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Are episodes 7-9 killing Star Wars? (Spoilers, seriously?)

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Sath
363 posts Member
Man, i was hoping to get my hands on a very cool "new age" Star Wars MMO sometime in the foreseeable future.
I know i know, not until SWTOR is dead, but one can hope, right?
But what is left of our beloved franchise? In SWG we had those great mentors for the different classes like Luke, Han, Leia, Obi-Wan (force ghost), Chewie, Admiral Ackbar, the Emperor, Vader, Boba and even Jabba. Except for Chewie they are all f.. dead. Leia is probably the next one to be taken out for obvious reasons. Tallie Lintra introduced and eradicated, pfft. Captain Phasma also died (may return). That's Kylo, Rey and Chewie left, maybe Poe Dameron as a pilot trainer but that's basically it. Can these characters keep the potential hype up for future Star Wars movies and games? Maybe i am getting too old for this kind of renaissance. Since George Lucas has abandoned his "baby", it is now the stepchild of Disney and we know those kids often fail.
Anyway, may the force be with us and Disney.

Replies

  • It ends with episode 6 for me (moviewise).
  • Sath wrote: »
    Maybe i am getting too old for this kind of renaissance. Since George Lucas has abandoned his "baby", it is now the stepchild of Disney and we know those kids often fail.

    Perhaps you are getting too old. I remember how people screamed that the prequels "ruined" Star Wars, particularly by destroying the legacy of Vader by making him a petulant, whiny little brat. I didn't agree with some (many) of the choices Lucas made but I never thought he ruined anything.

    Star Wars is a generational series of films aimed primarily at children. What you loved as a kid, the generation ahead of you probably reviled and ridiculed for destroying their precious childhood nostalgia.

    As for Disney, how do they "often fail"? They're absolutely killing it in the MCU. I'm not a big Disney fan and lamented the day they bought Lucasfilm (honestly, I wanted six movies to be the legacy of the series) but I have to admit that Disney does a lot more right than they do wrong.
  • bfloo
    17691 posts Member
    Bad character development is hurting the franchise.

    It is more a hollywood problem than a Disney problem.

    The way Rian ended TLJ, he forgot we needed a reason to care about Ep 9. The whole reylo thing isn't going to keep me interested.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • rocketpig wrote: »
    Sath wrote: »
    Maybe i am getting too old for this kind of renaissance. Since George Lucas has abandoned his "baby", it is now the stepchild of Disney and we know those kids often fail.

    Perhaps you are getting too old. I remember how people screamed that the prequels "ruined" Star Wars, particularly by destroying the legacy of Vader by making him a petulant, whiny little brat. I didn't agree with some (many) of the choices Lucas made but I never thought he ruined anything.

    Star Wars is a generational series of films aimed primarily at children. What you loved as a kid, the generation ahead of you probably reviled and ridiculed for destroying their precious childhood nostalgia.

    As for Disney, how do they "often fail"? They're absolutely killing it in the MCU. I'm not a big Disney fan and lamented the day they bought Lucasfilm (honestly, I wanted six movies to be the legacy of the series) but I have to admit that Disney does a lot more right than they do wrong.

    Because the majority of those movies are garbo. GOTG is one of the few saving graces.
    Iron Man 2 and 3? Ew
    Captain....wait...
    You like what Disney is doing?


    ...k. Um, good for you. I hate the ST (and Rebels tries to compete with TCW but fails lol) due to horrendous writing and real life political nonsense that shouldn't taint this stuff.

    So, OP, I agree with you in that I don't like the ST (although I can bear with TFA, TLJ is just nasty). If you like it, well good for you. I'm not going to tell you otherwise. Just for me, I don't know anymore.
    We need a Tier System for the Heroes. It would justify the "op-ness" of Vader over Han and Chewbacca. It would cost much more to unlock Vader, and would require you to save a lot more than for other heroes and vehicles, but it would be rewarding in the end...

    "It would essentially ruin the eras and turn them into nothing much more than the same thing and same experience but with a different skin. Which is contrary to the point in having eras in the first place." - ZmanGames
  • Dash
    11748 posts Member
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.
    Origin ID: "NWG_Dash"

    Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyUQ3FFqM-TQd-3xtZmHOGQ?view_as=subscriber
    Link to all my Guides here in Tips & Tricks: https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/113241/custom-class-hero-loadouts-builds-revisited-pt-2-6-14-2018#latest

    "When you ask for trouble, you should not be surprised when it finds you". - Plo Koon

    Licensed REALTOR®
    rjy4wg9w86wa.gif





  • I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.
    Well said.
  • bfloo
    17691 posts Member
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.

    The problem is the story has gone no where.

    All that was accomplished in tlj was bringing the entire thing back to where rebelz started off.
    The Knights of Gareth are Eternal

    Pirate of the Knights of Gareth

    h846398gb27k.png


  • Dash
    11748 posts Member
    bfloo wrote: »
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.

    The problem is the story has gone no where.

    All that was accomplished in tlj was bringing the entire thing back to where rebelz started off.

    Maybe that’s the point.

    “The cycle never ends and heroes will always be needed, anyone can be a hero, anyone can be a villain, Balance”.
    Origin ID: "NWG_Dash"

    Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyUQ3FFqM-TQd-3xtZmHOGQ?view_as=subscriber
    Link to all my Guides here in Tips & Tricks: https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/discussion/113241/custom-class-hero-loadouts-builds-revisited-pt-2-6-14-2018#latest

    "When you ask for trouble, you should not be surprised when it finds you". - Plo Koon

    Licensed REALTOR®
    rjy4wg9w86wa.gif





  • bfloo wrote: »
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.

