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Devs, HvV Target System MUST be Eliminated ASAP

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Replies

  • Dash
    11748 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    ghawar18 wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    So here are my true thoughts on this:
    HvV, the mode that hero players want to be great, is awful. It's been awful for 10 months because of the target system and outrageously poor balancing.

    I find it pathetic and ridiculous that trooper skins are more important to the developers and to most of the community than fixing HvV.

    And this thread (which has now been posted three different times) continues to show that the players who actually care would much prefer to see the target system come to an end. Maybe it's time to start listening and fix HvV.



    I think that TDM will bring more problem than it will solve, it is certain, and I respect your opignon, that at the moment, HvV is a mode which is extremely frustrating of his players who exploit the slightest flaw of the system to play like cancer, but to make HvV a simple deathmatch will no longer favor the team system, only the heroes who have a great offensive power will be spammed and the defensive heroes will be left out. The solutions to settle this are simple:

    -add a timer for a change of target
    -corrupt bug "instinct of hunter" of boba feet
    -To ensure that a frozen hero can move from a certain scale of damage received

    and I agree with you on one last point, I find it really annoying that DICE is more preocupe to make skin and bring lean content that solve the problems, have more map, wait 1 year for 1 planet while we suffer every day is perpetual imbalance and is lot of bug / glitch, it is just spread the bugs / imbalances on more planets but it does not change anything.

    I disagree. Because if it becomes TDM, and there’s no longer a target to protect (because now it’s a killfest and your team works together or doesn’t), there’s really no point in running away, or being cheesy. It comes down to getting the kills.

    Offensive output/team offensive power or not, the more skilled team of players will win consistently. And that’s the point.

    There won’t be anymore “oh but he ran away that’s why they got our target first”. If someone runs, now it’ll be “Dude stop running you’re throwing the game for our team! Stay and fight with us”. Big difference.

    HVV as is, is Not “iconic battles between your favorite heroes/villains”. But if this change is added, then it will be Iconic & Memorable.
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  • Darth_Vapor3
    4933 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Hatchet_ wrote: »
    Just had this happen to me today. There's no way of getting to boba fett without falling to your death. This guy had the nerve to do this even though my team was gonna lose the match anyway. I am so sick of this..
    2wzef3b1vb7x.jpg
    TDM would be a terrible mess because the characters don’t balance against one another individually (and they never will).
    With nothing to encourage teamwork, players would be scattered across the map, easy pickings for Vader, Chewie, and the other characters who hold a significant advantage in 1v1s.

    Despite its glaring flaw (runaways), the current system at least encourages team play and staying together. The better fix, IMO, is to implement a TDM-style score of 50-100 points and make the target worth more points, with individual kills counting for one point. This still rewards good team play, discourages non-targets from recklessly throwing themselves at the other team, and diminishes the reward for running, as a good team of four will be able to capitalize on the 3v4 advantage if someone does decide to run.

    This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. every match its either run-and-hide stalemates or total gank fests. Implementing a TDM attack and defend hybrid would allow more freedom to go after the other heroes without compromising teamplay. It'll discourage targeted players from using exploits such as the image above because there would be no point in using them anymore, which could result in more comebacks from a losing team that manages to kill more targeted players. Running and hiding would also turn from a cheap and annoying tactic to a reasonable decision if it meant the difference between winning and losing a close match, but not guaranteeing anything.
    Outrider wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I’d rather a new TDM mode than eliminating the current version. I’m sure some people like the target system and it’d be kinda shady to take it away from them. It’s the same way I view GA, I don’t like the hero spam and wouldnt want to take away people’s fun that have paid for it but would gladly play a large scale trooper mode that was separate.

    ^ This. Adding a new mode and giving people options would be great. Taking away a mode in a game people paid for would upset anyone who enjoys it as is.

    While I get where you're coming from, this would only split the player base even more which mean finding games would take longer. And no one wants that. Or better yet, replace Hero Showdown.

    Adding a Hero Blast will not split any player base. That’s just a silly notion that is oft quoted because it sounds meaningful. But it isn’t.
    Post edited by Darth_Vapor3 on
  • I disagree. Because if it becomes TDM, and there’s no longer a target to protect (because now it’s a killfest and your team works together or doesn’t), there’s really no point in running away, or being cheesy. It comes down to getting the kills.

    Offensive output/team offensive power or not, the more skilled team of players will win consistently. And that’s the point.

    There won’t be anymore “oh but he ran away that’s why they got our target first”. If someone runs, now it’ll be “Dude stop running you’re throwing the game for our team! Stay and fight with us”. Big difference.

    HVV as is, is Not “iconic battles between your favorite heroes/villains”. But if this change is added, then it will be Iconic & Memorable.[/quote]


    this will only replace another, you would have constantly lando / Chewie / han Iden / Kylo / Boba in each game. the fact that you no longer need to defend and that attacking poses a problem, unlike in the current target system where killing an opponent who is not the target does not change anything, it will make a huge difference in itself TDM system because you will kill faster and more times and therefore favor your team
    0kzcwhxpqp73.gif
  • Dash
    11748 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    The better mode is the mode dictated by skill, not a niche targeting system. But that’s just my opinion. And if it’s TDM, they can raise the kill counter to get the win. These are simple changes in the right direction. Or a simple new mode to add to the game.
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  • With as lopsided as almost every match of HvV is, where not only does one team get dominated 10-0, but also in eliminations with the dominating team often times with 3 players with 40+ elims compared to 3 or 4 per person on the other team, I don't see how TDM would be much different than what we have now. As it is currently, I feel like the dominating team starts ignoring the target just to make the match last a little longer.

    TDM will just make for slightly longer pubstomps. That's it. It might stop runners, but to what end? Just feels like it's a really difficult mode to properly balance, as good players will always dominate. People say TDM will make it 'truly about skill', but will it? Take matches where someone runs out of the equation, how many of those matches where both teams stand and fight are really balanced? I've seen very few. I'm afraid HvV will always be stomping or being stomped 95% of the time, regardless of format.

    What they really need is the ability for private servers, so that those people who really want skilled matches against skilled players can get what they want.
  • mellowshipslinkyb
    1002 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Dash wrote: »
    It comes down to getting the kills.

    Exactly. And the kills will be gotten by Darth Vader, Chewbacca, and right on down the tier list. Meanwhile, players who “get stuck” with -removed- characters get crushed.
    Dash wrote: »
    The better mode is the mode dictated by skill...

    Sure. But the only “skill” involved in a TDM match between wildly unbalanced units is being quick enough to select the best unit first.

    With the existing lack of balance between units, HvV needs to be objective based. The current system isn’t perfect, but TDM would be worse.
    Post edited by F03hammer on
  • I am all for a TDM. I'm not even close to being decent, but I'd enjoy it just the same. Would be nice if the knocked out of combat thing was done away with too 😂 but that's being too greedy I suppose.
  • Devlin21
    8347 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Target system is trash. Pls remove.

    Tired of chasing people.
    keeboxdf4h4g.gif

  • The_Rookie
    3870 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Dash wrote: »
    It comes down to getting the kills.

    Exactly. And the kills will be gotten by Darth Vader, Chewbacca, and right on down the tier list. Meanwhile, players who “get stuck” with -removed- characters get crushed.
    Dash wrote: »
    The better mode is the mode dictated by skill...

    Sure. But the only “skill” involved in a TDM match between wildly unbalanced units is being quick enough to select the best unit first.

    With the existing lack of balance between units, HvV needs to be objective based. The current system isn’t perfect, but TDM would be worse.

    No. The better players will win. Plain and simple. The better players win in the current HvV and they would also win in TDM.
    Post edited by F03hammer on
  • mellowshipslinkyb
    1002 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    Dash wrote: »
    It comes down to getting the kills.

    Exactly. And the kills will be gotten by Darth Vader, Chewbacca, and right on down the tier list. Meanwhile, players who “get stuck” with -removed- characters get crushed.
    Dash wrote: »
    The better mode is the mode dictated by skill...

    Sure. But the only “skill” involved in a TDM match between wildly unbalanced units is being quick enough to select the best unit first.

    With the existing lack of balance between units, HvV needs to be objective based. The current system isn’t perfect, but TDM would be worse.

    The better players win in the current HvV...

    Then what was your complaint again?
    Post edited by F03hammer on
  • The_Rookie
    3870 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    Dash wrote: »
    It comes down to getting the kills.

    Exactly. And the kills will be gotten by Darth Vader, Chewbacca, and right on down the tier list. Meanwhile, players who “get stuck” with -removed- characters get crushed.
    Dash wrote: »
    The better mode is the mode dictated by skill...

    Sure. But the only “skill” involved in a TDM match between wildly unbalanced units is being quick enough to select the best unit first.

    With the existing lack of balance between units, HvV needs to be objective based. The current system isn’t perfect, but TDM would be worse.

    The better players win in the current HvV...

    Then what was your complaint again?

    Having to chase people for several minutes at a time or watching them exploit unreachable areas of maps...
    Post edited by F03hammer on
  • lerodemmy wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    Dash wrote: »
    It comes down to getting the kills.

    Exactly. And the kills will be gotten by Darth Vader, Chewbacca, and right on down the tier list. Meanwhile, players who “get stuck” with ****** characters get crushed.
    Dash wrote: »
    The better mode is the mode dictated by skill...

    Sure. But the only “skill” involved in a TDM match between wildly unbalanced units is being quick enough to select the best unit first.

    With the existing lack of balance between units, HvV needs to be objective based. The current system isn’t perfect, but TDM would be worse.

    The better players win in the current HvV...

    Then what was your complaint again?

    Having to chase people for several minutes at a time or watching them exploit unreachable areas of maps...

    .....And then having to kill their teammates over and over again until they finally whittle down your target and then having to kill their targets until they become the target again, and eventually end up with 50+ kills and a HvV game that lasted an hour......

    TDM all the way at this point.
    You guys are gonna make me rich......
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  • lerodemmy wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    Dash wrote: »
    It comes down to getting the kills.

    Exactly. And the kills will be gotten by Darth Vader, Chewbacca, and right on down the tier list. Meanwhile, players who “get stuck” with ****** characters get crushed.
    Dash wrote: »
    The better mode is the mode dictated by skill...

    Sure. But the only “skill” involved in a TDM match between wildly unbalanced units is being quick enough to select the best unit first.

    With the existing lack of balance between units, HvV needs to be objective based. The current system isn’t perfect, but TDM would be worse.

    The better players win in the current HvV...

    Then what was your complaint again?

    Having to chase people for several minutes at a time or watching them exploit unreachable areas of maps...

    Lol. I’ll just leave this right here.
    Billkwando wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Also, I’m sorry, but if we can have Jet Pack Cargo and people aren’t losing their minds trying to prevent it from being a game mode, why are so many people up in arms about adding Hero Blast.
    I just find the whole argument funny when we're talking about a bunch of super experienced players who most likely already win all the time, whining because they're mad that they can't win just a little bit more..... at the expense of players who are likely far less experienced, and most likely randoms at that.
  • Dash
    11748 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    Dash wrote: »
    It comes down to getting the kills.

