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Remove the arial reinforcement class and give abilities to base infantry

Lyc4n
1737 posts Member
Hear me out. The point of the assault class is to be more mobile than other classes.

The arial reinforcement has a bit more health, two mobility abilities and an rpg along with having a weapon from the assault or heavy class (most of the time)

Why not just get rid of the arial class and fit these abilities around classes. Give the jetpack ability to the assault class and give the rpg to the heavy class, increase its damage against vehicles.

This would probably push more players to play as assault a lot more and make at least one of the base 4 classes a lot more interesting. As well as adding a lot more variation to the loadout of an arial trooper.

Replies

  • Lyc4n
    1737 posts Member
    Rinku wrote: »
    Might as well also add Bacta so we can Bacta spam again, lol.

    Medic class could be good
  • Not a bad idea really. You would have a boat ton of assault though. But heavies with a rocket would be a good counter. So it kind of works
  • Agree @tankertoad, you would have a ton of Assaults, me being one of them. I love jetpacks personally for obvious reasons. I think more people like then than not to be honest for the speed and mobility.
  • Jet packs were fun though. And when I got serious about wanting to be a better shooter I forgo the back pack for other things.
  • Lyc4n
    1737 posts Member
    Agree @tankertoad, you would have a ton of Assaults, me being one of them. I love jetpacks personally for obvious reasons. I think more people like then than not to be honest for the speed and mobility.

    What about if this ability replaced the vanguard and speed boost, would be a big trade off for the class many people wouldnt do it. Plus it would only be one jetpack ability instead of 2 on a longer cooldown it could make players really debate if its worth carrying. Many less jet troopers than last game
  • Lyc4n
    1737 posts Member
    Relmets wrote: »
    Reinforcements should never have been a thing. If they wanted to add aerials, enforcers, and infiltrators then they should have been additional classes balanced around the other 4

    It's too far gone now anyways


    I agree and disagree, i think reinforcements should have been saved for the ones that really do need their own thing because of power level or mechanics eg commandos droidekas, wookies, however many to not say most reinforcements could have just been a skin for a class.
  • Relmets wrote: »
    Reinforcements should never have been a thing. If they wanted to add aerials, enforcers, and infiltrators then they should have been additional classes balanced around the other 4

    It's too far gone now anyways

    so true. or, they should just get rid of troopers altogether. lol. Theres little point to play them in a sense.
  • I used jet packs all the time in BF’15, but do not want to see them return to base classes. It’s all everyone would use.
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  • Lyc4n
    1737 posts Member
    Piscettios wrote: »
    I used jet packs all the time in BF’15, but do not want to see them return to base classes. It’s all everyone would use.

    It would only be part of the assault class and would substitute the vanguard ability
  • Relmets wrote: »
    Reinforcements should never have been a thing. If they wanted to add aerials, enforcers, and infiltrators then they should have been additional classes balanced around the other 4

    It's too far gone now anyways

    Holy Batman, it’s about time you showed back up, was beginning to think you were waiting for bf3 to release, which is probably the better idea lol. Good to have ya back homie.
  • No please, it's horrible all people with jet pack.

    1bfioawlu399.png
  • Lyc4n wrote: »
    Relmets wrote: »
    Reinforcements should never have been a thing. If they wanted to add aerials, enforcers, and infiltrators then they should have been additional classes balanced around the other 4

    It's too far gone now anyways


    I agree and disagree, i think reinforcements should have been saved for the ones that really do need their own thing because of power level or mechanics eg commandos droidekas, wookies, however many to not say most reinforcements could have just been a skin for a class.

    You can make them unique without separating them into another tier. They could have been more niche classes that excelled specifically in certain categories and had other drawbacks. Instead we have units that are flat out stronger. B2s/Death troopers/most aerials/etc. Try playing a mode like blast exclusively as a trooper vs a team of decently skilled players who can spam reinforcements.


    tankertoad wrote: »
    Relmets wrote: »
    Reinforcements should never have been a thing. If they wanted to add aerials, enforcers, and infiltrators then they should have been additional classes balanced around the other 4

    It's too far gone now anyways

    so true. or, they should just get rid of troopers altogether. lol. Theres little point to play them in a sense.

    Just wish they would rework a single small mode to be a base-4 trooper only mode. Ideally blast. Small modes should have been reinforcement-less in conjunction with the GA/CS boots on the ground event at the very least, to gauge interest.
    Relmets wrote: »
    Reinforcements should never have been a thing. If they wanted to add aerials, enforcers, and infiltrators then they should have been additional classes balanced around the other 4

    It's too far gone now anyways

    Holy Batman, it’s about time you showed back up, was beginning to think you were waiting for bf3 to release, which is probably the better idea lol. Good to have ya back homie.

