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August Community Calendar

Unpopular Opinion: Darth Maul Needs a Buff

MC_XIX
1766 posts Member
Ok, so hear me out on this. I know that Maul can be very useful in the right hands. He has great speed, a good lightsaber attack speed, and a spin attack that cuts through infantry and acts as a get-out-of-jail-free card.

But realistically, how good is Maul? Very average I would say, compared to the other lightsaber wielders. I think he needs a couple of very small buffs to improve his chances against another saber user, and his usefulness in GA.

1. Furious Throw. This ability is not very good at all. For something which requires a lot of precision and has such a small hitbox, I would expect this to deal heavy damage. But it doesn't: 150 damage is not very rewarding considering that the ability doesn't register hits properly. The fact that he hurls the saber vertically narrows the hitbox and it's rare to actually get kills. It either needs a much bigger hitbox so that it's as strong as Vader's throw, or higher damage (maybe 200 or so). Right now, all this ability does is disarm Maul for 2 seconds while he waits for his saber to return.

2. Choke Hold. 77 damage. Seriously? That's barely half of a soldier's health! Luke's force push deals 150 damage to infantry, and 90 to villains, and it can be used in the air. Maul has to be on the ground to use his, the damage is terrible, and the two-stage animation leaves him wide open to blaster fire and saber strikes. This needs buffing to be on par with Luke's push. It's completely inferior right now, so it needs to one-hit infantry and deal 90~ damage to heroes. 77 damage is nothing to a buffed soldier, and it may as well deal no damage at all to a hero.

3. Health-on-Kill. Maul can be a tricky target to hit, but no more so than Palpatine, so why does the latter have amazing health regeneration and yet Maul has nothing? He has no way of healing himself after fighting another hero, and it's difficult to kill a hero or a small group of soldiers without losing a lot of health as Maul. I suggest replacing his stamina card 'Frantic Strikes' with a simple HoK card similar to Luke's.

That's all he needs. I'm fine with him having no block - although this makes him quite underpowered in a saber contest, if he had a better health regen or more damage and abilities that actually work, he'd have more of a fair chance against Rey or Luke. Right now, they destroy him far too easily because they have a block and more damage.

Thoughts are welcome...

Replies

  • bfloo
    15522 posts Member
    Please buff Maul. Palps has been the meta for too long.

    Lord Maul must have his moment.

    Lets add Death Watch so he has an actual faction to lead as well.
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  • unit900000
    3262 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    What about we start to ask to buff character who actually are in real need of getting some love ? Like Phasma ?

    she needs her knockdown on her 1st and 2nd strike back but thats about it.
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  • Give him 400 regen and we good.
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  • bfloo
    15522 posts Member
    What about we start to ask to buff character who actually are in real need of getting some love ? Like Phasma ?

    Lets up her rate of fire too and triple the damage with her spear while we are at it, and let her place multiple droids ;)
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  • unit900000 wrote: »
    What about we start to ask to buff character who actually are in real need of getting some love ? Like Phasma ?

    she needs her knockdown on her 1st and 2nd strike back but thats about it.
    bfloo wrote: »
    What about we start to ask to buff character who actually are in real need of getting some love ? Like Phasma ?

    Lets up her rate of fire too and triple the damage with her spear while we are at it, and let her place multiple droids ;)


    Quite honestly you can even multiply by a thousand the damage of the staff and make it freeze people hit by it for 50 seconds that this ability would still be trash with its ridiculous animation speed and low range. Only tetraplegics trying to play this game would actually get hit by it.

    But before i'm accused of derailing the thread (even if for me balance is a subject with multiple connections), i do think that Maul is in a good spot right now and that other things are the abnormality.
  • bfloo
    15522 posts Member
    unit900000 wrote: »
    What about we start to ask to buff character who actually are in real need of getting some love ? Like Phasma ?

    she needs her knockdown on her 1st and 2nd strike back but thats about it.

    Yes, bring back Yoda Baseball :)
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  • I’m with addressing his saber throw hit box.
  • bfloo
    15522 posts Member
    I’m with addressing his saber throw hit box.

    Maybe one day it will actually work right so we can judge it. It isn't consistent.
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  • Give him 400 regen and we good.

