DICE looking into removing the target system.

johnmangala · December 19, 2018 6:48PM

According to this reddit comment by f8rge, Dice may look into a event where the target system is removed and will gauge the feedback from there.

Good hopes that we get a better HvV in 2019.

MyLittleGreenFriend · December 19, 2018 6:51PM

YES!

@lerodemmy @Landeaux2 @TonyGoombah1 the HvV players are saved!

This seriously better be a permanent mode though.

Empire_TW · December 19, 2018 6:55PM

Removing the target system would be ideal.

anidriX · December 19, 2018 6:57PM

I don't like TDM but If they were to try it, at least they should try something along @Whodunnit's recent idea.

https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/127108/how-to-make-hvv-better

unit900000 · December 19, 2018 7:21PM

there is potential for it to be even worse then it is now so hopefully thay dont botch this fingers crossed they do it right.

Cadoth · December 19, 2018 7:22PM

Yes it was said like two-three weeks ago and when I first heard these rumors I was kinda happy though, I mean this target system is just frustrating for several reasons but I think you ppl already know it

Landeaux2 · December 19, 2018 7:38PM

I doubt they actually do it or, if they do, do it correctly.

If they somehow go forward with this, I foresee runners and campers crying that they’re perpetually losing and complain for the target system to return.

BucksawBoushh · December 19, 2018 8:19PM

You mean like how they gauged feedback on when they removed the Blast spawn timer and EVERYBODY suggested getting rid of it?

Community - We do not want the spawn timer in Blast!

DICE - We’ve listened! We reduced the spawn timer!

DarthLando · December 19, 2018 8:20PM

Interesting

TheScape · December 19, 2018 8:30PM

Take it with a grain of salt (or the Crait plains). He says they want to implement it as an event similar to how they introduced the BP events. The back end is not ready for it yet.

Billkwando · December 19, 2018 8:38PM

Landeaux2 wrote: »

If they somehow go forward with this, I foresee runners and campers crying that they’re perpetually losing and complain for the target system to return.

Meanwhile, you're advocating a system that promotes camping. There's no motivation to move around the map. Just find your favorite choke point and pitch a tent (or a Phasma droid) with your team. Brilliant.

unit900000 · December 19, 2018 8:46PM

Billkwando wrote: »

Landeaux2 wrote: »

If they somehow go forward with this, I foresee runners and campers crying that they’re perpetually losing and complain for the target system to return.

Meanwhile, you're advocating a system that promotes camping. There's no motivation to move around the map. Just find your favorite choke point and pitch a tent (or a Phasma droid) with your team. Brilliant.

I thought he was asking for TDM though? thats a lot better then some of the other suggestions I have seen on these forums that would basically turn it into a bigger hero showdown.

Billkwando · December 19, 2018 8:47PM

Also, expect a lot more rage quitting, as running is the way many players manage the frustration of a steamroll. It's the "at least I'm gonna make them work for it" attitude. That's the impression I've gotten in the past anyway. Runners don't seem to be much of an issue on Xbox.

How do you feel about the idea of having to chase the entire team around the map, say if everybody runs at once?

westgreateight8 · December 19, 2018 8:48PM

ha hallejuhah hallejuhah
hallejuhah!!!!!

unit900000 · December 19, 2018 8:50PM

just bring back the 2015 HvV the troopers would help keep it from turning into camper showdown 2.0 and TDM is lame though I prefer TDM over an elimination style mode with no troopers or anything based on a target system.

Landeaux2 · December 19, 2018 9:11PM

Billkwando wrote: »

Landeaux2 wrote: »

If they somehow go forward with this, I foresee runners and campers crying that they’re perpetually losing and complain for the target system to return.

Meanwhile, you're advocating a system that promotes camping. There's no motivation to move around the map. Just find your favorite choke point and pitch a tent (or a Phasma droid) with your team. Brilliant.

