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Is GA meant to be a heroes mode with troopers?

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Replies

  • JackTHorn wrote: »
    LaurenXIV wrote: »
    I dont think there was a particular reason to have a large part of the conversation be about the logical fallacy rather than the actual topic of the thread...
    Well said! Shall we get back to the topic?

    I saw a thread where several people were insisting GA was meant to be a heroes mode with troopers. That this is the core of the mode, having a bunch of heroes running around going against not that many more troopers. Thoughts?

    The ‘core’ of the mode is linear objectives, that’s it, everything else is extra.
  • GA and any other big objective gamemode should not include heroes in my opinion.
    The game is called Battlefront for a reason and not Herofront.
    I want the big battles like in Episode 2.
    But all i have to fight against to is heroes. Its boring getting instant killed by hereos. I dont see the fun in that at all.

    You will be still able to play your heroes in their respected modes like Heroes vs Villains etc.

    Episode 2? You mean where dozens of jedi fought and died? lol. The first battle of the clone wars where the jedi lead squads of troopers. Where the most amount of heroes were on the same battlefield??? I think you and I remember Episode 2 very differently.

    As long as troopers outnumber heroes its fine. Its not like we got 10 heroes followed by 2 troopers on each side...
  • IMHO the heroes are OP and the are too decisives especially in close maps. In GA the teams are of 20 players and a heroe like Dark Vader kill 10 players easly in one moment.

    Two possible solutions:

    1 - Max 2 heroes/team
    2 - Increase the number players/team

    ..

    1bfioawlu399.png
  • No keep the hero numbers the same. with the way they keep nerfing the heroes I think 4 each side on the final phase is great, unless you get rid of this stupid stamina system that was never even asked for by the majority, and turn that glitch back on that allowed for more than 2 dodges if timed perfectly
  • UhOhItsJus wrote: »
    No keep the hero numbers the same. with the way they keep nerfing the heroes I think 4 each side on the final phase is great, unless you get rid of this **** stamina system that was never even asked for by the majority, and turn that glitch back on that allowed for more than 2 dodges if timed perfectly

    Agreed. This is honestly kinda embarrassing tbh, with the exception of Palpatine, Vader, and Yoda The heroes are EASY to kill, and I'm talking 1 on 1 any lone trooper can easily bring a Hero down to 10% or less. This isn't bossk, Luke, or even Boba from bf2015 were talking about here. Heroes now take twice the amount of time to kill troopers and have around 40% less hp. Any further nerfs is just catering to noobs, like we saw with the new stamina system nobody asked for. 2 Heroes on each side is just fodder for infantry if were being honest here. Increase the limit so more people spend less time waiting in the menu to spawn.

    Both sides have access to these units, if your being destroyed by them, its because your feeding the enemy kills, plain and simple.
    This is how you teach scrubs:
    xnvLDB.gif
  • rollind24 wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    Oh
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    SWymsa wrote: »
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    Wrong

    The original battlefronts were infantry based games to set apart from the saturation of hero based star wars games at the time.
    Present time there are no hero star wars games out, so I get why they've focussed on hero's in these new battlefront games but that doesn't change the fact they've ruined the essence and purpose of what battlefront was.

    How is he wrong? He stated "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode...". This is 100% accurate.

    The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise isn't....THAT is what we are always talking about. Please get that....you keep forgetting.

    You are engaging in a straw man fallacy by adding new information which you then state is "wrong". HIS post says VERBATIM
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    You cannot take this to mean that he is stating "The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise" as that is NOT what he said. You are adding new information out of thin air and changing his statement to something else and then stating he is "wrong"... but you are attempting to refute a statement YOU created, not him... thus you are engaging in straw man fallacy.

    Dude, you just love to hear yourself talk and argue this perspective all of the time...I've seen you declare "straw man" arguments all the time....you just can't stay out of every single thread and you never change your mind.

    Ya, it is one of the most common forms of logical fallacies largely due to contributions such as yours above lol.

    So, he stated...
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    You then took his broad statement regarding the "Star Wars Franchise" and attempted to refute it by stating...
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    SWymsa wrote: »
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    Wrong

    The original battlefronts were infantry based games to set apart from the saturation of hero based star wars games at the time.
    Present time there are no hero star wars games out, so I get why they've focussed on hero's in these new battlefront games but that doesn't change the fact they've ruined the essence and purpose of what battlefront was.

    How is he wrong? He stated "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode...". This is 100% accurate.

    The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise isn't....THAT is what we are always talking about. Please get that....you keep forgetting.

    Who cares... you are attempting to argue against something he never said. You cannot state he is "wrong" for stating what he did based upon a refutation of something he never said in the first place. So, go ahead and show me where he said "The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise" (which is what you are attempting to refute) and I will happily concede that you are correct and you have not engaged in a giant straw man...

