Anyone else 'cheating' on consoles?
August 24, 2018 3:48AM
edited August 2018
Sorry if the title sounded clickbait-like.
Just wondering if anyone else tried or are currently using a mouse and keyboard when playing the game on console.
I play on PC by default but was driven to switch to console for about a month because of a combination of hacker infestations, lag spikes and difficulty finding games. I found using a M+KB gave me an undisputed advantage over controller users, even with aim assist off (actually I think it worsened my aim). One of the first difference I noticed in console opponent is that they can't turn very quickly, making ambushes more likely to succeed. Their aim wasn't so bad though, probably because of the AA. I also noticed that the top players could similarly do quick turns and complex movements. But the starfighter players seemed far better at movement as compared to PC.
Anyhow, what made me switch back to PC despite the dwindling population was my inability to get used to the console's low Field of View setting, which cannot be adjusted. That plus the locked 60hz framerate which a 165hz addict like me could never accept again despite my best efforts. Everything in console seemed to move like they're in quicksand.
I would have stuck with the M+KB if I continued on console but it seems that there's an ongoing debate on whether it is genuinely cheating. I don't really know at this point since this debate can apply to the PC as well. Everything else being equal, The dude with the 240hz capable system is clearly going to beat the guy playing on 60hz in a shooting contest.
Any thoughts on this? I might move back to console again if the PC playerbase is no longer viable.
Just wondering if anyone else tried or are currently using a mouse and keyboard when playing the game on console.
I play on PC by default but was driven to switch to console for about a month because of a combination of hacker infestations, lag spikes and difficulty finding games. I found using a M+KB gave me an undisputed advantage over controller users, even with aim assist off (actually I think it worsened my aim). One of the first difference I noticed in console opponent is that they can't turn very quickly, making ambushes more likely to succeed. Their aim wasn't so bad though, probably because of the AA. I also noticed that the top players could similarly do quick turns and complex movements. But the starfighter players seemed far better at movement as compared to PC.
Anyhow, what made me switch back to PC despite the dwindling population was my inability to get used to the console's low Field of View setting, which cannot be adjusted. That plus the locked 60hz framerate which a 165hz addict like me could never accept again despite my best efforts. Everything in console seemed to move like they're in quicksand.
I would have stuck with the M+KB if I continued on console but it seems that there's an ongoing debate on whether it is genuinely cheating. I don't really know at this point since this debate can apply to the PC as well. Everything else being equal, The dude with the 240hz capable system is clearly going to beat the guy playing on 60hz in a shooting contest.
Any thoughts on this? I might move back to console again if the PC playerbase is no longer viable.
2
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and as you said it's even a disadvantage in some aspects (starfighters)
Exactly. It is a superior input method for the purpose of FPS gaming... just like controllers are generally superior for flying/driving simulations as they have natural return to 0 which mouse/keyboard doesn't.
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Real players use a 5200 controller and sacrifice their hands to the arthritis gods.
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As far as XB1 goes, it is cheating. M&K isn't officially supported yet. The only way to use M&K is through products fooling the XB1 into believing a controller is being used.
Another thing: The TTK is slower than it was in Battlefront 1, but it's still fast in comparison to many games. Regardless, your argument is weak. M&K is more accurate and precise. That gives an advantage, even with a high TTK.
Oh man that thing was tough.
Emulating input is not cheating.
Cheating definition according to my 150th anniversy edition Websters Dictionary.
Cheating - to Practice fraud or trickery.
Definition of emulating.
Emulating - Ambition or endeavor to excel others.
There for by emulating the controls you are tricking the system to excel over others.
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Please point to any EULA or TOS for a game that deems emulating of controls bannable. Hey it might be so, but highly doubtful. Dictionary definitions arent really ideal when they dont present the correct meaning when used in context that most would consider re gaming.
Except the input it's emulating is not allowed. If M&K was allowed, I would agree with you.