    Exactly. And the kills will be gotten by Darth Vader, Chewbacca, and right on down the tier list. Meanwhile, players who “get stuck” with ****** characters get crushed.
    Dash wrote: »
    The better mode is the mode dictated by skill...

    Sure. But the only “skill” involved in a TDM match between wildly unbalanced units is being quick enough to select the best unit first.

    With the existing lack of balance between units, HvV needs to be objective based. The current system isn’t perfect, but TDM would be worse.

    The better players win in the current HvV...

    Then what was your complaint again?

    Having to chase people for several minutes at a time or watching them exploit unreachable areas of maps...

    Lol. I’ll just leave this right here.
    Billkwando wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Also, I’m sorry, but if we can have Jet Pack Cargo and people aren’t losing their minds trying to prevent it from being a game mode, why are so many people up in arms about adding Hero Blast.
    I just find the whole argument funny when we're talking about a bunch of super experienced players who most likely already win all the time, whining because they're mad that they can't win just a little bit more..... at the expense of players who are likely far less experienced, and most likely randoms at that.

    This is simpler than you try to jokingly make it.

    Runners are Not intended for that mode. It was never intended. They have yet to implement anything to prevent it. Which is why these posts exist now.

    Secondly, the fact remains when the skilled players dominate, and the runners “run”, the enemy team with the runner suffers because they experience such a profound beating from the better skilled players team. Now we have the rage quits, the empty lobbies, searching for more players.

    TDM HVV would alleviate that. Whether it be an alternative choice of game mode to que for, or a replacement of the target system. It will still benefit the players as a whole.

    Joking around debating player skill to those of us within this post with channels dedicated to Hero Play, and Game Play is a bad choice lol.

    There are minimum 7 players within this thread that CRUSH everyone else. Debate the topic, give input, but don’t try to debate our skill :lol:! Because we can back up our claims. :wink:
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  • Dash wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    Dash wrote: »
    It comes down to getting the kills.

    Exactly. And the kills will be gotten by Darth Vader, Chewbacca, and right on down the tier list. Meanwhile, players who “get stuck” with ****** characters get crushed.
    Dash wrote: »
    The better mode is the mode dictated by skill...

    Sure. But the only “skill” involved in a TDM match between wildly unbalanced units is being quick enough to select the best unit first.

    With the existing lack of balance between units, HvV needs to be objective based. The current system isn’t perfect, but TDM would be worse.

    The better players win in the current HvV...

    Then what was your complaint again?

    Having to chase people for several minutes at a time or watching them exploit unreachable areas of maps...

    Lol. I’ll just leave this right here.
    Billkwando wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Also, I’m sorry, but if we can have Jet Pack Cargo and people aren’t losing their minds trying to prevent it from being a game mode, why are so many people up in arms about adding Hero Blast.
    I just find the whole argument funny when we're talking about a bunch of super experienced players who most likely already win all the time, whining because they're mad that they can't win just a little bit more..... at the expense of players who are likely far less experienced, and most likely randoms at that.

    This is simpler than you try to jokingly make it.

    Runners are Not intended for that mode. It was never intended. They have yet to implement anything to prevent it. Which is why these posts exist now.

    Secondly, the fact remains when the skilled players dominate, and the runners “run”, the enemy team with the runner suffers because they experience such a profound beating from the better skilled players team. Now we have the rage quits, the empty lobbies, searching for more players.

    TDM HVV would alleviate that. Whether it be an alternative choice of game mode to que for, or a replacement of the target system. It will still benefit the players as a whole.

    Joking around debating player skill to those of us within this post with channels dedicated to Hero Play, and Game Play is a bad choice lol.

    There are minimum 7 players within this thread that CRUSH everyone else. Debate the topic, give input, but don’t try to debate our skill :lol:! Because we can back up our claims. :wink:

    I never said runners were intended. Had you read my initial posts, you’d have seen the line, “I’m all for doing something about runners...” followed by something to the effect of “TDM isn’t the answer.”

    “TDM HVV would alleviate that.” - Dash

    Conjecture. You have no statistical evidence to back this claim. Furthermore, altering the mode this drastically would open a Pandora’s box of issues that you can’t foresee.

    Not sure where you got the impression that that quote in any way demeans anyone’s skill. On the contrary, it fully acknowledges the skill of the players making the complaint, but calls them out for demanding the mode be more tailored to their play style than it is already.

    Here’s a thought: when you encounter a runner, concede the point. Go to the menu, select “restart” and take the option to run out of their hands. Players with your mad skillz can easily overcome a couple of points lost, and when you take the fun out of running/irritating, many of them will quit. It’s not like you have to worry about win/loss or K/D statistics.

    Be the adult in the room ;)
  • Dash
    11748 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Dash wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    Dash wrote: »
    It comes down to getting the kills.

    Exactly. And the kills will be gotten by Darth Vader, Chewbacca, and right on down the tier list. Meanwhile, players who “get stuck” with ****** characters get crushed.
    Dash wrote: »
    The better mode is the mode dictated by skill...

    Sure. But the only “skill” involved in a TDM match between wildly unbalanced units is being quick enough to select the best unit first.

    With the existing lack of balance between units, HvV needs to be objective based. The current system isn’t perfect, but TDM would be worse.

    The better players win in the current HvV...

    Then what was your complaint again?

    Having to chase people for several minutes at a time or watching them exploit unreachable areas of maps...

    Lol. I’ll just leave this right here.
    Billkwando wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Also, I’m sorry, but if we can have Jet Pack Cargo and people aren’t losing their minds trying to prevent it from being a game mode, why are so many people up in arms about adding Hero Blast.
    I just find the whole argument funny when we're talking about a bunch of super experienced players who most likely already win all the time, whining because they're mad that they can't win just a little bit more..... at the expense of players who are likely far less experienced, and most likely randoms at that.

    This is simpler than you try to jokingly make it.

    Runners are Not intended for that mode. It was never intended. They have yet to implement anything to prevent it. Which is why these posts exist now.

    Secondly, the fact remains when the skilled players dominate, and the runners “run”, the enemy team with the runner suffers because they experience such a profound beating from the better skilled players team. Now we have the rage quits, the empty lobbies, searching for more players.

    TDM HVV would alleviate that. Whether it be an alternative choice of game mode to que for, or a replacement of the target system. It will still benefit the players as a whole.

    Joking around debating player skill to those of us within this post with channels dedicated to Hero Play, and Game Play is a bad choice lol.

    There are minimum 7 players within this thread that CRUSH everyone else. Debate the topic, give input, but don’t try to debate our skill :lol:! Because we can back up our claims. :wink:

    I never said runners were intended. Had you read my initial posts, you’d have seen the line, “I’m all for doing something about runners...” followed by something to the effect of “TDM isn’t the answer.”

    “TDM HVV would alleviate that.” - Dash

    Conjecture. You have no statistical evidence to back this claim. Furthermore, altering the mode this drastically would open a Pandora’s box of issues that you can’t foresee.

    Not sure where you got the impression that that quote in any way demeans anyone. On the contrary, it fully acknowledges the skill of the players making the complaint, but calls them out for demanding the mode be more tailored to their play style than it is already.

    Here’s a thought: when you encounter a runner, concede the point. Go to the menu, select “restart” and take the option to run out of their hands. Players with your mad skillz can easily overcome a couple of points lost, and when you take the fun out of running/irritating, many of them will quit. It’s not like you have to worry about win/loss or K/D statistics.

    Be the adult in the room ;)

    “I am The Room”! :wink::naughty:
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  • KaPowaFie
    28 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Please honestly revert it to old battlefront 2015 HvV. Will make people more strategic. And get rid of running away and lame issues of new hvv target system. Have infantry in it as well. Trust me they do enough damage in this game to be worth doing stuff to a heroes health. And besides the old HvV I loved and had total fun with. I would rather have that then TDM or the new one they have still.
  • KaPowaFie wrote: »
    Please honestly revert it to old battlefront 2015 HvV. Will make people more strategic. And get rid of running away and lame issues of new hvv target system. Have infantry in it as well. Trust me they do enough damage in this game to be worth doing stuff to a heroes health. And besides the old HvV I loved and had total fun with. I would rather have that then TDM or the new one they have still.

    Infantry ruined bf15
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  • Add Hero Blast. There’s room for it. I mean it’s multiplayer 101. The most basic and rudimentary versus concept. It’ll likely curtail exploits, but it won’t srop real running. A solo Luke rounds the corner and faces Vader and Palpatine with Maul swooping in from behind them... That’s a run, and still a chase. When each and every death is a knock on your team’s tickets, believe there will still be running. Frankly, the current target system is barely more than TDM already. Without targets, you’ll be running around looking for the enemy, but at least inferior teams will have more of a breather to regroup back together. That is until experienced groups with mics figure out the most strategic locations on the maps to intercept and isolate the various spawn points, thereby preventing said regroup. This will develope rapidly once this mode is added. Hey I’m down with this actually. I look forward to chasing everyone, not just targets.
  • lerodemmy wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    Dash wrote: »
    It comes down to getting the kills.

    Exactly. And the kills will be gotten by Darth Vader, Chewbacca, and right on down the tier list. Meanwhile, players who “get stuck” with ****** characters get crushed.
    Dash wrote: »
    The better mode is the mode dictated by skill...

    Sure. But the only “skill” involved in a TDM match between wildly unbalanced units is being quick enough to select the best unit first.

    With the existing lack of balance between units, HvV needs to be objective based. The current system isn’t perfect, but TDM would be worse.

    The better players win in the current HvV...

    Then what was your complaint again?

    Having to chase people for several minutes at a time or watching them exploit unreachable areas of maps...

    Lol. I’ll just leave this right here.
    Billkwando wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Also, I’m sorry, but if we can have Jet Pack Cargo and people aren’t losing their minds trying to prevent it from being a game mode, why are so many people up in arms about adding Hero Blast.
    I just find the whole argument funny when we're talking about a bunch of super experienced players who most likely already win all the time, whining because they're mad that they can't win just a little bit more..... at the expense of players who are likely far less experienced, and most likely randoms at that.

    Well, we could always start abusing this target system ourselves and just farm kills for hours and hours without end.
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  • Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
  • Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
  • Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea
  • mellowshipslinkyb
    1002 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Hatchet_ wrote: »
    Just had this happen to me today. There's no way of getting to boba fett without falling to your death. This guy had the nerve to do this even though my team was gonna lose the match anyway. I am so sick of this..
    2wzef3b1vb7x.jpg
    TDM would be a terrible mess because the characters don’t balance against one another individually (and they never will).
    With nothing to encourage teamwork, players would be scattered across the map, easy pickings for Vader, Chewie, and the other characters who hold a significant advantage in 1v1s.

    Despite its glaring flaw (runaways), the current system at least encourages team play and staying together. The better fix, IMO, is to implement a TDM-style score of 50-100 points and make the target worth more points, with individual kills counting for one point. This still rewards good team play, discourages non-targets from recklessly throwing themselves at the other team, and diminishes the reward for running, as a good team of four will be able to capitalize on the 3v4 advantage if someone does decide to run.