    And I don’t understand the point. “Star Wars movies care about the hero’s”, that’s great. As you say canon doesn’t matter in this game. Basing the game balance on movie canon doesn’t make for a good game.

    Stating the SW franchise focus is on hero’s has no bearing on the historical draw of the battlefront franchise.

    You are right, canon is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. My response was directed at the user accusing someone of being "wrong" for stating "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode..." which is a completely accurate & reasonable statement.

    Dude...you even quoted my reply of saying the BATTLEFRONT franchise wasn't all about heros.....because...and wait for it, I know you're slow....HE USED THAT AS AN ARGUMENT for this specific game series being Hero centric. Get...over...yourself. You're not the Lawyer of the forums and if you were you would be a bad one. You just love to fuss...you do it consistently in many threads.

    Point out for me where HE used that as an argument. He has a single post in this thread, and it states...
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    I am still waiting for you to quote his alleged post that contains the statement you claim to be arguing against lol.

    It’s whats being inferred. This isn’t a contract, people can read between the lines of what it meant.

    You cannot state someone is "wrong" by refuting something you think you can infer from reading between the lines of their factually accurate statement. Arguing against what you "think" someone means versus what they actually stated is a fools errand.

    Based on the context of the thread it isn’t a hard read unless they’re willing to admit what they said has no bearing on the subject and the statement is literally about Star Wars canon.

    It could be just as easily inferred that the post was merely meant to point out that the entire Star Wars franchise has historically been hero centric, and thus it is not surprising that they are bringing Battlefront in line with that vision... hence the reason it is pointless to attempt to call someone "wrong" based upon what you think you can infer by reading between the lines of their factually accurate statement.
    LaurenXIV wrote: »
    WodiQuix wrote: »
    LaurenXIV wrote: »
    The way I see things (or at least, how things should be):

    HvV - hero only mode, where people can level up and play as heroes whenever they like, and everyone relatively level in strength

    Starfighter Assault - starfighter only mode, where people can level up and play as starfighters whenever they like, and everyone relatively level in strength

    Blast/Strike - should be trooper only modes, where players can compete with everyone relatively level in strength (that isnt the case because of the existence of Enforcers, but thats that it should be, imo)

    Galactic Assault - should be a game mode mostly focused around troopers, but combining heroes, vehicles and reinforcements into a single game mode, so long as they dont overpower the game. Vehicles and heroes are for their specialized modes, and shouldnt be as abundant or as influential in the like... hybrid game mode. Unfortunately, that isnt the case - heroes very much overpower GA, and many people just want HvV with some added cannon fodder. I feel, and have always felt, that GA needs a reduction in the heroes active at once, down to maybe two as a maximum per team, and various balance changes to keep the player rotation high. Balance in a game is achieved by having players as equal in strength as possible, so the outcome can be decided by skill. Heroes and reinforcements put balance at risk immediately, by having higher health and damage numbers by the majority of other players. They can exist in a game with things being mostly balanced, by having a low number of them in comparison with other troopers and placing other limitations on them to be sure a single player cant change the outcome of a game including 39 other people. I dont think that is the case atm, unfortunately, and GA is becoming more hero focused rather than less :/

    As always, you bring up very good points, @LaurenXIV . I agree with you. Heroes do very much overpower GA. It's frustrating that what so often determines a match of GA is not the skilled play and tactics of the Troopers, but by how many Heroes are on the field spamming their abilities on small objectives against outclassed infantry. It is neither fun or balanced, and gets stale very quickly.

    Thank you! :) I agree with you agreeing with me :) Its also kinda bad that the only heroes you see on the dark side are Bossk and Palpatine most of the time. Theres no variety there.


    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    Ya, it is one of the most common forms of logical fallacies largely due to contributions such as yours above lol.

    In my experience, its also a common method that people use to dismiss an argument without ever having to confront it ;)

    Isnt it possible that the situation could have just been misread when they mentioned the Battlefront franchise? That they misunderstood the context of what had been said? I mean... I dont think there was a particular reason to have a large part of the conversation to be about the logical fallacy rather than the actual topic of the thread, but...

    Well if someone is changing the substance of a statement and then arguing against the modified position which was never asserted to begin with, there is no obligation to argue against that modified position.

    For example, if I change your statement from "In my experience, its also a common method that people use to dismiss an argument without ever having to confront it ;)" to "In my experience, its also a common method that people use to dismiss facts without ever having to confront them ;)" and then I retort that you are "wrong" to state that... so what? It was not your position to begin with... I have changed your statement and then attempted to refute the modified version... this is the textbook definition of the fallacy cited which played out in this very thread haha.


    As far as your second statement, yes, it is possible it was misread... which is exactly why I asked for clarification in my first reply
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    SWymsa wrote: »
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    Wrong

    The original battlefronts were infantry based games to set apart from the saturation of hero based star wars games at the time.
    Present time there are no hero star wars games out, so I get why they've focussed on hero's in these new battlefront games but that doesn't change the fact they've ruined the essence and purpose of what battlefront was.