    The problem is the story has gone no where.

    All that was accomplished in tlj was bringing the entire thing back to where rebelz started off.

    1. You're judging an incomplete product.
    2. Showing the cyclical nature of good vs evil is a story unto itself.
  • I think the prequels were enough for me to realise that SW is the first 3 movies and a lot of the EU. The rest are just meh, with some being worse than meh.

    I still have my best memories from the movies 77,80,83, The heir to the empire 1992, KOTOR 1 2003 and kotor 2 2004 finishing with Star Wars Galaxies 2005.

    I hate the prequels and I hate TLJ.

    SW will never die, but it is in danger of becoming meh unless they get someone with a plan and vision.



  • rocketpig wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.

    The problem is the story has gone no where.

    All that was accomplished in tlj was bringing the entire thing back to where rebelz started off.

    1. You're judging an incomplete product.

    Not really sure that's accurate. From my two viewings of The Last Jedi, it seems to me that there was no overall plan for the sequel trilogy going into it. They told JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan to write a Star Wars movie that would spawn two sequels, and then Rian Johnson ignored or eliminated over half of what they set up while adding nothing to set up the final installment.
    giphy.gif
  • I hope something changes in Episode 9 in terms of war because I’m tired of underdog stories.
  • Talyn856 wrote: »
    rocketpig wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.

    The problem is the story has gone no where.

    All that was accomplished in tlj was bringing the entire thing back to where rebelz started off.

    1. You're judging an incomplete product.

    Not really sure that's accurate. From my two viewings of The Last Jedi, it seems to me that there was no overall plan for the sequel trilogy going into it. They told JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan to write a Star Wars movie that would spawn two sequels, and then Rian Johnson ignored or eliminated over half of what they set up while adding nothing to set up the final installment.

    Dunno. Abrams was EP on The Last Jedi and is directing Episode IX. More than anyone else, he'll probably go down as the person most responsible for the sequel trilogy, for good or bad.

    And if there was no plan in place, don't you think he would have raised some objections before TLJ's script got a green light? Abrams didn't only not show hesitation over the script, he raved about it when he read it, saying he wish he could direct the movie himself.
  • kespich
    393 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    ep7 was fine,
    1. JJ abrams really tried to please the old and the new fans at the same time and was somewhat successful.
    2. he kept the politics away from the franchise, or used it subtly like lucas.
    3. he cared and built upon the star wars mythos
    4. it is a soft reboot of the ANH, but at least it was good


    ep8
    1. disowned the old fans. because they are hard to please, and costly. they went for the easy money.
    2. riddled with their political agenda, and they planted their ideas at the expense of the integrity of the story.
    3. eradicated the star wars mythos, and chest-tumped over it by "let the past die". which makes no sense considering what makes Star Wars profitable is the past.
    4. is a soft reboot of ESB & ROTJ and it's completely bad


    TLDR: yes
  • Talyn856 wrote: »
    rocketpig wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.

    The problem is the story has gone no where.

    All that was accomplished in tlj was bringing the entire thing back to where rebelz started off.

    1. You're judging an incomplete product.

    Not really sure that's accurate. From my two viewings of The Last Jedi, it seems to me that there was no overall plan for the sequel trilogy going into it. They told JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan to write a Star Wars movie that would spawn two sequels, and then Rian Johnson ignored or eliminated over half of what they set up while adding nothing to set up the final installment.

    Johnson also said he wrote TLJ before TFA was released. How can you make a trilogy when you ignore most of the first and wrap most things up (and ignore or kill off plots in the first so no need to carry them through) in the second?

    Third movie will have the first Scottish, one armed transgender in and will have lots of stuff re global warming and famine. It will tick the Kathleen and Rian boxes they need to say aren’t we clever.

    JJ has to take some blame as apparently he was okay with this movie.

    Rudderless.
  • rocketpig
    624 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    Talyn856 wrote: »
    rocketpig wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.

    The problem is the story has gone no where.

    All that was accomplished in tlj was bringing the entire thing back to where rebelz started off.

    1. You're judging an incomplete product.

    Not really sure that's accurate. From my two viewings of The Last Jedi, it seems to me that there was no overall plan for the sequel trilogy going into it. They told JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan to write a Star Wars movie that would spawn two sequels, and then Rian Johnson ignored or eliminated over half of what they set up while adding nothing to set up the final installment.

    Johnson also said he wrote TLJ before TFA was released.

    Released, not written. TFA's script was final - or close to it - long before Johnson was hired to direct Episode VIII. Johnson was hired to direct Ep VIII when TFA was in principal production (ie. they were shooting scenes, which means the script was locked down ages before that point).

  • Johnson also said he wrote TLJ before TFA was released.

    Released, not written. TFA's script was final - barring last minute edits and reshoots - long before Johnson was hired to direct Episode VIII. Johnson was hired to direct Ep VIII when TFA was in principal production (ie. they were shooting scenes, which means the script was locked down ages before that point).
  • Talyn856
    756 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    rocketpig wrote: »
    Talyn856 wrote: »
    rocketpig wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.

    The problem is the story has gone no where.

    All that was accomplished in tlj was bringing the entire thing back to where rebelz started off.

    1. You're judging an incomplete product.

    Not really sure that's accurate. From my two viewings of The Last Jedi, it seems to me that there was no overall plan for the sequel trilogy going into it. They told JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan to write a Star Wars movie that would spawn two sequels, and then Rian Johnson ignored or eliminated over half of what they set up while adding nothing to set up the final installment.