    Missed you too friendo
    i1b4ipp3t3oc.gif
    [+3748 posts]
  • Leave ariel as a standalone class but replace the rocket with a primary weapon overload that doesnt auto kill.
    That or remove ability to fire the rocket in the air.
  • The problem i have with areial, is the clone jet trooper, his blaster is way too OP. I would keep the areial unit in the game but i think that they should use their intended rockets, like the clone jet trooper has three jetpack rockets, and yet pulls out a random rocket launcher, so i would keep the rocket launcher on some of the areial units, like the rebel jump trooper should keep the rocket launcher, and so should the resistance areial, but the clone jet trooper should use its intended jetpack rockets, like the B2 rocket droid uses its intended wrist rocket, and doesn't pull out a random rocket launcher, unlike the clone jet trooper.
    Ahsoka for Battlefront 2.

    Kanan Jarrus for Battlefront 2.


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    Kanan is more of your cool kinda Jedi... not so weird/wise as most of the Jedi were like on the council. Kanan also owned a cantina at some point before he met Hera.
  • Relmets wrote: »
    Reinforcements should never have been a thing. If they wanted to add aerials, enforcers, and infiltrators then they should have been additional classes balanced around the other 4

    It's too far gone now anyways
    Relmets wrote: »
    Reinforcements should never have been a thing. If they wanted to add aerials, enforcers, and infiltrators then they should have been additional classes balanced around the other 4

    It's too far gone now anyways

    Preach. And even if they were to be stronger, a barely stronger approach should have been the choice. Maybe 50 more hp with comparable weapons, but unique abilities.

    But still, more base classes to choose from is a better idea. The BP system is just a bad idea.
  • Oh my. What an idea. Instead of reinforcements being tier 2 they could just be another character selection. Either by reducing their strength or buffing up troopers. So then you have 4 classes plus maybe 3/4 reinforcements. And you could put things on regular troopers to make them appealing.

    I imagine a lot of people would want to pick an aerial , for example , but you make them not as viable offensively since they are viable defensively.

    It would require a whole lot of balancing and adjustments but I think it could be done and it would be pretty cool.
  • It's fine as is.
  • tankertoad wrote: »
    Oh my. What an idea. Instead of reinforcements being tier 2 they could just be another character selection. Either by reducing their strength or buffing up troopers. So then you have 4 classes plus maybe 3/4 reinforcements. And you could put things on regular troopers to make them appealing.

    I imagine a lot of people would want to pick an aerial , for example , but you make them not as viable offensively since they are viable defensively.

    It would require a whole lot of balancing and adjustments but I think it could be done and it would be pretty cool.

    This is what i mean with roles, not just for reinforcements. I think reinforcements should have stayed as more of a niche and half of them should have just been more customisation onto normal troopers.
  • Lyc4n wrote: »
    tankertoad wrote: »
    Oh my. What an idea. Instead of reinforcements being tier 2 they could just be another character selection. Either by reducing their strength or buffing up troopers. So then you have 4 classes plus maybe 3/4 reinforcements. And you could put things on regular troopers to make them appealing.

    I imagine a lot of people would want to pick an aerial , for example , but you make them not as viable offensively since they are viable defensively.

    It would require a whole lot of balancing and adjustments but I think it could be done and it would be pretty cool.

    This is what i mean with roles, not just for reinforcements. I think reinforcements should have stayed as more of a niche and half of them should have just been more customisation onto normal troopers.

    Like it and agree
  • Piscettios wrote: »
    I used jet packs all the time in BF’15, but do not want to see them return to base classes. It’s all everyone would use.

    This. Jet packs everywhere in BF15. IMO the worst part of the game. Jetpack cargo was bad enough please, please don’t turn the game into jetpack central.

    They are a reinforcement option and think that is fine.

  • Droidekas and clone commandos would feel a lot more important this way, vehicles spawning on map, then have the other reinforcements as skins. If the arf trooper can be a skin so can jet troopers and arc troopers as well as super battle droids

    Or what ive been saying for a while is instead of tsking away from the reinforcements, just add value to base classes. Make the abilities on the base classes a lot more impactfull.
  • Relmets wrote: »
    Reinforcements should never have been a thing. If they wanted to add aerials, enforcers, and infiltrators then they should have been additional classes balanced around the other 4

    It's too far gone now anyways
    Relmets wrote: »
    Reinforcements should never have been a thing. If they wanted to add aerials, enforcers, and infiltrators then they should have been additional classes balanced around the other 4

    It's too far gone now anyways

    Preach. And even if they were to be stronger, a barely stronger approach should have been the choice. Maybe 50 more hp with comparable weapons, but unique abilities.

    But still, more base classes to choose from is a better idea. The BP system is just a bad idea.
    tankertoad wrote: »
    Oh my. What an idea. Instead of reinforcements being tier 2 they could just be another character selection. Either by reducing their strength or buffing up troopers. So then you have 4 classes plus maybe 3/4 reinforcements. And you could put things on regular troopers to make them appealing.

    I imagine a lot of people would want to pick an aerial , for example , but you make them not as viable offensively since they are viable defensively.

    It would require a whole lot of balancing and adjustments but I think it could be done and it would be pretty cool.