    How is he wrong? He stated "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode...". This is 100% accurate.



  • IMHO the heroes are OP and the are too decisives especially in close maps. In GA the teams are of 20 players and a heroe like Dark Vader kill 10 players easly in one moment.

    Two possible solutions:

    1 - Max 2 heroes/team
    2 - Increase the number players/team

    ..

    Agreed.... both of these things would be great. Maybe 3 heroes per team, and 4 more troopers per side.
  • rollind24
    5579 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    Oh
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    SWymsa wrote: »
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    Wrong

    The original battlefronts were infantry based games to set apart from the saturation of hero based star wars games at the time.
    Present time there are no hero star wars games out, so I get why they've focussed on hero's in these new battlefront games but that doesn't change the fact they've ruined the essence and purpose of what battlefront was.

    How is he wrong? He stated "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode...". This is 100% accurate.

    The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise isn't....THAT is what we are always talking about. Please get that....you keep forgetting.

    You are engaging in a straw man fallacy by adding new information which you then state is "wrong". HIS post says VERBATIM
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    You cannot take this to mean that he is stating "The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise" as that is NOT what he said. You are adding new information out of thin air and changing his statement to something else and then stating he is "wrong"... but you are attempting to refute a statement YOU created, not him... thus you are engaging in straw man fallacy.

    Dude, you just love to hear yourself talk and argue this perspective all of the time...I've seen you declare "straw man" arguments all the time....you just can't stay out of every single thread and you never change your mind.

    Ya, it is one of the most common forms of logical fallacies largely due to contributions such as yours above lol.

    So, he stated...
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    You then took his broad statement regarding the "Star Wars Franchise" and attempted to refute it by stating...
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    SWymsa wrote: »
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    Wrong

    The original battlefronts were infantry based games to set apart from the saturation of hero based star wars games at the time.
    Present time there are no hero star wars games out, so I get why they've focussed on hero's in these new battlefront games but that doesn't change the fact they've ruined the essence and purpose of what battlefront was.

    How is he wrong? He stated "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode...". This is 100% accurate.

    The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise isn't....THAT is what we are always talking about. Please get that....you keep forgetting.

    Who cares... you are attempting to argue against something he never said. You cannot state he is "wrong" for stating what he did based upon a refutation of something he never said in the first place. So, go ahead and show me where he said "The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise" (which is what you are attempting to refute) and I will happily concede that you are correct and you have not engaged in a giant straw man...

    And I don’t understand the point. “Star Wars movies care about the hero’s”, that’s great. As you say canon doesn’t matter in this game. Basing the game balance on movie canon doesn’t make for a good game.

    Stating the SW franchise focus is on hero’s has no bearing on the historical draw of the battlefront franchise.

    You are right, canon is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. My response was directed at the user accusing someone of being "wrong" for stating "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode..." which is a completely accurate & reasonable statement.

    Dude...you even quoted my reply of saying the BATTLEFRONT franchise wasn't all about heros.....because...and wait for it, I know you're slow....HE USED THAT AS AN ARGUMENT for this specific game series being Hero centric. Get...over...yourself. You're not the Lawyer of the forums and if you were you would be a bad one. You just love to fuss...you do it consistently in many threads.

    Point out for me where HE used that as an argument. He has a single post in this thread, and it states...
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    I am still waiting for you to quote his alleged post that contains the statement you claim to be arguing against lol.

    It’s whats being inferred. This isn’t a contract, people can read between the lines of what it meant.

    You cannot state someone is "wrong" by refuting something you think you can infer from reading between the lines of their factually accurate statement. Arguing against what you "think" someone means versus what they actually stated is a fools errand.

    Based on the context of the thread it isn’t a hard read unless they’re willing to admit what they said has no bearing on the subject and the statement is literally about Star Wars canon.

    It could be just as easily inferred that the post was merely meant to point out that the entire Star Wars franchise has historically been hero centric, and thus it is not surprising that they are bringing Battlefront in line with that vision... hence the reason it is pointless to attempt to call someone "wrong" based upon what you think you can infer by reading between the lines of their factually accurate statement.
    LaurenXIV wrote: »
    WodiQuix wrote: »
    LaurenXIV wrote: »
    The way I see things (or at least, how things should be):

    HvV - hero only mode, where people can level up and play as heroes whenever they like, and everyone relatively level in strength

    Starfighter Assault - starfighter only mode, where people can level up and play as starfighters whenever they like, and everyone relatively level in strength

    Blast/Strike - should be trooper only modes, where players can compete with everyone relatively level in strength (that isnt the case because of the existence of Enforcers, but thats that it should be, imo)