Interesting you say that. If someone is camping, you do not have to worry about them in a TDM system. They can be completely ignored. Currently, Boba can fly away, Maul can run, Bossk can camp, etc etc etc. They are non-factors in TDM. You shouldn’t be rewarded for running away or finding a hiding spot like what currently takes place with the target system. Fight to win.

MyLittleGreenFriend · December 19, 2018 9:13PM

Billkwando wrote: »

Landeaux2 wrote: »

If they somehow go forward with this, I foresee runners and campers crying that they’re perpetually losing and complain for the target system to return.

Meanwhile, you're advocating a system that promotes camping. There's no motivation to move around the map. Just find your favorite choke point and pitch a tent (or a Phasma droid) with your team. Brilliant.

Just ignore them then!

Landeaux2 · December 19, 2018 9:17PM

unit900000 wrote: »

just bring back the 2015 HvV the troopers would help keep it from turning into camper showdown 2.0 and TDM is lame though I prefer TDM over an elimination style mode with no troopers or anything based on a target system.

I’d rather not get two shot by vanguard or be constantly hit with stinger pistol.

MyLittleGreenFriend · December 19, 2018 9:19PM

Landeaux2 wrote: »

unit900000 wrote: »

just bring back the 2015 HvV the troopers would help keep it from turning into camper showdown 2.0 and TDM is lame though I prefer TDM over an elimination style mode with no troopers or anything based on a target system.

I’d rather not get two shot by vanguard or be constantly hit with stinger pistol.

We want a heroes only mode, so no to BF2015 HvV.

Landeaux2 · December 19, 2018 9:23PM

Billkwando wrote: »

Also, expect a lot more rage quitting, as running is the way many players manage the frustration of a steamroll. It's the "at least I'm gonna make them work for it" attitude. That's the impression I've gotten in the past anyway. Runners don't seem to be much of an issue on Xbox.

How do you feel about the idea of having to chase the entire team around the map, say if everybody runs at once?

People rage quit all the time right now. There’s so many matches where people quit after they lose two tickets.

They run out of the gate. They don’t wait for an “oh snap I’m losing bad, I better start running” moment. They just do it immediately. They’re doing it to be annoying. Running isn’t about helping the team. It’s about being a coward and/or a troll, quite frankly. This game needs to stop rewarding cowardice “tactics.” You should win in a shooter by killing, not by running.

If everyone on one team runs, they’re of absolutely no threat to you. You can dwindle them down since they obviously won’t be attacking back. In the current system, one person runs while you have to continuously fend off 3 enemies who are throwing themselves onto you with no regard for their lives. That’s the problem with the target system and running. If everyone runs in TDM, they will not be attacking you therefore they cannot gain the necessary points to win. In this system, cowards are rewarded by running simply for staying alive.

Edited for language. - EA_Cian

bfloo · December 19, 2018 9:24PM

The problem with Hero tdm will be one team will stay together and 4v1 the other team to death.

Appl3corps · December 19, 2018 9:28PM

Removing the target will eliminate the issues inherent to the target system. Mainly running. I don't see a ton of runners, but they really don't make the game fun.

However, it will not help some of the other issues this mode has. Namely steamrolls and the subsequent quitting. I don't see it reducing the amount of quitting mid match, and may increase it.

As was stated earlier, teams may just camp a small area now. Especially with all the stuns in this mode it could be an issue.

Also, the fact that it is 4v4 is an issue. All it takes is one decent player to rip the other team to shreds. They can't leave the point total at 10, the game would last 30 seconds. Even if it's at 100 it would likely be too short. Increasing it to 8v8 or 9v9 might be a little better, but still......will be interesting to see how it plays out.

unit900000 · December 19, 2018 9:30PM

bfloo wrote: »

The problem with Hero tdm will be one team will stay together and 4v1 the other team to death.

then thats a team issue that type of thing happens in the current HvV if a team gets destroyed because said team has no team work then thats on said team not the game.

hsf_ · December 19, 2018 9:32PM

Billkwando wrote: »

Landeaux2 wrote: »

If they somehow go forward with this, I foresee runners and campers crying that they’re perpetually losing and complain for the target system to return.

