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Bad game experience driven by constantly lowering the bar.

Captain_Guy
210 posts Member
edited January 10
I think this says it all. The troopers all pretty much trade kill only, unless you camp. I definitely want this to change before I care about new skins or heroes - whatever form that needs to take - just do something.
Post edited by Captain_Guy on

Replies

  • Relmets
    2444 posts Member
    When did you start playing this game out of curiosity
    [+3748 posts]
  • Captain_Guy
    210 posts Member
    edited January 10
    @t3hBar0n

    Speaking for what I’m seeing not so much experiencing first hand. I actually do quite well, but i consistently observe 80% of the team running in and getting killed point blank all day, instead of playing strategically. The weapons need more lethality IMO.

    We all know your on PC bro - that’s nice.

  • @t3hBar0n

    Speaking for what I’m seeing not so much experiencing first hand. I actually do quite well, but i consistently observe 80% of the team running in and getting killed point blank all day, instead of playing strategically. The weapons need more lethality IMO.

    We all know your on PC bro - that’s nice.

    Ok... but you just stated that troopers pretty much trade kills unless they camp... and now you say for 20% of players that isn't the case... If you agree that 20% of players in fact do not trade kills, then it is not an underlying mechanical problem, but rather a gameplay problem which apparently 20% of players have figured out...
  • bfloo
    15936 posts Member
    @t3hBar0n

    Speaking for what I’m seeing not so much experiencing first hand. I actually do quite well, but i consistently observe 80% of the team running in and getting killed point blank all day, instead of playing strategically. The weapons need more lethality IMO.

    We all know your on PC bro - that’s nice.

    80% of your team is getting massacred over and over and your solution is to make more lethal weapons?

    That is right up there with this communities 'The DS is op, nerf Chewie & Rey!' logic
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • Captain_Guy
    210 posts Member
    edited January 10
    Yep that’s correct. It is the 80% who are causing the need for nerfs and other things because there’s a bunch of trade killing which then drags down the troop counters. Usually the top 5 players on each side of the board ladder up to each other, and then a drop off on each side after this - excluding groups, exceptionally good/bad teams, other conditions.

    I get there are only so many assets/objectives in game for each team but the rate reinforcements go down in GA objectives when trooper counters are active is an issue with game play.

    There are two ways to fix it IMO - you make weapons deadlier to improve speed of gameplay, or you eliminate trooper counters so all players are not impacted by the really bad ones.

    Let me know what you think.
  • @bfloo whether you’re talking BF 2015 or 2017 the top five or so in each team are the ones that enable the other 75% to do the objective and have a good game. I don’t know why this is, and I’m not even saying I’m 💯 the top every time, but if you have good players weakening or taking out opponents it makes everyone else’s job easier.

    Big games still sort of work like small games in that way. So if you increase damage output for everyone I think ironically It could help game flow to take the poor players out more quickly. Reducing damage doesn’t prevent your team from being massacred either, it just means it happens slower.



  • bfloo
    15936 posts Member
    @bfloo whether you’re talking BF 2015 or 2017 the top five or so in each team are the ones that enable the other 75% to do the objective and have a good game. I don’t know why this is, and I’m not even saying I’m 💯 the top every time, but if you have good players weakening or taking out opponents it makes everyone else’s job easier.

    Big games still sort of work like small games in that way. So if you increase damage output for everyone I think ironically It could help game flow to take the poor players out more quickly. Reducing damage doesn’t prevent your team from being massacred either, it just means it happens slower.



    The damage rate is fine as is.

    These players tend to go the same way every time, and get killed by the same guy every time.

    I've watched people go down the same hallway 5 times and still wonder what they expected to be different.
    Watching dumb things team mates do is the best part of shooters these days

    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • If you increased the damage output all that would happen is those using more skill will be killing more quickly....but even in bf17 you can still take on 2/3 cqc with the current high ttk and come out alive. laming it all on the weaker players is poor....its your time to shine more and adapt to the lower damage output? That all said I find Bf17 sooooo slow compared to bf15
  • That all said I find Bf17 sooooo slow compared to bf15

    Right? Like why does this gameplay have to be so much slower than that one? It can be different by why does it need to be slower?*
  • Clone201
    3967 posts Member
    edited January 14
    That all said I find Bf17 sooooo slow compared to bf15

    Right? Like why does this gameplay have to be so much slower than that one? It can be different by why does it need to be slower?*

    Gunplay suffered a whole lot just to cater to star cards. Power weapons like the Vanguard and Infiltration (EE-4) are virtually incontestable by any primary-class weapon relative to their effective range, and using grenades / explosives spam, and various other abilities will always be so much better for starting almost any gunfight than from using your primary-class weapon, especially among multiple enemies you encounter at once.