    Galactic Assault - should be a game mode mostly focused around troopers, but combining heroes, vehicles and reinforcements into a single game mode, so long as they dont overpower the game. Vehicles and heroes are for their specialized modes, and shouldnt be as abundant or as influential in the like... hybrid game mode. Unfortunately, that isnt the case - heroes very much overpower GA, and many people just want HvV with some added cannon fodder. I feel, and have always felt, that GA needs a reduction in the heroes active at once, down to maybe two as a maximum per team, and various balance changes to keep the player rotation high. Balance in a game is achieved by having players as equal in strength as possible, so the outcome can be decided by skill. Heroes and reinforcements put balance at risk immediately, by having higher health and damage numbers by the majority of other players. They can exist in a game with things being mostly balanced, by having a low number of them in comparison with other troopers and placing other limitations on them to be sure a single player cant change the outcome of a game including 39 other people. I dont think that is the case atm, unfortunately, and GA is becoming more hero focused rather than less :/

    As always, you bring up very good points, @LaurenXIV . I agree with you. Heroes do very much overpower GA. It's frustrating that what so often determines a match of GA is not the skilled play and tactics of the Troopers, but by how many Heroes are on the field spamming their abilities on small objectives against outclassed infantry. It is neither fun or balanced, and gets stale very quickly.

    Thank you! :) I agree with you agreeing with me :) Its also kinda bad that the only heroes you see on the dark side are Bossk and Palpatine most of the time. Theres no variety there.


    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    Ya, it is one of the most common forms of logical fallacies largely due to contributions such as yours above lol.

    In my experience, its also a common method that people use to dismiss an argument without ever having to confront it ;)

    Isnt it possible that the situation could have just been misread when they mentioned the Battlefront franchise? That they misunderstood the context of what had been said? I mean... I dont think there was a particular reason to have a large part of the conversation to be about the logical fallacy rather than the actual topic of the thread, but...

    Well if someone is changing the substance of a statement and then arguing against the modified position which was never asserted to begin with, there is no obligation to argue against that modified position.

    For example, if I change your statement from "In my experience, its also a common method that people use to dismiss an argument without ever having to confront it ;)" to "In my experience, its also a common method that people use to dismiss facts without ever having to confront them ;)" and then I retort that you are "wrong" to state that... so what? It was not your position to begin with... I have changed your statement and then attempted to refute the modified version... this is the textbook definition of the fallacy cited which played out in this very thread haha.


    As far as your second statement, yes, it is possible it was misread... which is exactly why I asked for clarification in my first reply
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    SWymsa wrote: »
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    Wrong

    The original battlefronts were infantry based games to set apart from the saturation of hero based star wars games at the time.
    Present time there are no hero star wars games out, so I get why they've focussed on hero's in these new battlefront games but that doesn't change the fact they've ruined the essence and purpose of what battlefront was.

    How is he wrong? He stated "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode...". This is 100% accurate.



    George Lucas created Star Wars and was a fan many of the hero’s he created.
    #infantrylivesmatter
  • I think they had it right in bf15, that’s my opinion. Here’s hoping bf3, if we get one, is based off battlefront 15s game mechanic.
  • UhOhItsJus
    352 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    LaurenXIV wrote: »
    The heroes are EASY to kill, and I'm talking 1 on 1 any lone trooper can easily bring a Hero down to 10% or less.

    If you are able to get the drop on a blaster hero with vanguard, maybe. But for most troopers, in most circumstances, in most games, this isn't true, especially with saber heroes. Unless you play on PC, in which case thats kinda expected because aiming is easier. On PS4, it is definitely not the case

    Heroes now take twice the amount of time to kill troopers and have around 40% less hp.

    But there are now 8 of them on a battlefield at once, rather than 2. Collectively, heroes have been given a huge buff and have faarrrr more influence in a game of GA than in BF1. If there was only one with 40% higher HP and higher damage, I would be happy with that :)


    I am able to battle against heroes by myself and thats without vanguard. its because im skilled. and your ideal situation where "most troopers most of the time" cant take on heroes.......well thats the way its supposed to be, THEY ARE HEROES.

    heroes are nerfed compared to bf1. just take a look at the difference in the world record killstreaks between the two games....a saber swing was a one hit kill for Christ sake
  • t3hBar0n wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    Oh
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    SWymsa wrote: »
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    Wrong

    The original battlefronts were infantry based games to set apart from the saturation of hero based star wars games at the time.
    Present time there are no hero star wars games out, so I get why they've focussed on hero's in these new battlefront games but that doesn't change the fact they've ruined the essence and purpose of what battlefront was.

    How is he wrong? He stated "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode...". This is 100% accurate.

    The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise isn't....THAT is what we are always talking about. Please get that....you keep forgetting.

    You are engaging in a straw man fallacy by adding new information which you then state is "wrong". HIS post says VERBATIM
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    You cannot take this to mean that he is stating "The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise" as that is NOT what he said. You are adding new information out of thin air and changing his statement to something else and then stating he is "wrong"... but you are attempting to refute a statement YOU created, not him... thus you are engaging in straw man fallacy.