    This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. every match its either run-and-hide stalemates or total gank fests. Implementing a TDM attack and defend hybrid would allow more freedom to go after the other heroes without compromising teamplay. It'll discourage targeted players from using exploits such as the image above because there would be no point in using them anymore, which could result in more comebacks from a losing team that manages to kill more targeted players. Running and hiding would also turn from a cheap and annoying tactic to a reasonable decision if it meant the difference between winning and losing a close match, but not guaranteeing anything.
    Outrider wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I’d rather a new TDM mode than eliminating the current version. I’m sure some people like the target system and it’d be kinda shady to take it away from them. It’s the same way I view GA, I don’t like the hero spam and wouldnt want to take away people’s fun that have paid for it but would gladly play a large scale trooper mode that was separate.

    ^ This. Adding a new mode and giving people options would be great. Taking away a mode in a game people paid for would upset anyone who enjoys it as is.

    While I get where you're coming from, this would only split the player base even more which mean finding games would take longer. And no one wants that. Or better yet, replace Hero Showdown.

    Adding a Hero Blast will not split any player base. That’s just a silly notion that is oft quoted because it sounds meaningful. But it isn’t.

    Exactly. Hero Showdown did not split the Hero-only player base, and I can find a match in either mode almost instantaneously at all times. Adding Extraction did not split the Blast/Strike player base, as another example.
    I never said runners were intended. Had you read my initial posts, you’d have seen the line, “I’m all for doing something about runners...” followed by something to the effect of “TDM isn’t the answer.”

    “TDM HVV would alleviate that.” - Dash

    Conjecture. You have no statistical evidence to back this claim. Furthermore, altering the mode this drastically would open a Pandora’s box of issues that you can’t foresee.

    Not sure where you got the impression that that quote in any way demeans anyone. On the contrary, it fully acknowledges the skill of the players making the complaint, but calls them out for demanding the mode be more tailored to their play style than it is already.

    Here’s a thought: when you encounter a runner, concede the point. Go to the menu, select “restart” and take the option to run out of their hands. Players with your mad skillz can easily overcome a couple of points lost, and when you take the fun out of running/irritating, many of them will quit. It’s not like you have to worry about win/loss or K/D statistics.

    Be the adult in the room ;)

    He may not have any statistical data to back up TDM alleviating all issues with the target system specifically for the Hero-only version, but what issues are there currently with the Blast game mode? None, to my recollection. No hiding, no running, just team play (or not), and the more skilled shooters, defenders, attackers, are winning each and every game without exploit. Further, we also have statistical data re: the increasing frequency with which targets run/hide/exploit in the current mode since launch. The more time map glitcher YouTube channels have to explore a given map or update, the more map glitches are being exploited by a broader audience of those willing to exploit and cheat to win. Regardless of target-timers or TDM styles of play, we must all come to a consensus that immediate changes need to be implemented to the current system.

    Moreover, I argue that conceding the point is further positive reinforcement for their exploiting behavior, which in my opinion, is "giving puppy treat for bad behavior." Conceding the point provides instantaneous relief to your problem, but simultaneously reinforces a persistence in bad behavior for the long term. Defeating every running target every single time reinforces the point that the player must find alternative tactics to win - something not every team is capable of doing, particularly when map glitches are exploited, and characters such as Boba Fett are the cluprits.

    In essence, the current target system and game itself already rewards cowardly tactics, so we don't need to further support these actions by conceding the point and giving a ticket away. In my opinion, this type of though represents the opposite of an adult decision since it is predicated on the instantaneous relief or solution to a problem, rather than an effort for real and sustained change of outcome.

    The facts are that, and quite literally, when you elect to run as a target, you are rewarded for not playing the intended game mode of "Attack or defend the target" which is broadcasted to every player at the beginning of every match, change of target, or upon your death & respawn. The intended gameplay could not be any clearer. Yet, your team's probability of scoring a ticket is increased substantially by your ability to survive. In the case of skill vs. skill, how good are you at balancing attack with defense - a game mode we all desire to play. In the case of skill vs. running/hiding/map exploitation, and cheating.... who wants to play this type of game, truly?

    A comparison to a standard TDM is inaccurate, as all players in Blast have the option to choose from units of equal offensive power, and earn more powerful units through gameplay, which can be subsequently lost. This is not the case in HvV, where the units vary dramatically in offensive power and can be retained by the player who initially selected them for the entire match.

    I never suggested conceding the point as a permanent solution. I was simply offering a more mature method of alleviating the frustration caused by runners for the time being.

    As I’ve said repeatedly throughout this thread, I am one of the players who agrees that some method of discouraging runners should be implemented. Whatever that method is, however, must be objective based. TDM with unbalanced units is not the answer.
  • Dash
    11748 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Hatchet_ wrote: »
    Just had this happen to me today. There's no way of getting to boba fett without falling to your death. This guy had the nerve to do this even though my team was gonna lose the match anyway. I am so sick of this..
    2wzef3b1vb7x.jpg
    TDM would be a terrible mess because the characters don’t balance against one another individually (and they never will).
    With nothing to encourage teamwork, players would be scattered across the map, easy pickings for Vader, Chewie, and the other characters who hold a significant advantage in 1v1s.

    Despite its glaring flaw (runaways), the current system at least encourages team play and staying together. The better fix, IMO, is to implement a TDM-style score of 50-100 points and make the target worth more points, with individual kills counting for one point. This still rewards good team play, discourages non-targets from recklessly throwing themselves at the other team, and diminishes the reward for running, as a good team of four will be able to capitalize on the 3v4 advantage if someone does decide to run.

    This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. every match its either run-and-hide stalemates or total gank fests. Implementing a TDM attack and defend hybrid would allow more freedom to go after the other heroes without compromising teamplay. It'll discourage targeted players from using exploits such as the image above because there would be no point in using them anymore, which could result in more comebacks from a losing team that manages to kill more targeted players. Running and hiding would also turn from a cheap and annoying tactic to a reasonable decision if it meant the difference between winning and losing a close match, but not guaranteeing anything.
    Outrider wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I’d rather a new TDM mode than eliminating the current version. I’m sure some people like the target system and it’d be kinda shady to take it away from them. It’s the same way I view GA, I don’t like the hero spam and wouldnt want to take away people’s fun that have paid for it but would gladly play a large scale trooper mode that was separate.

    ^ This. Adding a new mode and giving people options would be great. Taking away a mode in a game people paid for would upset anyone who enjoys it as is.

    While I get where you're coming from, this would only split the player base even more which mean finding games would take longer. And no one wants that. Or better yet, replace Hero Showdown.

    Adding a Hero Blast will not split any player base. That’s just a silly notion that is oft quoted because it sounds meaningful. But it isn’t.

    Exactly. Hero Showdown did not split the Hero-only player base, and I can find a match in either mode almost instantaneously at all times. Adding Extraction did not split the Blast/Strike player base, as another example.
    I never said runners were intended. Had you read my initial posts, you’d have seen the line, “I’m all for doing something about runners...” followed by something to the effect of “TDM isn’t the answer.”

    “TDM HVV would alleviate that.” - Dash

    Conjecture. You have no statistical evidence to back this claim. Furthermore, altering the mode this drastically would open a Pandora’s box of issues that you can’t foresee.

    Not sure where you got the impression that that quote in any way demeans anyone. On the contrary, it fully acknowledges the skill of the players making the complaint, but calls them out for demanding the mode be more tailored to their play style than it is already.

    Here’s a thought: when you encounter a runner, concede the point. Go to the menu, select “restart” and take the option to run out of their hands. Players with your mad skillz can easily overcome a couple of points lost, and when you take the fun out of running/irritating, many of them will quit. It’s not like you have to worry about win/loss or K/D statistics.

    Be the adult in the room ;)

    He may not have any statistical data to back up TDM alleviating all issues with the target system specifically for the Hero-only version, but what issues are there currently with the Blast game mode? None, to my recollection. No hiding, no running, just team play (or not), and the more skilled shooters, defenders, attackers, are winning each and every game without exploit. Further, we also have statistical data re: the increasing frequency with which targets run/hide/exploit in the current mode since launch. The more time map glitcher YouTube channels have to explore a given map or update, the more map glitches are being exploited by a broader audience of those willing to exploit and cheat to win. Regardless of target-timers or TDM styles of play, we must all come to a consensus that immediate changes need to be implemented to the current system.

    Moreover, I argue that conceding the point is further positive reinforcement for their exploiting behavior, which in my opinion, is "giving puppy treat for bad behavior." Conceding the point provides instantaneous relief to your problem, but simultaneously reinforces a persistence in bad behavior for the long term. Defeating every running target every single time reinforces the point that the player must find alternative tactics to win - something not every team is capable of doing, particularly when map glitches are exploited, and characters such as Boba Fett are the cluprits.

    In essence, the current target system and game itself already rewards cowardly tactics, so we don't need to further support these actions by conceding the point and giving a ticket away. In my opinion, this type of though represents the opposite of an adult decision since it is predicated on the instantaneous relief or solution to a problem, rather than an effort for real and sustained change of outcome.

    The facts are that, and quite literally, when you elect to run as a target, you are rewarded for not playing the intended game mode of "Attack or defend the target" which is broadcasted to every player at the beginning of every match, change of target, or upon your death & respawn. The intended gameplay could not be any clearer. Yet, your team's probability of scoring a ticket is increased substantially by your ability to survive. In the case of skill vs. skill, how good are you at balancing attack with defense - a game mode we all desire to play. In the case of skill vs. running/hiding/map exploitation, and cheating.... who wants to play this type of game, truly?



    +1.

    @mellowshipslinkyb , if you want statistical live experience/data about “Skill”, I’ll give you an 18 minute Montage of it:



    Even better, watch every video on the channel. Speaks for itself.

    Skill isn’t in question, Good players win regardless. The issue is Targets Running and wasting everyone’s time abusing the system as it is.
    Origin ID: "NWG_Dash"

    Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyUQ3FFqM-TQd-3xtZmHOGQ?view_as=subscriber
    Link to all my Guides here in Tips & Tricks: https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/113241/custom-class-hero-loadouts-builds-revisited-pt-2-6-14-2018#latest

    "When you ask for trouble, you should not be surprised when it finds you". - Plo Koon

    Licensed REALTOR®
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  • I'd be cool with an added Hero Team Deathmatch and/or King of the Hill mode. Probably still play HvV more though.
  • mellowshipslinkyb
    1002 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
    Raices wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea

    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.
    Dash wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Hatchet_ wrote: »
    Just had this happen to me today. There's no way of getting to boba fett without falling to your death. This guy had the nerve to do this even though my team was gonna lose the match anyway. I am so sick of this..
    2wzef3b1vb7x.jpg
    TDM would be a terrible mess because the characters don’t balance against one another individually (and they never will).
    With nothing to encourage teamwork, players would be scattered across the map, easy pickings for Vader, Chewie, and the other characters who hold a significant advantage in 1v1s.

    Despite its glaring flaw (runaways), the current system at least encourages team play and staying together. The better fix, IMO, is to implement a TDM-style score of 50-100 points and make the target worth more points, with individual kills counting for one point. This still rewards good team play, discourages non-targets from recklessly throwing themselves at the other team, and diminishes the reward for running, as a good team of four will be able to capitalize on the 3v4 advantage if someone does decide to run.

