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Focused Feedback - Lightsaber Changes / Stamina System

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Replies

  • Anoh wrote: »
    • Base mechanic:

    fzqrjcra1kfr.gif


    Yes this is exactly the combat I want, fast-paced. And to get it this way you must remove the stun/staggering when attacking someone who is blocking. Also do it so that when trying to block an attack by a lightsaber, you can only block it by kinda tapping your block button so it relies more on skill, but blocking against blasters/lightning can be the same, with a bit more stamina. + Do it so that when you press block, you won't loose stamina.

    Hope you implement this Dice! : )
  • stevenomes
    4645 posts Member
    season 3 - fix bugs and balancing. July-Aug 2018

    season 4 - clone wars - fall-winter 2018.
  • Mouse92im
    177 posts Member
    I can’t say much for the changes, since I rarely ever play a saber yielding heroes. I suck at playing them. I mostly play GA, However, I’m thorougly enjoying most of the hero’s getting melted quicker. Except Palp and Vader. Just straight frustrating to watch your whole team get steam rolled by one character.

    Since launch, seems the goal line constantly moves on you with every patch or update when trying to get used to any character. It’s quite old and frustrating. We’re EIGHT months live into this game’s life. Will there ever be a final working product?

    I wish I could stay positive and optimistic, but I’m also human and have limits. Truly sad.
  • Mouse92im wrote: »
    I can’t say much for the changes, since I rarely ever play a saber yielding heroes. I suck at playing them. I mostly play GA, However, I’m thorougly enjoying most of the hero’s getting melted quicker. Except Palp and Vader. Just straight frustrating to watch your whole team get steam rolled by one character.

    Since launch, seems the goal line constantly moves on you with every patch or update when trying to get used to any character. It’s quite old and frustrating. We’re EIGHT months live into this game’s life. Will there ever be a final working product?

    I wish I could stay positive and optimistic, but I’m also human and have limits. Truly sad.

    Yeah what you said.
  • xmasterful
    618 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    See folks you all whine and complain about every little ticky tacky thing then are shocked when the devs change things around more than you would have liked. Maybe next time think before you whine about nerfing something and the repercussions your whining could bring.
    With each update things appear to get more "broken." That's because the devs finally gave in to all the senseless whining for nerfs on the internet. Now you all realize the wisdom of just being reasonable and not coming here to the forums to air every one of your grievances of the game. You all acted like the game needed significant changes well now when you get them why are you displeased it's not your game to decide what changes will be implemented. The biggest takeway they take from your feedback is whether to change some overall aspect of the game or not and here's your end result of all your "please fix or nerf" threads you all have been happily making for months.
    I personally have no problem with anything this new patch presented am only upset to see all your greatly exaggerated whining has caused Palps to be removed altogether from the game.
    cucjqd5p8g4i.gif
    Remember the most powerful walk the line between rage and serenity.
  • Another thing I might add is that this "stamina" frature just promotes running away in GA and attack-spamming with no strategy involved whatsoever. Another thing that is fixed by reverting the system back to what it used to be.

    Don't fix, revert

    (Sorry I commented a second time but I already edited my last post twice and so far my posts got deleted everytime I edited them three times. Wanted to prevent that)
  • Fevee
    221 posts Member
    It's garbage. Stamina was rare-enough of a resource, as it was. And while people like to complain about infinite blocking, there is no such thing. Sure, Vader and Rey are pesky when they pop their infinite stamina, but that still only lasts so long before ending, and then stamina drains, and then no more blocking.

    Losing so much stamina just from holding up your saber? That's ridiculous, it was better as it was, when stamina only drains when you're struck. Even then, the pre-patch system was pretty trashy, too. If a character wasn't blocking before a saber barrage came in, they stumble around like an ****, and are unable to even attempt to defend themselves. Whereas if an assailant struck a defensive pose, they stumble back for way too long. Seriously, every saber hero in this game behave like they've never held a saber before. I'm better off bludgeoning a defending Vader as Finn.

    I don't play many melee-based sword games, so I'm not familiar with their game mechanics, but stumbling around like that just kills the idea that anyone was actually trained for melee combat. But get rid of the stumble, save that for ranged infantry. When I press block, and am actually facing my opponent, then let me actually block. Perhaps if block was pressed at the right time, it'll stumble the opponent. But if I was blocking a mile away, then it should just be a deflection, and the assailant can continue.

    Make it so that melee blocks don't drain as much stamina, but give some sort of block breaker. Like a heavy attack that breaks blocks or give extra damage to unguarded units. I say completely toss saber combat out the window, and look up some sort of sword combat game as the reference. Make it so that playing as a melee hero feels like a completely different game; actually worth playing for once.
  • Fevee
    221 posts Member
    Honestly, jumping was way more problematic than blocking has been so far.

    Rey's mind trick: Suddenly everyone is filled with helium and spends more time in the air than on the ground. It's a skillless counter to her ability, and it almost guaranteed to keep you safe.

    Meanwhile Palpatine is always more time airborne than on the ground. Might as well embrace this make him immune to gravity. He'll be a floating thunder cloud.


    Add some sort of anti-air counter other than Luke's push. Make melee aerial strikes worth something, some sort of aerial interception move.
  • awakespace wrote: »
    I for one would like Jump Attack back to break blocking. I thought the skill needed to do this was slight above waiting for them to just run out of stamina.

    It also leaves the person who doing the jump attack open for an attack for a brief moment. Reward vs Risk.