    In addition, I think health buffs from Officers at least are just too much to overcome in this game. On top of slow average TTK standards, you also have a high likelihood of enemies coming in under a health buff, extending the 'already slow TTK' even more. And even if they're able to survive otherwise one-shot power weapons, encounters become too one-sided against players with the least amount of health.
    Man! Could this game get any more broken?
  • t3hBar0n wrote: »
    I think this says it all. The troopers all pretty much trade kill only, unless you camp. I definitely want this to change before I care about new skins or heroes - whatever form that needs to take - just do something.

    So much trade killing and camping going on...


    Oh wait, perhaps it is your own lack of ability leading to your propensity to trade kills.

    #heavythread
    cause everything you read on the internet is true...
  • What on earth is trade killing? I'm trying to work it out but I must admit I can't come up with anything remotely sensible, and I'm pretty sure it's not to do with discounts :wink:

    I feel so dumb already so please go easy on me. :smiley:

    pH
  • Clone201 wrote: »
    That all said I find Bf17 sooooo slow compared to bf15

    Right? Like why does this gameplay have to be so much slower than that one? It can be different by why does it need to be slower?*

    Gunplay suffered a whole lot just to cater to star cards. Power weapons like the Vanguard and Infiltration (EE-4) are virtually incontestable by any primary-class weapon relative to their effective range, and using grenades / explosives spam, and various other abilities will always be so much better for starting almost any gunfight than from using your primary-class weapon, especially among multiple enemies you encounter at once.

    In addition, I think health buffs from Officers at least are just too much to overcome in this game. On top of slow average TTK standards, you also have a high likelihood of enemies coming in under a health buff, extending the 'already slow TTK' even more. And even if they're able to survive otherwise one-shot power weapons, encounters become too one-sided against players with the least amount of health.

    My simplified assessment was that too many good BF15 players felt they were getting shot by noobs to often
  • Phyrebrat wrote: »
    What on earth is trade killing? I'm trying to work it out but I must admit I can't come up with anything remotely sensible, and I'm pretty sure it's not to do with discounts :wink:

    I feel so dumb already so please go easy on me. :smiley:

    pH

    You both shotting each other dead.
    You guys are gonna make me rich......
    Xbox G-tag
    XJO461
    That Specialist rework was disappointing.
    nceaq2h23fqj.png



  • Personally, I think most weapons need to be toned down if anything, or more life added. Personally, heros and villians should be tripled. Troops 50 to 75% increase....i know the complaint that is coming about it, but, you offset it by inserting a morale system by which if not within "x" feet of enemy you lose life-speed etc..specialists card could be made to offset morale to allow sniping if equiped..this games issue is not leathlity but rather low life of characters....if want to go on inxreasing leathlity of everything then lets just go to if you hit once your dead
  • bfloo wrote: »
    @bfloo whether you’re talking BF 2015 or 2017 the top five or so in each team are the ones that enable the other 75% to do the objective and have a good game. I don’t know why this is, and I’m not even saying I’m 💯 the top every time, but if you have good players weakening or taking out opponents it makes everyone else’s job easier.

    Big games still sort of work like small games in that way. So if you increase damage output for everyone I think ironically It could help game flow to take the poor players out more quickly. Reducing damage doesn’t prevent your team from being massacred either, it just means it happens slower.



    The damage rate is fine as is.

    These players tend to go the same way every time, and get killed by the same guy every time.

    I've watched people go down the same hallway 5 times and still wonder what they expected to be different.
    Watching dumb things team mates do is the best part of shooters these days

    The problem with going down the same hallway 5 times is that the game is designed at times to force you to do that, take kashyyyk phase 2 fot example, just how are the droids supposed to try take the turbo tanks that only have 2 entry points that are guarded by officers, heroes, wookies and sentry mode heavies

    Sometimes you need the troops to be expendable to try and wither down the defences, if everyone sits back the game doesn't progress

    That is a fault of the game design nothing else
  • bfloo
    15936 posts Member
    bfloo wrote: »
    @bfloo whether you’re talking BF 2015 or 2017 the top five or so in each team are the ones that enable the other 75% to do the objective and have a good game. I don’t know why this is, and I’m not even saying I’m 💯 the top every time, but if you have good players weakening or taking out opponents it makes everyone else’s job easier.

    Big games still sort of work like small games in that way. So if you increase damage output for everyone I think ironically It could help game flow to take the poor players out more quickly. Reducing damage doesn’t prevent your team from being massacred either, it just means it happens slower.



    The damage rate is fine as is.

    These players tend to go the same way every time, and get killed by the same guy every time.

    I've watched people go down the same hallway 5 times and still wonder what they expected to be different.
    Watching dumb things team mates do is the best part of shooters these days

    The problem with going down the same hallway 5 times is that the game is designed at times to force you to do that, take kashyyyk phase 2 fot example, just how are the droids supposed to try take the turbo tanks that only have 2 entry points that are guarded by officers, heroes, wookies and sentry mode heavies

    Sometimes you need the troops to be expendable to try and wither down the defences, if everyone sits back the game doesn't progress

    That is a fault of the game design nothing else

    I'll agree that the map design is generally awful in this game.