    This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. every match its either run-and-hide stalemates or total gank fests. Implementing a TDM attack and defend hybrid would allow more freedom to go after the other heroes without compromising teamplay. It'll discourage targeted players from using exploits such as the image above because there would be no point in using them anymore, which could result in more comebacks from a losing team that manages to kill more targeted players. Running and hiding would also turn from a cheap and annoying tactic to a reasonable decision if it meant the difference between winning and losing a close match, but not guaranteeing anything.
    Outrider wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I’d rather a new TDM mode than eliminating the current version. I’m sure some people like the target system and it’d be kinda shady to take it away from them. It’s the same way I view GA, I don’t like the hero spam and wouldnt want to take away people’s fun that have paid for it but would gladly play a large scale trooper mode that was separate.

    ^ This. Adding a new mode and giving people options would be great. Taking away a mode in a game people paid for would upset anyone who enjoys it as is.

    While I get where you're coming from, this would only split the player base even more which mean finding games would take longer. And no one wants that. Or better yet, replace Hero Showdown.

    Adding a Hero Blast will not split any player base. That’s just a silly notion that is oft quoted because it sounds meaningful. But it isn’t.

    Exactly. Hero Showdown did not split the Hero-only player base, and I can find a match in either mode almost instantaneously at all times. Adding Extraction did not split the Blast/Strike player base, as another example.
    I never said runners were intended. Had you read my initial posts, you’d have seen the line, “I’m all for doing something about runners...” followed by something to the effect of “TDM isn’t the answer.”

    “TDM HVV would alleviate that.” - Dash

    Conjecture. You have no statistical evidence to back this claim. Furthermore, altering the mode this drastically would open a Pandora’s box of issues that you can’t foresee.

    Not sure where you got the impression that that quote in any way demeans anyone. On the contrary, it fully acknowledges the skill of the players making the complaint, but calls them out for demanding the mode be more tailored to their play style than it is already.

    Here’s a thought: when you encounter a runner, concede the point. Go to the menu, select “restart” and take the option to run out of their hands. Players with your mad skillz can easily overcome a couple of points lost, and when you take the fun out of running/irritating, many of them will quit. It’s not like you have to worry about win/loss or K/D statistics.

    Be the adult in the room ;)

    He may not have any statistical data to back up TDM alleviating all issues with the target system specifically for the Hero-only version, but what issues are there currently with the Blast game mode? None, to my recollection. No hiding, no running, just team play (or not), and the more skilled shooters, defenders, attackers, are winning each and every game without exploit. Further, we also have statistical data re: the increasing frequency with which targets run/hide/exploit in the current mode since launch. The more time map glitcher YouTube channels have to explore a given map or update, the more map glitches are being exploited by a broader audience of those willing to exploit and cheat to win. Regardless of target-timers or TDM styles of play, we must all come to a consensus that immediate changes need to be implemented to the current system.

    Moreover, I argue that conceding the point is further positive reinforcement for their exploiting behavior, which in my opinion, is "giving puppy treat for bad behavior." Conceding the point provides instantaneous relief to your problem, but simultaneously reinforces a persistence in bad behavior for the long term. Defeating every running target every single time reinforces the point that the player must find alternative tactics to win - something not every team is capable of doing, particularly when map glitches are exploited, and characters such as Boba Fett are the cluprits.

    In essence, the current target system and game itself already rewards cowardly tactics, so we don't need to further support these actions by conceding the point and giving a ticket away. In my opinion, this type of though represents the opposite of an adult decision since it is predicated on the instantaneous relief or solution to a problem, rather than an effort for real and sustained change of outcome.

    The facts are that, and quite literally, when you elect to run as a target, you are rewarded for not playing the intended game mode of "Attack or defend the target" which is broadcasted to every player at the beginning of every match, change of target, or upon your death & respawn. The intended gameplay could not be any clearer. Yet, your team's probability of scoring a ticket is increased substantially by your ability to survive. In the case of skill vs. skill, how good are you at balancing attack with defense - a game mode we all desire to play. In the case of skill vs. running/hiding/map exploitation, and cheating.... who wants to play this type of game, truly?



    +1.

    @mellowshipslinkyb , if you want statistical live experience/data about “Skill”, I’ll give you an 18 minute Montage of it:



    Even better, watch every video on the channel. Speaks for itself.

    Skill isn’t in question, Good players win regardless. The issue is Targets Running and wasting everyone’s time abusing the system as it is.

    Wait, what? I’ve already acknowledged you guys are good. Apparently you didn’t read the post that you quoted, and/or are just shamelessly promoting your YouTube channel.

    I’ll pass on the vids, thanks. I’m a player, not a spectator ;)
  • Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
    Raices wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea

    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.
    Dash wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Hatchet_ wrote: »
    Just had this happen to me today. There's no way of getting to boba fett without falling to your death. This guy had the nerve to do this even though my team was gonna lose the match anyway. I am so sick of this..
    2wzef3b1vb7x.jpg
    TDM would be a terrible mess because the characters don’t balance against one another individually (and they never will).
    With nothing to encourage teamwork, players would be scattered across the map, easy pickings for Vader, Chewie, and the other characters who hold a significant advantage in 1v1s.

    Despite its glaring flaw (runaways), the current system at least encourages team play and staying together. The better fix, IMO, is to implement a TDM-style score of 50-100 points and make the target worth more points, with individual kills counting for one point. This still rewards good team play, discourages non-targets from recklessly throwing themselves at the other team, and diminishes the reward for running, as a good team of four will be able to capitalize on the 3v4 advantage if someone does decide to run.

    This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. every match its either run-and-hide stalemates or total gank fests. Implementing a TDM attack and defend hybrid would allow more freedom to go after the other heroes without compromising teamplay. It'll discourage targeted players from using exploits such as the image above because there would be no point in using them anymore, which could result in more comebacks from a losing team that manages to kill more targeted players. Running and hiding would also turn from a cheap and annoying tactic to a reasonable decision if it meant the difference between winning and losing a close match, but not guaranteeing anything.
    Outrider wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I’d rather a new TDM mode than eliminating the current version. I’m sure some people like the target system and it’d be kinda shady to take it away from them. It’s the same way I view GA, I don’t like the hero spam and wouldnt want to take away people’s fun that have paid for it but would gladly play a large scale trooper mode that was separate.

    ^ This. Adding a new mode and giving people options would be great. Taking away a mode in a game people paid for would upset anyone who enjoys it as is.

    While I get where you're coming from, this would only split the player base even more which mean finding games would take longer. And no one wants that. Or better yet, replace Hero Showdown.

    Adding a Hero Blast will not split any player base. That’s just a silly notion that is oft quoted because it sounds meaningful. But it isn’t.

    Exactly. Hero Showdown did not split the Hero-only player base, and I can find a match in either mode almost instantaneously at all times. Adding Extraction did not split the Blast/Strike player base, as another example.
    I never said runners were intended. Had you read my initial posts, you’d have seen the line, “I’m all for doing something about runners...” followed by something to the effect of “TDM isn’t the answer.”

    “TDM HVV would alleviate that.” - Dash

    Conjecture. You have no statistical evidence to back this claim. Furthermore, altering the mode this drastically would open a Pandora’s box of issues that you can’t foresee.

    Not sure where you got the impression that that quote in any way demeans anyone. On the contrary, it fully acknowledges the skill of the players making the complaint, but calls them out for demanding the mode be more tailored to their play style than it is already.

    Here’s a thought: when you encounter a runner, concede the point. Go to the menu, select “restart” and take the option to run out of their hands. Players with your mad skillz can easily overcome a couple of points lost, and when you take the fun out of running/irritating, many of them will quit. It’s not like you have to worry about win/loss or K/D statistics.

    Be the adult in the room ;)

    He may not have any statistical data to back up TDM alleviating all issues with the target system specifically for the Hero-only version, but what issues are there currently with the Blast game mode? None, to my recollection. No hiding, no running, just team play (or not), and the more skilled shooters, defenders, attackers, are winning each and every game without exploit. Further, we also have statistical data re: the increasing frequency with which targets run/hide/exploit in the current mode since launch. The more time map glitcher YouTube channels have to explore a given map or update, the more map glitches are being exploited by a broader audience of those willing to exploit and cheat to win. Regardless of target-timers or TDM styles of play, we must all come to a consensus that immediate changes need to be implemented to the current system.

    Moreover, I argue that conceding the point is further positive reinforcement for their exploiting behavior, which in my opinion, is "giving puppy treat for bad behavior." Conceding the point provides instantaneous relief to your problem, but simultaneously reinforces a persistence in bad behavior for the long term. Defeating every running target every single time reinforces the point that the player must find alternative tactics to win - something not every team is capable of doing, particularly when map glitches are exploited, and characters such as Boba Fett are the cluprits.

    In essence, the current target system and game itself already rewards cowardly tactics, so we don't need to further support these actions by conceding the point and giving a ticket away. In my opinion, this type of though represents the opposite of an adult decision since it is predicated on the instantaneous relief or solution to a problem, rather than an effort for real and sustained change of outcome.

    The facts are that, and quite literally, when you elect to run as a target, you are rewarded for not playing the intended game mode of "Attack or defend the target" which is broadcasted to every player at the beginning of every match, change of target, or upon your death & respawn. The intended gameplay could not be any clearer. Yet, your team's probability of scoring a ticket is increased substantially by your ability to survive. In the case of skill vs. skill, how good are you at balancing attack with defense - a game mode we all desire to play. In the case of skill vs. running/hiding/map exploitation, and cheating.... who wants to play this type of game, truly?



    +1.

    @mellowshipslinkyb , if you want statistical live experience/data about “Skill”, I’ll give you an 18 minute Montage of it:



    Even better, watch every video on the channel. Speaks for itself.

    Skill isn’t in question, Good players win regardless. The issue is Targets Running and wasting everyone’s time abusing the system as it is.

    Wait, what? I’ve already acknowledged you guys are good. Apparently you didn’t read the post that you quoted, and/or are just shamelessly promoting your YouTube channel.

    But your need to make the conversation about something it never was, and the sense of entitlement you feel based on your skill level, are duly noted.

    I’ll pass on the vids, thanks. I’m a player, not a spectator ;)

    You can leave me out of the YouTube promotion discussion, thanks! I also do not proclaim to be good, so I don't belong in that conversation, either.

    My point to you, and why I quoted your earlier response, was in conjecture with your conjecture about conceding the point in positively reinforcing the concept of reward running targets.

    Also, there is nothing wrong with watching others play a game, so if you mean to downplay or demean "spectators," I would disagree with you on that as well.
    In 1977, a single shot rang out at the Cantina.... No first, no second. Han shot - end of statement.

    PSN: Han_Spinel
    Youtube: Han Spinel
    Twitter: @Han_Spinel
    The Unofficial Star Wars Battlefront Campaign Companion
  • Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
    Raices wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea

    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.

    Ok. These are valid points.
  • Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
    Raices wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea

    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.