    Dude, you just love to hear yourself talk and argue this perspective all of the time...I've seen you declare "straw man" arguments all the time....you just can't stay out of every single thread and you never change your mind.

    Ya, it is one of the most common forms of logical fallacies largely due to contributions such as yours above lol.

    So, he stated...
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    You then took his broad statement regarding the "Star Wars Franchise" and attempted to refute it by stating...
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    SWymsa wrote: »
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    Wrong

    The original battlefronts were infantry based games to set apart from the saturation of hero based star wars games at the time.
    Present time there are no hero star wars games out, so I get why they've focussed on hero's in these new battlefront games but that doesn't change the fact they've ruined the essence and purpose of what battlefront was.

    How is he wrong? He stated "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode...". This is 100% accurate.

    The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise isn't....THAT is what we are always talking about. Please get that....you keep forgetting.

    Who cares... you are attempting to argue against something he never said. You cannot state he is "wrong" for stating what he did based upon a refutation of something he never said in the first place. So, go ahead and show me where he said "The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise" (which is what you are attempting to refute) and I will happily concede that you are correct and you have not engaged in a giant straw man...

    And I don’t understand the point. “Star Wars movies care about the hero’s”, that’s great. As you say canon doesn’t matter in this game. Basing the game balance on movie canon doesn’t make for a good game.

    Stating the SW franchise focus is on hero’s has no bearing on the historical draw of the battlefront franchise.

    You are right, canon is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. My response was directed at the user accusing someone of being "wrong" for stating "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode..." which is a completely accurate & reasonable statement.

    Dude...you even quoted my reply of saying the BATTLEFRONT franchise wasn't all about heros.....because...and wait for it, I know you're slow....HE USED THAT AS AN ARGUMENT for this specific game series being Hero centric. Get...over...yourself. You're not the Lawyer of the forums and if you were you would be a bad one. You just love to fuss...you do it consistently in many threads.

    Point out for me where HE used that as an argument. He has a single post in this thread, and it states...
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    I am still waiting for you to quote his alleged post that contains the statement you claim to be arguing against lol.

    It’s whats being inferred. This isn’t a contract, people can read between the lines of what it meant.

    You cannot state someone is "wrong" by refuting something you think you can infer from reading between the lines of their factually accurate statement. Arguing against what you "think" someone means versus what they actually stated is a fools errand.

    Based on the context of the thread it isn’t a hard read unless they’re willing to admit what they said has no bearing on the subject and the statement is literally about Star Wars canon.

    It could be just as easily inferred that the post was merely meant to point out that the entire Star Wars franchise has historically been hero centric, and thus it is not surprising that they are bringing Battlefront in line with that vision... hence the reason it is pointless to attempt to call someone "wrong" based upon what you think you can infer by reading between the lines of their factually accurate statement.
    LaurenXIV wrote: »
    WodiQuix wrote: »
    LaurenXIV wrote: »
    The way I see things (or at least, how things should be):

    HvV - hero only mode, where people can level up and play as heroes whenever they like, and everyone relatively level in strength

    Starfighter Assault - starfighter only mode, where people can level up and play as starfighters whenever they like, and everyone relatively level in strength

    Blast/Strike - should be trooper only modes, where players can compete with everyone relatively level in strength (that isnt the case because of the existence of Enforcers, but thats that it should be, imo)

    Galactic Assault - should be a game mode mostly focused around troopers, but combining heroes, vehicles and reinforcements into a single game mode, so long as they dont overpower the game. Vehicles and heroes are for their specialized modes, and shouldnt be as abundant or as influential in the like... hybrid game mode. Unfortunately, that isnt the case - heroes very much overpower GA, and many people just want HvV with some added cannon fodder. I feel, and have always felt, that GA needs a reduction in the heroes active at once, down to maybe two as a maximum per team, and various balance changes to keep the player rotation high. Balance in a game is achieved by having players as equal in strength as possible, so the outcome can be decided by skill. Heroes and reinforcements put balance at risk immediately, by having higher health and damage numbers by the majority of other players. They can exist in a game with things being mostly balanced, by having a low number of them in comparison with other troopers and placing other limitations on them to be sure a single player cant change the outcome of a game including 39 other people. I dont think that is the case atm, unfortunately, and GA is becoming more hero focused rather than less :/

    As always, you bring up very good points, @LaurenXIV . I agree with you. Heroes do very much overpower GA. It's frustrating that what so often determines a match of GA is not the skilled play and tactics of the Troopers, but by how many Heroes are on the field spamming their abilities on small objectives against outclassed infantry. It is neither fun or balanced, and gets stale very quickly.

    Thank you! :) I agree with you agreeing with me :) Its also kinda bad that the only heroes you see on the dark side are Bossk and Palpatine most of the time. Theres no variety there.