    Yea i actually do agree.
    It's not good when you do all the hard work and end up with a handful of health left.
  • Heroes are all balanced enough... tweaks are wasting the time and attention of these developers and obviously new content has been slowed to a stand still.
  • MC_XIX wrote: »
    But realistically, how good is Maul? Very average I would say, compared to the other lightsaber wielders.
    Isn't that EXACTLY where he should be? All heroes should be adjusted so that they are considered "average". That's what balance is.
    unit900000 wrote: »
    im fine with a buff to his saber throw and choke hold but please no heal on kill he dont need it.
    I agree.
    Give him 400 regen and we good.
    No, that's way too much.
  • I would be fine with a buff of the choke hold to 100 - if it was 150 he would likely be too good, because unlike Luke and Yoda, his tends to hit targets

    His saber throw was much better at release than it is now, they have never been able to get it back since it mysteriously stopped working - I'd be happy if it went back to how it was at release

    For health regen I'd recommend something like getting 10 health back on every hit with his rush attack - a bit of variation and not too OP
  • I think a slight buff to force throw could simply be a health recovery (20-50) per target affected by the throw. Right now, there is very little reason to use it in GA because of the potential to be killed during that long animation. Give us some health for using the throw, and I think you will see more star cards building around this rather than the standard set everyone uses right now.
  • hsf_
    1820 posts Member
    This is what happens when you try to make "balance" for 2 completely different game modes. In order for there to be balance in both game modes at the same time, you NEED to have 2 of every hero and villain. One specifically for Heroes vs Villains and Hero Showdown and one specifically for Galactic Assault. They'd need to have different movement speeds, damage, stamina, attack speed, etc etc...


  • Nah maul is good. The midterm important thing is learning how to move with him, when to engage and disengage. Most importantly, you can’t play like a coward like every other teammate.
  • My only complaint with Maul is his saber throw needs to be tweaked
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  • awakespace
    1066 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    DarthLando wrote: »
    My only complaint with Maul is his saber throw needs to be tweaked

    This is the major one - it's been broken for months - it was great at launch

    However I do think this choke throw is a pretty useless ability in GA since it leaves him so vulnerable - so more damage or another perk like a bit of health regen would be useful

    And I think all heroes need a way to regen health so that they are all equally viable in GA - certain heroes should have a harder time doing it, but some way is needed
  • Royal_Redness
    243 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    IMO, the only serious point here is his saber throw accuracy and hit box. I completely agree that it is 100% garbage right now and it has been ever since it became broken with the progression system update. Return it to how it was before the progression update and Maul will be perfectly balanced. His mobility and unlimited stamina more than make up for his lack of HoK, long throw animation, the low damage of throw, his inability to use throw in the air, etc. Vader’s throw does TOO MUCH damage - no sense in making Maul’s throw OP as well... more darkside power is the LAST thing this game needs right now.
  • BTW, I consider myself a Boba/Iden/Maul main for the darkside.
  • MC_XIX
    1766 posts Member
    Thank you for the replies everyone. Glad to see the general consensus is that Maul needs a small buff or two - I thought my opinion would be unpopular!
    unit900000 wrote: »
    im fine with a buff to his saber throw and choke hold but please no heal on kill he dont need it.

    Yeah, I see where you're coming from. HoK isn't essential for Maul, but I don't think it would break him if he had it. Consider that Palps and Rey both have HoK, and they're arguably better than Maul without it anyway.
    What about we start to ask to buff character who actually are in real need of getting some love ? Like Phasma ?

    I know Maul isn't the weakest villain. Boba, Phasma and Kylo are worse. But that doesn't change the fact that his saber throw is very poor and his overall damage output is a little too weak. He needs some attention too.
    Give him 400 regen and we good.

