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Devs, HvV Target System MUST be Eliminated ASAP

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  • AzorAhai wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    This sounds great to me.
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Excellent idea.
    Raices wrote: »
    Make it a "King of the Hill" mode.

    A single objective with a timer. The team that holds it the longest wins. It forces team play, it discourages running/camping because there's only one place to go, and it de-emphasizes K/D ratio.

    Great idea

    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.

    Ok. These are valid points.

    To be clear, I'm not trying to take away from fun ideas; but all of the objective-based Hero-only game mode concepts are founded on the assumption that Heroes and Villains are equally balanced with power/defense/maneuverability etc. They simply are not balanced, and I venture to guess that they will never be more balanced than they are today. The reason TDM has so much appeal to me, is because it is a simple concept that lets me pit my skill level against other players. Assuming equal skill level, the Darkside will prevail in most all cases, but I'm fine with putting skill up against skill regardless of the outcome.

    I just want to have some good battles without chasing for 30+min in some cases, or watching someone blatantly cheat the system by hiding in a map glitch accessible by only a select few. If the objective is simply to kill an opponent, I truly believe the game will become the current blast mode, but with Heroes, which sounds pretty fun to me even if the Darkside remains stronger.

    Well we have that. Hero Showdown. No exploits, no running. Pure skill vs skill. TDM, while it will remedy exploits, will do nothing to stave off running. I believe it will foster more quitting mid match. Nevertheless, what we have is flawed and TDM deserves its place in the mode lineup.

    Can you elaborate as to why you think others will run in Hero TDM, or why it will not stave off running? I don't find any players running in the current Blast game mode. I find that players switch to more defensive strategies when low on tickets, but they can't win by simply surviving, they still must balance their attack efforts to win/regain control of the ticket lead. I truly believe the same can be said for Hero TDM, and don't find any evidence to suggest otherwise.

    Well this is how I see it. And I reference the current HvV maps we have now. So, regular Blast is a fair analogy, but just to a certain degree. The disparity between hero power is much greater than that of the troopers. 1v1, any trooper class has a pretty fair chance of defeating any other. Far from true with heroes. Imagine, a solo Han rounds the corner and faces Vader with Maul swooping in from further back... That’s a run, and still a chase. Replace this with troopers and you have an interesting fight. When each and every death is a knock on your team’s tickets, believe there will still be running. This sort of running differs from what we have now and will be even more discouraging. The value of blaster heroes vanishes. Without targets, you’ll be running around looking for the enemy, but at least theoretically, inferior teams will have more of a breather to regroup back together. That is until experienced groups with mics figure out the most strategic locations on the maps to intercept and isolate the various spawn points, thereby preventing said regroup. This will develope rapidly once this mode is added. Without the targets, or an objective of some sort, the less experienced/skilled team will wander into outnumbered scenarios even more often. This will increase mid match quitting because again, every death counts and with no objective direction, it’s simply spawn, get outnumbered, die, hurt your team again, rage, quit. I’m not against this mode, but it is not the savior that y’all think. The more skilled team will still win. Without an alternative objective, the less skilled team will have even less of a chance and lose even more. All this will do is make it less of an inconvenience for the better team to win. In other words, easier for the more skilled team. I’d play it. I’d like to see it. But death match is multiplayer 101. A very basic and rudimentary game concept. Our target system is flawed, but to just replace it with TDM is the wrong thing to do. Add it, and then let’s maybe figure out a way to improve the objective play in HvV.

    I see your point, and that makes sense, but we need to replace the target system. Also, the more skilled team should win!

    Of course. It’s just a hard point to grind. TDM will make it easier for higher skill to win faster. To me, the proper solution is down a different path. All I’m saying is add TDM. Replacing the target system altogether is a fail.

    If only this were more of a pro-TDM movement and less of an anti-HvV one, then maybe something might be accomplished.

    Let’s start again then!

    Please, for the sake of saving the only 4v4 Hero game mode: Hero TDM!
    In 1977, a single shot rang out at the Cantina.... No first, no second. Han shot - end of statement.