    You are another who is voting for:

    DON'T FIX, REVERT!

    ^^

  • Liz4rD
    764 posts Member
    awakespace wrote: »
    I think the first thing to do is revert saber combat back to the way it was before you removed the jump swing block break. When that happened everyone was upset (no one was happy) with the change. We still don't know why you changed that. The remedy to this saber combat issue was already in the game. People keep mentioning it here in this thread. It is the really really simple solution to this issue. Do this immediately in a hotfix. Also in this hot fix just revert Palpatine to the way he was before you tried to solve the ATAT issue - he was perfect then - the ATAT issue is not a big deal at all.

    And of course get rid of this new stamina drain system - please don't keep it because you have invested time in it and are now feeling sentimental and are experiencing the sunk cost fallacy - it is no good

    And if you want to start tweaking it to make it better - follow the post below - it is the most liked post in this thread
    Anoh wrote: »
    No feedback too small? Good:


    The current lightsaber mechanics are not very complexe. To add some complexity to them here is what they could look like with a few achievable tweaks:

    New system:

    • Base mechanic:

    fzqrjcra1kfr.gif


    • Layer of complexity: (Inspired by For Honor)

    The defender would be able to induce to his opponent the stun/stagger animation one gets when attacking a blocking saber hero in the current system by tapping either block (again) or attack at the time of impact of the attackers saber attack.


    Regarding Stamina:

    The defender's stamina would burn up x1.5 faster as the attacker's stamina. (For balance/gameplay reasons, to kind of encourage players to use this mechanic.)

    Regarding the updated stagger/stun:

    The current stagger/stun is long enough so that the attacker can intake 2 saber strikes before gaining control over his character again;
    With the updated one - as the attacker - you would be able to dodge out of the stagger/stun animation after intaking one saber hit from the counter-attack of the defender. Only the dodge would allow you to avoid the second potential saber counter-attack from the defender. You would regain control of your character as soon as you dodge, or if you don't, at the end of the stun/stagger animation.

    To be clear with the stagger/stun: same duration as now, but with the added option to break out of it by dodging after taking one saber counter-attack from the defender.


    Potential second layer of complexity:

    The attacker sent into the stagger/stun animation could trigger a saber lock mini game like from Battlefront 2015 by tapping block and attack simultaneously at the time of impact of the defender's counter-attack. Both Heroes would be invulnerable to damage during the saber lock mini game. The one who wins the saber lock mini game would deal a 300 damage saber strike.


    Additional cool mechanic: When 2 lightsaber heroes attack each other simultaneously, they both are sent into a shorter stagger/stun animation than the counter attack one, same animation but a little sped up.


    Any further suggestions for development are more than welcome.

    Thanks!

    Like everything except the part of the animation and mini game., that CUTS the real time fight. And the rest of the players? Cant they attack? They must watch meanwhile the two engaged in the 'duel' end the 'minigame'? ABSURD.
  • Jimmy89
    124 posts Member
    Just deleted the 90 gb game. thanks Dice.
  • I don’t like it, and after testing it and playing multiple matches with multiple characters it doesn’t work in any game mode for me, I think it encourages people to run from a fight because attacking means losing stamina which is like reducing your chances of win a fight 1 vs 1 and even if you win the next fight will probably lose. I really didn’t have any problem with infinite blocking before but now I find people just running jumping or using the Yavin 4’s glitched spot more than before, in general they don’t want to face you (that in HvV or HS) and in GA you can’t do anything against a heavy sentry or a normal trooper and while some people think it’s good because now it requires skill I find that is the first that attacks or the one with more health or the one with better abilities that wins the fight
    Being honest I wouldn’t like this system to stay in any gamemode, I preferred even the previous system, but I’m sure this focused feedback thread can help to improve it
    I think @Anoh gave a very good idea for a system but for me, at least it would be reverting the recent patch system, make attacking a block not bounce unless you time perfectly and the return of clashes and heavy attacks from the previous game (I know the only useless button has been assigned to the lightsaber ignition so what I suggest is that holding the attack button longer would make a heavy attack, or somewhere in the attack combo, or switching the lightsaber ignition to holding the change shoulder/camera button because right now if you hold it nothing happens)
    I’m so happy that you try to get the game right and that you’re doing your best, but please, don’t release other update like this
    Thanks for reading all the feedback and looking forward to the fixes!
  • xmasterful
    618 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    awakespace wrote: »
    I for one would like Jump Attack back to break blocking. I thought the skill needed to do this was slight above waiting for them to just run out of stamina.

    It also leaves the person who doing the jump attack open for an attack for a brief moment. Reward vs Risk.

    You are another who is voting for:

    DON'T FIX, REVERT!

    The only reason they have "fixed" is because of everyone's whining for nerfs for months on end. Now they have a nice "fix" they get to enjoy at their own demand. God forbid devs don't cave in to all the grievance airing threads demanding nerfs on these forums left and right.
    cucjqd5p8g4i.gif
    Remember the most powerful walk the line between rage and serenity.
  • As a “rookie” SWBF2 player (I have only been playing for a month), I have found few modes that I truly enjoy playing (Ewok Hunt and Extraction for example). However, after the new changes to heroic blocking, I have found my HvV gameplay to be much more balanced and enjoyable. The same cannot be said for Galactic Assault.