    400 could be a bit OTT. Maul wouldn't really have to work for health return if he had that much regeneration, but I'd gladly accept 300 regen and no HoK.
  • Midichlorian
    1409 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    Frantic Strikes can be extra saber damage to all enemies.
    75+ extra at epic. Make him a true glass canon, while easy to kill, also hard to not be killed by.
    Saber strikes = 95 normal
    Choke = 200 dmg
    Saber throw = 175 dmg
    Spin = 100 dmg
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  • As a person who regularly would get 50+ kill streaks with maul in GA, I think he is balanced overall. The one thing I would say is to increase his health recovered to 325 hp. I think this would be good since he has no HOK card and no block at all. Doesnt make too much sense that Leia could have a better health regen with her star cards (also has HOK) then Darth maul, when Maul is required to get up close to do good with. Everything else is fine, yea I would like the hitbox for the saber throw to be fixed, but when it works, it is quite effective in my opinion. The choke hold is also good, because the ability is meant to completely immobilize the opponent. If you throw them, you can spin attack into them and usually get 2 or 3 lightsaber swings in before the opponent can even react. That's why I say the hold is fine. Dont engage head on with maul, be sneaky, always take the longer, safer route with maul that has no resistence and get a flank off, as he definetly has the mobility to do that. I once got maul during the first stage of naboo and had him for the entire game and didn't die, going on to get a 94 kill streak. He does take some practice to get used to however, I see soooo many people that are like level 5 with maul just spin attacking into groups of like 7 enemies, getting three kills then dying, that's not his play style at all. If maul had HOK card however, he would be completely overpowered, that's why I say only the health regen buff and that's it. That was my two sense :)
  • If maul had HOK card however, he would be completely overpowered, that's why I say only the health regen buff and that's it. That was my two sense :)
    even with HoK he won't get past a group of wookies buffed by Yoda+Finn.
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  • He’s fantastic as is, but replacing one of his less useful cards with one akin to Leia’s High Spirit would be cool. HoK would make him virtually invincible in GA.
  • Ha, it's definitely a no-brainer that He should get a heal on kill card, the fact that were this far in and the dev's are still asleep at the wheel is just another testament to this games failure. With the nerfs Heroes have received compared to the last game, whittling one down through attrition should never be a thing. It's a noob crutch through and through. The Heroes without this trait will always be inferior to those that do in GA, its that simple.

    Lets not pander to the nonsense either @MC_XIX, Darth Maul not blocking is like A jedi without the force, in other words its an oxymoron. If anything the knock back on blocks should be removed entirely, a failed concept that should never have crept its way back in from the last game.
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  • Maul really doesn't need any buffs. Hes a great hero, even at a low level. Hes good in HvV and GA, and honestly I think he is the best non-overpowered hero overall.
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  • Don't know. He seems like one of the better saber heroes given he has enough mobility to actually get in range of blasters before they melt him.

    Sure he's weaker in duels against Luke or Rey, but they're effectively his counters, and he can avoid them pretty easy.
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  • Nah maul is good. The midterm important thing is learning how to move with him, when to engage and disengage. Most importantly, you can’t play like a coward like every other teammate.

    Holy moly players on console are actually terrible... How did they not kill you? They can literally see you at all times on the minimap. This Maul gameplay wasn't impressive. More the enemies being absolute trash
  • Just give him a block and it’s all good
  • Devlin21
    8325 posts Member
    Just give him a block and it’s all good

    No.
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  • Just give him a block and it’s all good

    No.
    Just give him a block and it’s all good

    No.

    Please
  • TonyGoombah1
    1324 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    If they could balance everyone to try to meet with maul where he stands now this game would be a better place. I'd prefer that over buffing maul to compete with the rest of his overpowered darkside brothers.
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  • The forums aren't a popularity contest. Speak your opinion. Lord knows everyone else will.
  • JMaster
    2179 posts Member
    I'm with you. While many more characters need balancing tweaks and/or reworks before Maul, I'm down with giving him some changes (so long as other characters follow suit). I'm all for Health cards for EVERYONE. It makes no sense that a Tank like Vader, a Speedster like the Emperor, or a Monster like Rey get health cards, when glass cannons like Chewie, Han, Lando, Maul, and the rest get nada. Every hero should get one, even though I'd prefer everyone have the ability to heal for getting kills or playing the objective without Star Cards. Oh well. While a card like Lightsaber defense could be reworked into a standard heal-on-kill, I've got another idea to help with another ability of his. Maul's Choke Throw is very situational, and aside from Hero modes it's not very useful. My idea is to re-work one of the Choke's cards (I vouch the one that flings opponents further, his choke throws enemies pretty far already and that's it) to give him a small amount of health for each enemy choked. Call it "Dark Side Draining" or something like that, and he gets 5-15 health from every person he chokes. It's not like the Emperor who aims at a doorway and pushes a button, Maul's far more vulnerable in his Choke, I feel it'd give him some more risk & reward gameplay. Saber Throw needs a better hitbox or a slight homing effect like Vader had last go around, it's definitely buggy and barely ever registers a second hit. I'm also fine with giving him a block, and here's what I've heard suggested and really like. Frantic Strikes or Lightsaber Defense is reworked to give him the ability to block, but at the cost of one of his Spin Attacks. Darth Maul can block, but he loses some of his maneuverability to compensate. There's my rundown, how do you feel?
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  • About the Emperor having amazing healing though...