    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    Ya, it is one of the most common forms of logical fallacies largely due to contributions such as yours above lol.

    In my experience, its also a common method that people use to dismiss an argument without ever having to confront it ;)

    Isnt it possible that the situation could have just been misread when they mentioned the Battlefront franchise? That they misunderstood the context of what had been said? I mean... I dont think there was a particular reason to have a large part of the conversation to be about the logical fallacy rather than the actual topic of the thread, but...

    Well if someone is changing the substance of a statement and then arguing against the modified position which was never asserted to begin with, there is no obligation to argue against that modified position.

    For example, if I change your statement from "In my experience, its also a common method that people use to dismiss an argument without ever having to confront it ;)" to "In my experience, its also a common method that people use to dismiss facts without ever having to confront them ;)" and then I retort that you are "wrong" to state that... so what? It was not your position to begin with... I have changed your statement and then attempted to refute the modified version... this is the textbook definition of the fallacy cited which played out in this very thread haha.


    As far as your second statement, yes, it is possible it was misread... which is exactly why I asked for clarification in my first reply
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    SWymsa wrote: »
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    Wrong

    The original battlefronts were infantry based games to set apart from the saturation of hero based star wars games at the time.
    Present time there are no hero star wars games out, so I get why they've focussed on hero's in these new battlefront games but that doesn't change the fact they've ruined the essence and purpose of what battlefront was.

    How is he wrong? He stated "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode...". This is 100% accurate.
    Um, guys, what is this? I don't even... :scream:
    I referred to Star Wars' nature, not that of Battlefront. I know what Battlefront is, any suggestion otherwise is based on a flawed perception of reality. Don't overthink any "hidden intent" within that particular sentence. There isn't any.

    As @t3hBar0n said:
    It could be just as easily inferred that the post was merely meant to point out that the entire Star Wars franchise has historically been hero centric, and thus it is not surprising that they are bringing Battlefront in line with that vision...
    Simple as that.

    Leaving that mess behind (please), I suggest things might be easier if we try to refrain from confusing the "Battlefront" line of games with that of "Star Wars: Battlefront". Let's rather think of the latter as a branch or spin-off from the original franchise. Some parts of the "DNA" from the original is preserved, but it's its own experience, not a clone of the original with new exterior. Similar reasonings can be applied to the game as being a "Star Wars" game. In this regard, deviations are to be expected, and we can evaluate the game on its own terms - not by what it "ought to be" based on a strict interpretation of the nature of its parents. :smile:
  • t3hBar0n wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    Oh
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    SWymsa wrote: »
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    Wrong

    The original battlefronts were infantry based games to set apart from the saturation of hero based star wars games at the time.
    Present time there are no hero star wars games out, so I get why they've focussed on hero's in these new battlefront games but that doesn't change the fact they've ruined the essence and purpose of what battlefront was.

    How is he wrong? He stated "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode...". This is 100% accurate.

    The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise isn't....THAT is what we are always talking about. Please get that....you keep forgetting.

    You are engaging in a straw man fallacy by adding new information which you then state is "wrong". HIS post says VERBATIM
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    You cannot take this to mean that he is stating "The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise" as that is NOT what he said. You are adding new information out of thin air and changing his statement to something else and then stating he is "wrong"... but you are attempting to refute a statement YOU created, not him... thus you are engaging in straw man fallacy.

    Dude, you just love to hear yourself talk and argue this perspective all of the time...I've seen you declare "straw man" arguments all the time....you just can't stay out of every single thread and you never change your mind.

    Ya, it is one of the most common forms of logical fallacies largely due to contributions such as yours above lol.

    So, he stated...
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    You then took his broad statement regarding the "Star Wars Franchise" and attempted to refute it by stating...
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    SWymsa wrote: »
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    Wrong

    The original battlefronts were infantry based games to set apart from the saturation of hero based star wars games at the time.
    Present time there are no hero star wars games out, so I get why they've focussed on hero's in these new battlefront games but that doesn't change the fact they've ruined the essence and purpose of what battlefront was.

    How is he wrong? He stated "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode...". This is 100% accurate.

    The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise isn't....THAT is what we are always talking about. Please get that....you keep forgetting.

    Who cares... you are attempting to argue against something he never said. You cannot state he is "wrong" for stating what he did based upon a refutation of something he never said in the first place. So, go ahead and show me where he said "The Star Wars BATTLEFRONT franchise" (which is what you are attempting to refute) and I will happily concede that you are correct and you have not engaged in a giant straw man...

    And I don’t understand the point. “Star Wars movies care about the hero’s”, that’s great. As you say canon doesn’t matter in this game. Basing the game balance on movie canon doesn’t make for a good game.

    Stating the SW franchise focus is on hero’s has no bearing on the historical draw of the battlefront franchise.

    You are right, canon is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. My response was directed at the user accusing someone of being "wrong" for stating "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode..." which is a completely accurate & reasonable statement.