Meanwhile, you're advocating a system that promotes camping. There's no motivation to move around the map. Just find your favorite choke point and pitch a tent (or a Phasma droid) with your team. Brilliant.

Exactly, but a decent counter to the guys who hide in small area's is Boba or Chewy though, as you can spam rockets or furious bowcaster. However, runners are a genuine problem, it's the same heroes that do it too.

Billkwando · December 19, 2018 9:42PM

Appl3corps wrote: »

However, it will not help some of the other issues this mode has. Namely steamrolls and the subsequent quitting. I don't see it reducing the amount of quitting mid match, and may increase it.

As was stated earlier, teams may just camp a small area now. Especially with all the stuns in this mode it could be an issue.

This.

Who knows? It may be awesome. Personally I enjoy 1 on 1 duels, when I can get them, and that is NEVER going to happen with teams that stay together (and/or know how to use stuns properly).

I don't normally ever run, unless it's briefly to recharge my abilities, regroup with my team, or find the higher ground (lol).......but everyone once in a while it is hilarious and fun.

If they do decide to make an event of it, we'll just have to see how it plays out.

EV02AAA · December 19, 2018 9:46PM

Perhaps they'll introduce it as a weekend test... and never, ever remove it. You know, like EoR MM...

unit900000 · December 19, 2018 9:48PM

Landeaux2 wrote: »

unit900000 wrote: »

just bring back the 2015 HvV the troopers would help keep it from turning into camper showdown 2.0 and TDM is lame though I prefer TDM over an elimination style mode with no troopers or anything based on a target system.

I’d rather not get two shot by vanguard or be constantly hit with stinger pistol.

vanguard is a joke if your using a saber hero its insanely easy to deal with blaster heroes could have a little trouble with it though but I still think it can be dealt with. I do see stinger pistols and DC-15 explosive shot being problems they can either remove those from the mode or they can just make the troopers be royal guard like characters or something like that were they have a set loud out that would be balanced for the mode.

all I know is I would really prefer to have the 2015 HvV back over anything else unless they decided to add HCTF to the game instead sense that is the most fun mode I ever played on any of the battlefront games.

Rocket32 · December 19, 2018 10:25PM

They’ll probably just do the easy thing and turn it into TDM when what they need to do is put the system from Battlefront 2015 back.

Old_fella_1963 · December 19, 2018 10:36PM

It can't be true.because we are told that the CM prioritises this forum for announcing big stuff ....

Billkwando · December 19, 2018 11:11PM

Rocket32 wrote: »

They’ll probably just do the easy thing and turn it into TDM when what they need to do is put the system from Battlefront 2015 back.

As @Dash might tell you, BF15 and BF2 are two different games.

I can't speak for everyone, but as someone who has only ever played HvV in BF2, I don't want troopers anywhere near it. Put heroes in Strike and Blast maybe, but it's Heroes Vs Villains, not Heroes Vs Villains Vs Random Infantry.

kirtanloorii · December 20, 2018 5:08AM

If this is true, then this is excellent news. I have wanted to play HvV for a very long time, but I stopped because I hate chasing the target instead of just fighting. I actually did a thread on it.

https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/118506/this-is-why-i-wont-play-hvv

Lee1981 · December 20, 2018 5:26AM

bfloo wrote: »

The problem with Hero tdm will be one team will stay together and 4v1 the other team to death.

Well that is what happens in this awful mode now, so it won’t be any different then

Unwarycoin · December 20, 2018 5:30AM

I hope this idea is not permanent, this is a really bad idea as a replacement. New mode I'd be okay with, temporary maybe (which is what it sounds like).

Oidmetala · December 20, 2018 6:14AM

They should not touch the current HvV and create a new Hero-Mode with capture points instead.

For example a mode like in Guild Wars 2 - PvP:
-Every team starts in there own base.
-Every team got one close point to capture and in the middle is also a point to capture.
=> Means 3 points to capture and hold.