In the EULA for BF2 on XB or PS4, does it specifically say that use of mouse and keyboard is prohibited? Secondly, can you be banned for it?
That will give you the answer to if it is cheating or not.
The emulator in question is probably the Xim, which is what I was using and as far as I know is not an officially licensed product for either console. I was playing on the PS4 though.
Don't buy the Hori Tac Assault M+KB, even though it's licensed. It freaking sucks.
You seem awfully defensive. Got something to share with us?
I play PC only, so no
Well, at least you were willing to admit that M&K gives an advantage.
when comparing mouse and keyboard v controller, may as well compare mouse and keyboard v potato, literally not even close. Advantage yes, cheating....no
Sure... I use a crosshair overlay which is vastly superior to the default crosshair and have used it since beta... I even have a guide on how to do it on these very forums! https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/101034/custom-crosshair-reticle-for-pc-master-race/p1
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Would most likely fall under one of these 2 for the Battlefront 2 tos.
When you access or use an EA Service, you agree that you will not: Use or distribute unauthorized software programs or tools, such as "auto" software programs, "macro" software programs, "cheat utility" software program or applications, exploits, cheats, or any other game hacking, altering or cheating software or tool.
When you access or use an EA Service, you agree that you will not: Use exploits, cheats, undocumented features, design errors or problems in an EA Service.
Xim which I am guessing the person was using to use a mouse and keyboard on consoles would be a tool described in the first one.
Undocumented features would probably cover it as well.
For playstation tos.
You may not use, make, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware, including Non-Licensed Peripherals and cheat code software or devices that circumvent any security features or limitations included on any software or devices, in conjunction with PSN Services, or take or use any data from PSN Services to design, develop or update unauthorized software or hardware.
You may not cheat, exploit or use any bugs, glitches, vulnerabilities or unintentional game mechanics in PSN Services or any of its products or services to obtain an unfair advantage.
Xbox tos doesnt seem to have any that would cover it. So use a mouse and keyboard on Xbox all you want.
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Nice digging. TBH I think Xim being a straight emulation tool via hardware would not fit the literary description as it relates to software, and "tool" is fairly ambiguous (XB1). Playstation is a bit more specific I agree since it does include peripherals. Tend to agree on the playstation front for battlefront it could be deemed as cheating based on that. Interesting to see if anyone has ever been banned because of it, I would imagine not
The wording on the playstation tos makes things interesting. Because while Xim would be considered cheating since its not a licensed product.
Any number of the Hori ps4 mouse and contraption things wouldn't be since they are licensed.
An example
Like https://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Assault-Commander-Controller-Officially-Licensed/dp/B01JTOWU0K
I believe you can use any mouse with the Hori things
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Isn't M&K officially supported on PSN?
Only officially licensed mouse and keyboards technically.
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That post was in response to someone else. That feature seems pretty neat. I don't use a PC though
Blizzard bans Overwatch players who use m&k on console. DICE barely handles blatant hackers on PC. It's up got he developer whether to enforce it.
Imo, using m&k on console is cheap and slumming. I've been playing PC fps games since the 90s but moved over to console full-time about 15 years ago due to hackers and, at the time, always having to upgrade my PC. I still play PC occasionally and can say with 100% certainty that it's a huge advantage over a controller. I'm good on console, but on PC my accuracy and head shot accuracy percentage is much higher.
OP, I understand you want to play this game, but do it with a controller or go back to PC. Don't ruin it for other players.
I'll add - I've seen an increase on m&k users in HvV on ps4. It's pretty obvious on a small mode like that.
Running with Han and throwing his Det charge, and never stop shooting someone that is dodging and what have you, then exploding it air burst style for a very deadly combo. This move is simple on PC. It takes a lot of skill and very high sensitivity to pull this off on Console.
Reason number 1 why "PC is the master race" Skill cap is lower due to ease of use of K&M. Controllers take a lot more skill to use and do not have the perfect input like K&M.