    Yeah, no. Not really. Unless by some miracle, the whole enemy team is clumped in one place in GA. Otherwise, it's not particularly impressive. And borderline useless for Showdown.
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  • He just need a health on kill, ad all the heroes that don't have it
  • AbyssWatch3r
    4974 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    ,
    haha thats why he can't block
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  • 2n8nchy.jpg

    Don't forget about this. I digress though, the dev's wanna release some of the dumbest off shoots of character concepts, then be my guest. This games already 75% a failure. Almost a year in they just now start releasing decent changes. Clone wars is this games last stand.
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  • oops, posted to the wrong thread, however I'll leave these up if only for the added exposure
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  • MC_XIX wrote: »
    Ok, so hear me out on this. I know that Maul can be very useful in the right hands. He has great speed, a good lightsaber attack speed, and a spin attack that cuts through infantry and acts as a get-out-of-jail-free card.

    But realistically, how good is Maul? Very average I would say, compared to the other lightsaber wielders. I think he needs a couple of very small buffs to improve his chances against another saber user, and his usefulness in GA.

    1. Furious Throw. This ability is not very good at all. For something which requires a lot of precision and has such a small hitbox, I would expect this to deal heavy damage. But it doesn't: 150 damage is not very rewarding considering that the ability doesn't register hits properly. The fact that he hurls the saber vertically narrows the hitbox and it's rare to actually get kills. It either needs a much bigger hitbox so that it's as strong as Vader's throw, or higher damage (maybe 200 or so). Right now, all this ability does is disarm Maul for 2 seconds while he waits for his saber to return.

    2. Choke Hold. 77 damage. Seriously? That's barely half of a soldier's health! Luke's force push deals 150 damage to infantry, and 90 to villains, and it can be used in the air. Maul has to be on the ground to use his, the damage is terrible, and the two-stage animation leaves him wide open to blaster fire and saber strikes. This needs buffing to be on par with Luke's push. It's completely inferior right now, so it needs to one-hit infantry and deal 90~ damage to heroes. 77 damage is nothing to a buffed soldier, and it may as well deal no damage at all to a hero.

    3. Health-on-Kill. Maul can be a tricky target to hit, but no more so than Palpatine, so why does the latter have amazing health regeneration and yet Maul has nothing? He has no way of healing himself after fighting another hero, and it's difficult to kill a hero or a small group of soldiers without losing a lot of health as Maul. I suggest replacing his stamina card 'Frantic Strikes' with a simple HoK card similar to Luke's.

    That's all he needs. I'm fine with him having no block - although this makes him quite underpowered in a saber contest, if he had a better health regen or more damage and abilities that actually work, he'd have more of a fair chance against Rey or Luke. Right now, they destroy him far too easily because they have a block and more damage.

    Thoughts are welcome...

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  • MC_XIX
    1766 posts Member
    Bump!

    I'm glad to see that Maul's Furious Throw has been tweaked so that it has better hit detection. I think that suffices for the ability to be no longer classed as underpowered.

    However, I still feel as though Maul needs a HoK card or a card that increases his base health regeneration. A small buff to Choke Hold damage would be useful too, so that it's more comparable to Luke's Force Push...
  • Devlin21
    8325 posts Member
    MC_XIX wrote: »
    Bump!

    I'm glad to see that Maul's Furious Throw has been tweaked so that it has better hit detection. I think that suffices for the ability to be no longer classed as underpowered.

    However, I still feel as though Maul needs a HoK card or a card that increases his base health regeneration. A small buff to Choke Hold damage would be useful too, so that it's more comparable to Luke's Force Push...

    Especially since they aren't gonna nerf wookiees.

    10hp per kill or per saber hit.

    Something that balances him out. So hes not op.
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  • Raices
    1200 posts Member
    MC_XIX wrote: »
    Bump!

    I'm glad to see that Maul's Furious Throw has been tweaked so that it has better hit detection. I think that suffices for the ability to be no longer classed as underpowered.

    However, I still feel as though Maul needs a HoK card or a card that increases his base health regeneration. A small buff to Choke Hold damage would be useful too, so that it's more comparable to Luke's Force Push...

    I feel his throw is even worse atm.
  • Devlin21
    8325 posts Member
    Raices wrote: »
    MC_XIX wrote: »
    Bump!

    I'm glad to see that Maul's Furious Throw has been tweaked so that it has better hit detection. I think that suffices for the ability to be no longer classed as underpowered.

    However, I still feel as though Maul needs a HoK card or a card that increases his base health regeneration. A small buff to Choke Hold damage would be useful too, so that it's more comparable to Luke's Force Push...

    I feel his throw is even worse atm.

    Really?
    Couldn't be better for me.
    Actually damages now.
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