Having an argument with a friend about Reys character. Opinions?
I keep saying she is a bad character learning to use the force just because the plot needs her to in situations and being stronger than kylo. Rather than developing these abilities.
What does everyone else think?
What does everyone else think?
22
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I guess I would say that she is bad since I just don't care about her or what happens to her in 9.
Pirate of the Knights of Gareth
She had a great foundation in TFA but she's been so poorly developed she actually has no development
OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png
OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:
William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
Fighting wise: Good, but somehow already knows how to fight.
Character development bad: Movie 1, outflies First order pilots, then moves on to mind trick First Order trooper as first use of force, then outfights Crylo in 1v1 battle.
Theory which will be explained in ep.9
1. Rey is clone of luke ( through the hand cut off in bespin) and palps got hold of it and used to advantage. This would explain double mirror scene in TLJ.
2. Created by good ol palps. (Just like Anakin was) Now that Rey is at her training and easily influenced, that's why Palpatine is coming back into the picture with Thrawn.
2 could actually redeem her for me. I haven't forgotten how she used the Palps stabby stabby attack out of no where.
Pirate of the Knights of Gareth
I've wanted that theory because it fit so well. It could have been genuinely interesting and ripe full of all kinds of paths you could take
But nope
Even if they do something like that in the 3rd film there's not much time left to really develop that kind of revelation and the impact it should have on the character's personality and development
That's sort of the problem you get when you rush headlong into a trilogy without thinking ahead or planning anything
OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png
OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:
William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
She is too dangerous to be left alive!
I don't think JJ can pull it off, but it is all I have going into this mess.
Pirate of the Knights of Gareth
Considering JJ has been incapable of writing a satisfying conclusion to any of his stories, I have absolutely no faith in him.
JJ is a great visual director but he's a terrible writer. He has one thing going for him and that is his mystery box writing style. Even though his writing and world building may be un-developed, he puts so many hooks into the story you can't help but be interested in seeing where the story goes from there
And then of course you are inevitably disappointed when he can't follow through with any of it
OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png
OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:
William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
Considering JJ has been incapable of writing a satisfying conclusion to any of his stories, I have absolutely no faith in him.
JJ is a great visual director but he's a terrible writer. He has one thing going for him and that is his mystery box writing style. Even though his writing world building may be un-developed, he puts so many hooks into the story you can't help but be interested in seeing where the story goes from there
And then of course you are inevitably disappointed when he can't follow through with any of it, because he can't end a bloody story.
Considering the train wreck the ST has become it's only going to confound that even harder
OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png
OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:
William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
Anyways this not just a critique of Star Wars but modern Disney movies in general. I really hate how new films are just copies of previous art or they are the exact same thing but it’s way worse (life action remakes). Disney should take more risks on new things if they really want that money and Oscar.
I personally like her. She's not my favorite of the entire saga or this trilogy, but I do like her character as there are aspects I can relate to. She's just this generation's Luke Skywalker and I don't see any fault with that. Luke wasn't even my favorite growing up. He grew on me the most in my 25 years of being a Star Wars fan with TLJ.
I also don't believe she's THAT strong in the Force either. I mean, she has great potential, but everything we've seen appears to be nothing more than child's play compared with past movies and even TV series. Nothing that screams she's Legends level Luke or Starkiller. It's just "Oh hey, cool. She can do that." There are people who take on new things as if they've been practicing for years. Take a look at kids like Joey Alexander. Teenager with ADHD who is playing professional grade jazz charts with professional jazz musicians who've been at it for years. Shoot, look at just about any Asian child doing anything ever. Most of her prowess is mainly explained visually rather than verbally and I dig that kind of storytelling.
Overall I see it as an update in the technology being used as well. Like with her flying of the Falcon on Jakku. As cool as that was, it wasn't out smarting the Empire in an asteroid field cool. Han is still the best pilot for the Falcon and the visuals have progressed a lot since 1980 allowing for more creative flying shots. Notice how she doesn't even fly the Falcon that much in TLJ. It's Chewie who's flying and he's pulling of much more daring tactics on Crait.
I never really liked her to be honest. She seems a bit to be a convenient character.
I also feel like they kinda have dug a hole for themselves with the NR treatment. So if the New Republic is destroyed, which again makes no sense, galaxy-spanning government, not just a solar system, and the Resistance is pretty much non existent at the end of Last Jedi, where are we going with this? These "allies in the Outer Rim" better be huge because they way they made the First Order out to be, they are huge population wise. Anyways, thats my beef with the sequels, I feel it lacks creativity really, I mean Rey and Kylo are Jaina and Jacen with some alterations. As for my critique of Rey, poor character development.
