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Real Discussion on balancing Hero combat vs Trooper combat.

Topic that will be covered.
  1. Abilities that currently Overpowered vs heroes.
  2. Abilities that currently Underpowered vs Troopers
  3. Separating Hero vs Hero (HVH) combat and Hero vs Trooper Combat (HVT).

Abilities that are currently Overpowered vs Heroes.
  • Bossk’s Mines
    1. Too much damage
    2. Can lay down mines back to back. (lay mines and cool down begins Coold down should be once mines explode.)
  • Rocket Barrage
    Still too much damage. Suggest lowing anti hero rocket card.
  • Freeze
    Last too long. If blaster is nearby, it’s a one hit kill. Reduction to 2.5 seconds needed.
  • Vader’s choke
    Unavoidable by Blaster heroes. Less damage to heroes due to Vader’s Combo with Choke.
  • Iden’s stun/DPS
    You can kill any light side hero within her stun. Her main blaster does too much damage to heroes.
  • Iden’s Secondary
    Splash damage is too large. Understand you can’t change this. Over all reduction to damage vs hero’s is needed.
  • Iden’s Shield
    Really, immune to everything but melee or sabers. Explosive damage needs to go through shield but with a damage reduction.
  • Furious Bowcaster
    Chewies output with headshots is far to great. Can kill anyone in stun with 3 headshots. 4 With a buffed vader.
  • Lando’s shock
    Again Taking Any HERO down during 1 stun is vastly OP. Suggest breaking on damage threshold of 200 as many others have stated. I understand this will leave Lando lacking so I suggest a buff to his night sniper. Making Smoke Grenade remove run but not jump.
  • Phasma’’s Droid
    Stuns way to often. Damage is high also. Shoots you at any range.
  • Palpatine (Will update once he’s back)
  • Combat Staggering
    This Mechanic in the game introduced in Patch 1.2 Has taken finease out of Saber fighting. It feels RNG (random number generated) IF you get staggered when a saber, it will take 2-5 preses of dodge to get dodge to activate. This was never an issue before. You could always dodge after 1 hit. You shouldn’t randomly be punished by a mechanic you have no control over activating or using.
  • Troopers rolling away from Force abilities.
    No Trooper should be able to roll from a force ability. Period.
  • Enforcers (touchy subject) Can inflict too much damage to heroes overall.

Abilities that are currently Underpowered Vs Trooper
  • Rocket Barrage
    Should absolutely wreck troopers. Shouldn’t take 2-5 missiles to take out a trooper.
  • Mind Trick
    Useless unless you come up behind them. Leaves Rey Vulnerable for too long. (not mine but a friend asked to put this in)
  • Maul’s throw
    Should one shot anything but a heavy. So 150 damage.
  • Frenzy
    Leaves Ren way to exposed. I suggested to make this also his how to heal with the bloodlust card. Remove 2 attacks from bloodlust. Leach effect added. 100% at tier 4 degrading 20% after each hit.
  • Freeze
    You get to say “Cowards” Emote then run yourself. Because let’s face it you may kill 1-2 troopers but the other 2 will kill you before you can get to cover. Suggestion is to have it break on 200 damage. This way Kylo can get some kills when he Freeze’s troopers. Overall nerf to Freeze but Direct buff to Kylo
  • Pull
    Base damage should be 125 vs troopers Star card adding 50 so they can kill anything but a heavy with a pull.
  • Phasma Main Blaster
    Overall feels lack luster. Vanguard can kill you before you can kill them.
  • Vader’s saber throw
    Should one hit kill anything. 200 Damage first hit 50 damage on return.
  • Leia’s Flash Grenade
    Should remove Players healthbar from them.(seeing the player outline through blind) So they can’t still shoot Leia. Also suggest making it more like officers flash bang. Causing damage and removes the ability to jump. It's Leia after all.
  • Lando’s Night Sniper (at distance)
    Needs a buff. Even at Medium range, unless your headshot master, you have to cool your blaster after every kill. Small buff to damage vs troopers is needed from med to long range.
  • Block And Dodge
    Should reflect trooper bolts with super High Accuracy. Dodge you should be able to dodge trooper fire.
Separating Hero vs Hero (HVH) combat and Hero vs Trooper Combat (HVT).

Above are my suggestion to begin the separation of Hero combat Vs Trooper combat and Hero vs hero combat. Nothing is the end all be all and this is all open to suggestion. I think this is the direction this game needs to take in order to balance properly GA and HVH. AND if Heroes meet on the battlefront in GA, they can not cheaply kill one another. I believe there is no other true way to make everyone happy. Those who love GA and those who love the HvV combat.

This goes for the same thing. What Trooper vs Hero is too strong??
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Replies

  • Devlin21
    8305 posts Member
    Rook008 wrote: »
    Real Discussion on balancing Hero combat vs Trooper combat.

    Where's the "Overpowered over Troopers" section?
    Or is this just another "Heroes need a buff" thread?

    None of them are.

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  • lerodemmy
    3334 posts Member
    Good list. I agree with pretty much all of it. Probably because I was talking to you while you made it.
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  • lerodemmy
    3334 posts Member
    Rook008 wrote: »
    Real Discussion on balancing Hero combat vs Trooper combat.

    Where's the "Overpowered over Troopers" section?
    Or is this just another "Heroes need a buff" thread?

    None of them are.