    Wasted gameplay potential sadly. Integrating tiered units beyond heroes was a bad choice.
    [+3748 posts]
  • So replace Sentry with a jetpack on a heavy with all that health, TL50, impact grenade and a shield? LOL
    xJENARIx on XBOX and PS4
  • Relmets wrote: »
    Reinforcements should never have been a thing. If they wanted to add aerials, enforcers, and infiltrators then they should have been additional classes balanced around the other 4

    It's too far gone now anyways

    Well I’m sure that opinion is coming from someone that doesn’t play the large scale modes. As someone that plays the large scale modes with heroes they are EXCELLENT counters to heroes if you don’t like vehicles. I would even dare say they make the games more fun with their uniqueness. And please tell me they aren’t fair for troopers....

    But we all have our opinions 🤷🏻‍♂️

  • Well I’m sure that opinion is coming from someone that doesn’t play the large scale modes. As someone that plays the large scale modes with heroes they are EXCELLENT counters to heroes if you don’t like vehicles.

    No I play the large modes and I still think they would have been better as additional base classes

    I would even dare say they make the games more fun with their uniqueness.

    for me power level =/= uniqueness
    And please tell me they aren’t fair for troopers....
    what do you mean
    [+3748 posts]
  • Relmets wrote: »

    Well I’m sure that opinion is coming from someone that doesn’t play the large scale modes. As someone that plays the large scale modes with heroes they are EXCELLENT counters to heroes if you don’t like vehicles.

    No I play the large modes and I still think they would have been better as additional base classes

    I would even dare say they make the games more fun with their uniqueness.

    for me power level =/= uniqueness
    And please tell me they aren’t fair for troopers....
    what do you mean

    I meant to say please *dont* tell me they aren’t fair against troopers.

    Okay well if they had the same power level as troopers then they wouldn’t be as effective against heroes. That doesn’t make sense without a rework of heroes or all the troopers and it’s quite late for all of that. I get “Star Wars” lore shouldn’t be taken in account but that’s the whole point of these units, they’re better than the “grunts” mainline troopers. That’s the appeal for them. Troopers still have clear ways to deal with them, and it encourages people to use something other than the base 4 classes, some people like variety.

    There are power level discrepancies between the base 4 classes yet those don’t get brought up? The reinforcement power level is hardly an issue to bring up imo
  • I meant to say please *dont* tell me they aren’t fair against troopers.

    They're stronger than troopers, that's the point of tiered units. What's fair is subjective because given that the intention is for them to be stronger, someone can't necessarily claim it's unbalanced. What I'm saying is what I would have preferred to see. I'm not expecting any sort of overhaul at this stage of the game.

    Unless what you mean is that you're one of these guys who's gonna tell me that a Base-4 trooper can go toe to toe with a Death Trooper/B2/etc. and consistently come out on top, assuming equal skill


    Okay well if they had the same power level as troopers then they wouldn’t be as effective against heroes.

    I don't see this as an issue, I think troopers are capable against heroes. From a gameplay standpoint the benefit of reinforcements being more of a threat to heroes doesn't outweigh the drawback of them outclassing troopers
    I get “Star Wars” lore shouldn’t be taken in account but that’s the whole point of these units, they’re better than the “grunts” mainline troopers. That’s the appeal for them.
    So you're saying lore shouldn't be taken into account but then you're justifying it with an appeal to lore, unless I'm reading this wrong?
    Troopers still have clear ways to deal with them

    Yeah troopers can deal with them but they have less room for error comparatively when engaging reinforcements than vice versa, because of the inherent advantages that the reinforcements have. This is what tiered-unit gameplay is, I'm simply stating that I think a more level playing field would have promoted better gameplay.
    and it encourages people to use something other than the base 4 classes, some people like variety.
    Had the reinforcement units been designed as additional classes there would have been arguably more variety. Again power level variation is a lame way to create "variety" or "uniqueness"

    There are power level discrepancies between the base 4 classes yet those don’t get brought up?

    I mainly play blast and I don't really know what discrepancies you're talking about, I haven't seen one particular trooper class dominate. I've come across super skilled players among all 4 of the classes. The only thing that might be questionable is heavy's extra HP but you can argue that it's fair since he doesn't have a recovery or health-focused ability on par with the other classes (tuffenup, battle command, personal shield which defensively speaking is better than the combat shield).

    Now these things probably do manifest themselves more severely in the small modes compared to the large modes, but fundamentally tiered unit gameplay is the same across the board. And considering that this style of gameplay is the core of BF17, being present in most modes (and all "trooper" modes, to varying degress), I'm speaking about the game as a whole.

    nykk3zkjb9o8.gif
    [+3748 posts]
  • So replace Sentry with a jetpack on a heavy with all that health, TL50, impact grenade and a shield? LOL

    No the jet pack is only for assault and the rpg is for the heavy
  • Lyc4n wrote: »
    Hear me out. The point of the assault class is to be more mobile than other classes.

    The arial reinforcement has a bit more health, two mobility abilities and an rpg along with having a weapon from the assault or heavy class (most of the time)

    Why not just get rid of the arial class and fit these abilities around classes. Give the jetpack ability to the assault class and give the rpg to the heavy class, increase its damage against vehicles.

