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Isn't Lando stun grenade effect too long?

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  • greedo1980 wrote: »
    If you run straight up to him, making no attempt to bait or LOS him with it, then yeh, I'm sure it will feel too long.

    And what is your strategy in avoiding it, oh Wise One?
  • greedo1980 wrote: »
    If you run straight up to him, making no attempt to bait or LOS him with it, then yeh, I'm sure it will feel too long.

    And what is your strategy in avoiding it, oh Wise One?

    You can flank him for starters.

    There's also:

    - waiting to see him throw and trigger the ability
    - catching him in cqc with objects that can avoid the disabler or make it harder for him to get shots off if stunned
    - you can even approach him straight on by moving cautiously and bait him into throwing it into an area you know you can avoid

    Instead of crying for nerfs bc you can't just wrecklessly go after a blaster hero with a saber user, why not learn how to actually use strategy.
  • Raylol
    1094 posts Member
    greedo1980 wrote: »
    If you run straight up to him, making no attempt to bait or LOS him with it, then yeh, I'm sure it will feel too long.

    And what is your strategy in avoiding it, oh Wise One?

    You can flank him for starters.

    There's also:

    - waiting to see him throw and trigger the ability
    - catching him in cqc with objects that can avoid the disabler or make it harder for him to get shots off if stunned
    - you can even approach him straight on by moving cautiously and bait him into throwing it into an area you know you can avoid

    Instead of crying for nerfs bc you can't just wrecklessly go after a blaster hero with a saber user, why not learn how to actually use strategy.

    when i was at new player Lando killer me every time, so it’s normal for newbies to be killed by him and cry for stupid nerfs, now that I’m advanced I basically do every you and Lando doesn’t even touch me. Jumping and using objects to cover you it so easy.
  • thelasteverjedi
    1510 posts Member
    edited February 2
    you can hear Lando coming from miles away.

    you know, heroes and villians talk to each other, and everybody hears their speech.

    and if you pay attention to the radar, you can also see him coming from miles away.
  • Why would you want to nerf this guy?
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  • Empire_TW wrote: »
    Why would you want to nerf this guy?
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    Because they want easy kills and checking minimap during gameplay is hard.
  • Lagodaki
    912 posts Member
    edited February 2

    Yes, it should take actual skill to use. I don’t want Lando to be a free kill for sabers, they can make his blaster deal more damage, buff the smoke grenade. Most people calling for a nerf don’t care about kills, It’s overpowered and needs be balanced.
    Post edited by Lagodaki on
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  • ZephanUnbound
    2415 posts Member
    edited February 2
    you can hear Lando coming from miles away.

    you know, heroes and villians talk to each other, and everybody hears their speech.

    and if you pay attention to the radar, you can also see him coming from miles away.

    People only show up on the radar if they fire a weapon. As for auditory clues, yes, they can help, but voice lines don't play on every encounter and some of the maps like Kamino have alot of ambient noise that disguises footsteps, and the sounds of battle disguise footsteps as well, you're simply not going to hear a Lando running up behind you in the middle of an intense saber duel. I'm sorry, but the stun just lasts too long right now, it is not balanced, it is overpowered and that is just not fun for anyone except some of the Lando mains.