    Correct.
    21 years in the making... the wait is almost over. Pre-order RESIDENT EVIL 2 now!
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  • EventHorizionOH
    1365 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Rook008 wrote: »
    Real Discussion on balancing Hero combat vs Trooper combat.

    Where's the "Overpowered over Troopers" section?
    Or is this just another "Heroes need a buff" thread?

    This is a list on how to make GA and HvV players happy. Start balancing the game for both modes. Like Luke for example. He (to me) shows that it's possible and successful.

    But to directly answer your question.

    This is a buff hero/nerf hero vs hero combat, and to buff hero vs trooper combat.
    "I play Star Wars like real life, I try not to die if possible."

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  • rollind24
    5024 posts Member
    Rook008 wrote: »
    Real Discussion on balancing Hero combat vs Trooper combat.

    Where's the "Overpowered over Troopers" section?
    Or is this just another "Heroes need a buff" thread?

    This is a list on how to make GA and HvV players happy. Start balancing the game for both modes. Like Luke for example. He (to me) shows that it's possible and successful.

    But to directly answer your question.

    This is a buff hero/nerf hero vs hero combat, and to buff hero vs trooper combat.

    And why exactly does Hero V Trooper combat need to be buffed?
    #infantrylivesmatter
  • Rook008
    838 posts Member
    Ah, I see. I read the title and was hoping for actual balance instead of "Hero" balance. Okay.

    Good luck to you in all of your future endeavors. :)
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  • rollind24 wrote: »
    Rook008 wrote: »
    Real Discussion on balancing Hero combat vs Trooper combat.

    Where's the "Overpowered over Troopers" section?
    Or is this just another "Heroes need a buff" thread?

    This is a list on how to make GA and HvV players happy. Start balancing the game for both modes. Like Luke for example. He (to me) shows that it's possible and successful.

    But to directly answer your question.

    This is a buff hero/nerf hero vs hero combat, and to buff hero vs trooper combat.

    And why exactly does Hero V Trooper combat need to be buffed?

    SOME hero vs trooper combat needs buffed. Not all.
    "I play Star Wars like real life, I try not to die if possible."

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  • Empire_TW
    5109 posts Member
    A good list but I don't think you have the authority to talk about Kylo. I'd comment on the part about Iden but I'm not allowed to.
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  • TwinSp1re
    126 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    rollind24 wrote: »
    Rook008 wrote: »
    Real Discussion on balancing Hero combat vs Trooper combat.

    Where's the "Overpowered over Troopers" section?
    Or is this just another "Heroes need a buff" thread?

    This is a list on how to make GA and HvV players happy. Start balancing the game for both modes. Like Luke for example. He (to me) shows that it's possible and successful.

    But to directly answer your question.

    This is a buff hero/nerf hero vs hero combat, and to buff hero vs trooper combat.

    And why exactly does Hero V Trooper combat need to be buffed?

    SOME hero vs trooper combat needs buffed. Not all.

    Yet no need for nerfs of hero vs trooper... (or buff trooper vs hero?)... /sigh That was his point.

    I agree mechanics have to be changed HvV vs GA... It's way to difficult to balance both with the same stats.

    That said there is a lot of changes that should happen in GA and not all of it are buffs to heroes. The fact you don't bring up anything other than buffs to heroes vs infantry says something... about where you want the unbalance to be.

    They list 11! things that need to be buffed against infantry... and NOT ONE thing that should be nerfed (or buffed in troopers favor).

    AND then you end it with what Trooper vs Hero is too strong... calling for nerfs of troopers.... lmao!!!!

    Literally LMAO.. .Glad you aren't game developer.
  • BUT to be fair.

    What would you all like to see buffed as a trooper vs heroes? What out there is too weak when you're running around as any of the base 4 classes that should do more damage to Heroes? Or should have more of an affect against them?

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  • Devlin21
    8305 posts Member
    Infantry are way more powerful than heroes.
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  • TwinSp1re wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    Rook008 wrote: »
    Real Discussion on balancing Hero combat vs Trooper combat.

    Where's the "Overpowered over Troopers" section?
    Or is this just another "Heroes need a buff" thread?

    This is a list on how to make GA and HvV players happy. Start balancing the game for both modes. Like Luke for example. He (to me) shows that it's possible and successful.

    But to directly answer your question.

    This is a buff hero/nerf hero vs hero combat, and to buff hero vs trooper combat.

    And why exactly does Hero V Trooper combat need to be buffed?

    SOME hero vs trooper combat needs buffed. Not all.

    Yet no need for nerfs of hero vs trooper... (or buff trooper vs hero?)... /sigh That was his point.

    I agree mechanics have to be changed HvV vs GA... It's way to difficult to balance both with the same stats.

    That said there is a lot of changes that should happen in GA and not all of it are buffs to heroes. The fact you don't bring up anything other than buffs to heroes vs infantry says something... about where you want the unbalance to be.

    They list 11! things that need to be buffed against infantry... and NOT ONE thing that should be nerfed (or buffed in troopers favor).

    AND then you end it with what Trooper vs Hero is too strong... calling for nerfs of troopers.... lmao!!!!

    Literally LMAO.. .Glad you aren't game developer.

    Maybe I am a bit confused here. But WHY on earth would you ever buff a trooper vs hero? Heroes are meant to be strong. Troopers are not. They are the common everyday Joe.

    Troopers should NEVER have an advantage over a hero. EVER. Otherwise what is the point of playing a hero.

    Correct me if I am wrong but your thoughts are this.