    Dunno. Abrams was EP on The Last Jedi and is directing Episode IX. More than anyone else, he'll probably go down as the person most responsible for the sequel trilogy, for good or bad.

    And if there was no plan in place, don't you think he would have raised some objections before TLJ's script got a green light? Abrams didn't only not show hesitation over the script, he raved about it when he read it, saying he wish he could direct the movie himself.

    Abrams was EP, and if you know anything about Hollywood you know that can either mean a lot or absolutely nothing. EP credits are handed out like candy for certain projects, and even if he was heavily involved in the project he had very little creative influence, because EPs don't get that beyond ensuring the production adheres to the agreed to artistic standard between the director and production company - they're on the money side of it, not creative. As for his statement of his opinion on TLJ's script, that is actually part of his job as a producer of any kind: to market the film and hype it like crazy.
    kespich wrote: »
    ep7 was fine,
    1. JJ abrams really tried to please the old and the new fans at the same time and was somewhat successful.
    2. he kept the politics away from the franchise, or used it subtly like lucas.
    3. he cared and built upon the star wars mythos
    4. it is a soft reboot of the ANH, but at least it was good


    ep8
    1. disowned the old fans. because they are hard to please, and costly. they went for the easy money.
    2. riddled with their political agenda, and they planted their ideas at the expense of the integrity of the story.
    3. eradicated the star wars mythos, and chest-tumped over it by "let the past die". which makes no sense considering what makes Star Wars profitable is the past.
    4. is a soft reboot of ESB & ROTJ and it's completely bad


    TLDR: yes

    Agree completely. The sequel trilogy was fine and on course until a month ago.
    giphy.gif
  • OOM19
    2833 posts Member
    Talyn856 wrote: »
    rocketpig wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.

    The problem is the story has gone no where.

    All that was accomplished in tlj was bringing the entire thing back to where rebelz started off.

    1. You're judging an incomplete product.

    Not really sure that's accurate. From my two viewings of The Last Jedi, it seems to me that there was no overall plan for the sequel trilogy going into it. They told JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan to write a Star Wars movie that would spawn two sequels, and then Rian Johnson ignored or eliminated over half of what they set up while adding nothing to set up the final installment.

    Except for the fact the Resistance is now the Rebel Alliance and the First Order the Empire again!

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

    Aren't you excited?!!

    And Hux has a beard because
  • Talyn856 wrote: »
    rocketpig wrote: »
    Talyn856 wrote: »
    rocketpig wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.

    The problem is the story has gone no where.

    All that was accomplished in tlj was bringing the entire thing back to where rebelz started off.

    1. You're judging an incomplete product.

    Not really sure that's accurate. From my two viewings of The Last Jedi, it seems to me that there was no overall plan for the sequel trilogy going into it. They told JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan to write a Star Wars movie that would spawn two sequels, and then Rian Johnson ignored or eliminated over half of what they set up while adding nothing to set up the final installment.

    Dunno. Abrams was EP on The Last Jedi and is directing Episode IX. More than anyone else, he'll probably go down as the person most responsible for the sequel trilogy, for good or bad.

    And if there was no plan in place, don't you think he would have raised some objections before TLJ's script got a green light? Abrams didn't only not show hesitation over the script, he raved about it when he read it, saying he wish he could direct the movie himself.

    Abrams was EP, and if you know anything about Hollywood you know that can either mean a lot or absolutely nothing. EP credits are handed out like candy for certain projects, and even if he was heavily involved in the production he had very little creative influence, because EPs don't get that. As for his statement of his opinion on TLJ's script, that is actually part of his job as a producer of any kind: to market the film and hype it like crazy.

    It's definitely hard to get a read on what an EP's role is in any given movie but based on the fact Abrams was hired back on to bookend the trilogy as director/writer, it's more than likely he had a significant role through the entire process.
  • rocketpig wrote: »
    Talyn856 wrote: »
    rocketpig wrote: »
    Talyn856 wrote: »
    rocketpig wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.

    The problem is the story has gone no where.

    All that was accomplished in tlj was bringing the entire thing back to where rebelz started off.

    1. You're judging an incomplete product.

    Not really sure that's accurate. From my two viewings of The Last Jedi, it seems to me that there was no overall plan for the sequel trilogy going into it. They told JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan to write a Star Wars movie that would spawn two sequels, and then Rian Johnson ignored or eliminated over half of what they set up while adding nothing to set up the final installment.

    Dunno. Abrams was EP on The Last Jedi and is directing Episode IX. More than anyone else, he'll probably go down as the person most responsible for the sequel trilogy, for good or bad.

    And if there was no plan in place, don't you think he would have raised some objections before TLJ's script got a green light? Abrams didn't only not show hesitation over the script, he raved about it when he read it, saying he wish he could direct the movie himself.

    Abrams was EP, and if you know anything about Hollywood you know that can either mean a lot or absolutely nothing. EP credits are handed out like candy for certain projects, and even if he was heavily involved in the production he had very little creative influence, because EPs don't get that. As for his statement of his opinion on TLJ's script, that is actually part of his job as a producer of any kind: to market the film and hype it like crazy.

    It's definitely hard to get a read on what an EP's role is in any given movie but based on the fact Abrams was hired back on to bookend the trilogy as director/writer, it's more than likely he had a significant role through the entire process.