    I have participated in several very close HvV matches (in one of which the final score was 1-0), and I find that I am able to hold my own and resist being killed for a longer period of time (whereas before the update I died in seconds). I am now able to kill lightsaber heroes as either a lightsaber hero or a non-lightsaber hero (still a difficult feat but no longer impossible).
    Also, I have found that the initial hero selections for HvV matches are more diverse. Originally, if you weren’t a lightsaber hero, you were crushed and easily dispatched by those that were. Now, instead of seeing three lightsaber heroes (maximum number of lightsaber heroes in the game), I see a mix of two lightsaber heroes and two non-lightsaber heroes.

    Despite this, in my opinion, positive change (aka the blocking/stamina changes to lightsaber heroes) in the HvV game mode, I find that this almost completely ruins lightsaber hero gameplay in Galactic Assault. Without the extended blocking/stamina, lightsaber heroes are no longer a viable option in GA, where they are constantly under fire from dozens of troops at one time. Literally, spending battle points on a lightsaber hero in GA is a waste of battle points, since your hero dies quickly without doing much damage to the enemy.


    THE SOLUTION:
    1. KEEP the lowered blocking ability change to lightsaber heroes in the HvV game mode.
    2. REMOVE the lowered blocking ability change to lightsaber heroes in the GA game mode.


    Thanks for reading!


    PS. This is a copy of a post I posted under Heroes and Characters.
    Add more Extraction and Hunt maps please!

    What the ROADMAP should look like for 2019/2020:
    “Season” 4: Rogue One
    “Season” 5: Clone Wars Revival
    “Season” 6: Episode IX
  • Yeah not liking the stamina change so far. Hero vs. Hero fighting is quite unenjoyable at the moment. Problem is the dueling system was poorly built in the first place. Not much they can do to actually fix it aside from a complete overhaul which isn't happening.
  • F8RGE

    Is it possible that you can respond to this thread and let us know that you hear what we are saying and your thoughts?

  • xmasterful
    618 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    EDIT: Nvm

    cucjqd5p8g4i.gif
    Remember the most powerful walk the line between rage and serenity.
  • LOL. DICE fails again!!! And still no new weapons. :D :D :D :D :D
  • Kerle wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    They're absolutely awful and need to be reverted ASAP. There is no reason that simply pressing the block button should drain a chunk of stamina every time. Or that blocking while dodging should drain that same chunk.

    Lightsaber combat has been made worse with every change, and this was the change that finally destroyed it altogether. I have been one of your most dedicated players since launch and I don't even feel like playing anymore.

    Im completely on lerodemmy's side for once.

    To point out the exact problem with the new system: It basically punishes you, for even trying to block.

    If you want to keep that system, here are my suggestions:

    1. Bring Yoda back were he was before, he cant block lightsabers anyway, there was no need to change that.
    2. For everyone else, please, at least remove the stamina usage when simply holding your sword up.
    Kylo burning a quarter of his stamina just from lifting his tilt is borderline stoopid.

    3. Rather make the stamina drain exponentially to the blocking time. The longer you hold the block, the faster your stamina burns. Maybe even remove the stamina use on blocking / deflecting altogether and get closer to the blocking system in 2015.

    4. to reduce eternal running & blocking, think about make sprinting costing stamina.

    Further needed adjustments:

    I think it was not just me but pretty much everyone who thought revamped saber combat and changes to block would mean that you remove the bouncing and staggering when hitting a blocking character. Because this is what makes the infinite block so annoying and the overall lightsaber combat as clumsy as it is stoopid.

    5. to fix this, make saber combat more behave like Yoda in general. When he "bounces off" he can just auto-charge on the enemy again and spam his block down. Combat wise I always had the most fun fights always with Yoda vs Vader.

    6. to reduce eternal hiding and blocking, maybe make some force abilities cost stamina. Vaders saber throw alone is so powerful, I wouldnt mind if it cost him 40 - 60% of his stamina.


    So this are my overall suggestions, leaving them here to hopefully get heared.

    I dont like the cost of stamina running out just for running, the reason why is, i really i atleast have a chance to outrun Mr. Airstrike Boba Fett, vader and palpatine'
  • What about using two different stamina bars, one for blocking and one for attacking? And then you could play with the amount of stamina for each bar and each character. Blocking stamina for vader would deplete faster than his attacking stamina or it refills faster and with luke it would be the opposite something like that maybe?

    I think with this system you wouldn't have the problem of having all your stamina used up by blocking so that you can't attack anymore. And it is still a solution to the infinite blocking of lightsaber users. I do think that the blocking stamina should not be as much as the attacking stamina otherwise the lightsaber users would be OP in my opinion.
  • Wystamm wrote: »
    I play Galactic assault alot, and often with a lightsaber jedi, and with that change, i can't stand in front of attacks anymore. Can't lead my team, i have to run and hide, run, kill, run and hide... not my vision of playing an hero !

    What this guys said, Heroes in BF are far from heroes, more like cowering babies scared to face off 3-4 players dew to getting wrecked. Heroes use nothing more than hit and run tactics when they should be leading the team.

    People constantly ask for good changes and you guys simply ignore it, do your own thing and make this game worse and worse every update, Hero Starfighter is awful as well, no thought or planning, just chuck everything in a map and hope for the best, considering most Hero ships are useless in starfighter assault 80% of the time, whose bright idea was it to throw them together when they are completely unbalanced.
    GcRvyBd.gif
    I have honestly seen better games made by companies with 1/1000th of the budget and resources, how can a game be worse almost 1 year after launch than it was when it started./center]
  • stevenomes wrote: »
    season 3 - fix bugs and balancing. July-Aug 2018

    season 4 - clone wars - fall-winter 2018.