With this you will have team based fights, 1vs1 and 2vs2 situations.
With this nobody will run away anymore, because if you want to win, you have to hold more capture points as the other team.

But i guess that's too much work to implement...

Unwarycoin · December 20, 2018 6:16AM

Oidmetala wrote: »

They should not touch the current HvV and create a new Hero-Mode with capture points instead.

For example a mode like in Guild Wars 2 - PvP:
-Every team starts in there own base.
-Every team got one close point to capture and in the middle is also a point to capture.
=> Means 3 points to capture and hold.

With this you will have team based fights, 1vs1 and 2vs2 situations.
With this nobody will run away anymore, because if you want to win, you have to hold more capture points as the other team.

But i guess that's too much work to implement...

New modes are the best idea! Also, this is a great one.

unit900000 · December 20, 2018 8:51AM

Oidmetala wrote: »

They should not touch the current HvV and create a new Hero-Mode with capture points instead.

For example a mode like in Guild Wars 2 - PvP:
-Every team starts in there own base.
-Every team got one close point to capture and in the middle is also a point to capture.
=> Means 3 points to capture and hold.

With this you will have team based fights, 1vs1 and 2vs2 situations.
With this nobody will run away anymore, because if you want to win, you have to hold more capture points as the other team.

But i guess that's too much work to implement...

and dark side auto wins do to Phasma and Bossk so nope.

TheScape · December 20, 2018 8:55AM

I still would prefer some point based system where targets have a higher value like what @Whodunnit posted. It keeps some of the strategical play of deciding how to defend your target or attack theirs, but it also adds a sort of team deathmatch to penalize glitchers and runners. But I welcome the event if they end up doing it. It would also mean that tanks to the back end update, events with big changes on other modes could be created and that's a good thing.

Oidmetala · December 20, 2018 9:45AM

unit900000 wrote: »

Oidmetala wrote: »

They should not touch the current HvV and create a new Hero-Mode with capture points instead.

For example a mode like in Guild Wars 2 - PvP:
-Every team starts in there own base.
-Every team got one close point to capture and in the middle is also a point to capture.
=> Means 3 points to capture and hold.

With this you will have team based fights, 1vs1 and 2vs2 situations.
With this nobody will run away anymore, because if you want to win, you have to hold more capture points as the other team.

But i guess that's too much work to implement...

and dark side auto wins do to Phasma and Bossk so nope.

That's a question about map design - not about modes.

I don't know why Phasma and Bossk should give the dark side a auto win.
If the points are big and open enough, it would be no problem to deal with them.

But Dice will anyways not create stuff like this.
If they do something - they will just keep it like now and make it team death match.

lerodemmy · December 20, 2018 9:57AM

I hope this event actually takes place. I believe, however, that it will not. Even if it does, I am concerned that those players who rely on running will complain about the event and DICE will listen, resulting in the target system remaining in perpetuity.

I have made my thoughts on this issue well known. The current HvV cannot be better than Hero Blast/TDM. I do not believe that anything besides TDM should be used to replace the target system.

I have seen a lot of good ideas, but I think we need to keep it simple for the players and the devs. We do not need elaborate timers or X amounts of points per target kill. Trooper Blast works. Hero Blast will work.

Whodunnit · December 20, 2018 10:28AM

anidriX wrote: »

I don't like TDM but If they were to try it, at least they should try something along @Whodunnit's recent idea.

https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/127108/how-to-make-hvv-better

TheScape wrote: »

I still would prefer some point based system where targets have a higher value like what @Whodunnit posted. It keeps some of the strategical play of deciding how to defend your target or attack theirs, but it also adds a sort of team deathmatch to penalize glitchers and runners. But I welcome the event if they end up doing it. It would also mean that tanks to the back end update, events with big changes on other modes could be created and that's a good thing.