    Ok. These are valid points.

    To be clear, I'm not trying to take away from fun ideas; but all of the objective-based Hero-only game mode concepts are founded on the assumption that Heroes and Villains are equally balanced with power/defense/maneuverability etc. They simply are not balanced, and I venture to guess that they will never be more balanced than they are today. The reason TDM has so much appeal to me, is because it is a simple concept that lets me pit my skill level against other players. Assuming equal skill level, the Darkside will prevail in most all cases, but I'm fine with putting skill up against skill regardless of the outcome.

    I just want to have some good battles without chasing for 30+min in some cases, or watching someone blatantly cheat the system by hiding in a map glitch accessible by only a select few. If the objective is simply to kill an opponent, I truly believe the game will become the current blast mode, but with Heroes, which sounds pretty fun to me even if the Darkside remains stronger.
    In 1977, a single shot rang out at the Cantina.... No first, no second. Han shot - end of statement.

    PSN: Han_Spinel
    Youtube: Han Spinel
    Twitter: @Han_Spinel
    The Unofficial Star Wars Battlefront Campaign Companion
  • Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
    Raices wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea

    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.
    Dash wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Hatchet_ wrote: »
    Just had this happen to me today. There's no way of getting to boba fett without falling to your death. This guy had the nerve to do this even though my team was gonna lose the match anyway. I am so sick of this..
    2wzef3b1vb7x.jpg
    TDM would be a terrible mess because the characters don’t balance against one another individually (and they never will).
    With nothing to encourage teamwork, players would be scattered across the map, easy pickings for Vader, Chewie, and the other characters who hold a significant advantage in 1v1s.

    Despite its glaring flaw (runaways), the current system at least encourages team play and staying together. The better fix, IMO, is to implement a TDM-style score of 50-100 points and make the target worth more points, with individual kills counting for one point. This still rewards good team play, discourages non-targets from recklessly throwing themselves at the other team, and diminishes the reward for running, as a good team of four will be able to capitalize on the 3v4 advantage if someone does decide to run.

    This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. every match its either run-and-hide stalemates or total gank fests. Implementing a TDM attack and defend hybrid would allow more freedom to go after the other heroes without compromising teamplay. It'll discourage targeted players from using exploits such as the image above because there would be no point in using them anymore, which could result in more comebacks from a losing team that manages to kill more targeted players. Running and hiding would also turn from a cheap and annoying tactic to a reasonable decision if it meant the difference between winning and losing a close match, but not guaranteeing anything.
    Outrider wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I’d rather a new TDM mode than eliminating the current version. I’m sure some people like the target system and it’d be kinda shady to take it away from them. It’s the same way I view GA, I don’t like the hero spam and wouldnt want to take away people’s fun that have paid for it but would gladly play a large scale trooper mode that was separate.

    ^ This. Adding a new mode and giving people options would be great. Taking away a mode in a game people paid for would upset anyone who enjoys it as is.

    While I get where you're coming from, this would only split the player base even more which mean finding games would take longer. And no one wants that. Or better yet, replace Hero Showdown.

    Adding a Hero Blast will not split any player base. That’s just a silly notion that is oft quoted because it sounds meaningful. But it isn’t.

    Exactly. Hero Showdown did not split the Hero-only player base, and I can find a match in either mode almost instantaneously at all times. Adding Extraction did not split the Blast/Strike player base, as another example.
    I never said runners were intended. Had you read my initial posts, you’d have seen the line, “I’m all for doing something about runners...” followed by something to the effect of “TDM isn’t the answer.”

    “TDM HVV would alleviate that.” - Dash

    Conjecture. You have no statistical evidence to back this claim. Furthermore, altering the mode this drastically would open a Pandora’s box of issues that you can’t foresee.

    Not sure where you got the impression that that quote in any way demeans anyone. On the contrary, it fully acknowledges the skill of the players making the complaint, but calls them out for demanding the mode be more tailored to their play style than it is already.

    Here’s a thought: when you encounter a runner, concede the point. Go to the menu, select “restart” and take the option to run out of their hands. Players with your mad skillz can easily overcome a couple of points lost, and when you take the fun out of running/irritating, many of them will quit. It’s not like you have to worry about win/loss or K/D statistics.

    Be the adult in the room ;)

    He may not have any statistical data to back up TDM alleviating all issues with the target system specifically for the Hero-only version, but what issues are there currently with the Blast game mode? None, to my recollection. No hiding, no running, just team play (or not), and the more skilled shooters, defenders, attackers, are winning each and every game without exploit. Further, we also have statistical data re: the increasing frequency with which targets run/hide/exploit in the current mode since launch. The more time map glitcher YouTube channels have to explore a given map or update, the more map glitches are being exploited by a broader audience of those willing to exploit and cheat to win. Regardless of target-timers or TDM styles of play, we must all come to a consensus that immediate changes need to be implemented to the current system.

    Moreover, I argue that conceding the point is further positive reinforcement for their exploiting behavior, which in my opinion, is "giving puppy treat for bad behavior." Conceding the point provides instantaneous relief to your problem, but simultaneously reinforces a persistence in bad behavior for the long term. Defeating every running target every single time reinforces the point that the player must find alternative tactics to win - something not every team is capable of doing, particularly when map glitches are exploited, and characters such as Boba Fett are the cluprits.

    In essence, the current target system and game itself already rewards cowardly tactics, so we don't need to further support these actions by conceding the point and giving a ticket away. In my opinion, this type of though represents the opposite of an adult decision since it is predicated on the instantaneous relief or solution to a problem, rather than an effort for real and sustained change of outcome.

    The facts are that, and quite literally, when you elect to run as a target, you are rewarded for not playing the intended game mode of "Attack or defend the target" which is broadcasted to every player at the beginning of every match, change of target, or upon your death & respawn. The intended gameplay could not be any clearer. Yet, your team's probability of scoring a ticket is increased substantially by your ability to survive. In the case of skill vs. skill, how good are you at balancing attack with defense - a game mode we all desire to play. In the case of skill vs. running/hiding/map exploitation, and cheating.... who wants to play this type of game, truly?



    +1.

    @mellowshipslinkyb , if you want statistical live experience/data about “Skill”, I’ll give you an 18 minute Montage of it:



    Even better, watch every video on the channel. Speaks for itself.

    Skill isn’t in question, Good players win regardless. The issue is Targets Running and wasting everyone’s time abusing the system as it is.

    Wait, what? I’ve already acknowledged you guys are good. Apparently you didn’t read the post that you quoted, and/or are just shamelessly promoting your YouTube channel.

    But your need to make the conversation about something it never was, and the sense of entitlement you feel based on your skill level, are duly noted.

    I’ll pass on the vids, thanks. I’m a player, not a spectator ;)

    You can leave me out of the YouTube promotion discussion, thanks! I also do not proclaim to be good, so I don't belong in that conversation, either.

    My point to you, and why I quoted your earlier response, was in conjecture with your conjecture about conceding the point in positively reinforcing the concept of reward running targets.

    Also, there is nothing wrong with watching others play a game, so if you mean to downplay or demean "spectators," I would disagree with you on that as well.

    I actually responded to your earlier post quoting mine with some inoffensivey stated counterpoints, but it got sent up for review. If it doesn’t show, I’ll rewrite it later.

    I’m not criticizing people who do watch those videos. But in 18 min I can earn 900+ credits and potential bonuses for daily challenges. My preference is playing, not spectating. To each, his own...
  • Bumping for relevance
    [+3748 posts]
  • Relmets wrote: »
    Bumping for relevance

    Good idea. Nice profile pic.
  • Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
    Raices wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea

    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.
    Dash wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Hatchet_ wrote: »
    Just had this happen to me today. There's no way of getting to boba fett without falling to your death. This guy had the nerve to do this even though my team was gonna lose the match anyway. I am so sick of this..
    2wzef3b1vb7x.jpg
    TDM would be a terrible mess because the characters don’t balance against one another individually (and they never will).
    With nothing to encourage teamwork, players would be scattered across the map, easy pickings for Vader, Chewie, and the other characters who hold a significant advantage in 1v1s.

    Despite its glaring flaw (runaways), the current system at least encourages team play and staying together. The better fix, IMO, is to implement a TDM-style score of 50-100 points and make the target worth more points, with individual kills counting for one point. This still rewards good team play, discourages non-targets from recklessly throwing themselves at the other team, and diminishes the reward for running, as a good team of four will be able to capitalize on the 3v4 advantage if someone does decide to run.

    This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. every match its either run-and-hide stalemates or total gank fests. Implementing a TDM attack and defend hybrid would allow more freedom to go after the other heroes without compromising teamplay. It'll discourage targeted players from using exploits such as the image above because there would be no point in using them anymore, which could result in more comebacks from a losing team that manages to kill more targeted players. Running and hiding would also turn from a cheap and annoying tactic to a reasonable decision if it meant the difference between winning and losing a close match, but not guaranteeing anything.
    Outrider wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I’d rather a new TDM mode than eliminating the current version. I’m sure some people like the target system and it’d be kinda shady to take it away from them. It’s the same way I view GA, I don’t like the hero spam and wouldnt want to take away people’s fun that have paid for it but would gladly play a large scale trooper mode that was separate.

    ^ This. Adding a new mode and giving people options would be great. Taking away a mode in a game people paid for would upset anyone who enjoys it as is.

    While I get where you're coming from, this would only split the player base even more which mean finding games would take longer. And no one wants that. Or better yet, replace Hero Showdown.

    Adding a Hero Blast will not split any player base. That’s just a silly notion that is oft quoted because it sounds meaningful. But it isn’t.

    Exactly. Hero Showdown did not split the Hero-only player base, and I can find a match in either mode almost instantaneously at all times. Adding Extraction did not split the Blast/Strike player base, as another example.
    I never said runners were intended. Had you read my initial posts, you’d have seen the line, “I’m all for doing something about runners...” followed by something to the effect of “TDM isn’t the answer.”

    “TDM HVV would alleviate that.” - Dash

    Conjecture. You have no statistical evidence to back this claim. Furthermore, altering the mode this drastically would open a Pandora’s box of issues that you can’t foresee.

    Not sure where you got the impression that that quote in any way demeans anyone. On the contrary, it fully acknowledges the skill of the players making the complaint, but calls them out for demanding the mode be more tailored to their play style than it is already.

    Here’s a thought: when you encounter a runner, concede the point. Go to the menu, select “restart” and take the option to run out of their hands. Players with your mad skillz can easily overcome a couple of points lost, and when you take the fun out of running/irritating, many of them will quit. It’s not like you have to worry about win/loss or K/D statistics.

    Be the adult in the room ;)

    He may not have any statistical data to back up TDM alleviating all issues with the target system specifically for the Hero-only version, but what issues are there currently with the Blast game mode? None, to my recollection. No hiding, no running, just team play (or not), and the more skilled shooters, defenders, attackers, are winning each and every game without exploit. Further, we also have statistical data re: the increasing frequency with which targets run/hide/exploit in the current mode since launch. The more time map glitcher YouTube channels have to explore a given map or update, the more map glitches are being exploited by a broader audience of those willing to exploit and cheat to win. Regardless of target-timers or TDM styles of play, we must all come to a consensus that immediate changes need to be implemented to the current system.

