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Obi-Wan Kenobi Community Quests

Focused Feedback - Lightsaber Changes / Stamina System

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Replies

  • Landeaux2 wrote: »
    Landeaux2 wrote: »
    Changes were a big buff for Vader and Palpatine, a buff for Maul, and a major nerf for all Jedi and Kylo Ren.

    We should not be losing a percentage of stamina simply for activating block. Some blockers, I.e. Kylo, have too little blocking stamina while others, I.e. Vader, has way too much considering he has twice as much as the next character plus unlimited stamina from Focused Rage. If y’all wanted to make these changes then there needed to be a power realignment between the saber characters. Vader somehow got much better than he already was, Palpatine has become an immortal god, and the Jedi plus Kylo have fallen into the abyss.

    Please stop releasing patches that greatly benefit the Dark Side / Sith Lords while imposing a major detriment to the Jedi!

    On top of this, here’s a theoretical list of how effective each saber character should be in each stamina category...

    Blocking:
    Vader - 100
    Luke - 90
    Yoda - 85
    Kylo - 75
    Rey - 70

    Attacking:
    Kylo - 100
    Rey - 90
    Luke and Yoda - 85
    Vader 70

    Stamina regeneration:
    Yoda - 100
    Luke - 85-90
    Kylo - 75-80
    Rey and Vader - 70-75

    If you want the game to be close to Canon Vader’s attack stamina would be up there with Kylos. Vader once did an 8v1 against Jedi and won.

    He actually lost that, he killed the less experienced jedi but the 3 masters proved to be more than he could handle after the damages hes suffered. If the 501st didnt show up he would of likely died.
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  • Kyle2295
    254 posts Member
    I don't like the concept. I think it ruins galactic assault and he feeling of freedom as well as the feeling of being an invulnerable hero.

    I think the infinite block should remain, and when sabers clash it should do 'filler' effects of the lightsabers dualing like when delfecting blaster fire, and maybe get knocked back at random sometimes.
  • xjippyx
    155 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Palpatine is stupid strong now vs lightsaber heroes. I would look into fixing his auto tracking and maybe nerf his attack when jumping. Like 80% as effective when airborn or something.

    As for the lightsabers. Ouch. I would get rid of the initial cost of stamina to block. And for any character that has stamina increase card I would double it if not making it 50% purple or even 100% purple.

    If you want to keep some of these stamina changes, change the cards to reflect thisbwith atamina upgrades like 100% when purple.
  • danilojbg
    837 posts Member
    The new mechanic would be bad enough by itself. But it's not only that. Its implementation looks like a symptom of something bigger that is really frustrating about Battlefront II: the impression that people behind the tweaks have little to no idea on what the game experience feels like from the player's perspective.

    You certainly have the data, which is very important. But it seems the lack of "experienced/dedicated players's wisdom" might be making the team interpret data the wrong way.

    The new and poor stamina mechanics are just a form of the problem. I'm sure it'll keep happening along this game's lifespan in other ways. The also awful EOR Matchmaking that was tested some weeks ago was the previous version of it. I wonder what will be the next.


  • lerodemmy
    3334 posts Member
    We finally have some balance. But people don't like change, so of course you're gonna get some negative feedback. Lightsaber heroes are having a hard time in GA I would increase the duration they can block blasters. That would make people happier. Definitely don't revert the system though. Infinite block breaks the game.

    Where do you see balance? Vader vs. Luke? Palpatine vs. lightsabers?
    21 years in the making... the wait is almost over. Pre-order RESIDENT EVIL 2 now!
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  • Oidmetala
    224 posts Member
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Here’s my problem with this tweet...

    Every change to saber combat has been a disaster in my eyes, and I know a lot of people who would agree. What’s to stop him from trying to adjust things and creating another disaster?

    Basically, we’ll wait at least a month for him to do something about this, but it probably won’t be a very good something.

    This is why we just need theses changes reverted. Otherwise, we’ll have a year of monthly changes to lightsaber combat until it finally works.

    The saddest part of all this? Between mid-November and mid-February, lightsaber combat did work. That was the golden age of HvV and we just keep heading further and further away from those days.

    Sadly true :(
  • I think the new stamina against other lightsaber heroes finally makes saber combat a lot more skill based rather than waiting for someone to hit and get stunned then attack them. Before this new patch, saber combat was very dull and boring.

    Now, heroes like Maul and Yoda have a fair chance in fighting heroes who can block. However, in Galactic Assault, Kylo and Yoda are deeply at a disadvantage, I like the idea behind it as well, but their stamina drain against infantry is way too high.

    I’d suggest to lower the rate of stamina drain against infantry for Yoda and Kylo since they suffer the most. Other saber heroes are good to go though.