    I spawn in as Luke. But OHH NO I see a specialist. They are LUKE's counter. Yay Specialist win because their shock grenade froze Luke in Place and you got free head shots.

    Literally LMAO I am glad YOU'RE not a game developer.

    Buff doesn't mean better than something else (well not specifically) it means improving or increasing something. Just as nerf is the opposite, reducing something. Buff (increase) damage, Nerf (decrease) damage etc. Just because something is buffed doesn't mean it is better than something else.

    Since buff/nerf are opposites either can balance something in a game. That is why I was careful to mention either option. There are fans of both, some always cry buff and other cry nerf for everything. Me I think having both as an option is best depending on the scenario.

    Should discussion about hero health vs damage done by infantry be on the table? Yes and if not, you don't really want to have a "Real Discussion".

    Some things I would consider changing about heroes in GA... I would not advocate applying all changes but at least some in different combinations.

    Remove health Regen (buff health a little even)
    Decrease health
    Increase BP cost
    add spawn timer, hero dies another cannot be selected for X time.
    adaptive hero allowance.. aka a new hero can not be spawned unless both teams have same # of heroes.
    limit one hero per player per match
    remove BP earnings as hero (keep XP)
    disallow objective interaction

    As for an Anti Hero class or weapon... That is an option but it would have to be sufficiently weak against infantry or itself cost more BP like a super enforcer. I think the above would be better solutions.

    I am not going to come out and say things specifically that need to be buffed about infantry. As I haven't played enough hero to know what would be specifically appropriate.

    Being a decent trooper on the receiving end, I do think right now they are waaay more OP then they should be.

    It really says something that in most cases getting a hero will double+ your kills almost instantly...

    IMO Heroes should be good bursts of power/danger. Used to break that def line etc. They are too sustainable right now, players lasting most of the match with them.






  • @TwinSp1re

    I understand where you're coming from. You seem to favor Trooper combat over Hero combat. That fines. But there should not be any advantage troopers should get over heroes. Spending BP for an anti hero weapon I think is a bad idea. You can just throw yourself at a hero until you defeat them and only spend like 200-400 bps.

    Yes good players can hold a hero almost all map. Perhaps a time limit is needed. 4 Minuets and you can refresh it by killing people or playing the objective. This will force people into playing.

    You gain very little BP as heroes.

    Buff does mean make it better. I don't think any current infantry weapon needs a buff against hero. Neither do any of their abilities. I believe troopers have the advantage because they can "dive bomb" heroes with vanguard or infiltration.

    You always know where the heroes are.
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  • BlazinSVK
    25 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    please stop with such topics. Noobs complained light saber heroes are OP and EA nerfed them recently. Stop this mess with a balance. There isn't anything that bad, everything is fine.
    these all are drastic major changes, we don't need so much changes anyway
  • BlazinSVK wrote: »
    please stop with such topics. Noobs complained light saber heroes are OP and EA nerfed them recently. Stop this mess with a balance. There isn't anything that bad, everything is fine.
    these all are drastic major changes, we don't need so much changes anyway

    I can see where you didn't even read what I wrote. Thanks for coming out.
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  • DrX2345
    2888 posts Member
    I agree with most of this. Maybe the thing about Bossk's mines should be changed so cooldown starts when one of them is activated, because otherwise one of them might go in a weird place where it won't detonate and then one of his abilities is out of action.
    I don't think troopers need a buff against heroes tbh. Yeah, it's frustrating when you keep dying to some Rey who's running around with Insight active spawn killing you on Naboo, but in the long run there's not much that can really be done about it and I don't think a trooper should be able to just kill a hero super easily. Maybe certain heroes need a slight nerf, like Palpatine (although we'll have to see what changes they make to him), but generally I think HvT combat is fine (saying this as mostly a trooper player). There are decent counters on most classes (Vanguard, Flash Grenade, Stinger Pistol and Shock Grenade) plus troopers don't cost 6,000 BP (I know it's a terrible argument, but heroes are going to be superior over troopers given that they actually cost points).
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  • Rook008 wrote: »
    Real Discussion on balancing Hero combat vs Trooper combat.

    Where's the "Overpowered over Troopers" section?
    Or is this just another "Heroes need a buff" thread?

    This is a list on how to make GA and HvV players happy. Start balancing the game for both modes. Like Luke for example. He (to me) shows that it's possible and successful.

    But to directly answer your question.

    This is a buff hero/nerf hero vs hero combat, and to buff hero vs trooper combat.

    No, this is a list on how to make the hero-players happy in GA. It’s also a list on how to make the remaining players (those who can’t or don’t want to play as heroes) die even more to something that is already superior, and that is not a good thing. Should they listen to this then they also need to cut the numbers of heroes active at the same time drastically. 1-2 at a time per team. Never more.
  • @TwinSp1re

    I understand where you're coming from. You seem to favor Trooper combat over Hero combat. That fines. But there should not be any advantage troopers should get over heroes. Spending BP for an anti hero weapon I think is a bad idea. You can just throw yourself at a hero until you defeat them and only spend like 200-400 bps.

    Yes good players can hold a hero almost all map. Perhaps a time limit is needed. 4 Minuets and you can refresh it by killing people or playing the objective. This will force people into playing.

    You gain very little BP as heroes.

    Buff does mean make it better. I don't think any current infantry weapon needs a buff against hero. Neither do any of their abilities. I believe troopers have the advantage because they can "dive bomb" heroes with vanguard or infiltration.

    You always know where the heroes are.