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  • Hatchet_ wrote: »
    Just had this happen to me today. There's no way of getting to boba fett without falling to your death. This guy had the nerve to do this even though my team was gonna lose the match anyway. I am so sick of this..
    2wzef3b1vb7x.jpg
    TDM would be a terrible mess because the characters don’t balance against one another individually (and they never will).
    With nothing to encourage teamwork, players would be scattered across the map, easy pickings for Vader, Chewie, and the other characters who hold a significant advantage in 1v1s.

    Despite its glaring flaw (runaways), the current system at least encourages team play and staying together. The better fix, IMO, is to implement a TDM-style score of 50-100 points and make the target worth more points, with individual kills counting for one point. This still rewards good team play, discourages non-targets from recklessly throwing themselves at the other team, and diminishes the reward for running, as a good team of four will be able to capitalize on the 3v4 advantage if someone does decide to run.

    This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. every match its either run-and-hide stalemates or total gank fests. Implementing a TDM attack and defend hybrid would allow more freedom to go after the other heroes without compromising teamplay. It'll discourage targeted players from using exploits such as the image above because there would be no point in using them anymore, which could result in more comebacks from a losing team that manages to kill more targeted players. Running and hiding would also turn from a cheap and annoying tactic to a reasonable decision if it meant the difference between winning and losing a close match, but not guaranteeing anything.
    Outrider wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I’d rather a new TDM mode than eliminating the current version. I’m sure some people like the target system and it’d be kinda shady to take it away from them. It’s the same way I view GA, I don’t like the hero spam and wouldnt want to take away people’s fun that have paid for it but would gladly play a large scale trooper mode that was separate.

    ^ This. Adding a new mode and giving people options would be great. Taking away a mode in a game people paid for would upset anyone who enjoys it as is.

    While I get where you're coming from, this would only split the player base even more which mean finding games would take longer. And no one wants that. Or better yet, replace Hero Showdown.

    Adding a Hero Blast will not split any player base. That’s just a silly notion that is oft quoted because it sounds meaningful. But it isn’t.

    Sure, The more popular game modes are not going to have much of a problem finding games regardless of how many modes they put in. However, if they add a new hero TDM mode and leave the current HvV in the game I bet you money most players are gonna play the TDM version. Leaving those that actually like what we currently have frustrated because they're having a harder time getting into a game. So why keep it in the game other than for privet matches? having 1 or 2 HvV game modes that make everyone happy is the way to go. So that's why I say either revamp HvV or replace Hero Showdown.
  • I like this. Change it. Now.
  • Hatchet_ wrote: »
    Hatchet_ wrote: »
    Just had this happen to me today. There's no way of getting to boba fett without falling to your death. This guy had the nerve to do this even though my team was gonna lose the match anyway. I am so sick of this..
    2wzef3b1vb7x.jpg
    TDM would be a terrible mess because the characters don’t balance against one another individually (and they never will).
    With nothing to encourage teamwork, players would be scattered across the map, easy pickings for Vader, Chewie, and the other characters who hold a significant advantage in 1v1s.

    Despite its glaring flaw (runaways), the current system at least encourages team play and staying together. The better fix, IMO, is to implement a TDM-style score of 50-100 points and make the target worth more points, with individual kills counting for one point. This still rewards good team play, discourages non-targets from recklessly throwing themselves at the other team, and diminishes the reward for running, as a good team of four will be able to capitalize on the 3v4 advantage if someone does decide to run.

    This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. every match its either run-and-hide stalemates or total gank fests. Implementing a TDM attack and defend hybrid would allow more freedom to go after the other heroes without compromising teamplay. It'll discourage targeted players from using exploits such as the image above because there would be no point in using them anymore, which could result in more comebacks from a losing team that manages to kill more targeted players. Running and hiding would also turn from a cheap and annoying tactic to a reasonable decision if it meant the difference between winning and losing a close match, but not guaranteeing anything.
    Outrider wrote: »
    rollind24 wrote: »
    I’d rather a new TDM mode than eliminating the current version. I’m sure some people like the target system and it’d be kinda shady to take it away from them. It’s the same way I view GA, I don’t like the hero spam and wouldnt want to take away people’s fun that have paid for it but would gladly play a large scale trooper mode that was separate.