Well yes, I’d say the Target System doesn’t work currently and needs to be changed/removed but I’d prefer if something else would replace it instead of having a single TDM mode. Some strategic aspect is needed in this Hero mode imo.
But if they are doing events to see the feedback that’s a great start.

nolukeimyourfather · December 20, 2018 10:49AM

We want BF2015 HvV so, what now

MyLittleGreenFriend wrote: »

Landeaux2 wrote: »

unit900000 wrote: »

just bring back the 2015 HvV the troopers would help keep it from turning into camper showdown 2.0 and TDM is lame though I prefer TDM over an elimination style mode with no troopers or anything based on a target system.

I’d rather not get two shot by vanguard or be constantly hit with stinger pistol.

We want a heroes only mode, so no to BF2015 HvV.

Old_fella_1963 · December 20, 2018 12:33PM

Tdm should only have randomly assigned Heroes available to you....and 5x points if you are playing solo

Eat_da_PuePue · December 20, 2018 3:07PM

I have advocated for a "High Value Target" system in the past and continue to do so. Each team starts off with say, 100 or 50 points. Each enemy defeated is a point lost for their team. First team to lose all their points loses the match.

Random "High Value Targets" are chosen throughout the match. If you kill those targets, their team loses say, 10 or 5 points. These HVTs are switched up every minute or two to minimize the effect of runners/campers/exploiters.

This system will minimize the effect of runners/campers/exploiters because they can be ignored. A team can still win in spite of an opposing team using these "tactics". Defeating a HVT is a good bonus worth pursuing, but not essential to winning the match.

It will also create a more engaging experience than either the current system or TDM alone would. It will still encourage teamwork, but allow a team of competent randoms a fighting chance at winning a match. Each opponent defeated will actually count toward the ultimate objective of the game while working together to take down the HVT will make winning the match that much easier.

Runners/exploiters/campers effect on the game is minimized, steamrolls (ergo, many of the early quits) also minimized, objective play kept intact, and individual skill & teamwork are both rewarded because every defeat matters toward the end result. Seems like a win/win to me.

quenaelin · December 20, 2018 3:21PM

unit900000 wrote: »

there is potential for it to be even worse then it is now so hopefully thay dont botch this fingers crossed they do it right.

I am also not so very optimist about it, unless it is some different mode, Trooper Blast is getting tedious pretty soon, but in HvV Hunt mode there are some brainheads always inventing something different, running and camping and hiding and so on... fun and also very annoying puzzles = map glitches, that is what I call different and challenging gameplay. I hope HvV will stay interesting enough.

Kyloren421 · December 20, 2018 3:23PM

I hope this comes AFTER the lightsaber combat improvements, otherwise i wont be playing. Target system or not, the saber lock and stagger cant stay

[Edited]

Appl3corps · December 20, 2018 3:29PM

The High Value Target idea is interesting. I think only people spawning in should be eligible to be the HVT. That would help eliminate the issue we have now with the pending target getting killed, and suddenly a player who's actively being destroyed is suddenly the target with no way to prevent losing that point.

I know a lot people want a TDM mode....and I get it. For those of you advocating for it, how do YOU see it working? Or how would you have it work? Team sizes, points, rules, etc.....just interested to see what TDM means to each person, because I would bet it's a bit different person to person.

My main concern is team size. Blast is what....12 v 12? I think a 4 v 4 mode would be too small for HvV Blast. With the 05 BF2, did that hero mode allow doubles? Because I think that while silly, a 16 v 16 mode, with 2 of each hero allowed, would possibly help to prevent major steamrolls from happening. It would look a little silly, but it would promote a little bit of teamwork I think. Of course then you'd have the issues of double and quadruple stuns and stuff....so yeah...probably not a great idea.....maybe just 8 v 8 and go from there?

What are your ideas for how a TDM mode would work?

MyLittleGreenFriend · December 20, 2018 3:34PM

Appl3corps wrote: »

The High Value Target idea is interesting. I think only people spawning in should be eligible to be the HVT. That would help eliminate the issue we have now with the pending target getting killed, and suddenly a player who's actively being destroyed is suddenly the target with no way to prevent losing that point.