    Moreover, I argue that conceding the point is further positive reinforcement for their exploiting behavior, which in my opinion, is "giving puppy treat for bad behavior." Conceding the point provides instantaneous relief to your problem, but simultaneously reinforces a persistence in bad behavior for the long term. Defeating every running target every single time reinforces the point that the player must find alternative tactics to win - something not every team is capable of doing, particularly when map glitches are exploited, and characters such as Boba Fett are the cluprits.

    In essence, the current target system and game itself already rewards cowardly tactics, so we don't need to further support these actions by conceding the point and giving a ticket away. In my opinion, this type of though represents the opposite of an adult decision since it is predicated on the instantaneous relief or solution to a problem, rather than an effort for real and sustained change of outcome.

    The facts are that, and quite literally, when you elect to run as a target, you are rewarded for not playing the intended game mode of "Attack or defend the target" which is broadcasted to every player at the beginning of every match, change of target, or upon your death & respawn. The intended gameplay could not be any clearer. Yet, your team's probability of scoring a ticket is increased substantially by your ability to survive. In the case of skill vs. skill, how good are you at balancing attack with defense - a game mode we all desire to play. In the case of skill vs. running/hiding/map exploitation, and cheating.... who wants to play this type of game, truly?



    +1.

    @mellowshipslinkyb , if you want statistical live experience/data about “Skill”, I’ll give you an 18 minute Montage of it:



    Even better, watch every video on the channel. Speaks for itself.

    Skill isn’t in question, Good players win regardless. The issue is Targets Running and wasting everyone’s time abusing the system as it is.

    Wait, what? I’ve already acknowledged you guys are good. Apparently you didn’t read the post that you quoted, and/or are just shamelessly promoting your YouTube channel.

    But your need to make the conversation about something it never was, and the sense of entitlement you feel based on your skill level, are duly noted.

    I’ll pass on the vids, thanks. I’m a player, not a spectator ;)

    You can leave me out of the YouTube promotion discussion, thanks! I also do not proclaim to be good, so I don't belong in that conversation, either.

    My point to you, and why I quoted your earlier response, was in conjecture with your conjecture about conceding the point in positively reinforcing the concept of reward running targets.

    Also, there is nothing wrong with watching others play a game, so if you mean to downplay or demean "spectators," I would disagree with you on that as well.

    I actually responded to your earlier post quoting mine with some inoffensivey stated counterpoints, but it got sent up for review. If it doesn’t show, I’ll rewrite it later.

    I’m not criticizing people who do watch those videos. But in 18 min I can earn 900+ credits and potential bonuses for daily challenges. My preference is playing, not spectating. To each, his own...

    OK thanks for clarifying, and also for presenting counterpoints "inoffesivey" lol whenever they finally show up.

    I too would rather play than watch an 18min video, but mentioned what I did to (potentially) protect the innocent that enjoy spectating!
    In 1977, a single shot rang out at the Cantina.... No first, no second. Han shot - end of statement.

    PSN: Han_Spinel
    Youtube: Han Spinel
    Twitter: @Han_Spinel
    The Unofficial Star Wars Battlefront Campaign Companion
  • Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
    Raices wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea

    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.

    Ok. These are valid points.

    To be clear, I'm not trying to take away from fun ideas; but all of the objective-based Hero-only game mode concepts are founded on the assumption that Heroes and Villains are equally balanced with power/defense/maneuverability etc. They simply are not balanced, and I venture to guess that they will never be more balanced than they are today. The reason TDM has so much appeal to me, is because it is a simple concept that lets me pit my skill level against other players. Assuming equal skill level, the Darkside will prevail in most all cases, but I'm fine with putting skill up against skill regardless of the outcome.

    I just want to have some good battles without chasing for 30+min in some cases, or watching someone blatantly cheat the system by hiding in a map glitch accessible by only a select few. If the objective is simply to kill an opponent, I truly believe the game will become the current blast mode, but with Heroes, which sounds pretty fun to me even if the Darkside remains stronger.

    Well we have that. Hero Showdown. No exploits, no running. Pure skill vs skill. TDM, while it will remedy exploits, will do nothing to stave off running. I believe it will foster more quitting mid match. Nevertheless, what we have is flawed and TDM deserves its place in the mode lineup.
  • @Han_Spinel

    My response is up. Fifth post below yours.
  • Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
    Raices wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea

    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.

    Ok. These are valid points.

    To be clear, I'm not trying to take away from fun ideas; but all of the objective-based Hero-only game mode concepts are founded on the assumption that Heroes and Villains are equally balanced with power/defense/maneuverability etc. They simply are not balanced, and I venture to guess that they will never be more balanced than they are today. The reason TDM has so much appeal to me, is because it is a simple concept that lets me pit my skill level against other players. Assuming equal skill level, the Darkside will prevail in most all cases, but I'm fine with putting skill up against skill regardless of the outcome.

    I just want to have some good battles without chasing for 30+min in some cases, or watching someone blatantly cheat the system by hiding in a map glitch accessible by only a select few. If the objective is simply to kill an opponent, I truly believe the game will become the current blast mode, but with Heroes, which sounds pretty fun to me even if the Darkside remains stronger.

    Well we have that. Hero Showdown. No exploits, no running. Pure skill vs skill. TDM, while it will remedy exploits, will do nothing to stave off running. I believe it will foster more quitting mid match. Nevertheless, what we have is flawed and TDM deserves its place in the mode lineup.

    Can you elaborate as to why you think others will run in Hero TDM, or why it will not stave off running? I don't find any players running in the current Blast game mode. I find that players switch to more defensive strategies when low on tickets, but they can't win by simply surviving, they still must balance their attack efforts to win/regain control of the ticket lead. I truly believe the same can be said for Hero TDM, and don't find any evidence to suggest otherwise.
    In 1977, a single shot rang out at the Cantina.... No first, no second. Han shot - end of statement.

    PSN: Han_Spinel
    Youtube: Han Spinel
    Twitter: @Han_Spinel
    The Unofficial Star Wars Battlefront Campaign Companion
  • @Han_Spinel

    My response is up. Fifth post below yours.

    Got it, thanks!
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Hatchet_ wrote: »
    Just had this happen to me today. There's no way of getting to boba fett without falling to your death. This guy had the nerve to do this even though my team was gonna lose the match anyway. I am so sick of this..
    2wzef3b1vb7x.jpg
    TDM would be a terrible mess because the characters don’t balance against one another individually (and they never will).
    With nothing to encourage teamwork, players would be scattered across the map, easy pickings for Vader, Chewie, and the other characters who hold a significant advantage in 1v1s.

    Despite its glaring flaw (runaways), the current system at least encourages team play and staying together. The better fix, IMO, is to implement a TDM-style score of 50-100 points and make the target worth more points, with individual kills counting for one point. This still rewards good team play, discourages non-targets from recklessly throwing themselves at the other team, and diminishes the reward for running, as a good team of four will be able to capitalize on the 3v4 advantage if someone does decide to run.

    This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. every match its either run-and-hide stalemates or total gank fests. Implementing a TDM attack and defend hybrid would allow more freedom to go after the other heroes without compromising teamplay. It'll discourage targeted players from using exploits such as the image above because there would be no point in using them anymore, which could result in more comebacks from a losing team that manages to kill more targeted players. Running and hiding would also turn from a cheap and annoying tactic to a reasonable decision if it meant the difference between winning and losing a close match, but not guaranteeing anything.
    Outrider wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I’d rather a new TDM mode than eliminating the current version. I’m sure some people like the target system and it’d be kinda shady to take it away from them. It’s the same way I view GA, I don’t like the hero spam and wouldnt want to take away people’s fun that have paid for it but would gladly play a large scale trooper mode that was separate.

    ^ This. Adding a new mode and giving people options would be great. Taking away a mode in a game people paid for would upset anyone who enjoys it as is.

    While I get where you're coming from, this would only split the player base even more which mean finding games would take longer. And no one wants that. Or better yet, replace Hero Showdown.

    Adding a Hero Blast will not split any player base. That’s just a silly notion that is oft quoted because it sounds meaningful. But it isn’t.

    Exactly. Hero Showdown did not split the Hero-only player base, and I can find a match in either mode almost instantaneously at all times. Adding Extraction did not split the Blast/Strike player base, as another example.
    I never said runners were intended. Had you read my initial posts, you’d have seen the line, “I’m all for doing something about runners...” followed by something to the effect of “TDM isn’t the answer.”

    “TDM HVV would alleviate that.” - Dash

    Conjecture. You have no statistical evidence to back this claim. Furthermore, altering the mode this drastically would open a Pandora’s box of issues that you can’t foresee.

    Not sure where you got the impression that that quote in any way demeans anyone. On the contrary, it fully acknowledges the skill of the players making the complaint, but calls them out for demanding the mode be more tailored to their play style than it is already.

    Here’s a thought: when you encounter a runner, concede the point. Go to the menu, select “restart” and take the option to run out of their hands. Players with your mad skillz can easily overcome a couple of points lost, and when you take the fun out of running/irritating, many of them will quit. It’s not like you have to worry about win/loss or K/D statistics.

    Be the adult in the room ;)

    He may not have any statistical data to back up TDM alleviating all issues with the target system specifically for the Hero-only version, but what issues are there currently with the Blast game mode? None, to my recollection. No hiding, no running, just team play (or not), and the more skilled shooters, defenders, attackers, are winning each and every game without exploit. Further, we also have statistical data re: the increasing frequency with which targets run/hide/exploit in the current mode since launch. The more time map glitcher YouTube channels have to explore a given map or update, the more map glitches are being exploited by a broader audience of those willing to exploit and cheat to win. Regardless of target-timers or TDM styles of play, we must all come to a consensus that immediate changes need to be implemented to the current system.

    Moreover, I argue that conceding the point is further positive reinforcement for their exploiting behavior, which in my opinion, is "giving puppy treat for bad behavior." Conceding the point provides instantaneous relief to your problem, but simultaneously reinforces a persistence in bad behavior for the long term. Defeating every running target every single time reinforces the point that the player must find alternative tactics to win - something not every team is capable of doing, particularly when map glitches are exploited, and characters such as Boba Fett are the cluprits.

    In essence, the current target system and game itself already rewards cowardly tactics, so we don't need to further support these actions by conceding the point and giving a ticket away. In my opinion, this type of though represents the opposite of an adult decision since it is predicated on the instantaneous relief or solution to a problem, rather than an effort for real and sustained change of outcome.

    The facts are that, and quite literally, when you elect to run as a target, you are rewarded for not playing the intended game mode of "Attack or defend the target" which is broadcasted to every player at the beginning of every match, change of target, or upon your death & respawn. The intended gameplay could not be any clearer. Yet, your team's probability of scoring a ticket is increased substantially by your ability to survive. In the case of skill vs. skill, how good are you at balancing attack with defense - a game mode we all desire to play. In the case of skill vs. running/hiding/map exploitation, and cheating.... who wants to play this type of game, truly?