    Dude...you even quoted my reply of saying the BATTLEFRONT franchise wasn't all about heros.....because...and wait for it, I know you're slow....HE USED THAT AS AN ARGUMENT for this specific game series being Hero centric. Get...over...yourself. You're not the Lawyer of the forums and if you were you would be a bad one. You just love to fuss...you do it consistently in many threads.

    Point out for me where HE used that as an argument. He has a single post in this thread, and it states...
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    I am still waiting for you to quote his alleged post that contains the statement you claim to be arguing against lol.

    It’s whats being inferred. This isn’t a contract, people can read between the lines of what it meant.

    You cannot state someone is "wrong" by refuting something you think you can infer from reading between the lines of their factually accurate statement. Arguing against what you "think" someone means versus what they actually stated is a fools errand.

    Based on the context of the thread it isn’t a hard read unless they’re willing to admit what they said has no bearing on the subject and the statement is literally about Star Wars canon.

    It could be just as easily inferred that the post was merely meant to point out that the entire Star Wars franchise has historically been hero centric, and thus it is not surprising that they are bringing Battlefront in line with that vision... hence the reason it is pointless to attempt to call someone "wrong" based upon what you think you can infer by reading between the lines of their factually accurate statement.
    LaurenXIV wrote: »
    WodiQuix wrote: »
    LaurenXIV wrote: »
    The way I see things (or at least, how things should be):

    HvV - hero only mode, where people can level up and play as heroes whenever they like, and everyone relatively level in strength

    Starfighter Assault - starfighter only mode, where people can level up and play as starfighters whenever they like, and everyone relatively level in strength

    Blast/Strike - should be trooper only modes, where players can compete with everyone relatively level in strength (that isnt the case because of the existence of Enforcers, but thats that it should be, imo)

    Galactic Assault - should be a game mode mostly focused around troopers, but combining heroes, vehicles and reinforcements into a single game mode, so long as they dont overpower the game. Vehicles and heroes are for their specialized modes, and shouldnt be as abundant or as influential in the like... hybrid game mode. Unfortunately, that isnt the case - heroes very much overpower GA, and many people just want HvV with some added cannon fodder. I feel, and have always felt, that GA needs a reduction in the heroes active at once, down to maybe two as a maximum per team, and various balance changes to keep the player rotation high. Balance in a game is achieved by having players as equal in strength as possible, so the outcome can be decided by skill. Heroes and reinforcements put balance at risk immediately, by having higher health and damage numbers by the majority of other players. They can exist in a game with things being mostly balanced, by having a low number of them in comparison with other troopers and placing other limitations on them to be sure a single player cant change the outcome of a game including 39 other people. I dont think that is the case atm, unfortunately, and GA is becoming more hero focused rather than less :/

    As always, you bring up very good points, @LaurenXIV . I agree with you. Heroes do very much overpower GA. It's frustrating that what so often determines a match of GA is not the skilled play and tactics of the Troopers, but by how many Heroes are on the field spamming their abilities on small objectives against outclassed infantry. It is neither fun or balanced, and gets stale very quickly.

    Thank you! :) I agree with you agreeing with me :) Its also kinda bad that the only heroes you see on the dark side are Bossk and Palpatine most of the time. Theres no variety there.


    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    Ya, it is one of the most common forms of logical fallacies largely due to contributions such as yours above lol.

    In my experience, its also a common method that people use to dismiss an argument without ever having to confront it ;)

    Isnt it possible that the situation could have just been misread when they mentioned the Battlefront franchise? That they misunderstood the context of what had been said? I mean... I dont think there was a particular reason to have a large part of the conversation to be about the logical fallacy rather than the actual topic of the thread, but...

    Well if someone is changing the substance of a statement and then arguing against the modified position which was never asserted to begin with, there is no obligation to argue against that modified position.

    For example, if I change your statement from "In my experience, its also a common method that people use to dismiss an argument without ever having to confront it ;)" to "In my experience, its also a common method that people use to dismiss facts without ever having to confront them ;)" and then I retort that you are "wrong" to state that... so what? It was not your position to begin with... I have changed your statement and then attempted to refute the modified version... this is the textbook definition of the fallacy cited which played out in this very thread haha.


    As far as your second statement, yes, it is possible it was misread... which is exactly why I asked for clarification in my first reply
    t3hBar0n wrote: »
    SWymsa wrote: »
    The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode with troopers added for ambience purposes.

    Wrong

    The original battlefronts were infantry based games to set apart from the saturation of hero based star wars games at the time.
    Present time there are no hero star wars games out, so I get why they've focussed on hero's in these new battlefront games but that doesn't change the fact they've ruined the essence and purpose of what battlefront was.