    Now, I'm not a person who is a fan of nerfs generally speaking, I prefer the idea of buffing other characters to achieve balance over the idea of nerfing the OP characters, but sometimes nerfs are needed, as was the case with Iden's and Chewie's stun, and yes, Lando's stun needs it as well. That being said, I am most definitely not proposing nerfing him into the ground, if they simply shortened his stun duration and made no other changes Lando would go from top tier on the hero team all the way down to bottom tier alongside Finn. I want to see a properly balanced, well rounded Lando that is good in most situations instead of the current one trick pony Lando that relies mainly on a stun which lets him melt the face off of a single enemy, but then leaves him highly vulnerable to attacks by other villains for the next 22 seconds while disabler is on cooldown. I used to try and main Lando because he is one of my favorite characters but stopped because I just didn't find him fun to play the way he is designed currently. I simply would much rather see Lando deal more damage with his blaster (which is supposed to be a sniper blaster yet deals the lowest damage per shot of any primary blaster on the hero team) and have a smoke grenade that is useful in HvV, than I would see him remain a one trick stun pony. I want to be able to play Lando again without feeling like I'm a cheap loser for playing as him.
  • Guys is relatively simple, as others said just buff his smoke grenade to be useful at slower you enemy, and buff a little his gun, in thus way you can decrease considerably the effect of his stun.
  • DarthCapa2 wrote: »
    Guys is relatively simple, as others said just buff his smoke grenade to be useful at slower you enemy, and buff a little his gun, in thus way you can decrease considerably the effect of his stun.
    When the devs do that, tell me.
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  • DarthCapa2 wrote: »
    Guys is relatively simple, as others said just buff his smoke grenade to be useful at slower you enemy, and buff a little his gun, in thus way you can decrease considerably the effect of his stun.

    Kylo’s freeze is much worse than Lando’ stun. I think you all are forgetting that Lando’s stun will turn your entire minimap red when you come into its radius. When I see that happen to me, I start jumping, and I rarely get stunned doing this.
    Add more Extraction and SA maps please!

    What the ROADMAP should look like for 2019/2020:
    “Season” 4: Clone Wars Revival
    “Season” 5: Episode IX
    “Season” 6: Rogue One
  • I’d be all for a nerf to his stun if they like, compensated. His stun is a cheap move, granted, but it’s also a utility, like Han’s grenade, and the tradeoff for Lando’s really good stun is that he also gets a smoke bomb that does little. So if the devs limit the time that Lando’s stun takes effect, can we get some other skill based thing instead of 8 seconds of fog?
    I don't know what Battlefront II is.
  • Afrom3istwr
    900 posts Member
    edited February 3
    greedo1980 wrote: »
    If you run straight up to him, making no attempt to bait or LOS him with it, then yeh, I'm sure it will feel too long.

    And what is your strategy in avoiding it, oh Wise One?

    You can flank him for starters.

    There's also:

    - waiting to see him throw and trigger the ability
    - catching him in cqc with objects that can avoid the disabler or make it harder for him to get shots off if stunned
    - you can even approach him straight on by moving cautiously and bait him into throwing it into an area you know you can avoid

    Instead of crying for nerfs bc you can't just wrecklessly go after a blaster hero with a saber user, why not learn how to actually use strategy.

    You're forgetting the surprise attack factor, everything you listed is true but only useful if you see Lando coming. You're forgetting about how cheap it is to be engaging one enemy in a lightsaber duel for instance, then have a Lando spawn nearby and come upon your lightsaber duel from behind and stun you for 2 seconds while Lando and whoever you were dueling damage you freely. Let alone the fact that the spawn system is broken in HvV and sometimes an enemy such as Lando can spawn very close to you, giving him the element of surprise to stun you with impunity.

    I'm sorry, but no character in this game should have a stun that lasts as long as Lando's star card boosted disabler does, there's a reason why the stuns have basically been the 2nd most complained about thing in HvV after the target system since release, even by the top tier players. Iden and Chewie already had their stun durations nerfed and it is time for Lando to receive the same treatment. DICE just needs to make sure that he is buffed in other ways to compensate, such as boosting his damage per shot and making his smoke grenade more useful.

    That's a spawn/2v1 problem. Plus, any melee or aoe attack unstuns you. That's not a lando problem. In fact, that scenario can happen with any hero or villian that has a stun.

    As for the broke spawn system. I don't even play much HvV because it's a trash mode, but even I know that where most of the spawns are on each match. That can be avoided by just being aware of your surroundings and *gasp* staying close to teammates.

    As for the "balance" changes. Even if you up the damage and lower the stun, he's still going to unload massive damage and more than likely kill you if you are content on not learning how to attack him. Giving him damage on his smok also means he can now throw it at you for cheap points and assists in 2v1 situations, while also doing more damage at longer ranges. Those adjustments will only make him an even more annoying character for you guys.