    Or they saw what was coming and knew they needed someone to put them back on track and wrap up in a way that wouldn't **** off everyone who made Star Wars what it is: us. It was trendy to hate on TFA, but it did everything it intended to do, as @kespich wrote a few posts up, it set up future sequels, and was a good movie in the process. You never can tell what a production company's motivations are for doing certain things, but I think the audience scores for The Last Jedi scare them exactly as much as they should and, having anticipated this, they went back to Abrams for the final after he'd already proved himself by making a film that, while a bit shallow, the vast majority of the fans enjoyed. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Kasdan join the project in the coming days either.
    giphy.gif
  • Kaira
    166 posts Member
    I thoroughly enjoyed the movies but I also go in with an open mind and no judgement so I’m still enjoying the franchise.
  • Talyn856 wrote: »
    rocketpig wrote: »
    Talyn856 wrote: »
    rocketpig wrote: »
    Talyn856 wrote: »
    rocketpig wrote: »
    bfloo wrote: »
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.

    The problem is the story has gone no where.

    All that was accomplished in tlj was bringing the entire thing back to where rebelz started off.

    1. You're judging an incomplete product.

    Not really sure that's accurate. From my two viewings of The Last Jedi, it seems to me that there was no overall plan for the sequel trilogy going into it. They told JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan to write a Star Wars movie that would spawn two sequels, and then Rian Johnson ignored or eliminated over half of what they set up while adding nothing to set up the final installment.

    Dunno. Abrams was EP on The Last Jedi and is directing Episode IX. More than anyone else, he'll probably go down as the person most responsible for the sequel trilogy, for good or bad.

    And if there was no plan in place, don't you think he would have raised some objections before TLJ's script got a green light? Abrams didn't only not show hesitation over the script, he raved about it when he read it, saying he wish he could direct the movie himself.

    Abrams was EP, and if you know anything about Hollywood you know that can either mean a lot or absolutely nothing. EP credits are handed out like candy for certain projects, and even if he was heavily involved in the production he had very little creative influence, because EPs don't get that. As for his statement of his opinion on TLJ's script, that is actually part of his job as a producer of any kind: to market the film and hype it like crazy.

    It's definitely hard to get a read on what an EP's role is in any given movie but based on the fact Abrams was hired back on to bookend the trilogy as director/writer, it's more than likely he had a significant role through the entire process.

    Or they saw what was coming and knew they needed someone to put them back on track and wrap up in a way that wouldn't **** off everyone who made Star Wars what it is: us. It was trendy to hate on TFA, but it did everything it intended to do, as @kespich wrote a few posts up, it set up future sequels, and was a good movie in the process. You never can tell what a production company's motivations are for doing certain things, but I think the audience scores for The Last Jedi scare them exactly as much as they should and, having anticipated this, they went back to Abrams for the final after he'd already proved himself by making a film that, while a bit shallow, the vast majority of the fans enjoyed. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Kasdan join the project in the coming days either.

    I agree. I don't like what they're doing. But hey, if someone likes it, good for them. I'm not going to try and persuade someone it is bad. However, if someone tells me that it's good like it's a fact and my opinion is wrong, then I have a problem with you.
    We need a Tier System for the Heroes. It would justify the "op-ness" of Vader over Han and Chewbacca. It would cost much more to unlock Vader, and would require you to save a lot more than for other heroes and vehicles, but it would be rewarding in the end...

    "It would essentially ruin the eras and turn them into nothing much more than the same thing and same experience but with a different skin. Which is contrary to the point in having eras in the first place." - ZmanGames
  • Imho TLJ isn't bad because it ignored what was great about the Originals.

    TLJ is seriously bad because it ignored what was great about TFA.

    Way to ruin a Trilogy, to even disregard the story set up one movie earlier.

    Rey, Fin, Tally, Poe?

    I cannot relate to any of them with this weak plot.

    Only good chars were Kylo and Phasma.
    Snoke was ruined in TLJ.
  • Hanzo
    1677 posts Member
    Kaira wrote: »
    I thoroughly enjoyed the movies but I also go in with an open mind and no judgement so I’m still enjoying the franchise.

    So do the vast majority of fans.
  • OOM19
    2833 posts Member
    Hanzo wrote: »
    Kaira wrote: »
    I thoroughly enjoyed the movies but I also go in with an open mind and no judgement so I’m still enjoying the franchise.

    So do the vast majority of fans.

    Quick question

    Why do we bring up numbers like "Small, Select VAST Majority of Fans"

    Like we actually have stats and actually know the vast majority of fans?

    Can't we just stay with what we actually know and stop resorting to confirmation bias?
  • ZeroFiveFour
    407 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    Rotten Tomatoes audience reviewers are split at best.

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/#audience_reviews

    TLJ sits with a 50 percent audience approval rating currently, (it's been on a downward trajectory since its release, where it started at 56 percent approval). Seems the more people see it, the lower the approval rating sinks. The audience reviews are either Scathing, or Glowing. The base has been split. The tomatometer, ("professional" reviews), have gone from 94 to 90 since the movies release as well. It's trending downward.

    This is a 40 percent disparity between, "professional" reviews and "audience" reviews. The Last Jedi is less liked by audience and has more disparity between audience and pro reviews by far than Episode one, which sits at 55 pro approval, and 59 audience approval. That is a 4 percent disparity.

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_i_the_phantom_menace/

    I sit with the scathing reviewers. The movie has ruined my excitement for any further SW movies. To the point that I will, for the first time, not purchase the movie for home viewing or purchase any toys related to the movie for my kids. (I own all previous SW movies). To each his own of course.