    ^ This. Adding a new mode and giving people options would be great. Taking away a mode in a game people paid for would upset anyone who enjoys it as is.

    While I get where you're coming from, this would only split the player base even more which mean finding games would take longer. And no one wants that. Or better yet, replace Hero Showdown.

    Adding a Hero Blast will not split any player base. That’s just a silly notion that is oft quoted because it sounds meaningful. But it isn’t.

    Sure, The more popular game modes are not going to have much of a problem finding games regardless of how many modes they put in. However, if they add a new hero TDM mode and leave the current HvV in the game I bet you money most players are gonna play the TDM version. Leaving those that actually like what we currently have frustrated because they're having a harder time getting into a game. So why keep it in the game other than for privet matches? having 1 or 2 HvV game modes that make everyone happy is the way to go. So that's why I say either revamp HvV or replace Hero Showdown.

    Somehow I doubt that a Star Wars hero mode that needs all of eight total people will have any trouble finding players.
  • Somehow I doubt that a Star Wars hero mode that needs all of eight total people will have any trouble finding players.

    Unlike all the hero modes we have now? And remember how often people dropped out of Outer Rim when HvV came up?

    Neither what we have now nor what we had then work. But Hero Assault on Pandemic's BF2 was awesome.
  • Han_Spinel wrote: »
    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.

    You remember Yoda can heal right? I am of course thinking of objectives with cover and different angles of approach like Yavin temple, Death Star laser control, things like that. Nothing open like on Starkiller. Honestly I would love TDM, and would prefer that over any other suggestions I've heard.
  • Han_Spinel wrote: »
    I respectfully disagree. You guys remember that dioxis alone can clear/scatter stationary objectives right? And I don't want to play king of the hill against Phasma's droid, Bossk's endless mines and dioxis, Freeze + blasters, etc. etc. etc.

    I just want the opportunity to fight Heroes vs. Villains, simple as that. TDM.

    You remember Yoda can heal right? I am of course thinking of objectives with cover and different angles of approach like Yavin temple, Death Star laser control, things like that. Nothing open like on Starkiller. Honestly I would love TDM, and would prefer that over any other suggestions I've heard.

    Sames, and wasn’t trying to squash your suggestion outright; just so many balancing issues regardless of objective. I hope they actually consider Hero Blast, and really hope they acknowledge that the Target system is getting abused in a bad way.
    In 1977, a single shot rang out at the Cantina.... No first, no second. Han shot - end of statement.

    PSN: Han_Spinel
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    The Unofficial Star Wars Battlefront Campaign Companion
  • Are we keeping track of votes again?
    Janina Gavankar/Iden Versio Fan
    hojevrxvarht.png
    PSN: Empire_TW. Twitter: Empire_TW. Youtube: Empire_TW.
  • lerodemmy wrote: »
    Empire_TW wrote: »
    Are we keeping track of votes again?

    It's three threads to none in favor of TDM.

    But still no feedback and today CT is about measly clown trooper skins...
    Janina Gavankar/Iden Versio Fan
    hojevrxvarht.png
    PSN: Empire_TW. Twitter: Empire_TW. Youtube: Empire_TW.
  • If there is one thing that is clear from all this discussion, it's that no one appreciates rewarding targets for running instead of playing Heroes vs. Villains, and no one appreciates having to deal with people blatantly cheating, and exploiting map glitches in-game.

    No, we do not want the current target system.
    In 1977, a single shot rang out at the Cantina.... No first, no second. Han shot - end of statement.

    PSN: Han_Spinel
    Youtube: Han Spinel
    Twitter: @Han_Spinel
    The Unofficial Star Wars Battlefront Campaign Companion
  • lerodemmy wrote: »
    Empire_TW wrote: »
    Are we keeping track of votes again?

    It's three threads to none in favor of TDM.

    It's like a million threads to none.
  • Devlin21 wrote: »
    Dash wrote: »
    The importance carried with this thread is deserving of the front page daily. This subject needs attention.

    This^^

    Im tired of runners


    Did have a funny one

    Last target. Whole round he was running
    He got caught between the transports on starkiller base
    And I flamethrowed him and then emoted, theres not escape from me.