And side note, @WodiQuix and I wrote a fanfiction story that makes the New Republic look a whole lot better, the link is in the post Creating your own BATTLEFRONT Immersion and Background story - BATTLEFRONT II
And now he felt her, really felt her in the Force; He felt a bond, deeper and more intimate than he’d ever had before; and for a precious eternal instant he was her. . .
he was the beat of her heart and he was the motion of her lips. He was her soft words as though she spoke a prayer to the stars—
I love you, Anakin. In life, and in death, we will always be one. I am yours
My Hero/Villain Concepts
Mace Windu/Sidious | Padme/Jango | Sabine/Rukh | Chirrut/IG-88 | Ahsoka/Ventress | Enfys Nest/Qi'ra/Tobias
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Not a subjective opinion
I don’t like Rey, I don’t have to like her
My main issue aswell, i feel like they went with resistance just to make a copy of the rebels which was a very poor decision. I could have at least overlooked the other similarities with the ot is they had the new republic army and not the resistance. It just doesnt make sense to me.
I would pile on the she is a bad character bandwagon but until we REALLY know her background I can’t quite go there.
The magical, I know how to fly through a super difficult maze of ship wreckage was enough to make me think nothing good will ever really come from her character though. I could sort of handle the fighting part since she grew up on a crappy planet on her own though. I would imagine growing up like that comes with an opportunity to learn how to protect yourself and Kylo wasn’t exactly at peak form when they first met.
I like Kylo’s character 1000 times more.
Here. Let me try to help your friend out.
I may be in the minority on these forums, but at least take a minute to look at it this way.
Those of you who are equating her character development with her ability to use the force are misunderstanding Rey’s character.
Rey is a character who comes from nothing, and has lived with the legends of the Star Wars universe. She scavenges the wreckage of the Galactic Civil War, barely scraping by since she was a child in a community of thieves. She has a feeling, deep inside her, that she is part of something larger. But this feeling seems like just a daydream on her barren desert planet.
But over the course of the two movies, as Rey goes on her journey, she realizes that her daydream may be real. That feeling of power she has always had is valid. And the skills she’s developed in the years of fending for herself and sorting through the inner workings of all these junk ships have incredible use.
The problem is that her intense longing to belong and her desperate need for guidance gets in her way. She relies on the approval of other people and can only see her own power through the prism of past legends. This leads her down a path of disappointment when Luke doesn’t live up to his own legend. And one of danger when she flirts with the dark side in her force-induced conversations with Kylo.
She is so scared to use her power to write her own story that she tries to place herself in other peoples legends.
Rey’s journey is that she must accept that she is a nobody and not a part of this cosmic drama of Skywalkers and Sith and Jedi. She must learn to use her enormous power to forge something new and create her own legend.
Daisy Ridley plays this gorgeously and in my opinion is one of the highlights of the entire Star Wars saga.
These sequels have definitely made some missteps and are far from perfect. But the depiction of force powers are not character development. They are just a tool to show the conflict of someone who is directionless and alone learning to come into their own.
‘nuff said.
Though isn't it funny how there seems to be a fair amount of overlap between the skill sets of piloting a starship and lightsaber dueling?
Just once, I want to see a badass Jedi who got his license revoked because he couldn't do a 3-point turn.
^Maximum the Hormone - Alien^
(Sorta like an insane Japanese SOAD, but w/ 3 vocalists and slap bass)
Gamertag: Billkwando PSN: Billkwando YouTube: Billkwando
Find me in HvV, pushing people off of stuff and watching them fall, like a cat.
Someone is scared of women.
Blabla whiny whiny st fu. Remember there are freaking babies that didnt learn sht yet and be moving object around with mind cause theyre so force sensitive.
1. Fix Split screen mode bugs
2. Fix bugs
3. Bigger play area for Duel mode
4. More love for Starfighter modes
5. First Person only mode
In IV, we see Luke go from driving a car (landspeeder) to getting shoved in a bar, to clumsily blocking blaster shots without seeing them. Then he plays Tarzan and is gunning down ships with the Falcon's guns, before jumping in an X-Wing for the first time and expertly dogfighting (when would he have done that on Tatooine?) and nailing the trench run.
Then in V we see him go from clumsily lopping the arm off a Wampa to holding his own against one of the greatest dueling Jedi of all time. Yes he got beat, but if you really think about it, there is NO WAY he should have been able to do anything against Vader. We never see him go through any lightsaber training in ANY way. He does more Tarzan impersonations and lifts rocks.
I'm not trying to say the OT movies were crap or anything like that, they are my favorites, grew up with them. But if you objectively look at them, they have just as poor character development as any other movie in the franchise. You think people were saying oh yeah, I totally see the struggle Luke went through and all this training when Empire came out?
Maybe it was easier then just to accept Star Wars as a fun film and form of escapism, instead of trying to dissect every little thing and declare if it makes sense or not. In reality, none of it makes sense. It's a fantasy story in a fantasy universe. It's fun, she's a fun character, they are fun movies that I enjoy watching, and I can't wait to see how Episode IX turns out.
Pirate of the Knights of Gareth
I know you are but what am i
True, but how did he beat him in VI? Where was his extensive training between Empire and Jedi? Or did Vader just let him win? And if Vader was toying with him and then let him win, how can you say Luke was ever really that great at all?
I'm being extreme but basically you tear apart any character because across all the movies, there are character flaws and plot holes. It seems like some people have become very selective at which ones they choose to ignore (or make excuses for) and which ones bug the life out of them.