    Also, Palpatine’s auto detection for opponents in front of him using base lightning is still present in this game. The stamina cool down for Palpatine is also super broken, it regens way too quickly. Please revert Palpatine back before the AT-AT lightning patch.

    Vader’s stamina drop rate is way too slow as well. Everything else seems okay in terms of stamina. I am very pleased with this new dynamic.
  • NomiSunstrider
    2376 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Ristardo wrote: »
    Agreed It needs to be reverted back. But make the stamina drain quicker only from sabre damage only. Surely they can isolate sabre damage from blaster fire. So if you constantly block against sabre heroes it drain quick with each strike you receive.

    No. Not a fan of just going back and then making the game more biased towards saber users by removing drain from blaster fire.

    I like this system, but I do think some comprimise is needed.

    I like it too. Less drain on block activation and blaster deflections is what it needs to be tweaked.
    Good compromise would be if the stamina drain on just activating block will only drain it once every 5 seconds. That way spamming block consecutively won't drain your entire stamina. Also reduction in stamina drain with blaster deflections especially for Kylo and maybe increased stamina drain on deflections for Vader. That should balance things out a bit.
    Overall I like the new system and with tweaks it could be better.
    ''The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel he understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if he had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the Dark Lord out of necessity to prevent a greater evil''
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  • JD25
    167 posts Member
    Really I would just suggest that any lightsaber hero with a dash attack can hit a blocking lightsaber hero and lower their shield for about let's say 2 seconds or somewhere ballpark that's fair
  • JD25
    167 posts Member
    Another thing I was going to add is that when you jump and swing your lightsaber it cost about two to the three times the stamina then just swinging once on the ground I don't like that change
  • JD25 wrote: »
    Another thing I was going to add is that when you jump and swing your lightsaber it cost about two to the three times the stamina then just swinging once on the ground I don't like that change

    That too would be good compromise as well but only if aerial attacks break blocks. It would be good trade off. Lose more stamina but if you hit them inflict damage even if they block. That could be that heavy attack. And heavy attacks drain more stamina :)
    ''The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel he understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if he had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the Dark Lord out of necessity to prevent a greater evil''
    9qkoakxcje0l.gif

  • Oidmetala wrote: »
    I dislike the changes and the reason is simple, it lowers the fun of playing lightsaber heros.

    With changes like this you really destroy the fun of playing your game.
    Good players will always dominate and bad players will always complain about something, doesn't matter what you will change, so please stop to cripple your game mechanics more and more for no reason.
    Your combat mechanics was already the most fun before this patch droped in my opinion and now it's the worst.


    Why you don't stay with the old mechanics and simply add ONE block breaking ability to every lightsaber hero when blocking is such an immortal problem for you?

    For example:
    Yoda: Sprint attack breaks block,
    Rey: Sprint attack breaks block,
    Luke: Sprint attack breaks block,
    Maul: Saber throw or rotary engagement breaks block,
    Vader: Saber throw breaks block
    Kylo: Rage breaks block


    => Problem solved, some of the above abilitys allready work/worked to break block...

    Just my opinion.

    This one is on dice not EA. Don't know why they have to "fix" things in a more complicated way than they need to be.

    At least they are communicating with us though and acknowledging the problem. Hopefully they fix it fast.
  • Moody5807 wrote: »
    to me all the changes are terrible, everybody now is like "join HvV" no dark side? "ESC quit" and when they join a game with dark side, boom leave immediately when sides switch. Dark side heroes are very OP atm, nobody wants to play light side heroes.


    Huh? Blaster heroes on light side can wreck dark side now. Only blaster users can take down palpy unless you can him inside where he can't bounce around.
  • Landeaux2 wrote: »
    Changes were a big buff for Vader and Palpatine, a buff for Maul, and a major nerf for all Jedi and Kylo Ren.

    We should not be losing a percentage of stamina simply for activating block. Some blockers, I.e. Kylo, have too little blocking stamina while others, I.e. Vader, have way too much considering he has twice as much as the next character plus unlimited stamina from Focused Rage. If y’all wanted to make these changes then there needed to be a power realignment between the saber characters. Vader somehow got much better than he already was, Palpatine has become an immortal god, and the Jedi plus Kylo have fallen into the abyss.

    Please stop releasing patches that greatly benefit the Dark Side / Sith Lords while imposing a major detriment to the Jedi!

    You said it exactly
  • Ifsopowerfulyouare97
    518 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    F8RGE wrote: »
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    Hey everyone,

    With the lightsaber changes in yesterday's update I would like to kick off one of the Focused Feedback threads to have a central place where we can collect all of your feedback.

    Please be specific with your feedback, saying "it's great", or "it's bad" doesn't help us. We need to know why you think the way you do. Please also consider which game modes you are playing and if your feedback effects all of them, or one specifically.