    This would probably push more players to play as assault a lot more and make at least one of the base 4 classes a lot more interesting. As well as adding a lot more variation to the loadout of an arial trooper.

    Jetpack spam was unpopular during BF1.
  • Ppong_Man12
    3026 posts Member
    edited September 2019
    Alwe15 wrote: »
    Lyc4n wrote: »
    Hear me out. The point of the assault class is to be more mobile than other classes.

    The arial reinforcement has a bit more health, two mobility abilities and an rpg along with having a weapon from the assault or heavy class (most of the time)

    Why not just get rid of the arial class and fit these abilities around classes. Give the jetpack ability to the assault class and give the rpg to the heavy class, increase its damage against vehicles.

    This would probably push more players to play as assault a lot more and make at least one of the base 4 classes a lot more interesting. As well as adding a lot more variation to the loadout of an arial trooper.

    Jetpack spam was unpopular during BF1.

    I think it was very popular, from my experience it was unpopular with bad players, otherwise everyone I played with loved it save 1 or 2 guys.

    I understand a few hated jetpacks because of immersion and that’s fine, but otherwise most guys I knew that hated jetpacks hated them for the fact they couldn’t keep up with the added speed and mobility they provided and aim needed to be efficient.

    It’s the same reason many hero mains hate vehicles or anything that’s a threat to them in this game. Again that’s my experience, the jetpack added a speed factor and made an additional level of the map playable. Honestly, what great player wouldn’t want the added mobility and versatility of a jet pack.
  • Lyc4n
    1737 posts Member
    Alwe15 wrote: »
    Lyc4n wrote: »
    Hear me out. The point of the assault class is to be more mobile than other classes.

    The arial reinforcement has a bit more health, two mobility abilities and an rpg along with having a weapon from the assault or heavy class (most of the time)

    Why not just get rid of the arial class and fit these abilities around classes. Give the jetpack ability to the assault class and give the rpg to the heavy class, increase its damage against vehicles.

    This would probably push more players to play as assault a lot more and make at least one of the base 4 classes a lot more interesting. As well as adding a lot more variation to the loadout of an arial trooper.

    Jetpack spam was unpopular during BF1.

    I think it was very popular, from my experience it was unpopular with bad players, otherwise everyone I played with loved it save 1 or 2 guys.

    I understand a few hated jetpacks because of immersion and that’s fine, but otherwise most guys I knew that hated jetpacks hated them for the fact they couldn’t keep up with the added speed and mobility they provided and aim needed to be efficient.

    It’s the same reason many hero mains hate vehicles or anything that’s a threat to them in this game. Again that’s my experience, the jetpack added a speed factor and made an additional level of the map playable. Honestly, what great player wouldn’t want the added mobility and versatility of a jet pack.

    I wouldnt want it spammed, ide want it so people actually debate wether its worth using, giv it a long cooldown and only the virticle use.
  • Alwe15 wrote: »
    Lyc4n wrote: »
    Hear me out. The point of the assault class is to be more mobile than other classes.

    The arial reinforcement has a bit more health, two mobility abilities and an rpg along with having a weapon from the assault or heavy class (most of the time)

    Why not just get rid of the arial class and fit these abilities around classes. Give the jetpack ability to the assault class and give the rpg to the heavy class, increase its damage against vehicles.

    This would probably push more players to play as assault a lot more and make at least one of the base 4 classes a lot more interesting. As well as adding a lot more variation to the loadout of an arial trooper.

    Jetpack spam was unpopular during BF1.

    I think it was very popular, from my experience it was unpopular with bad players, otherwise everyone I played with loved it save 1 or 2 guys.

    I understand a few hated jetpacks because of immersion and that’s fine, but otherwise most guys I knew that hated jetpacks hated them for the fact they couldn’t keep up with the added speed and mobility they provided and aim needed to be efficient.

    It’s the same reason many hero mains hate vehicles or anything that’s a threat to them in this game. Again that’s my experience, the jetpack added a speed factor and made an additional level of the map playable. Honestly, what great player wouldn’t want the added mobility and versatility of a jet pack.

    In my experience, it was a "can't beat them, join them" so everyone ended up packing it and the whole game felt like some ridiculous jet pack joyride without coin collection.

    I was part of the resistance however, refused to conform and was most certainly not "bad". Could nail one of those suckers in the head as they took to the air. 😂
  • I agree, it made no sense not to use them being everyone else was, the lack of mobility put you at a big disadvantage. I think what also made it more annoying was the fact most used shield/bacta/bg in conjunction with it, therefore it become the ultimate bailout. Really the only mode I couldn’t live without JP’s would probably be dropzone, which we don’t have anyway, but I couldn’t imagine playing without them in that mode.
  • Relmets wrote: »
    I meant to say please *dont* tell me they aren’t fair against troopers.

    They're stronger than troopers, that's the point of tiered units. What's fair is subjective because given that the intention is for them to be stronger, someone can't necessarily claim it's unbalanced. What I'm saying is what I would have preferred to see. I'm not expecting any sort of overhaul at this stage of the game.