    Season 3 Fix bugs and Balancing
    Season 4 Clone Wars
    Season 5 Fix everything we broke in Clone Wars
    GcRvyBd.gif
    I have honestly seen better games made by companies with 1/1000th of the budget and resources, how can a game be worse almost 1 year after launch than it was when it started./center]
  • Wystamm wrote: »
    I play Galactic assault alot, and often with a lightsaber jedi, and with that change, i can't stand in front of attacks anymore. Can't lead my team, i have to run and hide, run, kill, run and hide... not my vision of playing an hero !

    What this guys said, Heroes in BF are far from heroes, more like cowering babies scared to face off 3-4 players dew to getting wrecked. Heroes use nothing more than hit and run tactics when they should be leading the team.

    People constantly ask for good changes and you guys simply ignore it, do your own thing and make this game worse and worse every update, Hero Starfighter is awful as well, no thought or planning, just chuck everything in a map and hope for the best, considering most Hero ships are useless in starfighter assault 80% of the time, whose bright idea was it to throw them together when they are completely unbalanced.

    Boba's Slave 1 is OP with the Seismic Charge. That thing is easy kills.
    We need a Tier System for the Heroes. It would justify the "op-ness" of Vader over Han and Chewbacca. It would cost much more to unlock Vader, and would require you to save a lot more than for other heroes and vehicles, but it would be rewarding in the end...

    "It would essentially ruin the eras and turn them into nothing much more than the same thing and same experience but with a different skin. Which is contrary to the point in having eras in the first place." - ZmanGames
  • Yeldarb
    231 posts Member
    At this point if the changes aren't reverted I'm just gonna sell or trade in my copy.
  • Kerle
    427 posts Member
    Wystamm wrote: »
    I play Galactic assault alot, and often with a lightsaber jedi, and with that change, i can't stand in front of attacks anymore. Can't lead my team, i have to run and hide, run, kill, run and hide... not my vision of playing an hero !

    What this guys said, Heroes in BF are far from heroes, more like cowering babies scared to face off 3-4 players dew to getting wrecked. Heroes use nothing more than hit and run tactics when they should be leading the team.

    People constantly ask for good changes and you guys simply ignore it, do your own thing and make this game worse and worse every update, Hero Starfighter is awful as well, no thought or planning, just chuck everything in a map and hope for the best, considering most Hero ships are useless in starfighter assault 80% of the time, whose bright idea was it to throw them together when they are completely unbalanced.

    Boba's Slave 1 is OP with the Seismic Charge. That thing is easy kills.

    I'd gladly take the time to explain to you why the Slave is the weakest hero ship right now, since shes only able to outmaneuver the falcon and her bomb has a way to long cooldown and shes easily countered by Tallie Lintra with her Team Healing & Dmg resistance buff. Also, all light side heroes have either an Afterburner or a Selfheal to compensate the Bomb or leave the AoE in time, since the bomb is visible to everybody by its blinking symbol.

    Sadly I cant do this, cause this thread is meant to deliver feedback on the lightsaber combat and stamina changes.
    Please stick to the point.
    "Lady Gaga said shes addicted to [THC]. And its not harmless." - Jeff Sessions, US Attorney General

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  • AzorAhai
    1261 posts Member
    I played HvV this morning as Kylo Ren and had no issues at all with stamina.
  • Kerle wrote: »
    Wystamm wrote: »
    I play Galactic assault alot, and often with a lightsaber jedi, and with that change, i can't stand in front of attacks anymore. Can't lead my team, i have to run and hide, run, kill, run and hide... not my vision of playing an hero !

    What this guys said, Heroes in BF are far from heroes, more like cowering babies scared to face off 3-4 players dew to getting wrecked. Heroes use nothing more than hit and run tactics when they should be leading the team.

    People constantly ask for good changes and you guys simply ignore it, do your own thing and make this game worse and worse every update, Hero Starfighter is awful as well, no thought or planning, just chuck everything in a map and hope for the best, considering most Hero ships are useless in starfighter assault 80% of the time, whose bright idea was it to throw them together when they are completely unbalanced.

    Boba's Slave 1 is OP with the Seismic Charge. That thing is easy kills.

    I'd gladly take the time to explain to you why the Slave is the weakest hero ship right now, since shes only able to outmaneuver the falcon and her bomb has a way to long cooldown and shes easily countered by Tallie Lintra with her Team Healing & Dmg resistance buff. Also, all light side heroes have either an Afterburner or a Selfheal to compensate the Bomb or leave the AoE in time, since the bomb is visible to everybody by its blinking symbol.

    Sadly I cant do this, cause this thread is meant to deliver feedback on the lightsaber combat and stamina changes.
    Please stick to the point.

    Mc'scuse me, but I was merely commenting on how I dislike Hero Starfighter, as it is probably the most basic and cheese "mode" they could possibly make. That thing should take less than a day to make. Also, in SA, Slave 1 is horrible, I know. In this mode, it is still pretty bad if you get a fighter on your 6, but at least you have teammates. And if you have a decent team, just dropping a SC is a great way to get some free kills/deal heavy damage. They think that you're a free kill for being so hulking and limited in your manuverability, but then you have your team mates follow them. Drop a SC, and it's some good damage or even a kill.