    This is what I like about this game mode and if you manage to evade your hunters that is also fun. Problem is when people are using map glitches for hiding, that should be fixed.
  • Dash
    11554 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    TLDR: You Run, You’re Done. :lol: :naughty:
    Origin ID: "NWG_Dash"

    Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyUQ3FFqM-TQd-3xtZmHOGQ?view_as=subscriber
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  • Dash wrote: »
    TLDR: You Run, You’re Done. :lol: :naughty:

    Love this video! The best!
  • I would appreciate it's removal as well
  • Always thought HvV is a garbage mode. I don't think changing the targeting system fix that. Hero showdown is much more ballanced and less chaotic.
  • HvV blast mode please. And no troopers like 2015. All heroes and villians only. I for one am sick of playing run Luke run...or Maul...or Boba. Make it first team to 100 kills. That way players who run away don't affect the game that much. Also could be cool 5 V 5 or 6 V 6.
  • Empire_TW wrote: »
    Are we keeping track of votes again?

    3,720 to 1!

    Pretty sure the amount in favor for its removal is higher, very high.
    Janina Gavankar/Iden Versio Fan
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  • Billkwando wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    Empire_TW wrote: »
    Are we keeping track of votes again?

    It's three threads to none in favor of TDM.

    LOL, silence means approval. The (likely) hundreds of forum members who are registered here don't need to create a thread requesting that we stick with the status quo. They definitely don't need to create 3 of them.

    This is why I post no every time a thread like this pops up with a change that shouldn't be changed. It's never unanimous.
    #JoinTheBuzz
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  • Billkwando wrote: »
    Dash wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    lerodemmy wrote: »
    Dash wrote: »
    It comes down to getting the kills.

    Exactly. And the kills will be gotten by Darth Vader, Chewbacca, and right on down the tier list. Meanwhile, players who “get stuck” with ****** characters get crushed.
    Dash wrote: »
    The better mode is the mode dictated by skill...

    Sure. But the only “skill” involved in a TDM match between wildly unbalanced units is being quick enough to select the best unit first.

    With the existing lack of balance between units, HvV needs to be objective based. The current system isn’t perfect, but TDM would be worse.

    The better players win in the current HvV...

    Then what was your complaint again?

    Having to chase people for several minutes at a time or watching them exploit unreachable areas of maps...

    Lol. I’ll just leave this right here.
    Billkwando wrote: »
    Han_Spinel wrote: »
    Also, I’m sorry, but if we can have Jet Pack Cargo and people aren’t losing their minds trying to prevent it from being a game mode, why are so many people up in arms about adding Hero Blast.
    I just find the whole argument funny when we're talking about a bunch of super experienced players who most likely already win all the time, whining because they're mad that they can't win just a little bit more..... at the expense of players who are likely far less experienced, and most likely randoms at that.

    This is simpler than you try to jokingly make it.

    Runners are Not intended for that mode. It was never intended. They have yet to implement anything to prevent it. Which is why these posts exist now.

    Secondly, the fact remains when the skilled players dominate, and the runners “run”, the enemy team with the runner suffers because they experience such a profound beating from the better skilled players team. Now we have the rage quits, the empty lobbies, searching for more players.

    TDM HVV would alleviate that. Whether it be an alternative choice of game mode to que for, or a replacement of the target system. It will still benefit the players as a whole.

    Joking around debating player skill to those of us within this post with channels dedicated to Hero Play, and Game Play is a bad choice lol.

    There are minimum 7 players within this thread that CRUSH everyone else. Debate the topic, give input, but don’t try to debate our skill :lol:! Because we can back up our claims. :wink:

    I never said runners were intended. Had you read my initial posts, you’d have seen the line, “I’m all for doing something about runners...” followed by something to the effect of “TDM isn’t the answer.”

    “TDM HVV would alleviate that.” - Dash

    Conjecture. You have no statistical evidence to back this claim. Furthermore, altering the mode this drastically would open a Pandora’s box of issues that you can’t foresee.