    Unless what you mean is that you're one of these guys who's gonna tell me that a Base-4 trooper can go toe to toe with a Death Trooper/B2/etc. and consistently come out on top, assuming equal skill


    Okay well if they had the same power level as troopers then they wouldn’t be as effective against heroes.

    I don't see this as an issue, I think troopers are capable against heroes. From a gameplay standpoint the benefit of reinforcements being more of a threat to heroes doesn't outweigh the drawback of them outclassing troopers
    I get “Star Wars” lore shouldn’t be taken in account but that’s the whole point of these units, they’re better than the “grunts” mainline troopers. That’s the appeal for them.
    So you're saying lore shouldn't be taken into account but then you're justifying it with an appeal to lore, unless I'm reading this wrong?
    Troopers still have clear ways to deal with them

    Yeah troopers can deal with them but they have less room for error comparatively when engaging reinforcements than vice versa, because of the inherent advantages that the reinforcements have. This is what tiered-unit gameplay is, I'm simply stating that I think a more level playing field would have promoted better gameplay.
    and it encourages people to use something other than the base 4 classes, some people like variety.
    Had the reinforcement units been designed as additional classes there would have been arguably more variety. Again power level variation is a lame way to create "variety" or "uniqueness"

    There are power level discrepancies between the base 4 classes yet those don’t get brought up?

    I mainly play blast and I don't really know what discrepancies you're talking about, I haven't seen one particular trooper class dominate. I've come across super skilled players among all 4 of the classes. The only thing that might be questionable is heavy's extra HP but you can argue that it's fair since he doesn't have a recovery or health-focused ability on par with the other classes (tuffenup, battle command, personal shield which defensively speaking is better than the combat shield).

    Now these things probably do manifest themselves more severely in the small modes compared to the large modes, but fundamentally tiered unit gameplay is the same across the board. And considering that this style of gameplay is the core of BF17, being present in most modes (and all "trooper" modes, to varying degress), I'm speaking about the game as a whole.

    nykk3zkjb9o8.gif

    So Troopers can’t go toe to toe with reinforcements consistently but they are “fine” against heroes? I can’t buy that. How many people are on these forums complaining daily about heroes “ruining” their trooper play? Doesn’t make sense. With equal skill you’re saying that the trooper and hero, of equal skill, could split kills but not with reinforcements? That’s silly.

    Star Wars lore shouldn’t always taken as the final verdict, but this game tends to make it a big driven point. They said the battles are “cannon” and if that’s true then these units that were “more important” than the grunts would be backed up. Troopers were no match for certain reinforcers in Star Wars lore, so why would they be the same power level?

    It does out weigh it. As we agreed the troopers aren’t powerless against either the hero or reinforcement. BUT when a hero comes along against a trooper, 1/2 swings of a lightsaber is all it takes. 3/4 shots or 1 ability is all it takes for a shooter. Now when a hero comes along a reinforcement, they need a new strategy to save their health, can’t just go face first into an overloaded unit and keep just as much health as you would against a trooper, aside from a sentry. And every reinforcement takes more than one/ two swings. If they were on par with the trooper health vehicles and heroes alike would be even more of farming tool with them, easy kills. That’s silly as well. There needs to be “roadblocks” for the heroes, even if that’s “hurting” the trooper.

    It’s more of an opinion of yours that tiered units ruin the gameplay which the same could be said about my opinion that it doesn’t, but it makes more sense for the large scale mode sake that they are stronger and not free. Price is another issue, everything should be more expensive but DICE will never do that.

    A high skill player will dominate a match with the assault and officer class over the rest. That’s a discrepancy. I’ve done and seen some nasty things done with the CR that not many guns can replicate. The assault weapons are just stronger if you hit your shots at any range. Yes people can dominate with all classes, but these 2 have a higher skill ceiling than most. The 3 round burst sniper is also another example of damage in a set amount of time if you can aim.

  • So Troopers can’t go toe to toe with reinforcements consistently but they are “fine” against heroes? I can’t buy that. How many people are on these forums complaining daily about heroes “ruining” their trooper play? Doesn’t make sense. With equal skill you’re saying that the trooper and hero, of equal skill, could split kills but not with reinforcements? That’s silly.

    You're misunderstanding. I never said "fine against heroes" means on par with heroes. The people who aren't fond of the hero presence in mixed modes in actuality are just not fond of tiered units. And I'm not fond of them either clearly. But the difference is that I understand it was a design choice for those modes, hence it makes sense that they're stronger. I'm not sympathetic to hero struggles really and don't care if reinforcements are more of a threat, I just don't like the effect of it on base-4 troops.

    Besides I never specifically said that I wanted the reinforcements weaker, only that I would have liked to see them brought in line with troopers. If that meant stronger troopers than I'm game.

    Star Wars lore shouldn’t always taken as the final verdict, but this game tends to make it a big driven point. They said the battles are “cannon” and if that’s true then these units that were “more important” than the grunts would be backed up. Troopers were no match for certain reinforcers in Star Wars lore, so why would they be the same power level?
    Like I said before I don't think lore should dictate gameplay elements to that level. You're kinda doing this thing where you say it doesn't matter but it does, I think you should just say you feel it does matter to a certain degree and we can agree to disagree here.


