really to implement changes, fix bugs, create skins and maps, etc?

Replies

  • Evazan127
    8105 posts Member
    People think that everything is easy to add, which it might be, but we have no idea the difficulty of this stuff.
  • Jug
    184 posts Member
    Yeah that's why I'm wondering not blaming
  • Evazan127
    8105 posts Member
    Jug wrote: »
    Yeah that's why I'm wondering not blaming
    Sorry I’m yelling at you even though I’m mad at others.
  • StarWars0525
    2237 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Jug wrote: »
    Is anyone a game designer?
    How hard is it really to implement changes, fix bugs, create skins and maps, etc?

    I’m not a game designer but I’m am studying in that course in college right now. To create fixes are not really too difficult it you know where to look so depending on the bug or crash I say it could take up to a hour through a week roughly but most bugs generally take around a hour average. Some even take a few minutes just depends TBH. Then you have sjibs which are really not too difficult to create since you have a base model already with built in game mechanics and star cards so they should only take a few moments depending on how much work you put into them unless there a legendary skin then it does generally takes a bit longer usually a day or two depending on varables like number of developers working on the skin. Maps for me at least are the most difficult thing to make in a game because they take a lot of effort and time to create especially setting them up for playing to play on them like running, shooting or flying. Maps need to be big enough where when you run out of bounds for 10 seconds as someone fast there would be plenty of the map left so you wouldn’t reach the end. The second hardest thing in a game is creating a character and it’s movements. Trust me building a character model sometimes can be very frustrating especially trying to get it to move the way you want it to move which is why when you play as some hero’s they crash because of some of the skills built into them contradicts other skills. Hope this was helpful. Trust me the time put into maps and hero’s are very painful especially if you don’t have enough time and resources for it but skins and certain bugs are pretty simple to add. Just to note maps and hero’s ate both difficult.
  • StarWars0525
    2237 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Here’s a scale of difficulty from 1 being pretty easy to 10 extremely difficult, some stuff depends so I’m giving a range for this.

    Hero’s: 6-9
    Maps: 6-9
    Skins:1-4
    Fixes-1-7

    This stuff really depends of the amount of people , what type and how many resources you have but here’s a generally range in my opinion as you can see hero’s and maps are the most difficult to make in a game as you must make core game play mechanics as smooth as possible when adding a new map.
  • rollind24
    5001 posts Member
    As a follow up, how do lobby creations work in gaming? I see a lot of people say too many modes creates empty lobbies and I imagine a bunch of wasted server space. Can lobby numbers not be spun down depending on usage/activity of a mode?
    #infantrylivesmatter
  • Han_Spinel
    1102 posts Member
    Jug wrote: »
    Is anyone a game designer?
    How hard is it really to implement changes, fix bugs, create skins and maps, etc?
    Jug wrote: »
    Is anyone a game designer?
    How hard is it really to implement changes, fix bugs, create skins and maps, etc?

    I’m not a game designer but I’m am studying in that course in college right now. To create fixes are not really too difficult it you know where to look so depending on the bug or crash I say it could take up to a hour through a week roughly but most bugs generally take around a hour average. Some even take a few minutes just depends TBH. Then you have sjibs which are really not too difficult to create since you have a base model already with built in game mechanics and star cards so they should only take a few moments depending on how much work you put into them unless there a legendary skin then it does generally takes a bit longer usually a day or two depending on varables like number of developers working on the skin. Maps for me at least are the most difficult thing to make in a game because they take a lot of effort and time to create especially setting them up for playing to play on them like running, shooting or flying. Maps need to be big enough where when you run out of bounds for 10 seconds as someone fast there would be plenty of the map left so you wouldn’t reach the end. The second hardest thing in a game is creating a character and it’s movements. Trust me building a character model sometimes can be very frustrating especially trying to get it to move the way you want it to move which is why when you play as some hero’s they crash because of some of the skills built into them contradicts other skills. Hope this was helpful. Trust me the time put into maps and hero’s are very painful especially if you don’t have enough time and resources for it but skins and certain bugs are pretty simple to add. Just to note maps and hero’s ate both difficult.

    Yes. My friend is a programmer; he’s also confirmed that all bugs are fixable, and that most are relatively easy to fix. Regarding BF2017, he takes this to mean there is simply not enough man power assigned to bug fixes for the game, or that not enough resources are being allocated for bug fixes to the game (and instead allocated to more lucrative additions to the game, for example). In either case, new bugs continue to be introduced, and several continue to persist without remedy.

    To be fair, some bugs are getting fixed, and that’s great. However, BF2017 appears to be anomalous with respect to the amount of persistent and newly introduced bugs per patch relative to other games from equally resourced companies.
    In 1977, a single shot rang out at the Cantina.... No first, no second. Han shot - end of statement.