    Did I ever say trooper should be better than a hero at anything? Well except for being able to engage objectives in GA. As I said BUFFing a trooper could mean they do just a little more damage... conversely you could nerf heroes and give them less health... basically same effect. I am not even advocating for this. I just found it telling you had 11 buffs against infantry BUT NOTHING the other way.


    I sacrifice myself against heroes all the time... they run away and heal making my sacrifice nothing... thus reasoning for removing health regen. THAT is the frustrating part. When you do get things together and kill a hero... right after that is just seeing another hero spawn 10 seconds after all that work.

    Funny you asked for suggestions and I made a number of them, NONE of which had anything to do with buffing troopers... Yet you focused on that and a anti hero class suggestion that I specifically said probably wouldn't work as as my suggestions. You mad no comments on them what so ever.

    I have no problem with a hero showing up and causing chaos, I have a problem with their survive-ability in comparison to their power in GA. IMO they should be more rare at the power level they are now. So imo either reduce their power or reduce their availability.

    The steamrolls in GA are caused in a large part by the BP/Hero system. Its hard to get BP when your team doesn't have a hero to counter the one that is just running around keeping people in the spawn screen (not earning BP). Then in phase 3 is 2-4 heroes to your teams 0.
  • il96
    386 posts Member
    I disagree with about 90% of the OP suggestions and pretty much all Hero vs trooper suggestions. Everyone entitled to their opinion, those fixes all seem like game breakers. C'mon Kylo pull does 150 damage? Another example Lando stun breaks after 200 damage. I understand when you get caught in it is like a death sentence, villains need to simply be cautious and aware and not just rush him like a fool. W/o that stun Lando is useless he will spend an entire match rolling avoiding melee's.
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  • il96
    386 posts Member
    Did I read a time limit on heroes and time is added per kill. Now i'm done, I cant be on this thread anymore. SMH
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  • I can understand asking for a reduction in regeneration while buffing overall health or damage reduction. It is very frustrating to ambush a hero/villain (Bossk in particular), only to have them run away and regen. I'd rather have heroes in front leading the charge rather than kill one or two troopers then run and hide. But, that would change the whole balance of he game, so I don't think a drastic change like that will happen. Maybe Bossk's regeneration will be nerfed, but that will probably be it.
  • il96 wrote: »
    I disagree with about 90% of the OP suggestions and pretty much all Hero vs trooper suggestions. Everyone entitled to their opinion, those fixes all seem like game breakers. C'mon Kylo pull does 150 damage? Another example Lando stun breaks after 200 damage. I understand when you get caught in it is like a death sentence, villains need to simply be cautious and aware and not just rush him like a fool. W/o that stun Lando is useless he will spend an entire match rolling avoiding melee's.

    Kylo pull does 125 damage. 50 extra with the card.

    Nightsniper would need a buff if stun broke on 200 damage.
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  • il96 wrote: »
    Did I read a time limit on heroes and time is added per kill. Now i'm done, I cant be on this thread anymore. SMH

    I said there "could" be one. Didn't say there "should" be one. It's a discussion.
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  • TwinSp1re wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    Rook008 wrote: »
    Real Discussion on balancing Hero combat vs Trooper combat.

    Where's the "Overpowered over Troopers" section?
    Or is this just another "Heroes need a buff" thread?

    This is a list on how to make GA and HvV players happy. Start balancing the game for both modes. Like Luke for example. He (to me) shows that it's possible and successful.

    But to directly answer your question.

    This is a buff hero/nerf hero vs hero combat, and to buff hero vs trooper combat.

    And why exactly does Hero V Trooper combat need to be buffed?

    SOME hero vs trooper combat needs buffed. Not all.

    Yet no need for nerfs of hero vs trooper... (or buff trooper vs hero?)... /sigh That was his point.

    I agree mechanics have to be changed HvV vs GA... It's way to difficult to balance both with the same stats.

    That said there is a lot of changes that should happen in GA and not all of it are buffs to heroes. The fact you don't bring up anything other than buffs to heroes vs infantry says something... about where you want the unbalance to be.

    They list 11! things that need to be buffed against infantry... and NOT ONE thing that should be nerfed (or buffed in troopers favor).

    AND then you end it with what Trooper vs Hero is too strong... calling for nerfs of troopers.... lmao!!!!

    Literally LMAO.. .Glad you aren't game developer.

    There already is a buff for Troopers against Hero in games, it's called numbers.

    A lot of people think that a single trooper should be able to handle a Hero, i am not attacking you personal with this, but their is no need for it, Troopers need to be weaker then Heros otherwise we don't need Heros on the field at all.
    A small group of Troopers, including Enforcers and Areials can take on any of the Heros out there, some of the Heros out there, like Han and Chewie for example are rather easy to take down with more people as they lack a way to regen Health.
    Plus lets not forget, there is always the Option to have Heros on both Sides
  • rollind24
    5024 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    TwinSp1re wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    Rook008 wrote: »
    Real Discussion on balancing Hero combat vs Trooper combat.

    Where's the "Overpowered over Troopers" section?
    Or is this just another "Heroes need a buff" thread?

    This is a list on how to make GA and HvV players happy. Start balancing the game for both modes. Like Luke for example. He (to me) shows that it's possible and successful.

    But to directly answer your question.

    This is a buff hero/nerf hero vs hero combat, and to buff hero vs trooper combat.

    And why exactly does Hero V Trooper combat need to be buffed?