    How is he wrong? He stated "The Star Wars franchise is basically Hero mode...". This is 100% accurate.
    Um, guys, what is this? I don't even... :scream:
    I referred to Star Wars' nature, not that of Battlefront. I know what Battlefront is, any suggestion otherwise is based on a flawed perception of reality. Don't overthink any "hidden intent" within that particular sentence. There isn't any.

    As @t3hBar0n said:
    It could be just as easily inferred that the post was merely meant to point out that the entire Star Wars franchise has historically been hero centric, and thus it is not surprising that they are bringing Battlefront in line with that vision...
    Simple as that.

    Leaving that mess behind (please), I suggest things might be easier if we try to refrain from confusing the "Battlefront" line of games with that of "Star Wars: Battlefront". Let's rather think of the latter as a branch or spin-off from the original franchise. Some parts of the "DNA" from the original is preserved, but it's its own experience, not a clone of the original with new exterior. Similar reasonings can be applied to the game as being a "Star Wars" game. In this regard, deviations are to be expected, and we can evaluate the game on its own terms - not by what it "ought to be" based on a strict interpretation of the nature of its parents. :smile:
    Eh. I need to proofread better on the phone. When contrasting Battlefronts with Star Wars: Battlefront, I of course meant the new vs. the old games of the game franchise. By "spin-off", I mean that after the series' reboot the new games are sufficiently dissimilar that it's better to think of them as something new entirely.
  • GA and any other big objective gamemode should not include heroes in my opinion.
    The game is called Battlefront for a reason and not Herofront.
    I want the big battles like in Episode 2.
    But all i have to fight against to is heroes. Its boring getting instant killed by hereos. I dont see the fun in that at all.

    You will be still able to play your heroes in their respected modes like Heroes vs Villains etc.

    Yes it is Battlefront, it isn’t Trooperfront either. There is Strike, Blast and Extraction for troopers just as you indicate HvV is for heroes.

    To me, GA is meant to be a mix between the both and it is my most preferred mode. I barely play the others as I find them boring in comparison. I really don’t see what the issue is with 4 heroes on each team later phases. That is still 80% troopers. If heroes are limited further then fewer people will get a chance to play a hero.
  • LaurenXIV wrote: »
    The heroes are EASY to kill, and I'm talking 1 on 1 any lone trooper can easily bring a Hero down to 10% or less.

    If you are able to get the drop on a blaster hero with vanguard, maybe. But for most troopers, in most circumstances, in most games, this isn't true, especially with saber heroes. Unless you play on PC, in which case thats kinda expected because aiming is easier. On PS4, it is definitely not the case

    Heroes now take twice the amount of time to kill troopers and have around 40% less hp.

    But there are now 8 of them on a battlefield at once, rather than 2. Collectively, heroes have been given a huge buff and have faarrrr more influence in a game of GA than in BF1. If there was only one with 40% higher HP and higher damage, I would be happy with that :)

    Any further nerfs is just catering to noobs,

    How so???

    like we saw with the new stamina system nobody asked for.

    People asked for it - infinitely blocking heroes were things people didnt like :)

    2 Heroes on each side is just fodder for infantry if were being honest here.

    I don't think so, heroes in phase 1 are known to do well (well, depending on the map - spawning as Luke on Kashyyyk wont give you hundreds of kills on Phase 1).

    Increase the limit so more people spend less time waiting in the menu to spawn

    If players only care about playing as heroes, theyre playing the wrong mode :P And balance in the game shouldnt be affected by people who only want to play as heroes. It doesnt make sense.

    Good points!
  • JackTHorn wrote: »
    I saw a thread where several people were insisting GA was meant to be a heroes mode with troopers. That this is the core of the mode, having 4-8 heroes running around going against 16 troopers. Thoughts?

    It sounds to me that many of those people have probably not played the other Star Wars Battlefront games before (like the predecessor BF2015) because they may have gotten way too used to the current game's mechanism, in this case when picking Hero characters to spawn in GA matches.

    To me, GA is about big war battles (mostly inspired by known cinematic battles seen from the films) that you join to take part off along with large numbers of other players to fight along side and work together for the objectives. Naturally, these big battles not only have regular troopers but also pretty much everything else, like special Units, Vehicles, and, of course, Heroes. Yes, Heroes are very valuable and important assets that can make noticeable differences, but that's not relevant enough for them to be considered the core for GA.

    Don't get me wrong though, I do approve the idea for a new system for BF2 to allow players to have easier access for Heroes with BP to spend, as a way to replace the flawed token system from the predecessor. My only problem here is that Dice have overdone this new system by making the Heroes too oftentimes influential and are very common sights for such very strong units. Yes, Heroes are suppose to be very powerful (not as powerful as in BF2015, but still very powerful), but is it also ok to have 8 of them active at once?

    I believe that GA needs to be a bit more balanced mostly for non-hero troopers by making the Heroes at least a bit less central for the matches' outcomes. For now my only suggestion is simply having the Hero's limits to 2 on all phases, including the last one, to see if it would help.
    PSN: FriedPizza773
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