    As always, no piece of feedback is too small.

    I've been a saber player since the 2015 version excluding the original ones. I know there are other people out there who have been too. But the saber combat was perfect , I loved to 1v1 in that one with my friends but this version not so much with the new system. If you can't think of a way to make it "better" try the 2015 version, it was really amazing. any feedback will be great. Also, itll be great if the jump strike attack with the saber comes back.
    Post edited by Ifsopowerfulyouare97 on
  • @F8RGE

    Don’t know if you have noticed it, But Vader with his middle ‘rage‘ ability has infinity stamina, which makes him against Lightside heroes very overpowered, because they drain stamina :/
  • Unfortunately, stamina decreasing simply by holding the block button has made light saber Heroes useless. I play Heroes vs. Villains every day, so I'm quite familiar with battles. Generally, Heroes vs. Villains are always fast-paced battles and it's crucial to be able to hold the block button without losing stamina when a good Palpatine or Boba Fett sneak up on you. Because of the stamina changes, now it just takes Darth Vader taunting Luke, Rey or Yoda for 5 seconds, while Iden Visero shoots a bolt from afar hitting you (then Darth Vader takes you down in 2 hits). All because your stamina drained by standing there. In other words, strategy has been removed and light saber users have become mere points-givers.

    I also began seeing a pattern where many games would end with players receiving 3,000-4,000 end-game points instead of 10,000 + (Probably from running around trying to regain stamina).

    Before the change, regardless of bugs, Heroes vs. Villains battles were much more intense. It's FUN to be Kylo Ren and hold the block button while meeting a Rey, circling, taunting (and sometimes working together) like in the movies! It's AWESOME being far away and seeing Luke and Darth Vader hold their light sabers up, taunting and circling each other trying to strategize their next move like in the older films!

    Because of the changes, this was taken away and in turn, I notice players (including myself) run away and hide in corners trying to regain stamina. I can't imagine Galactic Assault gameplay, where bullets are flying at you constantly and you run out of stamina from just standing there with a light saber blocking.
  • Liz4rD
    996 posts Member
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Please read this from @landeaux2 and other comments from this thread:
    https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/113687/my-suggested-comprehensive-changes-to-all-lightsaber-heroes-and-some-changes-to-blaster-users#latest
    Landeaux2 wrote: »
    GENERAL CHANGES:
    Luke Skywalker:
    - Health increased to 800 or Max Regeneration increased to 225 (can this be a thing?)
    - Lightsaber damage increased to 115*
    - Repulse damage increased to 100 (vs Heroes)
    - Rush damage increased to 120 (vs Heroes)
    - Increase overall speed/maneuverability
    - Increase hit detection of Force abilities

    Yoda:
    - Presence now cleanses all affected teammates from crowd control
    - Unleash minimum radius increased by 15-20%
    - Increase hit detection of Force abilities
    - Increase lightsaber tracking
    - Slightly increase movement speed
    - Slightly increase jump height
    - :warning: Potentially lower saber damage to 100 but give Yoda a 4th Dash again :warning:

    Rey:
    - Improve dodge transition fluidity
    - Remove unlimited stamina from Insight
    - Fix an issue where Dash Strike damage can continuously re-apply and kill the affected enemy

    Chewbacca:
    - Max Regeneration increased to 300

    Leia Organa, Han Solo, and Lando Calrissian:
    - Max Regeneration increased to 200

    Darth Vader
    - Increase Max Regeneration to 300
    - Remove unlimited stamina from Focused Rage

    Kylo Ren:
    - Lightsaber damage increased to 110
    - Pull base damage increased to 100 (vs Troopers)
    - Pull base damage increased to 75 (vs Heroes)
    - Freeze cooldown lowered to 20 seconds
    - Freeze duration lowered to 3 seconds or enemies released after taking 200 damage (vs Heroes)

    Darth Maul:
    - Regeneration Delay lowered to 3.5 seconds
    - Health Regenerated Per Second increased to 75
    - Furious Throw initial hit damage increased to 175 and subsequent hit lowered to 125
    - Spin damage increased to 110
    - Passively receive 15% damage reduction while in Spin animation
    - Add acrobatic flips for Darth Maul to use as his “block”
    - Hit detection improvements to Furious Throw

    Boba Fett:
    - Health increased to 600
    - Max Regeneration increased to 200
    - For The Hunt now periodically pings for enemies within 25 meters of Boba Fett. Enemies marked by For The Hunt are also revealed to teammates

    Iden Versio and Captain Phasma:
    - Max Regeneration increased to 200


    STAR CARD CHANGES:
    Luke Skywalker:
    * Jedi Fighter amended to grant Luke Skywalker +5/7/10/15 lightsaber damage vs villains
    - Deflection Mastery amended to become current functionality of Jedi Fighter
    - Jedi Reflexes increased to grant +10/12/15/20% damage reduction