    SOME hero vs trooper combat needs buffed. Not all.

    Yet no need for nerfs of hero vs trooper... (or buff trooper vs hero?)... /sigh That was his point.

    I agree mechanics have to be changed HvV vs GA... It's way to difficult to balance both with the same stats.

    That said there is a lot of changes that should happen in GA and not all of it are buffs to heroes. The fact you don't bring up anything other than buffs to heroes vs infantry says something... about where you want the unbalance to be.

    They list 11! things that need to be buffed against infantry... and NOT ONE thing that should be nerfed (or buffed in troopers favor).

    AND then you end it with what Trooper vs Hero is too strong... calling for nerfs of troopers.... lmao!!!!

    Literally LMAO.. .Glad you aren't game developer.

    There already is a buff for Troopers against Hero in games, it's called numbers.

    A lot of people think that a single trooper should be able to handle a Hero, i am not attacking you personal with this, but their is no need for it, Troopers need to be weaker then Heros otherwise we don't need Heros on the field at all.
    A small group of Troopers, including Enforcers and Areials can take on any of the Heros out there, some of the Heros out there, like Han and Chewie for example are rather easy to take down with more people as they lack a way to regen Health.
    Plus lets not forget, there is always the Option to have Heros on both Sides

    I see this as a micro level view of the balance. I’m not sure many people are advocating for a trooper to be on the same level as a hero (I’m sure there’s someone out there that thinks this). The balance of 4 out of 20 units being hero’s isn’t necessarily balanced, add in Aerial and Enforcer number and the numbers become even more lopsided. This is why I see no reason for buffing Hero v Trooper combat.

    Edit/ If they created a large mode for infantry then I wouldn’t care about buffing Hero’s v Troopers. Move GA to the Hero’s tab of the game and have at it.
    #infantrylivesmatter
  • TwinSp1re wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    Rook008 wrote: »
    Real Discussion on balancing Hero combat vs Trooper combat.

    Where's the "Overpowered over Troopers" section?
    Or is this just another "Heroes need a buff" thread?

    This is a list on how to make GA and HvV players happy. Start balancing the game for both modes. Like Luke for example. He (to me) shows that it's possible and successful.

    But to directly answer your question.

    This is a buff hero/nerf hero vs hero combat, and to buff hero vs trooper combat.

    And why exactly does Hero V Trooper combat need to be buffed?

    SOME hero vs trooper combat needs buffed. Not all.

    Yet no need for nerfs of hero vs trooper... (or buff trooper vs hero?)... /sigh That was his point.

    I agree mechanics have to be changed HvV vs GA... It's way to difficult to balance both with the same stats.

    That said there is a lot of changes that should happen in GA and not all of it are buffs to heroes. The fact you don't bring up anything other than buffs to heroes vs infantry says something... about where you want the unbalance to be.

    They list 11! things that need to be buffed against infantry... and NOT ONE thing that should be nerfed (or buffed in troopers favor).

    AND then you end it with what Trooper vs Hero is too strong... calling for nerfs of troopers.... lmao!!!!

    Literally LMAO.. .Glad you aren't game developer.

    There already is a buff for Troopers against Hero in games, it's called numbers.

    A lot of people think that a single trooper should be able to handle a Hero, i am not attacking you personal with this, but their is no need for it, Troopers need to be weaker then Heros otherwise we don't need Heros on the field at all.
    A small group of Troopers, including Enforcers and Areials can take on any of the Heros out there, some of the Heros out there, like Han and Chewie for example are rather easy to take down with more people as they lack a way to regen Health.
    Plus lets not forget, there is always the Option to have Heros on both Sides

    Ahh. Refreshing clarity.
  • WodiQuix
    4443 posts Member
    rollind24 wrote: »
    TwinSp1re wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    Rook008 wrote: »
    Real Discussion on balancing Hero combat vs Trooper combat.

    Where's the "Overpowered over Troopers" section?
    Or is this just another "Heroes need a buff" thread?

    This is a list on how to make GA and HvV players happy. Start balancing the game for both modes. Like Luke for example. He (to me) shows that it's possible and successful.

    But to directly answer your question.

    This is a buff hero/nerf hero vs hero combat, and to buff hero vs trooper combat.

    And why exactly does Hero V Trooper combat need to be buffed?

    SOME hero vs trooper combat needs buffed. Not all.

    Yet no need for nerfs of hero vs trooper... (or buff trooper vs hero?)... /sigh That was his point.

    I agree mechanics have to be changed HvV vs GA... It's way to difficult to balance both with the same stats.

    That said there is a lot of changes that should happen in GA and not all of it are buffs to heroes. The fact you don't bring up anything other than buffs to heroes vs infantry says something... about where you want the unbalance to be.

    They list 11! things that need to be buffed against infantry... and NOT ONE thing that should be nerfed (or buffed in troopers favor).

    AND then you end it with what Trooper vs Hero is too strong... calling for nerfs of troopers.... lmao!!!!

    Literally LMAO.. .Glad you aren't game developer.

    There already is a buff for Troopers against Hero in games, it's called numbers.