    It does out weigh it. As we agreed the troopers aren’t powerless against either the hero or reinforcement. BUT when a hero comes along against a trooper, 1/2 swings of a lightsaber is all it takes. 3/4 shots or 1 ability is all it takes for a shooter. Now when a hero comes along a reinforcement, they need a new strategy to save their health, can’t just go face first into an overloaded unit and keep just as much health as you would against a trooper, aside from a sentry. And every reinforcement takes more than one/ two swings. If they were on par with the trooper health vehicles and heroes alike would be even more of farming tool with them, easy kills. That’s silly as well. There needs to be “roadblocks” for the heroes, even if that’s “hurting” the trooper.

    It’s more of an opinion of yours that tiered units ruin the gameplay which the same could be said about my opinion that it doesn’t, but it makes more sense for the large scale mode sake that they are stronger and not free. Price is another issue, everything should be more expensive but DICE will never do that.

    This isn't the point though, remember I'm talking about the entire aspect of tiered unit gameplay, not just the reinforcements. What you're pitching here is sort of a catch-22 because what you're saying is that tiered unit spam is necessary to hold tiered unit spam at bay. Since we're talking about hypotheticals and how we (I) would have revamped the gameplay from the ground-up then you need to consider that the heroes would be reworked as well.

    A high skill player will dominate a match with the assault and officer class over the rest. That’s a discrepancy. I’ve done and seen some nasty things done with the CR that not many guns can replicate. The assault weapons are just stronger if you hit your shots at any range. Yes people can dominate with all classes, but these 2 have a higher skill ceiling than most. The 3 round burst sniper is also another example of damage in a set amount of time if you can aim.

    Sorry but I think you're completely wrong. You've severely undercut the effectiveness of heavy+specialist, and subsequently things like TL-50/combat shield, CFE+hardened infiltration, etc. In fact if you want to use anecdotal evidence then I can tell you that, while I do find super skilled players doing work with any of the four classes, the most difficult/deadliest players that I've consistently come across in blast are predominantly specialists. I myself mainly play as the specialist and find it to be the best class. The fact that you and I can have such a stark difference of opinion regarding which class reigns supreme is solid evidence in and of itself that the base-4 troops are in fact balanced quite well.
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  • Relmets wrote: »

    So Troopers can’t go toe to toe with reinforcements consistently but they are “fine” against heroes? I can’t buy that. How many people are on these forums complaining daily about heroes “ruining” their trooper play? Doesn’t make sense. With equal skill you’re saying that the trooper and hero, of equal skill, could split kills but not with reinforcements? That’s silly.

    You're misunderstanding. I never said "fine against heroes" means on par with heroes. The people who aren't fond of the hero presence in mixed modes in actuality are just not fond of tiered units. And I'm not fond of them either clearly. But the difference is that I understand it was a design choice for those modes, hence it makes sense that they're stronger. I'm not sympathetic to hero struggles really and don't care if reinforcements are more of a threat, I just don't like the effect of it on base-4 troops.

    Besides I never specifically said that I wanted the reinforcements weaker, only that I would have liked to see them brought in line with troopers. If that meant stronger troopers than I'm game.

    Star Wars lore shouldn’t always taken as the final verdict, but this game tends to make it a big driven point. They said the battles are “cannon” and if that’s true then these units that were “more important” than the grunts would be backed up. Troopers were no match for certain reinforcers in Star Wars lore, so why would they be the same power level?
    Like I said before I don't think lore should dictate gameplay elements to that level. You're kinda doing this thing where you say it doesn't matter but it does, I think you should just say you feel it does matter to a certain degree and we can agree to disagree here.


    It does out weigh it. As we agreed the troopers aren’t powerless against either the hero or reinforcement. BUT when a hero comes along against a trooper, 1/2 swings of a lightsaber is all it takes. 3/4 shots or 1 ability is all it takes for a shooter. Now when a hero comes along a reinforcement, they need a new strategy to save their health, can’t just go face first into an overloaded unit and keep just as much health as you would against a trooper, aside from a sentry. And every reinforcement takes more than one/ two swings. If they were on par with the trooper health vehicles and heroes alike would be even more of farming tool with them, easy kills. That’s silly as well. There needs to be “roadblocks” for the heroes, even if that’s “hurting” the trooper.

    It’s more of an opinion of yours that tiered units ruin the gameplay which the same could be said about my opinion that it doesn’t, but it makes more sense for the large scale mode sake that they are stronger and not free. Price is another issue, everything should be more expensive but DICE will never do that.

    This isn't the point though, remember I'm talking about the entire aspect of tiered unit gameplay, not just the reinforcements. What you're pitching here is sort of a catch-22 because what you're saying is that tiered unit spam is necessary to hold tiered unit spam at bay. Since we're talking about hypotheticals and how we (I) would have revamped the gameplay from the ground-up then you need to consider that the heroes would be reworked as well.