    But, these players know that door is guarded, and wont even toss a nade 1st, they just charge over and over, without any support.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    @bfloo whether you’re talking BF 2015 or 2017 the top five or so in each team are the ones that enable the other 75% to do the objective and have a good game. I don’t know why this is, and I’m not even saying I’m 💯 the top every time, but if you have good players weakening or taking out opponents it makes everyone else’s job easier.

    Big games still sort of work like small games in that way. So if you increase damage output for everyone I think ironically It could help game flow to take the poor players out more quickly. Reducing damage doesn’t prevent your team from being massacred either, it just means it happens slower.



    The damage rate is fine as is.

    These players tend to go the same way every time, and get killed by the same guy every time.

    I've watched people go down the same hallway 5 times and still wonder what they expected to be different.
    Watching dumb things team mates do is the best part of shooters these days

    The problem with going down the same hallway 5 times is that the game is designed at times to force you to do that, take kashyyyk phase 2 fot example, just how are the droids supposed to try take the turbo tanks that only have 2 entry points that are guarded by officers, heroes, wookies and sentry mode heavies

    Sometimes you need the troops to be expendable to try and wither down the defences, if everyone sits back the game doesn't progress

    That is a fault of the game design nothing else

    I'll agree that the map design is generally awful in this game.

    But, these players know that door is guarded, and wont even toss a nade 1st, they just charge over and over, without any support.

    Even tossing a rocket or ten in there makes no difference due to the way the inside is designed, same as naboo (not even angelina jolie could bend a bullet that good to get going in that hallway)

    Ive said it numerous times, having GA where only one side has objectives was narrowminded and gameplay restricing, even a party of 4 can defend a choke point in GA against a full opposing side of single players purely down to buffs, grenades, wookies and heroes

    Not even the smartest player can avoid that nonsense,
  • bfloo
    15936 posts Member
    bfloo wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    @bfloo whether you’re talking BF 2015 or 2017 the top five or so in each team are the ones that enable the other 75% to do the objective and have a good game. I don’t know why this is, and I’m not even saying I’m 💯 the top every time, but if you have good players weakening or taking out opponents it makes everyone else’s job easier.

    Big games still sort of work like small games in that way. So if you increase damage output for everyone I think ironically It could help game flow to take the poor players out more quickly. Reducing damage doesn’t prevent your team from being massacred either, it just means it happens slower.



    The damage rate is fine as is.

    These players tend to go the same way every time, and get killed by the same guy every time.

    I've watched people go down the same hallway 5 times and still wonder what they expected to be different.
    Watching dumb things team mates do is the best part of shooters these days

    The problem with going down the same hallway 5 times is that the game is designed at times to force you to do that, take kashyyyk phase 2 fot example, just how are the droids supposed to try take the turbo tanks that only have 2 entry points that are guarded by officers, heroes, wookies and sentry mode heavies

    Sometimes you need the troops to be expendable to try and wither down the defences, if everyone sits back the game doesn't progress

    That is a fault of the game design nothing else

    I'll agree that the map design is generally awful in this game.

    But, these players know that door is guarded, and wont even toss a nade 1st, they just charge over and over, without any support.

    Even tossing a rocket or ten in there makes no difference due to the way the inside is designed, same as naboo (not even angelina jolie could bend a bullet that good to get going in that hallway)

    Ive said it numerous times, having GA where only one side has objectives was narrowminded and gameplay restricing, even a party of 4 can defend a choke point in GA against a full opposing side of single players purely down to buffs, grenades, wookies and heroes

    Not even the smartest player can avoid that nonsense,

    When heroes attack and infantry actually support them, it is doable.

    It just rarely happens.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • GenxDarchi wrote: »
    Phyrebrat wrote: »
    What on earth is trade killing? I'm trying to work it out but I must admit I can't come up with anything remotely sensible, and I'm pretty sure it's not to do with discounts :wink:

    I feel so dumb already so please go easy on me. :smiley:

    pH

    You both shotting each other dead.

    Thanks! In retrospect feel so slow for not being able to work that out!!!

    pH
  • Phyrebrat wrote: »
    GenxDarchi wrote: »
    Phyrebrat wrote: »
    What on earth is trade killing? I'm trying to work it out but I must admit I can't come up with anything remotely sensible, and I'm pretty sure it's not to do with discounts :wink:

    I feel so dumb already so please go easy on me. :smiley:

    pH

    You both shotting each other dead.

    Thanks! In retrospect feel so slow for not being able to work that out!!!

    pH

    It can also mean you kill someone then someone on the other team immediately kills you because both sides are so bottlenecks or piled onto each other.

    Good question!
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