    Yoda:
    - Jedi Mentor increased to grant +6/8/10/12% damage reduction
    - Requested changes allows possibility of Unleashed to be amended to a heal card

    Kylo Ren:
    - Bloodletting Frenzy amended to a heal card similarly to Rey’s Survivor
    - Resilience lightsaber damage vs heroes lowered to +6/7/8/10 vs heroes

    Darth Maul:
    - Frantic Strikes amended to grant +8/9/10/12 lightsaber damage vs heroes
    - Requested changes allows possibility of Lightsaber Defense to be amended to a heal card
    - Fool Me Once increased to grant +8/10/12/15 ability cooldown reduction

    Boba Fett:
    - Requested changes allows possibility of Info Sharing to be amended to a heal card


    NOTES ON REQUESTED CHANGES:
    I’d first like to say that I have put hundreds of hours into this game on Xbox and PlayStation. I mostly play hero modes but I do play galactic assault every now and then. I am not interested in bragging on my play; I’d let it speak for itself and allow others to comment on it. I am not passing my opinion off as the “be-all-end-all” opinion that takes precedence over anyone else’s opinion. I am simply bringing forth some suggested changes that I find fair and balanced based off of the opinions I’ve formulated from playing and receiving feedback from friends. I would not suggest anything I would find to be oppressive, overpowered, or unfair. I am ready, willing, able, and prepared to defend any changes I have proposed.

    I didn’t go too much into detail on blaster users’ damage output due to the uncertainty on their exact damage numbers and rate of fire. Lightsaber users’ damage numbers seem less arbitrary than blaster users’ damage numbers and are much less ambiguous.

    For changes to Luke Skywalker: I know people will see this suggestion as an ill intent but I believe this would finally balance him in hero modes without changing his current gameplay vs troopers. The developers have admitted in the second to last patch notes that Luke’s saber swing speed is below average and they may need to increase his saber damage eventually. Now is the time. I have an asterisk next to this suggestion because it’s an either or request. Either buff it to 115 altogether or enact my suggestion to amend Jedi Fighter to grant Luke saber damage vs villains. I request a health buff to 800 or Max Regeneration increased to 225 for several reasons: I requested Max Regeneration increases for other characters; the average health for the Dark Side lightsaber users is currently 800 while the Light Side’s is ~733; Increasing Luke’s to 800 would increase that average to 750, closing the current gap. Again, this is an either or scenario so either buff his health or max regeneration. Repulse still doesn’t deal enough damage considering the danger it puts you in. Rush is easily the worse Rush/Dash/Spin in the game. Maul’s Spin travels twice as far and Yoda’s Dash travels a similar distance but deals more damage and goes through block. Jedi Reflexes is simply too weak to be considered currently. The Dark Side currently has the 3 fastest/most maneuverable heroes in the game: Boba, Maul, and Palpatine. The Dark Side shouldn't have the three fastest characters. It’s unfair to the Light Side. Luke and Maul should be the fastest/most maneuverable since they’re the hit-and-run characters. Countless times, Luke’s abilities don’t register. Deflection Mastery is currently useless and no one really believes it works or it’s beneficial.

    For changes to Yoda: Allowing Presence to cleanse all teammates affected from crowd control would greatly help the Light Side deal with the endless crowd control the Dark Side has. Jedi Mentor currently isn’t as good as it should be. 8% is a little too low for an epic card. Unleash currently has such a small radius that it isn’t really useful in most situations. It also hasn’t horrendous hit detection issues. Yoda’s saber tracking is the worst in the game. I don’t want it as ridiculous as Vader’s but a good middle ground should be found. Yoda seems to run a little slow right now and there’s no doubt he cannot jump as high as other Force sensitive heroes. Ask any Yoda main if they would rather 115 saber damage and 3 dashes or 100 saber damage and 4 dashes; they’ll say the latter. Plus, dashing around the place fits the character more.

    For changes to Rey: Rey’s maneuverability was the most negatively affected by the dodge changes. She has such a dragged out animation to the end of her dodge that slows her down. Again, the Light Side cannot afford to have their characters’ maneuverability decreased while the Dark Side has the three fastest heroes in the game. No need to explain why Dash Strike shouldn’t infinitely damage. The unlimited stamina removal was announced by Guillaume so I preemptively added this as a change.

    For changes to Chewbacca: Max Regeneration increase gives him his tank status.

    For changes to Leia Organa, Han Solo, and Lando Calrissian: No hero should have less Max Regeneration than a heavy.