    A lot of people think that a single trooper should be able to handle a Hero, i am not attacking you personal with this, but their is no need for it, Troopers need to be weaker then Heros otherwise we don't need Heros on the field at all.
    A small group of Troopers, including Enforcers and Areials can take on any of the Heros out there, some of the Heros out there, like Han and Chewie for example are rather easy to take down with more people as they lack a way to regen Health.
    Plus lets not forget, there is always the Option to have Heros on both Sides

    I see this as a micro level view of the balance. I’m not sure many people are advocating for a trooper to be on the same level as a hero (I’m sure there’s someone out there that thinks this). The balance of 4 out of 20 units being hero’s isn’t necessarily balanced, add in Aerial and Enforcer number and the numbers become even more lopsided. This is why I see no reason for buffing Hero v Trooper combat.

    Edit/ If they created a large mode for infantry then I wouldn’t care about buffing Hero’s v Troopers. Move GA to the Hero’s tab of the game and have at it.

    Yes, please! Turning Point would be an excellent addition.

  • AzorAhai
    1140 posts Member
    My heavy trooper thinks he's a hero. He's wrong most of the time. Hardheaded.
  • Deanna_Tamura
    317 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    rollind24 wrote: »
    TwinSp1re wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    Rook008 wrote: »
    Real Discussion on balancing Hero combat vs Trooper combat.

    Where's the "Overpowered over Troopers" section?
    Or is this just another "Heroes need a buff" thread?

    This is a list on how to make GA and HvV players happy. Start balancing the game for both modes. Like Luke for example. He (to me) shows that it's possible and successful.

    But to directly answer your question.

    This is a buff hero/nerf hero vs hero combat, and to buff hero vs trooper combat.

    And why exactly does Hero V Trooper combat need to be buffed?

    SOME hero vs trooper combat needs buffed. Not all.

    Yet no need for nerfs of hero vs trooper... (or buff trooper vs hero?)... /sigh That was his point.

    I agree mechanics have to be changed HvV vs GA... It's way to difficult to balance both with the same stats.

    That said there is a lot of changes that should happen in GA and not all of it are buffs to heroes. The fact you don't bring up anything other than buffs to heroes vs infantry says something... about where you want the unbalance to be.

    They list 11! things that need to be buffed against infantry... and NOT ONE thing that should be nerfed (or buffed in troopers favor).

    AND then you end it with what Trooper vs Hero is too strong... calling for nerfs of troopers.... lmao!!!!

    Literally LMAO.. .Glad you aren't game developer.

    There already is a buff for Troopers against Hero in games, it's called numbers.

    A lot of people think that a single trooper should be able to handle a Hero, i am not attacking you personal with this, but their is no need for it, Troopers need to be weaker then Heros otherwise we don't need Heros on the field at all.
    A small group of Troopers, including Enforcers and Areials can take on any of the Heros out there, some of the Heros out there, like Han and Chewie for example are rather easy to take down with more people as they lack a way to regen Health.
    Plus lets not forget, there is always the Option to have Heros on both Sides

    I see this as a micro level view of the balance. I’m not sure many people are advocating for a trooper to be on the same level as a hero (I’m sure there’s someone out there that thinks this). The balance of 4 out of 20 units being hero’s isn’t necessarily balanced, add in Aerial and Enforcer number and the numbers become even more lopsided. This is why I see no reason for buffing Hero v Trooper combat.

    Edit/ If they created a large mode for infantry then I wouldn’t care about buffing Hero’s v Troopers. Move GA to the Hero’s tab of the game and have at it.

    But the numbers you put in there apply for both sides, either side can have Heros, Enforcers and Arial units on the field. I also never said that Heros needed a buff against Troopers, some might like Boba, i was simply saying there is no need to buff Troopers against Heros.
  • Han_Spinel
    1102 posts Member
    Does anyone know if Leia's Squad Shield has always blocked Saber throws? If not, it does now. I imagine this was not intended.
    In 1977, a single shot rang out at the Cantina.... No first, no second. Han shot - end of statement.

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  • wwkingms
    765 posts Member
    They've given Luke's abilities different damaging values depending on it being a trooper or villain.

    The same can be implemented for stamina/blocking
    I've always understood the need to nest endlessly block blaster fire as a hero vs 20 troopers who can pinpoint u on a map.

    But in HvV/Showdown that created a rather mindless lack of tactic saber vs blaster. We've all felt helpless as finn 1v1 with Vader just holding block while menacing toward u , only to have half of your blaster rounds hit yourself in the face, get force-choked which is unavoidable and eat the saber throw dmg or 1-2 saber strikes when you are dropped to the ground for a moment. That, is absolutely mindless play.


    Making stamina drain active while holding is silly and wasnt the answer.
    But from the other end it should have changes, where hero blaster rounds and saber strikes should drain a rationally higher value of stamina than trooper/enforcers.
  • Agree with most of this except bobas rocket barrage nerf. If you nerf that his gun better be good and able to ADS
  • Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Does anyone know if Leia's Squad Shield has always blocked Saber throws? If not, it does now. I imagine this was not intended.

    Yeah it's always blocked them
  • MC_XIX
    1426 posts Member
    You can't nerf Boba's rockets vs heroes without buffing his useless concussion missile and peashooter blaster. Your list is ok, I agree with some of it but disagree with more of it tbh.

    Concussion Missile should deal 50 damage and knock enemies off their feet while keeping the same effect it has now. Either that or its screen distortion needs buffing massively, because it does not stop enemies from seeing clearly at all.

    Maul's saber throw already deals 150 damage...

    You suggest way too many nerfs to Iden. Nerf her blaster, her stun droid AND her secondary fire? No. She'd be as bad as she was on release.

    Vader's choke is already unavoidable by blaster heroes. They can't roll to dodge it. It currently only deals 123~ damage. With Saber Throw after it deals 273, which in the grand scheme of things isn't that much considering a lot of heroes have 800 health and regenerate 250hp. No nerf required.