    A comparison to a standard TDM is inaccurate, as all players in Blast have the option to choose from units of equal offensive power, and earn more powerful units through gameplay, which can be subsequently lost. This is not the case in HvV, where the units vary dramatically in offensive power and can be retained by the player who initially selected them for the entire match.

    I never suggested conceding the point as a permanent solution. I was simply offering a more mature method of alleviating the frustration caused by runners for the time being.

    As I’ve said repeatedly throughout this thread, I am one of the players who agrees that some method of discouraging runners should be implemented. Whatever that method is, however, must be objective based. TDM with unbalanced units is not the answer.

    I am happy to hear that you don't believe conceding the point is a permanent solution.

    I just mentioned this a few minutes ago, but I do acknowledge that Heroes vs. Villains is unbalanced from the onset, but I maintain that I would prefer the unbalanced Lighstide vs. Darkisde Blast mode over any of the objective-based modes I have thus far seen/read about. The reason being is that on a kill-per-kill basis, I believe the Lightside stands the best chance (though clearly outmatched in offensive/defensive powers) relative to all other objective-based scenarios. The Darkside simply has too many, and long lasting, CC abilities to take over/defend against any objective, and also an unparalleled ability to outflank strong holds (Boba Fett) or immediately scatter stationary objectives (dioxis), not to mention their unparalleled ability to run away (Boba Fett, Palpatine, Maul).

    Anyhow, I am also happy to have a civilized disagreement. I do believe TDM is the best bet for the most simple Heroes vs. Villains contest, albeit the Darkside is stronger.
    In 1977, a single shot rang out at the Cantina.... No first, no second. Han shot - end of statement.

    PSN: Han_Spinel
    Youtube: Han Spinel
    Twitter: @Han_Spinel
    The Unofficial Star Wars Battlefront Campaign Companion
  • lerodemmy wrote: »
    Relmets wrote: »
    Bumping for relevance

    Good idea. Nice profile pic.

    pr54dqxgdz0p.gif
    [+3748 posts]
  • Devlin21 wrote: »
    KaPowaFie wrote: »
    Please honestly revert it to old battlefront 2015 HvV. Will make people more strategic. And get rid of running away and lame issues of new hvv target system. Have infantry in it as well. Trust me they do enough damage in this game to be worth doing stuff to a heroes health. And besides the old HvV I loved and had total fun with. I would rather have that then TDM or the new one they have still.

    Infantry ruined bf15

    Nahhh man lol. You gotta lighten up have some fun. Chasing running minions around was awesome. 👍👍dont lie. You miss running around with luke killing them. Lol.
  • Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
    Raices wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea

    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.

    Ok. These are valid points.

    To be clear, I'm not trying to take away from fun ideas; but all of the objective-based Hero-only game mode concepts are founded on the assumption that Heroes and Villains are equally balanced with power/defense/maneuverability etc. They simply are not balanced, and I venture to guess that they will never be more balanced than they are today. The reason TDM has so much appeal to me, is because it is a simple concept that lets me pit my skill level against other players. Assuming equal skill level, the Darkside will prevail in most all cases, but I'm fine with putting skill up against skill regardless of the outcome.

    I just want to have some good battles without chasing for 30+min in some cases, or watching someone blatantly cheat the system by hiding in a map glitch accessible by only a select few. If the objective is simply to kill an opponent, I truly believe the game will become the current blast mode, but with Heroes, which sounds pretty fun to me even if the Darkside remains stronger.

    Well we have that. Hero Showdown. No exploits, no running. Pure skill vs skill. TDM, while it will remedy exploits, will do nothing to stave off running. I believe it will foster more quitting mid match. Nevertheless, what we have is flawed and TDM deserves its place in the mode lineup.

    Can you elaborate as to why you think others will run in Hero TDM, or why it will not stave off running? I don't find any players running in the current Blast game mode. I find that players switch to more defensive strategies when low on tickets, but they can't win by simply surviving, they still must balance their attack efforts to win/regain control of the ticket lead. I truly believe the same can be said for Hero TDM, and don't find any evidence to suggest otherwise.

    Well this is how I see it. And I reference the current HvV maps we have now. So, regular Blast is a fair analogy, but just to a certain degree. The disparity between hero power is much greater than that of the troopers. 1v1, any trooper class has a pretty fair chance of defeating any other. Far from true with heroes. Imagine, a solo Han rounds the corner and faces Vader with Maul swooping in from further back... That’s a run, and still a chase. Replace this with troopers and you have an interesting fight. When each and every death is a knock on your team’s tickets, believe there will still be running. This sort of running differs from what we have now and will be even more discouraging. The value of blaster heroes vanishes. Without targets, you’ll be running around looking for the enemy, but at least theoretically, inferior teams will have more of a breather to regroup back together. That is until experienced groups with mics figure out the most strategic locations on the maps to intercept and isolate the various spawn points, thereby preventing said regroup. This will develope rapidly once this mode is added. Without the targets, or an objective of some sort, the less experienced/skilled team will wander into outnumbered scenarios even more often. This will increase mid match quitting because again, every death counts and with no objective direction, it’s simply spawn, get outnumbered, die, hurt your team again, rage, quit. I’m not against this mode, but it is not the savior that y’all think. The more skilled team will still win. Without an alternative objective, the less skilled team will have even less of a chance and lose even more. All this will do is make it less of an inconvenience for the better team to win. In other words, easier for the more skilled team. I’d play it. I’d like to see it. But death match is multiplayer 101. A very basic and rudimentary game concept. Our target system is flawed, but to just replace it with TDM is the wrong thing to do. Add it, and then let’s maybe figure out a way to improve the objective play in HvV.
  • Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
    Raices wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea

    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.

    Ok. These are valid points.

    To be clear, I'm not trying to take away from fun ideas; but all of the objective-based Hero-only game mode concepts are founded on the assumption that Heroes and Villains are equally balanced with power/defense/maneuverability etc. They simply are not balanced, and I venture to guess that they will never be more balanced than they are today. The reason TDM has so much appeal to me, is because it is a simple concept that lets me pit my skill level against other players. Assuming equal skill level, the Darkside will prevail in most all cases, but I'm fine with putting skill up against skill regardless of the outcome.

    I just want to have some good battles without chasing for 30+min in some cases, or watching someone blatantly cheat the system by hiding in a map glitch accessible by only a select few. If the objective is simply to kill an opponent, I truly believe the game will become the current blast mode, but with Heroes, which sounds pretty fun to me even if the Darkside remains stronger.

    Well we have that. Hero Showdown. No exploits, no running. Pure skill vs skill. TDM, while it will remedy exploits, will do nothing to stave off running. I believe it will foster more quitting mid match. Nevertheless, what we have is flawed and TDM deserves its place in the mode lineup.

    Can you elaborate as to why you think others will run in Hero TDM, or why it will not stave off running? I don't find any players running in the current Blast game mode. I find that players switch to more defensive strategies when low on tickets, but they can't win by simply surviving, they still must balance their attack efforts to win/regain control of the ticket lead. I truly believe the same can be said for Hero TDM, and don't find any evidence to suggest otherwise.

    Well this is how I see it. And I reference the current HvV maps we have now. So, regular Blast is a fair analogy, but just to a certain degree. The disparity between hero power is much greater than that of the troopers. 1v1, any trooper class has a pretty fair chance of defeating any other. Far from true with heroes. Imagine, a solo Han rounds the corner and faces Vader with Maul swooping in from further back... That’s a run, and still a chase. Replace this with troopers and you have an interesting fight. When each and every death is a knock on your team’s tickets, believe there will still be running. This sort of running differs from what we have now and will be even more discouraging. The value of blaster heroes vanishes. Without targets, you’ll be running around looking for the enemy, but at least theoretically, inferior teams will have more of a breather to regroup back together. That is until experienced groups with mics figure out the most strategic locations on the maps to intercept and isolate the various spawn points, thereby preventing said regroup. This will develope rapidly once this mode is added. Without the targets, or an objective of some sort, the less experienced/skilled team will wander into outnumbered scenarios even more often. This will increase mid match quitting because again, every death counts and with no objective direction, it’s simply spawn, get outnumbered, die, hurt your team again, rage, quit. I’m not against this mode, but it is not the savior that y’all think. The more skilled team will still win. Without an alternative objective, the less skilled team will have even less of a chance and lose even more. All this will do is make it less of an inconvenience for the better team to win. In other words, easier for the more skilled team. I’d play it. I’d like to see it. But death match is multiplayer 101. A very basic and rudimentary game concept. Our target system is flawed, but to just replace it with TDM is the wrong thing to do. Add it, and then let’s maybe figure out a way to improve the objective play in HvV.

    I see your point, and that makes sense, but we need to replace the target system. Also, the more skilled team should win!
  • Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
    Raices wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea

    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.

    Ok. These are valid points.

    To be clear, I'm not trying to take away from fun ideas; but all of the objective-based Hero-only game mode concepts are founded on the assumption that Heroes and Villains are equally balanced with power/defense/maneuverability etc. They simply are not balanced, and I venture to guess that they will never be more balanced than they are today. The reason TDM has so much appeal to me, is because it is a simple concept that lets me pit my skill level against other players. Assuming equal skill level, the Darkside will prevail in most all cases, but I'm fine with putting skill up against skill regardless of the outcome.

    I just want to have some good battles without chasing for 30+min in some cases, or watching someone blatantly cheat the system by hiding in a map glitch accessible by only a select few. If the objective is simply to kill an opponent, I truly believe the game will become the current blast mode, but with Heroes, which sounds pretty fun to me even if the Darkside remains stronger.

    Well we have that. Hero Showdown. No exploits, no running. Pure skill vs skill. TDM, while it will remedy exploits, will do nothing to stave off running. I believe it will foster more quitting mid match. Nevertheless, what we have is flawed and TDM deserves its place in the mode lineup.

    Can you elaborate as to why you think others will run in Hero TDM, or why it will not stave off running? I don't find any players running in the current Blast game mode. I find that players switch to more defensive strategies when low on tickets, but they can't win by simply surviving, they still must balance their attack efforts to win/regain control of the ticket lead. I truly believe the same can be said for Hero TDM, and don't find any evidence to suggest otherwise.

    Well this is how I see it. And I reference the current HvV maps we have now. So, regular Blast is a fair analogy, but just to a certain degree. The disparity between hero power is much greater than that of the troopers. 1v1, any trooper class has a pretty fair chance of defeating any other. Far from true with heroes. Imagine, a solo Han rounds the corner and faces Vader with Maul swooping in from further back... That’s a run, and still a chase. Replace this with troopers and you have an interesting fight. When each and every death is a knock on your team’s tickets, believe there will still be running. This sort of running differs from what we have now and will be even more discouraging. The value of blaster heroes vanishes. Without targets, you’ll be running around looking for the enemy, but at least theoretically, inferior teams will have more of a breather to regroup back together. That is until experienced groups with mics figure out the most strategic locations on the maps to intercept and isolate the various spawn points, thereby preventing said regroup. This will develope rapidly once this mode is added. Without the targets, or an objective of some sort, the less experienced/skilled team will wander into outnumbered scenarios even more often. This will increase mid match quitting because again, every death counts and with no objective direction, it’s simply spawn, get outnumbered, die, hurt your team again, rage, quit. I’m not against this mode, but it is not the savior that y’all think. The more skilled team will still win. Without an alternative objective, the less skilled team will have even less of a chance and lose even more. All this will do is make it less of an inconvenience for the better team to win. In other words, easier for the more skilled team. I’d play it. I’d like to see it. But death match is multiplayer 101. A very basic and rudimentary game concept. Our target system is flawed, but to just replace it with TDM is the wrong thing to do. Add it, and then let’s maybe figure out a way to improve the objective play in HvV.