    But yeah, let's stay on topic. I hate the "rework", if you can even call it that. That's the equivalent of changing the curtains in your dining room and saying that you redid the whole room. But somehow, the new curtains you picked out made an already messy and bad dining room even worse. People don't like how clunky the combat is. The stagger from striking a block is what people dislike. GET RID OF THAT. THIS is a doable rework:

    -Light Attack (tap the attack button/trigger. same as normal striking now)
    -Heavy Attack (hold attack button/trigger. take the light attack, add more frames in the beginning to make it have a charge up period. Or, you can also take the ending frames of a basic strike when you pause in between attacks and keep it like that. The Heavy Attack costs more stamina and is slower due to more frames, but it deals more damage and deals heavy stamina damage to a blocker)
    -Block (hold ADS. same as now, but it doesn't cause a stagger at all. Light Attacks can chain together right off of each other, like in the Luke v Vader gif that has been posted a lot around here. Fluid, not clunky, combat)
    -Parry (Hold ADS and press attack just before a strike lands. Staggers the enemy SIMILAR to now, and let's you get in a free light attack. Missing a Parry will leave you vulnerable, so don't mess up)

    Light Attacks can chain together fluidly when hitting a Block. Heavy Break down blocks faster and deal more damage than Light Attacks, but are slower and more risky. A Parry will stagger a Light Attack and allow for a counter attack. However, if a Parry connects with a Heavy Attack, they will both be very slightly staggered and recover at around the same time. Also, attacks can connect with each other as well. Light Attacks bounce off each other and can chain as well. A Light Attack will be staggered and take damage when hit by a Heavy Attack. Two Heavy Attacks will cause a Saber Clash. During the Saber Clash, you mash the attack button to push the enemy back, and whoever wins deals heavy damage. You can also sidestep at just the right time, if you wait for a small window to dodge out of the way. If you dodge at the wrong time, you'll take heavy damage like you would if you lost the clash. You can also initiate a Saber Clash by holding the attack button when performing a Parry against a Heavy Attack.

    There. That seems fun.
    We need a Tier System for the Heroes. It would justify the "op-ness" of Vader over Han and Chewbacca. It would cost much more to unlock Vader, and would require you to save a lot more than for other heroes and vehicles, but it would be rewarding in the end...

    "It would essentially ruin the eras and turn them into nothing much more than the same thing and same experience but with a different skin. Which is contrary to the point in having eras in the first place." - ZmanGames
  • People keep saying don't fix, revert but this doesnt really fix saber combat does it, sure the stamina will be back to how it was but there's still no way of actually striking a lightsaber without being repelled by that awful stagger! It is actually laughable really haha the only way saber vs saber can be resolved on the battlefield on this game is by trying to get behind the enemy or catch them with a force ability then getting a couple of strikes in I mean yeah ok that's cool but wtf in what star wars universe have you EVER seen a lightsaber bounce off the opponents lightsaber like that it is totally pathetic and disgraceful I love this game and it is slowly getting better I really do feel that but there's still so much that needs fixing and that a not even without mentioning the content drought, but I digress. Please can we push it as hard as we can to have saber combat sorted in the way we actually want? It does not need much as you can see the post earlier in this same thread that concept for lightsaber combat is absoloutley amazing and could be done with very little effort not exactly a revamp as soon as that godawful stagger is removed saber combat will flow a lot better then maybe later down the line think about a small revamp including heavy attacks to break blocks!
    There is one thing that is needed to make saber combat especially in GA better (other than the stamina fix.)

    REMOVE BLOCK STAGGER
  • Wystamm wrote: »
    I play Galactic assault alot, and often with a lightsaber jedi, and with that change, i can't stand in front of attacks anymore. Can't lead my team, i have to run and hide, run, kill, run and hide... not my vision of playing an hero !

    Now people know how Darth Maul players always feel

    And look at the outrage


    And please allow us to seamlessly emote and ignite our sabers at the same time
  • As a “rookie” SWBF2 player (I have only been playing for a month), I have found few modes that I truly enjoy playing (Ewok Hunt and Extraction for example). However, after the new changes to heroic blocking, I have found my HvV gameplay to be much more balanced and enjoyable. The same cannot be said for Galactic Assault.

    I have participated in several very close HvV matches (in one of which the final score was 1-0), and I find that I am able to hold my own and resist being killed for a longer period of time (whereas before the update I died in seconds). I am now able to kill lightsaber heroes as either a lightsaber hero or a non-lightsaber hero (still a difficult feat but no longer impossible).
    Also, I have found that the initial hero selections for HvV matches are more diverse. Originally, if you weren’t a lightsaber hero, you were crushed and easily dispatched by those that were. Now, instead of seeing three lightsaber heroes (maximum number of lightsaber heroes in the game), I see a mix of two lightsaber heroes and two non-lightsaber heroes.

    Despite this, in my opinion, positive change (aka the blocking/stamina changes to lightsaber heroes) in the HvV game mode, I find that this almost completely ruins lightsaber hero gameplay in Galactic Assault. Without the extended blocking/stamina, lightsaber heroes are no longer a viable option in GA, where they are constantly under fire from dozens of troops at one time. Literally, spending battle points on a lightsaber hero in GA is a waste of battle points, since your hero dies quickly without doing much damage to the enemy.


    THE SOLUTION:
    1. KEEP the lowered blocking ability change to lightsaber heroes in the HvV game mode.
    2. REMOVE the lowered blocking ability change to lightsaber heroes in the GA game mode.