    TLDR: Yes

    054
  • Hanzo
    1677 posts Member
    OOM19 wrote: »
    Hanzo wrote: »
    Kaira wrote: »
    I thoroughly enjoyed the movies but I also go in with an open mind and no judgement so I’m still enjoying the franchise.

    So do the vast majority of fans.

    Quick question

    Why do we bring up numbers like "Small, Select VAST Majority of Fans"

    Like we actually have stats and actually know the vast majority of fans?

    Can't we just stay with what we actually know and stop resorting to confirmation bias?

    We have numbers. If the general public didn't like TFA, Rouge One and in general the direction Disney is heading with the Star Wars franchise, TLJ wouldn't have done over a billion already. And if you look at various ratings this is further confirmed. Yes, there is a gap between critics and audience, but remember when fanatical trolls want to, they can tank scores (look at this game for instance).
  • rocketpig
    624 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    Rotten Tomatoes audience reviewers are split at best.

    TLJ sits with a 50 percent audience approval rating currently, (it's been on a downward trajectory since its release, where it started at 56 percent approval). Seems the more people see it, the lower the approval rating sinks. The audience reviews are either Scathing, or Glowing. The base has been split. The tomatometer, ("professional" reviews), have gone from 94 to 90 since the movies release as well. It's trending downward.

    I sit with the scathing reviewers. The movie has ruined my excitement for any further SW movies. To the point that I will, for the first time, not purchase the movie for home viewing or purchase any toys related to the movie for my kids. (I own all previous SW movies). To each his own of course.

    TLDR: Yes

    054
    To be fair, almost every movie trends downward on RT once you get past the excitement of the opening weekend. Moving from 94% to 90% isn’t only expected, it’s on the low side of things. A 4% gap is much smaller than what I’ve seen in past blockbuster films. IIRC, the original Avengers film moved 8-9 points from its opening weekend placement on RT.

  • Hanzo wrote: »
    OOM19 wrote: »
    Hanzo wrote: »
    Kaira wrote: »
    I thoroughly enjoyed the movies but I also go in with an open mind and no judgement so I’m still enjoying the franchise.

    So do the vast majority of fans.

    Quick question

    Why do we bring up numbers like "Small, Select VAST Majority of Fans"

    Like we actually have stats and actually know the vast majority of fans?

    Can't we just stay with what we actually know and stop resorting to confirmation bias?

    We have numbers. If the general public didn't like TFA, Rouge One and in general the direction Disney is heading with the Star Wars franchise, TLJ wouldn't have done over a billion already. And if you look at various ratings this is further confirmed. Yes, there is a gap between critics and audience, but remember when fanatical trolls want to, they can tank scores (look at this game for instance).

    Or almost every category in the Hugo Awards.

    We can't assume internet voters represent a cross-section of the actual public.
  • rocketpig wrote: »
    Rotten Tomatoes audience reviewers are split at best.

    TLJ sits with a 50 percent audience approval rating currently, (it's been on a downward trajectory since its release, where it started at 56 percent approval). Seems the more people see it, the lower the approval rating sinks. The audience reviews are either Scathing, or Glowing. The base has been split. The tomatometer, ("professional" reviews), have gone from 94 to 90 since the movies release as well. It's trending downward.

    I sit with the scathing reviewers. The movie has ruined my excitement for any further SW movies. To the point that I will, for the first time, not purchase the movie for home viewing or purchase any toys related to the movie for my kids. (I own all previous SW movies). To each his own of course.

    TLDR: Yes

    054
    To be fair, almost every movie trends downward on RT once you get past the excitement of the opening weekend. Moving from 94% to 90% isn’t only expected, it’s on the low side of things. A 4% gap is much smaller than what I’ve seen in past blockbuster films.

    Did you notice the ratings of the Audience and the disparity between the Pro reviews?
    There is a 40 percent disparity between audience and "pro" reviews" .

    Also, the movie has trended downward with audiences from 56 to 50 since release as well. I suspect it will hit 49 percent, I could be wrong. But that would indicate a plurality do NOT like the direction of the franchise.

    054

  • I enjoyed all the new films.

    Couldn't really care less what other people think of them to be honest.
  • rocketpig wrote: »
    Rotten Tomatoes audience reviewers are split at best.

    TLJ sits with a 50 percent audience approval rating currently, (it's been on a downward trajectory since its release, where it started at 56 percent approval). Seems the more people see it, the lower the approval rating sinks. The audience reviews are either Scathing, or Glowing. The base has been split. The tomatometer, ("professional" reviews), have gone from 94 to 90 since the movies release as well. It's trending downward.

    I sit with the scathing reviewers. The movie has ruined my excitement for any further SW movies. To the point that I will, for the first time, not purchase the movie for home viewing or purchase any toys related to the movie for my kids. (I own all previous SW movies). To each his own of course.

    TLDR: Yes

    054
    To be fair, almost every movie trends downward on RT once you get past the excitement of the opening weekend. Moving from 94% to 90% isn’t only expected, it’s on the low side of things. A 4% gap is much smaller than what I’ve seen in past blockbuster films.

    Did you notice the ratings of the Audience and the disparity between the Pro reviews?
    There is a 40 percent disparity between audience and "pro" reviews" .

    Also, the movie has trended downward with audiences from 56 to 50 since release as well. I suspect it will hit 49 percent, I could be wrong. But that would indicate a plurality do NOT like the direction of the franchise.