    For changes to Darth Vader: Max Regeneration increase gives him his tank status, not that this was in question. The unlimited stamina removal was announced by Guillaume so I preemptively added this as a change.

    For changes to Kylo Ren: He’s the worst saber user in galactic assault. He currently hasn’t no heal card and has no ranged abilities that can one-shot a trooper, unlike most other heroes. Having to be point-blank to a trooper and not being able to heal is a recipe for disaster. These changes vs troopers should help him out tremendously. The changes vs heroes also give him a boost since I requested buffs for Light Side saber users. However, his current Freeze duration vs heroes is nothing short of ridiculous and will have a hero killed if they’re frozen next to a blaster user. Either lower the duration to 3 second season or release the hero from Freeze after taking 200 damage. Bloodletting Frenzy currently doesn’t even work. Change it to a heal card. My suggested change to Resilience is a preemptive change due to my request of a saber damage buff to 110. The +10 saber damage added to his basic attack is taken out of the current +20 saber damage added from Resilience. His overall saber damage when he proc’s Resilience is unchanged!

    For changes to Darth Maul: The health changes are there to help him out with his hit-and-run style, along with not being able to block at all. The Furious Throw damage changes are due to his throw being less reliable and having a smaller hitbox than Vader’s Saber Throw. This makes a single-hit feel better while not changing the maximum damage from the ability if it hits twice. Recent patches and hot fixes have made Furious Throw inconsistent and unreliable so hopefully this is fixed soon. The addition of damage and damage reduction to Spin is a simple buff that also makes room for Lightsaber Defense to be changed to a heal card possibly named I Will Always Survive. Maul’s “block” button should have a different function than his dodge. Acrobatic flips would be a small, yet good, change to have outplay potential. The requested change to Frantic Strikes is to match the request for Luke to have a similar lightsaber damage buff vs villains card. Fool Me Once isn’t nearly enticing enough for me to consider the card. 10% for an epic card is too low and it doesn’t shave off much -if any- time from his abilities’ current cooldown.

    For changes to Boba Fett: I’m sure I will receive no backlash from this forum when it comes to buffing Boba Fett. A 600 health change would be decent; I believe an enforcer can have around 500 so a hero shouldn’t be as close to an enforcer health wise. No hero should have less Max Regeneration than a heavy trooper. The For The Hunt changes would allow it to function similarly to Rey’s Insight and I think it would be a good change. This would also allow Info Sharing to be changed to a star card.

    For changes to Iden Versio and Captain Phasma: No hero should have less Max Regeneration than a heavy trooper.

    Thanks for reading. Thoughts?



    Some of this changes/requests are good, and easy to implement
  • New_Roosterman
    501 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    The problem with sabre combat as it was pre-patch was people being "repulse/stunned" when they attacked a character in block. What you have done instead is stuff up sabre characters from being able to deflect blaster fire as you have treated blocking sabre attacks from other characters and blaster deflecting as the same thing. Hence for those sabre wielders without high stamina (e.g. Kylo Ren) you have made him even more ineffective than they already were. Further, this change does not over come the problem of the repulse/stun when a sabre character attacks a blocking sabre character, which is what the complaints were about.
    Add in you left Emperor Palpatine's stamina untouched, sabre characters may as well run up a white flag whenver he appears as they have a 0% chance of being able to kill him, as they can't block his lightening before running out of stamina, and especially as the shooting through walls bug with the Emperor's lightning has returned.
    So this is why the changes to the stamina system and sabre combat are bad and make the game worse. You have swung the game so far toward bl;aster wielding characters you may as well forget ever playing a sabre wielding hero again, they can't block, many of them have no stun abilities (and the few who do they are now bugged), and they can't crouch to take cover (which blaster heros can) nor can they roll like blaster characters can (who incidentally can do this without effecting their stamina).
    Post edited by New_Roosterman on
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  • Liz4rD
    996 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Not a bad idea to revert thing to jump + attack to break a block. Simple and effective and the defender can evade the jump and still have chances to mantain his position, and the attacker chances to break the block again, besides the defender can resist a massive blaster attack, at least for a while, to seek for cover or just the time needed to get some backup, or simply to flee and recover.

    However, infinite blocking is no fun, and Stamina must be dragged if the defender get multiple sabre hits on his blocking or a massive blaster discharge.
  • CountVonLux2
    551 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Here’s my problem with this tweet...

    Every change to saber combat has been a disaster in my eyes, and I know a lot of people who would agree. What’s to stop him from trying to adjust things and creating another disaster?

    Basically, we’ll wait at least a month for him to do something about this, but it probably won’t be a very good something.

    This is why we just need theses changes reverted. Otherwise, we’ll have a year of monthly changes to lightsaber combat until it finally works.