    Thanks for reading!


    PS. This is a copy of a post I posted under Heroes and Characters.

    So you admit to having 1/10th the experience of others but yet welcome this nerf (punishment) against everybody else just because you do not have skill..... the fact that now you are getting kills probably has less to do with you being better and more to do with the top players no longer playing since dice has ruined the game.
  • Kerle
    427 posts Member
    UhOhItsJus wrote: »
    As a “rookie” SWBF2 player (I have only been playing for a month), I have found few modes that I truly enjoy playing (Ewok Hunt and Extraction for example). However, after the new changes to heroic blocking, I have found my HvV gameplay to be much more balanced and enjoyable. The same cannot be said for Galactic Assault.

    I have participated in several very close HvV matches (in one of which the final score was 1-0), and I find that I am able to hold my own and resist being killed for a longer period of time (whereas before the update I died in seconds). I am now able to kill lightsaber heroes as either a lightsaber hero or a non-lightsaber hero (still a difficult feat but no longer impossible).
    Also, I have found that the initial hero selections for HvV matches are more diverse. Originally, if you weren’t a lightsaber hero, you were crushed and easily dispatched by those that were. Now, instead of seeing three lightsaber heroes (maximum number of lightsaber heroes in the game), I see a mix of two lightsaber heroes and two non-lightsaber heroes.

    Despite this, in my opinion, positive change (aka the blocking/stamina changes to lightsaber heroes) in the HvV game mode, I find that this almost completely ruins lightsaber hero gameplay in Galactic Assault. Without the extended blocking/stamina, lightsaber heroes are no longer a viable option in GA, where they are constantly under fire from dozens of troops at one time. Literally, spending battle points on a lightsaber hero in GA is a waste of battle points, since your hero dies quickly without doing much damage to the enemy.


    THE SOLUTION:
    1. KEEP the lowered blocking ability change to lightsaber heroes in the HvV game mode.
    2. REMOVE the lowered blocking ability change to lightsaber heroes in the GA game mode.


    Thanks for reading!


    PS. This is a copy of a post I posted under Heroes and Characters.

    So you admit to having 1/10th the experience of others but yet welcome this nerf (punishment) against everybody else just because you do not have skill..... the fact that now you are getting kills probably has less to do with you being better and more to do with the top players no longer playing since dice has ruined the game.

    I agree here. Being crushed as a blaster hero against saber wielders... thats simply the lack of skill.
    Aside from Vader, the list of characters being accussed of being "too OP" is pretty much Blaster heroes only:
    Iden, Chewie, Bossk, Boba (well, in the past), Landos stun, Leias secondary fire.

    Cant remember when someone asked for a Luke or Ren nerfed, cause theyre too strong.
    "Lady Gaga said shes addicted to [THC]. And its not harmless." - Jeff Sessions, US Attorney General

    "Yeah, ok, Jeff. But Lady Gaga also said: 'I think that men and women deserve to love each other equally'...
    ...So please, Jeff, if you going to live your life according to Gaga quotes, accept the entire canon." - John Oliver.
  • Spiito
    1652 posts Member
    Wiggling my Saber as Kylo now costs stamina, which is a bit of a kill joy.

    Han Solo: We're gonna win.
    Qi'ra: It’s not that kind of game, Han. The object is not to win but to stay in it as long as you can.
    9R8CmGh.gif
  • awakespace wrote: »
    Kerle wrote: »
    I think this is the first time, since launch, legitimately say the following:

    Pretty much everyone on here agrees with each other. The people have spoken DICE.

    1. Revert this stamina stuff, enable jump attacks as guard breaks again, reset Papa Palp (to Solo Season part 1) and theres your hotfix.

    2. Then remove the knock-back, staggering on hitting a blocking opponent. You're done.


    This is pretty much what everybody here agrees on. It doesnt require new animation, a new mechanic or anything else expensive. This is not complicated. We have delivered focused, objective and valueable criticism.

    Now its your turn, DICE.

    F8RGE - this post is essentially the summary of about 99% of what this thread is saying

    This is it - you asked - this is the answer - we even took programming ease into account

    Please do this DICE

    Thanks!

    DON'T FIX, REVERT

    Don't bother. DICE won't do what you want. They lack the mental intellect to do so. A lot of valid points are being made here, and they'll fall on deaf ears.
  • Forsaken
    36 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Lightsaber Combat getting better - maybe just buff stamina a bit in HvV and also decrease drain in GA so they can defend themselves longer/better

    And I agree solo season part 1 Emp was fine- just reset him to that
  • Kerle wrote: »
    UhOhItsJus wrote: »
    As a “rookie” SWBF2 player (I have only been playing for a month), I have found few modes that I truly enjoy playing (Ewok Hunt and Extraction for example). However, after the new changes to heroic blocking, I have found my HvV gameplay to be much more balanced and enjoyable. The same cannot be said for Galactic Assault.

    I have participated in several very close HvV matches (in one of which the final score was 1-0), and I find that I am able to hold my own and resist being killed for a longer period of time (whereas before the update I died in seconds). I am now able to kill lightsaber heroes as either a lightsaber hero or a non-lightsaber hero (still a difficult feat but no longer impossible).
    Also, I have found that the initial hero selections for HvV matches are more diverse. Originally, if you weren’t a lightsaber hero, you were crushed and easily dispatched by those that were. Now, instead of seeing three lightsaber heroes (maximum number of lightsaber heroes in the game), I see a mix of two lightsaber heroes and two non-lightsaber heroes.