    None of these complaints are moving the needle on why he's OP with a stun. He's not.
  • DarthCapa2 wrote: »
    Guys is relatively simple, as others said just buff his smoke grenade to be useful at slower you enemy, and buff a little his gun, in thus way you can decrease considerably the effect of his stun.

    Kylo’s freeze is much worse than Lando’ stun. I think you all are forgetting that Lando’s stun will turn your entire minimap red when you come into its radius. When I see that happen to me, I start jumping, and I rarely get stunned doing this.

    It also has an audio queue as well. Do they need to give you a big hud display in the center of your screen as well?
  • DarthCapa2 wrote: »
    Guys is relatively simple, as others said just buff his smoke grenade to be useful at slower you enemy, and buff a little his gun, in thus way you can decrease considerably the effect of his stun.

    Kylo’s freeze is much worse than Lando’ stun. I think you all are forgetting that Lando’s stun will turn your entire minimap red when you come into its radius. When I see that happen to me, I start jumping, and I rarely get stunned doing this.

    I already explain the difference, watch above. Anyway, if he receive some buff on other abilities they can decrease the duration of the stun.
  • ZephanUnbound
    2415 posts Member
    edited February 3
    greedo1980 wrote: »
    If you run straight up to him, making no attempt to bait or LOS him with it, then yeh, I'm sure it will feel too long.

    And what is your strategy in avoiding it, oh Wise One?

    You can flank him for starters.

    There's also:

    - waiting to see him throw and trigger the ability
    - catching him in cqc with objects that can avoid the disabler or make it harder for him to get shots off if stunned
    - you can even approach him straight on by moving cautiously and bait him into throwing it into an area you know you can avoid

    Instead of crying for nerfs bc you can't just wrecklessly go after a blaster hero with a saber user, why not learn how to actually use strategy.

    You're forgetting the surprise attack factor, everything you listed is true but only useful if you see Lando coming. You're forgetting about how cheap it is to be engaging one enemy in a lightsaber duel for instance, then have a Lando spawn nearby and come upon your lightsaber duel from behind and stun you for 2 seconds while Lando and whoever you were dueling damage you freely. Let alone the fact that the spawn system is broken in HvV and sometimes an enemy such as Lando can spawn very close to you, giving him the element of surprise to stun you with impunity.

    I'm sorry, but no character in this game should have a stun that lasts as long as Lando's star card boosted disabler does, there's a reason why the stuns have basically been the 2nd most complained about thing in HvV after the target system since release, even by the top tier players. Iden and Chewie already had their stun durations nerfed and it is time for Lando to receive the same treatment. DICE just needs to make sure that he is buffed in other ways to compensate, such as boosting his damage per shot and making his smoke grenade more useful.

    That's a spawn/2v1 problem. Plus, any melee or aoe attack unstuns you. That's not a lando problem. In fact, that scenario can happen with any hero or villian that has a stun.

    As for the broke spawn system. I don't even play much HvV because it's a trash mode, but even I know that where most of the spawns are on each match. That can be avoided by just being aware of your surroundings and *gasp* staying close to teammates.

    As for the "balance" changes. Even if you up the damage and lower the stun, he's still going to unload massive damage and more than likely kill you if you are content on not learning how to attack him. Giving him damage on his smok also means he can now throw it at you for cheap points and assists in 2v1 situations, while also doing more damage at longer ranges. Those adjustments will only make him an even more annoying character for you guys.

    None of these complaints are moving the needle on why he's OP with a stun. He's not.

    Yes, it can happen with any stun character, but Lando's disabler stuns you the 2nd longest in the game currently after Kylo's freeze, which both stun you for way too long. Good teams know not to break the effect with melee until after the duration is almost over or until the stunned target is nearly dead.

    The spawns are predictable to a degree, but that doesn't help if you need to chase a target into a spawn point heavy zone of the map.