I know a lot people want a TDM mode....and I get it. For those of you advocating for it, how do YOU see it working? Or how would you have it work? Team sizes, points, rules, etc.....just interested to see what TDM means to each person, because I would bet it's a bit different person to person.

My main concern is team size. Blast is what....12 v 12? I think a 4 v 4 mode would be too small for HvV Blast. With the 05 BF2, did that hero mode allow doubles? Because I think that while silly, a 16 v 16 mode, with 2 of each hero allowed, would possibly help to prevent major steamrolls from happening. It would look a little silly, but it would promote a little bit of teamwork I think. Of course then you'd have the issues of double and quadruple stuns and stuff....so yeah...probably not a great idea.....maybe just 8 v 8 and go from there?

What are your ideas for how a TDM mode would work?

4v4, first to 50. Or 6v6 and first to 100.

MyLittleGreenFriend · December 20, 2018 3:35PM

MyLittleGreenFriend wrote: »

Appl3corps wrote: »

The High Value Target idea is interesting. I think only people spawning in should be eligible to be the HVT. That would help eliminate the issue we have now with the pending target getting killed, and suddenly a player who's actively being destroyed is suddenly the target with no way to prevent losing that point.

I know a lot people want a TDM mode....and I get it. For those of you advocating for it, how do YOU see it working? Or how would you have it work? Team sizes, points, rules, etc.....just interested to see what TDM means to each person, because I would bet it's a bit different person to person.

My main concern is team size. Blast is what....12 v 12? I think a 4 v 4 mode would be too small for HvV Blast. With the 05 BF2, did that hero mode allow doubles? Because I think that while silly, a 16 v 16 mode, with 2 of each hero allowed, would possibly help to prevent major steamrolls from happening. It would look a little silly, but it would promote a little bit of teamwork I think. Of course then you'd have the issues of double and quadruple stuns and stuff....so yeah...probably not a great idea.....maybe just 8 v 8 and go from there?

What are your ideas for how a TDM mode would work?

4v4, first to 50. Or 6v6 and first to 100.

Or maybe a timer of 10-15 minutes and whichever team has the most kills at the end wins.

Eat_da_PuePue · December 20, 2018 4:11PM

Appl3corps wrote: »

The High Value Target idea is interesting. I think only people spawning in should be eligible to be the HVT. That would help eliminate the issue we have now with the pending target getting killed, and suddenly a player who's actively being destroyed is suddenly the target with no way to prevent losing that point.

I know a lot people want a TDM mode....and I get it. For those of you advocating for it, how do YOU see it working? Or how would you have it work? Team sizes, points, rules, etc.....just interested to see what TDM means to each person, because I would bet it's a bit different person to person.

My main concern is team size. Blast is what....12 v 12? I think a 4 v 4 mode would be too small for HvV Blast. With the 05 BF2, did that hero mode allow doubles? Because I think that while silly, a 16 v 16 mode, with 2 of each hero allowed, would possibly help to prevent major steamrolls from happening. It would look a little silly, but it would promote a little bit of teamwork I think. Of course then you'd have the issues of double and quadruple stuns and stuff....so yeah...probably not a great idea.....maybe just 8 v 8 and go from there?

What are your ideas for how a TDM mode would work?

Yeah, they would need to put some parameters in place regarding when the HVTs were assigned to prevent HVTs in the middle of a battle from being reassigned and regular players being beat upon from suddenly being assigned as an HVT. I don't think there would always need to be a HVT assigned at all times throughout the match. It could trigger when a new player for each side spawns in within a certain number of seconds of each other. That way the HVT is assigned most of the time, but not necessarily the entire time.

CypressHorn · December 20, 2018 4:26PM

Appl3corps wrote: »

What are your ideas for how a TDM mode would work?

9 vs. 9 using certain phases of GA maps. 10 vs 10 when possible. 1st to 100 wins.

grimmace2 · December 20, 2018 4:36PM

It would be nice if they changed HvV to Hero Blast, they did the same thing for Hero Starfighters. That mode needs some work as well.

DICE looking into removing the target system.

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