    Despite this, in my opinion, positive change (aka the blocking/stamina changes to lightsaber heroes) in the HvV game mode, I find that this almost completely ruins lightsaber hero gameplay in Galactic Assault. Without the extended blocking/stamina, lightsaber heroes are no longer a viable option in GA, where they are constantly under fire from dozens of troops at one time. Literally, spending battle points on a lightsaber hero in GA is a waste of battle points, since your hero dies quickly without doing much damage to the enemy.


    THE SOLUTION:
    1. KEEP the lowered blocking ability change to lightsaber heroes in the HvV game mode.
    2. REMOVE the lowered blocking ability change to lightsaber heroes in the GA game mode.


    Thanks for reading!


    PS. This is a copy of a post I posted under Heroes and Characters.

    So you admit to having 1/10th the experience of others but yet welcome this nerf (punishment) against everybody else just because you do not have skill..... the fact that now you are getting kills probably has less to do with you being better and more to do with the top players no longer playing since dice has ruined the game.

    I agree here. Being crushed as a blaster hero against saber wielders... thats simply the lack of skill.
    Aside from Vader, the list of characters being accussed of being "too OP" is pretty much Blaster heroes only:
    Iden, Chewie, Bossk, Boba (well, in the past), Landos stun, Leias secondary fire.

    Cant remember when someone asked for a Luke or Ren nerfed, cause theyre too strong.

    Any suggestions on how to improve my blaster hero gameplay? Any videos I should watch?
    Add more Extraction and Hunt maps please!

    What the ROADMAP should look like for 2019/2020:
    “Season” 4: Rogue One
    “Season” 5: Clone Wars Revival
    “Season” 6: Episode IX
  • And secondly, I think looking at the issue from multiple perspectives helps. While the experts may outnumber the rookies (or intermediate players), the devs don’t want to ruin the game for either side. If they make it too hard for the rookies, they won’t play. If they make it too easy for the rookies, the experts won’t play. The best case scenario is that rookies can slowly gain experience and improve their skills, while experts remain the best players in the game and are not overpowered by rookie players.
    Add more Extraction and Hunt maps please!

    What the ROADMAP should look like for 2019/2020:
    “Season” 4: Rogue One
    “Season” 5: Clone Wars Revival
    “Season” 6: Episode IX
  • I know it’s probably an un-popular opinion but I quite like the changes, it gives me something extra to think about and opens up new strategies which I appreciate. However, I will also be the first to admit that it’s currently rough around the edges and could do with some changes to make it shine.

    Sometime in the future I would like make my own thread giving my opinions on how I feel the lightsaber combat should change in realistic ways, for now however I wish to focus on the issue at hand.

    My opinions come as someone who spends the vast majority of their playing time on HvV rather than G.A. but I will as much as possible try to consider G.A when voicing my suggestions. I will try to offer up unique suggestions rather than repeating what has already been said (I admit I haven’t read everything so someone might of beat me to the punchline).

    My first comment however completely ignores what I just wrote as it’s already a popular opinion but I wish to back it up that stamina needs a buff in particular to blaster fire, it just disappears too quickly at the moment this should improve both HvH and G.A.

    Something which I think is important too consider is that stamina is tied to both defence (blocking) and attack (lunging). The issue arises where either as currently stamina depletes quickly, making players manage it for block but in turn means that lightsaber users will commonly have no stamina by the time they reach their opponent for lunge attacks.

    Alternatively stamina is great enough to allow players to have stamina left over to engage but then blaster users get frustrated that they can’t break the foes block before combat without excessive force (no pun intended).

    My personal solution would be to actually remove the requirement of stamina to make a lunge attack. This will allow stamina to be balanced on its fundamental use – block management. The obvious repercussion of this is that lightsaber will find it easier to stay on their target. I don’t necessarily think this is a bad thing, I would argue that I think in one on one situations the roll is very good at evading lightsaber attacks particularly when the saber user isn’t able to lunge their timed attacks.

    What we can do however with the above change is to reduce the amount of saber stun. I have mentioned before that I think a good idea is that after a maximum of two saber hits (either 2 from the same user or 1 hit from two users) the opponents on the receiving end receives a small duration of cc immunity, just enough to guarantee a roll away.

    These combined changes I feel would make the game a lot feel more skill based, Blaster users won’t feel like they are getting stunned to death and can evade danger with well-timed rolls, while the saber users will feel like they are given a chance to catch blasters with their own timed strikes. All in the meantime stamina is being allowed to be balanced properly on blocking.

    Additional thoughts are that the changes are a obvious nerf to saber users despite that in my opinion that they weren’t any greater than blaster heroes. Therefore, as we are nerfing stamina why not give saber users a new method of regaining stamina other than waiting for it to refresh? I propose that successful lightsaber attacks (which hit their target and not deflected) not only give back the stamina they spent making the attack but also reward the user with additional stamina. I think particularly with the above changes it will really reward saber users who are able to time their attacks well and outplay opponents who roll. By landing successful consecutive hits the saber user will be given a refreshed opportunity to deflect any incoming attacks, while blaster users will be rewarded for successfully evading attacks by insuring the saber users keeps their stamina depleted.