    The saddest part of all this? Between mid-November and mid-February, lightsaber combat did work. That was the golden age of HvV and we just keep heading further and further away from those days.

    Yes, no more tweeks. Revert it first and foremost, and we’d love it if you’d do it quickly, I really have lost all desire to play Hvv & Showdown. I put this ahead of overpowered palps because if we get the stamina (and force power bugs fixed)we can give him a good fight till you fix him :)
  • Liz4rD
    996 posts Member
    Moody5807 wrote: »
    to me all the changes are terrible, everybody now is like "join HvV" no dark side? "ESC quit" and when they join a game with dark side, boom leave immediately when sides switch. Dark side heroes are very OP atm, nobody wants to play light side heroes.


    Huh? Blaster heroes on light side can wreck dark side now. Only blaster users can take down palpy unless you can him inside where he can't bounce around.

    Thats another problem. In a game based on the story about knights of light and dark with sabers ...THE BLASTERS ARE THE PROTAGONISTS NOW.
  • Liz4rD wrote: »
    However, infinite blocking is no fun, and Stamina must be dragged if the defender get multiple sabre hits on his blocking or a massive blaster discharge.

    Yes but that is part of the problem. Go play as Kylon Ren and see how much stamina he loses just for going into hgius block without actually blocking. He loses 25%, so after about 3-4 blocks his stamina is spent. Many of the other sabre wielders suffer similarly, but Kylo has the worst., Even Yoda has this problem and he can only block blaster fire.
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  • Kyle2295
    254 posts Member
    Whatever you do if you try to fix this... DON'T use that thing you used in bf1 where the camera zoomed in with the saberclash. That was annoying as hell and was **** when laggy. It really takes away from immersion. Keep the camera in a contronlable position.
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  • Here's my two cents, do with it what you will:

    I really dislike the new stamina drain system. It's far too drastic of a change and requires one to fundamentally relearn how to play with saber heroes as opposed to just tweaking your play style to accommodate for changes. It also had the unintended effect of throwing the balance off in favor of blaster heroes and especially Palpatine.
    A much more measured approach would've served you well in this case. Saber combat wasn't broken and didn't need an overhaul, just some refinement. The "infinite" blocking was an annoying exploit that needed to be dealt with, but far less drastic options were available.

    1. No one seemed to have a problem with jump attacks breaking blocks. Why this wasn't just put back in place I don't understand. There seemed to be more outcry about it's removal than anything else.

    2. Why not just allow saber heroes with specialty attacks (Luke's Rush, Yoda's Dash Attack, Kylo's Frenzy) to break a block? It seems like it would require less work than what was implemented. Note, I left Rey's Dash Strike and Vader's Saber Throw OR Choke off the list because of their abilities for infinite stamina. You could make them break a block if this was the only change made.

    3. Remove the ridiculous Stagger/Stun effect from attacks on a blocking opponent. Not only does it look silly in most cases (subjective, I know), but it keeps you from pressing an attack on a blocking opponent and wearing down stamina in a more natural and intuitive way.

    Any one or even all 3 of these suggestions would have cleared up the exploit while making combat with sabers more fluid and exciting. No doubt there would've been tweaks that needed to be made after, but small steps make course correction easier than massive leaps that turn out to be the wrong direction.

    Hope this helps. If I'm talking out of my rear, then feel free to disregard.
  • lerodemmy
    3334 posts Member
    The new stamina system is the 2nd worst thing you implemented for Hero combat, the first was the Dodge Nerf and Staggerfest in patch 1.2.

    Stop getting feedback from people that don't really want to give good feedback. If you keep getting feedback from anyone, your game will keep being that mess that changes substantially from month to month and makes the overall experience always worse.

    Just so you know EA, estimates show 90% of ad clicking in China is fake. Do you truly believe 100% of the feedback you get is true? Do you really think there are no trolls, no people trying to show you support to get something in return (maybe becoming a moderator), no people with really **** ideas, no people which are biased towards something that isn't true game balance? Grow up EA!

    It's time for you to get a division of hardcore gamers to become testers and idea givers. It's proven you don't properly test your game. For the last 4 patches in a row you broke something obvious and easily reproducible. Out of Bounds areas always existed in many maps and many still exist from day 1 and you still can't manage to fix them. And we aren't talking about true BUGs, which you don't admit, but your amateur dev team has no clue on how to fix them.

    You said you wanted to remove "infinite block" because it was unfair. Now tell me how a Hero can win in any mode by just blocking? In the best scenario he can get a draw in Hero Showdown, buy time in Heroes Vs Villains, or resist getting his team pushed back in Galactic Assault. Blocking doesn't win games.

