Who created the clone army?
My understanding is that sifo-dyas was a real Jedi at one point. Then he was murdered by dooku/tyrannus. Dooku then impersonated sifo-dyas when he placed the order for the army with the kaminoins and that was Sidious' plan from the beginning of episode 1. To position himself at the top of the republic rather separatists so his leadership would be far more secure than if the separatists had won and he was in charge.
Is that correct?
Is that correct?
1
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But what I said isn't too complicated and it's canon. It's simple but still genius and would be extremely difficult to pull off in reality. Imagine doing it with the American political system. Way easier said than done, yet still relatively simple.
Oh I was just going off the movies. I haven't watched all the CW. I kind of like it better though thinking that the kaminoins didn't know. Seems like a massive risk of Sidious and dooku to reveal their plans to an entire world. Just one republic sympathizer from kamino could of destroyed their entire plans. Not very well thought out storyline by the CW writers imo, and I think that's why the movies would of veered away from the kaminoins knowing about anything to do with the sith.
I think the Venators werethe influence. When the Empire arrived and the Clone Wars ended, its always been said Palpatine wanted a focus on the Navy to dominate the galaxy, and Star Destroyers were the main capital ships for the Navy. I basically see them as improved Venators
No I meant who made the first venators. I think venators is a model of star destroyer anyway. Like the clone army was made by palpatine and we know it's backstory. But who made the venators and when and how were they commissioned?
-Mk300mk
I think you mean Elon Musk. Jeff couldn't build a rocket that could even fly directly into mercury if it was 1 meter away and pointing straight at it.
-Mk300mk
He is good at making money and being a glorified mail man. However he is a far cry from being a well respected visionary. He's like the low end spectrum of visionary haha. That's why he's hardly the human that could be said to jokingly create star destroyers haha
Does that makes sense?
Well yes and no. It would make no sense to kill syfo dyas at all really. I mean as long as the army is being created and palpatine is still supreme chancellor at the time the clone wars starts. What's the point in killing him? Also why wouldn't the clones follow the orders of palpatine anyway? The kaminoans already said they are more dosile and easy to control than normal humans. So when their actual leader gives them an order, they will follow it. I mean even in the army right now if the president ordered the capture of high ranking generals or admirals, the troops that got the order would almost certainly follow through with it, and they haven't even been genetically altered to obey like the clones were.
Where did this plot line come from? CW?
Just seems like an unnecessarily convoluted plotline that was made up only for the sake of a storyline in the clone wars. There just really seems no need for the chip and it's as though the only reason the chip exists is so that the plotline that person above mentioned can exist, where palps and dooku kill sifo dyas and then the kaminoans can be a little villainous and interesting from a different point of view than they were in the movies.
Let's face it. The movie plotline flows way batter and is sneakier and more in line with how palpatine operated behind the scenes. It's just an all round better plan from a logical point of view as well. It provides palps with the lowest risk. He doesn't involve and entire planet in his plans. He still has the army made for the republic. Also the clones are very dosile and obedient warriors and would certainly follow their leaders orders similar to modern day soldiers, but with even more loyalty. Sifo dyas was just some random Jedi that dooku killed and then impersonated to get the army built. So palps never exposes himself and no one would be any wiser even if the clone army was uncovered sooner by the republic and the Jedi decided they would interrogate the kaminoans as to why the army was built. Because you can be sure that if an army was constructed by a world that is in the republic, and it wasn't needed in a time of war, then there would of been farrr more questions as to how it was made. Like imagine for the sake of this discussion that in 1940 there were no armies that existed except for the German army, but then out of nowhere America just gets the exact army we all know about in the real world today and it pops up into existence and they have it to do what they want with it. There would be shock and wonder, but the first course of action wouldn't be to launch an investigation into it, but rather use it to defeat Germany. However if that army appeared 10 years earlier, then the first thing to do would be to figure out where it came from.
Well I was only saying the CW storyline is all the weaker for it. The movies had the better idea imo. Also George Lucas hasn't always made the best choices with star wars every single time.
Yes soldiers have killed their own men. Look up "barrier troops" of the Soviet red army during World war 2. They shot many of their own soldiers that were attempting to desert during battle and detained thousands and thousands of them. Of the detained people about 10,000 were then executed. Just because the American army doesn't murder their own troops doesn't mean other armies haven't done throughout history. Now they did it for fleeing a battle. The Jedi however were accused of high treason by palpatine, therefore the republic itself accused them. If we followed what I said would of been a better storyline, being the genetic manipulation of their freewill (rather than installed microchips), then it's quite easy to believe they would murder the Jedi on sight, considering the Jedi have the abilities to escape if the clones had instead been ordered to capture them for trial.