    I will respect your opinions and leave my post at this, but I really do disagree with this list mainly based on how many nerfs you want applied to heroes.
  • EventHorizionOH
    1365 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    To
    MC_XIX wrote: »
    You can't nerf Boba's rockets vs heroes without buffing his useless concussion missile and peashooter blaster. Your list is ok, I agree with some of it but disagree with more of it tbh.

    Concussion Missile should deal 50 damage and knock enemies off their feet while keeping the same effect it has now. Either that or its screen distortion needs buffing massively, because it does not stop enemies from seeing clearly at all.

    Maul's saber throw already deals 150 damage...

    You suggest way too many nerfs to Iden. Nerf her blaster, her stun droid AND her secondary fire? No. She'd be as bad as she was on release.

    Vader's choke is already unavoidable by blaster heroes. They can't roll to dodge it. It currently only deals 123~ damage. With Saber Throw after it deals 273, which in the grand scheme of things isn't that much considering a lot of heroes have 800 health and regenerate 250hp. No nerf required.

    I will respect your opinions and leave my post at this, but I really do disagree with this list mainly based on how many nerfs you want applied to heroes.

    Boba's rockets are still OverPowered vs heroes. I know many people don't agree with this statement but I am talking about small changes. perhaps 5-8 damage off per rocket.

    Iden has the highest sustained DPS in the game. Her stun only lasts for about 2 seconds and you can take 800 hp off in 2 seconds with just her blaster. Yes head shots are needed, but thats 400 dps. Sustained. Boba's rockets are less than that.

    The so called nerfs is to balance out Hero vs Hero combat, while keeping damage high on troopers. Yes most of the nerfs are coming from the Dark Side. But let's face it. Dark side is vastly superior to the light side in Hero vs Hero combat.
    "I play Star Wars like real life, I try not to die if possible."

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  • Ohh, i meant Maul's Choke Throw, not saber throw.
    "I play Star Wars like real life, I try not to die if possible."

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  • Han_Spinel
    1102 posts Member
    Ohh, i meant Maul's Choke Throw, not saber throw.

    No, no, I think you meant both Maul's Saber and choke throw.... >:)

    I can live with the rate of Phasma's droid fire/stun, but I think it's health should be decreased (I'm pretty sure it requires almost double the "head shots" to destroy it relative to eliminating a Villain), and it absolutely needs to disappear upon defeat.

    "Making Smoke Grenade remove run but not jump."
    This is an awesome idea to attach to that ability, but I'm kinda scared of it - even if his disabler gets a duration nerf. Keeping jump is key as you mentioned, and Iden has a bubble, so maybe it would be good?

    In 1977, a single shot rang out at the Cantina.... No first, no second. Han shot - end of statement.

    PSN: Han_Spinel
    Youtube: Han Spinel
    Twitter: @Han_Spinel
    The Unofficial Star Wars Battlefront Campaign Companion
  • MC_XIX wrote: »
    You can't nerf Boba's rockets vs heroes without buffing his useless concussion missile and peashooter blaster. Your list is ok, I agree with some of it but disagree with more of it tbh.

    Concussion Missile should deal 50 damage and knock enemies off their feet while keeping the same effect it has now. Either that or its screen distortion needs buffing massively, because it does not stop enemies from seeing clearly at all.

    Maul's saber throw already deals 150 damage...

    You suggest way too many nerfs to Iden. Nerf her blaster, her stun droid AND her secondary fire? No. She'd be as bad as she was on release.

    Vader's choke is already unavoidable by blaster heroes. They can't roll to dodge it. It currently only deals 123~ damage. With Saber Throw after it deals 273, which in the grand scheme of things isn't that much considering a lot of heroes have 800 health and regenerate 250hp. No nerf required.

    I will respect your opinions and leave my post at this, but I really do disagree with this list mainly based on how many nerfs you want applied to heroes.
    Rocket Barrage is very overpowered. Boba’s blaster is fine.

    All of Iden’s abilities are overpowered, except for Pulse Cannon, which isn’t bad. Her abilities also have extremely short cool downs, with Pulse Cannon and Secondary Fire having virtually no cool downs at all.

    Maul is fine, but he has a big advantage in saber combat due to the current stamina situation.

    Depending on the angle/location from which Vader chokes, it can result in a lot more than 273 damage. More importantly, it leaves the affected defenseless against attacks from Vader’s teammates.
  • Devlin21
    8305 posts Member
    Actually, bobas anti heroes rocket card is bugged. It should be doing more damage than it does right now.
    keeboxdf4h4g.gif

  • Bravo, Sir.

    Only point I disagree with: Boba’s rocket barrage against heroes are fine. It’s all he has offensively. Defensively he has his jet pack, which is amazing, and his concussive rocket, which is very, very me-eh. I will only support a nerf to Boba’s rocket barrage against heroes if his EE-3 gets a buff, preferably in the form of accuracy.

    For everything else, I say again: Bravo.
  • Evazan127
    8105 posts Member
    I agree with most 1 thing stood out as a big no:

    Kylo’s pull should not OHK period.
    OHK are ok but u should have to work for it.
  • Evazan127
    8105 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Edit: delete
  • Evazan127 wrote: »
    I agree with most 1 thing stood out as a big no:

    Kylo’s pull should not OHK period.
    OHK are ok but u should have to work for it.