    A high skill player will dominate a match with the assault and officer class over the rest. That’s a discrepancy. I’ve done and seen some nasty things done with the CR that not many guns can replicate. The assault weapons are just stronger if you hit your shots at any range. Yes people can dominate with all classes, but these 2 have a higher skill ceiling than most. The 3 round burst sniper is also another example of damage in a set amount of time if you can aim.

    Sorry but I think you're completely wrong. You've severely undercut the effectiveness of heavy+specialist, and subsequently things like TL-50/combat shield, CFE+hardened infiltration, etc. In fact if you want to use anecdotal evidence then I can tell you that, while I do find super skilled players doing work with any of the four classes, the most difficult/deadliest players that I've consistently come across in blast are predominantly specialists. I myself mainly play as the specialist and find it to be the best class. The fact that you and I can have such a stark difference of opinion regarding which class reigns supreme is solid evidence in and of itself that the base-4 troops are in fact balanced quite well.

    You Misunderstood, when you said troopers are fine against heroes, you can’t say troopers are at a disadvantage against reinforcements, if you are fine with how hero v trooper combat is, I’m just confused why you dislike tired units all together. Troopers have an easier time against tierd units compared to troopers vs heroes, and tiered units have an easier time against heroes compared to troopers. Each serve their purpose. You can’t throw away the useful ness of tiered units JUST because you think it doesn’t flow with your own trooper play. That’s quite a large rationality. Most anti hero people I know and see USE the reinforcements to combat the heroes. They aren’t going to rework the troopers this late into that game, idk why people think they will. So we DEPEND on the reinforcements for support. They’re SUPPOSED to be a threat to heroes and troopers alike, this game is hardly centered around base 4 troopers, it’s silly to think that, surely you understand that. If you make the troopers stronger is a catch 22 as well, you’re gonna have to make vehicles and heroes stronger and no one wants that. Whether we like it or not, this is a tiered unit and hero centered game, it’s quite obvious.

    I personally don’t THINK lore should take a front seat, but as I stated, DICE has made it clear the battles are lore related, and in battles there were units that were stronger, faster, and more combat evolved than the droids clones and troopers. So it makes sense in a game that has lore related battles and heroes that a super battle droid or a commando unit or a death trooper are stronger than a grunt. That part makes sense to me. You can’t conpare this game to COD or BV becuase they aren’t Star Wars, they have no “lore” that their devs follow. It’d be silly to have a commando and a battle droid be the same, what’s the point of it being more advanced? This is one of the instances that I agree the lore makes sense. You keep flip flopping very much, so it’s very hard to see where your point is. You say troopers and reinforcers can’t go toe to toe, but then agree that it’s easy to kill them, but then go back to saying they ruin the base 4 trooper play. Are they fair or not? It’s not subjective at all.

    Not sure why you think this is a pro hero topic. As I said above, if you take away the effective and “tiered” aspect of the reinforcements then yes, you would need to make the heroes weaker or stronger, it’s alittle too late for that. And why would they do that? Because of a handful of players that are die hard troopers and only use the base 4? What about the people that main heroes? Main vehicles? Main these reinforcements? All would be affected by this total change up, that doesn’t sound too fair, it’s like saying you know better than everyone else in the game about how to make a successful shooter. Idk if you do or don’t, but that’s silly to me.

    Making everything weaker in the game isn’t a successful way to “fix” this game. And making troopers stronger will then snowball into making everything else stronger. Again that’s silly. You go back and forth on the ability and skill needed to kill reinforcements so I’m kind of confused on those points, and yes. You need reinforcements to “slow” hero play. If all were the same health and damage as a trooper then heroes would be even BETTER than they are in their game modes, idk how you don’t see that.

    I guess we can agree to disagree then, I’ll read whatever you have to reply with because it’d be disingenuous of me to end the convo here but I’ve said what I’ve needed to say I believe. It seems we’re not seeing each other’s point. Have a baller day
  • I do believe most of this whole discussion was your point of view from the smaller game modes where I’m sure reinforcements are an issue. And my point of view is coming mostly from the larger scale modes. They aren’t the same at all.
  • And if if all classes are balanced quite well wouldn’t the specialist class preforming better than the others show that possibly that class is less balanced? Especially if it’s a reoccurring thing? I guess we would have to see those said users preform with the other classes to see if they preform the same. I can completely understand that the specialist is a “better” class for the smaller game modes, with a wall hack and the bestish gun in the game it wouldn’t surprise me it performs well, I like the assault for bigger gamemodes becuase it has tools for all situations. Troopers reinforcements here’s vehicles. Rarely see the specialist shine brighter on GA or CS, especially CS. Less so GA, I’ve see what the 3 round burst sniper can do

  • You Misunderstood, when you said troopers are fine against heroes, you can’t say troopers are at a disadvantage against reinforcements, if you are fine with how hero v trooper combat is