    With a shorter stun but a bit more damage and a useful smoke grenade ability, he would be comparable to Iden currently, which is to say balanced as long as you are smart and know how to approach him head on (jumping or ducking behind cover when you see the disabler tossed out). A roughly 1 second stun like Iden's would not be enough to get a free kill from behind in the surprise attack situations even with the boosted damage per shot on his gun unless you were already low health, in which case you likely would have died anyway. It would definitely balance him, though Lando would no longer be able to get cheap free kills with his stun, the increased damage per shot on his gun would allow him to kill other people faster in normal situations (situations where his stun is on cooldown) and would especially be useful for dealing with saber mashers, and he'd be getting alot of assist and damage score from a damaging smoke grenade just like Boskk can with his dioxis grenade, and that is in addition to the proposed larger area of effect on the smoke grenade increasing the size of the area where saber lunges don't work against Lando or teammates. And all of that in addition to his 200 damage per enemy sharpshot, overall the most damaging ability in the game against multiple targets.

    As I mentioned in the other post, I don't want Lando changed just because he is annoying to go up against, in fact far more frequently than not I manage to kill enemy Lando's with the usual jumping tactic to prevent him from being able to get headshots during the stun, but there are occasional times when a Lando surprises me from behind and melts my face with headshots when I do get annoyed. I actually more so want Lando changed because he's just not fun to play as currently, it feels cheap to rely on a long duration stun as your main method of getting kills, and Lando is very vulnerable when his disabler is on cooldown due to his low damage output relative to Leia, Han, and Chewie, which just makes him not very fun to play as, especially since his smoke grenade is near useless currently in HvV. I want to be able to enjoy playing as Lando, he is one of my favorite characters.
  • Another solution: after 200 damages the character is free from all the stuns.
  • DarthCapa2 wrote: »
    Guys is relatively simple, as others said just buff his smoke grenade to be useful at slower you enemy, and buff a little his gun, in thus way you can decrease considerably the effect of his stun.

    Kylo’s freeze is much worse than Lando’ stun. I think you all are forgetting that Lando’s stun will turn your entire minimap red when you come into its radius. When I see that happen to me, I start jumping, and I rarely get stunned doing this.

    thanks learnt another thing!
  • The_Sith_Apprentice
    2541 posts Member
    edited February 4
    DarthCapa2 wrote: »
    Guys is relatively simple, as others said just buff his smoke grenade to be useful at slower you enemy, and buff a little his gun, in thus way you can decrease considerably the effect of his stun.

    Kylo’s freeze is much worse than Lando’ stun. I think you all are forgetting that Lando’s stun will turn your entire minimap red when you come into its radius. When I see that happen to me, I start jumping, and I rarely get stunned doing this.

    thanks learnt another thing!

    You’re welcome. As others have mentioned, getting behind cover is also a smart move.
    Add more Extraction and SA maps please!

    What the ROADMAP should look like for 2019/2020:
    “Season” 4: Clone Wars Revival
    “Season” 5: Episode IX
    “Season” 6: Rogue One
  • I don't understand what these naysayers are saying. Lando's stun is most definitely not fine. Insane stun duration with a card, range does not even need an upgrade, half the map is covered by the stun. It is UNAVOIDABLE. So it is most definitely not easy to avoid by definition. It is Impossible. Avoiding would be you dodge at the right time and stun has no effect. Or you block through it so it has no effect.

    Precious few things one can do to counter it. Hide behind an obstacle. Most of the time you will still get stunned, since throw and activation can be done quickly and arbitrarily and can often reach around to you anyway. Often times there is also nothing to hide behind. You can force jump. If they dont time it right, stun will be wasted in the air and it is impossible to get consecutive headshots on somebody falling. All lando has to do is wait for you to land, then stun. Also, oftentimes there is a roof. So jumping has little effect.

    Yes a beginner lando player can do insanely well. I have seen fresh single digit lvl landos dominate in HvV. He is that easy to use. Beginner landos are also easier to counter. But a veteran lando, there is nothing you can do against their stun. It will land-doh. Always.

    Ask yourself. How many times have you gone up against a lvl40 vet lando in HvV, and how far above they were on the leaderboard.

    Given how incredibly easy it is to land his stun, there is no reason whatsoever not to have a much shorter duration on it.
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