    It would be 125 base, and ONLY 1hk if you use the card except heavies. Anyone buffed wouldn't get 1hk
    "I play Star Wars like real life, I try not to die if possible."

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    PS4 EventHorizonOH
  • Evazan127
    8105 posts Member
    Evazan127 wrote: »
    I agree with most 1 thing stood out as a big no:

    Kylo’s pull should not OHK period.
    OHK are ok but u should have to work for it.

    It would be 125 base, and ONLY 1hk if you use the card except heavies. Anyone buffed wouldn't get 1hk
    I understand I still don’t like it.
  • I like some of your suggested changes. Like making Heroes more effective against infantry, but more balanced in pure hero play.

    But I honestly disagree with a whole lot more of your suggestions.


    • Bossk Mines are completely fine, it takes team work to get through it with Finn or Yoda's health buff.
    Yoda can just literally hold up his block & take 0 explosive damage from Bossks mines, and I love that Yoda has that feature.

    • Boba's rocket barrage is just fine against heroes, I often avoid it by jumping or rolling.


    • I agree that the Freeze is kind of OP against heroes.
    The stasis time should be reduced to 2.5 seconds for freeze, but ONLY for heroes & not infantry.


    • Vader's Choke is not just unavoidable for blaster heroes, but for Saber heroes as well.
    It's incredibly devastating having him force choke & saber throw me, as well as hitting me 2 other times with his saber while I can't roll out of it or anything.
    I think that all heroes should be able to try and avoid it with the dodge and rolls, just as you can avoid Kylos force pull or freeze by rolling...


    • Iden Versio is completely fine, if you nerf her DPS, Secondary fire, Stun droid, and Shield... Then she just becomes hot garbage again like she was at launch.
    No to all of those Iden changes, absolutely horrid.


    • I do agree that Chewbacca's furious bow castor should be nerfed, I think that instead of a damage nerf they should take more time off of the ability per shot. Just so he doesn't have it for what seems like an eternity.
    In my honest opinion though, I wish they would sledgehammer nerf it into the ground so I don't ever have to deal with his shenanigans ever again. It's painfully annoying having him shock me & then kill me instantly in GA & HvV.


    • I don't think that Lando's stun should have a damage cap on it, it's fine as is.


    No comment on Phasma since I hate playing her, she's just one of those heroes that'll forever stay in the garbage can of trash heroes that can't accomplish any true victory.

    No comment on Palpatine.

    Not sure on Combat Staggering, or what you're even referring too with that. But I do know that I absolutely despise getting staggered when I hit a saber block.
    The whole saber combat system needs a full on rework in my opinion.


    • Agree that Troopers and reinforcements shouldn't be able to dodge force powers.


    • The only enforcer that I actually have a serious problem with is the Wookiee Warrior. That enforcer just needs to be deleted out of the game. Like Sledgehammer nerf it, Map lock it to kashyyyk & make it cost 5000 Battle points.
    I don't care what they need to do to stop those things from existing & leaving a waste of destruction wherever they go.



    Hero abilities vs Infantry:

    • Rocket Barrage & Mind Trick are both just fine against infantry.
    I have no issue with how they perform against soldiers.



    • I agree that Mauls throw should do more damage. It's already hard enough to use as is.
    Mauls Throw is still 50% worthless. I would like that when the hit detection gets fixed, the ability overall just gets reworked.
    The saber toss is just incredibly buggy, and half the time it doesn't even damage enemies twice like it's supposed to.
    You just throw it forward & it instantly teleports back into your hand, no extra damage from it coming back like Vader's throw.

    That just needs to be seriously looked at.



    • Kylo Ren is hot garbage against infantry. Once he has his pull & freeze on cooldown he becomes entirely worthless for half a minute.

    I agree 100% that his Frenzy leaves him way to exposed. I'm not sure what the rest of that feedback for the Frenzy is even supposed to mean.
    I honestly cant comprehend what you're talking about after saying that he's incredibly vulnerable... Maybe I'm just hard headed, but I would like if you made that part bit more concise to read.

    What I think they should do is increase his damage resistance to 60% while using the frenzy.
    Then increase his Frenzy damage to 140 instead of 80 against Infantry. While only buffing it to 95 damage against Heroes, when it used to be just 80.

    Freeze just needs to have a shorter cooldown. That's the only real issue with it.
    The stasis effect should not break upon 200 damage. I don't know why you keep on insisting on this nerf for the stuns when it's only going to make Kylo even worse to play.

    I don't think that the Force Pull should do 90 damage at a default against troopers.
    And I think 50 damage at a default vs Heroes would also be



    • I think Vader's saber throw damage is already enough.

    • I agree that Leia's flash grenade is in need of a serious buff. It needs to blind people for a lot longer than it normally does, it needs to have cluster flash nades come out of base flash nade when it detonates on impact which should limit movement from enemies.
    It basically just needs to be like the officer flash grenade.


    • Lando's gun is pure garbage. Leia & Han Easily out DPS him every time. The only things keeping him on his feet are the Stun & Sharp Shot.
    His gun needs a BUFF PERIOD. It's way to inconsistent to use & it's damage is increadibly lackluster. Especially when fighting at a range.

    What a pathetic weapon.

    • I do think that the blocks should reflect lasers a lot more accurately than they do.
    The dodge already helps avoid blaster fire.



    Okay, that's just my 2 cents on what was said in the topic.
    Feel free to dismantle or build upon my opinion however you wish.
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