    I see your point, and that makes sense, but we need to replace the target system. Also, the more skilled team should win!

    Of course. It’s just a hard point to grind. TDM will make it easier for higher skill to win faster. To me, the proper solution is down a different path. All I’m saying is add TDM. Replacing the target system altogether is a fail.
  • Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
    Raices wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea

    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.

    Ok. These are valid points.

    To be clear, I'm not trying to take away from fun ideas; but all of the objective-based Hero-only game mode concepts are founded on the assumption that Heroes and Villains are equally balanced with power/defense/maneuverability etc. They simply are not balanced, and I venture to guess that they will never be more balanced than they are today. The reason TDM has so much appeal to me, is because it is a simple concept that lets me pit my skill level against other players. Assuming equal skill level, the Darkside will prevail in most all cases, but I'm fine with putting skill up against skill regardless of the outcome.

    I just want to have some good battles without chasing for 30+min in some cases, or watching someone blatantly cheat the system by hiding in a map glitch accessible by only a select few. If the objective is simply to kill an opponent, I truly believe the game will become the current blast mode, but with Heroes, which sounds pretty fun to me even if the Darkside remains stronger.

    Well we have that. Hero Showdown. No exploits, no running. Pure skill vs skill. TDM, while it will remedy exploits, will do nothing to stave off running. I believe it will foster more quitting mid match. Nevertheless, what we have is flawed and TDM deserves its place in the mode lineup.

    Can you elaborate as to why you think others will run in Hero TDM, or why it will not stave off running? I don't find any players running in the current Blast game mode. I find that players switch to more defensive strategies when low on tickets, but they can't win by simply surviving, they still must balance their attack efforts to win/regain control of the ticket lead. I truly believe the same can be said for Hero TDM, and don't find any evidence to suggest otherwise.

    Well this is how I see it. And I reference the current HvV maps we have now. So, regular Blast is a fair analogy, but just to a certain degree. The disparity between hero power is much greater than that of the troopers. 1v1, any trooper class has a pretty fair chance of defeating any other. Far from true with heroes. Imagine, a solo Han rounds the corner and faces Vader with Maul swooping in from further back... That’s a run, and still a chase. Replace this with troopers and you have an interesting fight. When each and every death is a knock on your team’s tickets, believe there will still be running. This sort of running differs from what we have now and will be even more discouraging. The value of blaster heroes vanishes. Without targets, you’ll be running around looking for the enemy, but at least theoretically, inferior teams will have more of a breather to regroup back together. That is until experienced groups with mics figure out the most strategic locations on the maps to intercept and isolate the various spawn points, thereby preventing said regroup. This will develope rapidly once this mode is added. Without the targets, or an objective of some sort, the less experienced/skilled team will wander into outnumbered scenarios even more often. This will increase mid match quitting because again, every death counts and with no objective direction, it’s simply spawn, get outnumbered, die, hurt your team again, rage, quit. I’m not against this mode, but it is not the savior that y’all think. The more skilled team will still win. Without an alternative objective, the less skilled team will have even less of a chance and lose even more. All this will do is make it less of an inconvenience for the better team to win. In other words, easier for the more skilled team. I’d play it. I’d like to see it. But death match is multiplayer 101. A very basic and rudimentary game concept. Our target system is flawed, but to just replace it with TDM is the wrong thing to do. Add it, and then let’s maybe figure out a way to improve the objective play in HvV.

    I see your point, and that makes sense, but we need to replace the target system. Also, the more skilled team should win!

    Of course. It’s just a hard point to grind. TDM will make it easier for higher skill to win faster. To me, the proper solution is down a different path. All I’m saying is add TDM. Replacing the target system altogether is a fail.

    If only this were more of a pro-TDM movement and less of an anti-HvV one, then maybe something might be accomplished.
  • AzorAhai wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
    Raices wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea

    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.

    Ok. These are valid points.

    To be clear, I'm not trying to take away from fun ideas; but all of the objective-based Hero-only game mode concepts are founded on the assumption that Heroes and Villains are equally balanced with power/defense/maneuverability etc. They simply are not balanced, and I venture to guess that they will never be more balanced than they are today. The reason TDM has so much appeal to me, is because it is a simple concept that lets me pit my skill level against other players. Assuming equal skill level, the Darkside will prevail in most all cases, but I'm fine with putting skill up against skill regardless of the outcome.

    I just want to have some good battles without chasing for 30+min in some cases, or watching someone blatantly cheat the system by hiding in a map glitch accessible by only a select few. If the objective is simply to kill an opponent, I truly believe the game will become the current blast mode, but with Heroes, which sounds pretty fun to me even if the Darkside remains stronger.

    Well we have that. Hero Showdown. No exploits, no running. Pure skill vs skill. TDM, while it will remedy exploits, will do nothing to stave off running. I believe it will foster more quitting mid match. Nevertheless, what we have is flawed and TDM deserves its place in the mode lineup.

    Can you elaborate as to why you think others will run in Hero TDM, or why it will not stave off running? I don't find any players running in the current Blast game mode. I find that players switch to more defensive strategies when low on tickets, but they can't win by simply surviving, they still must balance their attack efforts to win/regain control of the ticket lead. I truly believe the same can be said for Hero TDM, and don't find any evidence to suggest otherwise.

    Well this is how I see it. And I reference the current HvV maps we have now. So, regular Blast is a fair analogy, but just to a certain degree. The disparity between hero power is much greater than that of the troopers. 1v1, any trooper class has a pretty fair chance of defeating any other. Far from true with heroes. Imagine, a solo Han rounds the corner and faces Vader with Maul swooping in from further back... That’s a run, and still a chase. Replace this with troopers and you have an interesting fight. When each and every death is a knock on your team’s tickets, believe there will still be running. This sort of running differs from what we have now and will be even more discouraging. The value of blaster heroes vanishes. Without targets, you’ll be running around looking for the enemy, but at least theoretically, inferior teams will have more of a breather to regroup back together. That is until experienced groups with mics figure out the most strategic locations on the maps to intercept and isolate the various spawn points, thereby preventing said regroup. This will develope rapidly once this mode is added. Without the targets, or an objective of some sort, the less experienced/skilled team will wander into outnumbered scenarios even more often. This will increase mid match quitting because again, every death counts and with no objective direction, it’s simply spawn, get outnumbered, die, hurt your team again, rage, quit. I’m not against this mode, but it is not the savior that y’all think. The more skilled team will still win. Without an alternative objective, the less skilled team will have even less of a chance and lose even more. All this will do is make it less of an inconvenience for the better team to win. In other words, easier for the more skilled team. I’d play it. I’d like to see it. But death match is multiplayer 101. A very basic and rudimentary game concept. Our target system is flawed, but to just replace it with TDM is the wrong thing to do. Add it, and then let’s maybe figure out a way to improve the objective play in HvV.

    I see your point, and that makes sense, but we need to replace the target system. Also, the more skilled team should win!

    Of course. It’s just a hard point to grind. TDM will make it easier for higher skill to win faster. To me, the proper solution is down a different path. All I’m saying is add TDM. Replacing the target system altogether is a fail.

    If only this were more of a pro-TDM movement and less of an anti-HvV one, then maybe something might be accomplished.

    Well look here. The proper path.
  • Billkwando
    2050 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Dash wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    Dash wrote: »
    It comes down to getting the kills.

    Exactly. And the kills will be gotten by Darth Vader, Chewbacca, and right on down the tier list. Meanwhile, players who “get stuck” with ****** characters get crushed.
    Dash wrote: »
    The better mode is the mode dictated by skill...

    Sure. But the only “skill” involved in a TDM match between wildly unbalanced units is being quick enough to select the best unit first.

    With the existing lack of balance between units, HvV needs to be objective based. The current system isn’t perfect, but TDM would be worse.

    The better players win in the current HvV...

    Then what was your complaint again?

    Having to chase people for several minutes at a time or watching them exploit unreachable areas of maps...

    Lol. I’ll just leave this right here.
    Billkwando wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Also, I’m sorry, but if we can have Jet Pack Cargo and people aren’t losing their minds trying to prevent it from being a game mode, why are so many people up in arms about adding Hero Blast.
    I just find the whole argument funny when we're talking about a bunch of super experienced players who most likely already win all the time, whining because they're mad that they can't win just a little bit more..... at the expense of players who are likely far less experienced, and most likely randoms at that.

    This is simpler than you try to jokingly make it.

    Runners are Not intended for that mode. It was never intended. They have yet to implement anything to prevent it. Which is why these posts exist now.

    Secondly, the fact remains when the skilled players dominate, and the runners “run”, the enemy team with the runner suffers because they experience such a profound beating from the better skilled players team. Now we have the rage quits, the empty lobbies, searching for more players.

    TDM HVV would alleviate that. Whether it be an alternative choice of game mode to que for, or a replacement of the target system. It will still benefit the players as a whole.

    Joking around debating player skill to those of us within this post with channels dedicated to Hero Play, and Game Play is a bad choice lol.

    There are minimum 7 players within this thread that CRUSH everyone else. Debate the topic, give input, but don’t try to debate our skill :lol:! Because we can back up our claims. :wink:

    I never said runners were intended. Had you read my initial posts, you’d have seen the line, “I’m all for doing something about runners...” followed by something to the effect of “TDM isn’t the answer.”

    “TDM HVV would alleviate that.” - Dash

    Conjecture. You have no statistical evidence to back this claim. Furthermore, altering the mode this drastically would open a Pandora’s box of issues that you can’t foresee.

    Not sure where you got the impression that that quote in any way demeans anyone’s skill. On the contrary, it fully acknowledges the skill of the players making the complaint, but calls them out for demanding the mode be more tailored to their play style than it is already.

    Here’s a thought: when you encounter a runner, concede the point. Go to the menu, select “restart” and take the option to run out of their hands. Players with your mad skillz can easily overcome a couple of points lost, and when you take the fun out of running/irritating, many of them will quit. It’s not like you have to worry about win/loss or K/D statistics.

    Be the adult in the room ;)

    There's some reasoning for ya. :D

    They probably would quit. Also, I think a big reason HS doesn't pull more people away from HvV is because most of us don't like being forced to play characters we don't want to play.
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    ^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
    (Sorta like an insane Japanese SOAD, but w/ 3 vocalists and slap bass)

    Gamertag: Billkwando PSN: Billkwando YouTube: Billkwando
    Find me in HvV, pushing people off of stuff and watching them fall, like a cat.
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