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  • Alex64
    5620 posts Member
    Anyone can be a game designer, as humans our imagination is vast, every time we are playing something new inside our minds.
  • Not a problem with the guys who actually coded it in the first place are working in it oh wait never mind...
  • Seastorm
    271 posts Member
    I’m a noob novice game designer, and I can tell you the bugs are not so hard to solve; what is hard is to find the cause of the bug, and come up with a way to solve them without any impact on the game.

    Implementing changes is not that difficult if it is a minor thing. But, if it is as big as changing the progression system, it needs lots of hard work and time.

    Creating skins are relatively easy, but it depends of the skin. Also, if necessary, the hitbox of the character could change and that’s more work.

    And @MajesticAndHolyWade is right. It depends. Have you seen the details of the map of Naboo? That is a masterpiece. The interior walls are outstanding.

  • Jug wrote: »
    Is anyone a game designer?
    How hard is it really to implement changes, fix bugs, create skins and maps, etc?

    I’m not a game designer but I’m am studying in that course in college right now. To create fixes are not really too difficult it you know where to look so depending on the bug or crash I say it could take up to a hour through a week roughly but most bugs generally take around a hour average. Some even take a few minutes just depends TBH. Then you have sjibs which are really not too difficult to create since you have a base model already with built in game mechanics and star cards so they should only take a few moments depending on how much work you put into them unless there a legendary skin then it does generally takes a bit longer usually a day or two depending on varables like number of developers working on the skin. Maps for me at least are the most difficult thing to make in a game because they take a lot of effort and time to create especially setting them up for playing to play on them like running, shooting or flying. Maps need to be big enough where when you run out of bounds for 10 seconds as someone fast there would be plenty of the map left so you wouldn’t reach the end. The second hardest thing in a game is creating a character and it’s movements. Trust me building a character model sometimes can be very frustrating especially trying to get it to move the way you want it to move which is why when you play as some hero’s they crash because of some of the skills built into them contradicts other skills. Hope this was helpful. Trust me the time put into maps and hero’s are very painful especially if you don’t have enough time and resources for it but skins and certain bugs are pretty simple to add. Just to note maps and hero’s ate both difficult.

    I can’t read that! I have a short attention span.
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  • I've only dabbled with fixed resident evil camera angles and made them work nicely, once a bug happens i'm done lol. I'm a visual artist unfortunately, the programmers have it hard.
  • RIFRIG
    480 posts Member
    Jug wrote: »
    Is anyone a game designer?
    How hard is it really to implement changes, fix bugs, create skins and maps, etc?

    I'm not.......But looking at the attention to detail in this game which has been made even more apparent with the character/vehicle 'inspect' option it would
    be naive to think anything added is a minor task.
  • Jug wrote: »
    Is anyone a game designer?
    How hard is it really to implement changes, fix bugs, create skins and maps, etc?

    I'm not a game designer, but I am a professional VFX artist (character rigger). I've dabbled in programming, but not enough to really give any input on it.

    As far as 3D creation goes, it all depends. At work, one of the lead modellers has been working on a cathedral for about five months now and is just finishing up. In terms of difficulty I'd put it at about the same level as the arena on Geonosis. Now keep in mind this guy's a senior modeller, and is one of the best I've ever met. As far as creating skins that really depends. If it's a simple texture swap it could be as little as a week, or up to three.

    Further more, for those wondering about Grievous, he does pose a few interesting character rigging challenges. Now I can't say I know HOW the frostbite engine works, but I've noticed the leg pistons on the AT-RT are handled in a rather odd way (for those with a technical knowledge of 3D, it seems they have been weight-painted onto the leg joint, instead of having two dedicated joints on either end aimed at each other) so it's very possible part of the delay on Grievous has been due to the frostbite engine not allowing more complex techniques for rigging.

    One last thing regarding the maps though. If Lucas Arts still has the original miniature they built of the arena, it would be possible to LIDAR scan it. This would give you a relatively good model in a very short period of time. It WOULD need a lot of cleanup, but that would still be faster than doing it from scratch.

    Hope this answers some of your questions, and let me know if you've got anything else you'd like to ask.

    Something else I forgot to mention, is that although it might not seem like it at first, some things that seem small can take a ridiculous amount of time to make. For example, it would be faster to model one of the generic houses in Theed than one of the lion statues by the stairs in the throne room.

    Although they're different sizes, the lion is infinitely more complex due to an unfriendly combination of asymmetry and the required topology of a triple A production. The most basic way to explain explain the way 3D modeling works is that you have four points called vertices arranged in a square with a flat surface connecting all four (this is called a face). By having multiple faces all connected together you can create some incredible things. This is a cube:

    10b079t5u8hz.png

    I've highlighted the vertices so you can see them. Now let's take a look at how this applies to the modeling in game.