    Not sure where you got the impression that that quote in any way demeans anyone’s skill. On the contrary, it fully acknowledges the skill of the players making the complaint, but calls them out for demanding the mode be more tailored to their play style than it is already.

    Here’s a thought: when you encounter a runner, concede the point. Go to the menu, select “restart” and take the option to run out of their hands. Players with your mad skillz can easily overcome a couple of points lost, and when you take the fun out of running/irritating, many of them will quit. It’s not like you have to worry about win/loss or K/D statistics.

    Be the adult in the room ;)

    There's some reasoning for ya. :D

    They probably would quit. Also, I think a big reason HS doesn't pull more people away from HvV is because most of us don't like being forced to play characters we don't want to play.

    I don't play often because I don't like "battle royale" type games, but last few times I played I wasn't on the receiving end of a sound thrashing so maybe I got better, or more people joined (well some times the enemy team wins without question, but me and my teammate were able to complete the daily challenge, which is what I wanted anyway, though playing without a challenge might make it more fun).
    #JoinTheBuzz
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  • Billkwando wrote: »
    But anyway, I do genuinely agree that they should fix the exploits that make running genuinely unfair (see Boba) but other than that, if your whole team can't coordinate enough to block the path of one runner, then you're probably not as good as you think you are.

    There's no "coordinate enough to block the path" when Boba Fett can fly above all obstructions. Seriously, what path? That's nonsense.
  • From now on, this is the banner of TDM.
    4zshuiij6nx2.jpg
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    Give me an Old Luke skin, and we will be best friends. He is the only one I plan on buying with real $. :-)
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  • Han_Spinel
    1102 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Billkwando wrote: »
    But anyway, I do genuinely agree that they should fix the exploits that make running genuinely unfair (see Boba) but other than that, if your whole team can't coordinate enough to block the path of one runner, then you're probably not as good as you think you are.

    There's no "coordinate enough to block the path" when Boba Fett can fly above all obstructions. Seriously, what path? That's nonsense.

    +1. Boba Fett has an unparalleled ability to maneuver across every map, and can access map glitches inaccessible to ALL other heroes and villains combined.

    Besides, the point at hand isn’t our inability to kill runners, it’s not wanting to spend our game time chasing a running target. As if anyone in their right mind would argue against this.
    In 1977, a single shot rang out at the Cantina.... No first, no second. Han shot - end of statement.

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  • The fact you can easily leave one person alive and they will become the target pretty much breaks the mode.
    Janina Gavankar/Iden Versio Fan
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  • Dash
    11554 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    From now on, this is the banner of TDM.
    4zshuiij6nx2.jpg

    +1. “So it was written”. :blush:
    Origin ID: "NWG_Dash"

    Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyUQ3FFqM-TQd-3xtZmHOGQ?view_as=subscriber
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  • Dash
    11554 posts Member
    Empire_TW wrote: »
    The fact you can easily leave one person alive and they will become the target pretty much breaks the mode.

    oxmsm4qx024c.gif
    Origin ID: "NWG_Dash"

    Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyUQ3FFqM-TQd-3xtZmHOGQ?view_as=subscriber
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  • Maybe if his jet pack worked more like an extended jump trooper instead of being buffed to allow essentially infinite flight it would be better. I honestly have never seen a compelling reason for him to fly the way he does, it's not a flight suit it's still just a jet pack.
  • Billkwando wrote: »
    Billkwando wrote: »
    But anyway, I do genuinely agree that they should fix the exploits that make running genuinely unfair (see Boba) but other than that, if your whole team can't coordinate enough to block the path of one runner, then you're probably not as good as you think you are.

    There's no "coordinate enough to block the path" when Boba Fett can fly above all obstructions. Seriously, what path? That's nonsense.

    Which part of "but other than that" didn't you understand?

    All of it.
  • sillysaxon wrote: »
    Maybe if his jet pack worked more like an extended jump trooper instead of being buffed to allow essentially infinite flight it would be better. I honestly have never seen a compelling reason for him to fly the way he does, it's not a flight suit it's still just a jet pack.




    his hunter instinct is bugged, boba possesses "extended exposure without having equipped the card." the people who play it, so take a hero with "star card"
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