I used to play on something like 28% sensitivity on console, I have moved this all the way up to 88% now. It took a bit of a learning curve, but once you start getting better at aiming, you now have a serious advantage over people with lower sensitivity. That is the skill you need to strive for. Not cheating your system to think it's using a controller when you're using a K&M.
PS4 EventHorizonOH
*pfft*... *scoff*
Be a real gamer... use the Power Glove... Its OP
He then messaged me and called me trash and told me to practice and get good.
Don't be this type of player and have to rely on M+K to get the drop on console players. It is not a true gauge of how goo you are if you need that edge. Want to use M+K? go back to PC and get good there.
Actually, yes.
Leaving aside the debate on at what level of framerate the eye stops gaining any advantage in perception (which varies from study to study and is very dependent on circumstance), it takes about 100 milliseconds for a visual stimulus to trigger a motor movement in the hand, since there's a finite speed limit on how fast an instruction from your brain can travel down the nerves to reach the muscles in your hand.
The time difference between two frames at 60Hz is 16 milliseconds. At 240Hz, it's 4.2 milliseconds. Therefore, by the time you can actually make your hand move, at either of these frame rates, many frames have passed and been registered by your brain before you can have any effect on the controller. This would suggest that having your framerate any faster than about 10Hz is a waste of time. And indeed, some studies measuring game performance at different framerates do suggest that no advantage is gained beyond about 13Hz. That's not to say you can't perceive briefer visual detail at a faster rate - rather that while you can see it, you can't make your body take advantage of it.
I got out of PC and on the console because everybody has the same equipment.
if this is going to become more common I hope games have lock out features on PlayStation so it can't be used
This is how you do it.
What about advantage over other players with controllers. Hmm, users with K&M have input lags, but user with controllers have aim assist, honestly I don't think there is a strong advantage.
I'm a PC player, so some things about console gaming I may not know.
Just my opinion.
To clarify, I play on XBox where K&M isn't supported unless you buy a third party device that is intended to emulate controller input but with the speed and precision of a mouse. Microsoft have mentioned that they're working on a device API to allow developers to decide if they want to support K&M and will probably try to disable such 'hacky' devices at the time that such an API rolls out.
As for myself, one of my great draws to console gaming is to level the playing field. I don't like cheaters and I like to know that I was beaten fair and square. People that try to get an unfair advantage are pathetic. What's the point of even 'competing' if you're not really going to try? Sounds pretty boring unless your only goal is to enrage other players and you don't actually care about the game.
edit: spelling
Lol figures a heavy would need all the help he can get. Borderline cheating for a class used by people who cant play shooters.
I'm not denying the advantage of KB+M. But my primary reason for using KB+M is simply because I'm more comfortable with it. I'd have still used KB+M even if it put me at a slight disadvantage, such as in SA or HSA. As far as I know, there are others doing the same and no one has been banned for it yet, at least not for SWBFII.
In any case, since I've openly confessed to using a KB+M, and assuming DICE reads their own forums, I should be able to know if I can still play the game on console in the coming weeks.
Either that or this debate would end once consoles officially support KB+M. If ever.
Btw thanks for the crosshair tip. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work on fullscreen mode for me, which is unfortunate.
Correct, it has to be used in windowed/maximized mode for it to overlay correctly.
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Hey @savemejebus I wanted to let you know that I use a mouse with the azeron gamepad on the PS4. I think it works nicely. It's way more ergonomic for my hands and that's why I do it. I don't like getting hand-cramps from playing with the controller.
If someone is using a masking device, I disagree with you. If you're not using a masking device, it's up to the developer to decide their policy. Since M&K is an advantageous input method, they're usually put in separate lobbies.
The difference between PC play comes from the hardware, input method, and increased FOV. Playing with M&K doesn't make you more skilled, it just gives you an advantageous input method. It's like bringing a firearm to a knife fight. Why should console players receive this "reality check?"
And now it's closed