Also I don't know why you said they had to come up with a reason for the clone brain wash. They literally said in the movies that they were genetically modified to be more dosile and accepting of commands. That was the original explaination in the movies. I personally saw that as enough because I imagined that a galactic republic that spanned thousands of world and had hyperdrive and could create hundreds of thousands of human clones would most likely also have the ability to alter the genetic codes of their clones to quite a high degree.
The microchips and palpatine and dooku getting involved with the kaminoans might be cannon. But like I said before, I think it's a worse storyline than what the movies implied happened where palps and dooku never got involved with the kaminoans beyond the the sifo dyas impersonation.
I know. That's why I mentioned things other armies have done, because the clones aren't American haha
That's American cultural influence talking for sure haha
Yeah but I'm saying if there was no war going on. Only then would they be forced to reveal or get to the bottom of where the clone army came from. But there was a war, so it was put aside in the meantime. However it never got to a point where the Jedi were in charge as there was no war going on. So there was never any time that the public would or could of demanded to know where the army came from. By the time peace came around, palps was already in charge and a dictator. So no one would of pushed him too hard to find out where they came from.
I still just don't see why that couldn't be achieved through genetic manipulation. The human brain is just a biological computer.
I mean is there even any mention of a cover story for what these chips are for in case they found?
It is implied that the Kaminoans provided them. They armed and trained the GAR. As no one knew they were even being built, you couldn't have republic foundries going crazy building them.
The Clone army was actually started by Darth Plaigeus, not Palps.
Pirate of the Knights of Gareth
How could it ever of been started by plaigeus if dooku was the one who placed the order with the kaminoans? There can only be 2 sith and the order was placed after episode 1 because dooku was then palps apprentice. Plaigeus would of had to of died before episode 1, which was obviously when palps and maul were a team and palps had already killed plaigeus by that point.
Sifo Dyas placed the actual order.
I don't recall them ever explaining how Tyrranus became the main contact. Someone might know.
Palps killed Plaegis during TPM, right before he became chancellor.
Pirate of the Knights of Gareth
Jango Fett says it himself in episode 2. He says "I was recruited by a man called tyrannus on one of the moon's of bogda" when he's speaking to obi-wan about how he got the job as being the source DNA for the clones. This means dooku was there at the creation of the clone army at the start and it always felt like to me that dooku was the one who murdered sifo-dyas and impersonated him to the kaminoans.
Because the obi-wan said sifo-dyas was murdered. So we can assume he never actually went just "missing". So who's the only people around that we know of who are closely involved in all of these actions that sifo-dyas supposedly set up with the kaminoans, and who are also capable of killing a Jedi and have motive so far as we know? Only the Sith.
The Pyke Syndicate admitted to killing Sifo Dyas. I don't recall all of the details.
Pirate of the Knights of Gareth
Who are the Pyke syndicate? Were they aligned with the Sith?
The Pykes were the ones on Kessel in Swolo.
They also appear in at least 2 arcs of cw. I know they are in the Maul season, someone in here knows which arc they were in where Sifo Dyas was mentioned, it was in the last season I think.
I wasn't a huge fan of the show, but the arc was pretty good. Maul Season was the highlight.
Pirate of the Knights of Gareth
Plaigues died right when maul got his legs cut off. I read it in the darth plaigeus book and on wookieepedia, palpatine put poison in his drink, that made plaigeus fall asleep and then palpatine used his lightsaber to slash at plaigeu's breathing apparatus and then stabbed him, then he died, palpatine felt that maul was defeated right before he killed plaigeus, plaigeus gave palpatine the initial order for the clone army, then palpatine seduced syfo-dias, after that he kept his eye on dooku in hopes of making him his next apprentice. You do know that palpatine kinda changed the way of the sith like for instance vader with his inquisitors, palpatine with dooku & ventress she was dooku's apprentice, all these apprentices were counted more like extenders of palpatines power but they were still apprentices.
The Sith worked in secret from day 1 under Darth Bane and Darth Zannah. Bane knew open conflict was a war the Sith would never win, because they always turn on each other. They both took on apprentices with the intent of knocking off the other one.
Palps killed Plaegus with lightning after he got him drunk, just kind of on a whim, in violation of the Rule of Two. His lightsaber was already hidden in a statue to be moved to his new apartment/ office. Plaegues did the same to his Master, attacking from behind, instead of in direct combat per the Rules under Bane.
Pirate of the Knights of Gareth