    No I can definitely say that, because it's more practical to consider ditching reinforcements and having additional classes brought in line with base-4 troopers than it is to do so with heroes. Take a look at 2015front, no tiered reinforcements, and heroes were not really a big issue.
    You Misunderstood, when you said troopers are fine against heroes, you can’t say troopers are at a disadvantage against reinforcements, if you are fine with how hero v trooper combat is, I’m just confused why you dislike tired units all together. Troopers have an easier time against tierd units compared to troopers vs heroes, and tiered units have an easier time against heroes compared to troopers. Each serve their purpose. You can’t throw away the useful ness of tiered units JUST because you think it doesn’t flow with your own trooper play. That’s quite a large rationality. Most anti hero people I know and see USE the reinforcements to combat the heroes. They aren’t going to rework the troopers this late into that game, idk why people think they will. So we DEPEND on the reinforcements for support. They’re SUPPOSED to be a threat to heroes and troopers alike, this game is hardly centered around base 4 troopers, it’s silly to think that, surely you understand that. If you make the troopers stronger is a catch 22 as well, you’re gonna have to make vehicles and heroes stronger and no one wants that. Whether we like it or not, this is a tiered unit and hero centered game, it’s quite obvious.

    As for the rest of this, you won't stop evaluating things in the context of how they would affect the current gameplay, and telling me how it would be too drastic of a change. I already told you that I'm elaborating on how I feel about a ground-up overhaul and realize it's not practical to implement. Not sure what you aren't getting about that.
    I personally don’t THINK lore should take a front seat, but as I stated, DICE has made it clear the battles are lore related, and in battles there were units that were stronger, faster, and more combat evolved than the droids clones and troopers. So it makes sense in a game that has lore related battles and heroes that a super battle droid or a commando unit or a death trooper are stronger than a grunt. That part makes sense to me.

    Already been discussed, those units could have been niche classes that excelled in specific aspects and had drawbacks in others, further fleshing out the class-based gameplay. Aerials--> maneuverability/unique map navigation, enforcers--> defensive/tanky, infiltrators--> mobility/stealth, etc., just to throw out some ideas. In this game's case power levels are a substitute for that. Those units have some of those aspects, but at virtually no cost. They're just stronger, flat out.

    You keep flip flopping very much, so it’s very hard to see where your point is. You say troopers and reinforcers can’t go toe to toe, but then agree that it’s easy to kill them, but then go back to saying they ruin the base 4 trooper play. Are they fair or not? It’s not subjective at all.

    Where am I flip flopping? Where did I say it's easy to kill them?
    Not sure why you think this is a pro hero topic. As I said above, if you take away the effective and “tiered” aspect of the reinforcements then yes, you would need to make the heroes weaker or stronger, it’s alittle too late for that. And why would they do that? Because of a handful of players that are die hard troopers and only use the base 4? What about the people that main heroes? Main vehicles? Main these reinforcements? All would be affected by this total change up, that doesn’t sound too fair, it’s like saying you know better than everyone else in the game about how to make a successful shooter. Idk if you do or don’t, but that’s silly to me.
    Making everything weaker in the game isn’t a successful way to “fix” this game. And making troopers stronger will then snowball into making everything else stronger. Again that’s silly. You go back and forth on the ability and skill needed to kill reinforcements so I’m kind of confused on those points, and yes. You need reinforcements to “slow” hero play. If all were the same health and damage as a trooper then heroes would be even BETTER than they are in their game modes, idk how you don’t see that.

    This is irrelevant because you're only responding based on how it would affect the current tiered unit meta. We've already addressed this, we're talking about what would have been a better design from the get go
    I do believe most of this whole discussion was your point of view from the smaller game modes where I’m sure reinforcements are an issue. And my point of view is coming mostly from the larger scale modes. They aren’t the same at all.

    Yeah I don't doubt it's less of an issue in large modes but principally it's the same thing, troopers are the bottom of the barrel in this tiered unit gameplay design. I think more classes that are balanced around the base-4 would make for better gameplay than tiered reinforcements. You're free to disagree.
    And if if all classes are balanced quite well wouldn’t the specialist class preforming better than the others show that possibly that class is less balanced? Especially if it’s a reoccurring thing?

    Not what I was saying, the point I was making is that if I feel like the specialist is more effective, and conversely more irritating to deal with when playing against, and you feel that way about another class, and he or she feels that way about a third class, etc, then it's indicative of balance, relatively speaking. Compare that to the hero roster, where there's a general consensus that a handful of blaster heroes, particularly on the LS, are regarded as being "free kills." See the difference?

    I can completely understand that the specialist is a “better” class for the smaller game modes, with a wall hack and the bestish gun in the game it wouldn’t surprise me it performs well, I like the assault for bigger gamemodes becuase it has tools for all situations. Troopers reinforcements here’s vehicles. Rarely see the specialist shine brighter on GA or CS, especially CS. Less so GA, I’ve see what the 3 round burst sniper can do

    Yeah but this isn't an imbalance of any kind, we're gauging the effectiveness of the base-4 classes relative to each other, not how they perform mode-to-mode. Every class has a solid build combination of 'blaster+mods+cards' that is effective at dispatching enemy troops.


    [+3748 posts]
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