It just is frustrating for me because a lot of the complaints being made against the new movies can be applied to any of the other 6, if you choose to. Also, nostalgia really colors our perception of the older movies. I can really see it with PT....they were decimated for years, and now it seems like there is a large contingent of fans that defend them, and sing their praises. Probably the generation that were kids when they were released (as I was when the OT came out). The people who are kids now, will look back on the ST with the same rose colored glasses.
What can you really expect from people who were born with no taste at all besides what is in their mouth?
Super Lame
OOM-9 Hero Concept by AzelfandQuilava
https://i.redd.it/uleh1g22xrhz.png
OOM-9 Canonical Material Check-List:
William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace: Star Wars Part the First
Ultimate Star Wars (Reference Guide)
Star Wars: On the Front Lines (Reference Guide)
Darth Maul: "Who is supervising the search for the Gungan cities?" Nute Gunray: "Commander OOM-Nine." Darth Maul: "A droid. The predecessor of your inept B-Ones." Rune Haako: "A superior droid, Lord Maul. Viceroy Gunray's personal guard."
https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/76756/the-oom-9-thread-9-9-the-phantom-droid/p1
But she IS more Mary Sue than anyone in this franchise. I'll just paste my post from other thread:
When it comes to Luke, he struggles much more than we think. He was beaten up by sand people - Obi Wan has to rescue him. He was attacked by criminal in Mos Eisley cantina- Obi Wan saves him again. Later he was saved by Solo, who cleared his six o'clock before he destroyed the Death Star. He would die without his help.
Empire Strikes Back - Solo rescues Luke again. Luke struggles with the Jedi training, Luke fails in the cave. Despite having pretty solid training (not prequel like, but still) he loses to Vader. He went to rescue his friends and ends up being the one who needs to be rescued.
ROTJ - Luke finally grows up, became badass Jedi and responsible human being. He is still not flawless, but embraces his weakneses, saves his father (and Vader/Anakin saves him) despite Yoda and Obi Wan telling him to kill his father, he goes his own way, succeeds and becomes a legend.
That is why everyone can relate to Luke. He struggles, he needs guidance, he fails and only then he finally grows to become something more. Rey is almost perfect from the beginning. She is self made, owns thugs, she escapes on her own, she fixes hyperdrive, she wins against experianced and talented force user despite having no training at all. She learns everything from Kylo's mind, uses mind tricks, she's amazing without reason. She may not be perfect, but she is very close to perfection from the very beginning.
I don't know what kind of messege they want to send to young people. You don't need to struggle, you don't need to train, just be a woman and everything is possible? I dunno.
And that's a shame cause she could be so much better. I really liked her during the first half of TFA. I was never prejudiced against female lead, nothing like that. She just turned out to be really bland, boring and it's difficult to relate to her even for kids, unless they can relate to someone only because she/he has the same genitals.
This tells me... things... about your perspective..
Another thing that could bring me back is if it turns out Snoke is a clone of Palpatine, hence the disfigurement due to the twisted force energy and he comes back as the villain he was touted to be in Episode 7
I predict ep. 9 will actually bring Palps back with a (probably with Thrawn) army of his own. You see, Kylo will not like this because due to the rule of two, Kylo was never a Sith. Therefore Palpatine and Kylo will fight each other. This will buy time for the resistance to build forces back up enough with their allies.
Then, Palpatine and Kylo will each be trying to convince Rey to join their side. Rey will go with Palpatine and become a Sith. During this war, Palpatine will actually see to it that the knights of ren will be killed. This will be when Kylo finally turns back to the light side, defeats Palpatine, kills Rey, and actually restores the galaxy to peace.
Throughout this time I imagine that the resistance would be a small (but effective) 3rd fighting force.
Now that would be an excellent movie.
This has been my critique so far as well. What would have made her more interesting is NOT as strong force wise and therefore having to rely on companions like BB8 and Finn for certain areas where she was not proficient. But no, a non trained force user is just magically able to use the force after being mind probed
Sabine Wren has Rey beat in the Mary Sue department.
Pirate of the Knights of Gareth
Of course we dont think he's mace windu... he's obviously the dreaded darth jar jar binks
Haha. Like, the people who are like “Rey cannot have performed that mind trick, she is a Mary Sue” are the same people who are like “yes, Maul got cut in half and fell down an endless abyss but now he has robot legs, so he’s all better.”
How so? Sabine trained her whole life to acquire her skills, as all Mandalorians do. Rey on the other hand is somehow good at everything she tries, even things she shouldn’t have been able to learn while being a simple scavenger on a backwater planet, like piloting a Starship and speaking Shyriwook despite no Wookiee’s living on Jakku. Then just hours after having the force awaken within her, she successfully mind tricks someone, something that took Luke years to master by comparison. Then she beats Kylo in a saber fight, a trained Dark Jedi with powerful Skywalker blood.
My Hero/Villain Concepts
Mace Windu/Sidious | Padme/Jango | Sabine/Rukh | Chirrut/IG-88 | Ahsoka/Ventress | Enfys Nest/Qi'ra/Tobias
Definitive Hero/Villain Skin Suggestion List
I have zero expectations for episode 9. I expect it to be worse than TLJ. Anything resembling a SW movie would be a bonus.