    A small note while I’m talking about timing lightsaber attack have you considered changing slightly the controls for attacking? Instead of pressing the attack button for each attack you wish to make, simply make it a hold down to attack button, upon releasing the button the saber user will finish their current attack and will cease to make anymore. It might help prevent the current issue where the lightsaber user makes more attacks than intended (bug or not) which can have fatal consequences. Just a thought.

    One big issue with the change which at the moment I am struggling to solve, is force powers. Holding block is really important to avoid these powers and they can be really lethal, in particular near death pits. Against an enemy who is kiting you, you can either hold block and they will force power you or not block at all and get force powered. Obviously, you can try to time a block/dodge at the right time but this takes a lot more than skill than the user making the attack. My only suggestion is to reduce the affect cc has on heroes (in particular knock back), I believe this to be a popular request anyway as cc is very strong against heroes and will somewhat help minimise the issue.

    Thank you for anyone who managed to read the big block of text above. I won’t claim that the above will fix everything there could be an issue with my suggestions or I missed or overlooked something. However, I do think that these changes will move the system in the right direction and help in achieving a more fulfilling experience.
  • Will9113
    35 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    I know it’s probably an un-popular opinion but I quite like the changes, it gives me something extra to think about and opens up new strategies which I appreciate. However, I will also be the first to admit that it’s currently rough around the edges and could do with some changes to make it shine.

    Sometime in the future I would like make my own thread giving my opinions on how I feel the lightsaber combat should change in realistic ways, for now however I wish to focus on the issue at hand.

    My opinions come as someone who spends the vast majority of their playing time on HvV rather than G.A. but I will as much as possible try to consider G.A when voicing my suggestions. I will try to offer up unique suggestions rather than repeating what has already been said (I admit I haven’t read everything so someone might of beat me to the punchline).

    My first comment however completely ignores what I just wrote as it’s already a popular opinion but I wish to back it up that stamina needs a buff in particular to blaster fire, it just disappears too quickly at the moment this should improve both HvH and G.A.

    Something which I think is important too consider is that stamina is tied to both defence (blocking) and attack (lunging). The issue arises where either as currently stamina depletes quickly, making players manage it for block but in turn means that lightsaber users will commonly have no stamina by the time they reach their opponent for lunge attacks.

    Alternatively stamina is great enough to allow players to have stamina left over to engage but then blaster users get frustrated that they can’t break the foes block before combat without excessive force (no pun intended).

    My personal solution would be to actually remove the requirement of stamina to make a lunge attack. This will allow stamina to be balanced on its fundamental use – block management. The obvious repercussion of this is that lightsaber will find it easier to stay on their target. I don’t necessarily think this is a bad thing, I would argue that I think in one on one situations the roll is very good at evading lightsaber attacks particularly when the saber user isn’t able to lunge their timed attacks.

    What we can do however with the above change is to reduce the amount of saber stun. I have mentioned before that I think a good idea is that after a maximum of two saber hits (either 2 from the same user or 1 hit from two users) the opponents on the receiving end receives a small duration of cc immunity, just enough to guarantee a roll away.

    These combined changes I feel would make the game a lot feel more skill based, Blaster users won’t feel like they are getting stunned to death and can evade danger with well-timed rolls, while the saber users will feel like they are given a chance to catch blasters with their own timed strikes. All in the meantime stamina is being allowed to be balanced properly on blocking.

    Additional thoughts are that the changes are a obvious nerf to saber users despite that in my opinion that they weren’t any greater than blaster heroes. Therefore, as we are nerfing stamina why not give saber users a new method of regaining stamina other than waiting for it to refresh? I propose that successful lightsaber attacks (which hit their target and not deflected) not only give back the stamina they spent making the attack but also reward the user with additional stamina. I think particularly with the above changes it will really reward saber users who are able to time their attacks well and outplay opponents who roll. By landing successful consecutive hits the saber user will be given a refreshed opportunity to deflect any incoming attacks, while blaster users will be rewarded for successfully evading attacks by insuring the saber users keeps their stamina depleted.

    A small note while I’m talking about timing lightsaber attack have you considered changing slightly the controls for attacking? Instead of pressing the attack button for each attack you wish to make, simply make it a hold down to attack button, upon releasing the button the saber user will finish their current attack and will cease to make anymore. It might help prevent the current issue where the lightsaber user makes more attacks than intended (bug or not) which can have fatal consequences. Just a thought.

    One big issue with the change which at the moment I am struggling to solve, is force powers. Holding block is really important to avoid these powers and they can be really lethal, in particular near death pits. Against an enemy who is kiting you, you can either hold block, your stamina will drain and they will force power you or not block at all and get force powered. Obviously, you can try to time a block/dodge at the right time but this takes a lot more than skill than the user making the attack. My only suggestion is to reduce the affect cc has on heroes (in particular knock back), I believe this to be a popular request anyway as cc is very strong against heroes and will somewhat help minimise the issue.

    Thank you for anyone who managed to read the big block of text above. I won’t claim that the above will fix everything there could be an issue with my suggestions or I missed/overlooked something, I guess that's all part of game design. However, I do think that these changes will move the system in the right direction and help in achieving a more fulfilling experience.
    Post edited by Will9113 on
  • Yeldarb
    231 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Way to ruin double XP weekend dice you completely butchered block I have no reason to play now the game is less fun are you trying to kill this game? Because that's what you're doing.
    Post edited by Yeldarb on
  • DICE you have made a huge mistake. Having stamina depleted everytime you press the block button is too much. I suggest stamina gets depleted at a slower rate when holding block. Maybe one dot per 4 seconds
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