    Also tell me how it was impossible to damage and kill a hero that didn't stop blocking? Dashing through and quickly turning to attack is an efficient way of damaging a blocking hero. Not only that, but he'll eventually need to attack, or else no victory will be achieved. And this is just saber vs saber 1v1. Shooter heroes force saber heroes to stop blocking, and more then one hero can just flank the defending saber. And before we had the Aerial Attack, which could pass through the block and damage the hero, but you removed that. You removed a good mechanic that worked and was fair (having to jump to attack meant you were able to be hit by ANY force ability any Saber Hero has), to then implement one that's terrible and have serious consequences in fields you didn't consider when reworking the mechanic.

    One last thing, now for my fellow BUGFront players, not to this sorry company: They'll never revert a bit in this game, unless some serious backlash is thrown upon them, as this will be remembered as their failure. This happened to Lootboxes in the beginning, and we all know how serious a backlash that was, and this was again done with Palpatine's lightning going through walls, which took several months for them to decide removing it and admitting it was a feature they thought was nice, and not a BUG, as for months we were in the dark not knowing what to make about that thing.

    If instead of reverting they "fix" things, this will be remembered as constant improvements, not as a mistake.

    source.gif
    21 years in the making... the wait is almost over. Pre-order RESIDENT EVIL 2 now!
    header.jpg?t=1547513853
  • Make the lightsaber combat good like Jedi Knight. Like the movies the iconic battles, swings,
  • Holding a lightsaber to your face and it draining stamina without even doing anything Is horrible. I vote to revert back. It makes no sense
  • DarkSideUser86
    147 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    @F8RGE

    Feedback Lightsaber-Ignition

    Is it possible that Emotes don‘t stop if we ignite the lightsaber?

    Because it would be much cooler if we could ignite the lightsaber in eg. Kylo Rens Emote ‘Bow for the first order‘ while he is saying these lines.

    Or Mauls Emotes, like in episode 1 in the hangar:

    1zrsjo4wjlr0.gif

    ... that we could ignite the lightsaber after he is doing his lightsaber-spin-Emote saying ‘The Sith are all-powerful‘ (3. or 4. Emote)

    And also in general it would be awesome if we could get some Lightsaber-Flourish Emotes for all Lightsaber Heroes.

    Like:
    joyb85fbcxal.gif

    I would personally, love to see some Lightsaber-Flourish Emotes! That’s a great idea! :)
  • stevenomes
    4670 posts Member
    I don't play a lot with heroes so my feedback doesn't matter. however I have been on the battlefront forums for a while and seen a lot of threads. I will say this has to be one of the best constructive feedback threads I've seen. so many really good suggestions and articulated in a concise and productive way. it's mostly staying on topic and even those who hate the changes have not lashed out in rage but instead offered good examples of the problems and suggestions to improve. impressive. most impressive.
  • Anoh wrote: »
    No feedback too small? Good:


    The current lightsaber mechanics are not very complexe. To add some complexity to them here is what they could look like with a few achievable tweaks:

    New system:

    • Base mechanic:

    fzqrjcra1kfr.gif


    • Layer of complexity: (Inspired by For Honor)

    The defender would be able to induce to his opponent the stun/stagger animation one gets when attacking a blocking saber hero in the current system by tapping either block (again) or attack at the time of impact of the attackers saber attack.


    Regarding Stamina:

    The defender's stamina would burn up x1.5 faster as the attacker's stamina. (For balance/gameplay reasons, to kind of encourage players to use this mechanic.)

    Regarding the updated stagger/stun:

    The current stagger/stun is long enough so that the attacker can intake 2 saber strikes before gaining control over his character again;
    With the updated one - as the attacker - you would be able to dodge out of the stagger/stun animation after intaking one saber hit from the counter-attack of the defender. Only the dodge would allow you to avoid the second potential saber counter-attack from the defender. You would regain control of your character as soon as you dodge, or if you don't, at the end of the stun/stagger animation.

    To be clear with the stagger/stun: same duration as now, but with the added option to break out of it by dodging after taking one saber counter-attack from the defender.


    Potential second layer of complexity:

    The attacker sent into the stagger/stun animation could trigger a saber lock mini game like from Battlefront 2015 by tapping block and attack simultaneously at the time of impact of the defender's counter-attack. Both Heroes would be invulnerable to damage during the saber lock mini game. The one who wins the saber lock mini game would deal a 300 damage saber strike.


    Additional cool mechanic: When 2 lightsaber heroes attack each other simultaneously, they both are sent into a shorter stagger/stun animation than the counter attack one, same animation but a little sped up.


    Any further suggestions for development are more than welcome.

    Thanks!