    054

    1. Loud, negative internet voices tend to drown out those who either don't care to review or are positive about something. The internet is notorious for deciding they hate something en masse (thereby declaring it "The Worst Thing Ever"), applying loud, obnoxious groupthink, and dragging something through the muck for no good reason. I'm not saying anyone needs to like The Last Jedi or that they're wrong for disliking it, I'm just saying that using an audience percentage as proof of anything leads you down some bad thought processes and conclusions. Basically, the internet should never be trusted about anything, ever, because we have no control method for the input and whether the numbers are being skewed by a loud, vocal minority who have some unreasonable bone to pick.
    2. The audience/reviewer gap is really interesting to me. Personally, I mostly side with the reviewers but I understand why people are upset, I simply think they're overreacting. If we managed to weather petulant, whiny Anakin as a young Darth Vader, we can get through The Last Jedi.
  • I mean define "killing". It's a movie franchise so it's not an actual living thing. By Sunday audiences will have shelled out over $572M for Disney/Lucasfilm’s Star Wars: The Last Jedi. Already they’ve seen it anywhere from 2-4 times. So again what do you mean by "killing"?

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  • IGF_BobaFett
    14 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.


    I am also of the same opinion, born in 1977, I have unfortunately not seen the first, daddy mom said I was too small, the following yes :)
    After, yes, for me stars wars stopped at episode 6!
    But I will not spit in the soup either!
    Although I totally disagree with a lot of things, and that's up to me, I'm still happy and happy that Disney brings new life to what we all love since we were teenagers or adults.
    Even if the scenario is bad, ect, ect and still ect, as long as I spend 2h20 the head in the stars to make me buzz my ears to blow explosions, blaster and I pass the rest I 'm do not care.
    Stars wars, it's stars wars! no more, no less, especially since it is still an integral part of our lives to all ...
    So in front of the cinema, in front of the movies and all ahead behind our screens to shout like crazy because we got "busted"
    That's it, cordially :smile:
    iDgc2Xw.png
    Origin / Steam :IGF_Boba-fett,Bounty Hunter Specialty To rot the life of cheaters in close collaboration with the support of games ( " I always have room for one more in the calle of cargo ship , no neighborhood ")
  • sah227
    125 posts Member
    Rotten Tomatoes audience reviewers are split at best.

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/#audience_reviews

    TLJ sits with a 50 percent audience approval rating currently, (it's been on a downward trajectory since its release, where it started at 56 percent approval). Seems the more people see it, the lower the approval rating sinks. The audience reviews are either Scathing, or Glowing. The base has been split. The tomatometer, ("professional" reviews), have gone from 94 to 90 since the movies release as well. It's trending downward.

    This is a 40 percent disparity between, "professional" reviews and "audience" reviews. The Last Jedi is less liked by audience and has more disparity between audience and pro reviews by far than Episode one, which sits at 55 pro approval, and 59 audience approval. That is a 4 percent disparity.

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_i_the_phantom_menace/

    I sit with the scathing reviewers. The movie has ruined my excitement for any further SW movies. To the point that I will, for the first time, not purchase the movie for home viewing or purchase any toys related to the movie for my kids. (I own all previous SW movies). To each his own of course.

    TLDR: Yes

    054

    Wow. Just wow. You're going to be a bad father because you think what a lot of people like in a movie ruins everything for you? You take Star Wars away from your own kids, they'll resent you for it, they will never forgive you for it, you're just taking everything too personal. And also, people wouldn't care what haters think. If you look at CinemaScore, audience reactions says "A", ComScore says 89% from general audience. The world differs from your perspective. I think the so called "audience" in Rotten Tomatoes are probably just trolls who try to ruin everything themselves. Think about it, do you really think your family will accept you for taking away what they loved? This is something worth considering.
  • JigglybeanTV
    1093 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    I personally won't be seeing Episode 9 as I have zero interest in the saga after The Last Jedi. I am just shocked a really bad story was given the go ahead - but I guess thats why we had the misleading trailers - to cover up just how bad it was.

    We won't be getting another SW MMO as it will cost too much money and EA now have the licence. They are yet to publish a successful Star Wars game or MMO. Two attempts failed at knocking Warcraft from it's throne.
  • Hanzo
    1677 posts Member
    I personally won't be seeing Episode 9 as I have zero interest in the saga after The Last Jedi. I am just shocked a really bad story was given the go ahead - but I guess thats why we had the misleading trailers - to cover up just how bad it was.

    We won't be getting another SW MMO as it will cost too much money and EA now have the licence. They are yet to publish a successful Star Wars game or MMO. Two attempts failed at knocking Warcraft from it's throne.

    You might not watch it in theater, but you'll watch it. Posturing at its finest.
  • Hanzo wrote: »
    I personally won't be seeing Episode 9 as I have zero interest in the saga after The Last Jedi. I am just shocked a really bad story was given the go ahead - but I guess thats why we had the misleading trailers - to cover up just how bad it was.

    We won't be getting another SW MMO as it will cost too much money and EA now have the licence. They are yet to publish a successful Star Wars game or MMO. Two attempts failed at knocking Warcraft from it's throne.

    You might not watch it in theater, but you'll watch it. Posturing at its finest.

    Ten bucks says they see it in the theatre.

    On opening day.
  • sah227
    125 posts Member
    I personally won't be seeing Episode 9 as I have zero interest in the saga after The Last Jedi. I am just shocked a really bad story was given the go ahead - but I guess thats why we had the misleading trailers - to cover up just how bad it was.

    We won't be getting another SW MMO as it will cost too much money and EA now have the licence. They are yet to publish a successful Star Wars game or MMO. Two attempts failed at knocking Warcraft from it's throne.