    A house (and most of the houses in Theed) is just a glorified boxe, and any particularly difficult piece of geometry can be repeated across the structure, or reused on another building. However, the topology of something more organic like a human head looks like this....

    seenlom2sizs.png

    (note: that is not my model, it's one of the example ones from the 3D package I'm using)

    So with that in mind, you can see why certain things that SEEM insignificant are actually remarkably difficult to create.
    ==============================================================
    3ydnuscizll8.png
    Mygeeto CT thread + demo video!
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/133499/outer-rim-community-transmission-demo-video-idea/p1
  • Seastorm
    271 posts Member
    @MajesticAndHolyWade Is that Autodesk Maya?
  • Ciena_Ree
    906 posts Member
    Jug wrote: »
    Is anyone a game designer?
    How hard is it really to implement changes, fix bugs, create skins and maps, etc?

    I'm not a game designer, but I am a professional VFX artist (character rigger). I've dabbled in programming, but not enough to really give any input on it.

    As far as 3D creation goes, it all depends. At work, one of the lead modellers has been working on a cathedral for about five months now and is just finishing up. In terms of difficulty I'd put it at about the same level as the arena on Geonosis. Now keep in mind this guy's a senior modeller, and is one of the best I've ever met. As far as creating skins that really depends. If it's a simple texture swap it could be as little as a week, or up to three.

    Further more, for those wondering about Grievous, he does pose a few interesting character rigging challenges. Now I can't say I know HOW the frostbite engine works, but I've noticed the leg pistons on the AT-RT are handled in a rather odd way (for those with a technical knowledge of 3D, it seems they have been weight-painted onto the leg joint, instead of having two dedicated joints on either end aimed at each other) so it's very possible part of the delay on Grievous has been due to the frostbite engine not allowing more complex techniques for rigging.

    One last thing regarding the maps though. If Lucas Arts still has the original miniature they built of the arena, it would be possible to LIDAR scan it. This would give you a relatively good model in a very short period of time. It WOULD need a lot of cleanup, but that would still be faster than doing it from scratch.

    Hope this answers some of your questions, and let me know if you've got anything else you'd like to ask.

    Something else I forgot to mention, is that although it might not seem like it at first, some things that seem small can take a ridiculous amount of time to make. For example, it would be faster to model one of the generic houses in Theed than one of the lion statues by the stairs in the throne room.

    Although they're different sizes, the lion is infinitely more complex due to an unfriendly combination of asymmetry and the required topology of a triple A production. The most basic way to explain explain the way 3D modeling works is that you have four points called vertices arranged in a square with a flat surface connecting all four (this is called a face). By having multiple faces all connected together you can create some incredible things. This is a cube:

    10b079t5u8hz.png

    I've highlighted the vertices so you can see them. Now let's take a look at how this applies to the modeling in game.

    A house (and most of the houses in Theed) is just a glorified boxe, and any particularly difficult piece of geometry can be repeated across the structure, or reused on another building. However, the topology of something more organic like a human head looks like this....

    seenlom2sizs.png

    (note: that is not my model, it's one of the example ones from the 3D package I'm using)

    So with that in mind, you can see why certain things that SEEM insignificant are actually remarkably difficult to create.

    I wish a moderator would pin your comments somewhere extremely visible, and point people to it if they ever ask about the difficulty of the job. It's nice to have someone around here that's talking with a little bit of experience.
  • Jug
    184 posts Member
    Good stuff so far. So how difficult is it to import 2015 maps in?
  • Seastorm wrote: »
    @MajesticAndHolyWade Is that Autodesk Maya?

    You bet! Industry standard, my friend.
    ==============================================================
    3ydnuscizll8.png
    Mygeeto CT thread + demo video!
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/133499/outer-rim-community-transmission-demo-video-idea/p1
  • Jug wrote: »
    Good stuff so far. So how difficult is it to import 2015 maps in?

    Honestly, I have no idea. My best guess for what the problem is is that you have the basic terrain as one model, that exists at 0, 0, 0 (translation values, x y z) then you have everything else that makes up the maps, all the buildings, tables, set dressing, etc. What I'm GUESSING has happened is that for some reason when you load the file of the 2015 map in the current version of the frostbite engine all transformation values are lost. So all the pieces that make up the map exist at the centre of the scene, then need to be manually moved back into place, one by one. That's just a guess, though.
    ==============================================================
    3ydnuscizll8.png
    Mygeeto CT thread + demo video!
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/133499/outer-rim-community-transmission-demo-video-idea/p1
  • This is hilarious and frightening at the same time....just Google gaming engines. The bottom line is if you built it with tools you own you can fix it -question is what would you rather do with your staff resources if it was a business decision?

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