    This! You have no idea how much this needs to be a thing, in the game. We need cinematic lightsaber duels in the game. The new stamina system prevents endless button mashing, but the animations during blocking and saber clashing are so bad! It borderline makes the game feel and look like a PS1 game (PS2, at best). After the trailer footage of seeing Kylo Ren and Rey duelling in Maz Kanata’s castle and the short segment of Vader duelling with Luke, on a walkway, before the game’s launch..(shown below)

    vj6el5zlu83f.gif
    u7w5ge2sfpnu.gif

    That was how I envisioned the combat mechanics would be and was REALLY hyped to play, but how wrong (and disappointed) was I.. to find that it’s just a very basic system that offers no in-depth, cinematic combat. Can we make this happen please, @T0TALfps @F8RGE ?

    I agree with you this right here how saber combat should be. ;)
  • Remove the knockback and stun when you attack someonewho is blocking and maybe add a parry or something. Right now, no simple stamina change will make the combat fun and skilful.
  • Instead of making changes to the stamina, you should have just given saber-wielders a way to break the block of another saber-wielder like the heavy strike did in Battlefront 2015. That is ALL that was needed. Like when we were able to jump then strike to break a block was fine until you guys removed.

    You most definitely should revert the stamina changes when it comes to blocking blasting fire...it is awful now.
  • Ristardo
    132 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Even this old ps2 game from 2005 had a better sabre system. Yeah it's a bit arcadie.but the blocking and parrying is way better than the staggered knock back we currently have.

  • The new stamina system is the 2nd worst thing you implemented for Hero combat, the first was the Dodge Nerf and Staggerfest in patch 1.2.

    Stop getting feedback from people that don't really want to give good feedback. If you keep getting feedback from anyone, your game will keep being that mess that changes substantially from month to month and makes the overall experience always worse.

    Just so you know EA, estimates show 90% of ad clicking in China is fake. Do you truly believe 100% of the feedback you get is true? Do you really think there are no trolls, no people trying to show you support to get something in return (maybe becoming a moderator), no people with really **** ideas, no people which are biased towards something that isn't true game balance? Grow up EA!

    It's time for you to get a division of hardcore gamers to become testers and idea givers. It's proven you don't properly test your game. For the last 4 patches in a row you broke something obvious and easily reproducible. Out of Bounds areas always existed in many maps and many still exist from day 1 and you still can't manage to fix them. And we aren't talking about true BUGs, which you don't admit, but your amateur dev team has no clue on how to fix them.

    You said you wanted to remove "infinite block" because it was unfair. Now tell me how a Hero can win in any mode by just blocking? In the best scenario he can get a draw in Hero Showdown, buy time in Heroes Vs Villains, or resist getting his team pushed back in Galactic Assault. Blocking doesn't win games.

    Also tell me how it was impossible to damage and kill a hero that didn't stop blocking? Dashing through and quickly turning to attack is an efficient way of damaging a blocking hero. Not only that, but he'll eventually need to attack, or else no victory will be achieved. And this is just saber vs saber 1v1. Shooter heroes force saber heroes to stop blocking, and more then one hero can just flank the defending saber. And before we had the Aerial Attack, which could pass through the block and damage the hero, but you removed that. You removed a good mechanic that worked and was fair (having to jump to attack meant you were able to be hit by ANY force ability any Saber Hero has), to then implement one that's terrible and have serious consequences in fields you didn't consider when reworking the mechanic.

    One last thing, now for my fellow BUGFront players, not to this sorry company: They'll never revert a bit in this game, unless some serious backlash is thrown upon them, as this will be remembered as their failure. This happened to Lootboxes in the beginning, and we all know how serious a backlash that was, and this was again done with Palpatine's lightning going through walls, which took several months for them to decide removing it and admitting it was a feature they thought was nice, and not a BUG, as for months we were in the dark not knowing what to make about that thing.

    If instead of reverting they "fix" things, this will be remembered as constant improvements, not as a mistake.

    Amen!

    Don't "fix", revert
  • In my opinion it should stay like this, but stamina cards should be boosted. As of now only heroes that benefit from them are Kylo and Vader. Maybe the cards can changed to give overall more stamina.


    8dh69o72w6hm.jpg


  • GrandMasterYoda1
    22 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    deleted
    Post edited by GrandMasterYoda1 on
  • Kerle wrote: »
    I think this is the first time, since launch, legitimately say the following:

    Pretty much everyone on here agrees with each other. The people have spoken DICE.

    1. Revert this stamina stuff, enable jump attacks as guard breaks again, reset Papa Palp and theres your hotfix.

    2. Then remove the knock-back, staggering on hitting a blocking opponent. You're done.


    This is pretty much what everybody here agrees on. It doesnt require new animation, a new mechanic or anything else expensive. This is not complicated. We have delivered focused, objective and valueable criticism.

    Now its your turn, DICE.

    Yes! I am all in for this! Please, do it EA!
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