    You've always let everything upset you, even if they're good. Well maybe you should find another hobby instead of talking trash. And you'd be seeing episode 9 anyways.
  • 1. Don't like how the new movies have completely undone everything the heroes did in the original trilogy. Back to small rebels vs empire.
    2. Not a fan of all the political crap. Kathleen Kennedys feminism and all the evil rich people 1% also the stupid animal cruelty messages.
    3. It's hard to be invested in Rey. I really really want to like her but there's no character development in her. She's Mary Sue godlike at everything. She didn't even train with Luke and she's still a god. Knows all the force powers without training. Knows how to duel with a saber perfectly and never gets beat.. I don't know it's hard to like her when there is no depth to her character.
    4. Kylo on the other hand I like and I'm starting to think this saga is about him. Anyways I have hope it will finish strong I really hope so.
  • timidobserver
    807 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    I personally won't be seeing Episode 9 as I have zero interest in the saga after The Last Jedi. I am just shocked a really bad story was given the go ahead - but I guess thats why we had the misleading trailers - to cover up just how bad it was.

    We won't be getting another SW MMO as it will cost too much money and EA now have the licence. They are yet to publish a successful Star Wars game or MMO. Two attempts failed at knocking Warcraft from it's throne.

    I'll see it eventually once I can buy it or download it, but I won't be going to the theater to see another one.

    It's kind of sad that they can't seem to release a successful Star Wars game. Knights of the Old Republic is probably one top 100 games ever released. If they can't figure out how to do something unique, the should just release a nearly identical game with better graphics and a new story.
  • also the **** animal cruelty messages.

    I just want to take a moment and bask in the glory of this quote.

    rlly wut ok
  • bfloo wrote: »
    I was born in 85, I’m a Star Wars Fan. With that said, even if I disagree with direction and the story telling, I am happy the story continues. And I accept where the story goes. Times change so do our heroes/legends. That’s when new ones are born.

    The problem is the story has gone no where.

    All that was accomplished in tlj was bringing the entire thing back to where rebelz started off.

    Maybe that’s the point.

    “The cycle never ends and heroes will always be needed, anyone can be a hero, anyone can be a villain, Balance”.

    This is what I got out of TLJ.
    The other point is you do not have to be a Jedi to utilize the force, good or bad. It is there for all, but alot of people don't recognize it. The Jedi were a religious order which tried to structure instruction on how to tap into the force. But it is not there just for the Jedi, or the Sith for that matter...
  • Hanzo wrote: »
    OOM19 wrote: »
    Hanzo wrote: »
    Kaira wrote: »
    I thoroughly enjoyed the movies but I also go in with an open mind and no judgement so I’m still enjoying the franchise.

    So do the vast majority of fans.

    Quick question

    Why do we bring up numbers like "Small, Select VAST Majority of Fans"

    Like we actually have stats and actually know the vast majority of fans?

    Can't we just stay with what we actually know and stop resorting to confirmation bias?

    We have numbers. If the general public didn't like TFA, Rouge One and in general the direction Disney is heading with the Star Wars franchise, TLJ wouldn't have done over a billion already. And if you look at various ratings this is further confirmed. Yes, there is a gap between critics and audience, but remember when fanatical trolls want to, they can tank scores (look at this game for instance).

    Everyone, here's the thing with "fans" too. You can either be one of those hyper hard core fans that collects everything and knows ever character and memorized all of their lines and is basically OBSESSED with Star Wars to the point of it actually scaring people; or you can be that guy who saw ANH briefly on TV.

    Also, box office views isn't a good way to say if people like the movie or not. In fact, it's a pretty bad way of deriving that. Look at old YouTube. I don't remember much on how they used to make money off vids, but I do remember it was based on solely views alone. If you have a click-baiting title, then you'll probably get ALOT of view. YouTube then I believe changed it to how long people watched the video instead, since it showed whether people stayed interested enough to continue watching it through the duration. The same can be applied here, with basing it off how many people went to see it being flawed. Heck, there's always going to be room for margin of error, but this makes no sense.

    And it's a Star Wars film; you'd think people don't want to go see it? The title is enough to act as the metaphorical click bait. Can the movie be horrible and an absolute abomination? Yes, but according to your numbers, it would've been a great movie, since many saw it.

    Also, back to my first point, there are far more casual fans than their are the hardcore fans. We could probably do a poll to see the difference; at movie theaters, he ave people answer 3 questions and if they get them all right, a free small popcorn. These questions have to be something hard for casual fans but easier for more dedicated ones, so here's some examples
    1) how many forms of lightsaber combat are there (actually, this one may be too hard for casuals)
    2) who was Qui Gon Jinn's master?
    3) In chronological order, name Darth Sidious' apprentices (pretty easy)
    4) what were the names of Luke's guardians?
    5) what race was Maul?
    6) how does a lightsaber work?
    You get the idea. Stuff that will separate the casuals from more dedicated fans. If this was incorporated, along with a review that matches their questions, this could definitely help to show the demographics on who liked/disliked the film.

    I, for one, have mostly seen PC/SJW people love the film. Them and more casual fans that don't know too much about the lore beyond the films (and some don't even know too much about what happened in the films lol). The more hard core people didn't like the movie. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't hard core fans who liked the movie, just as I'm not saying there aren't casuals who didn't like it. What I am saying, in my experience, is that people who generally like Star Wars more than the average fan and knock more than the average fan dislike the film. Perhaps that's just the group of people I encounter on a daily basis, but that's my input.
    We need a Tier System for the Heroes. It would justify the "op-ness" of Vader over Han and Chewbacca. It would cost much more to unlock Vader, and would require you to save a lot more than for other heroes and vehicles, but it would be rewarding in the end...

    "It would essentially ruin the eras and turn them into nothing much more than the same thing and same experience but with a different skin. Which is contrary to the point in having eras in the first place." - ZmanGames
  • sah227
    125 posts Member
    rocketpig wrote: »
    rocketpig wrote: »
    Rotten Tomatoes audience reviewers are split at best.

    TLJ sits with a 50 percent audience approval rating currently, (it's been on a downward trajectory since its release, where it started at 56 percent approval). Seems the more people see it, the lower the approval rating sinks. The audience reviews are either Scathing, or Glowing. The base has been split. The tomatometer, ("professional" reviews), have gone from 94 to 90 since the movies release as well. It's trending downward.

    I sit with the scathing reviewers. The movie has ruined my excitement for any further SW movies. To the point that I will, for the first time, not purchase the movie for home viewing or purchase any toys related to the movie for my kids. (I own all previous SW movies). To each his own of course.

    TLDR: Yes

    054
    To be fair, almost every movie trends downward on RT once you get past the excitement of the opening weekend. Moving from 94% to 90% isn’t only expected, it’s on the low side of things. A 4% gap is much smaller than what I’ve seen in past blockbuster films.

    Did you notice the ratings of the Audience and the disparity between the Pro reviews?
    There is a 40 percent disparity between audience and "pro" reviews" .

    Also, the movie has trended downward with audiences from 56 to 50 since release as well. I suspect it will hit 49 percent, I could be wrong. But that would indicate a plurality do NOT like the direction of the franchise.

    054

    1. Loud, negative internet voices tend to drown out those who either don't care to review or are positive about something. The internet is notorious for deciding they hate something en masse (thereby declaring it "The Worst Thing Ever"), applying loud, obnoxious groupthink, and dragging something through the muck for no good reason. I'm not saying anyone needs to like The Last Jedi or that they're wrong for disliking it, I'm just saying that using an audience percentage as proof of anything leads you down some bad thought processes and conclusions. Basically, the internet should never be trusted about anything, ever, because we have no control method for the input and whether the numbers are being skewed by a loud, vocal minority who have some unreasonable bone to pick.
    2. The audience/reviewer gap is really interesting to me. Personally, I mostly side with the reviewers but I understand why people are upset, I simply think they're overreacting. If we managed to weather petulant, whiny Anakin as a young Darth Vader, we can get through The Last Jedi.

    Dude, I think we're on a same page. I like the movie. If there's one lesson for me to learn, it's that one should never trust the social media, trust your own mind instead. This "bandwagon hate train" failed to realize that not everything had to be based on their own opinion.
  • The Last Jedi was awesome. Star Wars to me has been about the spiritual journey of the characters and their place in a larger-than-themselves struggle. Luke's story was satisfying. Kylo is an awesome villain. Rey is arguably less developed but I Iike her character and Daisy's charisma helps her. As for side characters, I enjoy the arcs of Poe and Finn.

    Yeah it seems like it's just Rebels v Empire again, but at least they are giving the Resistance more of an identity: by making them anti-oppression instead of just anti-First Order.

    There's like two climaxes of the movie. It seems wonky, but both are very satisfying and pack punches for me.

    Great movie. Can't wait to see what happens.
  • i always see a lot of ppl saying "they ruin it", "they killed the franchise" etc... no htey didn't.

    They just gave the story a different outcome as some ppl expected or wanted.
    most ppl can not even explain what they wanted, they just want it different then it is right now.

    i want star wars. the music, the great characters, the space fights, the struggle between good an evil.
    all there.
    i went to the theater and enjoyed TLJ a lot. its fun and entertaining.

    i can no understand why ppl always want everything their own way and not enjoying what they got.
  • rocketpig
    624 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    I, for one, have mostly seen PC/SJW people love the film. Them and more casual fans that don't know too much about the lore beyond the films (and some don't even know too much about what happened in the films lol). The more hard core people didn't like the movie. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't hard core fans who liked the movie, just as I'm not saying there aren't casuals who didn't like it. What I am saying, in my experience, is that people who generally like Star Wars more than the average fan and knock more than the average fan dislike the film. Perhaps that's just the group of people I encounter on a daily basis, but that's my input.
    See, my experiences are very different. I'm a bit older and spend 15-20 weekends a year at comic book conventions, tabling as an artist (just clarifying that I spend A LOT of time around pretty hardcore geeks).

    The older people I know (we'll just say age 35+) overwhelmingly like The Last Jedi. I'd say out of all the Facebook friends I've seen who have commented on the film and fit that description (which number in the dozens), the reviews have been 90% positive.

    It has nothing to do with PC/SJW (groan... seriously), I think it has to do with the mindset of the viewer. We sat through the prequels, which was a startling realization that Star Wars was no longer aimed at our age brackets. We learned to accept the prequels (to varying degrees, I never hated them in the first place) and now that a third generation has come to the Star Wars universe, I think we're more likely to sit back and allow ourselves to enjoy having a story told to us, no matter how hardcore or casual we might be.

    Because if a generation can grow up to love the prequels as much as some of you do (and good for you!), realize that the generation behind you will grow up to love the sequel trilogy equally as much.
  • NPA79
    26 posts Member
    I think if Disney had kept to the original comic sequel to guide them for this trilogy it would ve been 1000times better.
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